August 12, 2021 Show with Justin Peters on “Exegeting the True Meaning of Commonly Misinterpreted Texts of Scripture”

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 12th day of August, 2021.

I'm so thrilled to have back on the program one of my favorite guests, who's also a very dear friend,

Justin Peters, who is an author, evangelist, conference speaker, and founder of Justin Peters Ministries, and today we are going to be addressing exegeting the true meaning of commonly misinterpreted texts of Scripture.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Justin Peters. Chris, it's a joy to be with you, brother.

It always is. Thank you for this invitation. And I'm so glad you accepted it, and I want to give our listeners right away our email address should they have any interest in submitting their own question to you on exegeting the true meaning of commonly misinterpreted texts of Scripture.

It is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence. And we will broaden the subjects that we will permit you to ask about, since Justin obviously is most well known for his openly exposing and refuting the charlatans and heretics in the

Word of Faith movement. So if you do have a question on that, we would not ignore your question, obviously on an issue as important as that.

But the main theme, as I have already said, will be exegeting the true meaning of commonly interpreted texts of Scripture.

And we look forward to hearing from you and your questions at chrisarnzen at gmail .com. Well, for our listeners, and there may be a few,

I would find it hard to believe that there are any listeners in my audience who are unfamiliar with you, but in the event that there are a few, why don't you let our listeners know about Justin Peters Ministries.

Sure, Chris. My wife, Kathy, and I live in Bozeman, Montana, and God has graciously opened up a ministry to me of full -time evangelism.

I travel, preach, and teach across the United States, internationally. Not a lot of international stuff ever since COVID, but Lord willing, that will pick back up when things hopefully get back to some sense of normalcy.

But yeah, as you said, I'm most known for engaging the Word of Faith movement, the

Apostolic Reformation, the Prosperity Gospel, and exposing that for the theological farce that it is.

But it's not my only interest, and my first commitment is to expository preaching, expositional preaching, which simply means exposing the meaning of the text.

I have interest in other subjects as well. I have a book

I've written on children and conversion, how to tell when it's wise to baptize your child.

I do some work in Roman Catholicism and apologetics in general. I have a podcast entitled

Didache, which is the Greek word for teaching or doctrine. Also the title of the oldest extra -biblical manual of Christian practice in existence.

That is correct. Yep, sure is. So, yeah, kind of an unusual title there for a podcast,

Didache, but hopefully it kind of sticks because it's so unusual. So, yeah, a lot of different irons in the fire, and I really enjoy it.

By God's grace, yeah, I'm privileged to be doing what I'm doing. Well, if anybody wants more information on Justin Peters Ministries, just go to justinpeters .org

justinpeters .org And by the way, although this is not the subject at hand, when you were talking about taking your ministry abroad, it popped right in my head if you were to visit countries where there is a foreign language other than English that is the dominant language of that country, and you are speaking on the issue of tongues.

It just reminded me of when Iron Trip and Zion Radio, before I moved to Pennsylvania, was on WNYG Radio in Babylon, Long Island, New York, and it was taken over by a

Spanish speaking network, Radio Contico Nuevo. And after a couple of weeks of my show being removed from the airways because the entire lineup of programming that used to be

English was replaced by Spanish programs, they got inundated with phone calls protesting

Iron Trip and Zion Radio's absence, and they asked me to come back as their only

English speaking talk show host. But the thing that was interesting to me is that when

I would get into the studio and listen to the program that was on preceding mine, a

Spanish program, by the way, about 99 % of all the programming on that network was not only

Spanish, but Pentecostal or charismatic. And it was interesting to me, it was fascinating to me, how although I just have a cursory understanding of Spanish from my high school days, but could still never understand people speaking

Spanish with the lightning speed with which they normally may speak, I could pick out immediately when the

Spanish host would be speaking in tongues because it was the only part of the program that sounded like a fake language, if you follow what

I'm saying. If you follow what I'm saying. He went from speaking something authentic, and even though I couldn't understand it, when he would break out in tongues, it would sound clearly like gibberish.

Yes. So I just thought that... Yeah, that's... I'm sorry, what? Oh, yeah, no,

I was just going to say that's exactly right, Chris. In fact, as you were describing that very thing,

I've seen various studies done. You know, you can... Language has parameters.

Language, every language spoken on the face of the earth has parameters, it has markers that you can tell it's a real language.

I don't speak a word of Zulu, but if I heard someone speaking Zulu, I wouldn't have any idea what they're saying, but I could tell it's a real language.

Tongues is completely different. When you hear a charismatic speaking in tongues, it's gibberish.

It's nonsense. It doesn't follow any of the parameters for normal human language.

It's obvious that it's gibberish, and you're exactly right. And that's not, by the way, the genuine gift of tongues.

The biblical gift of tongues was speaking in a known human language, just unknown to the one speaking it.

Yes, and you may have people that are more gifted at making their gibberish sound like a real language.

I remember, actually, the comedian Sid Caesar was very good at that. Sid Caesar would be playing a comedic role as a

German, for instance, and he would be speaking gibberish because he didn't know the

German language. But you would never know because he did such a good job at imitating a language just with sounds and so on.

But most of the time, even if somebody, if you were to say that this is a real angelic language, then most of the time, 99 % of the time, even if you were to grant them that that was true, they would be saying and repeating over and over again two or three words.

You know what I'm saying? That's right. Yeah. Well, that is not the topic, as I already introduced to our listeners.

It's exegeting the true meaning of commonly misinterpreted texts of Scripture. Why don't you start right off with the text that you believe is commonly misinterpreted that you'd want to set the record straight over.

I'm almost speaking in tongues right now. I'm a little tongue -tied. Okay. Okay.

Sure, Chris. Well, I sent you a few in the text, of course, but I think since we were just given what we were just talking about, we'll change the order a little bit and we'll go to one of them that I already had outlined here, and that is 1

Corinthians 13, verse 1. And that it all says, if I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love,

I have become as a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And since we were just talking about tongues, this is one of the go -to texts for those who would say that speaking in tongues is a private prayer language.

And it's because Paul references speaking with the tongues of angels, and they say that's what speaking in tongues is.

We don't speak in tongues, we speak in the tongues of angels. And the advantage to doing that, the argument is, is that when we speak in the tongues of angels, then

Satan cannot understand what we're saying. So it's like we're speaking in code.

Ah, you're telling me something that I have never heard, or at least if I heard it, I don't remember hearing it, because I have been visiting

Charismatic and Pentecostal churches even before I was a believer, before I was regenerate, and I don't remember that ever being explained to me.

Yeah, yeah, that's a very common belief among Charismatics. I've got videos in my seminar that deal with this.

Sid Roth, for example, says that, I mean a lot of the prominent Charismatic preachers do, and they'll say that this is when you speak in tongues in your own private prayer closet.

You know, not necessarily at church, but when you're at home, just between you and the Lord, you pray in tongues, and when you do that,

Satan doesn't understand what you're saying, and so it's like you're speaking in code, and you kind of, you can slip one in under old

Lucifer there, because Lucifer apparently does not understand the tongues of angels.

Even though he was one. Exactly, exactly.

That's what Satan is. He's an angel. He's a fallen angel, but he is an angel, and so,

I tell people, if you want to pray in some language that Satan does not understand, then the tongues of angels would be the last language

I would recommend you pray in. That's what he is.

So, it makes absolutely no sense, but that's the go -to text, right there.

And even if Satan could understand what you're saying, what is he going to do when you're communicating, when a regenerate person is communicating with God, is

Satan somehow going to thwart the plan of God when he's answering your prayer? I don't even understand the concern or fear over that, it's absurd.

It is. It is absurd, Chris, but that's yet another problem with most, in fairness, not all, charismatics.

They have an inflated view of what Satan can do. They really give

Satan, in many ways, more power than God himself, and that gets more into the word of faith spectrum of the charismatic position, not necessarily like your

Wayne Grudos or your John Pipers, but that's more of the word of faith along that charismatic spectrum.

So, if Paul is not talking about speaking in some kind of a private prayer language, what is he talking about?

Well, Paul is using hyperbole here. He's exaggerating to make a point, and we know that he's exaggerating to make a point because he goes on to say, if I have the gift of prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge, well,

Paul did not know all mysteries. He did not have all knowledge. In fact, he says in the same chapter that we see in a mirror dimly.

In fact, that's verse 12. So, now we know in part, then we still know in full. So, he didn't have all knowledge, and then he goes on to say, if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains.

Well, Paul had never rearranged the topography of Israel. He never literally moved a mountain.

And then Paul says, but do not have love, I have nothing. If I give all my possessions to feed the poor, well,

Paul had not done that either. And if I surrender my body to be burned, Paul says, well, Paul had not surrendered his body to be burned.

Obviously, he was still very much alive writing this book. But do not have love, it profits me nothing.

So, Paul is exaggerating to make a point. He's using hyperbole. And what

Paul was doing here, Chris, is really a corrective against the Corinthians because the

Corinthians had become very arrogant in their exercise of the spiritual gifts.

And it had really become a contest between them as to who could prove themselves to be the most spiritual. Well, I'm more spiritual than you are because I speak in tongues more than you do.

I have the gifts of healing more strongly than you do. So, and because of this sin, this arrogance, it just almost destroyed the church from the inside out.

And so, Paul is writing a corrective, a rebuke to these Corinthians.

And what he's saying, basically, is this. Look, Corinthians, you think you're all that in a bag of chips.

You think you're so spiritual because of what you think you can do. If what you do and what you know is not based upon a foundation of love, it profits you nothing.

It profits you nothing. And that is true of us today. It doesn't matter what we do.

It doesn't matter what we think we know if what we do and what we know is not based upon a foundation of love.

And when I say love, I don't mean such a feely, happy kind of a kumbaya kind of a love, but a doctrinal love, a love that is based upon sound doctrine.

If what we do and what we know is not based upon that, it profits us nothing. We have become like noisy gongs and clanging cymbals.

That's what Paul was saying. 1 Corinthians 13 is not a text to support secret, private prayer languages.

He doesn't understand. Well, if you're finished properly exegeting that passage, let's move on to one of my favorite passages.

And a passage that is no doubt one of the very favorite passages of every

Calvinist alive. That is John 10, 27.

Such a beautiful, encouraging, and comforting text. In fact, let me look up that passage as I am sitting here.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

How is that commonly misunderstood or misinterpreted? Yes, Chris, this is possibly one of the most widely misquoted and misinterpreted verses in the

New Testament. John 10, 27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

The way that that is most often taught is that this is proof that we are to be hearing

God speak to us in a direct, quotable sense outside of Scripture, and some inner impression, maybe a hunch, a feeling, a voice in our heads, possibly even an audible voice.

And this is God speaking to us on a regular, daily basis, giving us guidance in our lives.

Well, that's not what John 10, 27 is talking about at all on any level.

In fact, to get the context, really all you need to do is go up to the one verse before it, verse 26, and Jesus says he's referring to the

Jews that had been challenging him and questioning him.

And he says to them, verse 26, you do not believe because you are not of my sheep.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. So when you look at verse 26, you see very clearly that the context here is not

God whispering to us inside of our heads, telling us where to go to have lunch one day, or something like that.

He's talking about salvation. He says to the Jews, you do not believe. Why do you not believe?

You don't believe because you're not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

So this is talking about salvation. And then verse 28, the very next verse, and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

This is very clearly talking about salvation. This is the effectual call of the gospel.

Chris, before a person becomes a Christian, before you became a Christian, before I became a Christian, do you know what we were?

We were a sheep. Now, we were lost sheep, but we were sheep. Goats don't turn into sheep.

Sheep don't turn into goats. We were sheep from before the foundation of the world. That just really means that we were among the elect.

That's correct. Yep, that's correct. In fact, read John 17, the high priestly prayer, and Jesus talks about that very thing, the elect, or that group of people that God has given, the

Father has given to the Son as a gift. It's what we are. We are gifts from the Father to the

Son. Before our conversion as lost people, we were sheep. We were just lost sheep out there in the pasture of life with our heads down, grazing, minding our own business.

But one day, all of a sudden, we hear a voice. We hear a call, and we perk our heads up, and we see the shepherd, and we go to him in salvation.

Yes, and to clarify what you mean by that, you are not saying that we are hearing a voice from heaven in an actual way where we're audibly hearing someone other than a human instrument.

You're talking about when a person hears the voice of God, either through reading the

Scriptures on their own, or from an evangelist, a preacher, etc. Yes, yes.

This is a picture that Jesus is painting for us. It's a metaphor that we are lost sheep, and when we hear the voice of the shepherd that is hearing the gospel, as you said, whether it is read in the

Scriptures, or we hear it preached from a preacher, and we hear that, we hear the gospel, we are called, and we go to the shepherd in salvation.

This is the new birth. This is when we pass from death to life. This is when the old things have passed away.

Behold, all things are made new. This is when God, through His Holy Spirit, takes out our heart of stone and puts in a heart of flesh.

This is a beautiful, beautiful passage of Scripture. Notice that Jesus says they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

If you've ever wondered about eternal security, can you lose your salvation?

Well, spend some time in John chapter 10. Jesus says, no one will ever snatch them out of my hand, and then, as if Jesus' hand were not strong enough, and it is, but look at the next verse, verse 29.

Jesus says, my Father who has given them to me, again, that's what we are, gifts from the Father to the

Son. My Father who has given them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the

Father's hand. And so, the picture is, we're out there in the pasture of life.

Jesus, the Good Shepherd, calls us with the call of the Gospel.

The Holy Spirit regenerates us. We come to the Shepherd. We walk into His hand, as it were.

He holds us in His hand. And then, Jesus, in verse 29, He takes the hand of the

Father and wraps it around that of His own. So, we are being held in the hand of Jesus.

His hand is being held in the hand of the Father. And ain't nobody getting out of that.

Amen. That is eternal security right there. It is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful passage of Scripture.

It's a beautiful picture of salvation, of conversion, and being held securely in the hands of both

Jesus and the Father. It's a gorgeous, gorgeous passage of Scripture. Yes, in fact,

I want to return to it just for another, a couple of more clarifications. But we have to go to our first break right now.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in today, our guest for the entirety of the program is

Justin Peters of Justin Peters Ministries, and we are addressing exegeting the true meaning of commonly misinterpreted texts of Scripture.

If you'd like to join us with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com

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USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

Before the break, Justin, you were refuting a common misinterpretation of John chapter 10, 27, and you were also including in that correction an affirmation of what has been called eternal security.

Now, I am quite certain that you believe in a doctrine that is very similar and involves eternal security, but I think is better named perseverance and preservation of the saints because of the fact that there are many who claim to be believers of eternal security and yet also believe in the heresy of a repentant, of repentant -less salvation where someone could take comfort and encouragement and confidence that they are truly born again and headed for heaven merely because they recited a prayer at Bible camp when they were seven years old and may have very soon after abandoned all notion of Christ, may even be a cross -dressing serial killer and that person is being told by fellow

Christians in their lives, oh, I remember he raised his hand at Bible camp when he was seven and said the prayer, so even though he's doing some horrible things, he's still headed for heaven.

You, obviously, knowing you long enough, do not believe in that heresy. I do not,

Chris. No, I do not. That's easy believism, cheap grace, antinomian, different flavors of that, but no, the sinner's prayer, quote -unquote, is not in the

Bible as it's commonly known in the evangelical world. Now, I am not one who says that God does not hear a prayer from someone who is truly convicted over his sins, truly repentant, cries out to God for forgiveness, absolutely, but most of evangelicalism has reduced the sinner's prayer to a theological version of abracadabra.

You know, you repeat these words and bada boom, bada bing, you're in the club. Never examine yourself to see if you're in the faith.

You know, it doesn't really matter how you live, just as long as you prayed that prayer and got baptized and you're good to go.

And write the date down, too, in the cover of your Bible that you prayed that prayer.

So, if you ever doubt your salvation again, then all you need to do is not examine yourself to see if you're in the faith, as Paul tells us to do in 2

Corinthians 13, verse 5. No, that's too hard. Just go back to your Bible and look back and say, oh, yep, there it is.

I prayed the prayer on April the 10th in 1979. Yep, I've done nothing for the

Lord since then, but hey, I prayed that prayer back in 1979, so I know I'm good to go. That is just a blasphemous doctrine and untold numbers of,

I mean, millions of people believe they are saved not because there's real fruit in their lives, not because their desires and affections have been changed, not because there is an increasing pattern of holiness and decreasing pattern of sin in their lives, no, because they prayed some prayer that's not even in the

Bible many years ago. They're resting their assurance of salvation on that, and that is a tragedy.

And I might add to that, I gave an extreme example of somebody being categorized as a

Christian even though they are a cross -dressing serial killer. I would even say that one should be seriously questioning their salvation, regardless of what kind of profession they made or continue to make when their faith is lifeless and dead, when they are not moved by hearing the

Word of God. In fact, they may even be bored to death by it and not even want connection or association with a local church, and their heart is not moved to obey

Christ's commands. Their spirit is not grieved when they disobey

Christ. They're basically walking zombies who have an identity as a

Christian, perhaps because of the way they were raised or what have you, but that person should be collapsing to his or her knees, crying out in repentance for forgiveness, because that person will be going to the same hell as Hitler and the serial killer.

That's right. That's exactly right. You don't have to be an axe murderer or crossdresser or whatever.

Do you have a desire for Christ? Do you have a desire for His Word? Do you have a desire to please

Him? Do you have a godly sorrow over your sin? Do you grieve over your sin?

Because you understand that your sin grieves God. Do you have a love for the Bride of Christ, His church?

Do you have a desire to fellowship with the saints? Do you have a love for the brethren? These are all things that should be in every believer's life, not most, but 100 % of them.

Amen. If your life is lacking those things, then you have every reason to do what

Paul says in 2 Corinthians 13 .5. Examine yourself to see if you're truly in the faith, because if you're lacking those things, then you're not.

And also to reiterate something very important that you said that might have flown over the heads of many.

This text, or the texts surrounding it also, in John 10, really affirm a

Reformed understanding of what is called the Ordo Salutis, or in English, the order of salvation, because most

Christians, this was not always the case, but most Christians today are not Calvinists, and they believe that by believing, they become sheep.

But that is not the order that God provides in the Scripture. And in fact, it is even further confirmed in Acts 13 .48,

where it says, those who were ordained unto eternal life believed.

The sheep believed. The goats did not become sheep by believing.

So, am I right in this association with the order of salvation? You're exactly right,

Chris. You're exactly right. Our election, the giving, when

God, in eternity past, as Ephesians 1 says, He chose us, referring to believers,

He chose us in Him, in Christ, before the foundation of the world. In eternity past, we were given by the

Father to the Son as gifts, love gifts. And so, we were sheep, as Jesus says here in John 10, 26, to the

Jews challenging Him, you do not believe because you're not of my sheep. That's why you don't believe. Not because the other folks were smarter than you and could figure it out.

No, you don't believe because you're not of my sheep. You were never given to. So, that is absolutely right.

Absolutely right. We have a listener who seems to write in whenever you're on.

Mary in Cork, Ireland. She is the very Mary who, while visiting relatives in the

United States, volunteered at one of my pastor's luncheons when you were the speaker.

And you had your photo taken with her, if you recall. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember Mary. I sure do.

Okay. She says, Hi, Chris and Justin. I just heard that Justin was coming on your radio show.

So, I had to tune in to listen to him. Now, I want to exegete

Mary's words there for a minute. She is revealing that she otherwise would not be listening.

I just heard that Justin was coming on your radio show.

So, I had to tune in to listen to him. So, Mary would be listening right now to John MacArthur on YouTube or something else, had it not been for you being on the program.

But anyway. She says, This scripture often pops up, and some people seem to have different ideas about what the second part of it means.

I would like to know what your thoughts about it are. Numbers chapter 14, verse 18.

The Lord is slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, forgiving iniquity and transgression.

But he will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation.

Yeah, I've heard different interpretations of that, even by people who agree on many, if not most, other theological matters.

So, perhaps you could share how you exegete that. Yeah, well,

God is slow in His wrath. He's slow to anger. In fact, well, this gets into what some theologians refer to as common grace.

God would be entirely just to wipe every single person off the face of the earth and send every single one of us to hell.

He would be entirely just to do that. Now, the non -elect, those who will die in their sins,

God has extended, even to them, a measure of patience and forbearance in that He allows a lost person who will die in his sins, allows that person, however many years on earth, to enjoy life, to enjoy good food and sunsets and friends and family and that kind of thing.

God wouldn't have to do that. He does not have to do that. He could send everybody to hell immediately. So He is slow to anger in that.

And as far as visiting the sins on to the third and fourth generation, that, and I don't have the text going up in front of me, but sin does have consequences.

And the consequences of that, of our sin, depending on what the sin is, can be passed on to different generations down the line, so to speak, from us.

But as far as personally, we are, I am not personally responsible for anyone's sin other than my own.

Now, my sin may have consequences that affects a lot of other people, but I am only accountable for my own sin.

I'm not accountable for yours, and you're not accountable for mine. And Ezekiel 18 brings this out as well.

So that's what's in view there. It's not that the guilt itself is imputed.

You know, I'm not guilty for my great -great -grandfather's sin. In fact, there's a guy on YouTube who calls himself, his name is

Mike Rutkowski, and he's a word of faith. I hate to say wacko, but he is.

And he's got a video entitled Exposing Justin Peters, and he says that the reason that I have, referring to me,

Justin Peters, the reason Justin Peters has cerebral palsy is because of his parents' sin. And because my mom and dad sinned, and they passed that sin on to me, and that's the reason

I'm crippled. That is just, that's garbage. I mean, read John chapter 9.

The blind man. The disciples asked Jesus, Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents? And he was born blind.

Jesus said it was neither this man's sin nor that of his parents. But it was in order that the works of God, the power of God might be displayed in him.

So, judicial guilt of sin is borne by no one other than the one who commits the sin.

And I'd like to bring up a text that I believe is misused by many within our circles of theology, yours and mine,

Justin, those that are theologically Reformed, but, unlike you and I, are

Pado -Baptists. Now, I have to make it very clear that I am not broad -brushing all

Pado -Baptists in regard to the text I'm about to read, and its misinterpretation by many

Pado -Baptists. There are Pado -Baptists who would not agree with this extreme interpretation that I am about to provide, but I'll have you comment on it yourself.

In Acts chapter 2, in verse, let's see, where should

I start? Let me just start with verse 38.

This is Peter speaking. Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the

Holy Spirit. This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off, to all whom the

Lord our God will call to himself. Now, there are Pado -Baptists in the

Reformed community who take this as a promise that their children and their grandchildren are going to be saved.

Now, it's kind of interesting. I heard a brother preaching on this years ago, and he was using this text for that very reason, so that everybody listening in his audience that was

Christian, of course, could take great comfort and encouragement and confidence that they can know for certain that their children will be saved.

And then he really sunk his own ship with the following statement when he said, and you will find that this is most often the case with most

Christian families. Now, what do you mean most often? If it's a promise that your children and grandchildren are going to be saved, then it shouldn't be most often.

It should be every single time. But the reason

I brought it up is it's kind of a reverse of the misinterpretation of generations being cursed by their ancestors' sins, if you follow what

I'm saying. This is a reverse of that, where the blessing of salvation will come.

It's almost as if you could breed Christians. But what are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, you're exactly right, Chris. That kind of is the other side of that coin. But yeah, it's a very poor interpretation of that text, what

Peter is saying there. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off.

Well, I mean, if you extrapolate that and bring that to its logical conclusion the way that some of our paedo -baptist friends are interpreting that text, then all who are far off,

I mean, you could pretty much get to universalism in using that kind of logic. So it's just not true.

Everyone must come to Christ individually. And that is the promise, that if they repent and be baptized, each and every one of you, in the name of the

Lord Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, and that promise, if their children and grandchildren repent, that means that they will receive the gift of that promise.

That's right. It's the free offer of the gospel that is open to everyone, to every generation after the cross, every generation, that the offer of the gospel stands.

But it doesn't mean that everyone will be saved, obviously. So it's a very poor interpretation of that text.

The fact of the matter is, there's nowhere in the New Testament, not only do we not see paedo -baptism, baptism of infants, we don't even see baptisms of children.

Children were around. They were mentioned in the book of Acts, but nowhere are children referred to as disciples, or do we have any record of them actually being baptized.

So it's honestly, Chris, I think that paedo -baptism is,

I really believe it's a Roman Catholic hangover. I think it's an area in which some of us in our

Reformed soteriological circles have not quite fully Reformed yet.

I think it's a vestige of Roman Catholicism that we would do well to just shake off and be done with. Amen.

I agree. And I ask all of our paedo -baptists listening, our paedo -baptist brethren listening, to be patient with us and not be overly upset by our loving criticism.

In fact, tomorrow, a dear friend of mine who's going to be my guest, Dr. Jeffrey C. Waddington, who's an

Orthodox Presbyterian pastor. My Reformed brethren know that I have both paedo -baptists and Reformed baptists on the show.

But I'm going to be honest. I critique my Reformed Baptist brethren when

I believe it is appropriate. But we have to go to our break right now, our midway break. If you'd like to join us, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

chrisarnson at gmail .com. If you have a question, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

U .S .A. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter. We'll be right back after these messages, so don't go away.

I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries. My friend Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia once again for the

G3 Conference. This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd on the theme,

Christ is Supreme Over All. I'll be joined by over 20 other speakers and musicians to lead in the worship of God through preaching, teaching, and singing, including

John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Conrad M. Bayway, Daryl Bernard Harrison, and Virgil Walker.

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Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

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Before we return to Justin Peters and our theme of the day which is exegeting the true meaning of commonly misinterpreted texts of Scripture I just have a few important announcements to make.

First of all, please continue praying for my brother John. Many of you know who listen to this program daily that my oldest brother

John, who is 76 is in a skilled nursing facility in Denton, Texas.

He was given the grim prognosis from his doctor that he only has six months to live at best because of his critical stage emphysema and cancer.

It is the emphysema that the doctors think will likely take his life in six months or less even more so than the cancer.

So, please pray for physical healing please pray that his profession of faith in Christ is even more vividly clear and that it continues to be an ongoing daily thing that he expresses.

Please pray that I am fully convinced that he is truly a born -again believer before he departs this earth.

But now I have added to that prayer my brother John's wife, Jan, my sister -in -law is now also in the hospital with COVID and pneumonia.

So, please pray for her healing too and her salvation. Also, folks, if you are a man in ministry leadership please, if you are able to get to Carlisle, Pennsylvania on Monday, September 27th from 11 a .m.

to 2 p .m. I am having my next Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastors Luncheon absolutely free of charge featuring guest speaker

Dr. Conrad Mbewe pastor of Kabwatha Baptist Church of Lusaka, Zambia, Africa founding chancellor of African Christian University author and well -known conference speaker in fact, he's also as many of you have heard from ads we are airing he's going to be one of the featured speakers at the

G3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia from September 30th through October 2nd along with my guest today

Justin Peters in fact, Justin would you not concur that Conrad Mbewe is certainly one of the most powerful preachers alive today?

I agree, Chris I agree I just love Conrad he's been referred to as the Spurgeon of Africa I don't know that he would he would give that name to himself

I think he's far too humble I've been around him some I've preached for him at his church and he would not tell you this but I will he helped me while I was there to get my socks and shoes on I wear compression socks because of persistent swelling in my feet and lower legs and I can't put compression socks on by myself but every day

I was with him he helped me do that and just a true servant dear brother in the

Lord and so I know a lot of people think all these big name preachers you know, they're you know, too good for the little folks

I can assure you that that's not always the case it may be true with some but not with Conrad not with the guys that I would that I would share a pulpit with he's a good, good brother

Amen and so therefore if you are a man in ministry leadership whether you're a pastor a deacon, an elder a parachurch leader and you can make it to Carlisle, Pennsylvania on Monday, September 27th from 11 a .m.

to 2 p .m. send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put Pastor's Luncheon in the subject line not only are you going to be fed for free and hear an amazing message

I'm sure from Conrad and Bewe for free you're also going to leave there with a heavy sack of free brand new books personally selected by me published by most of the major Christian publishers in the

United States and the United Kingdom every year since the 1990s the major publishers have been donating a hundred free copies of any particular book by them, published by them that I select so that every man in attendance can get a copy of that book and so therefore since many publishers do this every man in attendance will have a very heavy sack of books that they will go home in their possession so if you would like to be blessed by this this was the brainchild of my late wife

Julie in the 1990s she is the one that said let's every year have a

Pastor's Luncheon that's absolutely free where there's no hidden agenda there's nothing for sale there you're just treating men to a time of refreshment and fellowship and a good message from a gifted preacher and I took her up on her idea and I've been doing it ever since the 1990s thanks be to the mercy and grace of God and so if you want to attend the next one with Conrad and Bayway as the speaker send me that email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

chrisarnson at gmail .com and put Pastor's Luncheon in the subject line and as far as the

G3 conference is concerned, Justin I know that as I've just said you're on the roster and I know that as is typically the case the speakers don't know exactly what they're going to discuss or preach on till a week or two before the conference but do you know what you're speaking on?

other than I know that the central umbrella theme over the whole conference is

Christ is supreme over all but do you have a specific title or theme you are going to be addressing?

Well, I haven't nailed it down exactly Chris but I'm leaning towards preaching on okay, this is going to sound radical when

I say it so I need to qualify. Preaching on a different Jesus. Not that I will be preaching a different Jesus I will be showing some different Jesuses if you will that are being promoted in the evangelical world and showing some videos of that some very common

Christological errors and then correcting it from scripture. That's kind of the direction

I'm leaning right now Well, if you'd like to attend go to G3conference .com

G3conference .com and register. The conference takes place September 30th through October 2nd in Atlanta, Georgia and I hope to see you there because I will be manning an

Iron Triples Iron Radio exhibitors booth there. This will be my fourth year in a row doing so Also folks, if you love this show and you do not want it to disappear from the airwaves,

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chrisarnson at gmail .com and give us your first name at least city and state of residence and country of residence.

And I know Justin you wanted to further clarify and finalize some of your comments that you were beginning to make earlier on John chapter 10 verse 27

Yes Chris I just kind of wanted to wrap it up and I think we've explained the meaning well but I would say this as a footnote to that is that John 10 27 is so commonly misinterpreted if you hear a preacher male or female female preachers a whole other issue itself but there's a lot of popular female bible teachers out there so whoever you're listening to if you hear a preacher misuse

John 10 27 in that way reduce it such a beautiful and clear text of scripture reduce it to something so menial and trivial as God whispering to you on a daily basis telling you where to go to have lunch one day or take a right turn left turn if you get the meaning of John 10 27 that wrong whoever you're listening to if that's what they do that person has no business teaching the bible period

I mean if you can miss John 10 27 that badly then that person has no business teaching the bible that person does not need to be behind the pulpit needs to be in front of the pulpit you don't have to be a

Greek scholar to understand the meaning of what Jesus is saying there. In fact if you were to take that view to be logically consistent you would have to believe that those that do not receive revelatory teaching from God himself outside of the bible you would have to believe that those who are cessationists like Justin and I are damned because of the wording in that passage we would not be his sheep since we do not also keep in mind about the the texts regarding curses following generations after the individuals who perpetrated the sin originally that is the very thing that the

I don't know if they're using the text that Mary had brought to us earlier in the

Old Testament numbers 14 18 but the woke movement, the cancel culture movement they are using that kind of logic to blame all white people for sins of not only their ancestors but people who are not even related to them by blood other than through the family of Adam and this is absolutely atrocious and insane and in fact if you want to be consistent with that, why are not all blacks being held responsible for the blacks that sold their own people into slavery?

I mean you could go on and on and on with this kind of insane logic Yeah, that's right, that's right

Chris it's woke theology and you know some of the woke social justicians have blamed, oh if you're white then you're culpable in the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr well

I wasn't even alive when that happened but it is, it's absurd it guts the meaning of the gospel it guts the heart of the gospel and that is why the social justice movement is so an egregious cancer that is infecting so much of the evangelical world even some people in our soteriologically reformed circles

Chris, have bitten into this apple so to speak it is a poison that is infecting so many churches and it's going to end in disaster in terms of meaning

Do you have another passage that you'd like to address because we do have some listeners with questions and passages of their own so do you want to move on first to one of your own that you have?

Yeah, sure Chris, let's go to one that might surprise a lot of people but I think might be pretty interesting.

Let's go to Ephesians 4 26 and so Ephesians 4 26, even though you may not know it by the address you undoubtedly know the verse because it says be angry and yet do not sin, do not let the sun go down on your anger familiar verse but the way that we have most often heard this taught is that basically if you have a spat with your spouse if you have a tiff with your wife or your husband and you have an argument then you need to get it worked out kiss and make up before you go to bed don't go to bed angry don't let the sun go down now

I won't argue that that's really good marital advice that's a good thing to do but I would submit to you that that is not what

Ephesians 4 26 is talking about so when Paul says be angry that's actually a command be angry and yet do not sin now when you look in your

English translations that word yet should be italicized meaning that it's not actually in the text so what

Paul is saying here it's just applied by the translator so what Paul is actually saying be angry, do not sin, do not let the sun go down on your anger so what is the object of this anger well whatever the object is it must not be inherently sinful otherwise

Paul would not say be angry I mean if it was inherently sinful anger then you shouldn't be angry at all because even if you get rid of that anger before the sun goes down if it's inherently sinful you shouldn't have done it in the first place but that's not what

Paul is saying he's saying be angry don't sin, don't let the sun go down on your anger

I would submit that the object of the anger in Ephesians 4 26 is not your husband or your wife the object of this anger is sin in other words be angry at your sin don't let the sun go down on your anger be angry do not sin, do not let the sun go down on that anger in other words be angry at your sin stay angry at your sin, don't let the sun go down stay angry at it and when we hear that phrase don't let the sun go down on your anger what

Old Testament story does that kind of bring to our minds, it reminds us of Joshua's long day right the

Israelites were battling the Amalekites and as long as as long as the sun stood still then the

Israelites had victory over the Amalekites so be angry stay angry don't let the sun go down on that anger, always be angry at it and so this is telling us to go to war against our sin there should never be a time when we are not angry at our sin in fact for context looking up at the previous verse, verse 25

Paul says therefore laying aside falsehood, lying so what is lying sin, therefore lying aside falsehood, lying aside excuse me, laying aside sin, speak truth each one of you with his neighbor for we are members of one another be angry, don't sin, don't let the sun go down on your anger, so the context here is arguing for sin as the object of this anger and I think the next verse, verse 27 absolutely cinches it when

Paul says do not give the devil an opportunity when

I realize that, that's like a light bulb moment, that's what he's saying, do not let the devil, or do not give the devil an opportunity, when does the devil have an opportunity in our lives when we're not at war with our sin when we become lackadaisical when we become a little too chummy with sin, when we're no longer doing what

Paul says to do in Romans 8, verse 13, put to death the deeds of the body, when we're not doing that, that's when the devil has an opportunity and there's two words, primary words for anger in the

New Testament Chris, and those two words are orge and thumos, orge and thumos, now orge refers to a settled disposition of anger just a settled disposition that's not going anywhere, it's always there that's orge, thumos is a sudden outburst of anger and picture it this way

Mount St. Helens those of us who are old enough to remember

Mount St. Helens I think it was 1980, right, exploded so orge and thumos think of orge as the lava mass underneath Mount St.

Helens it's just always there, it's always roiling underneath the surface that's orge thumos is the explosion that's what happened when

Mount St. Helens exploded, that's thumos so which word does Paul use here when he says be angry it's not thumos it's not the explosion he uses the word orge this settled disposition of wrath of anger have that anger be that kind of angry against your kin that's what

Ephesians 4 verse 126 great and we have a question that actually might cause a bit of controversy even among the cessationists listening because not all cessationists agree that the verse that Grady is hinting at is being properly used to speak directly about the cessation of the sign gifts even though the people that disagree with that are themselves cessationists if I'm making sense but anyway you'll find out in a second what

I mean Grady in Ashboro, North Carolina says greetings brothers Chris and Justin I've only attended one service that was charismatic and found it disorderly and the gibberish confusing well first of all

Grady I'm glad that you found the gibberish confusing because if you understood it I'd have my serious fears about your mental state if you knew exactly what the gibberish meant how do they justify speaking in tongues when the apostle

Paul said tongues would cease and he is no doubt referring to the text in 1

Corinthians 13 8 love never ends as for prophecies they will pass away as for tongues they will cease as for knowledge it will pass away for we know in part and we prophesy in part but when the perfect comes the partial will pass away now not all cessationists use that as a proof text to prove that tongues will disappear before the end of time many do use that as a proof text but many don't even though they believe that tongues will cease they just don't use that as a proof text now

I'll pass that on to you because I'm not 100 % sure where you stand on that text specifically yeah sure so yeah 1

Corinthians 13 I believe is a powerful argument for cessationism it's not the only arrow in the cessation's quiver by any stretch but I do believe it's a compelling text so the let me pull up my notes here

I think we need to talk about what the perfect is as well there's different views on what the perfect is yeah some believe it's the completed canon of scripture some believe that it's being face to face with Christ in eternity in heaven yeah correct right so that is those are legitimate views the completed canon of scripture that's not my personal view

I don't think that the perfect refers to the completed canon of scripture it's a legitimate view

I have no problem with people coming to that position in fact I think that's what

Andrew Rappaport holds to I think that's a little bit unlikely given that verses 10 and 12 are parallel some states say that the perfect is the eternal state ushered in by the second coming of Christ it's not my view either

I believe that the perfect refers to the individual eternal state of the believer so like whenever I die that will be my perfect because it allows for the permanence of love and it fits the reference there that Paul makes face to face when

I die and I am glorified go to heaven that will be my that will be my perfect that's when

I will see face to face so I think that's what the perfect is so but anyway all of those views are legitimate views now as far as when

Paul says prophecy and knowledge will be done away catechist prophecy and knowledge there are the passive voice in the

Greek and what that indicates is that there will be an outside force that will cause these gifts to come to a halt prophecy and knowledge will be done away now tongues is different it's in a different voice tongues is in the middle voice and what that means is that tongues will cease on their own and I think we saw that I think the tongues did indeed cease on their own

I think we can safely say by the year 80 8070 tongues did cease they ceased with the passing away of the apostles passing of the apostolic age tongues just kind of ceased by themselves they just faded away as did by the way the gift of healing we see that in the

New Testament just out of curiosity sorry to interrupt you but would you say that that goes hand in hand with the understanding of many reformed cessationist

Christians that tongues were in addition to spreading the gospel to the

Gentiles in foreign languages they were also intended to be a sign of judgment against Israel and therefore in 8070 when you have

God destroying the temple through Israel's enemies that sign of judgment against Israel was basically brought to fullness and therefore the tongues were no longer needed as a sign of judgment that's exactly right

Chris that's exactly right tongues were as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14 20 -22 they were as a sign that was their purpose they were given as a sign of judgment to unbelieving

Israel Paul quotes Isaiah 28 there in 1 Corinthians 14 that's the context of Isaiah 28 one of the ways that the

Jews knew that they were under God's judgment is that there would be a group of people in their midst speaking a foreign language

Babylonian Assyrian what have you and when that happened they knew that oh God's about to bring the hammer down God's bringing judgment and so that is exactly you're exactly right that was the purpose the function of the gift of tongues to show

God's judgment against unbelieving Israel because they had rejected Jesus as their

Messiah and as a sign of judgment God's salvific gaze if you will his gaze of salvation was shifting away from the

Jews to the Gentiles to the non -Jews and so that was that was the function of the gift of tongues well

I don't know if you are finished discussing that passage but we have to go to our last break if you have any further comments on it we can have you provide those when we come back and by the way thank you

Grady and continue spreading the word about Iron Trip and Zion Radio in Asheboro North Carolina and beyond if anybody else has a question

I would advise you send it in immediately because we are rapidly running out of time chrisarnsen at gmail .com

is the email address chrisarnsen at gmail .com as always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter and we'll be right back after these messages back together again yeah back together again yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

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And Justin, did you want to follow up with any more clarifications about that verse in 1

Corinthians that usually is championed by cessationists?

And if not, we can move on either to another text of your own or to one of our listener texts.

Yeah, I think we pretty much wrapped it up. There's, as I said, different takes on what exactly the perfect is.

And there's three different main views that are all legitimate views within a cessationist camp.

Okay, so do you have a text of your own that you'd like to follow up with to exegete properly, or do you want me to go to a listener question?

I'm not sure we have enough time. I do have some more, but let's just answer a question or two. All right, we have

Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, who says, in Acts 4 .32,

we read, And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them.

There have been Marxists who have used this verse to support socialism and even communism amongst

Christians. How do you respond to them? Yeah, you talk about eisegesis.

That is a stretch to be sure. We know that the early

Christians and apostles and disciples had their own personal property. In fact, Ananias and Sapphira, they sold a piece of land, and they were supposed to do that, to give at least some of the profits of that to the church.

They kept it back to themselves. So we know that private ownership of property was a thing.

Acts 4 .32 is not advocating

Marxism or communism or socialism. It's just simply talking about how the believers took care of one another.

In fact, Paul says to do good to all men, but especially to the household of the faith.

In other words, especially to your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. It's not advocating a neo -Marxist, socialist kind of economic construct at all.

It's eisegesis at some of its worst. Yes, and this obviously in no way condones a government enforcing the sharing or abandoning of one's own wealth and property.

The whole reason why this is even mentioned is this was a voluntary and loving act. It wasn't something enforced by a government.

Yes, right. They did it on their own. Again, this is within the household of faith.

This is within believers caring for one another. This is something the

Christians took upon themselves to do, not something that they were being forced to do by their version of Uncle Sam.

Not at all. Well, I'd like you now to, since we are rapidly approaching the end of the show,

I'd like you to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners regarding your program today.

In fact, I might even want to start off your concluding summary by saying that just because we believe in the perfection of the word of God and that it is

God -breathed and that it is inerrant does not necessarily mean on this planet the body of Christ will be in complete harmony and unison regarding the exegesis and interpretation.

But at the same time, when things are really twisted and outlandish and even deformed to the point that they are teachings in the minds of heretics the opposite of what

God intended them to teach, we have to be very careful and ready and prepared to expose these false interpretations.

So perhaps you could pick up where I left off there. Yeah, that's right,

Chris. You can take any number of verses of Scripture out of their context and you can make the

Bible say whatever you want it to say. That's what the cults do. That's what the Mormons do.

That's what the Jehovah's Witnesses do. The prosperity preachers do. Word of faith. And they are. I mean, Roman Catholics, if they lift verses out of their context and read a meaning to it, that is not there.

Paul tells us in 2 Timothy 2, 15, Be diligent, study, to show yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth, accurately handling, rightly dividing the word of truth of Scripture.

And that accurately handling or rightly dividing, it's from the Greek word orthonimaios, and it literally means to cut it straight.

That's our task as Bible interpreters. We are to cut it straight with God's word.

Don't read a meaning into it, because when we do that, then we're going to come up with a false interpretation of Scripture.

Therefore, we will have a false understanding of God himself. What we know about God is derived from his word.

And so we've got to cut it straight with God's word so we can know God rightly and live a life of obedience to his glory.

Amen. Well, let me repeat the contact information for Justin Peters of Justin Peters Ministries.

His website is justinpeters .org. justinpeters .org

Please do not forget about the G3 Conference where Justin and over 20 other speakers will be speaking this

September 30th through October 2nd in Atlanta, Georgia on the theme,

Christ is Supreme Above All. That website for more details is g3conference .com

g3conference .com And please, if you attend, look for me at my

Iron Trip and Zion Radio exhibitors booth which will be there. I'm going to be,

God willing, interviewing not only speakers at the conference on site, but also listeners of Iron Trip and Zion Radio who may want to share with our audience how

Iron Trip and Zion Radio has specifically blessed them. So, if you'd like to have your own thoughts aired on Iron Trip and Zion Radio at a later date when we compile all these recordings, please stop by my exhibitors booth at the

G3 Conference. Also, don't forget, if you are a man in ministry leadership and you'd like to attend, the

Iron Trip and Zion Radio Pastor's Luncheon on Monday, September 27th, 11am to 2pm at the

Bongiorno Conference Center in Carlisle, Pennsylvania where Dr. Conrad Mbewe of Kabwata Baptist Church of Lusaka, Zambia, Africa will be speaking.

Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put Pastor's Luncheon in the subject line. It's absolutely free of charge and you'll be fed both physically and spiritually for free and you'll also go home with a heavy sack of books, brand new books selected by me personally, donated by most of the major Christian publishers in the

United States and the United Kingdom. I want to thank you so much, Justin, for being an excellent guest once again.

I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write. And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater