Can a Wife Divorce a Husband if He "Transitions"?

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It seems like the act that he performed itself of mutilating himself to try and pretend to be a woman that if we're thinking about like what category of sin is that I don't know what category to put it in other than sexual immorality.

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People are tired of hearing nothing but doom and despair on the radio that salvation is found in Christ alone and any who reject

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Christ therefore forfeit any hope of salvation any hope of heaven the issue is that humanity is in sin and the wrath of almighty god is hanging over our head they will hear his words they will not act upon them and when the floods of divine judgment when the fires of wrath come they will be consumed and they will perish god wrapped himself in flesh condescended and became a man died on the cross for sin was resurrected on the third day has ascended to the right hand of the father where he sits now to make intercession for us jesus is saying there is a group of people who will hear his words they will act upon them and when the floods of divine judgment come and that final day their house will stand welcome to bible bash where we aim to equip the saints for the works of ministry by answering the questions you're not allowed to ask we're your host harrison kerrigan pastor tim mullet and today we'll answer the age -old question can a wife divorce her husband if he quote unquote transitions this this one strikes me tim is one of those questions that while we call it age -old it's a relatively new question i don't think many people were necessarily talking about this in the in the same way that we're having to right now but but with all you putting that aside putting that issue aside uh what bible verse do you have for us that's relevant to a wife divorce divorcing her husband who is now trying to pretend to be a woman himself yeah justice 224 says therefore a man shall leave his father and mother hold fast to his wife and the two become one flesh okay so how how does you know that's that's a verse describing the you know the extreme basics of what a marriage is so how does how does that apply specifically to our scenario and the merit the hypothetical marriage that we're talking about here where the the wife is contemplating do i stay or do i leave with my husband who is cosplaying as a woman who has gone so far as to mutilate his body to try and perpetuate this lie yeah so this is basically the foundational verse for what marriage is in the bible meaning like when like this is this is the you know found from all the all the teaching in the bible about marriage actually comes so this is the main main main verse so most of what you're going to find in the new testament when they're addressing the topic of marriage is going to be referencing this basic definition of what marriage is in the bible so this is this basically the main thing so you have this and then you have you know marriage being a picture of christ's relationship with the church which is a mystery that's been kept hidden from all ages so you have those two things being basically the primary you know pillars on which all the biblical doctrine of what marriage is but then you think about what's actually happening there you have something fairly significant here so therefore man shall leave his father mother hold fast to his wife two will become one so you have all the basics of what marriage is so marriage is like a man and a woman right so it's not like a boy and a girl or something like that it's a man and a woman who are leaving father and mother so there's a change of familial status there so man and woman man leaving father and mother right holding fast to his wife uh in that way so you have two like right they will become one flesh when jesus comments on it jesus will often say so thus the two will become one so you have this basic formula for marriage like one plus one equals one right so two two equals one so you have that formula you have it's a man and a woman part of the formula too right so you have a man and a woman are designed to be joined in covenant of marriage and then you have like the nature of what marriage is it meaning it's a one flesh relationship which is you know essentially it's an anatomical picture there right so you have a man and man who is designed to like by god intentionally designed by god to be joined together with woman in that way so then when you when you think about the nature of the two exceptions that are given so there's two exceptions that are given like reasons for divorce given bible um so there's two like jesus will say basically except for like adultery like if um basically like there's the permit uh permission jesus gives for divorce is on account of sexual immorality because this is fundamentally a sexual relationship is to become one right and then when paul paul gives like an exception like like a reason to not be in like no longer be in the bondage of marriage meaning like if a believer is married to an unbeliever and the unbeliever is not pleased to dwell with them but wants to depart then let them depart the believer is no longer under bondage in that case well so both of these exceptions that you're going to find like the adultery exception or the quote unquote you know abandonment exception they're both appealing to the nature of what marriage is in 224 meaning like like the sexual immorality component is pointing to the nature of the one flesh relationship which is where like why you get the 10 commandments adultery is part of that right so that's all related to the one flesh element of that and then the desertion part is related to the hold fast component of marriage right so man will leave father and mother hold fast to his wife so if you're in a situation where one doesn't want to be held onto anymore then you let them go does that make sense yeah so both of those are the two exceptions that are given are given based on this definition of what marriage is so then now you know with that in mind then you're asking the question well what do you do in the case of like a man who cuts off is like castrates himself and pretends to be a woman who is who is married to a woman at that point are they is she permitted to divorce him at that point well then basically what you have is you have an individual who has permanently altered his body in such a way to like basically deny the nature of what marriage actually is at that point does that make sense yeah so you no longer have two becoming one in that scenario what you have is you have a scenario where a an individual has taken an action to prevent like the the basic definition of what marriage is from ever happening and so then you're opening yourself up to what is this like a desertion issue like he's a deserted her by like permanently preventing him from ever becoming one flesh with her again is is this like a conjugal rights uh sexual immorality discussion but all of this is just basically the nature of what is marriage like well this act is obviously denied the nature what marriage is and then does it fall within either one of those exceptions or possibly both so that's kind of nature but but but then it all goes back to what is marriage in the first instance does that make sense right yeah well i guess in my mind there also there also should it seems like there should be some element of if there's someone who if there's a guy who is convinced that he can become a woman it's he's not a believer and he follows through with it he's not sure he's not a believer no no christian that's not like fruit that's not righteous fruit from you know the holy spirit that's sin is anyone who is willing to go that far like there's no way they're a christian in that moment can they become a christian later sure maybe but in the moment there's no way absolutely no way so then it seems like you're also having the discussion about like and then you're probably going to have to talk to about like well how much longer are they really going to want to stay in this marriage that they previously entered into if they're already thinking this way so aren't you also having a discussion about hey aren't isn't this like a sure they might even say they're a christian but they're not if this is what they if this is the fruit that they've that their actions produce that their desires produce then it seems like we've got to be having a discussion too about you know let the unbelieving husband leave if he wants to leave right well sure yeah so um yeah part of that's related to the exception you're gonna find in first corinthians is meaning like if you're married basically the idea if you're married to an unbeliever you're not categorically instructed just to divorce them because who knows whether or not you may quote unquote save them right so sure first peter three basically says like like if uh you know wives who subject your own husbands even if some are disobedient to the word that you might win them over without a word when they observe your chase and respectful conduct now that doesn't necessarily say unbelievers it just says if they're not obedient which you know the natural correlation to that would be that they're probably not christians at that right but then like the the issue is whether or not they're christian or not it's you there's not like a hey i'm married to an unbeliever therefore i need to leave right so but then part of what right so part of you know what i'm i don't want to have a response to this is basically emotional and just says well don't nobody want to be married to that therefore let's add a new exception right yeah right like i don't want to do that but then and so even if they're unbeliever that doesn't mean like we'll divorce them but but as you're saying there may be any number of scenarios you can imagine happening where now that they've done they've they've taken on this act like they're going to ask you to participate with them in all sorts of like depraved things that you should not consent to whatsoever does that make sense yeah and so it may be that you just saying no is going to be enough to drive them away you know quote unquote drive them away at that point where they're no longer going to be even wanting wanting to be married to you uh but then i mean it's certainly yeah you shouldn't consent to the perversions that they're going to ask of you at that point um to be engaged in so right so i guess i get oh go ahead go ahead but yeah i mean so you're you're firmly like so what you're asking is i mean what what you're trying to think about when you're thinking about this question is which which of the exceptions are possibly both this is fall under uh or does it fall under any either any of them you know so is it just something you suffer through as a christian basically just you know this is this is the for better or for worse this is the worst part you know probably one of the worst things that could have happened yeah um so i i guess why don't we start with like the conjugal rights aspect of it because essentially it seems like if you if you have a husband who goes and mutilates his body to try and you know try and attempt to become a woman he's obviously not a woman he's still a man he's just he's just mutilated himself now um so and thinking about that like he this we're not talking about a situation where someone uh involuntarily lost the ability to um fulfill their their uh their promises made to their spouse right so we're not talking about the person who got in some kind of car accident and you know like their they had like physical brain damage done to them or or you know something like they're not paralyzed nothing like that we're talking about the person who purposely and willingly uh mutilated their body for an extremely evil purpose an extremely wicked purpose and now they can no longer fulfill uh their promises their obligations to their wife so is that in and of itself merit for a divorce biblically yeah so matthew 5 32 says i say to you everyone that divorces his wife um except on the ground of sexual immorality makes her commit adultery and whoever marries a divorced woman commits uh adultery so in that way like except for on the ground of sexual immorality i mean essentially at that point you have the word um parna essentially so yeah so a lot of this discussion is just about the nature of what does that mean even so like what what is what all is included in that and you know this this word is just the broadest word they're going to have for sexual sin in the bible so that's the reason why they're translating it sexual immorality is because sexual like there's any number of ways you can be sexually immoral and yeah i think the idea of conjugal rights falls within that category of sexual immorality in general for sure so first corinthians 7 3 the husband should give his wife her conjugal rights likewise the wife to her husband for the wife does not have authority over her own body but the husband does likewise the husband does not have authority over her own body but the wife does do not deprive one another except perhaps by agreement for a limited time that you made about yourself to the purpose of prayer and then come together again so that satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self -control so what you have in like this kind of example is you have an individual who has made a decision to never again give to his wife her conjugal rights which i mean like if you think about the way that sexual immorality works i mean there's different ways you can be sexually immoral so a lot of people don't realize this about the commands in the bible like there are sins of omission and there are sins of commission right so you think about like i mean like you think about like a command like rejoicing the lord always again i say rejoice well if a person never rejoices that would be a sin of omission like he's failing to do what's required of him to do but then the opposite of that would be complaining do you see what i mean like don't you know do not grumble like when you grumble that would be a sin of commission meaning like you're actively violent like you're actively violating the bible at that point but those are two sides of the same coin if you see what i mean so yeah like meaning like in the same act you're sent like by complaining you're also like that would be the sin of commission but then it would also be a sin of omission in the sense that you're failing to rejoice in that moment so back in the same way like the the the idea of marriage marriage is a one -flesh relationship and they're obligate like so it's not it's not simply just the the the idea is like there's a command you shall not commit adultery but then that like so adults like if you commit adultery that would be a sin of commission right but then if you don't give your spouse or conjugal rights that'd be a sin of omission like you're failing to do what you're required to do in that way but then both of those are sexual sins you understand like both of those are sexual immorality meaning like on the one you're failing to do what you've covenanted to do so like in many i mean still like in many states within the united states like if you have like a celibate marriage or something like that's tax fraud right because it's denying the nature of what marriage is marriage is a one -flesh union that's what it actually is you know so i think there's a good discussion to be had like in this kind of situation whether or not that would be fundamentally just a grounds for divorce like falling within the broader category of sexual immorality as a sin of um uh sin of omission at that point does that make sense yeah failing to fulfill the conjugal rights would be the sin of omission in this case right right so i mean like that would be um i mean you think about it that would be like the worst like at that point you're no longer even like what makes marriage marriage is it is a sexual union in that way and you're taking this fundamental like me when i say that i mean people often like misunderstand what i'm saying i'm not i'm not saying that marriage is only that i'm saying that that's essential to the nature of what marriage is over against other kinds of foundational definition first few chapters of genesis so i mean like the idea is that god didn't create marriage in order that like like a man and a woman come together and just be besties you know right so i mean like marriage should be a bestie relationship yeah right but it's it's fundamentally more than that it's a procreative relationship it's a sexual relationship designed for procreation so like god didn't just like create marriage in order that people like might come together and just have like deep intimate friendships with people of the opposite sex i mean like you you exist because god designed marriage to be right geared towards procreation so he's filled your body with hormones and he's you know filled your wife's body with hormones that make her to desire everything as a baby right like desire babies so he's done that in order to like bring about new people and then he's made it a pleasurable thing but he's confined that to the nature of what marriage is so you think about things along those lines do you have an individual who basically just like castrates himself at that point well he's basically just taken this he's done he's he's taken this marital relationship and he's just turned it into something else does that make sense yeah um so and then now he's like now he's like pretending like whatever way he's going to relate to you he's relating to he's now relating to trying to relate to you like a woman will relate to another woman so this is like a parody of what marriage is at that point like now i mean he's obviously still kind of a man you know well yeah he's still he's still he's he's a man with you know he's an emasculated man he's a masculine emasculated man he's still a man though i i think the other the other question i have relating to this portion of the discussion is just what it seems like it seems like the act that he performed itself of mutilating himself to try and pretend to be a woman that if we're thinking about like what category of sin is that i don't know what category to put it in other than sexual immorality yes is there is there another category that it could possibly fit into other than sexual immorality other other than yeah other than sexual immorality because that in my mind that's where it goes and in my mind that you know if that if that's if the grounds for divorce if one of the two is sexual immorality then it seems like we that's been met in a significant way yeah so think about think about it this way all right so um all right i'm going to read a little bit in matthew 19 right so okay and a lot of these ideas show up in matthew 19 related to this topic a lot of people aren't thinking about them quite like this because they don't really know what marriage is but look right so matthew 19 3 the pharisees came up and tested him saying is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause and he answered have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female so where's that going genesis right genesis yeah and he said therefore our definition of marriage right he said therefore a man shall leave his father and mother hold fast to his wife the two will become one flesh so genesis 224 so he says so they are no longer two but one flesh so then that gives you like jesus understanding what marriage is it's two becoming one right so they are therefore so they are no longer two two but one flesh what god has joined together let no one separate then they said to him why then did moses command one give a certificate of divorce and to send her away and he said to them because of your hardness of heart moses allowed you to divorce your wife but not from the from the beginning it was not so and i say to you whoever divorced his wife except for sexual immorality and marries another can miss adultery so the disciples said to them if such is the case of a man with his wife is it is better not to marry right and he but he said to them not everyone can receive this saying but only those to whom it is given so who has it been given to receive the saying that it's better not to well he says for there are eunuchs who have been so from birth like eunuch is someone who has been castrated right so right there are eunuchs have been so from birth there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men who have been castrated right and then there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven let the one who's able to receive it receive it like in other words like the idea is there to say that a castrated man is fundamentally like unsuitable to be married right right because like because what the definition of marriage is to become one so now if you have a man who is married who then castrates himself at that point then what you're dealing with is you're dealing with an individual who's no longer really even able to perform the basic qualifications for what makes marriage marriage at that point does that make sense so he's put himself in this category of individuals jesus says better than not because marriage is a two to become one flesh relationship so yeah i mean i think in that way whatever you're talking about you're talking about like this is a form of sexual immorality right in that way right and and so thus it would fit into the yep um you know reasonable or you know biblical reason yeah no biblical grounds for divorce right yeah no i mean other people want to put it in the category of abandonment and i i would just make a i'm suspicious about the word abandonment because it's not really in the bible um so like if if a woman is married to a you know unbeliever and he consents to dwell with her then you know she should be married to him but then if he if he departs then let him depart for she is no longer under bondage like that word there is a word that means physically distance himself so i'm i'm a little bit uh suspicious of attempts to turn like a word that means physically distance himself from someone like leave into a word that means basically something to the effect of fail to fulfill all of his marital obligations to a satisfactory degree or something along those lines but then i do think there is something to be said about like if he consents to dwell with her if he's pleased to dwell with her meaning like if he's pleased to be a husband to her then like um she should remain with him but then like in this kind of case is he really pleased to be a husband to her if he's trying to be a wife to her does that make sense right yeah yeah so i mean it seems like we're not really talking about the same thing yeah so i mean i'm sympathetic to attempts i would say i mean i'm sympathetic to an attempt to say hey yeah this falls under that category and then you know like if he castrates himself at that point then are you talking about a situation where he's functionally departed from his ability to be one flesh with her so he's put like uh like he's not holding fast to her at that point right he can't at that point so and he can't become one flesh with him so is that does that fall under that kind of category too i i don't know i mean maybe maybe it falls under both you know i would say that it fall definitely falls under one or the other or both of them at the same time but i mean yeah i i think the idea of a man pretending to be a woman like is so fundamentally contrary to the nature of what marriage actually is at that point and then him taking away an ability to be like a husband to her in the primary fundamentally since fundamental sense of word i say yes definitely sexual immorality and i think definitely is abandoning his commitment sure to be like it's departing from his commitment to be a husband to her i would say that that's probably true too in a certain sense but i think it's clear on the sexual immorality end of things yeah i guess we probably have to be careful with the abandonment thing because obviously we're all sinful none of us perfectly fulfill you know the all of the commitments that we made when we got married right and and so i i guess i could see it i guess you're just trying to um you know leave some sort of room to defend against the the person who might say hey i want to divorce because my husband is not emotionally meeting all my needs you know right right some something like that that's very clearly not the same that's what we're talking about right now yeah i mean i can imagine certain scenarios like let's say that like a husband um he's pleased to have a wife who he can have sex with whenever he wants to but then he refuses to like he wants to be married to her meaning use her for that but then he refuses to actually go to work and provide for her right so i mean in like a situation like that it's like um she and then if she were just to say hey like i'm not going to go work either so you can't just stay home all day long and play video games and then use me for sex and expect me to be the provider i'm not going to do that you know so and then he's like well i'm not going to work you know you go do it you know huge all the short straw on this one like but i'm i i don't want you to leave right i want you to just go out there and make money for me i think at a certain point i think in a situation like that where he's demanding like surrendering his responsibilities to her and looking to her to like engage in some kind of role reversal or something like that i think she would be well within her rights just to go find someone who's going to feed her do you you know i mean at that point like like there's um um like you're abandoning like you've you you may be physically there but you've like you have departed your commitment so i mean i think there there are probably situations like that where you may physically be there but you are fundamentally unwilling to actually be a husband and i think pastors are there to help you to sort out whether or not you're in that situation so that you're not just coming up like you know you're not just have watched too many hallmark movies and decided that your husband isn't you know emotionally fulfilling anymore or something yeah but um yeah i mean so i think you have to be really careful with that one that you don't just turn that into an open -ended like divorce for any reason kind of thing but yeah sure i think in a scenario like this i mean you do have a situation where um you have you have a person who is denying the fundamental nature of what marriage is and what these exception clauses are meant to do is talk about that you know like the definition of marriage as grounded in the bible genesis 2 24 right for this reason man shall leave father and mother hold fast to wife unless he's not pleased to dwell and departs right he's not holding fast anymore and to become one like you know or sexual immorality i think so yep i think even i guess i have a question about even in your example you gave where you're you were essentially saying hey if the if the man you know he refuses to work he refuses to provide which is part of his role in the marriage um you know uh the the role to provide is solely put on him and he's refusing to do that well obviously he's he's forsaking a large part of what it means to be a husband and the bible addresses that you know the bible tells us that that the man who refuses to provide for his family is worse than an unbeliever right he's an infidel which which you know just as a side note is so funny because we did an episode on that and it's just it's just a straight up bible verse and people who are claiming to be christian disagreed with the bible verse that you know that it's they they treated it as if it's wrong to say that someone who refuses to provide for his family who refuses to be the sole provider uh he he is worse than a non -believer they they didn't agree with that for some reason i i don't understand it's just straight up a bible verse like we could have just read that bible verse and be done with it and that would have been sufficient um but putting that aside i guess and i guess my question is if you've got that kind of scenario the guy refuses to the guy refuses to um provide for his family he he wants he he's still there physically he's not he's not like wanting to leave or anything he just doesn't want to provide for the family is that is that like a a biblical is there a biblical grounds for divorce there given the fact that like obviously we're in like he's unbeliever he's an unbeliever territory that's where we're at but he's not he's not trying to depart he's staying there and yes he's forsaking his he's forsaking one of the commitments that he made um you know when he got married but then is that the same i guess in my mind i'm having a hard time getting that to fit squarely in the category of divorce the same way the sexual immorality things seems to obvious you know obviously falls in there and the abandonment thing i mean it he's just not physically he he's abandoned them in like a he's abandoned his his role but he hasn't physically abandoned them so so help me understand i guess uh how that how the like abandoning the role is still grounds for divorce yes sir so first corinthians 7 13 uh if any woman has a husband who is unbeliever and he consents to live with her um she should not divorce him uh for the unbelieving husbands made holy because the wife and the unbelieving wife is made holy because the husband otherwise your children would be unclean but as it is they are unholy but the if the unbelieving partner separates let it be so in such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved god has called you to peace so basically i think i mean what you have is you have a scenario right here where you have a husband who wants all the benefits of you know being of having a wife but then he also wants the wife to be a husband to him right this yeah if that makes sense so basically he's taking on no role for at that point okay so like the issue is though but like um a husband should i mean a wife should submit to her husband unless he's asking her to send i would say that it would be like if he's asking her to be the the husband the provider he would be asking her to send so at that point i would say she should say no like i know i'm not going to work provide for us right here at the end but then the issue is this situation is naturally going to work itself out in one way or another if you understand what i mean yeah you have you have to have money someone's gonna make money someone if no one's gonna make money you're gonna starve to death right so right so i mean at that point i think if i were the wife in that scenario i would be you know talking to my elders and like trying to find someone who would take her in you know so i mean i wouldn't say the the um the initial move should be she should just divorce him i would say that she needs to separate her him and find someone who will help provide for her in that way does that make sense yeah yeah so like and that's a lot of what the church family is meant to do is to help with situational along those lines and then you know at some point he's going to be there by himself with no one to pay the bills for you know so i wouldn't say that she should casually just lay aside her commitment at that point but i mean like if that at that point he's gonna he's gonna have to find someone to mooch off of or he's gonna have to go figure out how to like make something of his life at that point right so i think in that kind of situation he's not pleased to live with her okay like he's he's he's not pleased to be a husband to her he's not pleased to be a provider for her he's just he i mean he likes her wants to use her for sex and and you know make her be the provider at that point but i mean i think i think that kind of situation will naturally work itself out so you know if after like all right so step one she should say no and i'm not just gonna stay here and starve to death right so god hasn't commanded me just to callously throw away my own life in obedience to you or something like that uh you're asking me to sin i'm not gonna follow you in that so she's gonna find some source of provision now if he just goes and like hangs out with her husband like hangs out with his you know buddies and everything else and this goes on for like two years and they just let him mooch off of them and you know let him play video games so i mean at some point it's like you're looking at that at that point you're saying he's not providing a place for you to live he's not providing you an ability to live underneath him he's showing no evidence of repentance like how long does this go on before you realize that he's not pleased like if he were pleased to dwell with you he would provide you a yeah yeah that makes sense so at this point it's just like like just think about naturally what would happen well she's gonna have to find some provision he's gonna have to she shouldn't be providing for him you know he's gonna have to do something else and so then i mean i think there should be a long period of where i'm waiting for you to be my husband again and and take care of me right and yeah and if you're not then at some point we call a spade a spade you know but i don't think i don't think obviously she should be making those kind of decisions all on her own but i think that's what pastors can help everyone do at that point but i mean i don't think you should be playing fast and loose with the meaning of these words here for sure yeah because it's a big deal to divorce someone you know um that's a huge deal and that's obviously there's a lot of this should be the first it shouldn't be the first step like the first thing you do is think oh okay do i have permission to divorce because like they're currently not living with me well it's like no let's try to exhaust every other thing right and i get i get i'm assuming the reason you're saying that is because there's so much uh damage that's something like that's not the intended design right and so therefore there's a lot of um there's a lot of negative consequences that inherently come with divorce that uh you know in a lot of ways are uh especially towards like the kids if there's kids involved like it can be really bad for them yeah so you do not have both parents there right yes i mean you think about how any any way that this can go down in any number any one of these situations like um like if you think about the man who is has castrated himself or whatever whatever kind of intimacy he's going to be wanting to have with his wife at that point it's just going to be some monstrosity kind of i mean i'm not even trying to put images in people's head i'm just trying to like state the obvious like just whatever they're going to do is not going to be conjugal rights anymore and it's going to be some kind of thing that she her conscience should probably not want to engage in whatsoever anymore um and she would be right and right to say no to but i mean he's he's going to want to you know like the issue is it's like all right he's going to want to it'll get resolved probably one way or another anyways if you know what i mean like he's going to want to go live out his kink at that point right because it's that's all that we're talking about is some kind of kink that he has developed he's going to want to go carry it out and act it out and figure it out and so i mean at that point he's committed like not just a sin of omission but a sin of commission at that point she's free to go you know in the same way like with the situation where like the guys just wanted to play video games all day long and use her or whatever you know if she says no i'm not going to provide for you and i'm gonna have to figure out how to survive now but i'm not going to provide for you then you know he's gonna be in some kind of dwelling place and probably ends up cheating on her at some point anyways you see what i'm saying yeah like the whole thing kind of goes it goes to part at a certain like a certain point you know it is it it'll resolve itself in one way or another for sure but yeah divorce should be a last option even in cases where it fits because it's just so destructive to society and um god hates it for sure okay fair enough well i think that's a good place for us to wrap up the conversation so thank you tim for answering all my questions and we want to take this time to thank you guys for listening to us week in and week out supporting us and you know interacting with us on social media we put out a lot of content there as well we put out shorter videos we put out um polls that we run that eventually get turned into episodes oftentimes if we see that there's a lot of you know there's a lot of discussion around it or there's you know a lot of disagreement with what with what we think is the correct answer to to these polls and and so we we run a lot of that through our social media 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