September 18, 2017 Show with Charlie Liebert on “Without 3 Miracles, Darwin’s Dead: Science Proves Atheistic Evolution is Impossible”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron. So one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. Now, here's our host.

Chris.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. Lake City, Florida. And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arntz in your host of iron sharpens Iron radio.

Wishing you all a happy Monday on this 18th day of September 2017. And I have some sad news for those of you who don't already know this. But someone who I know very well, although I had not yet reached a point where I was a close friend of his but he had spoke at my church Along with his dear friend David Wood and I say my church the church where I was a member on Long Island before relocating to Pennsylvania Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York.

I'm speaking of Nabil Qureshi. Many of you know that he was battling cancer very valiantly and courageously and a very Christlike state of mind and Well, sadly Nabil Ended his struggle on Saturday. He entered into eternity with Christ, which is obviously the good news of that story whenever a Christian Passes from this earth.

We know that there is a bitterness to it, especially when someone is as young as Nabil Qureshi who was only 34 years old. The prime of his life and ministry as a Christian apologist a former Muslim who came to Christ Through God in his sovereignty using the evangelism.

Of his friend David Wood many of you know David Wood as a Christian apologist Who is most well known for his ministry with Muslims and having debates with Muslims globally? Well One of the reasons that David even got into that ministry was because he had made a friend of Nabil Qureshi in college when Nabil was still a Muslim and They used to have friendly Conversations debates and arguments over theology and then finally in God's sovereignty Nabil finally bowed the knee to Christ and recognized that his Muslim religion was indeed a false religion and his Allah was a false God and his Muhammad was a false prophet and he came to adopt and embrace the Christ of the Holy Scriptures and the gospel of the Holy Scriptures and the Holy Scriptures themselves as God's inerrant infallible word and.

Nabil.

Was suffering. More and more it seemed as the as the weeks and months went by and I saw a very recent A plea for prayer that he made from his deathbed. It was videotaped and and I think that may have been filmed just the day before he went home to glory.

I'm not a hundred percent sure. But hopefully God willing we'll be having David Wood his very close friend who I just mentioned who led him to Christ. David would on the program to pay tribute to Nabil Qureshi.

I don't know when that will be yet But I will keep you updated on that, please. Pray for the family of Nabil Qureshi and even pray for his dear friend. His very close friend David Wood who was Like a not only a spiritual brother in Christ, but a blood brother With Nabil Qureshi, hey, they were so close and I'll be keeping you updated on any further developments in regard to an interview with David Wood on This this precious brother Nabil Qureshi who is now spending eternity with Jesus Christ free from pain sickness and sorrow and remorse and regret Experiencing a joy that our Puny finite minds could never even begin to fathom.

Charlie Liebert and the Case Against Atheistic Evolution

Well today we have on the program a returning guest. Many of you have heard Charlie Liebert on this program not only as a guest but also as a co-host from time to time. He is the founder of six day creation .com.

He is the author of a number of books and we are today going to be Discussing his newest book his latest book without three miracles Darwin's dead science proves atheistic evolution is impossible. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back into the iron Sherpins iron studio Charlie Liebert.

Thank you Chris. It's great to be here and in studio with me as well is my co-host the Reverend buzz Taylor. Hello.

It's good to be here again and good to be with you again, Charlie. Thank you.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question regarding Evolution creation Darwin, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chris ar n z n at gmail .com and please give us at least your first name your city and state and Your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

Well, Charlie. This is quite a captivating title that you have come up with for this book without three miracles Darwin's dead. In fact the first thing that popped into my head when I read this title is that it would actually be a far greater miracle if Darwin was alive.

That's.

That's correct. It's more a reference of Darwinism than Darwin himself, right?

And if you could what was the catalyst behind writing this book. And there's a lot of Christian material in print that refutes or attempts to refute. Atheistic evolution, that's correct. And even theistic evolution.

Yes, that's right. What what was missing on the library shelves of Christians all over the world that required this new volume?

Without three miracles Darwin's dead. Okay. Let me let me go back and kind of rehearse how I got there. All right. I was teaching Christian businessmen about six years ago and an issue kept coming up about.

I Get asked a question I'm ready to witness to someone and I get I get kind of sidetracked and never get to witness and that's my first book always Be ready to give an answer as I was writing that one of my Christian mentors Bob Kelly I said to me Charlie now that you've got the strategy to handle it handle the questions and give a testimony every time.

How about answering the questions? Well, I've had a website for 25 years. So I've got answered. I had 106 questions I had standard answers to and that became the second book answers of the hope that's in you as I'm finishing that Bob comes to me again and says Charlie you've handled creation evolution in that book but you really haven't made a good sound argument against it in a simple form that the Non-scientific readers can can read without having to stumble over the words.

I said, yeah, you're right Bob and that's the result of this book dreamer without three miracles Darwin's dead as I thought about it. And I talked about it with Bob and some of the others. I came to the conclusion that there are three impossible steps for Darwin.

Three things that would have to be miracles. The first one is the appearance of something from nothing. That violates the first law of the next Neil ho next Nilo for X Nilo something from nothing. Okay, that violates the first law and we get into these in more detail in a minute.

The second one is the appearance of life from dead material. That's also an impossible. That's called the law of biogenesis and that was basically started by Pasteur. Saying that life comes from life and life of the same kind of life.

So that's the second miracle. I call that one Frankenstein. The first one I call magic. Okay like the rabbit from the hat magic third one I call uphill molasses. Because. The third one is a violation of the second law the second law simply says the universe's was wound up at the beginning is running down every every process loses heat and eventually goes to.

A.

Process where it has less energy than it had before if I ever get the money to start my own restaurant.

I am going to call it uphill molasses.

Molasses. So so what. What happens in evolution is evolution claims to go uphill against that law in increasing complexity and Gaining information through or through time which is basically a violation of that second law.

So we've got three scientific laws violated by atheistic evolution. You can't get past that. Okay, they require miracles. In fact, if you read the writers that understand that for example, they say well it happened just once so it's still a law.

That's nonsense. In science a law is a law for the law's law. You can't you can't negate it. I mean if I go up on the roof and say I don't believe in gravity and jump off what happens I'm gonna hurt myself.

Because I'd love to see a try.

I'm gonna hurt myself coming down, you know, so so that's obvious. So I decided to put it together in a in a form that's relatively simple. Okay, I begin to deal first with what is the nature of science then I described evolution as the as the proponents of evolution Describe it.

Okay, how they how they describe it. I go through and talk about the Big Bang and its origins and then life from non-life and. Then we get into the third part, which is the three impossible miracles.

I deal with each one separately. In that chapter then I deal with how do they justify it and I call this one and this is based upon Dawkins book falling off the improbable cliff. Because Darwin wrote Dawkins wrote a book about evolution Climbing Mount Improbable and his his premise was that when you look at the possibility of getting to mankind from basically nothing.

You have an impossible situation. But if you go around the back of the mountain, you'll find a very slow gentle slope that takes you up there. That was his premise. So I've basically destroyed that and falling off the improbable cliff.

Then I have a chapter by written by a guest a guest author called Michael. Michael wrote a chapter called irrational rationality of unbelief and that deals with The nature of Christianity the nature of other world religions.

Then I come to the apologist. What is an atheist to do? What answer do they have to these arguments and I've got got this analysis of that and then I handled in the last chapter. Something I feel is very important and I've handled only three here cultural impacts of evolution.

What difference does it make about whether we believe evolution? I've handled three different things. I've talked about here.

Well, since you've covered it all I guess we're out of time and it's great.

We haven't even gotten started Chris. We haven't even gotten started. Okay the first. The first cultural impact is the downward progress of atheism. That is what happens with atheism as it takes hold in a culture in a society and that's a downward progress.

And that includes some commentary on Romans chapter 1.

For some reason brethren buzz Taylor already wants to jump in with a question or comment.

I just wanted to pipe in here as you say that as what listeners to understand. We were not saying all the rest is true because it has to be true because of the negative cultural impact, right? That's right.

It's true. And because of because evolution is not true We can expect it to have a negative cultural impact. But just so people know because you know when I talk theology with people a lot of times It's like well, do you want as if that had anything to do with the truth?

In other words, just because the leftists and liberals appear to hate Donald Trump doesn't mean he's a wonderful president.

That's your wording.

I don't think so. I don't think so. Oh, I think it's a good analogy though. But anyway, go ahead. Yeah, I deal with the public beliefs about origins and this is really interesting study. If you look at the situation in the 1950s when I was in high when I was in grade school in high school.

About half the population believed in evolution about half believe in creation. Now they've had control of the school for 55 years more than the more than that actually more like 60 years. That is the humanists the people who teach evolution only and you know what the u .s Population believes 50 creation 50 evolution.

It hasn't changed which means you can't educate people out of their foundational beliefs no matter how much you try.

So in other words if you were to ask your average man on the street who wasn't even a Christian You're saying that 50 of the population would if you were able to interview 50 of them they would say.

Or if you were able to interview a hundred percent of them and 50 of those who responded would say they believe in creation. No, they don't believe in evolution.

They believe in another form of creation and they're not gonna be Christian beliefs necessarily. But they believe in an intelligent design intelligent design some kind of God that's up there somewhere that kind of made the stuff that the Stuff couldn't come up.

That's interesting. That is a shock to me. It is really. Okay. We do. You need to get the book then or you need to read the book. It's it's in there and you know, this is the studies are up to. I think it's a lengthy.

Well, you just brought your books for the first time today. Yes.

The last study I think I said it was like 2015 so it's real it's recent and it hasn't changed. I mean back in the Late 80s. I taught the North Carolina Governor's School. Which is a school for high school rising high school seniors done in the summertime on a college campus.

I taught that for three years and and I started my and I was teaching creation surprisingly. Because they wanted to to create a force to critical thinking. So they said they would have creation as a as a critical thinking thought the third year I did it was when I got basically fired and I got fired for a simple reason.

I polled the audience and said how many believe in evolution and about half the hands went up. How many believe in creation about the other half went up and the administrators that were looking were just completely shocked they said how can these how can half these students believe that when you know, we've been telling them for 11 years About to be the 12th year that evolution is the way it was done in creation is impossible.

And the simple thing is you just can't educate educate people out of their foundational beliefs. You can't just tell them I I have students that have come to me and they're in public school and say, you know An evolution is taught we just give the teacher back what she wants.

We don't believe it. Wow, okay, there's one more area here in the impacts that I want to I want to hit on before we get into some questions. That is the evolutions wasting resources and I've got two examples here.

The National Science Foundation has a website that costs millions of dollars a year and those millions of dollars are spent to basically foster Evolution on that website. It's very seductive it a student going in there would be it's very up-to-date and modern and everything.

So that there's millions of dollars wasted on that. The second is what's called go life studies the go life studies or studies to an evolution to but basically say Where does this worm fit in the evolutionary process or where does this fern fit in the evolutionary process?

There's millions actually hundreds of millions of dollars a year spent on those things on a model. That's not true, which means that that money is put down the drain if we spent that on disease research.

We'd probably get a lot more productivity because we get no value from that at all. And these are studies that are clearly designed to basically foster evolution. Okay, so that's the summary of the book.

Chris.

Great now. Have you exhausted what you wanted to say on the first miracle? No, I haven't exhausted it. Okay. Well, let's start with the first.

The first miracle disappearance of something from nothing. Okay, most Big Bang models will start with Several seconds after the beginning in other words time or whatever starts and then suddenly the Big Bang appears.

Now it appears from nothing. That's a violation of the first law and That that violation is very clear because When you ask evolutionists about that and I've cited several in the book if you ask them about that They say well, we just assume that that stuff just appeared now.

There's two answers to that It appeared from nothing which is a miracle or the universe is eternal and it's gone through what's called the Big Bang the Big Crunch. The problem is the Big Crunch is scientifically impossible based upon the work that they've done themselves.

So the universe collapsing into itself and then reconstituting itself is not a part not a possibility. So that is a miracle that atheists have to get past and when you confront them with it, they simply say well we believe that the The stuff just appeared without any explanation.

That's not science. That's faith and that's an expression of to me non-science or nonsense.

Basically, they're presuppositions. That God does not exist. That the Bible isn't true. They are just forcing themselves and others. To believe well that story cannot be true. So we're just going to develop a theory that we can never prove.

That just leaves God out of the equation and then leaves.

His.

Having created out of nothing out of the picture and I mean even Even some I'm not saying that they're correct. But even some Christians have adopted a Big Bang theory saying that God was behind it. But at least they require an intelligent designer and a creator to start the process.

Yes, they do and and and that's that that's the first miracle. I call that miracle magic. I mean, it has to appear like the rabbit out of the hat something from nothing. Suddenly the material appears for the Big Bang to begin.

Of course the Big Bang precludes an old universe and that's a whole nother discussion.

Oh, well, they or they or at least some kind of matter some kind of matters, right?

Now if you go back to Genesis that happens on day number one. Because because when it says when it says God created light if we want to translate that light to that light word from Hebrew Light for word today We'd probably translate it matter slayers energy.

Because God's creating all the stuff of the universe on day one and then he's organizing days two three, four five. And on day five He does the second creative act which is great living things and the on the day six the third creative act because you got always done Those things in threes.

The third third is the creator of Adam Adam in God's image. So there's three creative acts in Genesis chapter 1 six days and.

The the interesting thing about.

The.

The atheistic evolutionist is that He cannot base his arguments on the origins of Life or the origins of matter without using non-scientific Theories, there's no there's no theory Within science that has been proven Could possibly happen where matter is created out of nothing.

No because because actually violates the.

The first law says it's essentially the universe is a fixed amount of material matter and energy. It changes form. There's a lot of different things in terms of changing form. But it never never goes out of existence or comes into existence.

It's fixed. Matter can never neither be created nor destroyed. That's the famous expression of that that every grade school child knows that and.

So it's it's interesting those who these scientists who claim.

That.

Those who are proponents of intelligent design those who are creationists have no place in the scientific debate or To be used in science. Science classes there. They are to be barred from science classes or they should be.

Because they introduce things in their opinion that are non-scientific and yet you have Atheistic evolutionists continually using.

Ideas that have no scientific. Yeah, the appearance from the appearance of the Big Bang is a miracle. Because it violates the law. Either you say the law isn't true. Which we would have a huge uproar in science if we said that or we have a miracle to take place at the beginning.

And they avoid that art. They vote they avoid that and they avoid and they and they call that because they begin their models seconds after everything appears now.

Have you heard? some answers for that from or should I say theories obviously for that from a If atheistic scientists such as to to. Drag up an older name Carl Sagan. And now there's a new host of the cosmos program.

I understand. I don't know. Well, did you have anybody else? Do you do they have an answer that you?

Well, the answer they have is We don't know how it happened, but it happened. That's the answer that that's gonna be the answer to all three of my of my arguments. We don't know how it happened, but it did okay.

And it did because we're here and it exists.

Okay, I'm gonna go before we go to our first break. Before we go on to these next two miracles I'm gonna go to one of our listeners Daniel in San Jose, California. Can you ask Charlie Lieber to explain the three scientific laws that evolution breaks and the Explanation the evolutionists would give for each one of them.

Do you consider having in do you consider having an evolutionary mindset or worldview particularly harmful to one's thinking or to society as a whole. If so. Would that also be just as harmful to our brothers who believe in theistic evolution?

Okay, there's a lot of questions there. Yeah. Well, let's start with. Can you ask Charlie Lieber to explain the three scientific? Okay, that evolution breaks and the explanation the evolutionists give the first law is the one we just talked about.

Okay, the first law says you can't get something from nothing. It says all the material exists and it's a fixed amount of material and and the the answer that they'll give is well We don't know how it happened.

But it happened is suddenly the Big Bang appears. The second the second or law that I in the sequence that I do it which is called Frankenstein is the law of biogenesis. Which is basically Began the work for biogenesis began with the work of Pasteur and it simply says that life Comes from life and life of the same kind of life.

Okay, that that's clearly a law that that's that's there. The third the second is the third law, which is called entropy and Entropy is a law that's that says quite simply that the The universe is running down.

Every time you do something you lose a little bit of energy that you can't recover and That running down is part of the whole process of every process in the universe. So the evolutionist answer to that is well If you add energy you'll get order and the answer is you only get order when you add energy if you have a Intelligently designed machine to do it.

Let me give you an example the Sun's light on the earth coming onto the earth Does damage to things but if you put that through an intelligent machine like photosynthesis? It creates what new material but you need to intelligently designed machine to do it and I deal with that in the book.

Okay, that's that's the third law. So so energy added itself doesn't answer the question although evolution will claim it does it doesn't and Then the universe is running down it and let me just make a comment on it that universe running down implies That God or someone or somehow some form caused it to be wound up tight at the very beginning.

The universe's is running down. Einstein in his writing when he talked about his relative relativity He said that ultimately not. I'm so not Einstein. Isaac Asimov in his scientific writings Talked about the universe if it were eternal it should die.

What's called a heat death. Which means that everything in the universe would eventually come to a rest of a steady state of everything being evenly dispersed. It's not it's very ordered. So the order has to implies a beginning and Einstein confirmed that with Israel theory relativity.

So basically you were you were just repeating what we began the program with and the answers as he is asking for that the Proponents of atheistic evolution would have is I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know.

Well that and and you know, it happened once but we can live with one one violation of a law. Well, there's several of the people I read on on the issue here said with biogenesis that oh, yeah. Well life appeared suddenly once kind of by accident, but it violates law.

We know that but it's okay to violate the law one time. That simply doesn't work in science.

Some might consider just an irrelevant question too, though, right? Yeah, that's like ignore it all together.

How it could be a rebel it is mind-boggling. In fact.

The.

Proponents of an intelligent designer creator all of the only ones that have an answer for those questions.

He asked another question a part of the question which I want to address before we go to the break. And that is what what difference does it make if there makes a huge amount of difference in a couple areas?

Okay, first one and I'm not going to get into this now, but I'll just mention it. Okay, first one is evolution propagates and is the source of the concepts of racism. That's the first problem. The the second problem is evolution takes away the value of human life.

Which means simply that If I'm the strongest if I believe in survival of the fittest and I can kill anybody I'm bigger than and you even have.

Some Atheists actually having the at least the logical consistency to admit to that. Yes, they do. Yes, they do, especially if you're talking about groups of people conquering other groups.

Yes, the honest the honest ones will admit that. Yes, in fact if you come back to that even even slavery is rooted to some extent in evolution and they may typically say I.

Find this personally offensive. I find this horrible and evil. Which they really have no basis to have those opinions, but they will say that they cannot really say it is wrong.

For a.

They cannot mandate to the globe to everyone Living in the globe that this is wrong because they realize that that is the logical conclusion of their worldview.

If you go back in history and look at the beginning of the Age of Exploration You'll find something written about which is called a white man's burden. And that's basically the concept that all the races are inferior to the white race.

And as a result, we've got to kind of help them evolve because they're just evolved from monkeys too close. Well, that's an absurdity and that repropagates huge issues with a culture where you view some people as inferior.

That's what the Nazis did. That's what we do with abortion. We do that all over the place and that's that's one of the great implications of evolution the value of life.

We're going to a break right now. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside of the USA and.

Please only remain anonymous. It's about a personal and private matter. Let's say you disagree with your own pastor on this or.

You.

Have liberals in your home. Perhaps you're married to a liberal and you don't want to publicly identify yourself as being a creationist. Whatever the situation is, but if you are not asking about a personal and private matter Please at least give us your first name city and state and country of residence.

So please don't go away. We're gonna be right back with Charlie Liebert with without three miracles. Darwin's dead. Iron sharpens iron radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars a year-round Bible conference and retreat center.

Nestled on the Jersey Shore Harvey Cedars offers a wide range of accommodations to suit groups up to 400. For generations Christians have enjoyed gathering and growing at Harvey Cedars. Each year thousands of high school and college students come and learn more about God's Word.

An additional 9 ,000 come annually to Harvey Cedars as families couples singles men women pastors seniors and missionaries. 90 miles from New York City 70 miles from Philly and 95 miles from Wilmington and easily accessible.

Scores of notable Christian groups frequently planned conferences at Harvey Cedars like the Navigators InterVarsity Christian Fellowship Campus Crusade and the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals. Find Harvey Cedars on Facebook or at hcbible .org hcbible .org.

Call 609 -494 -5689 609 -494 -5689. Harvey Cedars where Christ finds people and changes lives.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted. He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains. Prewsley has no brains of his own.

You need to read. Solid ground Christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of solid ground Christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future and To publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001 Solid ground has been committed to publish God-centered Christ exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid-ground-books .com That's solid-ground-books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past or present You can unearth from solid ground.

Solid ground Christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens iron radio.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God? Or am I trying to please man. If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist confession of faith of 1689. We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts. We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do Than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity. But since that wasn't the Apostles priority, it must not be ours either. We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and To be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of Christ in truth.

And love. If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area Please come and join us for worship and fellowship. You can call us at 508 -528 -5750. That's 508 -528 -5750 or go to our website to email us listen to past sermons Worship songs or watch our TV program entitled resting in grace.

You can find us at Providence Baptist Church Ma .org that's Providence Baptist Church ma .org or even on sermon audio .com. Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor iron sharpens iron radio.

Have you been blessed by iron sharpens iron radio. We remain on the air because of our faithful sponsors and because of listeners like you. There are four ways you can help. First Do you know potential sponsors who may wish to advertise their goods or services on iron sharpens iron radio?

Second whenever possible purchase the products or use the services that our sponsors advertise and Then let them know that you heard about them on iron sharpens iron radio. Thirdly you can also donate to iron sharpens iron radio by going to our website at iron sharpens iron radio Calm and click support at the top of the page.

But most importantly keep iron sharpens iron radio in your prayers. We hope that iron sharpens iron radio blesses you for many years to come.

Hi, I'm pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m Eastern Time on WL ie radio www .wl ie 540 a .m. Dot-com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions.

Our time will be lively useful and I assure you never dull join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the pastor's study because.

Everyone needs a past and if you'd like to meet a pastor Bill Shishko who you just heard in that ad if you'd like to meet him face to face and Hear him teach face to face or ear to ear or how that works mouth to ear and hear him speak live.

You can join us if you are a pastor a an elder a deacon a Parachurch leader You can join us at the free Iron Sherpins iron radio Reformation Day Pastors luncheon that's coming up on Thursday October 26th from 11 a .m. To 2 p .m. Right here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania at the car Carlisle fire and rescue banquet hall and So mark your calendars now, and if you would like to attend that Please send me an email to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and Put pastors luncheon in the subject line and we will register you.

There is no charge for this at all. And in fact, not only is there no charge for it But if you attend this you are going to be leaving that lunch with not only having been fed physically with physical nourishment and spiritually with spiritual nourishment from the message that Pastor Bill Shishko of the Reformation Metro, New York ministry will be providing for you that day, but you're gonna be leaving with a sack of brand-new free books hundreds of dollars worth of brand-new books Just by attending the the top-notch publishers Christian publishers all over the United States and even from the UK.