The Dividing Line A Mega DL (Jumbo Radio Free Damascus)

Opening Banter and Technical Setup

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line the Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give it to answer with. Edit that out later.

The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us yet to give that answer with Gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reform to Baptist Church.

This is a live program and we normally invite your participation, but you know, he's got a full plate. So we're not gonna take calls. And now with today's topic here is James white.

How come we don't get to edit any of my mistakes out. You. We get to edit your mistakes out.

But we don't get to edit my. Actually it just occurred to me. YouTube is live and unforgiving so I Heard all that.

One of these days I'm gonna get that pre-recorded. Oh, it might be a good idea might be a good I fact I thought that's what you're doing earlier, but you didn't do that. Welcome to the dividing line folks.

It is a mega Edition of the dividing line which means during not do you gonna put something like during the break? It's like when I stand up and stretch and stuff, you know, you can put something up during that time, you know.

We've been provided a very pretty little banner that covers, you know, and so I I do this and you go away.

And you come back, okay, I don't even see any of that yes, but everybody else does that's okay we should put a little monitor up there and Have it facing this way so I can see what's actually going on.

That would be that would be no fun on this end. Yeah, right. Okay Anyways folks mega edition why a mega edition? Well because we have so much to cover and it is the last week before I Take off to London and South Africa and I have wanted to get through certain material For the debates in South Africa, and so we're gonna do that.

And so starting about half an hour from now. We'll actually slide into a Jumbo edition of Radio Free Damascus. How's that? So you put this together with that and it's a mega edition, whatever but there were other things that we needed to we needed to be talking about and We've got some some British viewers now there some amazing stuff that everyone's asking about first is I Can't keep up quite honestly with everything that's going on with the Bishop of Rome these days Pope Francis is I think Pope Francis is making a lot of my conservative Apologist friends in the Roman world very nervous the first few times a you know, we can interpret these and there's no problem, but You know when you when you start writing long letters and doing long interviews.

Eventually, you know what we're watching right now, it's fascinating. Dr. Moller was talking about it I think yesterday morning on the briefing and one of the things he was saying is well, you know, this is you know.

This can all be interpreted within historic Roman Catholic theology. But what is so very clear is that there is no clarity. There is no force to the teaching in the sense that you know what I see amongst Roman Catholics today are all sorts of people trying to spin it their direction and what this illustrates for me is The the utter incoherence of the denial of solo scriptura by Roman Catholics because you see they can say we have the living voice the Pope made the living voice the church and You just got the dead word of Scripture and you just you know.

We have the spirit all this stuff. But as soon as that guy in Rome opens his mouth Guess what? He has to be interpreted as soon as he finishes typing a letter to a newspaper. Now everybody gets to interpret his words.

Even when he speaks if it's in one language is translated another language. It's got to be interpreted. There's just no way to get around that and how many times have I heard Roman Catholic. Well, you know.

You've got all those divisions because you you know. You can't interpret written words you need the living and then they find themselves smack-dab in the same situation. Hmm. So what we have. What we have.

This. The headline Pope Francis church can't interfere with gays. What that is supposed to mean? I I don't know but under the subject of homosexuality. You know what he had he had said who am I to judge in an earlier interview on that flight and I'm left going.

What does that mean? Who am I to judge? Well in our society. That means who am I to say that a behavior is immoral. That can't be what he means. Is it? No, it can't be. Then why say it that way? That's spin.

I Thought the Pope was all about truth not spin. Well anyways Here it says quote by saying this I said what the Catechism says the Pope told Spadaro the Catechism the Catholic Church's book of official doctrine.

It's not just the book Condemns homosexual acts but says gays and lesbians must be accepted with respect compassion and sensitivity. Religion has the right to express its opinion in the service of the people but God in creation has set us free is not possible.

To interfere spiritually in the life of a person again, Rome has all this Rome speak but what does it mean and when you find a half dozen interpretations of Rome speak within Rome. That sort of gives you an idea of why there's I mean, you know.

Here's this guy has got such an incredible opportunity to give a clear testimony. And he doesn't he doesn't he won't do it. Says I replied another question you said Francis said someone once asked him if he approved of homosexuality.

I replied another question. He said tell me when God looks at a gay person. Does he endorse the existence of this person with love or Reject and condemn this person. We must always consider the person here.

We enter in the mystery of the human being. Okay. What does that mean? What does that mean? That's not an answer to the question Francis said someone once asked him if he approved of homosexuality. You can't give a straight answer to that.

No pun intended. What's all the rest of stuff about? Well, we're trying to get to a deeper meaning. Yeah, but if you don't answer the question, you really haven't gotten to a deeper meaning. If you want to talk about deeper stuff, but answer the question Homosexuality is wrong.

It brings destruction to the human person. But man the spin is on in Rome the spin is on but I Love this when I saw this one. They should have put up a few extra A's in this he's back. Benedict the 16th speaks out on sex abuse and calls Richard Dawkins science fiction.

This is dated today in the Telegraph from London. A horrible picture of a very very elderly Benedict 16th. We've heard very little from emeritus Pope Benedict 16th since his retirement, but he's made of a surprise return to public life.

Benedict has written a letter to the atheist mathematician. I'm not even gonna try this one. I'm Pierre Giorgio O'Doherty. Wow. That poor kid could not spell his own name until college. Pierre Giorgio O'Doherty.

Whoa. I don't know that ever seeming like that before anyways. Covering subjects in the sex abuse scandal to evolution and extracts that have been released by Italy's La Repubblica newspaper. Coming off the back of Francis's letter to another atheist in the subject of being one's conscious conscience.

It's hard not to draw parallels between the two and there's already discussion about the possibility of collaboration either way. Benedict makes some interesting points and. And you know some of the things he said are interesting but I Love this one and here Benedict pokes fun at some schools of evolutionary thinking.

Quote. There is moreover science fiction in a big way. Just even within the hit the theory of evolution the selfish gene by Richard Dawkins is a classic example of science fiction. Oh my. That's good.

That's gonna get a response. I can guarantee you that but of course the question now crosses everyone's minds is When did Benedict the 16th cease being infallible now, of course, I know. All my Roman Catholic friends are well actually, none of this is infallible because it has to be on a topic of faith and morals and they've so Constricted the definition down that there's always plausible deniability.

I mean the Pope could be saying I'm speaking as the bishop. Well, did he really mean you know, did he call it counts? It's just all sorts of stuff you can do to try to get around, you know. What's being said by any of the Popes?

Let's first time famous bail say that since. Oh Council of Florence I would say but whatever the Popes are saying. But here's a here's Benedict the 16th Speaking out and I I did find that it does raise the question, you know.

When when did he become? Fallible again after being infallible and did. Did he notice? Did he sort of go? Oh, man, I. Yeah, I could see your thingy. Oh, man, did I I. Oh, I just made him. Oh, I made a mistake.

Oh, no, it's probably not. What if he accidentally sits in the chair Peter? No, he's not allowed to do that. That's no he's not gonna. No, I can't do that. And of course we can even find the chair of Peter.

Anyhow, I did find it. I just loved. I can't wait for the Richard Dawkins response. I bet you it's already out there. I bet you someone has it's already out there someplace. I don't know but Anyway on to other sad things even more sad than that.

Most of you have seen and I saw the initial report on this sometime last week. But man, it has really become blatantly obvious that Former Southern Methodist University and NFL star tailback Craig James fired from His former US ESPN and CBS broadcaster fired from Fox Sports Southwest.

Because of his public stance on same-sex marriage. Evidently he had run for public office. I thought he was just interviewing somebody in a debate. That was the first things that I read that seemed to indicate to me.

I must have misunderstood it but In reality What happened was quoting here? In one of his primary debates in April 2012 James along with the other candidates was asked about same-sex marriage. After now senator Ted Cruz said that he opposed same-sex marriage.

James expressed his opposition to same-sex marriage and then discussed his religious perspective on Same-sex activity. People choose to be gay. I think it's a choice. I do same-sex marriage. If someone choose to do that, that's done and God's going to judge each one of us in this room for our actions.

And in that in that case right there. They're going to have to answer to the Lord for their actions. James explicitly include himself and other human beings as those judged by God. James's positions on other social issues are similarly traditionally religious on abortion.

For example James's campaign website stated. I believe that life is precious and must be protected especially in the womb. Therefore I am adamantly opposed to abortion. The Texas Republican Party platform is an adherence with James position in Texas State Constitution and trans traditional marriage as the sole standard for marriage in the state of Texas constitutional amendment was passed in 2005 by a 76 to 24 percent margin.

Despite the fact that James's comments represent a broad swath swath swath swath of the American public and that his comments came well over a year. Ago Fox Sports Southwest canned him over his views.

Sports Illustrated's Richard Deitch reported the initial news of firing with a statement from FSSW. Craig James will not be making any further appearances on Fox Sports Southwest football coverage this season.

But just to make clear that James's firing came as a result of his religious beliefs a Fox Spokesperson told the Dallas Morning News. We just asked ourselves how Craig's statements would play in our human resources department.

He couldn't say those things here. End quote. Wow. Well, obviously there's a lawsuit and if there's any justice in land whatsoever, it's a lawsuit. There will be one and one big time. But I don't know if there is any justice left in this land and It just again Demonstrates the the fact that there are more and more people in our society who are completely comfortable with denying free speech rights and denying religious expression rights to Christian people and it's just a given.

It's not that any of these folks could actually defend the idea of the redefining of marriage. None of them are consistent on this marriage equality thing as we've pointed out so many times before. But it's just already been taken as a given, you know, well Obama said it so it must be let's just go.

It's that's that's we'll move on from there and It will impact all of us all of us all of us. Finally Dr. Moller did mention this morning a story that I was not familiar with. So I looked it up because some people on Twitter had asked.

A Transgender theology professor asked to leave California Christian College after coming out a California Christian College. Azusa Pacific specifically has asked a professor who was once its chair of theology and philosophy to leave after He came out as transgender now again the writer here bows to the society.

This is a woman she has children on. Any logical rational moral ethical foundation if you gave birth to multiple children. Congratulations, you are a woman. Okay. You're a woman. You may feel like a man.

You may want to dress like a man, but you're a woman and Here Now you have this is Heather Clements taught theology at the school for 15 years, but this past year She I'm going to change to reality here rather than political reckless.

She has begun referring to herself as H Adam Ackley. H Adam Ackley. Um Ackley who is in her third year of a five-year contract told RNS that he and APU This is a Pacific University have agreed to part ways the university set will continue to pay her through the academic year.

But she said the university wants other professors to take over her classes. She also said that her insurance was denied when she sought hormone treatment and top surgery for her chest area. They're giving me privacy Transition but denying medical treatment to do that said Clements who is 47 years old.

Now of course what goes on and and I I heard this for the first time. From dr. Moeller this morning. I Hadn't heard this Term before. Well, maybe I have maybe Michael Brown has used it and it just didn't click or something.

But it's the next Absurd abuse of language so as to impact the thinking of people who really can't think anyways term. Get used to it. We all know about homophobia. All right. That's the that's the silly term you use to shut down thought processes.

It's not even semi-accurate and it is just what you do to stop people from thinking. Now we have a new term. I hadn't heard it before. But here it is. This individual is talking about. Told by my spiritual advisors and then spouse by the way this this Woman is I think divorcing her second husband now may have something to do with the problem.

Just maybe. Told by my spiritual advisors and then spouse the recovery sanity and preservation of my family required me to deny my now recognized Transgendered identity. I once again struggled with self-medicating self-injuring and self-starving of the female body during a suicidal relapse.

This is a very troubled person and. Then here it comes here it comes. This is what Christian transphobia does. Quote unquote. There you go, folks Christian transphobia so I suppose there's Christian bestophobia which would be if if a person Tries to commit suicide because The morals they were taught in a Christian home tells them having sex the dog is wrong.

It's the Christian face fault. That's Christian bestia phobia. And a Christian of course Christian pedophobia, I guess it would it be pedophilia phobia. Yeah, I'd have to pedophilia phobia. Yeah, it'd be pedophilia phobia.

That's if someone injures themselves because again They have Christian morals that says it's wrong to have sex with children. That's it's a Christian Church's fault lacking in love lacking in compassion.

You know any behavior. So we've got a Christian theft a phobia. Christian adulterer phobia. Christian hate a phobia. I mean, let's just start lining up. What has happened to people's minds when they blame the moral and ethical system?

For their own rebellion against God is this not the giving over. The giving over of of a society to ways of thought and thinking that are just so Outside of what we as human beings were created to be.

That it's amazing. It's it's it's it's horrific. It's sad. It's horrific and sad. But that's what's going on Christian Transphobia there's you'll be hearing it more. You'll be hearing more of it. You'll be hearing more of it.

You just you just watch Christian transphobia. Well, just one more. Just I'd mentioned this I had I had mentioned a few I don't know a week and a half ago. It seems that if you are going to preach the gospel openly in the United Kingdom Anywhere at any time anywhere at any time you will be arrested now.

On the basis of offending homosexuals. Again, you have a protected group that has been now elevated to the position of royalty an ironic thing in the United Kingdom and all they have to do is Run off to the police and go I'm offended.

And the police go oh, we'll take care of it and they'll throw you in a slammer for a number of hours. And then let you out. They don't want to they don't want to go through the whole thing but they'll drag you off the street sticking sticking handcuffs sticking the thing drag you away and You know, it's it's all meant to if we do this enough times.

They'll stop that's that's the thinking clearly and So now Josh Williamson back on September 18th six days ago Was was arrested for In the city center of Perth, this is not Australia, but in the United Kingdom.

He knows notes here. Toward the end of my interview the officer said to me quote you seem reasonable. Why don't you just stop preaching? I Replied by saying we ask you a question. Is it better to obey man or God?

Let's see, there you go secular state a State that was once flooded With the light of the gospel, but when the light goes out how deep is that darkness? How deep is that? Darkness. Truly amazing. It's really amazing.

That was September 18th, and so pretty much every street preacher over there. You just Got to start being ready to you know, do your thing and Have your have your Lawyers lined up and your legal fund ready and whatever else it might be because it's just happening over and over and over again and Robbie Hughes and same thing happened what barely two weeks earlier and It is truly amazing to observe the collapse of these nations.

So, you know and you would think the cops would know you would think the cops would know that this is just. But you know, you know one other thing real quick before we take a break I did I was gonna mention this.

I did I saved as my little I use this thing called get pocket calm and A fascinating little thing from actually from CBS News Amazingly enough creature with interlocking gears on legs discovered anybody see this.

It was fascinating. I'd like to be able to show this to you but What was this thing called? Isis Coleoptera tuss is this Coleoptera optra tuss. It's a species of plant hopping insect. Is the first living creature known to possess functional gears a new study finds?

The two interlocking gears on the insects hind legs help synchronize the legs and the animal jumps and there was a there's a Scanning micrograph of the gears here. And yep. Those are gears. Yep. Those are.

Those are gears all by accident. It's all by accident, I Mean Richard Dawkins will tell you what that it only appears To be designed it's just an appearance you know, and so this microphone it just appears to be designed and.

And these these computers and these screens. They really aren't designed they just appear to be designed. Yeah, okay. All right. Professing themselves to be wise they became fools and. There you go. All right, we're gonna take a we're gonna take a.

Can we actually take a break? I Mean, I mean do we still have old commercials we can run and pretend that. Yeah, well, let's just you know what? We need to take a break just just queue up the queue up the music and let's transition into.

Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait stop. Did y 'all see? Chelsea there's a lava lamp. My mics in the way now I can see it. I'm sorry, the mic was in the way. I got to bring it back to. I'll have to move it but somebody an Anonymous person.

I don't know who it is. Sent us a lava lamp for the new live feed and I even want one of the reasons it wasn't the primary reason actually had to take my wife to the airport today. But one of the reasons I wanted to do it a little later in today is I wanted to make sure That we had enough time because you know, lava lamps are when you first turn them on they don't do anything for like an hour but it's running it's going and.

And we appreciate our listeners or now our viewers who wanted to spice up the back there and and Get a lava lamp going. I almost wore a tie-dye shirt just to sort of fit it all together. But but I actually have to have this close enough to me that you can hear me.

Well, so I'm sorry if it actually covers up the lava lamp. Oh Yep, yep, it does. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just trying to figure out what the what the angles are. So we do have a lot I'll just have to move the lava lamp at some point.

Maybe maybe I will take a break in about 45 minutes because this is a mega so I'd like to be able to stand up and stuff maybe I can move it over and rearrange things there and. Then you can see the lava lamp, but thank you to whatever anonymous person.

It was that did that. All right, let's let's dive into radio free Damascus.

Radio Free Damascus: Islam, the Trinity, and the Deity of Christ

Many mother Christians believe that Jesus Christ peace be upon him. He was God. But if you read the Bible there is not a single unequivocal statement not a single Unambiguous statement in the complete Bible where Jesus Christ peace be upon him says.

Say that I am God always worship.

And about this business of every knee shall bow the question. Follow a little Paul. What about this business email? It says here that every knee shall bow to God. And you're saying here to the Philippians that at the Name of Jesus every knee shall bow the Paul.

The shows is his look. Don't get upset. That was just something for them. Now just fool around those Philippians.

Because Jesus said it in so many ways that he's not God you just want to stick it to him.

No matter what you're not reading your Bible. You don't read your Bible properly.

You know, God has got sons by their tongues in the Bible.

By the Tongue and now coming to you live from our underground bunker deep beneath the madrasa where Ergen Kanner was trained in jihad and Arabic.

Somewhere in Turkey or Beirut or Cairo or Ohio anyway, this is radio free Damascus. Well, welcome back you all were gone for such a long period of time there everyone loves that loves that music there for radio free Damascus.

I Was actually directed by Yusuf Ismail to a series of debates that he did with John Gilchrist on Distrust between Christians and Muslims. I really wasn't to be honest perfectly honest with you. I really didn't get the distrust part Ended up being you know, dr. Gilchrist gave some nice talks presenting You know Christian views of Islam the necessity for Christians to recognize there are different kinds of Muslims.

He joins with me. I joined with him. I guess he's been at this a lot longer than I have in decrying how many Christians refuse To recognize the difference between Muslims. It's all of Islam, you know, you look at the horrific things that happen in Nairobi Kenya or happening in Nairobi Kenya and then you just blame all Muslims for that.

Well, you can't do that at the same time. You got Muslims to try to They want the amazing thing is they want to differentiate themselves from those Muslims without theologically demonstrating Why those people are not Muslims?

That's one of the problems from my perspective. That's another issue anyway, then that would there was a Scholarly mistrust discussion and then a theological mistrust and Basically Yusuf's presentation the theological one was his standard.

These are my problems with Christianity, you know quoting Bart Ehrman John Hick all the ultra-leftist liberals Against the Christian faith and so I want to respond to some of that. Especially what Yusuf says the end and I forgot was rushing around.

I wanted to send Yusuf an email. Of course what time is it there's a 330 here. So it's 1 30 in the morning. There's it really wouldn't have made much of a difference but I Will try to remember to send one afterwards so you can get a chance to listen to this because I want to Respond to how he is finished.

I think at least two debates I've heard and mentioned a third. So this is a repetitive Statement from from Yusuf in regards to how Christians and Muslims could get together. I Want you to hear it to be able to understand Where he's coming from here now, once again I may We're sort of in limbo right now on our website.

We're hoping to launch the new one. If if anyone can resurrect just one particular person somewhere We're just sitting on pins and needles. And I'm sort of hesitating to post much more on the old website because then it's got to be moved over anyways.

But the folks down in South Africa sent me The posters that are being put up around the cities there around Johannesburg and they look really great and So I wanted to post some of them. But if especially if the new website gets up in time to do so I will I will try to put those put those up on the blog but excitement building down there certainly on my part as well so Let's let's get to it this first is from This is the end so this is the the let me see if this is yeah, this is the actual Conclusion sort of end rebuttal and conclusion to the discussion on theological distrust.

We're actually gonna go back. You know, I'm gonna go ahead and do it somewhat in in order. Let me talk about just a couple things Yusuf said in his opening and then go to the closing because that's where it has that section I want to get to.

But just a couple things I wanted to touch upon here that I think will be very helpful and then once we're done with this, I'll finish with Bashir and Then go back to Yusuf. I'm just trying to wrap up as much as I can in this last week.

So again purpose being To allow these gentlemen to have this full a knowledge of where I am coming from because I realize they debate different people there are different differences in their positions and Hopefully that will help to make the six debates in South Africa particularly useful.

But I'm definitely looking forward to meeting Yusuf. I think if everyone knows that Shabir Ali is flying down to South Africa as well. He's got pretty much as far to go as well. No, he's a little bit closer.

Not much not much in comparison to the total distance. So and I think he's could be there a little bit after I am Staying after I am. I think I get there before he does but Anyhow, let's listen to what Yusuf Ismail has to say here.

And so what we as Muslims would say, okay, obviously Obviously. Sorry Yusuf Obviously I was looking for stuff. When I try to when I go through and mark stuff I put it between 1 .6 and sometimes as high as 2 .4 speed so it just whips through and I left it at 1 .6 speed there.

So I make sure I'm gonna put them both at 1 .2 Again, so we can get through the clips a little bit faster. Man if he was that fast in the debate I'd be doomed. Of course, no one would understand what he was saying.

Anyways, but let's try this again. And so what we as Muslims would say is that in the evolution of world religions in inverted commas? Islam is the culmination the fulfillment of the teachings of all the prophets brought into one in terms of its universal outreach.

The theological distrust by and large focus on the fact that Christianity per se has digressed From the concept of the oneness of God the oneness of Allah to incorporating what we as Muslims would believe you say Accepting the divinity of Christ and this goes to the ongoing topics all the time, which we see is Jesus really God?

What do you say is Jesus God finding our particular faith? Now.

Once again, one of the key issues and and Yusuf and I are not dialoguing about this. I am with Another fellow there in in South Africa. We we will be discussing this particular subject. And that is Trinity and Tauheed.

I Think it's very important to emphasize once again That this is not a divergence from monotheism but I think most Muslims are forced to identify it as such because their ultimate authority says it is and.

So we once again are brought back to how do you get a Muslim? To consider the accuracy of His source. If you assume the Quran is accurate and everything it says even when historical fact demonstrates otherwise even when you can demonstrate what Christians believed at the time of Muhammad and and and even if you Can make the challenge as I will have to make the challenge a number of times over the next couple of weeks and That is if you're going to Argue from the basis of the Quran, which the Muslim cannot help but to do you must answer the question Why is it that the author of the Quran shows no understanding?

No understanding at all of what Christians believed in his day shows no insight into the content of the New Testament and It becomes anachronistic. When a Muslim taking that as the final authorities as well.

Well, we would accept the Injil that was given to Jesus if we could just find it. There is no historical evidence that there was anything given to Jesus. None. Not in the sense of some separate book not a single shred of historical evidence that Jesus had a Revelation that is not found and there's not a single shred of historical evidence that the author of the Quran understood that that's the point.

By taking that that position You end up forcing Anachronistically the ignorance of the author of the Quran back upon Christian history and going up got a missing book there. No, you've got someone writing 600 years later that had no first-hand knowledge of the content of the Gospels or the content of the New Testament.

That doesn't mean there's a book missing back there this means there's understanding missing at the end 600 years later in the author of the Quran and There's there's a real anachronism in the entire approach from the Islamic perspective.

That simply has to be challenged. If you're gonna say that well, you know you Christians you need to abandon these things. Well the basis upon what you're saying that if it's anachronistic if it's if it's backwards.

It's it's not a solid basis. Revolves around the fact that Christianity per se by and large has been transformed into the cult of Jesus and I'll explain why in surah 19 verses 30 to 34.

Jesus is made to say behold. I am a servant of God now listen to that. I'm I'm interested in What it means. Jesus is made to say. Jesus is made to say. Now maybe that's just a turn of phrase. I don't know.

Maybe that's just a South African way of saying Jesus said but that's almost how I would say it because I don't believe Jesus ever said these words and I would point out to Yusuf Yusuf. Look at the people you quote the people who you call Christian scholars the vast majority of them are not but The people that you find to be compelling.

They're they're primarily secularists. They're primarily naturalist materialists they they don't believe in divine revelation they would never believe in Muhammad's Going to Jerusalem on a donkey with wings etc etc but when when you Look at those individuals ask yourself a simple question the people that you're constantly citing would any single one of them Give this lightest historical credence To any of the quoted words of Jesus in the Quran you often quote skeptics.

Regarding the accuracy of the New Testament you you push the Gospels as far back. We're gonna hear here that you push John into the second century which Again, there's absolutely no reason to do that none.

You could not defend that other than saying well this scholar said that so upon what basis? I mean if if p52 is from 125 it could be as early as 100 you're saying John's written in 110. I Mean that would make that one scrap a first-generation copy.

Or one that precedes the writing of the Gospel of John which doesn't make any sense. I mean you you go with the ultra liberals, but not a single of those ultra liberals Would believe that anything that Quran says about Jesus is true.

They would not say believe a single thing that Quran says that quotes Jesus was true and every one of them would I'm sorry, but with all due respect chuckle a little bit and what the Quran at the Well what they would call the gullibility of the author of the Quran in regards to the sources he uses for the life of Jesus.

And you know what I'm talking about is his dependence upon the infancy gospel of Thomas and the Arabic infancy Gospels and Things like that they would they would laugh at the naivete of the author of the Quran.

You know that so why quote them against the New Testament when you know that the consistent application of their methodology would utterly decimate your own your own text. That's why I say I am looking for a Consistent Islamic apologist, I'm looking for one who will actually give an Islamic critique of New Testament Christianity, and I haven't met one yet.

I really haven't. Because if you're applying standards like that.

Well, it just doesn't work. I'll go back to this quote in surah 19 verses 30 to 34 Jesus is made to say behold I am a servant of God. He has vouched unto me revelation and has made me a prophet and made me bless wherever I may be and he's enjoined on me Prayer and charity as long as I live.

Peace is on me the day that I was born the day that I die and the day that I shall be raised up to life. Again, and it continues and concludes such was in the words of truth Jesus the son of Mary about whose nature they so deeply disagree.

Now it's interesting we could. I went into some depth of discussion in my book on surah 19 and The Najran discussion things that I'll leave that for the for the moment. But.

We press on that Modern-day Christian scholars. Today if you look at the Islamic belief on Jesus the recent discoveries in biblical Investigations go on to show that their conclusions are far more closer to the Islamic view of Jesus than has ever been the case now.

Who are these you know again? I have I have to challenge Shabir on this. I have to challenge Yusuf on this. Who are these scholars, I mean it would be easy for me to sit around and Cherry pick my scholars and say Islamic scholars recognize the development of the Quran over time.

They recognize the many elements of mythology in The Sunnah of Muhammad. They recognize That the change in the Qibla is a later, but I mean all I got to do is pick my scholars, and then just pluralize it and Now I've got an argument.

But I would say to anyone. I don't have a meaningful argument, and I don't have is a a weighty argument. It it really becomes tiring to me that here you've got Retreaded old liberalism being trotted out as if it's the newly discovered stuff.

What are these discoveries? All you've got really is the enshrinement of naturalistic materialism in in scholarly circles. So that there's almost no dialogue going on any longer and well We certainly can't believe what the Bible says about Jesus.