August 21, 2023 Show with A. M. Brewster on “What Christians Don’t Understand About Worship”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of Founding Father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 21st day of August 2023.

I just want to give a brief update on my older brother, Andy, who many of you have been praying for.

Andy, who resides in a local nursing home here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, developed sepsis, which is a seriously life -threatening blood contamination, and he has been on antibiotics intravenously for a number of days.

And thank the Lord, they seem to, so far, be working, and he, so far, has not declined into any more serious level of illness or closer to death's door.

I have visited him a number of times since he began the intravenous antibiotics in the nursing home and have brought food to him, specific things that he requested from restaurants.

And his appetite seems quite voracious, and that's a good sign, obviously.

And he seems coherent and sharp and only complains about being exhausted.

In fact, today, they had to give him a break on the antibiotics because there was too much in his system.

So they wanted to give him a one -day break and reevaluate when they're going to restart the intravenous antibiotics tomorrow.

So please keep my brother in your prayers and also keep not only his physical condition in your prayers, but also his spiritual condition.

I really do not have total peace and confidence where he stands with the Lord. He does give some evidence that he may be, indeed, a true child of God, but it is not very consistent, and it leaves me sometimes baffled and troubled.

So I would appreciate you praying that the Lord saves him in such a way that his profession of faith is crystal clear and completely believable.

And I will give you all updates on my brother

Andy in the nursing home in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Today, we have returning to the program one of my favorite guests.

He's actually a regularly featured guest here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. His name is

A .M. Brewster. I know he's not only a favorite of mine, but a favorite guest of a growing number of our listeners who tell me so via email and social media.

He is president of Evermind Ministries. He is a biblical counselor, author, podcaster, and conference speaker.

And today, we are going to be addressing what Christians don't understand about worship. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, A .M.

Brewster. I am super excited to be here today because, first of all,

I love being on your show. I love your audience, and anytime I get a chance to interact with them. But I also really, really, really love this topic because it is so desperately seminal to the

Christian life. So I love talking about this every opportunity I get. I praise God. Well, once again, for the sake of those listeners who may be listening for the first time or for some other reason, they have not yet had a chance to hear you on the show, tell them about Evermind Ministries.

Yeah, so Evermind Ministries is a family of ministries that has one main mission, to keep

God's truth at the center of the human experience. And many of you have heard me say frequently that our human experience from day to day is very robust.

Today alone, I have been a Christian. I have been a son, a husband, a father.

I've been a friend. I've been an employee. I'm an interview guest right now.

And God's truth needs to be at the center of all of those. It's really easy to go to church and have

God's truth at the center of our church experience. And it's also easy at different times to intentionally have him in the middle of different experiences.

For example, Chris, you're mentioning your brother. I've been following what you've been saying on social media.

And in situations of high stress, oftentimes it's very easy to have

God at the center of that. It's really intentional. But what about all those other times?

What about the times that we're not intentionally thinking about having him there?

So, with that said, whether it's truth, love, family, trying to keep God's truth at the center of your family and marriage experience, or the celebration of God, which is all about personal discipleship, or Faith Tree Biblical Counseling and Discipleship, which is about working with people who are in need of crisis biblical counseling, as well as the discipleship in their lives.

And then my traveling and speaking ministry, all of those are designed to help us to keep

God's truth intentionally there. And so, I encourage people to check out evermindministries .com.

That's evermind, not nevermind. We want to always find God's truth. But check out evermindministries .com.

Download our free app, lots of free information on there, including a bunch of resources to supplement yours and my discussion today on that app.

And they can download the app by going to the website, and they'll see links for it there. And learn more about the ministry and learn more about how our ministry can minister to you, to your family, to your church, congregation, your school, camp, whatever the case may be.

And I'm going to tell a joke, a follow -up joke to Aaron's mention, a clarification that his ministry is not

Nevermind Ministries. I'm going to tell a joke that I have a feeling

Aaron will have no idea what I'm talking about, since he's so much younger than I am. But Nevermind Ministry, of course, would be the ministry of Emily Latilla.

Now, if you don't know... Oh, I don't get that joke. No, you'll have to explain it to me. Are you laughing at me, or are you laughing at the joke?

I don't know. Both, actually. Okay, okay. Back in the days when Saturday Night Live was actually funny, in the 70s, there was one of the comedians who was host of that program called, or named,

Gilda Radner. She is deceased for quite a number of years, sadly. A brilliant comedian.

And she did a character on the news called Emily Latilla. And what it would be is that Emily would misunderstand the wording of a certain, perhaps, controversial issue that had arose in current events.

And she would get the wording completely wrong to mean completely something else.

And right now, I can't even think of an example. But after she would go on and on and on about this situation that would be completely in error,

Chevy Chase, the fellow anchorman, would look at her and say... He would correct her and tell her that, basically, what she was saying was completely wrong.

And she would end her spot on the program by saying, never mind.

But anyway... And no doubt. From that era. And that era is before my introduction to SNL.

But no doubt, from that era, it was very hilarious. But no, we don't want to do that. We don't want to never mind this.

We want to ever mind it. Ever mind it. And give our listeners all of the websites they need.

Sure, yeah. Well, Ever Mind Ministries will send you to all the other ones. But there is TruthLoveFamily .com,

which is also the same as TruthLoveParent .com. Then there is CelebrationOfGod .com,

FaithTreeBiblicalCounseling .com. And it's also AMBrewster .com.

But again, you can find all of those from EverMindMinistries .com. We have social media you guys can connect with.

And we have lots of different ways of you getting in touch with us. If you'd like us to do a training event, speak, or just access our resources.

And we're trying to make all of that also accessible on the Ever Mind app. You can go to the App Store or the

Google Play Store. And you can download the Ever Mind app. But I always encourage people to do it from the website first.

Because that lets you create your login. And gives you the most robust experience with the app.

And so I encourage people to do that. Because I'm really hoping that all of those resources and ways of connecting with us.

And all of that truth there that we need to have at the center of our experience will be accessible there from the app.

Great. And we have a listener in Alabama who is correcting me on the pronunciation of.

I thought I was saying Emily LaTella. What was I saying? But it's LaTella according to this listener.

Emily LaTella. All right. All right. I can't. I can't. No. Sure. Then he said, I don't even understand why he says

LaTella with an E as in Edward. When there's no. I don't know. Anyway. Appreciate it, though.

Appreciate it. Yes. Well, the issue at hand. I have addressed the issue of worship many times in this program.

Because it is such a bone of contention even among evangelical

Christians who may be in the same denomination, fellowship. They may be in theological harmony with each other about nearly everything.

They may even be Reformed Baptist or some other Reformed group where they agree with each other in every jot and tittle except for worship.

And specifically that very often involves the music in the worship.

But there is even disagreement over the manner of preaching. There are those that believe that it is completely acceptable to have as a routine in their church topical preaching rather than expository preaching where an entire book of the

Bible is preached upon verse by verse by verse until it's complete.

And then they'll move on to another book of the Bible. There is a difference over the seriousness over that difference.

And we could go on and on and on. But I'm interested what you have to say today about what Christians don't understand about worship.

Maybe it's going to be you'll be revealing some things that I don't understand about worship. So tell us in a preface form where you're going here.

Sure. Yeah. Well, I like you, you know, we encounter lots of people and almost everybody has their own seven different versions and definitions of what worship is.

I think that it's safe to say, maybe from my limited experience, but as other people

I've spoken with them, I think it's safe to say that the majority of professing

Christians in the world today, when the word worship is kicked out, the very first thing that comes to their mind would be specifically the singing that occurs during a quote -unquote worship service or while listening to quote -unquote worship music.

And I say that because as I encounter the word worship with people face -to -face, online, that is almost always, the vast majority of the time, that word worship is attached to this idea of worship music, worship service, singing, and so on and so forth.

I do believe, though, that many of those same people would also categorize praying. They would put praying under worship, for sure.

But then there's also this kind of just, this really broad category, this vague feeling, this quasi -esoteric experience.

I was once listening to a preacher talking about Zacharias's job that he was doing in the temple right before the angel came to him to tell him about the birth of John, his son.

And he was kind of describing what the priest would do in that moment as they were fulfilling those responsibilities.

And he described it in good detail, but then he just basically said, and then he would stand there and worship.

But the preacher gave no explanation at all. I mean, he explained in great detail everything that Zacharias had to do to fulfill his responsibility in the temple on that day.

But this concept of just worship was just this very esoteric, touchy -feely experience.

That's all that really communicated from the pulpit. Now, that's one kind of segment of people, and I think, again,

I see that a lot. The next segment of people I see, really, they would kind of agree with that, maybe not in totality, but they would at least, if nothing else, add to that list.

They would recognize that beyond just a mere experience, and though, yes, it might include and probably would include singing and praying, they would want to add

Bible reading to the list. They would want to add attending, paying attention during the preaching.

And then other overt acts of Christian disciplines, like caring for the needy, the one and others, and so on.

But even that list itself, I believe, is exceptionally lacking. And I think that if we had a bunch of Christians, genuinely born -again believers in a room, and we were compiling a list of worship, we would have lots of things.

That would include singing and praying, but we would also have preaching and sharing the gospel and so on and so forth.

And the question is, where does that list end? Or are there things that shouldn't be on that list?

And I believe that, you know, when I suggested that the topic for today's discussion be what

Christians don't understand about worship, I'm going to suggest that what they really don't understand is the depth and the breadth and the totality that is worship.

We understand segments and facets of it, but we don't really understand the totality of it. And because we don't understand the totality of it,

I believe we fail in it more so than we realize we do. Great.

And there are people, many people, and perhaps a smaller percentage would be those who are

Reformed, but they do exist amongst Calvinist Christians, those who believe in the doctrines of grace, sovereign grace, those who consider themselves

Reformed, at least soteriologically, that believe that there is being an exaggerated emphasis on the differences that exist amongst

Christians over worship. There are some that believe that there is such a radical contrast and change from the

Old to New Covenant, where in the Old Covenant, it was such a rigid thing that Nadab and Abihu, as everyone who has got at least a cursory knowledge of the

Old Testament, will remember that these young men offered strange fire to the

Lord in worship. They were using a different form of incense or something, and perhaps with nothing but the most innocent of motives, but they were disobeying the

Lord, and they were consumed with fire and killed by God himself. So, obviously, the rigidity of the

Old Covenant worship was great, and some, and perhaps in the opinion of many of our listeners, some who are

Christians have gone too far in their understanding of liberty in worship, so far that they believe that anything that is not sin is acceptable in a worship service.

And, of course, you have every level of difference in between those extremes.

If you could let us know what your thoughts are on that and if you have seen and heard that same kind of argument.

Yeah, definitely. I want to say from the outset that I would love to answer specific questions, obviously, from you and from your guests as they have them and as they deal with certain facets and little splinters of this concept of worship as a whole.

At the same time, I think my big passion for today is to make certain that we get to that totality concept because a lot of things that you've mentioned, even in your question, do, it is worship.

It obviously has to do with worship. But there's so much more than just questions about styles of preaching and the clothes we wear when we go to church and the songs that we sing and things like that, that really, for the most,

I mean, a lot of these things, again, if we just limit it to a Sunday morning service or Sunday evening or the totality of the day, we are cutting off a large section of the rest of our week.

Is worship happening then? How does worship happen then? What should it look like when it happens then? So, anyway, I just want to say that, yes,

I'd love to answer the specifics, but I also think getting, stepping back and getting the big picture will, in a way, help to answer those specifics as well.

Now, to your question, yes, I definitely have come amongst people who would say, and I think they rightfully point out that the formal, what

I'm going to refer to as formal worship, we could call it corporate worship of the Old Testament, was very different, is very different from the

New Testament formal slash corporate worship that we see. I do agree with that observation.

However, what I disagree with is that, A, that God has changed.

He has not. His expectations, though they may change, the core, the why behind the expectations stay the same because God himself does not change.

So, yes, modern Gentile Christians have no, well, even Jewish Christians have no need to continue with the

Old Testament sacrificial system. There's one key element that I would say specifically within the context of corporate formal worship that remains.

Everything, you mentioned Nahab and Abihu. I'd like to go back to Cain and that sacrifice that he offered to God with his brother

Abel. So, what we see consistently from Genesis all the way through Revelation is that there is an expectation from God about the quality of the worship.

Quality specifically might look like an unblemished lamb, the right kind of animal, an unblemished animal of the right age, no broken bones, no spots, things like that.

It can look like that extreme, but then it can also be on the other extreme where it's an expectation that as I, a

Gentile New Testament believer, worship God with my daily sacrifice, that it's a totality.

It's not that I can segment it out. So, I think one big thing that really kind of controls how

I look at worship, whether it's in corporate worship or personal worship, is this idea of God's extremely high expectation of what

I'm going to call simply perfection. Because he does expect and has expected that obedience and obedience is doing the right thing in the right way for the right reason and in the right power.

If the thing is not done in that way for those reasons and in that power, it is not acceptable to him.

It never has been acceptable to him. And this is one of the big topics of conversation we have to discuss today is, okay, so what is that motivation?

How do I approach – what is worship and then how do I need to always approach it? Because if I don't approach it the right way, it doesn't matter what

I'm doing, it's not going to be okay. Okay, we're going to our first commercial break right now. If you have a question for A .M.

Brewster, the email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, such as your question involves a critique or disagreement or difference you have with the church where you happen to be a member.

We would understand that would compel you to remain anonymous. But if it's just a general question, please give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

We'll be right back with A .M. Brewster after these messages, so don't go away. The Debate Topic Is gay

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Brewster, and we are continuing our conversation on what Christians don't understand about worship.

If you could, for those of our listeners who are tuning in late, give a recap summary of exactly what you mean by the totality of worship.

Yep. So, there are three main points I want to kind of get to today. The definition of worship, the danger of worship, and the details of worship.

When it comes right down to it, our understanding of worship is actually too detailed.

What I should say is that it's not that you can be too detailed in your worship, but that our big picture of worship is limited to just the tiny details.

And the idea of worship is so much bigger than that. It is so encompassing.

And when we limit it to those details, like, you know, well, worship is singing a quote -unquote worship song, and we say that's worship.

That is technically accurate, but by limiting it to that, we are missing the power and the dynamic nature.

And this is part of the danger of worship, is that when we limit it like that, we're putting ourselves in a very dangerous position where all of the areas where we're limiting it, and we shouldn't be, we're failing in those areas to worship

God there. So, we need to have the big picture, and we need to understand what worship is in its totality so that when we do focus in on the specifics, those various experiences of the human existence where we want to worship

God and give Him the preeminence, that we're actually doing so in a correct way, and we're not missing out because we've segmented our lives.

Well, that was worship over there, but this over here isn't worship, and so on and so forth. Okay, well, let's go into some of these important steps that you were just discussing.

Awesome. Pleasure. Here we go. So, I'm going to start with the definition. Now, hang with me here, because no doubt,

I know, Chris, you and your audience are, again, you've talked about this a lot. If something sounds familiar, good.

Let it be one of those reminders that, you know, the Lord decided that it was timely for us to be reminded of this. If this is new information, then listen carefully, and if you're listening to it and you're disagreeing with it, we'll throw a question out to Chris, because I love the questions where they challenge things that I've said.

But for those of us, I use the New American Standard Bible myself, and the English word worship shows up over 120 times in that translation.

By the way, when are you going to do an ad for the NASB for me? I know, they send you one of those little clips, you know, my name is

Aaron Brewster, and I, yeah. But in each of those instances, I believe that we can really, it can help us to better understand what

God means when he uses the word. I also believe, and if you've been following me at all on my podcast, you know that when

God inspired the Bible, he chose to use the Hebrew and Greek and the Aramaic for a reason. And though I don't say that those languages are inherently better at communicating the truth of God than English is, it is just a fact that God didn't wait until English was invented before writing the

Bible. So, therefore, you, if you've listened to the podcast, know that I believe that a good Bible translation is going to try to find the best

English word to communicate the word from the original language. However, that's sometimes hard to do.

It's hard to find the English equivalent that does the original word justice, because as somebody, I speak two languages fluently, one language quasi -fluently, and two other languages not so well at all.

But as a translator of American Sign Language, I recognize that there are some

English words that you can't really easily translate into American Sign Language and vice versa. You mean sign language for the deaf or for Italians?

For the deaf, for the deaf, for sure. On my

Truth Love Parent podcast, I did a seven -part study on biblical love simply because some of the concepts of biblical love cannot be summed up in the

English word love, and we just don't have the same understanding and breadth and depth of understanding in our

English word love as the Greeks did. So, we need to start by looking at, I think, just some of the original words.

I'm just going to pick a few out here, just a little bit from the New Testament, a little bit from the Old Testament. We'll start with the Old. In Genesis 22 .5,

this is where we find the first use of the English word worship. Abraham told his servants, stay here with the donkey.

I and the boy will go over there and worship and come again to you. Now, the word that Abraham was using gave the picture of something being depressed, something being pushed down, bowed over, prostrated, or falling down flat.

In fact, the only other times that this Hebrew word, which is translated worship in this passage, is used before Genesis 22 .5,

they're actually both translated bowed, and they refer to somebody physically bowing down before a guest who was approaching them.

So, the connotative imagery obviously reveals that people really only prostrate themselves before things that they believe are superior to them or things that deserve honor in such a way.

It's really, if you think about it, the most humbling physical stance a person can take. You're on the dirt.

You're completely at their mercy because you're indefensible at that moment, especially if you're face down. And the act is designed to communicate that I submit to you in one way or another.

It can be as an act of divine worship or it can be a respectful greeting, and we see many uses of the word in the scriptures specifically in this way.

And for the most part, bowing down in many cultures today still communicates the same idea. Now, there are also, that's the

Old Testament, but there are also a couple of Greek words of note. One of them doesn't necessarily refer to bowing down as it does any number of specifically religious ceremonies.

That one is used four times in the New Testament. But there's another word that's used 60 times and has more in common with the

Hebrew word that I just talked about. This word has the idea of falling or crouching, prostrating oneself in homage to another.

It also can sometimes refer to kissing another's hand and any other act that showed reverence and respect.

And then, so that's just a quick, really brief overview of the two main words in the

Bible that are oftentimes translated worship, but it's also wise for us to acknowledge that the English word worship, as we use it today, is a derivative of an earlier word, which many of your listeners no doubt recognize as being the word worthship, the

English word worthship. The English Oxford Dictionary defines worthship as, quote, the condition of being worthy or deserving, unquote.

Therefore, we can say that worship, and I believe it's really appropriate to say this from the

Hebrew, the Greek, and the English, worship in its most simple concept communicates worth.

But unlike those four Greek words, those four times that one Greek word shows up in the

New Testament which is referring specifically to a religious ceremony or event of some kind, this idea of worship is way broader than that.

It is simply communicating worth. And in a way, we could say that any time we place value in something, we are worshipping it.

Now, in our English language, we don't use the word that way. You know, I value things. I use the example that, you know,

I don't mind tossing somebody something, a ball. I don't mind tossing somebody even something that's not designed to be thrown around.

But, you know, you're going to toss your phone. Okay, I'm a little less comfortable doing that. I'm going to toss my laptop.

I'm going to toss my newborn infant. Probably not, right? There are things, $100 ,000 violin, not going to toss it, right?

Why? Because I value it. So I just learned that you value the violin more than the infant.

Well, you know, I toss my kid up into the air, but I'm not going to toss it to somebody else.

That's true. Actually, yeah, I probably needed to put that in a different order. But the thing is, it's true.

In that moment, I'm valuing the child. I'm valuing the worth of the instrument. I'm valuing the cost of the technology, and so therefore

I'm treating it differently. And it is appropriate to say, to utilize the word, worship in that way.

Now, I don't usually utilize the word worship in that way, unless I'm trying to make a point. Because I think we need to be careful lest we give the wrong impression as we're talking with people.

But it is an appropriate way to use the word. So whether I'm prostrating myself before a tribal warlord, who

I'm hoping is not going to kill me, or I'm dedicating hours to washing and waxing my sports car,

I am communicating in all of those actions value. If I will watch a sporting event for hours and hours, but complain that the sermon went past 12 o 'clock,

I'm communicating how much value those things have for me.

Now, I've said this a lot, but Ken Collier's observation that there are just two choices on the shelf, pleasing

God or pleasing self, is at the crux of our understanding of worship. In fact, we could say there are just two choices on the shelf, worshipping

God or worshipping self, valuing God or valuing self. A while back,

I did an episode for Truth Love Parent called, Is Your Child Addicted? And the next word in that title was, yes, with an exclamation point.

I think it'd be a great lesson for anyone who wants to continue studying this concept today. But I'll sum it up this way. Every child is addicted, period.

And so are you, and so am I. Most fundamentally, we are addicted to ourselves.

I'm not going to take the time to support that claim right here, right now. We need to move on. You'll have to listen to the other episode. But let's just, for the moment, let's move on as if that claim is true, because it is.

If I'm addicted to my own pleasure and satisfaction, then it would be less accurate to say that I worship ice cream than it is to say that I worship myself via ice cream, or I worship myself with ice cream.

And I think this is a big hang -up in modern American Christians. We have, you know, we've all heard the sermons, and I've mentioned this on the show before, that warn us against worshipping sports and money and popularity and sex and the like, because we picture people bowing down to stone images, and it just seems preposterous that anybody, specifically a

Christian, would actually have a stone altar set up and have a car or chocolate or money on it and be bowing down before it.

And I think what gets us messed up in our understanding is that the reality is that the people who bow down before actual idols are really doing the exact same thing as the people who are addicted to drugs or fame or money, because those two people are communicating to everyone around them that the idol or the car or the sport or the money or the relationship or the popularity is valuable to them.

They're communicating by how they live their lives, that this thing in front of them has significant worth to them. But this is where we need to be careful.

We need to take the understanding a step further, because I'm also communicating that those things are not only valuable to me, but they're valuable for a higher reason.

The idol in itself, for somebody in a pagan culture bowing down before a piece of stone or wood, the idol really isn't the end all to end all.

The scriptures make this point very often. Some guy chops on a tree from the same tree he carves an idol, but then he uses part of that same tree and he burns it in the fire to cook his meal.

Okay? Even that person recognizes that the idol that isn't necessarily inherently more special is the piece of wood.

And so, neither is the car or the sex or the good grades. They really aren't the god being served.

The god being served in those instances really is self. The popularity, the control, the perfect body, the beautiful house, all those religious rituals are actually the sacrifices that the worshiper offers to themselves.

Those are the things that make them happy. Even if it's, again, even if it's a stone image, that person is choosing to worship that because they believe that is what's best for them.

And ultimately, their god is themselves. Now, Paul David Tripp has mentioned quite often, and so has

John Calvin and so on and so forth, that we are worshiping machines, right?

We are created to worship. And we recognize that from a definitional standpoint.

But practically, functionally, we don't really get it. I don't believe that we function the way we should on a day -to -day basis.

And this is where I'm kind of like looking at my notes here and I'm realizing I want to jump over some things.

I might come back to it later. For example, you know, the very passage we've already referenced, Romans 12, 1 -2, talking about what our reasonable act of worship is, what is our spiritual worship.

It's to present our bodies as a living sacrifice, wholly acceptable to God. But the thing I want to get to, the focus

I want to get to that we need to understand is this. Everything we do, whether it's good or bad, for God or not for God, intentionally or unintentionally, everything we do, from the socks you are wearing to the food that goes into your mouth, to the things you say when you're driving, to the movies that you watch on the weekend, everything that you say, every action, everything that you buy, is an act of worship.

Everything. It's not just the song you sing that's called worship music to God. It's the songs you sing that are playing on the popular radio station.

That is worship too. And the danger of worship is this.

When we compartmentalize our lives and we focus on this, quote -unquote, worship of God being these esoteric experiences, or it's just times of praying and Bible reading, and it's the songs that we sing, we might be getting those things right.

But what about all of the other things, the milieu of things, the thousands of things that you do in a day that you're not thinking of as being worship?

And I'm going to argue the huge danger here is that, yes, we sit around and we argue contemporary

Christian music or more traditional music. I'll just be transparent right off the bat here.

I'm a traditional music guy. I'm not a huge fan of contemporary Christian music for lots of reasons. But I'm also honest enough to say that I believe it is possible for a person to listen to contemporary

Christian music and truly worship God in that moment. I do believe it's possible. Not for me, but I believe it can be for some people.

So, even in – we spend so much time disagreeing about how we worship and some of these things. We have these arguments and so on and so forth.

Some of them are more valid than others. But in so doing, we're not having the conversation about how we're dressing and how we're treating our cashier and how we're treating that telemarketer and how we're responding when our technology doesn't work and what we do when we stub our toes or find out that we have a diagnosis.

We're not talking about that at all within the context of worship. And because we're not talking about that within the context of worship, it's not even on our minds.

We just go through life and we experience those things, and we're not thinking about whether or not at this moment

I'm worshiping God or I'm worshiping self. Now, I can go on and on about this, but I don't know where we are in the show and what other questions you might have.

What do you want me to do? Do you want me to continue or would you get something for me? Well, we are going to a break in about 90 seconds, so I think

I should hold off, obviously, to reading any listener questions. And we might as well enter into the break now to avoid interrupting you in mid -sentence.

So, folks, please remember to be patient because the middle break is a bit longer than the other breaks in the show because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

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Don't go away. We'll be right back with A .M. Brewster right after these messages from our sponsors. The Mid -Atlantic

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Head to futureofchristendom .org. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

G3 National Conference. That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd, on a theme that I've been preaching, teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

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Chris Arnzen, I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd at the

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It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners from all over the world.

Here's Joe Reilly, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Reilly, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland.

Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is

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Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards and Dr.

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Joe O 'Reilly, Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener, and Mattai in County Kildare, Ireland send you.

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Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous Bible church. It strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our

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If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air. Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade.

Do you know what they all have in common? They all require training, assessments, and certifications. But do you know what requires no training at all?

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Solid -ground -books .com is a premier, a primary, a vital sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and they are going through an extremely difficult time with a plummeting of book sales at the moment.

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Please mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio when making your purchase today. Before I return to A .M.

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Please go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now. Also, I want to remind you about the three -day conference coming up with James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.

This is the Future of Christendom Conference being run by Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society, September 15th, 16th, and 17th.

It's a Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And those three days will also feature a debate that Dr.

White is having with Dr. Gregory Coles on the theme, Is Gay Christian a

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Everything is free, not only your meal and your opportunity to hear Jeff Noblitt preach and your opportunity to have fellowship with colleagues in ministry from all over the

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and put pastor's luncheon in the subject line. Last but not least, if you are not a member of a Bible -believing, doctrinally sound church, no matter where in the world you live,

I may be able to help you find a church, as I have done with many people in the Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio audience globally, sometimes even within just a couple of minutes from where they live.

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I Need a Church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to A .M.

Brewster on what Christians don't understand about worship, chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com. We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who says,

Some of what you said sounds similar to the excuses or the apologetic that Roman Catholic apologists use in defense of bowing down to popes and to bishops and to images of Mary and saints, and they say that the word worship is something similar to what you said, it's just giving great reverence.

And I was wondering how you differentiate your definition of that with how the

Church of Rome uses that as an excuse for idolatry. Yeah, great question.

First of all, we have to make the observation that within a European slash

American context, bowing is something that really gets relegated primarily to a religious type of a setting when we're thinking about things using words like worship.

Whereas in other countries, bowing is still, you know, it's similar to a handshake.

It's actually more than a handshake as a way of greeting people, showing honor and respect as, you know, as a good strong handshake has been historically for a lot of us.

So, there is a context, and I'm a martial artist, so I still, we use bowing within the classroom, we use bowing in many different situations to communicate that, and there are different types of bows for different situations that communicate different levels of respect and honor.

And so, I just want to put that out there that that is a thing, right? So, I think, you know, for example, though as an

American meeting an American president, I wouldn't bow to him. I would still honor him and respect his position and title, even if I don't necessarily respect the man himself.

I would shake his hand, I would be respectful to him in the way that I spoke. And so, to a certain degree, if the culture allows for a bow to be part of that, that's no more sacrilegious than being respectful to them in culturally appropriate ways for an

American. With that said, the Roman Catholic Church is wrong in what they're doing because it's not just showing respect to a pope.

In their belief statements, they believe that these individuals are worthy of worship that we know is only truly to be given to God.

And that is the main problem there is that it's not just a cultural way of showing polite respect or reverence to a person as it was in the

Old Testament times and even the New Testament times in the Middle East. It is something far greater than that which the

Bible forbids be given to a person or to anyone other than God himself.

So, to that degree, I agree with you that what they're doing is wrong, but there's a huge gap between what they're suggesting and what

I'm suggesting outside of the cultural aspects of it. And just a couple of things. The Roman Catholics are, without question, worshiping saints and images such as statues, icons, paintings, regardless of their defense of what they are doing as not being worship but merely veneration.

The reason is because what they do meets the definition of worship. And the

Second Commandment specifically forbids bowing to an object that uses that word.

So there is no defense in any way, shape, or form of bowing to an object.

And the Roman Catholics have played fast and loose with the Ten Commandments and have really removed in some of their

English documents that aspect of the commandment.

So they are really playing fast and loose. They're not fooling anybody who's biblically literate and has the

Holy Spirit within them. But anyway, have you something to add?

Well, I would agree 100 % with what you said. However, I do want to just acknowledge the fact that there is a little bit of a difficulty.

So, for example, you referenced the fact that in Exodus chapter 20, it says, and so on and so forth.

And when it says, you shall not worship them or serve them, that word worship is the word that we are looking at in Genesis 22 .5,

which is referring to what Abraham and Isaac were going to go do as they gave their sacrifice on the mountain.

However, that word worship is also the same word that's used to refer to people greeting other people, bowing down to other individuals.

Sometimes as an act of worship that should only be given to God, and sometimes as a culturally appropriate way of bowing down on the ground to greet somebody.

And I'm so glad this came up because this is one of the key things. This is so important that we understand this.

In worship, it's not just the what. It absolutely, positively, all of the time needs to be the why.

So, in Philippians 3 .17, we read this, and we recognize that as being wrong.

However, what if the person's belly desires that which externally looks good?

What if they're doing what's right in their own eyes, but what's right in their own eyes is exactly, from an external perspective, what the

Bible says you should be doing. Does it please the Lord? And fundamentally, we understand that it doesn't because we know about the

Pharisees. The Pharisees were doing really good things. They were trying to have pure lives, and they didn't want to leave any room whatsoever for transgressing

God's law. The problem wasn't the what, and the problem wasn't necessarily even the how. The problem was the why.

Now, there was another problem, the fact that they were saying that their man -made rules were on par with God's rules. Now, obviously, it was a huge issue, but it was the why.

They were saying this is more important than what God has commanded in his word because it's what we want to do.

It's what we believe is necessary. So, this understanding of recognizing the place of this worship is huge.

I once encountered a man who told me that he struggled with porn and adultery because he believed that he worshipped the female form.

That's how he put it. He worshipped the female form. But I had to tell him that he was mistaken, that what he was actually doing was offering the female form as a sacrifice to his own flesh, his own belly, what was right in his own eyes.

Okay? Now, but again, we do that exact same thing when sometimes we put our piety, our church attendance, the type of worship service that we have, the type of preaching we have, and we make that something that is done, really, it's pleasing ourselves, it's glorifying ourselves.

Even though the thing that we're doing is good, are we really worshipping God in that moment? And so, I mentioned

Romans 12, 1 and 2 earlier. God is saying that our spiritual worship is that we offer ourselves, all that we have, all that we say, do, and feel to God as a sacrifice.

We shouldn't be sacrificing anything to ourselves. There's no leftovers that we say, okay,

I'm going to sacrifice this to myself. So, and then we're actually, we're supposed to give the totality of ourselves.

So, that is our reasonable act of worship, considering what he's done for us. But then verse 2 tells us what this daily sacrifice looks like.

He says, So, our daily sacrifice of worship is supposed to look like our conformity to the will of God.

And it doesn't limit those marks to the religious ceremonies we do during our service. It's everything we do in every part of our lives.

So, the things in our lives that prove that we're offering ourselves on the altar to God are the love, righteousness, zeal, rejoicing, patience, prayer, hospitality, and the list goes on and on and everything that comes next in the passage.

So, here's the point, like I said earlier, everything is an act of worship, but this is where it gets difficult. I already talked about the fact that we can work of ourselves with our cars, we can invest heavily in our vehicles, right?

And we may be doing that because we enjoy the satisfaction we receive from having a nice car.

Or we may be investing in our cars because we're trying to be good stewards of the gifts God has given us.

And this is another reason I think it's confusing to refer to worship as a thing that we do. We may very well value an object, but the more important question is why we value the object so much.

Some people value their children as a blessing and stewardship from God. Others value their children as a status symbol or guarantee of future care.

It's not the fact that a person believes their food has value. We all think food has value. The question is where are they investing that value?

Placing their food on the altar to God for His honor and glory as they steward their health and wellness, or are they investing in their own pleasure and satisfaction?

So, this is where we get into a ton of trouble and it comes back to a squishy understanding of worship.

Yes, worship is bowing down before something, but why are you doing it?

Are you doing it as a cultural greeting to show somebody the respect that's appropriately communicated in that action?

Or are you doing it in disobedience to Exodus 20 chapter 5 where you're doing it as something more?

You're giving that object or that individual or that thing something that only God deserves. What is the why behind your what?

This is the breadth and totality of worship. Everything we do has a why.

And when we get to the center of that why, we find out that we're doing it because, well, I want to. It makes me feel good.

I like it. And that's really the essence of why I'm doing this otherwise good thing. I am worshiping self and I'm sitting against God and we can argue all we want about preaching styles and song styles, but then the rest of the week we're just worshiping ourselves.

What good is it anyway? And it is clear that the

Roman Catholic, and, of course, I can't speak for every single Roman Catholic in the world, but the way that the

Roman Catholic dogmatically defines the veneration of objects, that is included with a whole bunch of other beliefs and actions and ceremonies and rites that involve these objects that are pure superstition and pure idolatry, objects that keep you safe from illness and in battle and on and on.

It is clear that the Roman Catholic Church, according to their dogma, is viewing the object not more than giving it some kind of a customary outward expression of respect or something like that.

Generally speaking, that would be true. Patrick Madrid, Roman Catholic apologist, tried to alleviate the sting of idolatry from venerating objects during a debate he was having with Dr.

James R. White on the theme of venerating saints and objects and images.

He brought up the fact that very often even an evangelical Christian, if he's going on a trip somewhere, may pull a framed little photo of his wife out of the suitcase, or perhaps he pulls it out of his wallet, a little photo of his wife in the wallet or his children or his grandchildren, and may kiss that and place it on his nightstand.

He used that as the same action for when they bow down to and kiss statues of Mary, for instance, and that's ridiculous because Patrick Madrid knows that even the

Catholic Church would say it was heretical for somebody to believe that that photo of their wife or child or grandchildren had some kind of supernatural presence about it.

Sure, but I would still ask the question, and I agree with you, I agree with what you're saying and your disagreement with this other gentleman, but I would still ask the question, why are we kissing the photo?

There could be any number of reasons. A million people could all kiss the photo for various reasons. Some people, though, deep down inside, they don't really give a lot of thought to it.

They do it simply because they've seen a bunch of other people do it and it's just what they were taught to do. Other people do it because they honestly believe that it has value, that it's necessary.

There are people who think to themselves, if I don't kiss this photo before I go to bed, they feel uneasy.

They can't put their finger on why, but it's just wrong if they don't do it, right? It's going to come down to the why, because no doubt, yeah, a person could be traveling and kiss a photo of their wife.

To be honest, to me that sounds ridiculous. I'm pressing my lips up against my phone to do an image of my wife.

She's not experiencing it. It doesn't mean anything to her. What am I actually getting at? For me, Aaron Brewster, it seems totally dumb.

If somebody else were to do that, I'm not saying it's wrong, but what I am saying is this, is why are we doing it? And the problem is that we as humans, we flip through life with our brains turned off.

We're not really intentionally, carefully considering the why behind what we do. And we do so many things over the course of a day without really grappling with the why.

And what I argue all the time is that you're never going to accidentally glorify

God. If you're doing something without conscious thought to how this pleases the

Lord and how this is being done for His glory and that this is being done as an act of faith, trust that this action, this thing, this feeling, this thing that I'm saying or doing is going to please the

Lord, then you're going to be doing it for self. It's just what's right in your own eyes. It's the thing that feels right to do in the next moment.

And it really has more to do with self than it does with God. And this is where I want to call Christians to a broader understanding of worship.

Yes, by all means, fight the worship war. Yes, I think that there are – God has very high expectations for our corporate worship, right?

And I think we need to have those conversations. But if we're only ever talking about corporate worship and we're never talking about the specifics of how we can worship

God when we're cooking food and watching TV and playing games and driving down the road, then really we're missing out on the vast majority of our worship.

I mean, so much – way more of our lives are lived in personal worship than they are in corporate worship.

And we need to have those conversations abundantly more. In fact, all of my biblical counseling is done within that context of that personal worship of day -to -day, how we can worship

God better. Let me just ask you a final question so we can move on from that whole area specifically about Roman Catholic idolatry.

Sure, yeah. My mom, although she made it clear before she departed the earth from pancreatic cancer, she made it clear that she had renounced veneration of saints and images and was trusting solely in Christ and his finished work on Calvary for her salvation.

She made it clear that she was going to heaven. Good. Awesome. However, she never in any official way denounced being a

Roman Catholic. She denounced their teaching in that area of salvation but did not denounce being a

Roman Catholic. And therefore, my father, who was Catholic, he had been an actual convert decades before from Episcopalianism.

He had my mother's funeral in a Roman Catholic church. They permitted me to get up and say a few words, eulogize her.

My older brother, John, who's now in heaven, did a lengthier eulogy.

I actually just read the scriptures. That's what it was. And they had a woman who was assigned to you to coach you through the protocol of what you're supposed to do.

And she told me that when we get up to the pulpit,

I'm supposed to face the monstrance, which is where they keep the

Eucharist, the blessed Eucharist's wafers, bread, whatever.

And I was to bow, and there's no way I was bowing to that. She bowed.

I kept my back more rigidly straight than I probably ever have in my life.

To make it clear to everyone, I'm not bound to that. Are you saying that there's any reason why bowing to that would have been acceptable for somebody else to do it?

I personally don't think there would be any legitimate reason for a Christian to bow when everybody in that place would know that that was an act of venerating, or actually in this case, worshiping, because they believe that Christ is physically present in that monstrance.

So it's even beyond veneration in their minds. That is an act of worship to that monstrance.

Well, and you summed it up. It's what it's communicating. Everyone there is going to interpret that for what it is.

It's exactly why Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego couldn't bow down before Nebuchadnezzar's thing.

It wasn't just that lying face down on the ground is wrong. It's not.

It's not wrong to lie face down on the ground. It's not even that lying face down on the ground with something, facing something is wrong.

We all lie down on our beds and we're facing something. It's that that was going to communicate to everyone else around that I'm doing exactly what the king told me to do, and what the king told me to do was to observe this statue as if it were

God and to give it the veneration that's only due him. So clearly, we need to make sure that we're very clear.

Our yeses need to be yes and our noes need to be noes, and we don't want to deceive people in what we're communicating. In that context, I would agree 100 % with you.

I definitely would not want to do that because everyone's going to interpret that as being an act of worship, an act of worship that only

God deserves. Actually, there would be, in my opinion, no reason to bow to that anyway.

Exactly, that particular thing. It's not like a person that you're respecting as a human being. It's a plate of stuff.

I agree 100%. Okay. I guess what I'm going to do is I'm going to read the question from our listener and then have you answer it when we return from our final break.

We have Guy, G -U -Y,

Guy in Copeg, Long Island, New York. And Guy says,

I was wondering if your guest believes in the regulative principle of worship. The reason

I am saying this is that there are Christians, even professedly Reformed Christians, that do not believe in the regulative principle of worship, and they use as their defense some of the very thing your guest is saying, that everything is worship.

If everything is worship, therefore, you could include things in a New Testament worship services that are not specifically listed or commanded in the

Bible. You could have sacred dance. You could have all kinds of other activities going on, the waving of flags, et cetera, because if everything is worship, therefore, there is no restriction on what you do, as long as it's not an act of sin, to incorporate it into a worship services.

What does your guest have to say about that? And we'll have you answer that when we return from our final break. If anybody has a question as well that they would like to ask

A .M. Brewster, please send it to ChrisAronson at gmail .com. ChrisAronson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence. Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages.

The Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society presents The Future of Christendom 2023,

The Gospel at War, September 15th to the 16th in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, featuring

Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. We are excited to be including a formal debate in this year's conference.

Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries will be debating Dr. Gregory Coles, author of Single Gay Christian, A Personal Journey of Faith and Sexual Identity, the debate topic,

Is Gay Christian a Biblically Acceptable Identity for a Member of Christ's Church? So come join us for the 6th

Future of Christendom Conference. The event will take place at Spooky Nook Sports in Mannheim, Pennsylvania and will run from Friday evening through all day

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I'm very excited to announce that my long time friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

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As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshipped and how he shall be represented in the world.

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We're now back with A .M. Brewster. We have been discussing today what Christians don't understand about worship.

And if you have an email, you better send it in immediately because we're rapidly running out of time. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

Guy in Copeg, New York, before the break, to summarize what he asked, he said that many people defend doing anything that is not actually an act of sin in a worship service because everything is worship.

And basically, the listener was wondering if your use of that phrase, everything is worship, would include a denial of the regulative principle of worship where we must only do those acts of worship or those activities specifically commanded in the

New Testament when we are having a worship service. Great question.

Huge question. Massive answer. Let me summarize it this way. First of all, we're talking about two very different things.

There's corporate worship, expectations for corporate worship, and there's expectations for personal worship. I'll just be honest with you.

I wear a suit to church. I believe that God deserves my best and calls for my best and demands my best in corporate worship.

And so, I try to dress my best when I'm engaged in corporate worship with God's people.

However, I do not wear a suit all of the time, even though I recognize the fact that I am personally called to worship

God at every moment of every day because the expectations of that personal worship and the corporate worship are different in the scriptures.

Second of all, I think the regulative principle is valuable. It's helpful. However, I also don't believe that it is commanded.

In fact, it's not that I don't believe it's commanded. It's not. The regulative principle is not taught in the scriptures or commanded in the scriptures.

The regulative principle is what could be considered a good idea. But then again, and don't take this the wrong way, okay,

I'm not saying people who believe in the regulative principle are Pharisees, but the Pharisaical ideas were good ideas too.

They said, okay, well, what does it mean not to work on the Sabbath? Let's come up with a list of things of what it means not to work on the Sabbath.

And the regulative principle is, well, how do we worship God in a corporate setting?

Well, let's look through the scriptures to see the ways that God was worshipped in a corporate setting by his people. Great idea, but when we make it something that it's not, we run the risk of, again, worshipping self, like we're doing something very good, but for the wrong reasons.

So, no, I will say, though, I don't hold tightly to the regulative principle.

I do believe that there are, you know, we do have an example in scripture of how God's people have worshipped him over the ages, and we are wise to take our guidance from that.

And there are lots of things that I think are done for the wrong reasons and in the wrong ways in the church that do not glorify him in corporate worship and shouldn't be done.

It's just, it's excessively difficult to point to the thing, and far more important that we're pointing to the why.

Why does this glorify God? Why does this not glorify God? It is easy to say that, you know, prayer and singing and Bible reading, there's examples of that in scripture, right?

It's easy for us to point to that. To say that we shouldn't have a drama, it's a little bit more difficult. The prophets used a lot of acting as they spoke with God's people.

So, the big question, if someone's having a drama in their church, maybe it's a drama, but it's a question of what are they really trying to accomplish?

What's their main motivation in doing so? Because I think some people have pleased the Lord with drama in church, and some people haven't.

Well, I would think that a church that is using drama in the church is not doing it during a worship service.

But that would be my opinion. I would hope that they wouldn't replace the regularly scheduled worship services for a performance of Oliver Twist and using that somehow as a biblical analogy or whatever.

I would agree with the Oliver Twist thing, probably not helpful. Just like all these quote -unquote churches who are preaching through movies, it's ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous.

Or even a nativity. I would be in disagreement with that fervently, to be doing that in replacement of a worship service during the

Christmas season. But that's my just strongly held conviction. And now we have reached the point where we need you to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today before we go off the air.

At any moment of any day, during any and all activities of the day, you will either be worshipping

God or worshipping self. And it doesn't matter if you were previously worshipping God on Sunday or a minute ago.

If you're not truly worshipping God right now, none of your past worship nor any of your future worship will fix the problem right now.

Right now, you need to worship God. You need to do the right things in the right way for the right reason to consciously and intentionally give

God the glory and the worship that He is due. And that's what I want to call all of us to do.

Amen. Well, I want to make sure that our listeners have all of your contact information.

You can go to TruthLoveParent .com, TruthLoveParent .com.

You can go to EvermindMinistries .com, correct? Yep. That's the best place to go. Go to EvermindMinistries .com,

download the app, get connected with everything we have, get all the information that I have for you today to continue this discussion.

Great. And please, folks, do not forget about two events that are coming up very quickly.

The three -day conference with Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries at the

Spooky Nook Sports and Events in Mannheim, Pennsylvania, which is Lancaster County, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, September 15th, 16th, and 17th.

This includes a debate on September 16th with Dr. Gregory Coles, and the theme will be,

Is Gay Christian a Biblically Acceptable Identity for a Member of Christ's Church?

Dr. James R. White is opposing that thesis, and Dr. Gregory Coles is affirming it.

If you want to register for this three -day event, go to futureofchristendom .org, futureofchristendom .org.

Also, don't forget about my pastor's luncheon. This is for men in ministry leadership only, featuring

Jeff Knoblet, founder and president of Anchored in Truth Ministries and senior pastor of Grace Life Church of the

Shoals and Muscle Shoals, Alabama. That's Thursday, October 5th, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the

Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania. If you would like to attend that event, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your full name and the church that you represent.

And this event, unlike the other, this pastor's luncheon is absolutely free of charge. I want to thank again

A .M. Brewster for doing such a remarkable job. I want to thank all of our listeners. I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater