December 29, 2022 with Geoff Thomas on “Becoming Fishers of Men”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 29th day of December 2022, as we quickly approach the end of this year, 2022.

I am so thrilled to have as a returning guest someone who has been a favorite guest of mine for years and has also, judging from the emails I get, a favorite guest among our listeners here in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience all over the world.

His name is Reverend Jeff Thomas, and he, beginning in 1965, served for over 50 years as pastor of Alfred Place Baptist Church of Aberystwyth, Wales. He's the author of many books, and we are going to be addressing the theme, Becoming Fishers of Men.

We're also going to be promoting a conference coming up in the not-too-distant future where Jeff will be speaking, and that will be the Here We Stand Conference on the Five Solos of the Reformation.

This is actually a conference of the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology, and I am so thrilled to be, God willing, attending this event, and other featured speakers at this event will be Kevin DeYoung and Richard D. Phillips.

Richard has been a guest on this program many times. And we're also going to be talking about a couple of books, new books coming out by Jeff Thomas that should be available in print in 2023, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Jeff Thomas.

Greetings, brother. Can you hear me?

Yes, thank you very much. I'm delighted to be on the program again and to be with you and to speak on this subject of fishing for men and women. And I want to do it in two halves, really. The young Peter, the 20-year-old, the fisherman, and the great call that came to him and how that transformed his life.

And then the old Peter, writing in his letter 40 years later, maybe, and giving us counsel of how to fish for men. And so I'll do it in that way.

Great, and this is also the theme of a book that will be available in 2023, am I right?

Yes, that's right. Yes, Grand Rapids is going to bring it out again, so that will be wonderful.

And that would be Reformation Heritage Books?

Exactly.

And you have another book coming out in 2023.

They've accepted the manuscript.

And you have a second book coming out in 2023 by Evangelical Press, and that's Knowing the Cross, is that right?

Knowing the Cross, yes.

Well, we will keep our audience updated as to when those books will actually be available, because I know that it will not be for months away, but time does fly, especially when I've passed the age of 60, that time seems to fly by too fast.

Well, if you'd like to start on this theme, this grand theme, Becoming Fishers of Men.

Jesus Calls Peter to Become a Fisher of Men

Okay. Jesus, in Luke 5, has spent the night getting up very early and praying, praying about the disciples he's going to call. Should he call Peter? John? Yes. Some rather obscure people that we hardly know.

Judas? He rolls it out. He's earnest, interceding. He wants to call these men to be fishers of men. And then, having settled that issue, God assuring him, he goes down to the shore, and the crowd gather around him, and he talks to them.

They can't hear. He doesn't do a miracle then. He doesn't clear the earwax out of their ears. He doesn't make the ground under his feet soar up. He doesn't increase the volume of his voice wonderfully so that they can all hear.

He notices there are two boats, and they're empty, and he asks then that Peter should go out a little bit into the deep and then drive the boat into the shore. And he stands in the prow of the ship, and he faces the crowd, and they all spread out, and there's a good sounding board with the water and the sand, and they listen to him.

So there he is.

He doesn't give a sign yet. There's no miracle yet. But he notices the men have been fishing all night, and now they're repairing their nets. They're broken. They're torn. They're full of weeds. They've worked all night, and they've got nothing.

And so now, before they can go home and go to bed, they've got to repair the nets. It's a picture of futility because Peter's fishing wasn't a hobby to get away from his wife, but he was there working to raise money for the family by selling the fish in the market.

You might think that was a good time for Jesus to call Peter to be a fisher of men because it would be our inclination. You know what you're in for? Many disappointments, much frustration, pessimism, hard graft.

A perfect time to call them. It would steal Peter for the life of discipleship, plodding away, dashed hopes. You remember Ernest Hemingway's last book, The Old Man and the Sea, and how this man catches the biggest marlin, and as he's sailing home, the sharks send his blood, and they tear out chunks from the marlin.

And he's got, when he finally gets home, just the skeleton of the biggest marlin. The futility of human life. You live, and then as you're about to get your retirement, you die. The business you're in, the law changes, and all your profits go.

And so Jesus doesn't order the miracle then. What he does is to say, put out into the deep. Let down your nets for a catch. It's a command. And Peter protests, all night we've been fishing and we've caught nothing.

And he's exhausted. And he gives Jesus a chance to change his mind. But Peter doesn't stop there. But he says, at your word. At your word, I'll go out. How important is that? It's all important. If you decide that something Jesus says is okay, and other times it's not okay, then you're the Lord, not him.

But here is the word made flesh. Here is the one who says, I and my father are one. And so he goes and he takes Jesus with him in the boat. And they cast out the nets. And as a result, they have an immense catch.

They've never seen anything like it. Peter's the fisherman. Peter's the local man. Peter, with his father before him, has spent years in Galilee. Jesus is the landlubber. His father is a carpenter. Landlocked Nazareth is his home.

Peter knows all about fishing. Let Jesus be the inspirational speaker. But Peter, let him be the master of fishing. But he submits. He bows down to Jesus' command. And as a result, the nets are breaking.

And help is needed.

It filled one boat.

It fills two boats. Here is the Lord of this miracle. Peter sees it as never before. Here is omnipotence. Here is the one Jehovah in the Old Testament. In Psalm 8, he commands the fish of the sea. Psalm 95, there in his hands.

Psalm 148, praise the Lord. From the earth, you great sea creatures. He's in control of continents and oceans. The heavens, the atom, the virus. You remember in 1 Kings 4, we're introduced to Solomon, who was so wise.

And we are told in 1 Kings 4, he knew all about fish. But a greater than Solomon is here. He controls the depths. And he can send a great fish to take Jonah to do his will. And he can send Peter to catch a fish.

And there's a coin in its mouth that pays the debt for the temple. And here's a Lord, then, who is watching us. And he controls everything. The breath in our lungs. Exhale, inhale. It's all of him. The sparrow that falls.

The fish of the sea. He commands all the fish of Galilee to swim here and plunge into the nets of Peter. Here is omnipotence incarnate. Here is the messianic king. You remember in Numbers 11, Moses is leading the children of Israel into the desert.

And they don't have food. And they are longing for the delicious fish of Egypt. The fresh fish from the Nile. The salt fish from the Med. And Moses is in deep distress. What can I do with these people?

You told me to nurse them. They're too many for me. And all they are getting is manna. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. All the days of the week, manna. Moses says, would they have enough if all the fish of the sea were caught for them?

And that question of Moses is answered here in Luke's Gospel. Jesus comes. And look, all the fish come. They flow into his nets. And before he calls Peter to be a fisher of men, he shows his power to him.

He shows he's the Lord of creation. He's the messianic king that Moses spoke about. So what's your response to this now? What do you think of this mighty Jesus Christ? You know what was Peter's response?

How he reacted? He didn't say, oh, the fishing business never been so good since I've got Jesus in the boat with me. He didn't say that. I'm way ahead of competition. I'm going to be wealthy. I'm going to make a killing in the market today.

He didn't say that. Many prosperity preachers are saying things like that. You get Jesus with them and you're going to be rich. But Peter didn't react like that. He collapsed. He's overwhelmed because he knew who was in the boat with him.

Who are you dealing with? You're dealing with the creator. There, with a wriggling, jumping fish, Peter collapses. Depart from me, for I'm a sinful man. You see this response? We feel we're sinful. We feel we're not able to be any assistance of the Lord because of our past, because of our weakness.

But here is Jesus who came not to call the righteous, not to seek for the righteous, but sinners to bring them to repentance. God in the boat, the God of mercy, Jehovah Jesus, the promised one, there in the boat.

And Peter falls before him. That's our posture before the maker of the universe. Adam hides. Abraham falls at the great trees of Mamre. Job says, I despise myself. Isaiah says, woe is me. I'm a man of unclean lips.

John on Patmos falls before him. God is light. And so Jesus shows himself to Peter before he says to him, I will make you a fisher of men. Jesus shows he didn't come into the world to judge and condemn, but he came to save.

He came to save sinners. It was grace that taught my heart to fear and grace my fears relieved, John Newton says. And it's grace that teaches Peter to fear the living God. And Jesus says, don't be afraid.

Blessed are the poor in spirit. Blessed are the meek. Blessed is the man who in the temple beats his breasts and says, God, be merciful to me, a sinner. Today, the surgeons of the word are not cutting deeply enough.

The cancer of sin is not being removed. So this is a moral universe. What you sow, you're also going to reap. This Jesus, he says, but don't be afraid. Come to me and I will give you rest. And so here is this Jesus.

This Jesus who comes and he provides fish for the needy, and he's calling us to be his disciples. He's going to provide all we need excessively, abundantly, according to his riches in glory. And that's have to be our expectations.

When he calls us, he gives this sign of blessing. And you remember how he made good this sign to Peter. He threw out the net on the day of Pentecost. Three thousand men were drawn to God. God sent Philip to Samaria.

One man, a full net, Samaria transformed. Paul went, one man to Corinth. Corinth had a thousand people who were teachers of the word soon. Martin Luther transformed Germany. Spurgeon transformed London.

For that, John Patton went to the New Hebrides, scarcely a single fish. But when he finished, there was scarcely anyone outside the net. And so it's been today in many parts of the world, in Korea, in Zambia.

We see it, many converts. Think of the day when someone threw out a net and caught you. It's such an encouragement to go where he sends, to do what he says, to fish when he says fish, and do it expectantly, expecting to sink under the weight of blessing.

Don't measure the grace of God by statistics, but measure the grace of God by the power of this king, by the attractiveness of his kingdom. I will make you fishers of men, he says. That is the promise.

The precept to us, catch men. The prayer, Lord, make me a fisher of men. So that is the first thing I want to say to you about how Peter first met the great fisher of men and was called to be a fisher of men himself.

Praise God. And we're going to go to our first station break right now. If anybody has a question for Jeff Thomas on this grand theme of becoming fishers of men, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence. If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, such as a pastoral question that you may have for Jeff, since he has spent the vast majority of his life here on this planet as a pastor.

So we will accept pastoral questions as well. And if one is a personal and private question, you may remain anonymous. It's ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Jeff Thomas and our theme, Becoming Fishers of Men.

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That's going to be here before you know it. So go to royaldiadem .com, royaldiadem .com, and make sure that you tell them that you heard about them from Chris Arnz of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Jeff Thomas, before we go back to the second half of what you wanted to discuss on being fishers of men, we do have a couple of audience questions that I'll read to you.

We have Ramon in Metro Manila in the Philippines, and he says, So what advice can you give us when we are fishing in rough waters? Or to put it another way, what do you do when the fish you are catching are piranhas trying to bite you?

Do you have an answer or answers?

Very good, yes. The more you fish, the better a fisherman you will be, because there are only half a dozen sections of questions that people raise, historical, emotional, challenging the Bible. And you get used to meeting these questions and you've got your answers prepared.

So the more you fish, keep on giving out your tracks, keep on being there and smile and be sweet to people and show affection for them and don't let them get under your skin and compliment them on their strong opinions, but tell them you've got a better message than they have.

Be sweet and loving and never give up. Never give up. Always keep on. Always.

Now, would you also, as far as the piranhas who are biting you, would not Matthew 10, verse 14 be wise advice, especially since it's God-breathed? Whoever does not receive you nor heed your words as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.

Isn't it true that we can't become enslaved to trying to win certain people to Christ? Not that we are to never return to them with the gospel, but at a specific moment, if we are just going nowhere and getting nothing done and being attacked by a sea of anti-Christian individuals who are using machine gun method of firing questions at us so quickly that we can't even answer them.

It is a dangerous, dangerous time to be promoting. Are you...

By the way, Jeff...

It's a dangerous time to be...

You're breaking up for some reason, Jeff. Are you doing something different?

Well, I've not done anything. Are you able to hear me now?

Yes, I hear you perfectly well now.

Okay. Well, it isn't easy. If you're going to stand in the open air and you're going to confront...

Yeah, for some reason you keep breaking up. I don't even... Obviously, it's a technical issue and I don't know why it's happening. Are you there, Jeff?

There were two women who were speaking to a friend of mine preaching in the open air and they asked, did you have a Bible? Yes, he says, we have Bibles so we can give you. And he gave a Bible to the one woman and she tore it to pieces and walked away.

Wow.

That was the horror that he was confronted with and he walked quickly after her and said, you must give an account for what you've done to the Word of God. That's all he could say.

Amen. And in the long run, we know that all we do is plant and water the seeds that we planted. Only God can give the increase. Yeah. As long as we are obeying God's command to evangelize, we should not take it overly personally and be too overcome with depression and insecurity, anxiety that we're doing something not as polished as we could because it's God that brings new life to the dead, lost sinner, not us.

Like so.

Well, thank you so much, Ramon. Keep listening and keep spreading the word about the show in Metro Manila and beyond. I'll have one more audience question before you return to your message on Becoming Fishers of Men.

We have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, who asks, do you have any ideas as to why the God-breathed scriptures refer to evangelism as being fishers of men and not hunters of men? Is there a real difference in the analogy that would make fishers more of an appropriate allegorical way of describing evangelism?

Well, that's a very good question. Thomas Boston has a wonderful little book on being fishers of men. And he talks about the skill and the patience and the persistence that is required in fishing and the wisdom that you have to use and the knowledge that you gain, how to catch them.

And so the Lord Jesus, he had four men, Peter and Andrew, James and John, who were all fishermen and leading men amongst his disciples, amongst his apostles. And it was very natural then for him to relate to them of a subject that they knew so well.

If they'd been hunters, I'm sure he would have used the hunting analogy successfully. But as he was dealing with fishermen, then when he was speaking to centurions, then the Bible talks about being a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

So the metaphors relate to the various callings. Doctors and nurses have the healing image of what the gospel does to us. Laundry workers are confronted with the Golgotha laundry that's opened up for sin and uncleanness.

So you approach in all these ways the people that you are praying about and are seeking to help as vividly as you can.

Amen. That's an excellent answer, I believe. And the only other thing that I might add to that is that unless you're using a rod and reel, which the disciples were not doing, net fishing, as they were doing, is catching many fish at the same time, whereas hunting is usually a sport that involves one animal that you may be hunting for hours or days.

And you may not even successfully kill that animal, but if you do, it's typically one animal that you're getting. So that's the only thing that I could think of as far as how the analogies differ. I'd like you now, in the time we have remaining in the first half of the program, to return to your theme, your grand theme of becoming fishers of men.

The Hopeful Witness of the Christian Life

Well, now, here is the old Peter, gnarled, wise, white-haired, and he writes two letters at the end of his life. And in the one letter, he's talking about fishing. And this is what he says, be always ready to give a reason for the hope that you have.

And he tells us how we are to speak. But let me begin by referring to the hope. That is the theme of our message. Our testimony is positive. It is affirmatory. It is consolatory. It is optimistic. I can't understand how a man can go into the pulpit and rant about the failings of politicians and send a congregation home angry at the end.

That is not preaching. We are facing a culture of despair. With a heavy weight of gloom and despondency. They tried music and entertainment and relationships and alcohol and drugs. And they are without hope from all those things.

Many of the young don't have jobs. Many men and women have failed marriages. They know nothing of the consolations of Christianity and the promises of God. They are prisoners of economic pressure and atheistic philosophies and a worldview that terminates with death.

But my friends, we have a message of wonderful hope. There's a graffiti on a Belfast wall that says, Is there life before death? They were in such despair, the men who wrote that graffiti up. I've written a book called You Could Have It All.

And it's full of encouragement of the wonderful consolations and comforts that we have. That the love of God is boundless. That grace is free. That Jesus says, You're the light of the world. He didn't say you are the traffic wardens of the world.

Or you are the police of the world. But we are the light of the world. And I beg you always to remember this. So this basic perspective that you give a reason for your hope. That there is forgiveness because of what the Lamb of God has done for us on the cross.

There is hope because of the great promises that God has made. That he will work all things together for good to them that love him. And that he will supply all our needs. And especially when we come to the valley of the shadow of death.

Christians won't walk through it alone. But hand in hand with the one who will accompany them. It is for us not the end. It is for us the beginning. It is not for us that we are leaving the land of the living.

We are leaving the land of the dying. To go to the land of the living forever and ever. Give them hope, Peter says. The two reasons why we have hope. Give them the reason firstly because of the resurrection on the third day.

It didn't occur in a book of theology. It didn't occur in a dream. It occurred in reality. Women saw him. Men saw him. He ate and drank with them. He said to Peter, handle me, touch me. This isn't a ghost.

And their lives were transformed. Those men who once were behind a locked door. Now they are full of confidence standing before thousands of men at the temple. Or going into Samaria. And they're speaking because they have such great, great hope.

So being a good witness starts in our hearts. It starts with our own trust in the Lord. Our belief in him. We have a mighty influence that drives us on. Our God is so good to us. He meets our needs. He hears our prayers.

He overlooks our sins. He lavishes his kindness and his love upon us. You know these things. You who are listening to me today, don't you have in your own experience answered prayer? Wasn't there a time in your life where you were desperate and you cried to God?

And God helped you in a time of need? And your strength was made perfect in weakness? And your fears were never realized? And what blessings God has poured down upon you? Don't you have a living experience of the goodness of God?

Isn't that an ongoing existential foundation for your faith? I've cried to God and he's answered me. You remember Elijah on Mount Carmel and all the prophets of Baal. They're like the men that our brother from the Philippines has just been talking to us about.

Full of hatred and full of confidence in their own gods. And crying and crying but no answer coming to them. But Elijah cried to God and immediately God answers because he is the living God. And in that moment, the whole nation of Israel found a reason for hope.

And this is our great encouragement that we have a message of hope. I have good news for everybody listening to this message. Everyone I meet, I have a savior for you. I have forgiveness of sins for you.

I have life everlasting for you. And that is our great message of hope.

And we have an anonymous listener who says, when I have relatives and friends over for the holidays who are not Christians, inevitably subjects will come up that start arguments among us in varying degrees of intensity.

Should I not bring up the precious truths of the gospel during these times of gathering? Or should I handle the situation differently instead of participating in an argument over them?

Yes, yes. You know, you want to say a couple of things about that. You want to say God doesn't want us to be people who are only interested in religion. I think that's important to say. We're interested in people and their plight and their families and their children.

And we remember to their birthdays and the anniversaries of their tragedies. And we we sympathize with them and we care for them. And that is enormously important. Our Lord and Savior, he wept with Mary and Martha at the death of their brother.

And so you are a whole person. And when you're with your family, you have a long term relationship. You're not sitting for an hour in a bus or on a plane with them. And you only have a short time to speak.

You are planning a lifetime in which you, at an appropriate, caring way, will give a testimony to the goodness of God. And you will say to them, I couldn't have survived that time. I can only get by with the strength that God gives me.

And then you go on to something else. Just be wise, be sober, be kind and loving. And you have the same Heavenly Father as I have. And we all make mistakes. When there are students who are converted, I say, it's enough for you to go to church on a Sunday who've never gone before.

It's enough for you to have a Bible at the side of your bed that your mother, when she makes your bed, notices you're reading the Bible and you're going to church. It's enough for you to offer to wash the dishes and tidy up your room and show her that a positive change has taken place before getting involved in arguments and accusing your parents of not being Christians.