"Seventy Times Seven" (A Response To Faith Church of Greenfield, MA) Apologetics

Moore's Corner Church

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:05

Okay, turn to 1 Corinthians chapter 15. I'll start by saying welcome to the

00:12

Faith Matters discussion group. So this is something new.

00:18

I don't think we've done anything like this before. We'll see how it goes. Yeah, turn to 1 Corinthians 15.

00:24

I'll just kind of give an introduction and we'll get into the article in a few minutes.

00:31

I'd like to start by saying a few things before we begin this new endeavor.

00:37

I'm calling this the Faith Matters discussion group, which implies that a lot of it's going to depend on you.

00:44

It's not, I don't want it to be me up here talking for half hour, 45 minutes. I want everybody to get involved.

00:53

And just going forward, hopefully you've all read the article, but going forward that's very, very important that we read the article ahead of time.

01:02

And maybe even make some notes ahead of time of what we, or what you are going to say.

01:08

So this may go on for two or three weeks, depending on how it goes.

01:14

In order for this to be successful, yeah, it's going to require your participation.

01:20

Whether or not I upload this to the internet, it is being recorded, but I'm going to make that judgment call later on.

01:28

In case I do, I'm going to need everybody, when you chime in,

01:33

I'm going to need you to speak loud so that the microphone catches it. But every

01:38

Saturday in the religion section, the Greenfield Recorder, they run a column called

01:44

Faith Matters. And the majority of the clergy members who write in, most of them, the majority of them, identify as Christian.

01:53

But for those of you who read the column, you have noticed, I think, that they believe sometimes very, very different than we do.

02:04

And more importantly, they believe very different from what Christians have believed historically. At times, their teachings flat -out deny or contradict the

02:15

Bible. I've shared this story a couple times over the years, but there was a minister a few years ago, and I'm not critiquing her,

02:24

I'm just telling you what she said. She was a minister in the United Church of Christ, UCC.

02:30

That's one of the largest Protestant denominations in the country. And on Easter Sunday, she wrote an article about this idea that Jesus died and rose from the dead.

02:43

She said, what is he, a zombie? She said, she said, the idea that Jesus died and rose again and is coming back as the judge of mankind, she called that the zombie gospel.

02:57

The zombie gospel. Well, the fact is, no matter what a person's opinion is, historically, all

03:04

Christians historically have believed that Jesus died for our sins and rose again.

03:09

We're going to read that in 1st Corinthians 15 in just a moment. So when you read something like that, it makes you realize something has happened.

03:21

Something has happened along along the way. Admittedly, that was one of the more extreme examples, okay?

03:28

But it is pretty common to see something that does go against the teachings of Scripture.

03:35

So the purpose of this is to not only identify the errors, but to figure out why people believe like this, so that you can better defend what you believe from the

03:49

Bible. That's really the purpose. I think we would want to be corrected.

03:55

If you were wrong about something, wouldn't you want to be, I mean, it's not fun being corrected, but you we would want to be corrected to believe what is right.

04:04

So I hope that we're all teachable and we're open to challenge and correction.

04:10

Because these days, everybody is just so tribalistic. Everybody kind of falls into their camp and they only want to hear the things that reaffirm what they already believe.

04:22

Nobody's going to grow in that kind of setting. So let's look at 1st Corinthians 15 just as our starting point.

04:29

1st Corinthians 15, 1 through 4. It tells us what the gospel is, says, or the scripture says,

04:37

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, and which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which

04:49

I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I deliver to you, first of all, that which

04:56

I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that he was buried, and he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

05:10

So that's what the gospel is, not according to me. That's what the gospel is according to the

05:16

Bible. So that's our starting point. And ultimately, my purpose here is to win people over.

05:23

I hope somebody from another camp, another church, someone who just doesn't believe might catch wind of this, and it'll lead them to faith in Christ.

05:35

So this whole thing is not meant as an attack. An attack, hopefully, it'll be informative, a discussion that will be a learning experience.

05:44

My one ground rule, we're going to try to address the teaching and not the teacher, okay?

05:54

So if you're going to critique something, critique the idea, not the individual.

06:01

The people writing these articles are made in the image of God, just like everybody else, so we want to be respectful of them as people.

06:10

But their teachings are fair game. Why are their teachings fair game? Because they're putting it out in the public arena.

06:18

So therefore, it's completely acceptable for us to talk about it publicly. And I'm going to write an article at the end of the month.

06:27

I'm sure there'll be somebody who reads it and critiques what I say, and that's fine. I'm willing to stand behind whatever

06:32

I say or write. And I think they would, I think they would say the same thing.

06:38

All right, so now to the article. I just want to kind of summarize it. Again, everybody should have read it ahead of time.

06:46

If there's one or two that haven't, that's okay. Just going forward, let's read it ahead of time. It's titled 70 x 7, and it was written by Pastor Sherwood of Faith Church in Greenfield.

06:59

What I took away from this, just sort of as a summary of the article, is that he is going to lead the church,

07:08

Faith Church, in serving the needs of the community. And he says that God, this is tied in with the title, he said that God likes to count.

07:17

So 70 x 7, God likes to count. Jesus tells Peter to forgive 70 x 7.

07:24

So Peter, count. Keep a record of how many times you forgive.

07:30

So therefore, just as God likes to count, he ends the article by saying to the community, now you keep a record of what our church does.

07:40

Count how many acts of service, count how many wonderful things we do for the community.

07:46

That seems to be the thrust of his message, and it seems that one of his focuses is that they are going to lead in this idea that fundamentalism is bad.

08:01

American Christianity historically is bad. Acceptance of LGBTQ and all of that, that's good.

08:09

So Christianity before bad, what we're doing is good. So keep a count because we're gonna lead in this community in that area.

08:17

That's kind of my general summary. Do you think that's fair? Okay, now your reactions.

08:25

Yes, Marcus. Well, it sounded like critical race theory, only critical fundamentalist theory.

08:36

You could coin a new term, critical fundamentalist theory. CFT, not

08:42

CRT. Yeah. Am I way off? Well, let's first define what is critical race theory.

08:49

Okay. Does anyone know? Yeah, basically it's a tenant of Marxism, it came out of Marxism.

09:01

There's critical theory in general, but critical race theory, generally the idea is that America is a racist country, it's systemic, there's racism everywhere.

09:12

You may say, well, I don't even see it. Well, yeah, right, because it's everywhere, it's so pervasive, you can't even see it.

09:18

And you're white, so you're racist, just because you have white skin, because you're part of the system.

09:26

So that's kind of critical race theory in a nutshell. It was developed to kind of break down, so they could build back up with their

09:35

Marxism. I mean, that's where it comes from. But do you want to, is there anything specific in the article that stood out to you as critical race theory?

09:46

This thought didn't cross your mind? It sounds like a critic, a criticism of fundamentalism.

09:53

Yeah. I mean, titles depend on definition, don't they?

10:00

You just ask, what is the definition of critical race theory? Yeah, well, actually, it didn't cross my mind, but now that you mention it, critical race theory is meant to kind of break down structures and systems, and part of what makes

10:16

America America is this is a Christian nation historically, or a nation of Christians, and that's bad.

10:24

So historic Christianity is bad, you've got to break that down. So I can see that connection. Did you have your hand up,

10:29

Colby? Well, I was just going to add that CRT kind of makes racism, it makes it related to power also, it doesn't always have to do with your skin color, it's like if you're

10:43

If you have power over somebody, then the people who you have power over can't be racist because they don't have it.

10:52

Yeah, and the idea is that white people have had power, therefore white people are the problem.

10:59

But you're right, power structures are involved. Jim, you had something? Well, in the first paragraph,

11:06

I saw that the statement that he made is contrary to really what's happening.

11:14

It says that the statutory of people who have not yet met me, but as our congregation has peeled away from the wave, this is the part, wave of fundamentalism that has gripped

11:28

American churches. That's just the opposite. The fundamentalism is not gripping the churches today.

11:35

There are more churches that are favoring the CRT and everything else that's contrary to what

11:44

Scripture says. Yeah, the majority of churches in America are not fundamentalist churches.

11:50

Right, you're right. So it is the opposite. I guess what he's saying is we are breaking away and now it's a new day because churches like ours, we're no longer part of that bad fundamentalism.

12:06

Any other reactions? It's good if we can hone in on a statement from the article and then kind of address that biblically.

12:17

Well, the Bible says that marriage is between a man and a woman, and he's going against that in this article.

12:26

Right. Yeah, that's the elephant in the room. That's the major issue with this article is that, hey, homosexuality, and I don't even like using the term

12:39

LG because you're accepting their language. It's like saying pro -choice.

12:44

Well, everyone likes choices. So once you accept their language, it's like you lose. The Bible calls it sodomy and nobody's ever transitioned their gender.

12:55

So it's sodomy and cross -dressing. This is how I would define it. But obviously, we all know what the

13:01

Bible teaches about that. And in the name of Christ, he's saying, oh, this is something that should be celebrated.

13:10

So that's the glaring issue of the article. And then tied to that is, well, then they don't really believe the

13:19

Bible. Then if the Bible teaches that, maybe that's the bigger issue. Yeah, it's a denial of the scripture is the word of God.

13:30

Jesus said the second commandment of the law is to love your neighbor as yourself.

13:36

That's the second. That's a summary of the second half of the Ten Commandments. One of the commandments is you shall not bear false witness.

13:43

When you lie to somebody and saying to a boy with a skirt, it says you're acting. Yes, you are a girl.

13:49

You are. You're lying to them. And according to the scripture, according to Jesus, lying to somebody is not a loving thing to do.

13:58

So they've turned everything on its head. The Bible talks about that. They exchange bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

14:05

They call evil good and good evil. I would argue that churches aren't involved in that.

14:13

Any church that teaches that is not a new test. They're an assembly of people, but they're not a

14:19

New Testament church. Yeah. If I teach something completely opposite of the

14:25

Bible, you can't call that. I can call it Christianity, but it isn't. It isn't Christianity. Larry.

14:32

I was just thinking about 2 Timothy 3 .16 that says all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

14:48

But I've also heard some people using that verse say all the scripture that is inspired is profitable.

15:03

So there's some that isn't. Okay. But who decides?

15:09

Well, there are writings that are not inspired. That's true. But are they in that book?

15:16

And so how do people interpret what the

15:22

Bible says? Is it literal interpretation or are they making it up as they go?

15:31

Well, I can say this with absolute certainty. The things being taught today like this, again, even 50 years ago, this is not being taught at all.

15:42

So for 1900 plus years, this stuff didn't even exist within the church.

15:47

So you can't claim that, oh yeah, this is what Jesus thought. Yes. Well, I also think in regards to the churches condoning the transgender issue is, you know, we're taught that we're creating

16:02

God's image exactly the way we are. We're made perfectly. So I feel like it's a bit hypocritical to say that and then also be like, oh, but you actually weren't created the right way.

16:13

Nevermind. God got it wrong. You know what I mean? It just doesn't make sense. Yeah, you're right. It's the exact opposite.

16:19

Almost everything they say, it's always the reverse. It's like you're misgendering somebody.

16:25

No, we're using the right. You're the misgendering. So yeah, it can be frustrating, but we have to be able to take a deep breath and be able to explain it to people.

16:37

Because there's some people that, you know, I think you have a good understanding of what the Scripture says, but not everybody does, and they'll fall for these arguments.

16:46

Lenny. Yeah, the Bible is a prayer that says something about no confusion, but it doesn't say in the church, it says in the saints.

16:54

In other words, real believers, not just a body of church members. Yeah. There's no confusion.

17:00

So whenever you start twisting something, I don't mean every church is going to tell you the truth, but that's among the saints.

17:07

Okay. True believers. All right, so I'm going to kind of work through this. If you have anything else, just raise your hand.

17:13

But the first paragraph, he talks about exploring a broader horizon of Christianity.

17:20

So we have Christianity of what it used to be, but we want to explore a broader horizon.

17:28

What does that mean, explore a broader horizon? He doesn't really explain it.

17:34

Taking it outside of what Scripture says. Right. And putting your own interpretation on what

17:41

Scripture says. Right. That would be the broader. Yes. That is what my first reading through this,

17:50

I was noticing these opposites, and like we're talking about, the opposites of good and evil, and evil and then

18:00

God. And this was the first thing that I noticed, this use of the word broader, as if broader is better.

18:09

And I just couldn't help but thinking of the Bible verse that says, broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many there be that find it.

18:18

Later at the, I don't know if you want to wait until we get to that part of it, but he was, in the criticism of the

18:26

Methodist church, the Methodist church was wrong because it was largely over, well, because of its inability to universally welcome those of other sexual identities or orientations.

18:43

And again, welcoming a person, I would welcome anyone.

18:49

I have a transgender student this year. I had one last year. I had one before that lived across the street where I lived.

18:58

So it's not new to me. I still welcome those kids. I still love those kids.

19:06

I disagree with what they're doing. I don't particularly want to be suspended or fired, and I know full well because I have been warned about, you know, exercising any level of teaching or authority, because I do have authority over them as far as, you know, if we have an emergency, they need to do exactly as I say or they might not get out of the bus alive in an accident.

19:36

But I can't correct their, so, all right, so broad and narrow.

19:43

I forget where, well, anyways, he says you don't want to be narrow.

19:49

You do want to be broad. Well, no, you don't. You want to be narrow. You want, they call it the straight and narrow.

19:57

No, we want a broader market. We want to go in a broader direction.

20:03

Kathy. Yeah, so this is the statement I got stuck on, you know, but kept going back and forth on it.

20:10

But I also thought of, I mean, I don't think it's bad. I mean, a broader horizon,

20:15

I looked it up, is an increased range of knowledge. Yeah. So you're increasing your name of our beliefs.

20:22

Yeah. So I was also thinking of Peter when he was on the roof and the things came down.

20:30

Isn't that, that wasn't God asking him to broaden his horizons? Right. Yeah, I like that because you looked up the term and I looked up the term as well, and the definition as far as a broader horizon is actually good.

20:44

Yes, we do want to expand our knowledge. And again, if we are wrong, we want to know that.

20:53

But what he didn't really define the broader horizon. I guess you were saying that he left the

20:59

United Methodist Church because they were not inclusive enough. Anyone who knows the United Methodist Church in the

21:05

United States knows that they are the most supportive of homosexuality.

21:12

Every Methodist church I drive by has the rainbow flag out front. Now, there are some parts of the Methodist church in Africa that are not fully accepting.

21:22

But again, it's just the opposite, that they're not inclusive. Well, yeah, they are. They're extremely inclusive of that.

21:33

Broader horizon, that's what I thought of. Matthew 7, 13 and 14, enter by the narrow gate, for wide is the gate.

21:41

And broad is the way that leads to destruction. That was my first thought.

21:48

But the truth is narrow. Two plus two equals what? Four. The truth is very narrow.

21:56

Error is wide. Two plus two equals ten. Two plus two equals 110.

22:05

There's all these other horizons that are wrong, but the truth is very narrow. Yeah, Jim.

22:12

Well, he says a broader horizon of Christian faith.

22:20

If you earnestly study the Word of God and pray that God would reveal with clarity, insight and wisdom into His Word, then that would be the broader part of it.

22:38

Not the world as being broader, which I think he's intending on saying here.

22:45

But the broader part would be your knowledge of what Scripture says, what

22:51

God is like, what we need to be like. It's not a book of rules, which

22:59

I think sometimes people... Yeah, that's what it is. If you want to be a Christian, you've got to follow these rules.

23:06

But I think that the broader horizons would come only through the study of Scripture.

23:13

And how does he come up with these topics that he's enumerated in this article without studying the

23:25

Word of God? If he's studying the Word of God, is he just picking out, well, this is what

23:30

I think is the focus and everything else is a shadow of what the real truth is.

23:40

Right, well, I don't think he's getting his teachings from the Bible. That's evident. So where does it come from?

23:48

Can I play devil's advocate? Can I try to come from maybe his perspective and what they might say?

23:56

I think that they would hear all of this. And even though that, yes, the Bible does call it an abomination.

24:04

They would hear all that as us being hateful. Not so.

24:10

Yeah, well, I think that's how they interpret it. So they're led more by feelings.

24:19

So if somebody comes to you and they're involved in this lifestyle, that we are going to embrace that person.

24:27

We're going to show them love. And you can see how that would seem to the broader world as they're the ones who are loving these people and you're just the one condemning them.

24:39

I think that's where they're coming from. Because you use the word preach at someone. Right. But at the same time,

24:46

I don't know if they understand this or not. We all have people in our family, friends, neighbors, co -workers who are involved in this.

24:54

I don't think anybody here is mistreating them or trying to make them feel bad.

25:01

Or if somebody came into the church and wanted to sit through a service, I think people would be nice to them.

25:06

So I don't think the label of, well, you just hate people. I don't think that's accurate at all.

25:13

But if you love somebody, I think you need to tell them the truth about what

25:19

God has said. Because ultimately, we are blessed by God when we obey

25:24

God's will for our life. And the one thing they can't deny is that if that boy or girl was biologically born as a male or female,

25:35

I mean, that's science. That is fact. That is science. And it's not going to change.

25:42

Right. But they're embracing a whole ideology that is detached from Scripture.

25:48

Okay. Yeah, did you have something? Yeah, 2 Peter 3 .18,

25:56

talking about broadening, says, But grow in the grace and knowledge of our

26:01

Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Mm -hmm. Amen. So, that's...

26:09

Our broadening should be His teachings, His life, His ministry, everything that He taught we should live and do.

26:23

Yes. It seems like they're twisting words around because they want us to accept that and then we should be accepting, but we should forgive them, 70 times that.

26:36

Yeah, if I can kind of hone in on that, because this is the only part that actually quotes

26:42

Scripture. His only quotation of Scripture is Matthew 18, 21, and 22.

26:52

So, he's saying that, you know, God is a God who likes to count. God counts days.

26:58

God counts the tribes of Israel. And the Lord told Peter to forgive 70 times 7.

27:05

So, Peter, keep a record of how many times you forget. That's the exact opposite of what

27:11

Jesus was saying. He's saying, don't keep a record. Don't count. Because if Peter was counting, he could get to 490 and say,

27:18

I don't have to forgive anyone anymore. So, it's ironic to me, the only time he actually uses

27:23

Scripture, his conclusion is the exact opposite of Jesus' intention.

27:29

And it also seemed that he was saying, alright, now count. Count faith church now and see how many times.

27:38

I see they have a kitchen, you know, not a soup kitchen, but a pantry.

27:45

Count how many good things they do. And yes, given the number of years, you know, if you do one good thing each day, well, in 365 days you'll be up there.

27:57

And, you know, in less than two years you'll be up to 490. Well, then what? The truth is,

28:04

Scripture says, all your righteousnesses are as filthy rags when it comes to the issue of salvation.

28:12

So, again, they're saying good works are good. You should do 490 good works. Well, good works are good.

28:21

False teaching is bad, but good works are good. Keeping a record.

28:26

If I do good things and I say, okay, everybody, keep track of all the good things.

28:33

It sounds like, to me, it sounds like a boast. Like, watch me, watch us as we do all these amazing things.

28:44

The Bible does talk about when you do a good work, you don't go and blow a trumpet and have everybody watch.

28:52

You're going to lose your reward that way. So, yeah, it's just everything is the exact, just again and again, it's the exact opposite.

29:03

Okay, yes, Linda. I'm not sure you can separate the teacher from the message.

29:10

You know, that's cruel. Yeah. I mean, there is so much Scripture about, you know, whatever causes a little one to sin.

29:22

I mean, that's pretty severe, you know. Beware of false prophets.

29:30

I mean, it's really disturbing to me that even though we're talking about the article, if you look about Faith Church, it says in there there's a youth group and they have growth groups.

29:43

That sounds really ominous and distressing. So they're teaching young people this.

29:50

Yes. We love Linda, don't we? She's absolutely right.

29:56

You can't separate the teaching from the teacher.

30:03

I guess what I'm saying is I don't want them to be ad hominem attacks. You know, if I put out the article and somebody says, well, you can't listen to that guy from Morris Corner.

30:15

He doesn't even have his, you know, master's degree. You can't listen to him. He's uneducated.

30:21

He's an idiot. He's funny looking. Don't listen to this guy. Like, I guess that's what I'm saying as far as let's not attack the individual.

30:31

But, I mean, he's a false teacher. There's no question about that. And I say that based on his teaching.

30:40

Might be a nice guy. I don't know. But, you know, that's kind of the sin, I think, of American evangelical

30:46

Christianity. We are so concerned about being nice. And we want to be so nice and polite.

30:54

We don't want to ruffle any feathers. We don't want to offend anybody. And then, in the process, the truth is slain in the streets.

31:03

I think that's partly what has got us in this mess to begin with. Then when someone comes out with the truth, they seem like the outlier.

31:10

Like, what's their problem? Because nobody else is really doing it. Okay. Anything else before we move on?

31:18

Can I just add, I mean, the most disturbing line to me near the end was, may we prove the identity of Christ with our behavior to the community.

31:28

Okay. So, I mean, that was, to me, disturbing. Why? Because they're saying this is who

31:36

Christ is. Yes. So, it's not only themselves that they're saying that this is who

31:42

Christ is, too. Right. Of course, and again, the only thing they quoted about what

31:49

Christ said was from Matthew about forgiving. So, it comes down to the standard.

31:57

How do you know about Jesus? Well, you can either listen to what this guy says about Jesus, or you can read what

32:04

Jesus said in the scripture. So, it's your source of authority. Where are you getting your information from?

32:12

Yes, Marcus. Well, I heard the same, it seems as if he was even criticizing the previous pastor there, when the previous pastor there,

32:24

I thought was going right along, right along with these guidelines as far as sexual sin goes, as far as...

32:33

What part sounded critical of... Well, where he was, he was sounding like he was broadening the horizons from the previous.

32:43

Yeah, the last paragraph says that, basically. May we expand, you know.

32:49

But, I am... And also, just when you mentioned the Methodist Church, one of my early co -drivers, in fact, we always met down at the co -op early in the morning, he was a

33:01

Sunday school teacher in the Methodist Church. And of course, because of that, I felt free to discuss religion and was trying to share the gospel with him, which

33:13

I was able to do. And his final analysis of my brand of Christianity was that it was too exclusive and not inclusive enough.

33:26

And later, he shared with me that one of his

33:31

Sunday school young teenagers came to him and asked, if you committed suicide, would you still go to heaven?

33:40

And he said, yes. And that young person committed suicide. Well, I feel sorry for them both.

33:48

Just the same way I feel sorry for everyone who cannot understand the simple gospel.

33:58

When a child... I don't know what the age of accountability... With me, it was nine.

34:04

And with somebody else, it might have been four or five. But a child can understand they've done something wrong.

34:11

They know it. They can feel it. Whether it was just stealing a cookie, that was what I felt guilty about.

34:19

And then ice cream at the other neighbor's. And then breaking the other one's window.

34:25

Some of these things, there's not a definite answer. Age of accountability, there's no definite answer.

34:31

We don't want to be too dogmatic on things where there's not a clear answer. But yes,

34:37

Dad. Okay, I just want to go back to the article for a minute. It said,

34:42

So when I made decisions to leave the United Methodist Church, largely over its inability to universally welcome those with other sexual identities and orientations, the list of reasons came easily.

34:57

I did not need such a narrow ministry to be part of who I was.

35:04

However, when I considered the kind of pastor I did want to be, the kind of church

35:09

I did want to serve, I found myself needing God to make a list for me. Now you notice what's missing throughout the whole article.

35:19

The only scripture mentioned was the 70 times 7. That's got nothing to do with sexual orientation.

35:28

Right. Enlighten me if it does. No, I don't think so. So, I think the problem is here, he's talking about lists.

35:38

He wants to make a list. Then he said, I need God to make a list for me. Well, he's already made a list on the subject.

35:46

It's called the Holy Bible. Amen. So I'm not... He talks about it, and then he leaves you like he makes up his own list.

35:55

I'm glad you picked up on that. I need divine proof. He said, I needed God to make me a list, and then he goes on to talk about his own list.

36:05

Yeah, Joyce. In prayer, as you mentioned at all, what exactly is his viewpoint of God?

36:16

The God of the Bible. It's interesting because it's kind of hard to tell what he really thinks about God.

36:26

Right. I think that's a good question because his view of God, our view of God, is very different.

36:37

If you don't base it on the scripture, then it's kind of up for grabs, I think. Brenna. I think to go off of Phil's point, when he was talking about the list, it almost sounds like he's demanding from God to give him things.

36:53

God blesses us with things when it's in his plan. You don't just go and demand things from him, which is probably not right.

37:00

Yeah. I will say that evangelicals do that kind of thing. I don't think he's alone in that and asking, okay,

37:08

God, you need to come through, or God, I need you to do this. Not that that's right or I'm defending it, but I think a lot of people probably do that.

37:20

Okay, Jim. Colossians chapter 2 says, For I want you to know what a great comfort that I have for you and those who have fled of the seer, for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh, that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding and to the knowledge, the mystery of God, both of the

37:45

Father and of Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

37:51

Verse 8. Beware, lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ, for in him dwells all the fullness of the

38:09

Godhead body, and you are complete in him who is the head of all principality and power.

38:16

He doesn't even come close to emphasizing that, even if he didn't quote the verses.

38:25

To me, it was all about how he can run things and not have

38:30

God teach him how to run things. Yeah. Then again, that's plainly evident that we're going off of Bible verses and he's going off of something else.

38:42

I mean, that's obvious. So this, you've mentioned the traditions of men. I think that's what this is.

38:48

It's not the traditions you would think of in the past of the traditions of the Catholic Church, but they're new traditions.

38:55

They're traditions of this new progressive Christianity. It's not the

39:00

Bible. Marcus. Again, it's on the opposites. Isaiah 5 .20

39:06

says, Woe unto them that call evil good and good evil. Now this is the issue.

39:15

The Bible does say that homosexuality is sin. But the

39:23

Bible also says God loves sinners. So I would agree that God does love homosexuals.

39:32

He hates homosexuality or he hates homosexual acts, homosexual behavior.

39:42

We are all sinners. There is none righteous. No, not one. But for us to say that anything that the

39:50

Bible says is sin is not sin. That therein lies the real problem.

39:58

Right. Yeah. And again, I think from their perspective, they would hear, you know, you guys are just singling out homosexuals.

40:07

And why are you singling them out? What about, but we would recognize that we have all sinned and have come short of the glory of God.

40:17

I think the obsession of talking about this issue is from that group. Honestly, if I never talk about this topic for the rest of my life,

40:26

I'd be okay with that. They have raised it to that level, not us.

40:32

So we're just saying, well, no, this is what the Bible says. But the Bible condemns a lot of other behaviors, things that you do and I have done.

40:41

Right. So we all need forgiveness. So if any of them ever do watch this or catch wind of it, hey,

40:47

I need salvation just as much as they do. We all do. That's that's the point.

40:54

But this is just an obvious example of something that contradicts the teaching of Scripture.

40:59

So, all right. Anybody else who hasn't had a chance to speak yet? All right.

41:05

All right. Last thing. So perhaps the most revealing statement is in the last column, about halfway down, at least in my opinion, when he writes, so I asked my congregation to begin to forgive and heal the wounds of an

41:21

American Christianity that we have intentionally decided that we are not.

41:29

Right. I think he's admitted we're not. We're not Christians. I think that's that's what he's saying.

41:37

It's not American Christianity because this was in Europe and it was in the Middle East long before it came to America.

41:44

And I would argue the Christianity in Europe 500 years ago and the Christianity in the

41:49

Middle East 1800 years ago is a lot more conservative than American Christianity.

41:56

So when he says we are not that. Yeah, I think we can agree on that.

42:02

You're not. All right. Any final comments? So pray for the people of that church because they are being deceived as are millions and millions of people all throughout the

42:24

United States. And it's all being done in the name of love. So you need a biblical definition of love.

42:30

Love rejoices in what? Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13, Love does not rejoice in iniquity.