Pastor's Perspective Radio

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five. Three three three four one and now with today's topic.

Ezekiel 36 and 37: The New Heart, the New Spirit, and God’s Sovereign Regeneration

Here is James white. Therefore say the house of Israel thus says the Lord God is it not for your sake or house of Israel that I am about To act but for the sake of my holy name Which you have profaned among the nations to which you came and I will vindicate the holiness of my great name Which has been profaned among the nations in which you have profaned among them and The nations will know that I am Yahweh declares Yahweh Elohim the Lord God.

When through you I vindicate my holiness before their eyes. I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land and I will sprinkle clean water on you and you shall be clean from all your uncleanness and from all your idols.

I will cleanse you and I will give you a new heart and a new spirit. I will put within you and I'll remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers and you should be my people and I will be your God. And I will deliver you from all your uncleanness and I will summon the grain and make it abundant and lay no famine upon you.

I'll make the fruit of the tree and increase the field abundant that you may never again suffer the disgrace of famine among the nations. Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good and you will loathe yourselves for your iniquities and your abominations.

It is not for your sake that I will act declares the Lord God. Let that be known to you be ashamed and confounded for your ways. Oh house of Israel thus says the Lord God on the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities I will cause the cities to be inhabited and the waste places to be rebuilt and the land that was desolate shall be tilled instead of being the desolation that it was in the sight of all who passed by and they will say the land that was desolate has become like the Garden of Eden and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.

Then the nations are left all around you shall know that I am Yahweh. I have rebuilt the ruined places replanted that which was desolate. I am Yahweh. I have spoken and I Will do it. And that's a section of Ezekiel chapter 36 and Immediately after that we have another illustration given in Ezekiel 37 the hand of Yahweh was upon me and he brought me out in the spirit of Yahweh and set me down the middle of the valley it was full of bones and He led me around among them and behold there were very many on the surface of valley and behold.

They were very dry. And he said to me son of man Can these bones live and I answered? Oh Lord God, you know. Then he said to me prophesy over these bones and say them. Oh dry bones. Hear the word of Yahweh.

Thus says the Lord God to these bones behold I will cause breath to enter you and you shall live and I will lay sinews upon you and will cause Flesh to come upon you and cover you with skin and put breath in you and you shall live and you shall know that I am Yahweh.

So I prophesied as I was commanded and as I prophesied There was a sound and behold a rattling and the bones came together bone to its bone. I Looked and behold there were sinews on them and flesh had come upon them and skin had covered them.

But there was no breath in them. Then he said to me prophesy to the breath prophesy son of man say to the breath thus says the Lord God come from the four winds. Oh breath and breathe on these slain. That they may live.

So I prophesied as he commanded me and the breath came into them and they lived and stood on their feet and exceeding great army. Then he said to me son of man these bones of the whole house of Israel.

Behold, they say our bones are dried up. Our hope is lost. We are indeed cut off therefore prophesy and say to them that says the Lord God behold I will open your graves and raise you from your graves.

Oh my people and I will bring you into the land of Israel and you shall know that I am Yahweh when I open your graves and raise you from your graves. Oh my people here two texts. Side by side in order in Ezekiel chapter 36 picked up by the New Testament.

Indeed this is the background of Jesus words in John 6 that new spirit that being born again. Two Old Testament pictures just we have in Jeremiah 31 the new covenant and a new people. But what did you hear over and over and over and over again?

Was this Israel accomplishing these things. Was this Israel turning to God of its own free will. There was only one free will and all of this discussion and it was God's. Thus says the Lord God Ezekiel 36 22 it is not for your sake.

Oh house of Israel that I am about to act. But for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations to which you came. Who is the one who acts here? This isn't prevenient grace. This isn't God just making salvation possible.

This is God saving and for his own name his own holiness his own purpose of vindication of himself. This is the difference between God centered salvation and man centered salvation. It's God who accomplishes these things and The purpose is the nations will know that I am Yahweh.

Just as in the destruction of Egypt. Just as in the destruction of the gods of Egypt in the plagues God is making his power. Known and is in that context. That we read these words. I will sprinkle clean water on you and you shall be clean from all your uncleanness and from all your idols.

I will cleanse you and I will give you a new heart and a new spirit. I will put within you. I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. Ezekiel 36 26. I Will put my spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statues be careful to obey my law verse 27.

These are descriptions beautiful descriptions of the work of the Spirit and regeneration the new covenants in the blood of Jesus Christ prophesied long before. The fulfillment takes place now in light of that a Few weeks ago.

In fact, I believe it's right before I went to London. I Asked a question. We were listening to the folks on the pastor's perspective program. And we were asking about The issue of I Have no idea what that noise was either but you're looking at me like I did it and I didn't.

I did nothing here whatsoever. Don't look at me with that condemning look. I didn't do anything. I'm just in here preaching. You're the one with all the knobs man. Not me. Okay, I asked a question of Brian Broderson and Chuck Smith and Everybody that all the guests hosts and everything else who are constantly emphasizing the free will of man the autonomy of man.

God responds to man, but man is the one who makes this determination. How do they understand this text? There is a constant drumbeat of God's sovereignty God's freedom God's preeminence and the absolute deadness of man.

Only thing man does here is rebel and die. And can you imagine what it was like when God told Ezekiel? You know being Ezekiel was rough. God told Ezekiel to do a lot of really weird things. He takes him to this valley filled with dry bones.

And he says Ezekiel prophesied to the bones. Prophesied to the bones. Can you imagine if if Ezekiel was a rationalist? Oh Well, God, there really isn't any reason to do that. They're they're dead bones prophesied of the bones Ezekiel.

Ezekiel's faithful and he's obedient. And can you imagine what that rattling sound was like as those bones come together and they're covered with sinews and then with flesh. Now there's bodies lying everywhere.

Sometimes people ask us. Why do you evangelize if you if you believe men are dead and sin, why bother? Well, I'll just ask you. Why do you think Ezekiel prophesied to the bones? Because God told him to that's why Ezekiel was obedient.

God took care of the rest. Ezekiel didn't have to ask God For some kind of explanation about why he did what he was supposed to do. God took care of the rest. But I asked the question how would those men on the pastor's perspective in light of the drumbeat of God's freedom the deadness of man and Especially this text the heart of stone.

Did you catch the the depth of what this prophecy is telling us. Let's do it again. I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. There's something wrong When a man who is made of flesh has a heart of stone.

Men shouldn't have hearts of stone but that's a description of the natural man the man outside of Christ who has not been brought into spiritual union with Christ as a heart of stone in his flesh and I'm tempted to make application to All the atheists with whom I have encounters and everything else.

There's a lot that we could preach on from here. But what I want you to hear is the text. I Will remove the heart of stone. How can we get from that? To the honestly twisted and perverted idea. That what God's really saying here is I.

I would I would like to change your heart of stone. But I can't until your heart of stone enables me because I'm a gentleman. How did we get there? How did these texts that scream? The sovereignty of God the freedom of God.

How do we get to the point where those those texts are muted in favor of the sovereignty of man. I Will remove the heart of stone from your flesh. Not when your heart of stone enables me to do so and freely invites me to do so.

You see it's the heart of flesh that desires God. It's the heart of flesh that repents. It's the heart of flesh that believes. So you see God must act first. God must be free. So I asked the question on this program.

I said Wonder how they deal with this because I've never heard him address it. They have their pet texts that George Bryson has basically directed them to he's the head of anti reformed propaganda amongst Calvary chapels.

And so they have their their particular texts they go to. I've never heard him deal with this. So I was in London back on the 25th of February. Someone called in and asked and We're gonna listen to that entire call uninterrupted.

You'll listen to the entire call once I plug it in. It's plugged in now. I wasn't I wasn't I hadn't started it. I just just looked down there and saw the plug laying there and said, you know if I play right now.

It's not going to function very well. So now it's plugged in you listen to the entire call. I might even get interrupted. I Want you to hear? What I said Jesus sounds like when your traditions Have determined your theology rather than the text.

What does that sound like? Well, here it is. And I really hope the fellow who called in is Listening. I'd love to hear from. I would love to hear from this man. To find out if he feels like his question got answered.

He says he's been listening to the dividing line. But since he was talking to folks from Calvary Chapel, he had to in essence apologize For listening to me and you can hear Brian Burris and say why. I try to listen to James why as little as possible.

Okay, you know, that's fine. I The only reason I listen to the pastor's perspective program at all is when someone writes it says they said X Y or Z. So Okay, that's fine. No, no problem. But I want you to hear an Honest question about this text you tell me If they responded here's from the February 25th program pastor's perspective Brian Broderson Answering a question on Ezekiel chapter 36.

I'm not hearing anything.

You both of you guys Brian and Joe with their thoughts. I just love listening to your ministries. I'm looking to you a lot. Hey, I'm sitting in Calvary Chapel Murrieta here under Brian Braille for about 18 years and And I just love sitting under him he's a great pastor great Shepherd.

At the same time. I've also had the opportunity to start studying under some of the different teachers who podcast like the RC scroll John Piper, you know, listen to Greg Coco a lot and even John McCarthy and all these guys are very reformed in their thinking.

Right. You know, I've listened to you a lot and I've seen a lot of unfruitful Hits on this Calvinism. Arminianism debates. I think last week. I listened to a guy call and talked to you and your wife and Yeah, I Just thought there's something that was unfruitful.

And I you know, cuz no one's gonna decide something over a couple minutes of conversation it just doesn't happen. And I also hit that you kind of took Towards the beginning of the month. I think it was when a guy called in and you and Don and Chuck were talking and and Forgive me if I'm paraphrasing you right here, but something about Calvinism doesn't have the heart of Jesus am I saying that right?

Yeah, right. And listening to people and then please don't cringe here, but I just got recently turned on to James White and And he was critiquing some of this stuff and I'm sure you've been listening to it, I'm assuming.

And I tried to listen to James White as little as possible, but.

You know, but since I work janitorial and I work at night I have an opportunity to listen and critique all these guys on what They're saying. And I just got done reading your blog today. But I also he said something and I and I was trying to figure it out myself.

And Ezekiel 36 about how you know, we have a heart of stone and God gives us a heart of flesh. Well, he said something like this and I'm trying to figure this one out. Maybe you can help me with it. It says do we as Christians, you know with the heart of stone?

Choose to do what is right before God and therefore He takes out that heart of stone. We choose to do what is right and then gives us a heart of flesh. Now, how would we answer that?

Well, it sounds like the references to the classic Calvinistic view of Regeneration before faith that before you can do anything. That's right. You've got to have your heart of stone taken out and you got to have a new heart put in you.

Before you can even believe and that is that's the of Calvinism with the Total depravity it is also a total inability and we personally Joe and I and many others reject that position not that a man You know can't believe and needs to be regenerated before he can believe.

But people refuse to believe. But to me and I was having the same conversation with Brett last week as she referred to it it. This seems to be getting the cart before the horse. It seems especially from John chapter 3 the classic passage on the new birth regeneration.

Jesus seems to link it to belief and You know, I just the insistence that this is the other way around. I think this is a classic example as I mentioned in my article of trying to impose or force Impose the five points on the Bible or force the Bible to conform to this five-point system.

Joe. Yeah, I mean, it's it's very clear that the regeneration follows faith and if it doesn't then we have this precarious position of Explaining why God regenerates this person and why he doesn't Regenerate that person if God has the capability to save all people.

But he chose just to save this one though. He could have saved this other one and he didn't. If he was in a court of law, he'd be thrown in prison. If you can save somebody who's drowning even though they're breaking the law.

You may be held culpable for not attempting to save that person. So it ends up putting God in a corner that is really difficult for him to get out of if we're gonna say that Regeneration comes before faith and that's what R .C. Sproul has been saying and in most of the reform movement has been saying but that just seems to be Putting the cart as Brian said before the horse.

It just puts the one thing ahead of another and so it's it's difficult. Yeah, and and they they tend to base that on the idea. That comes from Paul's statement in Ephesians chapter 2 that you were dead in your trespasses and sins.

But it seems to us that they take this idea of dead in trespasses and sins beyond what Paul intended to mean. When he said that they take it to the point where and they will ask questions. What can a dead man, you know, what can a dead man do.

And obviously from you know. If we're talking about a physically dead man, he can't do anything. And so then likewise will a spiritually dead man can't do anything a spiritually dead man can't believe so he has to be made alive First.

Thus the regeneration comes and then the belief comes afterward. Yeah, that's well said Brian and when we take Ephesians 2 we're dead in our trespasses and sins. I mean a person can be either dead in an intensive sense.

Which means the image of God or the faculty for volition is actually dead and it's inoperable completely separated from God. Or you can define that deadness as an Extensive deadness. In other words, it extends to all part of our being both material and immaterial.

But it doesn't annihilate any capacity to choose. So if we can take dead to be Extensive and not intensive will be okay. And when when the Calvinist actually starts Telling us that we're dead and we can do nothing for ourselves.

Remember deadness is only one model of the human condition in Scripture. It also tells us that we are sick and we know that sick people can do something for themselves. It tells us we're blind blind people can do something for themselves.

And we're poor we're blind we're naked in need of a physician. Dead people don't need physicians anymore. So if we don't overemphasize the deadness of man, even though we know we're totally depraved. But not in an intensive sense.

We're depraved in an extensive sense. And so The overemphasis on deadness is causing this whole total depravity dilemma to take a turn where it wasn't really intended to go. So we need to be sure that we're looking at deadness Scripturally and in Scripture dead is always referring to separation never Annihilation.

We have deadness in reference to the afterlife. You're dead. You're separated from your body. James says the spirit is separated from its body. Or if we're talking about the eternal death. We're talking about an eternal separation from God but it is never ever described in Scripture as an annihilation or a Rendering of nothingness to a capacity of man.

And when one last comment on that, of course the great illustration of what it actually refers to is Adam himself. Who was told by God in the day that you eat of this you will die. Thus he died when he ate but as you mentioned Joe He his faculty to commune with God was not annihilated.

He was separated from God, but he still had Communion with God. God met him in the garden. God spoke to him. God clothed him. God promised him of course the first messianic promise in Genesis 3 15. So Adam poses I think a tremendous problem for the Calvinistic view of what dead means because he was dead.

He was the one who was told you're gonna be dead. But yet he still has this capacity to Hear God. God comes into the garden and speaks to him. Where are you. And that's right. Yeah response, but Okay, I think we have said enough about that topic for the day.

So let's move on.

There you go religion throw up. There you go. There you go. We've said about enough about that. We We didn't say a word about Ezekiel 36 26, but we said enough about that absolutely amazing. Absolutely amazing.

Cite the text and depart very quickly there from because they don't have an answer. I'm not saying that to be a Troublemaker or anything else. I don't believe they have an answer because their tradition is not Robust enough to provide an answer.

It's just not there Ezekiel 36 26 completely ignored by Brian Brodersen and his co-host on pastors perspective. I'm sorry for the caller. He didn't get an answer. I Would love to invite that caller. Maybe not listening live listen to the podcast find a time and you can call in.

I'd like to hear from you. I'd like to see if you feel you got an answer. Because they have no answer. The text is in opposition to them and they immediately ran off and just kept repeating the things they've been taught.

What you just heard was tradition. You've heard it from Dave hunt. You've heard from Noren Geisler. You've heard it from Chuck Smith. Now you're hearing from Brian Brodersen and his co-hosts. It's just tradition.

That's not exegesis. That's not teaching the Bible. So I think we've demonstrated without question that the text says what the text says. We don't have to run from it we can actually look at it in context and discuss the language and see the connections the new test we can deal with Ezekiel 36, but Very briefly just a couple of things that were said in response.

God could be thrown in prison for not trying to save everyone. Really. So did you you need to understand that that's a very common might well if God just doesn't try to say I mean you could be held culpable for that as if the logs is outside of God, but even beyond that.

That mindset is very deeply entrenched that results in a twisted view of man's sin and God's holiness and hence of God's grace. Because God's grace becomes something that's demanded and no longer free and grace.

It is not free is no longer grace. That's why they prefer a peanut butter grace where God at least tries but fails. Prize then it's okay because then he he can't be brought up on charges as. If God is under any obligation any Obligation to be gracious to any one.

Don't you understand those of you who hold this position? Don't you realize how backwards that is to everything else you say you believe this is where the inconsistency comes in. Do you really want to say God is under obligation?

To be gracious. What about what about holiness? Isn't the whole point of the cross the amazing grace of God that he would do this not because he's under obligation, but he does so freely. Amazing. That someone can make that type of argumentation.

Dead only means separation never annihilation as if we believe that something is annihilated. Remember this is the common straw man misrepresentation. You can't accurately argue against the position. So you build straw men so it sounds like you're actually Accomplishing something as if we say something's been someone has been annihilated.

Man's will has not been annihilated. It's been enslaved. The one doing sin is the slave of sin. That's Jesus's own teaching. Do you hear that capacity of man capacity of man? I'm just struck how many times we have.

God is able. Jesus is able he is able to save the uttermost. God is able to to draw those to Christ. He is able to raise them all in the last day. God's ability. God's ability. God's ability. What do we have that man?

Man is unable to hear. Man is unable to come unable to do this unable to submit himself. And what does man's traditions do reverses it. Man is capable. God has to be able to fail. Tradition that turns things on its head.

Upside down backwards all the sake of man's almighty will. Adam poses a tremendous problem, you know, he heard God speaking. He wasn't spiritually dead. What did he do when he heard God speaking? He separated himself he hid.

He knew he was naked. He tried to he tried to come up with his own way of covering its nakedness with the fig leaves. God has to provide the proper covering. There you go. One of the clearest examples of we don't have an answer.

But we're gonna pretend like we're gonna we're gonna talk about the Bible. Anyways, if you don't have an answer just be honest say I don't know never thought that one before. But I'm not willing to examine it.

That seems to be what was going on. They're amazing stuff. Absolutely amazing. Because this is the same man who says well Calvinism doesn't have the heart of Jesus and yet I can never imagine Jesus handling scripture like that.

You look like you're wanting to say something. Well, we're on the subject of Brian Broderson and the Calvary Chapel show there and their callers. One of the things that struck me in their previous call that we discussed had to do with the first John 5 1 and I'd like you to address the issue of the fact the NIV The New American Standard the King James New King James that all these different translations.

He was clearly reading from one of those translations yet I got the impression that he sort of capitulated a little bit to the collar on the has-been Translation as opposed to the present tense is translation.

I'd like you to address that well We didn't play that particular call the the guy who called in and was trying to present first John 5 1. He properly Explained the relationship of the present tense. The the participle the one believing with the perfect tense has been born, but then seemingly just abandoned that.

People have said well, why does the ESV have? Everyone who believes Jesus is the Christ has been born of God and he SS whoever believes Jesus Christ is born of God. Both are perfectly fine translations because we're talking about the perfect tense the perfect tense in Greek Has reference to a completed action the past with abiding results the present.

Therefore whenever you're translating a perfect tense verb You have to make a syntactical decision as to what the emphasis is upon is the emphasis upon The completed action in the past or is the emphasis upon the abiding results in the present the continuing state that comes from that the ESV renders that with an emphasis upon the Completed the the complete action in the past hence has been born of God and continues to be born of God Whereas the NASB renders it is born of God.

That is he is right now born of God not denying the perfect tense but we just don't have anything in English that really Can handle that and in fact, that's why you have like the amplified translation, which is next to impossible to read.

But at least I haven't looked at the amplified but something tells me It attempts to bring that out and say has been is etc, etc. Because both are reflected in the meaning of the term, but either translation Is not changing the reality of the fact that everyone who is right now believing that Jesus is the Christ has true saving faith.

Has that true saving faith because they have been born from God. That's the point and that's what men don't like because that again places the very essence of salvation Into the hands of God to freely do with it as he pleases and that's what man doesn't want.

That's what man rejects that meant that man says I can't be I won't allow it and Yet that is very clearly the testimony of Scripture 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 is the phone number? Skype at dividing dot line.

Twitter at dr. Oakley 1689. Is the addresses by which you can get hold of me? Before we go to our first phone call. Which is somewhat relevant to the topic, but I before we Get buried in that there was one more thing.

I wanted to play for you. I'll be very brief. It's not nearly as long as the others Let me find about where it was. So we don't have to listen to the whole thing this is a recording of a program from many many moons ago this is Actually this aired Only last last year, but I'm not sure when the recording was when this actually recording took place.

But this is dr. Eric and Kanner giving his act 16 sermon slash testimony thing which he's done a number of times. I've listened to various versions of it now and I want you to catch some statements that he makes here in regards to his own past.

Why did they have this. The conviction to stick around here it is. They knew there was a soul at stake. We leave we go to Macedonia Troas Crete we go somewhere else. We live another day that guy. They're either gonna take his life or he kills himself.

They knew it. What do you do? They had the conviction to stick around. You see churches that act like churches. Have the conviction to stick around because there are souls at stake. It's not about our buildings.

It's not about our programs. It's the fact that there are souls at stake. It's the fact that there are souls dangling over the gaping maw of hell that there are people who are dangling by the Precipice of a razor's edge.

Wondering if there's somebody who's got something that's worth living for. In other words my friends my brothers my sisters that means that churches that act like churches understand this principle we don't build and Program and budget and organize and implement for all those who are already here.

You've been saved 50 years. Wonderful. You've been saved 100 years. Great. This church your church doesn't exist for you. Your church this church our churches are supposed to build and program and organize and implement and give and budget for the souls that Are not here yet.

Okay, now I'm giving you context so you can see what it is. I've been talking about that. It's the audience. Exciting Ergon Kanner that almost always results in his exaggerations. In other words if Ergon Kanner was preaching Greek foreign Baptists. He'd never exaggerate anything because they never get him rolling.

Sitting there staring at him. He'd tell the truth the whole time see theology matters.

Do you know why that's so important? Do you know why that's so important? Cuz somebody stuck around for you. Somebody stuck around for me. I came here as a missionary to you. I didn't know Christians.

I thought you hated me. Everything I ever learned about American Christianity. I learned in the mosque from my imam or from my madrasa a training center and So every other place I'd ever lived. I lived there as a as a majority person.

I always lived in the majority Islamic countries, then I come to America. Can I just stop right there? Sweden is not a majority Islamic country and he lived in Sweden. Why say that? Why say that? I don't.

I don't understand it. That's one of the reasons I've asked the question. When did he live in Turkey? He was not born in Turkey. His mother is Swedish. Were his brothers born in Turkey? These are questions that I think need to be answered and I hope they they will be but we haven't gotten to the whole point.

My father was a Moiseen. I'm the oldest of three sons to his wife. This one wife. He had many wives. Had many wives. Many. Why I came as a faithful and devout Muslim. Every debate I've ever had Muslim oh, you do not understand Islam.

Oh, you need to understand the Arabic. Let's dance. That was my language before English. Catch that.

That Was my language before English. Arabic was my language before English. So this is just last year. November of last year is when this aired. So I'm not sure when this was recorded last year February 25th 2010 is Statement posted on his website just brought it up.

As for the countless other volleys aimed at scouting the work I do I'm unsure how to respond if my pronunciation of Arabic phrase is not correct. Then I apologize the language of my lineage is Turkish not Arabic.

Which is the truth? What he just said to this audience. Which was in what context my debates which don't happen with Muslims. Oh. But Arabic is my first language. Arabic's not my first language, which one is it?

I Have a feeling it's what he types. When he doesn't have an audience in front of him clapping and a many and hanging on his every word I think it's what's in his statement, but you get him from an audience and he loses control.