Is It OK to Leave My Church If I Break Up with Another Church Member?

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Christ Alone, Wrath, and Final Judgment

People are tired of hearing nothing but doom and despair on the radio. The message of Christianity is that salvation is found in Christ alone, and any who reject Christ therefore forfeit any hope of salvation, any hope of heaven.

The issue is that humanity is in sin, and the wrath of almighty God is hanging over our heads. They will hear his words, they will not act upon them, and when the floods of divine judgment, when the fires of wrath come, they will be consumed and they will perish.

God wrapped himself in flesh, condescended and became a man, died on the cross for sin, was resurrected on the third day, has ascended to the right hand of the Father, where he sits now to make intercession for us.

Jesus is saying there is a group of people who will hear his words, they will act upon them, and when the floods of divine judgment come in that final day, their house will stand.

The Question of Leaving Church After a Breakup

Welcome to Bible Bash, where we aim to equip the saints for the work of ministry by answering the questions you're not allowed to ask. We're your hosts, Harrison Kering and Pastor Tim Mullett, and today we'll answer the age-old question, is it okay to leave my church if I break up with another church member?

Now Tim, as we kick this episode off, what Bible verse do you have to read for us related to breaking up with another church member and whether or not you should stay there?

Sure, so 1 Timothy 5, 1 -2 says, Do not rebuke an older man, but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers and older women as mothers, younger women as sisters in all purity.

So there.

Okay, so explain the relevance, you know, with that Bible verse to breaking up with another church member.

Yeah, I mean, your current relationship status really isn't a thing. I mean, Paul basically views single people. I mean, there's only a few categories in the Bible. There's married and there's single.

So there's no, you know, Facebook interrelationship status or whatever else. That isn't really real. So whatever you're doing as a church member when you're trying to pursue a member of the opposite sex, you know, your dating relationship, quote-unquote, is not conferring upon you any rights or privileges.

Essentially, it's all make-believe. It's all pretend that you're doing. So then what you're doing is you're basically saying, Am I allowed to leave my church because this pretend relationship that I entered into ended?

So it's kind of a silly question.

Well, yeah, and that's something I was going to ask you about to try and kick off the episode was, you know, how much of this kind of conversation is actually a conversation surrounding the modern approach to dating in general?

Because it would have been very different back then, presumably. But for us, you know, it's basically like a, in a lot of ways, it's almost like a, Hey, you're kind of married without actually really being married.

At least that's how people view it. And so, you know, the question is, I mean, when you're looking at, Hey, you know, I just broke up with this girl, or I just broke up with this guy. I feel like I need to leave.

How much of that is actually a conversation about, Well, you probably approached trying to find a spouse in an inappropriate way, you know, versus just, Hey, you should or you shouldn't leave the church.

Yeah. So I mean, people are inescapably made. They're made in the image of God. They know that it's not good for a man to be alone. And so they know that they're made for marriage, whether or not they're actually pursuing marriage.

And for many people, be like dating, whatever that is, is essentially for them. I mean, it's a mechanism that they're using to get some of the benefits of marriage without the commitment of marriage. So, I mean, almost in the best case scenario, I mean, even in almost the best case scenario, most people are viewing it as if there are some rights or benefits that are conferred upon them by virtue of their changed relationship status.

So they're trying to get something that they're supposed to be getting out of marriage. And that, as you're saying, that's leading them to this conclusion that when they break up, I mean, it's almost like a divorce for them, basically.

So it's almost like a divorce for them. And I think that is an indictment on the way that they're thinking about whatever it is that they're doing. So in different social arrangements, you would not play pretend marriage for a period of time before you decide whether or not you're going to commit to it, if that makes sense, like totally in the context of marriage.

Right, yeah, yeah. And so you're basically saying, yeah, so you are basically saying, hey, there is a very inappropriate, you know, there is a very inappropriate approach to dating, well, approach to finding a spouse that's happening here, right?

Yeah, I'm not invested in what people call it,.

So to speak.

You know, I don't really, I'm not invested in what the name that people use to describe what they're doing, is, but then it's very obvious that in modern dating, most people, they don't view this person as being a sister in Christ solely.

They view them as something else. So they're viewing them basically as a quasi spouse. And then when you break up with a quasi spouse, they're viewing it as a quasi divorce. When you have a divorce, then you don't want to see the person week in and week out.

So they're not approaching this as a sister in Christ relationship purely. That's not what they're doing. So then, because they're not approaching it that way, then what's happening is,.

If it ends,.

Then they were something more than a sister in Christ to them, and that gave them some kind of benefits or something along those lines. So that basically means that, yeah, it would be way too awkward, and, you know, my emotions are so tied up into this relationship now that, you know, basically I have to depart, leave.

It'd just be too awkward, man. So, yeah, yeah, it's an indictment in the modern way that they're thinking about it for sure.

So then, you know, when you're talking about a situation where someone is breaking up with someone else, and then they're saying, hey, because of this breakup, I've got to leave, I've got to go, there's no way I can stay, would you view that?

I mean, it feels like, you know, the answer to this is maybe obvious, but just so we can kind of, you know, try to tie this back to Scripture as much as possible and try to point this to as many commands as possible given to the local church, would you say that that kind of approach to church membership and to this kind of courting process or whatever you want to call it is a violation of, you know, various passages of Scripture that call us to unity?

So for example, like Ephesians chapter 4, verses 4 through 6, they say, you know, there is one body and one spirit just as you also were called in one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

So you have a verse where it's basically saying, hey, you're one, you're one, you're one, and not because of anything other than what God has done on your behalf.

And then, you know,.

Later on in verse 13, it says, let's see, until we all attain the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

So we're seeking to, you know, the Bible says that we're seeking to obtain unity with one another in all ways. And so, and there's some, you know, there's other verses too, like 1 Corinthians 12, verses 12 through 13, 1 Peter 3, verse 8, that are all similarly calling us to have unity with one another.

So then if we're, if we're approaching dating as essentially a, hey, look, I've got to go because, you know, because I was dating this girl and now we've broken up and I just can't be here anymore. In your mind, is that like a clear violation of like, well, you're not pursuing unity anymore at that point.

Is that fair to say?

Yeah, I think it's definitely a violation of the unity of the body, for sure. I mean, I think it's a violation of the principle of family, right? So the body is meant to be one family. So, I mean, you can, it's very difficult to imagine a situation where, you know, you and your biological sister.

Decide that you have.

Unreconcilable differences. You can no longer attend church together or something like that. I mean, unless they sinned against you in some very significant way, but the problem is that the church has a church discipline process that would presumably take care of that, right?

So in a real marriage, you know, a real marriage in the Bible is till death do you part, right? Real marriage is till death do you part. So in that kind of arrangement, then if there's going to be like a lawful divorce, that means that one person has sinned in such a way that they need to be church members, church disciplined and excommunicated, right?

So there wouldn't be a situation where two faithful church members who are married have a, you know, amicable disagreement and then they get divorced and then they stay in the same church. You know, if you have a divorce that happens, one of them needs to be church disciplined,.

Presumably, right?

I mean, that's in most cases. Now, maybe you could conceive of a situation where a man, you know, one of them commits adultery or whatever and then there's some kind of disciplinary process. They come back on the other side repentant, but then, I mean, if that all happens, you know, maybe there's not an obligation to take them back, but basically what I'm saying is in most situations, I mean, there could be some conceivable situation where that could happen where they're still members of the same church, but in most situations you're probably going to deal with it through church discipline and it's going to resolve itself.

But then, I mean, these are family relationships and you should be thinking about your brothers and sisters in Christ as family members with all purity. Like, that's the status that you have. Now, you know, if you have romantic intentions towards them, you shouldn't be putting those out there in such a way that if it doesn't work, you fundamentally, like, you're just so devastated to the point where you can never see the person again.

I mean, you should be pursuing dating or whatever you're doing in such a way that it would be perfectly fine to go to the same church with them if it doesn't work out. No, like you shouldn't. If you are at a point where if they say no, someone has to leave, then either you have a sinful level of insecurity, right?

Which is fueled by pride. So, there's some kind of sinful level of insecurity that basically means that you can no longer face them anymore because you're so deeply ashamed because they rejected you or something like that.

Like, that's a problem, right? Either there's some kind of sinful insecurity or you're looking at this relationship in such a way that you are getting something from it that you shouldn't be. But, I mean, everyone should approach dating, whatever you want to call it.

They should be approaching that in such a way that it acknowledges the sovereignty of God and acknowledges the purpose of what you're doing is to find out if they're worth marrying, right? Like, if you're a good fit.

So, I mean, if you're approaching marriage in that way, not as a desperate person who's looking for validation.

Or something like that.

If you're approaching it with the knowledge that God is sovereign and I'm trying to discern what His will is for this situation and if I find out that His will is that we don't get married because they don't want to marry me, then that's fine.

Like, I learned something valuable. Like, I'm glad I figured that out. You know, so you should have Christians who are mature enough to be pursuing these kind of relationships with the goal of trying to find out if this is worth, like, if this is going to lead to marriage.

And you should, like, it should be okay, like, yes or no. If it's not okay, yes or no, then you've obviously made this person a monstrous idol, right? Or you've made marriage itself an idol. And so there's something significant has gone wrong there.

I mean, there's no good way that you can conceive of such a situation where this thing ends and you're both, like, it's just too painful to go to church. I mean, unless they sinned against you in some significant way, but if they sinned against you in some significant way and not just the sin of saying no, it's marriage to you.

But if they really sinned against you in a significant way, then that would be a church discipline case. You know, I mean, maybe you can imagine some kind of scenario where they sinned against you in a big way and the church is refusing your church discipline and then you feel like you have to go, okay, but that's different.

That's an additional complication on the kind of question we're asking. We're not asking the question if someone sins against you in a big way and they refuse to discipline them should you leave. Maybe in that situation, depending on what the sin is, we're asking the question, if you break up, does that mean it's okay to leave because you're too embarrassed, presumably, or too heartbroken to face the reality of being in a church.

Where you're not pretending.

Like you belong to each other anymore. So that's kind of absurd for sure.

Guarding the Heart and Pursuing Marriage Wisely

So what advice would you give to people who are in that kind of stage where they're looking for a spouse? What advice would you give them to essentially protect themselves from that kind of situation where all of a sudden, hey, if we do break up or whatever you want to call it, we don't feel like we're going to, we don't feel like we can just never be around each other anymore.

What advice would you give to the person asking that kind of question?

Yeah, I mean there's a lot of biblical passage related to that. I mean, there's the guard your heart with all diligence from it flow streams of life. Now, I mean, that, you know, there's an entire movement of people who have taken that verse and basically used it as a license to be completely unapproachable to members of the opposite sex or something like that because you're trying to guard your heart and you don't want to do anything to communicate interest whatsoever.

You know, so you just standoffish and basically just playing this, I'm waiting for my future, you know, Prince Charming kind of game while I'm sending all the signals of unavailability to everyone around me.

You know, you may be waiting.

For a long time if that's the case.

I don't think that's what.

Guarding your heart means. But I mean, certainly, yeah, you should guard your heart with all diligence from it flow springs of life. I mean, that is directed towards a man, right? From your heart flow springs of life.

So that's making biological reference there. You know, so I mean, certainly you should, Solomon says to my son, don't give your strength to women. You should be like a desperate person who is just needy and developing some sort of codependent relationship where you need some woman to come along and validate you and affirm you.

I mean, you should be confident in the Lord. You should be trusting in him. You should be trusting in the sovereignty of God. You should be approaching dating in such a way that you're, not that you're trying to have someone validate you as a person or, you know, gain approval from society because you're no longer single or something like that.

I mean, you should be approaching dating in such a way that says God's sovereign. If he wants, like I want to fulfill his purposes.

In the world.

He says it's not good for man to be alone, right? He says it's not good for man to be alone. He tells me to be fruitful and multiply. I want to obey that. I want to do what he says. So I'm going to trust him to give me an opportunity to obey him.

I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to be so desperate for this for self-centered reasons. I want to be faithful to God, right? So I think if you're approaching dating in such a way where you're thinking I'm trying to be faithful to God, I'm going to trust him to give me what I need in his timing, if that's what you're doing, then you're not going to be approaching dating as some kind of needy person who is looking for validation, who is desperate to find some member of the opposite sex.

What you're going to be doing is you're going to look at this relationship, like look at a potential relationship, and your objective is going to be more I'm trying to find out whether or not this person is worth marrying, and I'm willing to accept the answer yes or no.

So that's what you're doing. I'm going to try to figure out if they're worth marrying. I'm okay with either answer, but until I get married to them, then I'm going to treat them as a sister in Christ with all purity.

And that doesn't mean I'm just, I'm not going to try to awaken or stir up love till it pleases in the language of the song of songs. That means I'm going to actually, I'm going to view this as a brother-sister relationship.

And if I want it to be more than that, I have to put a ring on it and go commit and get married, right? That's the thing. And so if people were to view dating like that, like we're still brothers and sisters in Christ, I don't get exclusive access to them.

I don't get the rights or exclusive access to them. I don't get any physical affection kind of benefits that other people don't get, right? I don't get anything from this until I'm willing to commit to it.

That would drive them to commit faster because they're not trying to leech off of this relationship and have some kind of pretend marriage, this giving them emotional security, giving them relational security.

Worst case scenario, giving them physical gratification, whatever. That's not what you're doing with it. So I would recommend people, this may be shocking to most people, but I would recommend that people approach dating in more of a casual way and less of a serious way.

Meaning I would recommend them, most people think that the way you approach dating, whatever that is, is to be just completely serious, like fully emotionally committed to an outcome at the very beginning almost with blinders on your eyes, unwilling to conceive the possibility that it could work.

So most people describe dating as, well, the purpose of dating is marriage. It's like, well, no, the purpose of dating is to figure out whether or not you want to marry somebody.

So whatever you call it,.

Whatever you call this mechanism, and I think there's wiser ways to do it and there's poorer ways to do it. I mean, I think having isolated, you know, one-on-one, very unaccountable romantic way of pursuing it is not wise.

I think involving parents and family members and more people is better, you know. Certainly, I mean, you may want to have some conversations. I mean, you know, a lot of people almost rule out the possibility of ever having, you know, one-on-one conversations that are not chaperoned with another human being before you marry them.

I would say that you might want to have a few of those, you know, however you go about doing that, but certainly it shouldn't be an attempting environment, whatever. But yeah, I think you should be approaching dating in such a way that you're trying to figure out whether or not you want to marry them.

I think it's okay for it to be fun. Like, it doesn't have to be just like this depressing kind of overly serious kind of thing, you know,.

And I don't think it's,.

I think casual dating is better than, you know, really formal dating. Like, meaning you should be, you know, like the idea of you're just making some kind of exclusive commitment to an individual that you don't even know does not lend itself to good outcomes in most of the cases.

So, I mean, most of the time, like, you just know a few things about them and they're probably a fantasy that you've worked up in your mind and they're very different in reality than what you realize that they are.

And so, I mean, I think just low pressure, low commitment interactions designed to, you know, see if they're worth marrying or helpful at that point over and against these extended, long-term committed pretend marriage way that most people are approaching it.

You know, so, I mean, like if a guy were to say, hey, I'd like to take out, I mean, the pickings are pretty slim nowadays, but so I don't even know that these kinds of scenarios really happen apart from, you know, hookup culture anymore because the options are just not there.

But I mean, in a former generation, you may go out with one girl a week, you know, I think two girls a week, you know, for a long period of time just to figure out what members of the opposite sex are about.

I mean, I think that's a lot better than what we're doing now. You know, if you're not attaching to that hookup culture expectations.

Or something like that,.

I think that's a lot more realistic and reasonable, you know.

That's really interesting. That's really interesting that you would say that because I think, you know, I think if you were to have a guy in a situation where he is, you know, taking a girl, you know, a different girl out each week for like two or three weeks in a row, I think you'd probably have three to four women who are all pretty upset in that scenario.

You know, or vice versa, like if you have a girl who she goes out with a date or on a date with this guy.

There are girls who do that now. They do that so they can eat.

Just to make sure they're getting a square meal.

I saw some girl who did that for a year or something like that and never paid for her food, you know, she would just leech off of these guys. So, I mean, that's scandalous, right? That's scandalous.

Because that's deceptive.

Yeah.

But anyways, what were you saying?

But then, you know,.

Yeah, I was just saying it's funny that you would say that because I think if someone were to try and follow that, you know, that approach, they'd probably end up with a bunch of girls or guys mad at them just because of the way the landscape kind of is and the sort of agreed upon,.

You know, method.

To finding a spouse these days.

Well, that's, I mean, that's why it's so messed up. That's why everything is so messed up. It's so messed up because people have, like, they're just, they're expecting some ridiculous and extreme level of commitment to the other person as a prerequisite for even doing business.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

I mean, that's crazy.

Like, I mean,.

You don't even know this person. And so, if people would chill out a little bit and say, I would like to get to know you. I'm not emotionally committing to you for life. It may be that they can, you know, figure out how to get married a little quicker.

But what people are doing right now is they're making the standard in order to just have a cup of coffee so ridiculously high to the point where they're ruling out. I mean, you know, if you're not, if you're more realistic about these things, like, you might realize that,.

Like, you may need.

A little bit more information to know about a person than just your initial 10-second impression of them from a distance or something.

You know, they may, you may,.

If you give them a little bit of an opportunity to see what they're like,.

It may be that.

They're very different than your original impression. So, I mean, if you have some, you know, perspective of romance or something that's all about love at first sight.

And, you know,.

My chemical romance and all that, you know, like raw physical attraction and everything else,.

I mean,.

It's like, yeah,.

People are just dismissing any possibility of interacting with this member of the opposite sex and seeing some very good things in them.

You know,.

So what they want is they want to be persuaded that this person is the one before they ever talk to them,.

You know?

And then,.

And then when they talk to them, it's almost like they're both expecting, like, a commitment for life.

You know,.

So as a prerequisite, I'm going on a first date, they almost have to be,.

Like,.

Like, persuaded that they're making a commitment for life. It's like,.

Well, why would you go.

On a date with that?

I mean,.

You don't really have any information at the very beginning,.

You know?

If you don't have the information you need to know to commit,.

You know,.

So if you're demanding that you feel committed permanently forever before you do that, then you may be waiting for a long time.

I mean,.

Like,.

There may be some situations where you can do that,.

Like,.

If you have.

Regular interaction with this person over an extended period of time,.

You know, like,.

If you're two church members.

Or something like that.

And you can get to know them gradually over,.

I mean,.

Yeah,.

That would be ideal, but then in the real world, most people are,.

I mean,.

There's not an abundance.

Of options at your own church.

And,.

You know,.

So you're,.

It's very difficult.

To meet people.

Yeah,.

I mean,.

I would encourage people to shut off all these crazy notions.

Of,.

You know,.

Instantaneous emotional commitment,.

You know,.

In perpetuity forever and just approach it much more casually than what they're approaching it. Much low, much more low key,.

Low commitment.

This is just fun,.

You know,.

It should be just fun.

Yeah.

You know,.

I don't think that you're leading a person on by giving them a chance to shake you on a date or something like that. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah,.

I mean,.

Like,.

If you're that girl who is using guys to fund her food habits with no intention of ever committing to them whatsoever,.

She just wants to eat,.

Then, well,.

That's crazy.

But,.

Yeah, I mean,.

In normal situations, I think it should be a lot more low key.

Than what it is,.

For sure.

Church Options, Limited Options, and Relocation

So speaking of being limited in options, what if you have a situation.

Where, you know,.

You break up, you break up with someone and then you're looking around and you're saying,.

Hey,.

There are no more options here.

You know,.

There are no more viable options in terms of finding a spouse. Is that, in your mind, is that a reason to say,.

Hey,.

It's time to start looking for churches elsewhere where there's,.

You know,.

Essentially more fish in the sea?

I mean, yeah,.

I don't think that there's more fish.

In the sea. I mean,.

Obviously,.

I mean, obviously these things don't simply reduce to probability.

And, I mean,.

If you're only considering that as an access.

For,.

I mean,.

That's a bad,.

Like,.

Exclusive consideration. I wouldn't be willing to say that it has no merit whatsoever,.

You know,.

In terms of a consideration.

At all.

I mean,.

There are some situations that I can imagine that people would be in.

Where.

There really aren't.

Any options.

And there never will be.

No.

Yeah. For instance,.

I mean,.

I went to a church in.

Louisville.

When I was in seminary and it was a church full of people.

That were.

Basically one step away from a nursing home,.

Right?

So it was kind of a nursing home church that I went to for a little bit.

You know,.

God,.

God's hand is not limited. His arm's not shortened,.

Right?

He could have sent a single young person to this church and he's more than capable of doing that.

You know,.

If you have other options, you may want to think about.

Going.

Yeah,.

Again,.

That's on the radar for you. You may want to think about other faithful options.

You know,.

So Ruth put herself in Boaz's field. You may want to think,.

Like,.

Where are the people at?