Election: God's Unconditional Way of Saving Mankind

this health and a mega ministries presents the dividing line radio broadcast the apostle peter commanded all christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us yet to give this answer with gentleness and reverence the dividing line is brought to you by alpha and omega ministries calvary press publishers the phoenix reformed baptist church and bethany house publishers is doctor james white director of alpha and omega ministries and an elder at the phoenix reformed baptist church if you'd like to talk with doctor white call now by dialing one eight eight eight talk nine sixty that's one triple a talk nine sixty and now with today's topic here's james white and welcome to the dividing line my name is james white i'll be with you for the next hour talking to you about issues that are important to all christians i believe because they are based upon the word of god today we're going to be looking at the nature of the gospel itself and god's electing grace there is no doubt that evangelicalism today is in a state of perplexity and unsettlement in such matters as the practice of evangelism the teaching of holiness the building up of local church life the pastors dealing with souls and the exercise of discipline there is evidence of widespread dissatisfaction with things as they are and of equally widespread uncertainty as to the road ahead this is a complex phenomenon to which many factors have contributed but if we go to the root of the matter we shall find that these perplexities are all ultimately due to our having lost our grip on the biblical gospel without realizing it we have during the past century bartered that gospel for a substitute product which though it looks similar enough in points of detail is as a whole a decidedly different thing hence our troubles for the substitute product does not answer the ends for which the authentic gospel has in past days proved itself so mighty the new gospel conspicuously fails to produce deep reverence deep repentance deep humility a spirit of worship and a concern for the church why?

well we would suggest the reason lies in its own character and content it fails to make men god -centered in their thoughts god -fearing in their hearts because this is not primarily what it is trying to do in the first place one way of stating the difference between it and the old gospel is to say that it is too exclusively concerned to be helpful to man to bring peace comfort happiness satisfaction and too little concern to glorify god the old gospel was helpful too more so indeed than is the new but so to speak incidentally for its first concern was always to give glory to god it was always and essentially a proclamation of divine sovereignty and mercy and judgment a summons to bow down and worship the mighty lord on whom man depends for all good both in nature and in grace its center of reference was unambiguously god but in the new gospel the center of reference is man this is just to say that the old gospel was religious in a way that the new gospel is not whereas the chief aim of the old was to teach men to worship god the concern of the new seems limited to making them feel better the subject of the old gospel was god and his ways with men the subject of the new is man and the help that god gives him there is a world of difference the whole perspective and emphasis of gospel preaching has changed from this change of interest has sprung a change of content for the new gospel has in effect reformulated the biblical message in the supposed interests of helpfulness accordingly the themes of man's natural inability to believe of god's free election being the ultimate cause of salvation and of christ dying specifically for his sheep are not preached these doctrines it would be said are not helpful they would drive sinners to despair by suggesting them that it is not in their own power to be saved through christ the possibility that such despair might be salutary is not considered it is taken for granted that it cannot be because it is so shattering to our self -esteem however this may be the result of these omissions is that part of the biblical gospel is now preached as if were the whole of that gospel and a half -truth masquerading as the whole truth becomes a complete untruth thus we appeal to men as if they all had the ability to receive christ anytime we speak of his redeeming work as if he had done no more by dying then make it possible for us to save ourselves by believing we speak of god's love as if it were no more than a general willingness to receive any who will turn in trust and we depict the father in the sun not as sovereignly active in drawing sinners themselves but is waiting in quiet impotence at the door of our hearts for us to let them in but needs to be said with emphasis that this set of twisted half -truths is something other than the biblical gospel those preaching today will not say that god's saving purpose in the death of his son was a mere ineffectual wish depending for its fulfillment on man's willingness to believe so that for all god could do christ might have died in none been saved at all he insists the bible sees the cross is revealing god's power to save not his impotence that is the one who is firm in his biblical beliefs and we assert the christ did not win a hypothetical salvation for hypothetical believers a mere possibility of salvation for any who might possibly believe but a real salvation for his own chosen people the idea of god's electing grace you could probably listen for a long time today to television and radio and tapes and you could probably pick up a lot of books today and very few of them are going to talk to you about god's electing grace they will speak much of grace they'll talk about grace and and they'll talk about the absolute necessity of grace but most of the time the emphasis will always be upon the fact that grace is dependent upon some addition on the part of man to be effective that while god is very gracious god is not really very powerful to save because in reality he requires the assistance of man there are many who will say grace alone saves but then when you start digging down and you start listening closely you start asking difficult questions in reality what they mean is that we could not be saved without grace but that grace alone is not sufficient to save us without certain human additions whatever those additions might be this issue fundamentally separates those who trace themselves back to the reformation and of course you would say trace themselves back to a a firmly biblical position and those who do not there are many protestants today who while not even using the term would say that if it's the choice between protestant and catholic i'm a protestant who in reality do not agree with the protestant reformers on this very issue they would in fact agree with those who opposed the protestant reformation those who opposed the preaching of free grace and yet as we read our bibles as we work through the text of scripture and we listen carefully to what it says those topics we've covered over the past couple of weeks god's sovereignty man's deadness in sin his rebellion against god come through over and over again and as we think very carefully about those subjects we go well if if man is dead in sin and if god is sovereign over all things then the only logical conclusion having believed those two truths is that god in his grace elects a people unto himself otherwise no one could possibly be saved i mean if god is sovereign over all things then obviously those who are saved are part of his plan and if man is dead in sin and cannot save himself cannot even do as uh...

the old songs would speak about uh... casting about in the water trying to grab the lifeline he's actually dead at the bottom of the ocean then obviously god must be the one who raises him up god must be the one who saves and as we look at the scriptures we discover that that's exactly what the bible teaches their entire passages of scripture i could just simply sit here today and read them and i will read a number of them because i'll never ever forget a discussion i had a number of years ago at a church where i am no longer serving and i just given a bible study on this particular issue and i was talking with the person afterwards and he made reference to one of those passages romans chapter nine and he said you know i i'd read that passage before and when i did i i i thought you know that that sounds like it's teaching predestination but i know we don't believe that so it can't possibly that and i just ignored it i'm afraid that uh...

it is my task today to ask you to believe all of scripture not just scripture alone but all of scripture and to ask you to look at some passages in the bible that quite honestly are uncomfortable to some people uncomfortable because they present issues and topics that many of us have not struggled through many of us know we need to we just haven't taken the time to do it but the reward is truly great obviously the reward of simply believing all the god has to say is the greatest the reward is truly great for it will reveal to us who we really are the scriptures will show us who we are who god is and how great a salvation it is that we have to proclaim but i'm not going to go to romans chapter nine first i'm not going to go to ephesians chapter one first i'm going to let the lord jesus explain what he believed and taught on this issue you see i have a confidence in john chapter ten the lord jesus said my sheep hear my voice and that's the wonderful confidence of a person who believes in all the scripture and the sovereignty of god is that you can preach what the scriptures teach and you don't have to worry about offending anybody i'm not uh...

deceiving myself i know there are many who are offended by the proclamation of god's sovereign grace but my point is that's christ sheep hear his voice christ sheep will not be offended by christ teaching or at least they won't be for very long before he brings them to repentance for being in that way and so i'd like to go to john chapter six and i just like you to think with me for a moment about what the lord jesus teaches here these are his words he taught them to the people yes at the end of this chapter all but the disciples walked away they were offensive words they were words that caused people to stumble jesus did not go chasing after them and saying saying oh oh please i i didn't mean to offend you please stay no he didn't do that he taught these words he taught them plainly and when the disciples walked away and i'm not talking about the twelve but those thousands who had heard him preaching those thousands who had eaten at the at the table that he provided when he fed the five thousand he didn't stop them from walking away he let them go because he knew it was in the heart of man and he knew that in reality they did not believe in him john chapter six verse thirty five jesus said to them i am the bread of life he who comes to me will not hunger and he who believes in me will never thirst but i said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe all that the father gives me will come to me and the one who comes to me i will certainly not cast out for i have come down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me this is the will of him who sent me that of all that he has given me i lose nothing but raise it up on the last day for this is the will of my father that everyone who beholds the son and believes in him will have eternal life and i myself will raise him up on the last day therefore the jews were grumbling about him because he said i am the bread that came down of heaven they were saying is not this jesus the son of joseph whose father and mother we know how does he now say i have come down out of heaven jesus answered and said to them do not crumble among yourselves no one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him and i will raise him up on the last day it is written the prophets and they shall all be taught of god everyone who has heard and learned from the father comes to me those are his words his words are very straightforward let's consider them together just for a moment jesus says all that the father gives me will come to me do we believe that i certainly do i believe every word of it first of all the father is sovereign over all men the father therefore has the right to give men to the son we cannot argue that we cannot question god's ability and his sovereignty to give men to his son he has that perfect right we established that right a few weeks ago we looked at the sovereignty of god the father gives a certain people to the son here in verse thirty seven he is giving them to the son present tense but then in verse thirty nine it's viewed as a as a past tense all that he has given to me i lose nothing but raise it on the last day the father gives a people to the son he entrusts his people to the savior to jesus christ and then he says all that the father gives me will come to me not some not most not a minority all do we believe him do we believe that all that the father gives the son will come to the son that's jesus's teaching everyone of the father's sovereignly gives the son as a result of being given will come to christ there's the human elements we come to christ but who is it that comes to christ those who are given by the father to the son do you hear what the lord jesus is saying to the believer in the audience today i say to you that the only reason you bow the knee before the lord jesus christ is because before you ever had a thought in your mind about him before in fact you ever existed the father had entrusted you to the sun in his divine electing grace he gave you over to his son and entrusted your salvation to him that is the only reason that you confess his name truly this day the reason that we come to christ is because we've been given by the father to the sun and the reverse of that is likewise true the reason that people don't come to christ and ultimately reject him even when they've heard the gospel clearly proclaimed even when they've had every argument that could possibly given given to them the reason they don't come is because they hate god they're dead in their sins and they have not been given by the father to the sun you see it's an act of grace for the father to give anyone to the son he doesn't have to he didn't have to he could simply be just and allow the punishment of sin to fall upon everybody but he doesn't in his grace he gives a certain people under the sun and all who are so given come to christ verse thirty seven concludes by saying and the one who comes to me i will certainly not cast out and i hear so many people preach on this passage who say see eternal security the perseverance of the saints that's true that's exactly what it is there's no question of that but this is the flip side of divine sovereignty and there is no reason for anyone to believe in the perseverance of the saints or eternal security who does not believe in the absolute sovereignty of god in giving a people unto his son the reason that the sun will not cast out any that comes to him is because these are the ones who've been entrusted to him for salvation by the father verse thirty seven is a whole thought the father in his sovereignty and grace gives the people into the sun as a result those people come to christ not to anyone else not to buddha not to islam not to hinduism or anything else they come to christ and such a person who comes to christ will not ever be cast out by him yes true salvation is perfect because it has a perfect savior because god is sovereign yes it's perfect but you cannot take a section of this truth without taking all of this truth and that is the reason that a believer is secure in christ is because god is sovereign in giving a people unto the sun and because the sun is a perfect savior in saving all of those who are given to him he even expands on this in verses thirty eight and thirty nine he says for i have come down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me the lord jesus says i have come to do the father's will what is the father's will this is the will of him who sent me you want to know the father's will for the son is here it is in his own words that of all that he has given me i lose nothing but raise it up on the last day now think for just a moment what that means the father's will for the son is that of all that the father entrusts into his hands he lose nothing nothing but raise it up on the last day that is give those people eternal life that is save them perfectly be the perfect savior it is the father's will to the sun be a perfect and powerful savior so what are people actually saying when they say that christ does his best christ tries to save but in many instances fails what are people actually saying when they say that you can actually be truly saved but then lost does that not mean that christ has failed you see if you are given by the father to the sun then the promise of scripture is is that it is the father's will the son save all those are given to him you either have to suppose that the son fails to do the will of the father or accept the truth that he will always do the will of the father will anyone dare say that the sun is impotent to do the father's will that he lacks the power to do the father's will we would hope not would anyone dare say that he would disobey the father's will we hope not no one would ever say that who believes the bible so if you believe that jesus christ is who the bible says he is the very son of god god in human flesh then obviously he will perfectly obey the father's will for him and that is he will raise up all that the father gives him that is perfect salvation verse forty for this is the will of my father that everyone who beholds the sun believes in him will have eternal life and i myself will raise him up on the last day who is it who upon looking upon christ and believing in him will have eternal life who are these people they are the ones given by the father to the son why is it that the jews could look upon the lord jesus in the gospel accounts and reject him they could see him raise the dead they could watch lazarus come forth from the grave and the result of their seeing that miracle is we need to kill this man others seeing the exact same thing having the exact same religious background being of equal intelligence embrace christ as savior what's the difference the difference lies in the grace and will of god some are given some are not that's what jesus says in verse forty four no one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him and i will raise him up on the last day no one can come to christ unless the father who sent me draws him do you believe those words do you believe that man naturally lacks the ability to come to christ unless the father first acts and draws that person now someone might immediately say oh well but but he draws everyone look closely at the verse john six forty four those who are drawn by the father to the son the son raises up on the last day who are those the son raises up on the last day those were given to him by the father the father draws those he gives to the son to christ and as a result the lord jesus saves them perfectly and raises them up on the last day listen to those words of the lord jesus no one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him and i will raise him up on the last day that's divine sovereignty that's divine election and it isn't just found in paul it's not just found in peter it's right there in the words of the lord jesus christ and if we do not preach a gospel that takes these words seriously then we are not preaching the gospel that the lord jesus entrusted to us and such a gospel will not answer to the needs of our day for it's not a true gospel it's not the gospel in its fullness it's not the gospel as it's been entrusted to the church and that is our entire purpose the church is the pillar and foundation of the truth we are to be holding up and presenting that truth to the world it is not our right to edit that truth we have to present that truth as it has been given to us those are the words of the lord jesus john chapter six these are the words of the apostle paul in romans chapter eight and we know that god causes all things to work together for good to those who love god to those who are called according to his purpose for those whom he foreknew he also predestined to become conformed to the image of his son so that he would be the firstborn among many brethren and these whom he predestined he also called and these whom he called he also justified and these whom he justified he also glorified there's that word that word predestined yes it is in the bible i can't believe how many times i've had individuals tell me that that word is nowhere to be found in scripture and all i've done is open up my bible to ephesians one or to romans eight and said well there it is well but it doesn't mean that well whatever it means in romans chapter eight it's god who does it because everything in romans eight god does he foreknows and that doesn't mean he simply looks in the future and sees what we're going to do he predestines he calls he justifies he glorifies do you understand why it is that we need to emphasize the fact that it is god who is the savior it is god who saves and he does so perfectly he does so completely what a gospel we have to proclaim because it is good news it's not a probability it's not merely a possibility it is a perfect work accomplished by god what do you think i'd like to hear from you one eight eight eight talk nine sixty one eight eight eight talk nine sixty is the phone number i'd like to hear from you what you think about what the bible teaches on this i know that i'm in the minority that means there's folks who disagree i'd like to know why you disagree how you respond to john chapter six romans eight romans nine ephesians one whatever it might be we'd like to hear from you at one eight eight eight talk nine sixty we'll be right back and we're discussing the sovereignty of god and salvation the fact that the lord jesus teaches in john chapter six that no man is able to come unto me unless the father who sent me draws him and i will raise him up on the last day and it seems like some of our listeners have some questions maybe some comments maybe even some objections maybe we can have some interesting dialogue and discussion here today on the dividing line and you're invited to participate as well we're at one eight eight eight talk nine sixty that's one triple eight talk nine sixty and i think there's probably not a phone made anymore it doesn't have all the letters on it so you can figure it out from there but we've got callers on the line so let's get started and talk with steve in phoenix hello steve hello how you doing today great thanks what's your comment well let's i want to start by saying that i do agree with you on the idea of predestination i i have recently kind of come back i grew up in the church and drifted away as a as an adult and then come back with the help of a friend of mine but um i guess i have some kind of general questions about uh there's two different things that i i'm i'm i'm wondering about as i think about predestination number one is the idea of one saved all we save usually people put an asterisk next to that say but people you know a believer can still choose to at some point later decide that i don't believe this anymore and walk away and if uh if it's true that we are chosen by god and then we are called does that mean if someone were a believer and then chose to walk away does that mean they were never really chosen right i was certain yes i would certainly agree with that in fact i would refer to john's statement that those who went out from the church did so because they were not truly of us and when you talk about uh the asterisk i i would not put that asterisk there the asterisk that i would put on quote unquote eternal security first of all i'd call it perseverance of the saints uh would not be that a true believer can decide to walk away because of what i believe about a true believer in other words when christ changes a person when a person is regenerated when they are born again when they are brought from spiritual death to spiritual life that is a life changing occurrence when christ saves someone he does it right and therefore they are made a new creature in christ jesus and it would be in opposition to the nature of that new creation to simply say well i just don't believe this anymore i don't believe in christ anymore a person who could say i don't believe in christ anymore i reject him was not a person who had ever received his grace in the first place so these so basically these people are misled i mean they're confused they believe that at one point but they don't truly believe i'm not sure we need we need to recognize that just because someone attends a church and sits in a pew that is not an indication necessarily in of itself of a changed life we need to recognize that when i certainly recognize that when i stand to preach the word of god to the people i as an elder in the congregation cannot look within the hearts of the people in the congregation and therefore i need to keep in mind the fact that there are numerous warnings throughout scripture addressed to the church in general to test yourselves to see whether you're in the faith so obviously there there are those within the church today who are not true believers they are religious hypocrites there were religious hypocrites in jesus's day uh the disciples who followed jesus into the synagogue in capernaum 5 000 of them or so obviously not 5 000 could have fit in the synagogue but all of them that the journey to find him and we're all excited about him they were all religious hypocrites when jesus preached a straightforward gospel that emphasized a relationship with him to them they all walked away and jesus didn't stop them from walking away in point of go ahead let me let me just let me just add the second part of that then so then i noticed you know you've got a commercial there about is the warm and our brother right there are certainly religions that call themselves christians and i and i've got a good friend of mine who's a jehovah's witness and looking through their website at what they believe i think it clearly goes against the teaching of the bible in a lot of ways so i mean how would how do you approach that i mean do you do you say that if if people say they believe in jesus but they are teaching things or believing things that are obviously contradicted by the teachings of the bible does that does that tell you that they aren't truly people that have been saved most definitely now there is the the fact of deception there are people who have been deceived into joining these groups without actually knowing what those groups fully teach but keeping but setting them uh off to the side the new testament is very very plain that a false christ cannot save there are many warnings in the scriptures about false jesuses there would be no reason to warn someone about a false christ there is no danger from a false christ as long as all you have to say is jesus three times to be saved who needs to worry about who he is or what he did but instead you have the entire new testament lays out for us who jesus christ was and what he accomplished upon the cross and therefore those things are extremely important that's why we're warned against false doctrines false gospels false jesuses because this is a chief way of deceiving people and leading them away from eternal life and as far as individuals involved with those groups that's why every six months we go up to the general conference the mormon church in salt lake city and pass out tracks and witness to people uh is because we believe they've been given a false gospel and a false christ and uh we care enough to proclaim his truth to them and then trust god with the results that he can break through any type of uh uh bondage or wall that would keep them from hearing that gospel so what you understand of the gospel then those folks don't don't necessarily they aren't given eternal life they don't there is no there is no the gospel is the salvation but a false gospel cannot save uh i'd really highly recommend to your reading paul's epistle to the galatians especially the first chapter simply to to hear the apostle saying look if anyone comes to you and preaches a gospel other than that which we have preached to you let him be anathema which means under the curse of god now those are strong words but the reason that paul said that was because he loved people so much and he loved god so much that he wanted the truth about god to meet on the worst thing that any person can do to someone else is to allow them to remain enslaved to a false gospel i mean if you want to show disrespect and a lack of love for someone leave them in a false gospel it's the best way you can do it people say well i can't believe you all go up to salt lake city and stand outside the gates and isn't that hateful and i say no the worst thing i could do knowing mormonism as i do having studied it for years as i do the worst thing i could do mormons would be to stay at home and do nothing i show love for them when i go out and share with them okay you how do you reconcile the idea that if predestination is truly what it is that god will find those people that he will call them out the people that are his that yes what is our role as a believer exactly this process excellent question because he will find them out but it's the means that he uses to find them out god has predestined both the ends and the means the means that god uses is the proclamation of the gospel the foolishness of preaching and i as a christian have the wonderful privilege and it is a privilege to be used of god to preach his gospel to other people i can't change hearts i can't argue somebody in the kingdom of god but i can preach his gospel preach it in its fullness preach it boldly and trust him to draw his people unto himself and that is that's the great the great promise that i have that when i do so he will honor his word so you see our role strictly as being plant seeds to be a good witness as i like to use that term and to honor and glorify god by consistently proclaiming his truth god is glorified god is worshiped when we speak his truth in its fullness most definitely hey steve thank you very much for your call hey god bless bye -bye well we have some good calls on the air today i'm gonna try to sneak another one in here this is uh brian and phoenix hi brian yeah how you doing i'm doing pretty good i got a question you know i listened to hank canagraph and john um and the uh gentleman uh john mcarthur yes uh -huh anyways they really make me question my salvation because here's a here's a situation i mean i've been born again i know i've been born again i've got down on my knees prayed confessed my sins but my lifestyle has been like in and out of mediocrity christianity i mean some phases in my life i'm going to church and praise god i feel um you know i'm just you know really into it and uh other parts of my life i stray away i go to the bar scene and this and that and then i'll come home and i'll confess my sins and pray and it's not like i'm trying to be hypocrite i'm totally flat out honest with the lord saying lord i'll forgive me of my sins i believe in what your son jesus christ did how much leeway i mean it kind of confuses me if my salvation is even real and i'm and i'm as true as honest as i can be when i pray and confess my sins well let me let me tell you something brian i i think that there's a lot of people who can understand exactly what you're saying uh -huh and i would first of all say without knowing you personally without being able to observe your life without being able to observe your walk etc etc in my experience anyways the vast majority of the time when christians find it difficult to walk in a consistent manner that is worthy of the lord honoring to him it's because they have not truly grasped as yet a couple of things first of all the holiness of god in fact i would like to suggest a book to you if you've got something to write with uh that i think this book would be very helpful to you a number of years ago rc sproul wrote a book called the holiness of god and when i bought that book i remember when i first purchased it when i started reading it i could not stop reading it i stayed up till like one o 'clock in the morning to finish reading it because i couldn't put it down and i would highly recommend to you it's probably out in paperback by now it assumes from tindale house at least it was last time i saw it called the holiness of god many christians do not have a real grasp and a real idea of the god with whom we have to deal and the result of that the flip side of that then is we do not see the seriousness of our sin in the light of the perfection of the god against whom we're sinning and when we don't have that as the foundation when we we haven't had that laid out first then when we talk about being born again when we talk about accepting jesus we don't really see the cross for what the cross was really all about you see if all you see in the cross brian is the love of god you're not seeing all the cross let me explain what i just said because some people just veered off the road when they heard me say that i am not questioning that god's love is ultimately and most completely seen in the cross of jesus christ but what is also seen and what must be seen in the cross of christ is god's hatred of sin and his wrath against sin what falls upon the lord jesus on the cross is god's wrath that was due to you and to me my friend and when we begin to consider that and i don't just mean sunday morning and sunday night and maybe wednesday night prayer meeting but when that is a thought that is ours each day when we contemplate the cross when we contemplate the justice of god the wrath of god and the mercy and love of god seen in the cross that is the single greatest antidote to sin consistently in his word because his word will always expose us to these truths consistently in the fellowship of the church under the preaching of that word and when you're in the church let me ask you is there accountability is there uh are there those who can who can encourage you in the in the walk that you have with the lord that needs to be a part of the fellowship of the church with that you're a part of and the preaching of the word needs to be exegetical it needs to be consistent needs to be thorough that's what's going to help you in walking with the lord in that way brian so are you saying that my salvation isn't for real or i can't i would be the last person on the planet to try to judge someone's salvation what i'm what i'm saying to you if the lord has dealt in your life and if the lord has drawn you to himself then these things that i'm raising to your attention that is the cross of christ god's wrath against sin his holiness his grace and mercy and saving us those things will be important to you and if you go out and get that book and you take a look at it you will you will understand what's being said and it will have an impact upon you if you can however look at the holiness of god and it leaves you cold and dry then maybe that is an indication that there is no spiritual life there and you need to pray to god that he would be merciful to your soul but i can't judge that i would never be one of those folks who would sit on a on a radio and on a call -in show and judge someone's heart because i can't do that right what's the name of the the holiness of god the last the author's last name is sproul s -p -r -o -u -l you can hear him here on q96 in the mornings and if i had the foggiest idea what time it was i'd tell you can i get your opinion on the book i just read real quickly it's 8 30 in the morning by the way it's called eternal security by charles stanley yeah i'm familiar with it i don't agree with uh with dr stanley's presentation uh i i think that's uh that's one of those situations where you have have the the uh concept of eternal security being presented without the foundation that needs to lie underneath it and that is the sovereignty of god and salvation it ends up i think somewhat uh somewhat uh um unbalanced that point hey brian thank you very much we need to take a break we'll be right back got callers on the line you can call into it 1 -888 -TALK -960 be right back hey speaking of our website we currently have a debate going on at www .aomin

.org a written debate between myself and an lds apologist on the subject does the bible teach predestination it's uh interesting and so uh if you'd like to get on the web you can look at that debate and i have two books available on our website on this subject one is entitled god's sovereign grace a biblical examination of calvinism the other is drawn by the father a study of john 6 35 to 45 you'll find those listed on our web page at www .aomin

.org and we have callers online and the clock is a moving hello nathan in scottsdale how are you doing hello nathan i put nathan to sleep out there while we were waiting for nathan and tick tock tick tock hello nathan is nathan there uh is that you pastor white that's me how you doing nathan uh well fine i'm delighted to discover your program i had the foggiest idea there was a christian talk show on the air the last one i was familiar with was back in the 1970s by a pastor john smith of the landmark bible church at that time well we've got one and you're on it what can i do for you today um let me just ask you one mechanical question before i respond to that just to make sure i discover you again are you on every saturday every saturday from 1 to 2 p .m