January 24, 2024 Show with Joe Morecraft on “The Importance of Reading the Old Testament”

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But today we have a returning guest who is not only one of my very favorite guests to have on the show, but

it appears he is also the favorite of a growing number of listeners in my audience.

I'm speaking of Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia,

and he is also the author of the eight -volume commentary on the Westminster Larger

Catechism, titled Authentic Christianity.

Today we're going to be addressing the importance of reading the Old Testament and hearing it

preached, a warning against the heresy of Andy Stanley, who urged Christians to

unhitch the Old Testament from the Church.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, my dear friend Dr. Joseph C.

Moorcraft III.

It's an honor for me, too, Chris.

Thanks.

And I also want to thank you again and your elders at Heritage Presbyterian

Church of Cumming, Georgia, for very recently renewing your annual advertising contract with us,

which is highly coveted and greatly treasured.

So, thank you so much.

Well, first of all, before we get on to our theme, let our listeners know about Heritage Presbyterian Church of

Cumming, Georgia.

A growing congregation in Cumming, Georgia, which is the county seat of

Forsyth County, about 40 miles from the heart of Atlanta.

We were founded about nine or ten years ago.

We are a Presbyterian Church handover presbytery, which

is a small denomination, but which is thoroughly dedicated to the original Westminster

Confession of Faith, to the inerrancy and sufficiency of Scripture, and to the carrying

out of the Great Commission.

Our people come from all over the place.

We have various backgrounds.

They come from various cities, various denominations, various races, and we

praise the Lord for them and their devotion to the Lord Jesus Christ.

And we have a lot of them listening today.

Oh, praise God for that.

Well, if anybody wants to find out more about this fine

church that we love to promote, this fine church

located in Cumming, Georgia, Heritage Presbyterian Church, the

website is heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, heritagepresbyterianchurch

.com, and that will be repeated at the end of the

program, God willing.

Well, as I've already mentioned, we are going to be addressing the importance of reading the Old Testament and hearing it preached,

and this is a warning against the heresy of Andy Stanley, who urged

Christians to unhitch the Old Testament from the church.

And I understand that you wanted to start the program by actually covering some issues in the New

Testament in the book of Romans.

Yes, sir.

I've spent a great amount of time asking myself, what

happened to the church in America?

At one time, the church in America was a great church, the most powerful force

for good, for the Bible, for Christ, for the historic Reformed faith,

the most powerful in the whole world, and now it is one of the most powerful instruments of

evil in the United States.

What happened?

And I have come to the conclusion several years ago that what happened is

quit reading the Old Testament.

Preachers quit preaching on it.

Christians quit studying it.

It doesn't have any real important place in Christians' lives today.

They don't realize that the Old Testament, starting with the books of Moses,

that the Old Testament is the foundation of everything we have.

You have people today who say, well, we're a New Testament church.

And I tell people, well, I'm sad to hear that, because I'm not a New Testament Christian.

I'm a Bible Christian.

I believe we can't understand the New Testament.

We can't understand the gospel.

We can't understand Christian ethics.

We can't understand what's going on in this world unless we start with a basic

understanding of the Old Testament.

And there is a text that every Christian should memorize that tells us that very thing.

And if a person has his Bible there, he can turn to Romans chapter 15

and start reading with verse.

Ever was written

for perseverance and

the encouragement of the scripture.

Now may the God who gives perseverance and encouragement grant you

to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus, that with one

accord, you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of

our Lord Jesus Christ, one another, just as Christ

also accepted us to the glory of God, that

Christ to the circumcision on

behalf of the truth of God, to confirm the promises

given to the fathers and for the Gentiles to glorify God

that has a world of theology in it.

If we could only get to the point of it, Paul says, here's why you should read the Old Testament.

Whatever was written in earlier times, he's talking

about the Old Testament, obviously.

And he's saying whatever was written in the Old Testament was written for our instruction on this

side of the resurrection of Christ.

We don't know what the Old Testament says.

We're ignorant of its theology.

And largely because preachers don't preach on it anymore.

And also preachers like the one you mentioned, deliberately try to wean their people

off of the Old Testament by saying that Christians are going to be relevant in the 21st

century.

They have to, quote, unhitch themselves from the Old Testament.

And can you imagine a preacher saying that in the face of what he

said for whatever was written so that

if we

unhitch

ourselves from the Old Testament, some of the most important instruction that God gives his

people, we're going to miss out on.

We're going to misinterpret the New Testament.

And there are certain great blessings we're going to miss out on.

What Paul said here, if we study what was written in earlier

times, through that instruction, perseverance,

encouragement, and hope.

And we need perseverance.

That means endurance.

We're going to have to fight a lot of battles.

And we have to continue to fight the battles even past the point of weariness.

We need encouragement.

Sometimes it's easy to be depressed and to be down in the doldrums and have a

defeated spirit.

And we certainly need hope.

Because if we give up on hope in this culture and base what we do on what we see,

then we will be of no relevance in the modern

world.

So it says here, if we listen to the instruction given to us from the Old Testament,

we will find encouragement, endurance.

If we don't have those things, if we are in the doldrums, if

it's easy for us to give up in the midst of the battle, if we're not

always encouraged, there's a good reason for it.

We don't read the Old Testament.

And then it also says here that the reason that we get these great

blessings from reading the Old Testament is because God gives them to us.

Here in verse 4, it says that the instruction of the Old Testament brings perseverance

and encouragement and hope.

And then in verse 5, it says that God is the one who gives perseverance

and encouragement and the like.

And so it's God himself that works through the Old Testament, not just man.

And then there's another important thing here.

It says that we get as we study the Old Testament, and that is this, that

we, the things that I've mentioned, but we'll be the same

with one another according to Christ Jesus, that with one accord,

you may with one father, God the father of our Lord Jesus

Christ.

If there's one thing the church needs today, it's unity and a sense of oneness.

I mean, it's embarrassing to see how many different denominations there are in the world today.

It's different.

It's embarrassing to witness the non -Christians, and then they ask, what about this or what about

that?

And they'll receive 100, 200 different answers from people who have different doctrines and different

viewpoints and different worldviews.

And why is there such fragmentation in the church today?

Because the church does not read the Old Testament.

You look at those Christians who spend more time in the Old Testament and the New Testament,

who spend more time in the Old Testament than the average Christian, and you'll find the most unity there.

That's what I found, that if you want Christians that are of one voice,

testifying to the same truths, of one mind, in one accord, same

doctrine, same worldview, the greatest unity that I can find in the church

today is among those people who read and study the Old Testament.

And there is a very important doctrinal reason why the Bible brings these

things to us, and it is

spelled A.

Now, I'm going to change the translation of some of these words, because I think

there's a clearer way to translate verse 8 into English, so don't try to find this in

your New American Standard Version.

All right, this is a more crap version.

Verse 8.

"...the administrator of the Abrahamic covenant,

and is on behalf of the

faithfulness of God that never changes, is

made to the Father, and for the Gentiles to glorify

God.".

So the reason that the Old Testament

does things that only God can do is because the one that brings all these blessings out to a person

that studies and meditates on the Old Testament is none other than the mediator of the covenant himself,

who represents the faithfulness of God, and whose goal is to accomplish,

confirm, put into effect, all of the promises of God to his people

anywhere in the Old Testament.

And, ultimately, he's working that not just the

Jews or the Gentiles may glorify God.

And then he quotes about seven or eight verses from the Old Testament, proving God's intention

is to save the Gentiles and not the Jews.

Now, what's a Gentile?

Well, technically, a Gentile is a non -Jew.

You have Jews and you have non -Jews, which are Gentiles.

But the way I like to translate Gentile is everybody else.

That God's at work to save the Jews and everybody else, and he

does it as we read and study and give ourselves to the Old

Testament and the New Testament, the entirety of the Word of God.

So verses like this excite me.

See churches like our church.

There's a deep unity in it.

There's a deep concern for evangelism in it.

We spend thousands and thousands of dollars every year to get the gospel all over the

world.

And there is a deep unity.

There is a deep love for the Old Testament.

I just finished a hundred sermons there on the book of Genesis.

And last Sunday, I started a new series on the book of Exodus.

And you can tell the difference in a person's life.

A person that unhitches himself from the Old Testament unhitches himself

from the New Testament because he can't understand the New.

So if you look in your church and you see things that are weak, you don't see growth.

You don't see unity.

You see discouragement.

There is one.

You're not reading the Old Testament.

Your preacher is not preaching from the Old Testament.

And obviously, we have to clarify because there is

heresy that even exists in our day and age where people attempt

to bind upon the believer today in the New Covenant,

ceremonial laws and other things in the Old Covenant that

were bound upon the people of Israel exclusively.

But today, to do so would be Judaizing, especially if you are

connecting disobedience to an Old Covenant ceremonial law

as somehow aiding in one's salvation, if you want to comment on that.

And you wouldn't know that if you hadn't read the Old Testament.

If you don't read the Old Testament, you're not going to know.

There's laws you're to obey and there's laws that passed off the scene with the tabernacle.

You're not going to know that.

You're just going to believe what people tell you.

I did a very important study Sunday morning for our people.

It was on Moses and Jesus in the New Testament.

What the Bible and the relationship of the two.

And it's astounding.

And one of the most dramatic verses is the story Jesus told about the rich

man and Lazarus.

The rich man was in hell.

Lazarus was in Abraham's bosom.

And the rich man,

Abraham, some brothers that are not

saved perish in this flame.

Find somebody.

He's from the dead.

Significant.

And send them to my five brothers.

And Abraham says a shocking statement.

He says,

if they don't listen to them, they'll never listen to the one whom

God raised from the dead.

So there is an essential unity between Christ and Moses.

The New Testament Jews, their problem was not that they believe the Old

Testament.

The problem was they misread the Old Testament.

And they thought that they could be saved by obeying the law of Moses.

Which was never true in the Old Testament.

Which has not been true and never will be true.

So their problem was not that they were reading and believing the Old Testament.

The problem is they were misunderstanding it and misapplying it to the whole thing of salvation.

Amen.

Now, I was thinking about something today.

And I preached, like I say, for a hundred sermons on Genesis.

Now I'm starting on Exodus.

After that, probably Leviticus.

And so on.

I think another reason that modern Christians do not

read the Old Testament is they've never been taught.

Their preachers have been unfaithful.

Their preachers have.

That there's a great chasm between the Old and New Testament, just like there was between the rich man and

Lazarus.

There's a vast chasm between the two.

The Old Testament dispensation.

The Old Testament God versus the New Testament and the New Testament God.

They've discouraged people from reading the Old Testament.

They don't know its history.

They don't.

Jesus said, the Book of Moses, Psalm, the Book of Moses, the

Prophets and Psalms, all speak of me.

Now, those were the three great divisions of the Old Testament and still are.

The five Book of Moses, the Prophets, and the Book of Psalms and other poetic books.

They wrote of him.

So everywhere we go in the Old Testament, we should look for Christ.

We don't even know what that means.

We think it means to find these allegories, these

secret behind the word meanings about Christ.

That's not what he meant.

Christ in the Old Testament.

The angel of the Lord that came to all the patriarchs throughout the pre

-incarnate Christ himself.

The Bible says in John 1, in the beginning was the word.

The word was with God and the word was God.

And the only way God has ever communicated himself is through the word.

Supposed to do.

We are supposed to understand the scriptures the way the scriptures meant to be understood.

And so we read them, first of all, to find out what they're about.

The Book of Genesis is about God's covenant.

A covenant with Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and

on over to Moses, and on over to David.

And then when we come to the New Testament, we find that these covenants were not annulled or done away with in the Lord

Jesus Christ.

But they were all unified and fulfilled in him.

And now we have the privilege of believing the promises, being

afraid because of the threat, and gladly out of faith in Christ,

obeying those laws and the ceremonial rituals.

I recommended one time to a young architect.

I just led him to Christ.

He'd never read the Old Testament, but very intelligent.

And I told him much of what I'm saying now, that he's got to get into the Word of God,

but you're not going to understand the New Testament unless you understand the Old Testament.

And you've got a long time to catch up.

You better be in a hurry to start understanding the Old Testament.

So here's what I want you to do.

I want you to take that book that you gave your little children, written by Catherine

Voss.

I want you to sit down.

I want you to read the whole thing backwards and forwards.

I want you to get a good view, not just a glimpse.

But I want you to get a good, solid understanding of what's going on in the Old Testament.

And that's the quickest way I know.

Now, a lot of these Bible study books aren't any good.

But Catherine Voss, who was the daughter of Johannes Voss, grandson of

Gerhardus Voss, a great Catherine Voss of

the U .S., wrote, I think, the best Bible.

You don't have to tell people you're reading a Bible.

But if you want the fastest way to get a good, solid view of the Old Testament, I'm talking to

mature men or women, whoever, read that book.

And then as you read it, go back and try to understand what each book is about.

I preached a series of sermons and then wrote on them.

You can get this, I think, maybe even free at Comprehensive Christianity.

It's called something like, Going Through the Bible in a Year.

And I preach

what each of the books of the Old Testament teach.

Their background, their emphases, to whom they're written.

I had a basic introduction to each of these books.

And then I preached one sermon on each book of the Old Testament.

That is, just preaching one sermon.

After you've read, go to

sermonaudio .com, maybe, if you want to hear them preach.

Or Comprehensive Christianity.

And get that, it's about a seven or eight volume set of paperback books.

Or on Kindle.

Explaining each book of the Old Testament.

How it relates.

And then I preach on the main text of the book.

There's no shortcut.

I wish I could offer you, after saying what I said about the church is weak, because we haven't

read the Old Testament.

I don't want to leave the impression that all you have to do now is take a pill.

And you'll have the knowledge and understanding.

There are no shortcuts.

This is going to take time.

It's going to take effort.

It is going to take prayer and diligence.

But you will never regret it and your children.

Amen.

And we have to go to our first commercial break right now.

If you have a question for Dr. Joe Moorcraft, please submit it to chrisarnsen at

gmail .com.

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Please only remain anonymous if you are asking a personal and private question.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Dr. Joe Moorcraft after these messages.

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology

at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use

the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the Westminster Larger Catechism titled,

Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Moorcraft.

It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism.

It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and

systematic theology.

Dr. Moorcraft is Pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking

for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com,

westminstercommentary .com.

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

Please tell Dr. Moorcraft and the saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr. Joseph

Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sent you.

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Royaldiadem .com, mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And we are now back with my guest, Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, pastor of

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia.

We are discussing the importance of reading and hearing the Old

Testament preached.

If you have a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence.

And by the way, Dr. Moorcraft, I don't want to get too far off the main subject, but I've

never heard anyone say this other than myself, and I'm not saying that to pat myself on the back.

But do you see, as I do, in that text that you cited earlier from

Luke 16, 19 through 31, where you have the rich man in hell

and he is crying out to Abraham,

I beg you, Father, that you send him, meaning the raised Lazarus,

to my father's house, for I have five brothers, in order

that he may warn them so that they will not also come to this place of torment.

But Abraham said, They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them.

But he said, No, Father Abraham, but if somebody goes to them from the dead, they will

repent.

But he said to them, If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be persuaded,

even if someone rises from the dead.

I'm the only one that I am aware of who has gleaned from that, among other things,

a very powerful added support to the doctrine

of total depravity, and it really militates against the Arminian or the

non -Reform person's understanding of the will.

Because why wouldn't somebody rising from the dead persuade someone, if an

Arminian's understanding of the will is correct?

I mean, there are so many

things that we believe in the modern church today, that it's only Christ who can

give the faith to believe in Moses.

It's only Christ and the Spirit that can give faith to believe in one who's raised from the dead.

And we have such a truncated gospel today, and we have our preachers a lot to thank for that.

An old man told me one time, and of course our seminaries, our seminaries today

are—an old country man one time told me, he said, Joe,

you can't get the mud out of the stream until you get the hogs out of the spring.

And we've got to change these seminary professors.

And he is exactly right.

They don't teach these young guys how to preach.

They themselves, if you could look at all of the new

heresy -reformed churches.

Now you've got heresies in liberal churches, but there's a whole of

new heresies over the past couple years that's aimed at

conservative -reformed Baptists, conservative -reformed Presbyterians, trying to change us.

And every one of those are

discrediting, for one reason or another, the Old Testament, the Old

Testament covenant, the Old Testament law.

They try to drive a wedge between the Old and New Testaments by saying

that the Old Testament's in another dispensation.

It's written to another group of people.

It presents another gospel.

And we, for instance, the covenant of Moses.

The covenant of Moses is just a restatement of the

covenant of works to Adam.

God told Adam, you'll be saved.

He's conservative, so Liberty Calvinist.

Obey my law and you'll be saved.

But that's not what he's saying.

Let me give you a quick outline of the three main points of the Mosaic covenant, which is

also the main point of the book of Exodus.

The first 18 chapters of the book of Exodus are about

redemption, the redemption of God's people from Egypt,

the celebration of that redemption in Passover.

Redemption is deliverance from sin and death and the bringing of those

redeemed people into new religion.

The second section of Exodus is chapter 19 through 24,

and it has to do with sanctification.

And now that Israel is a redeemed nation, how she should live.

There's the Ten Commandments and the practical applications of the Ten Commandments.

And I like to ask people this simple question, which came first,

the crossing of the Red Sea or the giving of the law of Mount Sinai?

Crossing of the Red Sea came before the giving of the law of Mount Sinai because the law was given to a

redeemed people, not to redeem them, but to one that's already been redeemed.

If the law of God was given before the crossing of the Red Sea and the

Exodus, that would mean we have to be saved by law and meet the

qualifications of law before we can be redeemed.

But the Red Sea, praise God, and the crossing of the Red Sea

and the redemption of Israel out of Egypt came before

the giving of the law of Mount Sinai.

And then the third section of the book of Exodus from chapter 25 through

chapter 40 is on reconciliation.

It's on the building of the tabernacle.

So the first third is on redemption.

The second third is on sanctification.

The third section is on reconciliation.

Where in that picture do you find legalism?

When somebody says the book of Exodus is just about laws, that tells me they have not

read the Old Testament.

They've not read the book of Exodus.

That the book of Moses is centered on Christ is simply the

outgrowth and development of the covenant theme of the book of Genesis.

I like to point out to my people that the first word

in the book of Exodus say

it is.

Word in the Hebrew N

-D -E -W

in Hebrew.

The book of Genesis, the story of the covenant of grace, and

then it ends in a grave.

And everybody says, well, that's so discouraging.

Yes, until you realize that it was going to be buried in the promised land.

And so you have the fulfillment of the promise of the covenant of Abraham as the way that

Genesis ends.

And then the way Exodus begins is, and

because that was Deuteronomy.

So people whose testament is concerned,

and the New Testament is concerned with grace, talking about number one.

But it shows their ignorance.

And I wouldn't say that to too many people, because it's proof that you haven't read the Old Testament.

And so when they say that there's a dichotomy, that the Old

Testament is to a different group on a different theme than the New Testament,

and the New Testament is at

entirely different than any covenant in the Old Testament, they're

simply saying, well, they were by some preacher who had a

dispensational view of the Old Testament.

Amen.

Amen.

And we do have a listener who I will give his full name,

unlike what I usually do.

Matthew Ware has been a guest on this program.

And he is also the director of

Child Evangelism for Child Evangelism Fellowship of Reading and Berks

County, Pennsylvania.

And he is also a speaker for a group that invited you, Dr. Moorcraft, to

speak at one of their conferences.

They're known as MARS, M -A -R -S, the Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society.

Well, in fact, back in the 1960s, I used to go to this ghetto in

Bristol, Tennessee, and work for Child Evangelism for two years.

Oh, wow.

Well, Matthew Ware asked this question, and I just had it in front of me, and I got to

look for it.

Let's see here.

Matthew Ware's question.

Given the current ignorance of the Old Testament that is in much of the evangelical church today,

would you recommend that pastors prioritize preaching through the Old Testament books

over the New Testament books?

The same message, but Jesus is more glorious than Moses.

But they both preach the same gospel.

So that is a hard question to ask.

I don't know the nature of his congregation.

I picked him because I see certain

needs in my congregation that need to be met.

So that is a difficult question to ask, but I'll

make this point.

And that is, more than likely, evangelical

preachers spend more time preaching out of the New Testament than the Old.

And therefore, I'm

preaching on the Old Testament.

Because the more your people understand the Old Testament, the more they're going

to understand and love the New Testament.

And like I said a while ago, when you unhitch yourself from the

Old Testament, you're unhitching yourself. from the New Testament

as well.

Well, thank you, Matthew.

I think this may be, I may be mistaken, but this may be your first question that you've submitted to Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio.

And if so, please make sure I have your full mailing address.

Because you have just won a free New American Standard Bible.

So please email that to us right away so that Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service,

CVBBS .com, can ship out to you that free Bible.

And we want to thank NASBible .com, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible,

for providing an unlimited supply of free NASBs to give away to first

-time questioners.

I also want to plug Child Evangelism Fellowship of Reading in Berks County by giving their website,

C .E .F. Berks, and that's B .E .R .K .S .com, C .E

.F. Berks .com, and also the website for the Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society is

MidAtlanticReformation .org, MidAtlanticReformation .org.

We're going to our midway break right now, folks.

Please be patient.

It's longer than the other breaks.

Please use this time wisely.

Write down as much of the contact information as you possibly can, provided by as many of our

advertisers as you possibly can, so that you can more frequently and successfully contact our

advertisers, keeping in mind that they are a primary reason,

under the grace of God, of course, that we exist as a radio program.

So please make sure that you are letting our advertisers know how much you appreciate

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Even if you can't spend money in responding to our advertisers, you can't buy their products or use their services,

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to Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III on the Old Testament and its importance to chrisarnson

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Chrisarnson at gmail .com gives the first name at least, city and state and country of residence.

We'll be right back.

Don't go away.

It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Trip and Zion Radio listeners.

From all over the world.

Here's Joe Reilly, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show

he really loves hearing interviewed, Dr. Joe Moorcraft.

I'm Joe Reilly, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland.

Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe

Moorcraft.

If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming,

Georgia are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr. Joe

Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism.

Heritage is a member of the Hanover Presbyterian Church, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets,

Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great Protestant

Reformation of the 16th century.

Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone,

grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone, and God's glory alone.

Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.

For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com.

That's HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com or call 678 -954

-7831.

That's 678 -954 -7831.

If you visit, have them.

Joe Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener, from a tie in County Kildare, Ireland, send you.

Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor.

Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron radio has had a long -time partnership with our friends at

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It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church

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I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing

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For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

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Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

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Since it is our theme today to uphold the importance of

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An Introduction to the Old Testament Pentateuch by Herbert Wolff.

An Introduction to the Old Testament Historical Books by David M. Howard.

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And let me remind you they are going through a book sales crisis.

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Please go to solid -ground -books .com and make your largest purchase ever.

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Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

Before I return to my guest, Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III and our discussion

on the importance of reading the Old Testament and hearing it preached we have some

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Last but not least, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful doctrinally solid, theologically

sound church like Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia.

I have extensive lists of biblically faithful churches spanning the globe and I have helped many people

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That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III

on the issue of the importance of reading the Old Testament and hearing it preached.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence.

Let's see here, we have a question from Cindy in Findley, Ohio

and she says, good afternoon Pastor Moorcraft and Chris.

First let me say, Pastor Moorcraft you are in my top two of favorite guests on

Chris' show.

It's always a pleasure to tune in and especially to hear you.

I have recently acquired many Facebook friends who are Hebrew.

Roots.

Or Torah observant.

This is a genre of quote, quote, Christianity.

This genre of Christianity is very diverse as they do not have a central hub, so to

speak and so their thinking and understanding can vary.

However, from my understanding it is increasing in popularity.

There are so many nuances to explore, but one thing I would like to focus on is this.

I appreciate the zeal of these people to learn and embrace the history and origins of Christianity.

I know there I know they are devout Christians who like to

participate in some of the festivals and such not as a means of obtaining

or maintaining righteousness but just to have a better Christian understanding of the Judeo -Christian faith.

One main focus when I'm speaking to these people is to emphasize the keeping of the law does

not bring righteousness.

I have heard it said by some Hebrew scholars who defend Christianity against

Torahism that to observe Old Testament Sabbaths or festivals is permitted

but not required.

It is obviously not required but could you also speak on the permitted part and I'll

pick up the rest of her questions after that because she's got a really long list here.

That's a good question and I've found Christian churches that hold the view

I do not practice even just as illustration any of the ceremonial

rituals of the Old Testament neither Passover but the

main reason is I don't want to leave the impression

that that the

ceremonial rituals like Passover and the others in the Old Testament

substance in Jesus so I don't need Passover anymore.

The way I get our people to understand Christ in Passover is I preach on it.

I don't use it as an illustration.

I don't think we're supposed to do it in worship whether it's an illustration but I think

we must focus on the point that even though there's no dichotomy

and there's no wedge between the Old Testament and the New Testament and between the Old Covenant and the New

Covenant the New Covenant in Christ is infinitely more glorious

2nd Corinthians chapter 3 infinitely more glorious.

So I don't want to go back to anything, I don't want to get our people to want to go back to see

the old rituals of the Old Testament we can read about them, we can preach about them we can study them

but I don't want anything to minimize

of the New Covenant in the Lord Jesus Christ now that is not to

say that there's nothing in the Old Testament

that we should be practicing today.

There is, all kinds of things when God gives a law, a moral law

that moral law is to be obeyed until God says it no longer needs to be obeyed

and so we have the Ten Commandments we've got all the practical applications

of the Ten Commandments in the case laws of the Old Testament

ceremonial rituals the underlying principle in all of those,

we don't need the rituals anymore but the principles are still true we

still need a priest to get us to God, we still need

in order to have our sins forgiven, basic gospel

principles in the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament

applicable, even though the rituals themselves are

of the greater glory of Christ.

Now what most Christians don't realize today is

talking to a man I ran for Congress several years ago and the

liberals and the socialists, oh they didn't like me at all.

Really?

Yeah, right.

And they said you're a legalist.

You're a Christian and you're a legalist.

You believe in the laws of God, the Bible and all those things.

I said, now wait a minute.

I only have three to six hundred laws, and I'm not going to make any new ones,

and they're all in the Bible.

Huh.

But you socialists in the federal

in the executive office, you

have thousands of new laws every year.

In the congressional record laws

that comes out of Congress every year, you have thousands of more and every year I

only got three to six hundred.

Who's the legalist?

That's right.

I don't want any more but you're going to enslave us with your laws

all the time and that's why we've got to point to these ignorant socialists and liberals and

ignorant Christians we're not the legalists.

Right.

They say, well it's terrible to force people to obey your laws, I do not have any laws.

It is God's law contained in Holy Scripture,

that we and all human institutions are.

To obey, Amen.

And when we do that, we limit ourselves to

laws based upon the law of God.

And somebody who has to obey thousands of new laws every year,

one funny story of a major

fundamentalist seminary.

It was in a public debate with a friend of mine and

the issue

obligated to obey the various case laws of the Old Testament other than

the Ten Commandments.

And the professor of the seminary said, a Christian today

is not obligated to obey any of the laws of the Old Testament.

And said I'm going to make the point that

my does not believe what he says, since he's a Christian.

He said that the Christians are not obligated to obey the laws of the Old Testament.

I don't believe he believes what he says.

Well the seminary professor said to him I don't know what you mean.

My friend said, well there are several laws from the Old Testament that are

repeated in the New Testament.

Are you saying we're not supposed to obey these laws from the Old Testament that are repeated in the New

Testament.

So the professor clearly said, well let me clarify my position

that Christians are obligated are repeated in the New

Testament.

My friend said to him in front of his audience I still don't believe that.

You believe the point you're trying to make.

Well now that frustrates me.

And so the professor said, Mr. So and So I'm trying to get to agree with you.

And I have changed now to the point that Christians do not have to obey the laws

of the Old Testament unless they are repeated in the New Testament.

He said, well you don't believe that.

And the professor said, what do you mean.

He said, well that forbids bestiality,

that forbids having sexual relationship with animals.

But that law is not repeated in the New Testament.

So are you telling me that it would be okay for your

to copulate with a goat.

He said, why.

Are you kidding me.

So when they get to that point you see where that weaker view of the Old

Testament gets you.

It gets you to perversion, immorality irrationality and death.

Yeah that shows to me that that man may have been, when he was backed in the corner just didn't want to admit he was

wrong.

That's exactly right exactly right.

And in fact there was a Christian who wrote a book

trying to support that professor's idea to some extent

and he actually included in the book that if it is not

the law of the land.

To.

Make incest illegal if

it's not against the law.

Where you live to marry your sister.

A Christian can in good conscience marry his sister.

That's where he wound up with his theology.

Isn't that pathetic.

I mean once you start saying

and that's why I say that if we unhitch ourselves from the Old Testament we're unhitching ourselves from Christianity

and from the New Testament the ceremonial laws.

We don't obey them anymore because we've got the real thing in Christ.

But the principle you have

to have a priest a mediator between yourself and God.

You have to have a substitutionary sacrifice to

have your sins forgiven.

But those were just illustrations and shadows

in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I want to emphasize one other thing too.

I don't want to skip over this.

My church is made up of all kinds of people.

All kinds of backgrounds all kinds of denominations.

I've never seen a congregation more united in the truth.

I have never seen a congregation confessing

the

faith is more unified.

I've been to many churches of my life churches that have

been the more unified accepting of

people even though they do come from different backgrounds.

Those churches that are more unified and more accepting of people

are those churches that read.

The churches that have a more unified view of the

faith a broader and deeper understanding of the faith

and a greater oneness with each other.

Are those churches that love to hear the Old Testament.

I mean that's very important.

By the way you can finish your thought.

I just wanted to have you ask I wanted you to clarify as far as

Cindy from Findley Ohio's question have you ever experienced an

encounter with people from these groups known as Hebrew Roots

or Torah Observance.

Never come in contact with people that use those labels.

OK.

I have met a lot of people who hold similar views

because of the dispensationalism of their preachers.

Well she says and I've edited this because it's very long.

I'm hoping that they meaning these people in the Hebrew Roots and Torah Observance will see that they are trusting

in their obedience rather than in Christ.

I have yet to have one person answer that question.

Do you have any suggestions as to how I can better respond.

I have numerous scriptures that I quote to them rather than just my opinion and it just boils down to

the fact that they do not understand the connection between the old and the new.

They say they want to follow Jesus so they do what Jesus did.

I usually respond Jesus had not died and resurrected yet and quote

John 6 29 where Jesus said this is the work which God requires that you

believe on him who he has sent.

Very good that is true and I found that a lot of these

of their Hebrew Roots completed Jews

that they no more they don't have any idea what the Old Testament taught

and what they believe is not what the Old Testament teaches.

When I lived in another county the year where I lived was an allegedly

Christian synagogue and they had

a lot of people go Messianic Jews so to speak

and the services were there was very

little content of the preaching in this church and the

content of the preaching in the Old Testament

because they don't know what the Old Testament believes.

These completed Jewish synagogues are dispensational

they misunderstand

and after two culminating events in the worship service

is everybody stands up with the Israeli flag.

Ha ha ha ha.

I think that is not only blasphemous I believe it is treasonous.

And.

There is very little relationship between modern Judaism and the Old Testament.

One time I was at a seminar put on by the ACLU

Christian.

They'd always ask me to come and I was usually

the only conservative Christian there and

they would mock me and all that stuff but that was okay.

So in the midst of one discussion a Jewish Rabbi stands up

and says a few words and so I say to him.

I say Rabbi so and so it's encouraging to see you here

because even though you're Jewish more in

common than anybody in this room because I believe the

Torah of Yahweh is essential to public justice.

And this Rabbi's face flushed red.

Think of an angry Yiddish accent.

He said you have misunderstood Judaism

religion of the Torah it is a religion of the Rabbis.

And then I said sir well we have nothing in common.

You're a humanist and I'm not.

Hmm.

So people today should understand that there's very little relationship between modern

Judaism and the Old Testament.

Yes in fact I don't know if you've read it but Baruch Maoz who I've had on this program

he is a native Israeli Reform Baptist and he wrote a

book I really much prefer his original title.

It was called Judaism is not Jewish and he was bringing up the very things that you were talking about today.

It's called Come Let Us Reason Together A Friendly Critique of the Messianic Movement

but I much prefer Judaism is not Jewish but you could get.

That I would prefer that too because it is misleading.

Yes and the you could get that at solid -grandishbooks .com solid

-grandishbooks .com and ask for Come Let Us Reason Together by Baruch Maoz

B -A -R -U -C -H M as in Michael A -O -Z.

And thank you Cynthia.

We really have to move on.

I know that you still had more you wanted to ask about but it was much too long for this program.

Let's see.

Here we have I believe a first -time listener.

His name is Brandon and he lives in New not I'm sorry

not New Ringgold that's here in Pennsylvania.

He lives in Ringgold Georgia.

I don't know how close that is to you.

Well that's for me but he's a member of my church.

Well thanks for joining us today.

Brandon.

And Brandon says in the Older Testament was there parity between

those who were natural -born Israelites and those who were grafted in or were non

-ethnic peoples which were grafted in reckoned as a separate category.

That is a good question too.

I'll answer it this way.

I'm going to answer it even more Sunday morning.

In the sermon in Exodus you know one of the important things about the first chapter of Genesis

is that Exodus is a fulfillment of the great promise to Abraham

that there would be this fertility among the Jews

that their number would grow greater than the stars in the sky and the sand on the seashore.

And so when the Hebrews came to Egypt they came with 70

some people.

When they left in the Exodus they left with 3 million people.

Now where did all those people come from.

Says that Abraham had 70 people with him.

It doesn't count all of the slaves and workmen that were employed by him which was

some 3 or 400 more and they were very fertile.

But also it included convergent Egyptians

that these Hebrews converted Egyptians to Christ.

Put it this way the covenant

people were not ethnically pure.

That is the word Israel is not a racial

name it is a religious name.

And so as time went on other peoples like the Gibeonites

other people joined with the Hebrews and became one.

And there was no second stage

because

Israel is not the name of a political unit

it is the name of a people religiously connected by covenant.

Amen.

So that is a very good.

Question in fact Abraham was a.

Gentile that's exactly right.

He was not a Hebrew.

And he's the father of the Jews.

Yes sir he is.

Well we have to go to our final break.

If you have a question that you'd like to ask as well send it pretty quickly because we're running out of time to chrisorenson at

gmail .com.

Chrisorenson at gmail .com gives you first name at least city and state and country of residence.

We'll be right back.

Don't go away.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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Every day at thousands of community centers high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions,

coffee shops and local hangouts, Long Island Youth for Christ, staff and volunteers meet with young people

who need Jesus.

We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus.

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Tell Pastor Dunn you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

Have you noticed the gap that exists between the Sunday morning sermon and the Sunday school classroom or the small

group study?

So often we experience great preaching from the pulpit, but when it comes time to study God's Word in those

smaller settings, well, let's be honest, it leaves a lot to be desired.

It seems like it is nearly impossible to find good curriculum out there today that is true to the Word

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Hello, my name is Anthony Eugenio, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corn New York,

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I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

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Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Ovinio and thanks for listening.

The Iron Sharpens Iron radio first launched in 2005.

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Puritan Reformed is a Bible -believing, kingdom -building, devil -fighting church.

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Welcome back, and I want to remind our listeners of a couple of things.

You've been hearing the ads for the Historical Bible Society every day in my show for years.

Please never forget that that fine ministry was founded by its president, Daniel P. Buttafuoco,

attorney -at -law of Buttafuoco Associates.

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Make sure you mention Iron Trip & Zion Radio.

Also, if you are a man in ministry leadership, you are invited to the next free,

biannual Iron Trip Zion Radio pastors' luncheon to be held on Thursday, June the

6th, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville,

Pennsylvania, which is Perry County.

For the very first time, my guest speaker is Dr. Joel Beeky, the founder and president of

Puritan Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Not only will your admission be for free and your meal for free, but every man attending will receive a

very heavy sack of free, brand -new books, and they have been personally

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Kingdom.

So, if you want to register for free, if you're a man in ministry leadership, send me an email as soon as you can to

chrisorensen at gmail .com and put pastors' luncheon in the subject line.

And Dr. Joe Moorecraft, before we go on to any more listener questions, I really want you to get

at the heart of what you want our listeners to most remember about this topic today, and then we can proceed

and take as many listener questions as we have time for.

I want

them

to understand that the Promise of Reformation took place when these great preachers of

the Gospel preached the entirety of the Scriptures.

Pray that the members of the churches that are listening will love the Old Testament.

The more they love the Old Testament, the more they'll love Christ.

I wrote two little books.

I'm not the greatest writer in the world, but I try to put the fodder where the cattle can reach it.

And one of the books is called Study the Bible,

and it is written for the average eye to teach them how to understand

the Bible, Old Testament, New Testament, law, prophecy, everything.

And it is only about 50, 60 pages long, and you can get it

for paperback or for Kindle from

comprehensivechristianity .com.

And then I have about 25 lectures

called The Reconstruction of Preaching.

I believe that's the secret of the change of America is the preaching of the Word of

God.

And I think our biggest fault and our biggest failure is that preachers don't know how to preach.

I gave these 25 lectures a

seminary that no longer exists.

Think you could get The Reconstruction of Preaching.

I know you can get it from sermonaudio .com in audio tape, and you ought

to be able to get it also.

Great.

And we also have Jerome in Hollis, Queens, New

York.

And Jerome says, What do you think of people who carry around a

New Testament alone, the miniature versions of the Bible?

And sometimes it will be the New Testament and the Psalms.

He was one of the greatest scholars of the late 20th century.

He was a South African.

And he said this, he said the New Testament

is a short commentary on the real Bible.

And so I think that those who carry around New Testaments are depriving themselves of

the people they want to listen to with the whole Bible.

You can't understand the New Testament without the Old.

Now, do you think it's wrong, though, for someone who has just as much appreciation

of the importance of the Old Testament as you do, but on occasion, just so because they can fit it in their pocket,

they walk around, perhaps into a hospital or wherever, and they not only may read

something from this miniature Bible at someone's bedside, they may give it away.

They may give many copies away.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

In fact, if they can only give out the Gospel of John.

I'm for just giving out the Gospel of John, if that's all they can do.

Amen.

And let's see here.

We have Philip, who is located in Aqua Bog, Long

Island, New York.

And Philip says, do you think that a part of the reason why many

Christian pastors, evangelists, and ordinary members of churches

stay away from the Old Testament as far and as often as possible

is because they are embarrassed by some of the harder to understand things that took place

there, including Israelites wiping out whole tribes and peoples?

Go ahead.

No reason to be embarrassed, since it is the Word of God.

But I think that is true.

But just bear in mind that God does not do anything wrong or

unjust or unkind.

Everybody that he destroys deserves it.

Nobody that he saves deserves it.

So, I think that's a very good observation.

But we can't be embarrassed at anything the Word of God says, because we're

putting ourselves and our standards above those of the living God.

And I think we should conclude with you bringing laser

focus upon those things you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

Well, one time I preached to a bunch of preachers.

It was the last time I was ever in that denomination.

First -rate preachers.

And I asked them, and I said, how many of you all know the verse

that says, I determined to know nothing among you but Christ

crucified?

And they all raised their hands and said they knew that verse.

And then I said to their embarrassment, there is no such verse in the Bible.

There is no verse in the Bible that says, I determined to know nothing among you but Christ

crucified.

The verse says, I determined to know nothing among you but Christ

and him crucified.

As important as the crucifixion of Jesus is,

the central focus of Scripture is not the work of Christ.

It is the person of the divine human

person of Christ.

We don't have any crosses in our church.

And so we had a minister that says, why don't you have a cross in your church?

And we said, because we're not cross -centered.

But the focus of our preaching and our teaching and the focus of Scripture is the

living of the God

-man, Jesus Christ.

And that's, I think, where we need the church to have a better understanding

of the gospel.

Amen.

Well, let me make sure our listeners have your websites.

First of all, if you live in or near Cumming, Georgia, or you're passing through, or you

have family, friends, and loved ones in or near Cumming, Georgia, and you want to recommend a great church,

the website for Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia is heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

Heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

And also, if you want to order or investigate the eight

-volume commentary that has been written by Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft on the

Westminster Larger Catechism, you can go to

westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com.

And the last website that has all the information you need for Dr. Moorcraft's ministry and writing

is comprehensivechristianity .com, comprehensivechristianity .com.

Dr. Moorcraft, once again, please extend to your elders and your

congregation my deepest heartfelt thanks for your belief in this ministry, and

so much belief that you share a great portion of your monies, with which God has blessed

you, with Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Where should we add more?

Well, you are very generous as it is, and it is not according to the size of your congregation,

I can say that.

And I thank God for you.

I want to thank everybody who listened, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus

Christ is a far, far greater Savior than you are a sinner.