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Andrew will answer your hardest questions about God and the Bible.
Was Andrew the one that helped you get the podcast back up? Yeah, he did get the podcast. You didn't help me. He did it. Don't you think you owe him a dinner for that? Oh.
We are live apologetics live here to answer your most challenging questions that you have about God and the Bible. I am Andrew Rapport the executive director of striving for eternity and the Christian podcast community of which this Podcast.
Well, it's a live stream that becomes a podcast is a proud member. I will bring in well, I'm gonna let him bring himself in because he has controls. Is our co-host drew. What's going on. Not too much.
Now, you know, I had that opening there. I had to start with that opening because well, I was in Utah this past weekend and Utah Christian Utah Christian Research Center if you're out in That area Draper, Utah.
I gotta tell you drew you would love to go to the Utah creation Christian Research Center. I Was amazed how much they packed in in one small little building. So you walk in you walk in up front and they have all kinds of archaeology for the Bible.
Then you go you a little bit further and they do these tours and tours can go for like three four hours. The first half of the tour is all on the Bible. So you go into manuscript evidence. They they go through all the textual criticism get into how we got the Bible.
They show some some old Bibles that they have go through explaining the Bible why the Bible is trustworthy. From there you go in toward the back. So it's basically two rooms with a hallway. You go into the back and that's all the Mormonism say start on in the front all about the Bible to bring people in to Say that the the Bible can be trusted because that's number one thing Mormons end up being told that the Bible wasn't Isn't reliable.
It's not trustworthy because it wasn't translated properly and so what they do is they bring people in and And Explain the the truth of the reliability of Scripture and then go in the back room and show issues with Mormonism.
Joseph Smith multiple wives. You know the the gold plates if folks don't know that there's some of that you can call in and ask questions. We'll explain this but they have the gold plates that you know Would have weighed about a hundred and twenty pounds that Joseph Smith says he carried three miles while being shot at and chased by a bear.
So he ran. Three miles carrying gold plates that weigh a hundred and like even if you they keep trying to figure out to get it down. They say that it was like 40 pounds, but it was gold. So it wouldn't have been like it gives the exact dimensions.
So yeah. It wouldn't have at the best you could do is 80 pounds and you're not running three miles carrying 80 pounds under your arm.
Running three miles carrying nothing. Yeah while being chased by bears and people shooting at you. Just say that's another thing. You're not running three miles away from a bear either that. Faster than you are.
Yeah, so, you know, so yeah, so we go out there. So I did eight sessions eight apologetic sessions a debate with Matt slick and then preached on Sunday, so Thursday Friday Saturday, we deal with topics of textual criticism how to trust the Bible the uniqueness of Christianity Roman Catholicism.
How to defend the faith apologetic social justice. So a slew of topics then Matt slick and I did a debate on the charismatic gifts. He believes they continued I believe they haven't now. It was quite interesting and that debate will be released by the Utah Christian Research Center on their YouTube channel on July 1st.
So you can check that out there. And so The history though, there's a little bit of history with that opening and that is the fact that well it took Matt nine years to outsmart me and buy me a meal and so He made the comment on his radio show.
That everyone should go out to the the center for the debate and he told people To come up to me and tell me that I owe Matt a meal and so to make it sound like like, you know, he did this with with Bill McKeever for years, too.
They're like he owed Bill meal, but he tells everyone to tell Bill that Bill owes him one so needless to say we go out for dinner after on Friday night after I get done teaching and I. And by the way, the other two topics were the Trinity and deity of Christ.
I should mention all the the topic so I get done teaching about the the deity of Christ we go out for a meal and Matt decides well, we're gonna go to a pizza place. Oh, it's gonna be closed. So we Matt decides let's go to this Mexican place.
So he figures well Andrew doesn't know Spanish so well. So I could talk to the way the the cashier and explain to her. That he should you know that he wants to buy my meal now though I don't know Spanish that well I do know Matt that well, so I knew exactly what he was doing.
So when she took the credit card and put it behind the cash register, I knew what that was for. So Matt decides well now that he's got that all taken care of he can go use the restroom. So as he walks around the corner I I just turned to the waitress to the cashier and I point to the You know to the where they have all the food as I'm gonna go orders why so she would turn and look up.
So as she turns I reach over I pick up Matt's credit card and I take mine out and she's like she goes. Well, the the guy in front of you is paying for it and I hold up his card. And she like looks down looks up and goes.
Oh. And I said, yeah, we're gonna use my card. So Matt comes around the corner as she's now like she's just about to ring up with my card and Matt's like smiling because he thinks he's got me and I lift up his credit card so you could see and I said Use my card and so she puts it in just as Matt's like.
This is a this is a epic feud that has been going on for a very long time. Yeah, from what I understand to my count he's only gotten you one time once I was live on this show. Yep, which was really good, but it's only been one time.
Yeah, that was the hundredth episode. So yeah.
Yep, Matt turns to me and says you're a jerk. Of course. I made him explain why I'm a jerk during the debate.
I don't know if it was on camera when we were off. But yeah, that's funny. That's funny. But I Understand you have some sort of a in the news clip about a.
Gender man. Help. Help me understand. What is a transgender a.
Okay, so from what I can gather a transgender is someone who thinks they were assigned a Gender at birth. They don't identify with that gender and so they transition Into another gender the opposite gender.
Yeah, it's always the opposite gender. Hmm and They're very marginalized and people mistreat them. So no one actually wants to be transgender, right? They that's their argument.
They always say I would think no, no one can handle this. No one wants to be it. You know, we're so few so few and and they're they're so big.
It's it's just that's curse to have to deal with because appeal so mistreat them. Yeah. Yeah, so there's There was in the news was a person I forget they're running for for Congress or in Congress I forget a woman who claims she is a Man that is transgender to a woman.
In other words a woman who claims to be a woman, but she's Wants to make sure she's got her intersectionality points. So she claims she's a male transgender back into a woman. Folks the left has lost their minds.
This is a natural woman right by a lot of woman who Claims she's a man. Okay, so she claims transgender. Yeah, she identifies as a man but so as a.
She identifies back as a woman. She is a she's a biological woman. Yes, who identifies as a woman but as a transgender woman, okay.
You know, you didn't transition into anything, right.
This is why I didn't want to tell you this beforehand because I thought your reaction would be classic. Yeah. This is this is people just going. I want attention. I want attention. There's nothing wrong with me, but I want attention.
I mean and that's. That's it. That's what this whole movement. That's what all of this really is about is attention, right? So when when June hit. Where I live, we don't have pride parades, right. The the town I live in the small town I live in we don't have pride parades, but people you know, I mean what to do.
Yeah, so left out I know but in some of the county groups that I'm in people were asking is there gonna be a pride parade? And so I would comment under and I'd say hey if there is who wants to join me in doing evangelism at the pride parade if They decide to do one.
And so people were coming in and saying why are you shoving your religion down their throats and blah blah blah? And all the stuff. And I said, hey, I'm not the one doing a parade. I'm not the one that has to have a parade to show off my deviancy to shove it down everyone's face.
I'm not shoving it down everyone's face. I'm just showing up at the parade giving Christ. It's them who has to have the parade to put on display their debauchery. That's right.
Okay, so let me see. KT is Said how was the line of Jewish ethnicity traced biblically through fathers or either parent? I I think it would be well. It is interesting because the religion Judaism is passed through the mother but the lineage would have been passed through the father.
Yeah, we we did this. We went over this a while ago when we had that discussion with Ben Zion. The lineage of Christ. And then he said he actually said it's past. He said it's passed through the father.
There's no instance where it goes from the father and crosses to the mother and then continues. Until we pulled out a lineage. Yeah. Oops.
All right. So John Says I will be watching the show live rather than listening to the podcast on my street outreach tomorrow. God bless your ministry. So if you're watching live John, why don't you join us since you've sent both of us some comments about cessationism.
Because we would like to discuss that with you now. Let me get to some emails that I got so we could respond to some. We got this one in this is a little bit of a longer one drew but this was after we had the guy that was talking mental illness and you know, It was getting there was a long like what three and a half hours of you know.
Where he was took up two and a half of it. Just and then, you know called us all kinds of names and then said that we were calling him the names he called us. But anyway. So I got this good morning, I am a podcast listener of both the rap report and Apologetics live by the way, the rap report is my other podcast.
I do Andrew rap ports rap report. Just search for rap report with two P's. Okay back to email. Mm-hmm. Unfortunately, I cannot catch it live, but I listened back through the week. The debate format is what what they're sorry.
The debate format is one It that They try reading this again. The debate format is one that is engaging and edifying. I Appreciate this that scripture is used to interpret culture and not the other way around.
I have Suggestions for three episode topics. One of which you've already covered. Okay. So here's some topics. We're gonna have to think about doing in one that was already covered, but we're gonna do more.
The mental health episode Was a topic I was very interested in at least in the u .s. We've all seen the prevalence of increased Dramatically in recent decades. I think the church is afraid to address it precisely because it has been medicalized.
The gentleman who came on to express his opinion unwittingly made your point for you as an aside I I do want to thank him for turning me on to a W pink as As he was a theologian whom I was previously unfamiliar.
So there was something good that came out of that. Because that was part of his name. She goes on says I don't want to pile on but I imagine that Some of his difficulties with communication could be improved with coaching.
Discipline disciplined thinking and an attitude of humility a Diagnosis can unfortunately be an idol when we allow it to become an Entity identity. I want you guys to circle back on the topic if you dare.
Well, I'm gonna stop there to say Um Catherine we dare and we will in fact what we're gonna do is more than just there. We plan to do a summer series on Counseling issues. I plan to bring both of our speakers at striving fraternity.
Aaron Brewster and Anthony Russo both are ACBC counselors along with my own pastor and his wife. Who those two are also ACBC counselors and we're gonna do a slew of different topics. In other words, we're going to have four counselors to help drew out.
Oh It'll be live counseling. No. We're gonna do we're gonna deal with some different topics and therefore if folks have some interesting topics. Let me know what topics you think we should cover in areas of counseling.
Yeah, you know her. I think her observation of that episode in particular the Gentleman who came on is very good, right? It's a very good observation in terms of saying there needs to be the way he was communicating.
Discipline in thinking Is usually often lost when people try to come on, right? They have so much they want to say there. But they're not disciplined and they're thinking and ordering their thoughts to present what they're trying to say.
And then oftentimes what happens is they end up contradicting themselves, which is what happened. Yeah, I think her observation is very good and the humility aspect as well.
Yeah, so I Think we you know, she's saying he made our point which he did throughout.
He's very angry when Aaron kept saying you can just go back and listen, yeah. He didn't like that for some reason.
Because he kept calling us liars and he didn't like us saying you could listen to see if we told lies. But so Catherine goes on says I Really enjoy the segment on the most recent episode on discipleship.
I would like a whole episode on that particularly how to How it can be structured within American Church. Although we primarily think of Jesus and his disciples God gives examples throughout the Bible from Moses Joshua to Elijah Elisha.
He devotes large portions of his word to accountability expected within the church family. Titus two and three immediately come to mind and What is biblical counseling but focused discipleship,. I wonder if many of these mental health conditions could be Could be solved with with discipleship.
We'll cover those.
That's a good observation too. One is the need for discipleship a biblical discipleship because in the American Church We confuse fellowship with discipleship and they're not the same thing. And The people just think if we get together and we hang out we go bowling or whatever that that's discipleship.
No, it's not. And then when we consider our society everyone in our society Tries to seclude themselves so much right and they're always on their phones. They don't want anyone anyone around or to talk to anyone or anything.
And what does that do to yourself to your brain right. Your brain function instead of putting that down? Getting around people and actually learning from one another and helping each other grow. Yeah.
So here's here's the rest of the email next paragraph and while you're being controversial. No. We never deal with controversy here. While you're being controversial. I've heard you all bring up the sin of gluttony.
Oh Well, okay. I've never heard this talked about in Christian circles. Hmm. I doubt it will given the attitude surrounding consumption of More than just food in the u .s. Look, I belong to an SBC Church our covered dish functions are what keep attendance so high as it is.
Can you can you guys do a series on the seven deadly sins? For or Modern our modern American Church is great about confronting some sin but misuses others. It seems that gluttony sloth slash laziness wrath pride greed envy and lust are seven pillars of the culture today and social media fans.
Fans of the fire of our flesh like nothing else. Thanks for your podcast. Your example and instruction is encouraging.
Respectfully Catherine I. I can't help but laugh because I was thinking today that Down here in the South, right? Everyone thinks that judging is the worst possible sin you could do right. And they take that verse out of context.
But they think that's the worst possible thing you can do but gluttony is perfectly. Okay. Yeah.
Yeah, so we should announce we are gonna do a shorter show tonight. The plan is to go just for one hour because Drew, you know wants to go watch two old guys. Fight it out. Yeah, absolutely. I can be much of a fight.
It's gonna be one guy talking to a quote to a mic that's turned off. I I am wondering you know. They did. CNN did this whole thing about showing how the mics work like like it was a novel thing. Like look watch.
Oh Wow, did you guys catch that? I mean, I know how to mute a mic. Oh and and I get a little light when it's me. I mean like really that they were they were just displaying it and they said when someone talks over the other.
Do you think maybe what they're gonna define as interrupting will be Trump saying something they don't like. I mean. That's gonna be the definition of interrupting. Oh, sorry. He was interrupting so.
Yeah so. Debates are terrible anyway. Because they're not really debates. They're just displays of ad hominem.
Well, and they're right because they don't. I mean what should happen in my mind is we should actually have. Like it wasn't the old days we're just let the two of them ask each other questions. This is gonna be a three-on-one debate.
I like the fact that CNN is under a little bit of heat because they both the moderators have called Trump a Nazi and referred to him as being Hitler, so. Yeah, they're gonna be fair. Of course completely non-bias.
Mm-hmm. So we do have some questions coming in before we do. I want to show you some because I like you know, I like to make you feel bad. So. Yeah, yeah, I got this is my. I've had this for a long time this is my nice buttery soft Jeffrey Rice NASB Bible.
Those those are good. I'll look at it just lays flat. I like this one, but it's an ASB and so I've been waiting for New one. Look look at this, baby. Ah my my Jeffrey Rice. Nice. Is that the five solos on the side?
It says it has the five solos on the side and oh SFE for striving for eternity. Specially made with my name on it. Look at that a nice green color LSB. Now is it a reference edition? It is. Well, I I it was.
I don't know if it's a reference edition.
Which which what's the reference edition? It doesn't have it. Does it does it have references in the columns in the columns? Yeah, is it Center? Yeah, it's big print. Which is what I I was like, oh I can read this without having trouble.
I love I absolutely love Single column inside mark reference. Well, that's yeah. I I actually chose the Bible.
So I I had that sent to him bought a Bible sent it to him. He ripped off the hardcover put in this nice. This is a hard leather. This green one, but you know, that is does that make you jealous that I got that.
It really does, you know.
I've got I'm not I'm not ESB fan anymore, you know, but you know, I do have this really nice ESB Bible that according to the guys at Crossway when I took it up there 2019 G3 they said they don't make this particular one anymore.
And so I would like to get it rebound. And it needs to be rebound. Yeah, but I would love to have have that rebound.
Well, I'm I'm glad that makes you jealous because that's to Jeffrey Rice Bibles I have. Oh, oh, I'm sorry. Look what came in the mail today? That's right a purple Jeffrey Rice Bible. It says Holy Bible LSB and yes SFE for striving for attorney and look at that.
He put my name on the front. Look at this as another.
LSB Jeffrey Rice binded Bible art. Are you jealous yet? My friend? I've been jealous. Yeah, I know. Ellis with that with the NAS.
Yes, so I got the buttery soft I got the hard leather and this purple one is in between. So now I get to decide which one do I like to hold?
But yeah, what you do is you have one as a preaching Bible, right? You have one as a study Bible and then you have one as kind of like an everyday carry. There you go. Melissa says Jeffrey does beautiful work.
That's right. So this one right here is my Allen and it's it's Goat skin and yeah, that's every day carry. It's just not the same. It's not the same because it's not a Jeffrey. A Jeffrey Rice. There you go.
We find but it's still it's still very soft because it is goat skin. Yeah, so post 10 of X Lux Rebinding is where you can find Jeffrey at. Oh, oh I have to. Oh, I have to say I have to tell the story.
So I was out of town last week, right? We didn't have a show. You were out of town. I was out of town. So I was out of town for work and we were in Dallas. We were at the Dallas markets. Well Thursday morning was our last day there.
And so when I woke up on Thursday Being that we're in Dallas, I was like, you know where I have to go I have to go to Herb's. Herb's house coffee company, which is where dr. Lawson does his morning Bible study?
Now I Thought because the day before was John MacArthur's 85th birthday. I thought he would be in California, right? Well, he wasn't. We showed up at the coffee house Just after about 30 minutes or so after the Bible study ended and he left.
Oh, are you just hating life that you didn't go early?
Oh, I was so mad is so so I was talking to the girl behind the counter and I was telling her I was like. You know, I've gotten to meet dr. Lawson a couple of times. We've had breakfast together and stuff and.
And she was like, oh, well, he was just here for the Bible study and I was like I said, well, give me what he had. There was your chance all right, so.
Rob Rob is saying what a burden Andrew are. What Bible do I use? Melissa said. Once I purchase my LSB, I plan on having Jeffrey bind it for me. It will be worth it. So, you know speaking of coffee, you know.
Hold on. No, I got my I just opened it today my bag of squirrely Joe's compassion, this is a Brazilian coffee. But I'll give you some compassion. Yeah. Yeah, I could that's why I need. I had I had my cup of compassion this morning and That smells so good.
Fresh fresh beans. I mean they he gets wrote some and the and then sends it right out. Squirrely Joe's coffee is a Christian based company. He's training his children you and I before we went live we're talking about training our children to To learn have a plan and you know as with their teenagers to to have a job plan and you know.
Teach train them to you know be working. Well, that's what he's doing. He's got a company that they they work at. And it is good coffee. So that we're planning to be To Have him at the conference that will be at in Arizona.
At least the coffee will be there. I should throw up a thing for that. Oh, I should take this banner off so people can read this. But he will he will be at the Christian responsibility in an unchristian world conference.
This is August 8th to the 10th. Which is just like a little over 30 days away in Vail, Arizona. Myself Kevin. Hey John Sampson. Aaron Brewster. Dan crafty. You don't know Dan. Dan is the seven-foot apologist.
Everyone will be looking up to him at the conference. Dominic Amaldi who's one of the podcasters at Christian podcast community. He is an ex-con who became a pastor and then pastor Jay Miller. So this is gonna be a good conference.
Great topics. I know that you're some of you guys are going. I don't know any of those speakers. They are all excellent speakers and so it is something that you want to go check out. Actually, I should put that banner back up and you can scan the QR code you you would be able to also just go to striving fraternity org slash veil the a IL striving for eternity slash veil will get you to Get that information about the conference.
And I should mention while you're out there. You know at that website you can also go to striving for eternity slash coffee to get yourself some squirrely Joe's coffee and Remember if you use the promo code SFE that stands for striving for eternity.
You will get 20 off on your first order. But do remember to go to striving fraternity org slash coffee every time you reorder. So that they know that you heard about them from us and they continue sponsoring us here and we appreciate that.
So some questions that we have coming in. Let us see what we got. We have we Rob says Ordering my coffee very soon. Thank you for that Rob. We appreciate that. Just remember to go to striving fraternity dot org slash coffee use the promo code SFE get your discount so.
The questions we have. I'm not going to do them in order because some of these were I want to get to first. So Melissa says remember Andrew that Matt has autism like Matt slicks. So she's referring to Matt Hagen who is the gentleman who came in talking about the the mental health issues and.
We're we do not mock him here but there is a big difference between Matt Hagen and Matt slick and The difference is Matt Hagen has made excuses for his sin and he said it himself at the end of the show.
That you know. Basically, he's saying that if you have a mental health issue. That that excuses you from being called out on sin. So he doesn't try to correct his behavior. His behavior was sinful In in the way he conducted himself and instead of Repenting he feels that he doesn't need to repent because he's got an idol of a mental health issue of autism.
Matt slick doesn't do that. Matt slick knows his issue. He acknowledges his issue and tries to learn to change. So he doesn't let the he doesn't let his mental health his issues be something that keep him from.
You know trying to do what's what's right and biblical at the end of the show maybe I'll just grab that clip of it where he basically where Matt Hagen had said that. The issue is that you know, people can't sin when they have these issues.
Something to that effect. But it was at the at the end and that he typed it in so I know you're friends with him Melissa but it it doesn't excuse the behavior and. And that's the thing Let's see KT is was asking this do you did you guys hear about the legacy?
Bible foundation and then she later on said about it the legacy Bible foundation is for distributing free Bibles like LSB and Resources to ministries prisons homeless shelters student ministries and other organizations.
I have not heard about it. Have you know? Okay. Well, then we won't have much to say on that one.
I have it. I mean, it's I think it's great if that's what they're doing, you know. Yeah, I always have directed people to if they're looking for Bibles like if they're doing street ministry or something like that.
Something that they can get their hands on. Quick Bibles by the case I've directed people there, but if the LSB Foundation is putting out Resources like that where they can where you can get Bibles like the LSB go there.
But put the hands of a very of the accurate translation in people's hands.
Yeah, I was gonna mention Bibles by case is probably the cheapest and I have found I mean we would buy. I don't even know how many Bibles mean especially back in the day when I had a very active team in New York and New Jersey.
I was I was buying about oh I want to say between 20 to 40 thousand tracks a year and probably I'm thinking we used to go through about a Dozen cases easy a year.
So I think I want to say isn't a case like how many isn't like a hundred or something? No, not a hundred. I would see something. No, it's it's.
Yeah, it might be closer to I think I think 25 or 30 I thought but. Yeah. All right, so another question that came in. This will be a fun one. Melissa's asking question is Christian nationalism historically rooted in racism.
Well, so. What do you mean? I. Christian national? Yeah, so let's be really clear. Christian nationalism.
Is a term that was created by the left like about a year ago. Yeah, okay. Maybe maybe a little bit longer. Christian nationalism is a term that the left has created So that they could blink that they could go into this election year blaming Christians for everything.
Wrong with America. Yeah, and I want that to sink in for folks people who want to vote third party because they're gonna vote their conscience. Just think about this. You have a party that is creating a term so that they can treat Christians the same exact way.
That Nazi Germany treated Jewish people. Blaming them for all the ills of the society. Saying that the Jewish people want to take over the country and run it. You know, they had all the control and the money and the power.
So you had the case? Where. You now have a party that is arguing to blame Christians for everything. So what is on the ballot this this election? Your Christian liberties your your right to be a Christian in America is what's on the ballot.
Yeah.
You know, they they also attribute the title of Christian nationalism to people who we wouldn't consider to be Christians. Right, even just people who are pro-america in general that they would say Oh you believe in the founding fathers and what they stood for.
You're a Christian nationalist, you know.
They just throw it out. Yeah, and and what it is at its root, okay, is this the fact that What the left wants to do with it is this to blame Christians? So they can they can have a target to blame For all of the ills and and this is not I mean historically this has happened multiple times and so I people got to recognize what that term is.
I Wrongly Encourage people not to use that term. I know that so many feel well. We can we can you know use that terp and push, you know, the the post mill view. Okay, it's not all just post mill people but.
But there I mean, there's there's two big camps that are pushing Christian nationalism right now that is the post mills and the new apostolic Reformation for different reasons, but the point being is That feeds into when the left gets to have a Doug Wilson go on the news and say yes.
We want Christian nationalism. We want Christian laws to be the law of the land. That would be great. But we what the people need to be Christian first. The way the media tries to say to see they want to force their values on us and force all of us to be Christian.
Well, no one believes you can be a force to be a Christian. Constantine tried that it was a failure, right? Because you can't just declare people Christian they have to be converted and so This is a big thing Melissa that I encourage feel not to use the term.
Because it feeds into the left now. I get that people want to try to take the redeem that term but You you know by redeeming it your feet you're we're going we're feeding right into what the left wants.
So that they could blame us for things and you know, there is a term that is Historically rooted in racism at least in America, and we would call it the Democratic Party. Yeah, it's the Democratic Party that kept that didn't want to abolish slavery.
It was the Democratic Party that brought about the Jim Crow South and segregation, right? It was it's the Democratic Party that's fighting to actually keep minorities as In a form of slavery. Beholding to the welfare system and things like that keeping them in poverty keeping them uneducated keeping them in broken families.
They're actively working.
Toward all of that and and so KT is saying here it is. Is scary to see the hate towards people who are Jewish and yes. They're aiming it at Christians after. Actually, I think that they were targeting Christians first.
The the hatred toward Jewish people is recent. That's only since October 7th. So you only a few months. So Melissa went on to say I I brought I bought Christian nationalism. Be I brought I guess brought up.
I brought Christian nationalism because Michael Oh Emerson wrote a book about it and said it was rooted in racism. I was just curious about it so yeah, I mean the thing is is that remember that I don't know who Michael Emerson is but.
The the left who's coming up with this are the same people who say that Christianity is based in white supremacy. Remember that this is their whole thing for every everything is blamed on everything's racism.
Yeah. Christianity was invented by the white man, which is weird because started in Israel, yeah.
Yeah, and and and went to Africa and Places where people were not white. Hmm.
Before it ever came to America. Yeah, you know, I should mention.
Speaking about about that and some of the things, you know with cultural things Drew do you know who Megan Basham is? I've seen her on Twitter. Yeah. Yeah, so she works over at the Daily Wire and she has a very interesting book coming out.
It's called shepherds for sale. I got to look up the the How evangelical leaders Traded the truth for a leftist agenda. I Will be interviewing her on that book. I have a pre-released copy of it. I will be interviewing her in July.
That should be out. I'm thinking that I will have that episode out Sometime either end of July or early August. I Got to figure out when that book is gonna be released and I'll probably try to time it for the release maybe.
That is if you have if you have a pre-release copy, I'm wondering if she's meaning The Bringing in of things like CRT into the church. Like the Southern Baptist Convention, maybe right? Yeah as just an analytical tool, right?
And and was there money that funded that? She's well researched when she does stuff and. She you know, she's with the Daily Wire. So it's gonna be very interesting when that book hits I. I'm I'm excited to discuss it with her.
Especially because I think it's just broader Than just bringing the leftist agenda into the church because I think that there is a real problem within American Christianity at least. But I think it's overall is That there is a push for platform building versus ministry.
Oh, yeah.
That's a no-brainer and you see that because people are more concerned with Recording their stuff putting it out so that it gets views and likes rather than Actually teaching truth because they're looking for and you can see it in their videos.
They're looking for that tweetable phrase that yeah that can just go viral.
Yeah, I remember this is going back many years when we used to do our Jersey fire conference. We go to the Jersey we do a conference to get a bunch of Christians together get 150 200 Christians come out for the conference and we take them all on the street to evangelize and.
You know the interesting thing with that was we had a guy I don't know if you know who Mike Stockwell is but he's a well-known good event open-air preacher open-air evangelist before hasn't he he has been on here before and so.
What ended up happening was he you know, we would get I'd get guys that are experienced train people up so he's got this guy that wants to get up and do open-air and he's asking if Mike can hold his video camera for him and you know, Mike's figuring you know, people want it because it was his first time and There's people who want to for evaluation purposes, which I totally get.
Yeah. But the guy starts and then he turns to Mike goes. Oh stop. Stop it. Let's let's start that again. I gotta get my spiel, right and. And Mike just put the camera down. He stopped it. He walks over the guy goes get down get off the box.
Yeah, I guys like what he goes. The gospel is not a spiel. You're not here to record. Here's your camera. Bye. And sent him home, right? This is the thing is that you you have you have PE. I mean look there's people even in our camps if you want to call camps.
I hate this tribalism, but people we would agree with that. They they're they throw integrity out the window for the sake of building platform. They they'll do things that they'll speak as if they do biblical things biblically.
But then they'll throw that out the window if it oh, this might hurt our you know our platform you know and they talk about building platforms and who they're gonna they're gonna platform people and things and it's like.
This is ministry and if you're doing platform building, you're no different than the Southern Baptists. Which have pulled in the the leftist agenda. So I'm gonna I'll be really curious to see as we discussed that Kathy is saying yes I was just gonna comment about that book.
Thank you for interviewing her. She covers a lot well-researched it covers it covers takedown of the entire denominations from years ago. And so it will be very good Interview, I'm sure because well, I've been reading the book all right, so Zach gives a side question.
He said side question. Is there an issue with Spotify podcast? Haven't been able to load it. But I can load other podcast channels. I listen to so Zach email us more information about this, especially if you listen to my rap report or others, let me know if.
And there's a reason I'm asking so the email me info at striving for eternity calm info at striving for eternity calm is. Where you can email? The reason I want to know this is because we have switched our host the hosting that we're with and so it should have Spotify should have switched over and If it has not I need to know that so any Spotify list Spotify listeners.
You know, let me know on that so. And Kathy said that Tom Askell interviewed Megan Basham. So Another question that we have here from D Doreen says question is open theism heresy. Simple answer. Yes. Now now let's explain what it is and why all right, so open theism is The idea that God.
So let me back up and say it this way. The the real the question with open theism is It they're trying to Address not so much God's sovereignty as much as human responsibility. It's always starts with an overemphasis of human responsibility.
I'm gonna I'm gonna jettison to a side note though because you'll like this drew. So I'm at the I'm at the Utah Christian Research Center. So I'm talking about the deity of Christ the Trinity. Can we trust the Bible the uniqueness of Christianity.
Roman Catholicism? Social justice are any of those sounding like controversial topics? Not at all. Not at all. We're like all of them.
Let's just say not for us. They're contrary. They're not controversial but for some actually. Speaking of controversial am Brewster is here. There's no one more controversial. Yeah, there you go.
So so I'm at the Utah Christian Christian Research Center. Seven really controversial topics and which was the topic that got the most heated. Q &A. Evangelism. The one I least expected to be controversial.
We had a couple and it was a couple. Husband-wife and. We kind of think that they were they they knew what I believed. They they knew who Ray Comfort was and they were looking to. They had a hyper grace mentality.
They were very upset that I was teaching people to talk to ask people about the Ten Commandments to recognize their sin. And so the issue is. They believe that. And and we have Aaron and and drew here.
So I'll see what you guys think and I'm gonna get back to the question, but they believe that. No one is in hell for the sins they do. People are only in hell because they Refuse to believe. Because of their unbelief.
That's the only reason anyone's in hell.
So my question to that would be is unbelief a sin. That was exactly my question.
That's why I waited to see what you guys would say. So, um, I asked them did right for but before I asked him if unbelief is a sin They it was interesting because they already said the only people reason people are in hell is for the sin of unbelief.
So I already knew the answer. But as we discussed I said did Christ die for all sins as it says in in Colossians 2 14. Yes, they both said yes. So I said he so for every sin every sin was paid for its cross.
Yes, so I turned and said is unbelief a sin. The wife said yes and the husband. Well. It depends. No one's in hell. Correct. He realized the problem and that's exactly what I said if Christ died for all sins either.
Unbelief is not a sin. So people are in hell for something. They didn't commit for a non-sin or Christ died for all sins of all people and therefore. People are you know being punished for the fact that of son Christ paid for according to them, right?
So very tricky thing. I was not expecting that to be. The controversial one so back to open theism so open theism is this idea that in in protecting God's they're trying to protect the nature of God and but really it's a overemphasizing of the The the free will and so by doing that what they do is to answer.
How did how did God? The whole issue of election if God knew who would be saved Then God can elect them. So what they're what they're looking to do is save God's nature. I got news for you. God's nature doesn't need saving, right?
Okay, and so They start to say that God doesn't know all things.
Which doesn't save his nature it destroys.
That's why it's heresy because it destroys the very nature of God by saying that he's not omniscient. He doesn't know all things.
Yeah, the future is open and God is just having to react to what we do.
Yes, and so Doreen says how long before latent flowers becomes an open theist? Not far now. He's he's already been he's already told. He told me at the conference in February when we were at together.
He said he is he used to think it's heresy, but after no getting to know more more. He's starting to understand their position. He says I disagree with it. But I start to understand why they they believe it and hold to it.
So it's like well and it's sad because.
Just watching that trajectory that he's that path. He's been on and he's been fighting so hard against Calvinism. And it was just well, he was just more like a freewill Christian and then he started studying William Lane Craig and he got into Mullen ism and then from Mullen ism I guess he invented provisionism, you know.
And and now it's it's shifting into that open theism and it's kind of sad. It's it's where it will naturally go.
If they stay consistent Melissa says Andrew and drew. Thank you for answering my question earlier. Love you, sis. You're welcome. We appreciate you. Aaron wasn't here to answer the question. So.
Good on us. We'll just say Aaron. Aaron's question would be right there with our with our answer.
You guys you guys said my piece. Yeah. We had his proxy.
So dee dee. Says it's amazing to see how people put man man supposed autonomy above God's supreme autonomy. Nailed it sister. That's the issue. So uh, we got another question from Amy and she says question and I'm gonna have drew look this up so he could read this for us, but second Peter found it.
But is it in the NASB? 95 can be it's in the LSB. I'm okay. I mean, I'm we have to go with the 1995. Yeah I got it. I got it.
She said question the Lord is is not slow about his promises as some count slowness But patient towards you not wishing for any to come any to perish for all to come to repentance. So her question here is who is the all?
So I'll put that back up. So I think you're gonna get consensus on this on this response here. Amy, I'm just saying I don't know.
Well, I let's see if we can get three different responses. We'll let Drew start us off and then it will let Aaron go and then I will give the right answer.
Let's Let's back up a little bit. There you go context. Yeah, I'm just trying to find the right place to back up to Verse one. No, you could do it. Yeah, but you want me to read all nine. Yeah, I.
Mean I can let's start over. You could start at verse three. That probably the best place to start.
So beginning in verse three, this is Peter. He says know this first of all that in the last days Mark mockers will come with their mocking following after their own lusts and saying Where is the promise of his coming for ever since the fathers fell asleep all Continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.
For When they maintain this it escapes their notice that by the Word of God the heavens Existed long ago and the earth was formed out of the water and by water. The through which the word at the time was destroyed being flooded with water.
Wait, no the world. I think I said word It's work its world at the time was destroyed being flooded with with water. But by his word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire Kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
But do not let this one fact escape your notice. Beloved that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day. The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness But is patient toward you not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance and so.
Just backing up that far we see that there's a particular context of a coming judgment and There Some are saying well, where is this promise? Where's this promise of the coming? Why hasn't it happened yet?
They're trying to rush it in in Paul is saying The Lord is not slow as some would count slowness. But he's actually displaying his patience so that those who are headed towards the judgment Can come to repentance?
He's giving a chance to come to repentance and faith.
Okay Aaron. So, you know and the prior context as well as the post context are all referring to this.
Day of the Lord and Aaron. I think you're using the wrong mic, by the way. Sounds very echoey like it's a lot better. Yeah. Oh, there we go. All right, so I was too far away. Yeah.
The context before and after the verse is referring to this this coming this future Day of the Lord at the moment you get into that. You're gonna have the amillennius and the premillennium and the post millennius all disagreeing on the time frame.
But not with the pro millennialists. The pro millennial store all for millennium if there is one so.
The time so the question ends up becoming a little bit more convoluted because now we're talking about well When is this how has it already happened? Is that you know, is it gonna happen in the future?
When's it gonna happen? So on and so forth. However, I think I I want to say I take the more traditional approach though I could be wrong on that. I Everyone thinks they're.
Approach. I had to throw that in there before.
Before I got in there only in like the early 1900s and then there was one. Yeah.
I I interpret this as as a typical I would say Premillennialists and I would also say and this is where I end up getting in trouble and I end up making everybody mad at me the moment I say this both the armenians as well as the Hardcore Calvinist everyone just hates me.
It's like when I was I used to work in a school in Chicagoland area and we had a sports day. I bought a white socks jersey. Not yet. Yeah, and I bought a Cubs jersey and I cut them both up the middle and I sewed the shirts.
Everybody in Illinois hated me that day. You got beat up by both totally totally so. You know in this situation. I I do believe I struggle with limited atonement as it is Commonly argued and I'm not interested in getting into a debate about limited atonement at this point.
But I do believe when I read John 3 16, I believe when we read these passages That God is not willing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance now just because he's not willing for that because I believe that we see his his perfect will.
We see his permissive will and whatever terms you want to you tack on. There's what he would what he is willing to have happen and what he allows to have happen are often two different things. It was not his perfect will for David to commit sin with Bathsheba.
But was not outside of his sovereign will that he did commit sin with. Commit adultery with Bathsheba. And so God is willing for any and all to come to repentance. That doesn't mean that all will and I am definitely not going to argue that this any and all.
Needs that little parenthetical phrase thrown in there any of the elect or all of the elect. I can't make the argument from Scripture not for this passage all right, so.
Um. Let's let's examine this hermeneutically and I'm gonna state the the reality is that sometimes we see verses we have knee-jerk reactions to or we see that they make our our Systematic theology stronger.
And so we we end up Reinterpreting something based on our systematic theology rather than taking it from the text. So what is the overall? Issue of the text and drew kind of said this it's about patience or both of you said it, right?
It's the idea that there is a judgment coming. It's going to come and it's about the idea of patience so you can Let's put this way when I as a parent I was I was Wishing willing that I wouldn't have to spank my children.
But I did it because they needed it. I wish that every day. Please. I hope I don't have to spank my child today. And then every day it's like I gotta spank my child now.
Yeah, I was wishing that I wouldn't have to do that. But I had to do that so right off the bat just hermeneutically. The fact that it says not wishing for any to perish but all to come to repentance does not mean he's saying that all will Come to repentance.
The idea of wishing is is something where it's it's being really clear that hey, this is not. It's it's just not what people are trying to say like there's some that will say well this means that God wants it.
Like God is sitting in heaven. Just going. Oh, oh, please believe please believe because then you know I really want you to be with me. Then God's not sovereign that goes back to the open theism. Rob says God is just amen.
AR. So so the the issue is I Don't I think that when we dig into this and skip the main purpose the main purpose is Patience in a final judgment. That's the idea and like like Aaron said the verses after the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the heavens.
That's the main thing. So so we can't we cannot Miss the main point to focus on the small point. You're gonna say something. Yeah, so I.
Like that you that you emphasize the patience aspect when I've taught on the attributes of God. I've taught on God's patience because I believe it's one of the ones that doesn't get spoken about a lot.
But when I do speak on it, I say I'm quoting. Those are maybe I think it was that said God's patience is the first instance of his mercy. And so when We're looking at this idea of patience, you know, one of the the word that's used for wishing here Balaam a Means to will wish desire.
Purpose, right and I think I think purpose can fit there. The purpose of his patience is To bring people to repentance. Yeah attend intend plan. And so when we think about why God doesn't Bring judgment immediately like for our sins because now let's personalize it.
Let's internalize it. Let's personalize it. Why am I not judged immediately for my sin? Because of God's patience in Order to bring me to repentance.
So so here would be the thing a Lot of people are saying the key word is verse 8 beloved or the word you and so the issue there that they're they're saying in the chat is that this is. That's the key now in in this context, okay, it's saying any.
You know, he's not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
So, can I jump in here real quick. Just. Yeah, kind of may I continue to jump in. Sure. I Struggle with that with that focus because that truth in verse 8 is referring. Obviously, you know that he's saying to the beloved.
Recognize how God functions right. Recognize his patience. Recognize the fact that he exists outside of time. Okay. Recognize that he's not slow to fulfill his promises. That is directed at the beloved.
What comes next though. If if. If he's not willing for any of the beloved to perish but for all of the beloved to come to repentance. The verse actually doesn't make sense because the beloved Have already come to repentance and are already not going to perish.
So that it doesn't it doesn't actually that verse doesn't make sense theologically and doctrinally. If. That that any and that all is referring to the beloved.
Yeah, I mean because so in this context he's speaking to them about the patience. Could be that people want. I mean people are looking when when you're coming back Christ. When is this gonna be over? When are we gonna be having all the things promised in the Millennial Kingdom?
I Threw that out there for Drew but the people that have always been asking when is the end times when is when is the second coming going to be and. So he's speaking. Yes to believers. But here he's he's saying that the Lord is patient with you.
Now if that's only believers, which it could be. He's patient with you But not wishing for any. To perish for all to come to repentance can still be all people. However, I Want to challenge those? Who are saying that the believe that it must be the elect only because of the words beloved in you why?
I'd like everyone to turn to a clear passage. Remember when we interpret the unclear by the clear and That's going to be John first. John 2 2. I'll start in verse 1. It says my little children, so if we stop there, who is it speaking to his little children believers.
I Am writing these things to you. Who's the you? Believers so that you. Again, who's the you believers may not sin if anyone sins. Now I think the anyone it could be just like that other. The the passage we just looked at where anyone could refer to all people and not not break down the Break anything down here.
We have an advocate with the Father the Lord Jesus Christ the righteous now by that finishing part though. Who would have the advocate? Well, that wouldn't be unbelievers now because Christ is not being an advocate for unbelievers.
So now we know that the anyone who sins must be believers. Verse 2 and he finds himself Sorry, and he himself is the propitiation of our sins. Not for ours only. But for those of the whole world now people focus on the word whole world and say is that mean everybody?
Or It does that mean only the elect? Well, the issue is not the word world and it's not the word whole. The issue is the who is the not us? This passage says that Christ was a propitiation For our sins and not ours only.
Well, who is the hours that we clearly see in verse 1? Believers, so that is clearly teaching that Christ was a propitiation for believers and Unbelievers, I know drew disagrees with me on this but this was the historic.
Calvinist position before John Owen, but I disagree with who on what?
Well with I think you would disagree with my view on first John. To to.
No, I think we've actually done a show about this and we yeah. Read with me on it. No, I think we I think we did agree that this is that. It's talking about the the elect.
No, but that that's no. My point is first John to to yeah is speaking the the elect would be the our sins. Okay, not. Ours would be the non elect. So this this passage is saying that Christ died as a propitiation for both elect and unelect or believers and unbelievers and.
This was you're talking about the. That it's his his sacrifice is. Enough for believers and non-believers, but not necessarily the.
Efficaciousness of it see and this is where we get into the issue a big issue. So first off, let me just say that this for people that just had the knee-jerk reaction of what I said. There is a classical Calvinism that you see taught before the time of John Owen.
John Owen is the one that really popularized The fact that you know, there were You know that a logical position that Christ died only for the elect and that that was not taught universally many of the Puritans is the language drew is using is Saying say believe that Christ's death was sufficient for all efficient or effective for few.
Now propitiation means propitiation atonement a means of appeasing satisfying the means of forgiveness. And so this was actually the sin offering. This is where it presents the problem. So now this passage is clear.
That in this passage, I think it clearly is to you now you're gonna have people. I'll say well This is the the us or the Jew Jewish people and the not us or Gentiles. And so it's only the elect Jews and Gentiles.
There's nowhere in first John that Jewish Gentile distinction is made anywhere in the book. And in fact, it's one of the last books written of the of the Bible and by that time there was no Jewish Gentile distant issue by by then it was there were just Christians and The idea of the Jewishness was out of sync.
So that's the tip. That's the typical Calvinistic Modern Calvinistic response to this passage, but I'm a man of the text. So I have to do what the text says and if it doesn't fit my with my theology, I have to change that.
And here I see Amy is saying follow-up first John 2 2. I just saw this now. He himself atoning sacrifice for our sins and not only for ours only but for the whole world. And so I'm bringing that up and she I didn't see it.
She had posted that. So the idea here is that I would say that I'm perfectly okay with saying that Jesus Christ death on the cross was a propitiation for every single human being believers and unbelievers but It was not efficacious for everybody.
It's in the my bad example. It's just I don't can't come up with a better example because I don't know the mind of God. But the issue I can say is that if I go into a restaurant and I offer to buy everybody's dinner and I pay for Everybody's dinner.
I Know it the the bills are for everybody. I pay their dinner. There's might be someone that says I'm not letting you pay for me. I'm paying my own way and they pay a second time and I've actually had that happen.
Okay, we were evangelizing in a Restaurant the Christian owner of the restaurant so I knew we could he wouldn't have problem. But we went around to every table a friend mark and I evangelize everyone.
Mark had this one conversation. The guy was really Kitten, you know frazzled. Mark paid for his dinner. The guy found out that mark paid for his dinner. He paid it a second time and made a point of coming over to tell us to ask for our money back.
And we said no we you know mark goes I already paid it. He said well I paid it. I'm not gonna have anyone pay my own, you know pay for me and I turned him I said, you know the reason you're gonna be in hell for eternity is that very reason because someone paid you're fine.
But you won't allow anyone else to pay it. You're gonna pay it on your own. So even though it was paid He paid it as on his own. He didn't need to you know it it was paid, but he didn't receive that and So he paid it.
I It's a bad illustration, but the best that I have to explain how Christ death could be a propitiation for unbelievers and yet Logically, we know that well, I mean see the struggle is part of the struggle is is God is speaking to us right.
God knows all things we don't so he's talking to us as With the idea of and I'm like when we go evangelize, we don't know who's saved and unsaved. Okay, we just go out and share the gospel. I think that God in some ways may be speaking to us in that way.
Knowing all along that he knows who's gonna who's saved and unsaved. So it's it's different in the mind of God than the way he would speak to us the same way. It's different the way I would talk to my children and the way that drew would talk to his children just based off of age.
My children are having their own children. You know Drew's children are well, you know still running around in diapers.
Yeah, you know, I think you're right. We did disagree with you on this after hearing you go.
It was the and it was at the end of a show just like it would. It's now we extended it longer and.
But but. Because I think and the reason you know We would that I know myself and Chris who were on here talking about that would disagree with you is because it oh, I think it opens up an issue with the Propitiation right.
And yes for whom did Christ die. Because Christ himself in John 10 says that he lays down his life for the sheep. And then if he's dying for the sheep, that means only the sheep receive that propitiation.
So so and and this is the thing is is it that? Right, because here's the thing. I'm not. I don't want to bring my systematic theology into this. I want my systematic theology to be informed from this and so.
There is a possibility here and I leave this as the possibility as well. That Jesus is speaking to men in language men would understand to say we don't as people. We don't know everything and so. Clearly Christ knew exactly who is gonna who is gonna be the elect right?
We all agree with that. Yeah, but does he speak to us as if it is open discussion. Right, there's times where he he could speak to us that way because we. Can you explain that a little more elaborate.
Open discussion. Yeah, so.
Let me let me go to Ephesians. Let's see Ephesians 1 4 right a famous passage with election. Just as he chose some before the foundation of the world that we that we would be holy and blameless before him in love.
What a lot of people focus on is that he chose us before the foundation of the world. Now, there's a problem with that. Did God actually choose us? Before the foundation of the world. Well, there was no before with God.
Right. So what is he doing there? He's speaking in a language for human beings to understand. I Refer to as speaking baby. Talk to us. We cannot comprehend an eternal being who knows everything right because we're we're temporal beings bound by time that learn things and so.
The idea is that there are times that God will speak to humans in a way for human understanding. But it is not the way he would understand things we know. There was no before the foundation of the world.
So what is he saying in Ephesians 1 4? He's it's the clearest way that anyone could say it is you had nothing to do with your salvation. Right. I mean, that's the that's the main point of it. He's trying to say you did nothing to earn your salvation.
It was done. It was it was from eternity past. But there was no eternity past for God there was only an eternity past for us. Yeah, I think that's.
Go ahead Aaron. Go ahead. Well, I actually before we get too far away from it I wanted to go back to the illustration you gave that you didn't like and I want to suggest a tweak. And i'm i'm mean this honestly.
I don't i'm not suggesting that my version is better. This is how I understand it.
I'm curious to get your feedback. You may have a better illustration for me. I'm good because mine doesn't work. So well works.
So you go. And in this this example, you're you were. You were the christ figure in this illustration, but you go. And you work a job. And by working that job You make enough money To walk into the most expensive restaurant in the world and to pay.
For Everybody who will ever eat in that restaurant. Well, so far. I am really liking your illustration. Yeah prophetic. Yeah, name it and claim it baby.
Yeah, exactly. So so you're there and you offer to everyone in the restaurant everyone coming to the restaurant that you will pay Um for their meal and you you can you possess the ability you have all the finances necessary.
But you're not just going to pay for somebody's meal Unless they ask you to. If they ask you to you're more than happy to pay for it. If they don't ask you to you're not going to pay for it. I said in the in in here when danine asked a question.
I said that the atonement is 100 actual. Jesus christ Can and you know has the ability and the power and his redemption was um was able To cover the sins of all mankind, but it's not effectual to that degree.
It's not just we're not universalists and say that just because christ died and this is where I honestly I think this is where a big a big Thing for the calvinist the hardcore calvinist comes up because they don't want to be universalists, right?
Because if jesus christ atonement was perfect and all-encompassing if he actually died for the sins of the entire world then Then that's a problem if everyone doesn't get born again. So therefore they have to limit it down to he only died for the elect but In the illustration I just gave maybe i'm hoping maybe that it makes sense for us to see that though He was completely capable Of paying the debt for all people by virtue of Of his cross work.
It's not effectual for all people. The only thing I don't like about the illustration is it puts the ultimate decision making on the person in the restaurant. Asking to have his bill paid.
I I see that but from a human perspective, it doesn't work to say that you andrew are are omniscient.
And uh, you know, um, of course not.
And I and I I see I see your point because you know from the we recognize the fact that jesus chooses, you know, and if you wanted honestly if you wanted to do it that way you could literally say you walk into the room.
And you don't pay everybody's bill. You could pay for everybody's bill. But you don't. And everyone's bill that you do pay for they wanted you to. Well.
They were happy that you did it see. And and that's the thing when we speak about god. This is why I don't think any good illustrations work with this is like with the trinity. Because this is something about the nature of god.
We can't comprehend how Christ could be a propitiation for believers and unbelievers. And yet. The unbelievers are in hell rightly so because they Their debt hasn't been paid. Well, I think.
If I can expand or tweak Uh aaron's illustration a little bit instead of instead of just going in and Paying everyone's bill or going in and then selecting whose bill you're going to pay It kind of takes me to john 6 where There is a group of people That the father has given to the son.
So there is a a group of people whose bill you are already going to pay and You will pay them. Their bill will not go unpaid and they will not go without food and you will lose none of their bills right.
Um I I think that kind of I think if if we view it in terms of like john 6 uh In that illustration it probably at least to me. It makes a little more sense. Yeah.
I I agree with that. I guess the only the only point That I think is unique and still works with the example. You just gave Is that instead of jesus quote unquote, you know, the messiah figure in this illustration going to work and only making enough money.
To pay the bills of the people god commanded him to pay. I make the argument that when the bible says he died for the sins of all mankind. Right that he actually did like there is a not he's jesus christ is is infinite.
His blood can cover an infinite number of sins. That doesn't mean that it will. But it can but I have no problem saying that he died for the sins of the whole world. And as andrew beautifully put it that doesn't change the fact that people are gonna are gonna die and go to hell.
So so he so he possesses enough money to pay for everybody even though he's not going to. Yeah, it's sufficient.
Yeah, he has the sufficient funds to do so. Yes, but it but that sufficient funds is only effective for those whom the father has given to him.
Correct. Who's going to pay? So I mean this is a this is I know that. Nowadays people think the only calvinist view is john owens view from his book death of death and. That is the most popular view and people think it's heretical to disagree with that.
But that was not what all calvinists believed prior to that. Um, and so. You know, I take more of the historical uh, what's called classic calvinist view. Um, and the reason I do is because.
My ultimate authority is scripture not calvinism, you know, I don't know anyone. Who Would just bash You know john owen like that. We've got so many john owen fans.
Well, yeah, you can't see I got I got mine over on the other side I I see you pointing to your commentaries. I got the same set of commentaries I I got his complete works in lagos. So I I mean, I love john owens.
He's not an easy read but he's really not. No, he's really not um. Okay, so and and we did say we were going to end early for the debate and it's and melissa was like I thought you guys were ending early for the debate, but Uh, you know, I spiel started dropping off.
Now you bring up limited atonement more people come in. So d is saying I uh, I understand that the atonement is Great enough to cover every person but saying it's effective is Uh contingent on the decision of men puts them in charge of their own salvation.
I agree with that I I we're I think we're all saying it's sufficient for all it is effective. That's the word you use or or you know applied to few. I think we all agree with that um. See. Wouldn't god in his omniscience know how much he needs to pay though.
That's my point rob. In his in his omniscience He knows that. But when he's speaking to us He may speak to us in language. We would understand. Which opens it up where it sounds like it could be for both.
And and so we have to be honest with what the scripture is actually saying. But we also have to back up and say in the mind of god. Is he saying this because we're human? But he knows different and and the answer is yeah, sometimes that's the case.
So, uh, but with that I think uh, we'll stop here. I know that drew was Anxious to watch two old men fight it out. Um, and uh. So and i'm gonna i'll go back and rewatch the first half hour of the debate that hear their openings uh, but Uh, I just want to say next week.
Because we are not like tyson foods. And if you don't get that reference on june 10th Uh tyson foods came out with a thing that they they gave to their employees that had july 4th crossed out. And then they had juneteenth pride month and all this stuff.
Hence, I am not buying anything from tyson foods ever again. I told my wife You you we're not allowed to have tyson foods anything in this home anymore until they repent.
So by the way, did you see the video of the ceo of united airlines?
I posted that on twitter. Hence. I will not be flying united when the ceo is doing drag.
Queen dancing. Yeah, that was you that I did. Yeah.
So yeah, I won't be flying united feel like cool, but he's the ceo. It doesn't have anything to do with that. Tells you what he like a guy that's doing that. I mean ceos have a company to run. They got to think about their the way they're there.
But to do that says oh, this is what I want everyone to think of me. Yeah, so. Uh, we will be honoring july 4th independence day. Uh, we will not have a show next thursday because of july 4th. Drew.
You celebrate july 4th, right? Absolutely, because I bleed red white and blue. Do they. Do they celebrate july 4th over in england or are they still upset with us? You know, I think they're still upset with us over the things in effigy.
Yeah, they burn things in effigy because of the Uh presbyterian revolt, so they don't have a july 4th there in england.
Uh, I think they want to forget that july 4th happened. Yeah, it's called loser's day.
What what what day do they have after july 3rd?
They don't they skip to july 5th. It's like those buildings that don't have a 13th floor. Yeah an anomaly.
Yeah, okay, uh. And here we have. They try to to as best they can. Uh have tea and toast to the king.
Here we have brother asher comes in with the question of uh, Zachariah, what's it talking about? I believe if this is the same brother asher that was in before the black hebrew israelite. That believes that you know whites will be his slaves.
Uh, and everything that he usually brings up has to do with that. Well, we could he could come into the show not next week, but the week after and we could discuss it. I should say for programming note.
Uh, you can mark your calendars for so no show july 4th. We'll have a show on july 11th. 7 11 um. We I will not be here for a show on the 18th. But on the 25th. We have planned someone wanted to know um wanted to know that, uh basically was was Wanted me to respond to a atheist youtube channel Godless grandma who was responding to latent flowers on the issue of God sovereignty human responsibility.
And so I said sure we'll invite her on and have a discussion. It should be fun. So that will be on july 25th. So you can mark your calendars there. So no show on july 4th. Uh, I will be here with hopefully with drew on july 11th drew will have to do a show on the 18th.
Um, and then we'll be back on the air and we'll do a show on the 18th. Oh, you you won't be here. No, i'll be here for my.
My typical half half show appearance. Drew you got to start it if he's gonna be here because he gets here late. I already got I already got.
So so I thought uh. Today it was going to be just me. And so I was like, oh great because when you asked me about a show topic when you called me. Uh, I listened to your voicemail this morning on the way to work and I was like Oh, I gotta come up with a show topic.
I guess it's just me tonight and then so I came up with one and then. You showed up and you were here and I was like, I guess we'll save it for later. So I already got something. Yep, and I know what it is.
So, uh, we'll set that up. So with that we're gonna end a bit early. Well, aaron, you you're welcome to come in.
I don't know what it is. Like I don't know what the topic is. I feel like i'm out of the loop. You are out of the loop.
Out of the loop, you know, we'll text it to you so um. That way you have you'll know about it. All right with that folks, uh, we're gonna wrap this up. Just remember to strive to make today an eternal day for the kingdom of god, and we'll see you next time.
Have a good night.