Anti-Israel Protests & AZ Anti-Abortion Law

Welcome once again to the conversations that matter podcast. We are live now and Looking at people now starting to come into the chat and as we go

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I'm gonna open it up later in case there's anyone who wants to Buy video or by audio share a thought or ask a question

So we're gonna be talking about two primary issues and that's why I've labeled the video today the way

I have We're gonna be talking about the anti -israel protests on college campuses and the

Arizona anti -abortion law that's been on the books apparently since Well, they always say

Civil War era so that's supposed to make it sound so old that it can't possibly be right But it's been on the books for a while.

And of course Roe v. Wade Over well, I suppose you could say overruled maybe that wasn't a legal thing necessarily

But that's the way that people operated and now that the Dobbs decision has been handed down There's a debate in Arizona over this particular restriction

So we're gonna talk about that a little bit and whatever else anyone has so I want to get started today with just a quick announcement and an update the announcement

I'll start with and then we'll do the update. The announcement is that this weekend. I'm going to be outside of Minneapolis in Wisconsin actually in st.

Croix Falls beautiful area, by the way, the Midwest is Has a beauty to it and I think most people who travel on freeways probably think that it's just cornfields or wheat fields and Of course, there are a lot of corn and wheat fields but one of the things that I found especially in traveling to Wisconsin is there actually is some topographical diversity and there's some interesting places with geological formations and of course in northern

Wisconsin you have the Northwoods and This is a kind of a cool area. It's got a lot of pine trees there's there's a lot of hardwoods that in the fall turn colors and They have of course they have their cheese factories, too

I'm just saying there's more to it than Many people who live outside of the Midwest think and traveling to a place

I know one person who's traveling from Georgia to come to this conference traveling from a place like Georgia to Wisconsin You know, you may not think that you're going to encounter

Many surprising things but there there were there there are and I'm actually looking forward to going back there.

So And that's just the region. But of course the conference. I probably should talk about that, right?

the conference is going to be very interesting we have a Pastor Seth Brickley who's hosting it.

He's the pastor of Eureka Baptist Church. We have David Wheaton the Christian worldview radio program

I was on his show Two weeks ago to talk about this. Of course, I'll be there.

Dr. Russell Fuller will be there and Jeff Cleaver will also be there Pastor of Cornerstone Church.

I've had him on the podcast and dr. Russell Fuller has been on the podcast a few times And There is a number of things

I believe we're talking about I mean the the theme is to be not conformed but I know the sessions that I'm doing are going to Have probably more to do with the liberal order than they do actual wokeness

And so, you know that if you don't know what that is, that's a more reason to come. What am I talking about? I'm gonna start to critique the liberal order probably more than I have even on this podcast starting with this conference and And it'll be beneficial

I'll also talk about The responses to quote -unquote wokeness and some that were inadequate some that were good and what can we learn from those responses?

So that will be this weekend in st. Croix Falls, Wisconsin you can go to truth script comm forward slash conference if you want to find out more about this and I think it's about it now the the update

I was just gonna share with you is Thank you for all those who support me and prayed for me over the weekend

I was out in Idaho and Boise had a wonderful time the Steinmeier family who?

Hosted me just a wonderful family pastor. Danny Steinmeier is the pastor of the church there and We talked about this idea of being strong in the

Lord spiritual warfare and how this relates to some of the ideas of our age the ideologies and also

More than just political threats Matt slick was there He's an apologist in that area and a carm .org.

Many of you probably heard of that He talked about different cults and how they challenged

Christianity. It's just a wonderful time and so I just want to thank everyone who came out to that I got to meet some of you there and Just a great great time and I know they're planning on doing this every year

So if you're looking for a good church, and I know many people are fleeing, California and other places you might want to check out

To check out truth family Bible Church outside of Boise So there's my little plug for that and someone just said in the chat.

The weather's lovely right now in Northeast, Indiana You know, it's really great in upstate New York right now, too. I was just outside and If it wasn't for the fact that I think this is very important what

I'm gonna talk about. I probably still be out there so Tomorrow, hopefully I'll get to go out with my wife

Have a little picnic maybe before I get on the plane again and go out to St.

Croix. All right with all that said I want to start with the video a little montage that I made to introduce this subject of the anti Israeli protests or anti -israel protests happening on college campuses and I might stop

During this it's only like a three minute four minute little montage, but here it is

So I'm just gonna say real quick that what you just saw that was Sean Foyt who's a Christian music artist

You saw at the end there Eric Metaxas was behind him Whispering something in his ear. That was a protest.

I think maybe five days ago something like that it was earlier in the week and or maybe it was the end of last weekend, but they were

They were counter protesting essentially and they they're calling for the resignation of Columbia University's President so that's what that was

All right, so then what you just saw was Rory Wilson and a friend of his

Who's that's Doug Wilson's grandson, I suppose that's the significance there he was he made mainstream news though by Putting making himself out to be a barrier along with his friend in front of Hamilton Hall at the

University of Columbia University where pro Palestinian protesters were trying to get in this was two nights ago

Get back Okay, so what you're seeing now are scenes from the police who went into I believe they went into Hamilton Hall But they went into Columbia University last night.

I was actually watching the coverage on both CNN and Fox I was at the gym and I just turned on both on the little elliptical thing just to see how they were covering it and of course, it was a little different the way that they were covering it, but it you got to see the police climbing in the windows and I believe it was in Hamilton Hall and then making some of these arrests

So that's what you're seeing here is they made some arrests or at least they detained some individuals put them in these police buses

The thing is though, New York City Has a bail law they will they've essentially gotten rid of bail

So all that's probably going to happen unless there are quote -unquote hate crimes charges

That and Fox News they had a guest suggesting that that's what should be done with every one of them of these protesters They are going to end up being set free

So the consequences aren't really that great and perhaps that incentivizes people to do this kind of thing at Columbia It is especially important that we remember the power of young people shaping this country today of all days as we won

Once again witness the leadership of those peaceful Student -led protests on campus is like Columbia Yale Berkeley and many others

Now that's a OC and she Represents a district in New York City.

So very cool. I don't know I don't think Columbia University is in her district if I'm not I don't remember exactly where she is, but close by and She of course is one of the leading progressive voices in the

Democratic Party today And that's what she had to say about these particular protests

And this was I should let you know the sequence of this This was a few days ago when AOC said this so it was before what happened last night

But she was standing in solidarity with the protesters on these various campuses, please leave grab your stuff

Go home If not, you're gonna get suspended and that was the right decision

And they do need to suspend these kids if they're not willing to leave and then get them off campus and they can protest

You know off this piece of private property So that everyone else and it's the vast majority of students at Columbia and across the country who just want to go to class

Several so and I can't remember the name of that congressman. I wish I could he's from Ohio though But he's a Democrat and he is taking the opposite side here in a sense and you can see that he's trying to handle it

With kid gloves, but he's saying that the protesters should leave so that they can let people go to class Students were arrested as the unrest upends education in America questions are swirling about how to contain the growing

Protests and governor Abbott releasing his own statement about the protests on social media yesterday

Sharing a stern message to demonstrators his post from yesterday afternoon says quote

Arrests are being made right now and will continue until the crowd disperses. These protesters belong in jail

Antisemitism will not be tolerated in Texas period students joining in hate -filled

Antisemitic protests at any public college or university and Texas should be expelled end quote

So this was governor Greg Abbott and I the reason I put him in here I know he's not directly related to Columbia, but this is obviously way bigger than Columbia Columbia is just the university that was making headlines last night.

Greg Abbott, of course has taken very strong stance in Texas against Antisemitism quote -unquote.

He's also Taken a very strong aggressive stance against the protests that are against Israel and I think it might be

Maybe I should wait to talk about this. I'll just say it now though I think it's important to realize at the outset that Many of these protesters on these campuses

If you were to say that they were anti -semitic, they would look at you funny. They don't view themselves that way

In fact, they would probably be the first ones to call you anti -semitic as a conservative Christian They are

Anti -israel, that's how they view themselves and many Jewish students are also protesting and I don't know how many

I was looking to See if there are any studies done on this. I couldn't find any there are many Examples on social media though where Jewish students and others who are

Jewish have made videos of themselves Protesting and saying they stand in solidarity with the

Palestinians and that kind of thing against Israel So Israel is really the target of these protests

But anyway, that being said I wanted to show Greg Abbott because he's been probably one of the more vocal Republicans against these protests and that's what he said in relation to these protests

But I wanted to do a little flashback with Greg Abbott. This is what Greg Abbott said right when the

BLM protests were starting Let's be clear What happened to George Floyd is a horrific act of police brutality

People are rightfully angry, but the beautiful thing about America is

That every person has the right to make their voices heard to protest against this injustice

So Some very different sounding

Narratives coming from governor Greg Abbott, and I'm not the first to point this out. I know I saw on Twitter formerly

X no formerly Twitter see I'm still calling it Twitter X I saw that are in McIntyre a few days ago had pointed out.

He showed a video I did not show it here of police at a Texas University being very aggressive And he said look the

BLM protests could have been stopped anytime these people wanted them to but they didn't Handle them with the aggression that they should have or they could have and You see now though that there are

Republican governors who really are Very aggressive against what they think of as anti -semitism these anti Israel protests on college campuses

So that should probably trouble you a little bit to even if you agree with governor

Greg Abbott and the stance he took Why is it that he's motivated on an issue like this?

But in 2020 the motivation was not there as much. What's the problem? Why why not?

And I and it's not just governor Greg Abbott I probably should could have put a number of different Republican governors up on the screen

But I wanted to use him just because I think he has been extra vocal about this And if I with the time

I have I thought if I'm gonna pick one He's the one that I want to talk about now This is governor

Greg Abbott in contrast to the Democrats I showed you and and this is one of the big points

I want to make there is a civil war happening right now in the Democratic Party.

In fact, there's stories about it on social media right now you have

This story from CNN and this is a recent story It says this college campus protests highlight tensions in Biden's coalition

Now any other year tensions in Biden's coalition, maybe that wouldn't make a big difference to you but this is 2024 and we have an election coming up and More than one election and if there are tensions in the

Democrat Primary or sorry not primary in the general election if there are tensions in the

Democrat Party Then this could actually play favorably for opposing parties namely wrote the

Republicans. And of course this gets into You know why that is but it's really just what

I showed you You have two wings of the Democratic Party you have kind of the The party the older individuals in the party generally speaking who represent the old guard

They would be more pro -israel and then you have the younger voices who are the vanguards some call them but they are much more inclined towards a radical social justice and they look at Israel as a colonizer state of the

West and they look at the Palestinians as Brown people who have been subjugated and so you do the intersectional

Math on this and it looks like Israel is the white oppressor. And so that's how they look at it And so that's that's what they that that's what's motivating them

And this is splitting the party up and it means that the Democratic National Convention this year may very well

Have a lot of tension and it's not the first time a Democrat National Convention would have tension over social issues but it could be significant significant enough to perhaps even help the

Republicans and I think a lot of the Republicans probably know this and it might be one of the reasons that they're so motivated to act because The majority of Americans do support

Israel now that support has waned over time But there's an opportunity here for Republicans to secure both votes perhaps and money

Let's face it there. There's a demographic that feels under threat that has

More than the rest of the population per capita they have more money And so I think Republicans look at this and they see an opportunity and they're seizing it

So I know most of my analysis has been political. I am going to To give you some

Bible though, just so you know, we're gonna we're coming up on it But I want to set the stage for everything that I think we need to talk about here

Fox News is reporting that anti -israel protest nationwide are fueled by left -wing groups backed by Soros money and Of course

Soros is Jewish. It's I just think it is important to Emphasize that this is more of an anti -israel thing than it is an anti -semitic anti -jewish.

It's against a particular nation -state and that's that's what's motivating this

I know that so many people want to reframe this and They want to make it about Jewish people on campuses.

I've seen Christians doing this I've seen conservatives doing this that if any Jewish person gets hurt

I know there was someone in California. There was a student. I haven't been able to verify it, but apparently a

Jewish student who was beaten and I'm having a hard time though telling the difference between Jewish and Pro -israeli in fact even in that clip

I showed you of those two students at Columbia blocking Hamilton Hall I at least one of them was not

Not Jewish. Oh, they were in their ethnicity the other one. Maybe they had the little I don't know But they're not they're not coming from a

Jewish community the other one I don't think was either but the headlines were Jewish protesters and we're we're getting

Things are being conflated here So I think it's important to keep those things straight just so we know exactly what the issues are because if we get the issue

Wrong if we just see this as these are a bunch of Nazis who it which is the way that the right so frames this

Many many of the establishment right people are framing it. It's it's Nazis who want to Who just have like a racial problem with Jews That's that's a mischaracterization at least that that's not what the left -wing protesters by and large think that they're out there for there was a poll that I pulled up from late last year from the

Wall Street Street Journal and in this particular poll it says 55 % of those polls said they believe

Israel is taking the military action needed to defend itself and prevent another attack by Hamas 25 % said

Israel's military action is disproportionate and going too far. So like I said, it's popular In the country as a whole to be pro -israel

In terms of attitude towards a complex some 42 % of voters said they sympathize more with the Israeli people compared to 12 %

Who said the same of the Palestinian people? I'm sure that is changing. I'm sure that more people are probably going to the

Palestinian side over time as you know pictures and video come out of Decimated areas in Gaza and that kind of thing.

But when was this this was Doesn't say I know it was the end of last year.

I think when I put it in reader mode. Let me see if I can Pick it back up here.

No It was the end of last year though, I can't remember exactly when

President Biden it says received low marks for his response to the war with 37 % of those polls saying they approved of his handling 52 % disapproved and Then nearly a quarter of Democrats Democrats said they were more sympathetic to Palestinians compared with 17 % who said they sympathize more with Israeli people so you have more people on the

Democrat side sympathizing with the Palestinians just under half said they were equally sympathetic to both by contrast more than two -thirds of Republicans said they were sympathetic to is

Raley's compared to 22 % who sympathize more with Palestinians and 17 % who said they sympathize with both groups

So why am I bringing this up? Well, it's to say this the people on the

Republican side really have hardly anything if anything to lose by Sympathizing with Israel and they have they have much to lose if they don't right

The Democrats though are in the middle of a tug -of -war on this more people seem to sympathize with the

Palestinians But there's a sizable amount of people who sympathize with the Israelis. So what are they to do?

And this is where Aaron Wren had said yesterday on X that if your enemy has a problem if they're fighting amongst themselves

Don't solve it for them. Don't solve their problem. And I know Doug Wilson pushed back on this

Somewhat and there's been a lot of talk online I don't I'm not gonna get in all of it But there's been a lot of back and forth on what should conservatives and what should

Christians do about this? We're called to love our neighbor Shouldn't that mean that we if we have it in our power to stand against protesters at a place like Hamilton Hall We should do it.

And the first thing I would say about it is I think anything I say should be Should start this way

Those who did stand up at Hamilton Hall two nights ago and will perhaps stand up in the future on these college

Campuses as we see these protests going on many of them are to be commended because it takes a tremendous amount of bravery and You know,

I've never been in quite a situation. Well, actually Now that I think of it. I kind of wasn't one that was even more scary in some ways

But because I was at January 6th, and I remember being in the lawn of the

I've told the story before So I was in the lawn of the Capitol and I was told that we could be there by someone who was there

I asked are we supposed to be allowed to be here? And and then of course out of nowhere There's tear gas and also

I remember that and this is different than that though This is you know You are the one that's standing in a position and you have people coming against you wanting to get through you and there's a whole sizable crowd and so I've never quite been in that position

I did attend a protest against silent Sam which was a Confederate soldier monument in North Carolina and that was on a college campus

UNC and I did go there and I I gave out Gatorade to those who were protesting and then

I talked to them and I Debated them for like three hours and I mean it was great. We had professors coming out I've written about it before but it wasn't a violent protest at least at that time if it was

I probably still would have gone I just would have been careful but but but I saw it as a witnessing opportunity also saw it as an opportunity for these people to be challenged and their own thinking on this issue and So I've never quite had to face down exactly what they were facing down I think it the little tastes

I've have I've had of it. I do believe it does take some bravery. You are You are up against the mob you are up against the machine in some ways

I mean when you get enough people they don't behave like normal people do they

We call it the mob mentality and violence is possible. So I want to say that off off the top as A matter of prudence though on a very macro level looking at this whole thing and all the college campuses looking at the reactions of governors looking at Looking at those who are students who are conservatives even on these campuses the whole thing

I think we ought to be cautious about involving ourselves too much in these things and I have a very simple reason for that let me

Show you and this is just one example, this could be representative of probably any of these colleges But let me just show you what

Hamilton Hall is about. So Hamilton Hall was two nights ago. This was the building that was

Defended or there were Christian conservatives trying to prevent some students from going in there and very commendable again

I need to say that but this is a Hamilton Hall This hall was inaugurated in 1907 as a flagship building and still houses the

Dean's office. Okay, so the Dean's office is there The source of much of the problem This is a great day for the college.

And so they talk about when it was commemorated, but then it says That let's see

Hamilton Hall Let's see. Hamilton is depicted as an abolitionist. However, some research is okay.

That's not what I wanted What do they teach there? Okay, this is it Hmm Okay The story got broken up for some reason

I think because I put it in reader mode they teach US politics Canada's multiculturalism

South America's geopolitical rise. Oh, no. I'm sorry my bad. Let me let me take that back I think that's let me just actually get out of reader mode.

I thought it would help me being in reader mode But apparently not Let's see if I can go down to Hamilton Hall here

Okay It talks about the history of different protests there, okay, so there's four department offices in Hamilton Hall there's

Germanic languages Slavic languages classics and Italian language. It houses the center.

Now. Here's what I wanted to emphasize It houses the Center for race and ethnicity so Columbia University very left

University their Center for race and ethnicity. It's in Hamilton Hall where these conservatives were

Preventing protesters from going in and possibly messing things up a

Renovation that began in 2000 brought about a new Center for the core curriculum. So what else do they have their literature?

humanities contemporary civilization music humanities art humanities and major cultures departments

So many of the very departments who are cranking out critical race theory would be

Located in Hamilton Hall. This is where students are getting their indoctrination is in Hamilton Hall It's probably in all the buildings but Hamilton Hall holds a special place being the center of race and ethnicity so And the

Dean's office. So this is the building that they were protecting now you know that being said

I think it's important to these are some of the scriptures that I'm considering because I Saw someone this morning

Bring up the scripture. Well bring up Old Testament passage It was

I think was a particular passage if not passages where you see a principle of helping your neighbor right helping them if he's got a problem with his ox help him that kind of thing and That this is what you're doing.

You're standing for the rule of law. You're standing against the mob you're standing in favor of helping your neighbor and these

Helping your neighbor means helping I guess in your liberal neighbor as well This is where I make a distinction and I want people out there who are listening this podcast to understand why

I take a different Approach on this because I took a very public different approach on X and I Caught my

I didn't realize I would be in this but apparently I was in the center of a controversy over this a little bit And there were guys not surprisingly

Stephen Wolfe. I think even William Wolfe Were Saying things that kind of seemed like they agreed with with what

I was saying or maybe they thought I was saying things that agreed With them, but we were saying some of the same things Andrew like I said before our in McIntyre was saying similar things so was

I Can't remember now. There was some others but but then you had people who were saying no, that's not right at all

We conservative should essentially insert themselves into these conflicts because it's more or less about loving neighbor

So here's why I say what I do and I want to give you some scripture to think about along with this

I see this as more than just a

An interpersonal type of situation now obviously and this would be the difference if there is someone let's say a

Liberal professor and the mob wants to go take his life and you stand in front of that mob

That would be an interpersonal situation If your neighborhood had a mob coming and they want to burn your neighbor's house down.

That would be more of an interpersonal situation I suppose What I'm the way

I categorize this is more of a political slash public situation And it's closer to a wartime setting.

I Think that the United States is in more than an ideological war. It is an ideological war, but it's also an institutional war it's a culture war and it's perhaps a

Cold war with some flare -ups now and then but it is still a war There are friends and there are enemies in this conflict and an institution like Columbia University and specifically a

Building like Hamilton Hall and you could extrapolate this to any of the universities that are having the same trouble those institutions are

Really the center of the enemy's base That's where the enemy lives that's where the enemy promotes his ideology

That's where the enemy tries to destroy Christianity from within the halls of power that that's where the enemy is set up and Because of that I look at these institutions as more than interpersonal and I think that the ethics of war starts to apply at a certain point and so What are some verses that I'm thinking of you know?

This is beyond just loving your neighbor if you're loving your enemy, right even loving your enemy and giving him your code Or yeah, I I think we all know that that doesn't apply in a wartime setting that applies to interpersonal relationships, right?

That's what I'm talking about. Let me give you some principles Proverbs 26 17 says

Like one who takes a dog by the ears is he who metal passes by and metals with strife not belonging to him

Now this is a general principle. This could apply to interpersonal, but it could also apply to political fights If if you aren't the one if this isn't your fight then you are taking a dog by the ears and You're meddling with strife

It does not belong to you and and the question you have to ask is Do you have a dog in this fight is this strife that belongs to you now?

Some might say yes, of course because I'm you know, I'm pro Israel now I don't I don't know how you help

Israel exactly doing being on a college campus But you know the immediate threat right there is not to Israel the immediate threat is to the university.

It's to the college campus It's to undermining their authority in effect These protesters are preventing learning from happening or indoctrination if you want to call it that from happening

Which is something we should probably be happy about in some ways I mean less indoctrination is happening right now because the universities are in an uproar and So you have two enemies against each other you have a civil war in the

Democratic Party And it's this is how I view it. I don't think it's strife that belongs to me

This is my enemies are fighting now. There's some firm examples of this in Scripture. You see 2nd

Chronicles 2017 and 2022 through 23 says this you need not fight in this battle station yourself stand and see the salvation of the

Lord on your behalf Oh Judah and Jerusalem. Do not fear nor be dismayed tomorrow go out to face them for the

Lord is with you When they began singing when when Jerusalem or I'm sorry the the Judah began singing it says in praising the

Lord the Lord set ambushes against the sons of Ammon Moab and Mount Seir Who had come against Judah so they were routed for the sons of Ammon and Moab rose up against the inhabitants of Mount Seir Destroying them completely and when they had finished with the inhabitants of Seir they helped to destroy one another so You see this illustrated a bit in this particular passage where God comes to Judah and says do not fight.

I'm There there there's going to be two enemies that there's an enemy that wants to seek your destruction I would say college campuses are like that.

They seek the destruction of our way of life as Christians as conservatives They seek that and do not fear

I'm gonna raise up someone else to fight them and in this case Ammon Moab and Mount Seir had come against Judah were routed by Ammon and Moab there was there was a war of Israel's enemies against each other and Israel didn't have to even get involved and that's an advantageous position in a war

That's what the kind of place you want to be in in a conflict like that We see in 2nd Chronicles 35 20 through 24 another example here after all this when

Josiah had set the temple in order Neko king of Egypt came up to make war at Carchemish on the

Euphrates and Josiah went out to engage him But Neko sent messengers to him saying what have we to do with each other?

Oh king of Judah I'm not coming against you today But against the house which I am at war and God has ordered me to hurry

Stop for your own sake from interfering with God who is with me so that he will not destroy you

However, Josiah would not turn away from him but disguised himself in order to make war with him nor did he listen to the words of Neko from the mouth of God but came to war in the plain of Megiddo and Then he was shot he died and that's the end of Josiah generally a good king but then made this foolish decision at the end of his life to violate what

Proverbs says here T he took the dog by the ears and He passed by and he meddled in strife.

That was not his own and in this particular instance. This was With the Pharaoh and and so he suffered the consequences for that.

You also have in Mark Chapter 3 verses 23 through 27 And he called them to himself and began speaking to them in parables

How can Satan cast out Satan if a kingdom is divided against itself the kingdom cannot stand if a house is divided against itself the

House will not be able to stand if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided. He cannot stand but he is finished

So here's the principle that I see and and this this applies to friend enemy

You know battles distinctions that exist in the real world When your enemy is divided against himself, he is much weaker

He is much more vulnerable. And if the enemy is going to fight themselves

Or enemies both that have your harm in their interest. They decide to harm themselves instead

The wise thing to do is generally to stay out of that and that's why I suggest that That's probably what conservatives and Christians should do in this particular situation.

It doesn't mean you want violence. It doesn't mean you want Death and destruction. No one wants those things

But I so often see Conservatives talk about these institutions as our institutions our colleges saw

Mike Johnson last night on Sean Hannity saying this You know, these are our universities We need them to be safe places for students to learn and the naivety of that You know our students learning some things.

I'm sure they are. What's the by and large though the product of these universities? They're cranking out woke individuals who hate you hate your way of life want it destroyed these universities aren't our universities

These are you should the police come in it should the administrators call the police and sure

The administrators and the Democrats who live in these blue areas where most of these universities are located

New York City No being no exception should handle these matters Without Congress is my opinion, but without Congress Republicans in Congress stepping up to try to Solve the problem in a way that puts them

Coming down on one side of the leftist faction so that they can hive hive away some some

Leftists into their camp and we were so infiltrated already by leftists and So that they can solve they can put an end to the conflict so so they can solve this problem for the

Democrats You want this ideological conflict to continue if you're interested in winning elections?

that's my point and You you risk yourself if you're directly involved getting hurt in a conflict that is not your own

If you are a student or someone who's on these university campuses and trying to put yourself in harm's way

I noted that it was interesting to me in 2020 and even a little before then there were so many monuments to Christian men that came down all over the country

Christian men like Robert E Lee who is viewed as not just a southern hero, but an

American hero and a Christian hero more broadly I've done some podcasts on that he He's respected by everyone from Bill Bright to R .C.

Sproul to I mean you name it of the the old garden evangelicalism You know always looked up to him and yet when his statues came down in various places

And I'm just using him as one example. There were many more Did we see Christians go out anywhere to stand against the mob?

In the locations where they lived and I frankly did not this wasn't something that was done It wasn't but and if they did the news organizations weren't there like Fox News wasn't there to commend them by and large

Fox News Ignored a lot of this kind of stuff. It wasn't I'm not saying there was no stories done about it

But it wasn't the celebrations that you're seeing here There's sort of a celebratory Mentality posture that I see with radio conservatives and television conservatives

I'm talking about elite conservatives in You know powerful settings they seem to be you know, very very enthusiastic about Israel celebrating

Israel and Very much celebrating anyone who stands with Israel. It's it's all bravery to them

It's but when you would think statues that would mean more to them that mean more to America I mean, we're talking about a foreign country.

Don't forget that we're talking about I realize their significance biblically Israel has significance in it, but but we are still talking about a country on the other side of the world and yet monuments to people who actually

Did great things in this country like Columbus like Thomas Jefferson and like George Washington They they could they could hardly be defended and and that's one of the things that bothers me

It's the same thing that I showed you early with Greg Abbott encouraging protests peaceful protests for George Floyd and then

Calling for you know, any student who protests and you know in his anti -semitic against Israel apparently

That they should have suffered consequences Why the difference? Posture towards these two things.

What is that? Why is there this? enthusiasm for a foreign country so beyond so so beyond the country that we live in and in the heritage that we share

Something's very wrong with that and especially when you see it on the right It really confirms to me that America is dying or if maybe it's already dead in some ways

And that's probably the thing that a lot of older, you know I get in trouble whenever I use the name boomer con so a little bit because I have to define it every time

But I don't really know what else to say to call it people who? Especially are in that boomer generation who grew up during the

Cold War who still have that Cold War mentality who think of America as this very exceptional place that believes in God and It stands against communism.

It stands for the right things. It's hard for them to let go and I get it it's hard to let go of what you knew as a child and I Wonder though to what extent that's even still around if you can't defend your own culture

Against the mob you can't defend your own heritage. It is a conflict that belongs to you and you sidestep it or Treat it with kid gloves and yet when it's in the interest of a foreign country

You crank it up to level 10 and you're very enraged and you're fighting and you're what is that?

That means your allegiance is you have there's a problem there. There's a problem there with the order of Maurice.

All right Well, Jeff Prado made the same point that I was making Satan house is divided and it's not our job to fix it

I never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake says Gabriel H Chekhov says the difference in posture is the perceived cultural presence,

I guess Yeah, and I'm guessing by that what you mean is

The cultural the capital that you get you get you can peel off maybe some leftists to support you well, if you take a very pro -israel stance against these protesters and you

You're tough on them, but that wasn't the same in 2020 the left was united in 2020 against symbols of our own heritage

They're not united right now. That is a big difference Betty says if the wolf say it folks will disagree just because of Christian nationalism.

You've noticed that too, huh? Mr. Perry says

I will say the patriotic students in Arizona who protected the flag were doing the right thing But I agree Hamilton all yes, and I should have showed that video.

I didn't have it Right with me I did see that right before the podcast that there were some students on an Arizona campus who are protecting the

American flag and That did make a little more sense to me. But uh, but yes

As8 to 6f says John the agitators group were calling for a global in Into intifada from the river to the sea all

Zionists should be killed etc. I'll say it's both Israel and Jews Yeah, I mean

I know I've heard this kind of thing on the radio and stuff and I'm sure it's One of the issues with this is you have a big set of protests scope surrounding the whole country

So different things are being said in different places. I don't know To what extent that is pervasive, but to the extent it is and I'm sure it is happening this is still a

Anti -israel thing even those chants These are anti -israel more than anything else and it wouldn't make sense for Jewish people to be engaged in these things

If that weren't the case in my opinion that and I should just say again I think I've already said it but I'm not saying that there aren't people who are against Jewish folks

I'm not saying they're anti -jewish folks in these audiences. There are I'm sure there there probably are but The stated reason for being there the overwhelming majority of the people who are there what they say when they're interviewed on camera

If they if they have anything to say if they know why they're there is it's because of Israel and it's got the conflict with Palestine so One has to wonder says

Jurassic Calcas dress Calcas one has to wonder why the institutes that train these activists and bites back when they protest the wrong thing almost as if They are openly supporting our enemies

All right. Well, I think that's a mostly what I wanted to say. I was possibly thinking of having

And since he hasn't showed up yet. I don't think he's coming but having Andrew isker on the podcast He was a possibility that he might drop by to comment on some things that were happening on Twitter There's there's two though.

I commented on I think these are tweets that he wanted to comment on and I did I was in the thread in two of them.

So I'll just comment them on very briefly, but There was something Toby Sumter said he said remember anti white rhetoric is actually anti -christian

Don't take the bait if white people are Marxist. They are allies. If you're a black Christian, you've been colonized

The conflict is not about skin color. It's about religion and culture That's why they also hate Jews and a number of people jumped on this to basically say that's not true

Joel Webben was one of them And then Toby Sumter responded to Joel and says and this is where I jumped in.

He said, please note. I'm taking I'm talking About why the woke left hate Jews and I do think it's because there's a whiff of Christ in their

Torah observance despite serious perversions Enemies as regards the gospel, but be loved for the sake of the patriarchs.

They smell that so the argument here Is that this isn't really about race? This this whole thing is about religion.

It's a religious conflict I'm there's an is an element of religion here but you know what I responded and I said is living near high concentrations of Jewish people, which which

I do there's there are some towns that are Overwhelmingly Jewish that aren't far from me and I I've done a lot of work there in the past Doing repair work and so forth when

I used to do that I just said I can safely say that the reason some people oppose them here has nothing to do with Christianity and and I I'm sure

Of that they don't think that they're somehow, you know, they really hate Christianity and those

Jewish people remind them of Christianity That's not what's happening at all And I said in the people most concerned with anti -semitism tend to blame

Christians for the Holocaust And by the way, that is across the board and that is part and parcel to two

Holocaust studies In fact, if you go to the Holocaust Museum in DC, which I would recommend but in the beginning of the museum that is one of the arguments that's made is this is the

Anti -semitism of Christianity that eventually caused this and and now the theory is well

It could have happened anywhere really in Europe anywhere. That was Christian in Europe It just happened to happen in Germany first, but it would have happened somewhere else had it not happened in Germany I was essentially taught this stuff when

I was taking I took a Holocaust class on the graduate level. So That's just that's the pervasive thinking.

That's what leftist think of this So I think Toby is way off on this one and you know why he would say something that like that I'm not exactly sure

But I do know that on the right there is a need to try to Minimize race just because we the classical liberals at least on the right

Agree with critical race theorists that race is a social construct and because of that they don't think that conflicts are really over racial differences and If you look at the history of humanity though, that is one component too many conflicts is

Racial differences and it's not just skin color. I know that's the next thing that's often said which I think Toby said as well It's like well, you know, it's silly to fight over skin

It's not race isn't skin color though race is a lot more holistic than that In fact, I think if you went back a few hundred years if you were talking about race

If you're talking about ethnicity if you're talking about people if you're talking about nationality You would be talking about the same thing.

There wouldn't really be a great deal of differences between those things We've separated them out now because of a number of things and a number of developments including

Darwin's theories but But but that's essentially, you know, what race has meant is

Is a more holistic understanding. It's a people that have a lineage that goes back they have

There they're in there's intermarriage between themselves so that they are they can say that they're one people in that way

They live in us usually a certain region of land that they can call their own there So there's a sense of belonging.

Usually there's a religion attached to it as well. There's there's a number of things there I suppose evolutionists have reduced this to the biological components alone, but even that's not just skin color, so I I do

Disagree with Toby on that particular point and I don't it's it's a weird take So, let's see if I wanted to talk about that anymore not really

Not really. Yeah, and so yeah, I found the comment where he talks about, you know, it's skin color. So anyway

Nothing really more. I wanted to say about that I only had it queued up because I thought maybe Andrew isker was joining the podcast and he's not so or he hasn't yet at least

So I'll take some comments and then we'll get into the Arizona stuff Betty says wow They are changing history, aren't they

Hitler pretended to be a Christian for a time? But was just using religion Yeah, you know

Hitler's Yeah you have different versions of Hitler that just like you have different versions of Abraham Lincoln and different versions of many historical figures that are studied often and People will find threads and find quotes and they'll follow them and they'll categorize them and they'll make so the thing about Hitler is

Yes He was very involved in occult practices or at least he was very interested in those things and some people have tried to make out

That that's all Hitler is interested in Hitler did have a use for Christianity insofar as in not not true

Orthodox Christianity, but Christianity that could be commandeered or influenced by the state

In the Nazi Party. So in that sense, yes, he would say things that today atheists love to latch on to to say

Hitler was a Christian because look he Viewed Martin Luther as a hero to the German people. Of course he did and he had to it's like today

I was gonna say today if you saw George Washington as a hero to the Americans But I probably can't use them anymore.

Now. It's will be like Martin Luther King I suppose he's a symbol that can be used and so that's what

I think Hitler was doing there But no Hitler was not an Orthodox Christian and I think there's enough evidence to say he wasn't

Enthusiastic about Christianity. It was just something that he thought he could use Possibly and if he couldn't use it, he didn't want it.

So Let's see here other

Comments questions. I know there's a lot of stuff coming in The 21st century conservative intelligentsia is not especially marked by courage and I would say that's true

Which is one reason I think when you see something like Rory Wilson and his friend and I forgive me

I can't remember the name of his friend, but when they were standing there I think that is one of the things you say you look at that and you say yeah

Finally someone's standing up especially after 2020 the optics of that right Seeing so many monuments come down and so many buildings get destroyed with no one standing up and And to say hey, there's there's some kids that are brave now.

They're gonna stand up I think I think our hearts are yearning for that and We want to see some bravery out there

Of course bravery is great But we want to just think through the causes or the you know, our is this cause worthy?

Is this a risk worth taking and and then when you answer that question then as Davy Crockett said be sure

Be sure you're right and then go ahead All right. Well, let's get into the abortion stuff. I wanted to talk about that I'm not gonna take as long on this, but I wanted to share with you

Did I want to read this I want to read this first I want to read this and you know I should

I should really probably before I even start I should just make sure that the law I think it was supposed to be passed today.

I think the vote was today Let me just see if there's a verdict yet Okay, yes 49 minutes ago, so I have not read this yet We're gonna read it together and then

I'll comment on it. So Arizona Senate passes repeal of 1864 abortion ban

The Arizona Senate passed a repeal of the state's near total ban on abortion on Wednesday capping a week -long Legislative scramble to respond to the state's

Supreme Court bombshell ruling that upheld the law from 1864 The bill which the state house approved last week will soon head to Democratic Governor Katie Hobbs She is expected to sign it to state

Senate Republicans Shawna Bollick and TJ Shope. They should probably be famous Shawna Bollick and TJ Shope joined 14

Democrats in a narrowly divided chamber in approving a repeal of the Civil War era law that So these people need to be primaried frankly, you have to anti Well to to pro -abortion,

I'll just say that Republicans in the Senate in Arizona there And Bollick in a lengthy and nuanced speech ahead of casting her pivotal vote told several emotional stories of women who experienced major Complications during pregnancy and needed care that would likely be restricted under the 1864 law.

That's interesting since the 1864 law I'm going to show it to you Let's just read it a person who provides supplies or administers to a pregnant woman or procure such woman to take any medicine drugs or Substance or uses or employs any instrument or other means whatever with intent thereby to procure the miscarriage of such a woman

Unless it is necessary to save her life shall be punished by imprisonment in the state Prison for not less than two years nor more than five years.

So this has an exception for the life of the mother Because and it doesn't even punish the woman. It just punishes the abortionist.

The abortionist is punished if they Induce a miscarriage and it's not for the purpose of saving the life of the mother

So so there you have it now before this Went out I wanted to I don't know if I want to read this whole thing.

This is from an abolitionist group on Twitter or X I keep saying Twitter Abolitionists rising and this is what they said today

The Senate of Arizona is debating whether to repeal a law that punishes an abortionist two to five years for committing murder

This is three years after they repeal the law that punished the mother one to five years Should Christians advocate that we keep the existing law?

Which of course they did not well many rightly believe that incrementalism is ineffective and a delaying mechanism

It seems few understand that advocating for partial laws is wrong altogether They reason it is better than that not having any law or a worse law on abortion

There is only one just approach to the laws on about abortion. It must be treated equally to other murder charges

Protection cannot only be equal but justice must be equal as well God is not pleased with a law that gives two to five years a prison time only for abortionists

He demands justice and so it keeps going and it's it talks about so see that this, you know

We've had a pragmatic approach that doesn't align to Scripture This law in Arizona should be repealed

So so this app this is an abolitionist group and I understand there are different abolitionist groups out there

Which I I get this is just the one that I happen to see but this particular group Which I believe is based in Oklahoma believes that Just along with those two

Republicans who I just said should be primaried They would agree at least in this one point that the law should be repealed that the law

I just read for you that restricts abortion and the reason is because It's not equal protection

But they believe that it should be replaced with a bill to abolish abortion altogether

Okay, so that's where they would differ with those two Republicans as a practical point what will succeed in this matter?

What is success in this matter mean pills will still flow into Arizona as they already are But the Christians of the state will revel in a false victory one that saves no pre -born children

Many will grow cold thinking the battle has been won which has already happened in many states We must not be the means of falsehood

Satan uses to see the church victory will mean defeat for the pre -born Alright, so it goes on and it talks about how?

Essentially that well I suppose there's no winning solution here this is

In the minds of some abortion abolitionists and I'll explain what I think that means in a moment for those who don't know for them the the vote that happened today would have been

Bad either way because there wasn't an abolition law that would abolish abortion completely to follow it up with so it would just be a lose -lose and you know, this is a mentality that I am

I suppose somewhat concerned about now the reason I'm concerned is because I think that that law should have

Not been repealed if you don't have another law waiting and an abolition law Then what you've just done is you've opened the floodgates and there's going to be children dying

There's less children dying under this 1864 law, right? And so it should stay in place until you have something better to replace it with Which we all this is where we all agree and This would be everyone who's truly anti -abortion in all its forms and consistent about it would agree that the the only just fully just Endpoint goal tell us

Of any movement to end abortion would be the total elimination of any loopholes in the law that would allow for abortion,

I think that would be That that would be the consistent thing that everyone would agree on where the disagreement comes is a matter of strategy

And so is it a good strategy to? Take out a protection that is there that's not perfect that allows some exceptions

And with nothing to replace it, I would say no, I would say that's a bad thing actually And and you do have to unfortunately look at this is just the reality of politics

You do have to analyze political will You can keep trying to move that overton window, which you should do and this is where the democrats have been really good

What do they do after they gain a victory every time they gain a victory? They say we have so much farther to go every time.

It's never enough. They never can reach the end point They have so much farther to go So they push push push push and they get to that that rising tide

Gets that the wave comes in as far as it possibly can go and then they they

They tap in right there and they they put their their flag and they they then use that For the next time that they have momentum to push farther

And this is something that I think republicans have been overall unwilling to do They don't think in those terms.

They they think in terms of on this issue, especially uh, there's

I think an ideological component that perhaps sets us back from from Implementing winning strategies on this because You have some people thinking if it's not perfect.

It should just be just you can't You can't use it for momentum. You can't use it to push the needle so any heartbeat bill would be in this category really anything that Doesn't completely limit abortion just partially limits.

It is in this particular category and then you have a group of people that are just super Uh They're I think they're kind of ideological too.

You have another group that is obsessed with poll numbers and what people think and what's going to win them elections and uh where the majority is

What kind of exceptions that they want what will appeal to the most people who are alive?

And vote and and so they end up Not pushing the needle at all. They're content for the needle

They're content to just sit on the boat. And as the tide rises or sinks, they're just going to sit on their boat So they're not trying to push

Uh, put push the tide. They're not trying to um To to get any farther inland they they're content to to just be there

And those are the kind of people that you have to pull If they they'll abolish abortion if it suits their fancy, right?

So they're very ideological is not the word for them. They're opportunistic They're actually very unprincipled people

So you have ideologues On on these extremes and then you have unprincipled people and then you have a bunch of us and I would consider myself

I guess somehow somewhere I don't know if in between is the word, but i'm not really on either of those Uh camps completely um,

I have the same goal of Upholding god's law on this But the vote today is an evil vote the vote that passed to to abolish this law to um

To ensure that arizonians Can have greater access to abortion. That was evil.

That was wrong. That was in the wrong direction And so that's how i'm looking at it is direction and and unfortunately in politics with the system that we have without A dictator or a king or someone who can just create an edict.

That's what you have to do You're you're in the business of electoral politics um

So I I did see a number of people though who are Abolitionists who were very much in support of this law. And so I asked on x y that that was and uh, and and so some people were going back and forth and I realized quickly that abolitionists were

People who call themselves abortion abolitionists are split on this now I said I would explain what that was that my understanding is the difference between abolitionists and um, and they often like to contrast themselves with the pro -life industry, but I think

Or the pro -life movement. I think you have the pro -life movement. You have the elites in the pro -life movement that's like big eva to be honest with you, it's like That's kind of like what it is, right?

Would you say that there's just you know, there's just our group and then there's big eva in evangelicalism no, you'd say there's a whole bunch of people that are sort of caught in the middle that they're not big eva, but you know, they

They're the big eva's logical consumer I suppose So so you have a number of people that span the gamut on anti -abortion the abolitionists

Would would set themselves up as the anti pro -life in a way that the pro -life movement is very compromised

The pro -life movement doesn't want to punish women who seek to obtain abortions They think that's unjust the abolitionists say no god's law says

You're punished for murder. I would agree with them completely on that um, they would say that incrementalism is is wrong for the most part, although that's why

There are some abolitionists who think that certain kinds of incrementalism are okay are acceptable, but abolitionists by and large

That's what they would characterize them. They're against incrementalism So a heartbeat bill, uh, no can do

Anything that limits it but still allows it in certain forms is sinful because they frame it like it's you're

Voting for a law in that case that promotes abortion in certain times Even though most heartbeat bills are written that it restricts abortion.

They're looking at what it leaves out So they look at it as a promotion of a promoting abortion. That's how that's how they think on this at least the ones i've interacted with and This is coming up after the weekend when um

We had uh at the conference a little q a on this and I learned some things I did not know because I gave basically the argument

I just gave and um And someone came up to me. I don't know He hasn't given me permission to say who who it is

So i'm not gonna i'm gonna leave him out of it, but someone told me That actually a lot of these these hard people's were trigger laws

They only went into effect when roe v wade was overturned And so in a sense some of them and I don't know to what extent actually

Did open loopholes for abortions to take place that would not have been opened otherwise and If they didn't have a law that the murder laws would have kicked in Logically, I suppose and so I don't know all the ins and outs of the legal structure there but In that case it would be wrong

I think to vote for a heartbeat bill if it's going to if it's moving the needle in the other direction so that's how I look at is is we need to be strategic as and And push as far and as often as we can to secure an end to abortion

And that's why I think what happened in arizona today is a tragedy because this was momentum to build on not

Not something to destroy and in the context Destroying this bill, even though some abolitionists,

I guess think that's you know, this bill needed to go down What in effect is happening is it's going down in a context in which there's going to be much looser abortion legislation and so So that's kind of a problem so I don't really have much more to say other than that some of this i'm just thinking out loud for but I will take questions or comments or interaction

And I would be happy to do that still waiting for your review of the civil war movie. You know, it's funny My brother and a friend told me it was awful simply awful.

Don't see it Uh, it was stereotypical. It got conservatives wrong. It was a leftist pipe dream all that and And then when

I was at the conference And someone came up to me who said it was great. I saw it twice and you need to go see it

So now i'm not sure what to think Uh, if there is no god above the state the state becomes god the highest authority in our lives of those governed.

Yeah That's uh, very true. That's why we have to hold on to Whatever christian character does exist

Uh abolitionist we have someone I don't know if he represents all abortion abolitionists He says upholding god's law is not a goal.

It's a standard and we must repent towards god's law well It can be both a goal and a standard.

I mean it's those things aren't mutually exclusive I would say You think of an issue like pornography? And you're trying to limit pornography, right?

God has a law on this. It's evil. It's wrong Um, but I wouldn't say that, you know, unless there's uh, you know

I I won't vote for any bill restricting it because i'm waiting for that perfect bill. That's going to totally outlaw it

Uh, I I want that bill But uh in the meantime if there's a bill that shields my kids from seeing it i'll vote for it you know if there's a referendum that restricts internet providers, uh from I think in some states have this now the minors can't

Actually They're limited from seeing going to certain websites. There's filters. I don't know exactly how it works

I would totally vote for that. I wouldn't just uh, you know, see here incrementalism is is sin Well, show me the scripture that says that that's part of the problem um

And heartbeat bills aren't laws aren't written as if it's restricting it's written with exceptions.

Yeah There's different heartbeat bills though. I'm saying the ones that i've seen I haven't read all of them.

So yes, it is possible that uh, I'm sure i'm sure there are many that probably do have that Usually the intent though from what

I understand and this is maybe i'm being theoretical here because I don't have an actual bill that i'm looking at that i'm critiquing but um

Just go with me on this if there is a bill that is written Someone said on twitter the other day, uh or x rather You know, what if there was a bill that said it's illegal to murder on tuesday

Through or wednesday through the weekend half the week. You cannot murder and it doesn't address the other half of the week

It just says it restricts half the week. You can't murder and it's in a context This is being introduced where the whole week you can murder.

Would you vote for it? and I said well for the way you frame it makes a big difference if you're If you're putting a bill in place that makes murder legal for half the week

And they'll say that's the effect of it. But i'm saying well actually that may be the effect of it, but the um

But the framing of it does matter if you're putting Something in place that makes murder legal for half the week in a context where murder is legal the whole week

Then no you you're voting to make murder legal If you're voting for something that makes murder

Illegal half a week in a context where murder is legal the whole week then I would say I think you're you're well within uh your principles as a christian to vote for something like that so long as you realize the

God's law and and the goal that you ultimately have So you're implementing that as a political strategy with the ultimate goal being let's make it illegal the whole week

Uh, thanks john for interacting. Yeah, I appreciate you too. I don't know who you are but and and look, you know,

I appreciate I I get it like I get it i'm I realize too i'm not going through some of the situations y 'all are in some of these red states where you are fed up You have seen you've had republican majorities for years.

You've had republican governors They all say they're pro -life and they don't do anything And you're just as mad as a hornet and you don't want to compromise and to be honest with you in some of those red

States that may be the the right move that may be the the the best move, uh strategically

To get your message out. I live in a blue state right now And you know before that I lived in kind of purplish states.

I live in north carolina. I lived in Virginia, I lived in california for a year I I never saw that this

I never I there was never a hope of Having that level of control as people do in places like idaho and oklahoma

Um, okay, so for an individual that makes uh t t james moon says for an individual that makes sense for multiple

Legislatures and a legislator 10 rependent 45 pro -life switches 45 abortion commies take what you can get

Uh, yeah, that's I I get the frustration Um, someone asked if e michael jones will be a guess

I don't know I haven't i'm not very familiar with I mean People have mentioned e. Michael jones to me, but i'm not very familiar with his work.

So um, all right, uh I'll take a few more questions But then I gotta go, uh

If you think red states are about imagine being in canada where your conservative party is another shade of liberal pray for us. Yeah in canada

Yeah, it's just like being in new york in this way Like there's no we used to have in new york a pro -life party doesn't exist anymore

They can't find the people to be in it I am a registered conservative. I'm not even a republican.

I'm in the new york conservative party and um And they are still

I mean the republicans have pretty much punted on this issue in new york The conservatives are still pro -life, but they have no power and so in new york to be

Like if you're in the state legislature and you have the opportunity, let's say let's say to restrict planned parenthood

We're going to take some of the funding away Or I don't even know if that opportunity would come up i'm trying to think Strategically like when the last time they were able to even restrict abortion

But if you have some small thing you can do to chip away at it That's all you can do and you hope you save a few babies

But on the legal level, there's no way like if you if you just don't vote for any of those things um, then you're like because you're waiting for the bill that is is

Perfectly reflects god's law I'm, just telling you it doesn't come along unless there's a full repentance and an understanding of the wickedness and evil and sin which is why we evangelism and discipleship are also important parts of this process in a way or at least and I don't view them as means to a political end, but they just happen to be a they have political ramifications, so I think that Unfortunately, the deck is stacked against you in situations like that It's sad.

It really is sad And and so I I think that might be So someone told me in our q a because I was uh disagreeing with the pastor.

I guess a little bit on this And they said hey, uh, you know, the difference was You know because I said well you're talking about idaho.

I'm talking about new york and he said yeah, that's That's uh an abolitionist guy came up to me. He's like, yeah, that makes total sense what you're saying given kind of where you're coming from and so anyway um sad day and I I was praying for it, you know about that arizona situation.

It's just sad to me I I don't know what to say like their babies are gonna die Republicans do republicans have blood on their hands.

Yeah, those two certainly do they had an opportunity to prevent more babies from dying and they chose to they chose to be

Pro -abortion republicans and you know, did donald trump have a hand in this? I don't know if he did directly but uh, certainly his rhetoric hasn't helped lately on this

So would you advise general increment mentalism? For someone in canada or would it be better to dig in your heels and let the conservative party know?

That you aren't going to put up with them anymore. This is a strategic question, by the way And I think it's important to note that In 2016,

I had a similar dilemma with donald trump. I didn't vote for him even in the general now i'm in new york doesn't make as big of a difference, but I campaigned for cruz at that time now i'm looking back wondering why

I did that but at the time it seemed like the right thing and you know donald trump, um

Just he seemed like he was going to be pro -choice to me I know I know he made that statement about punishing mothers for abortion, but I just figured

He would he I just he was a liberal new yorker. I just didn't really believe him uh, he was uh pro homosexuality to an extent he was um

Not good on taxes. I mean he was a hillary supporter if i'm not mistaken back in like 2008.

So anyway To purify the party I advocated that people don't vote for donald trump because I figured the damage to The conservative movement the republican party was it was more profitable

To let us lose an election And then come in stronger with a conservative candidate than it was to win uh

With someone who was going to push the party left. That's what I thought I don't think I think um

Given what I knew it made sense and some of what I thought has actually come to fruition Uh, but I don't know if donald trump.

I don't actually don't think that that's because of donald trump as much as it is Just the way that the culture has changed so quickly so Um, so I think a little differently about it, but I think that was a strategic

Move and many people made it. I wasn't the only one It's funny on the panel on saturday at this conference

We had three people myself included who all said they were voting for trump this year And all three of us said we did not vote for him in 2016

Even in the general and I think a lot of that was we wanted to hold the republican party accountable So the same question applies to canada.

Do you want to hold? The conservative party in canada accountable you have to make a prudential judgment on that What elections can you afford to lose?

And will the the party will they get the message that the reason they lost was because their base

Disagrees with their message disagrees with their platform So, um, I don't know enough about canadian politics to know when that's prudent and when it's not

My gut is that if it's anything like the united states You are pretty stuck Uh local elections generally in the united states.

You can afford to lose them More often than not to purify the party on national elections with the stakes so high now for example in the united states,

I think the the big issue I know the The it depends on the state you're in but the democrats really want to make abortion the issue they think it's winning issue

I think for the republicans though it it's it's the border thing and the reason

I think that's such a big issue is because In the next four years you can say bye to any anti -abortion legislation

If you have permanent majorities that are imported here from the third world to vote democrats You see how serious that is.

I mean that affects the life issue. It affects all the other issues And so I think that is the huge issue going into this year

I can't afford really and this is my my prudential judgment I can't afford not to try to do everything

I can To make sure trump is elected again because I know he'll end that he'll at least buy us some time on that but you know,

I it's It's a dismal situation in so many ways and I don't mean to black pill you at the end of the podcast here

It's a prudential question though. That's what it is It's this is not a a rigid ideological question as much as it is.

What situation are we in and what can we do? What are the options available to us? I don't have options not available to me to choose from Which is so often the case

You know, I asked a guy, uh kind of a hardcore abolitionist guy, um, and I enjoy talking to him

Uh at the conference we were having lunch You know because I was like I don't really feel like I have an option

I I only have the options available to me And I don't want the perfect to be the enemy of the good

So I think i'm gonna have to vote for donald trump, right? And he disagreed with that and I said, well, like what do you do then?

And his answer seemed to be look you go you you make your voice heard you pray You know, but but you you you don't you withdraw you don't vote in the general election then

I guess That's the conclusion that I I got from him at least and you know, I don't see that as an option because I have kids coming, you know,

I I'm looking at the world they're going to inherit and I can't look them in the eyes and say

You know, I I just I I didn't do what I could to make this place as as good as I possibly could for you uh, because I I didn't have the perfect option

I didn't have uh, you know an option that I You know, I I didn't have someone that was qualified Um completely to be in this hold this office.

I mean at this point I want someone to stop the border issue So to stop the people from flooding over the border that aren't vetted that are some of them are criminals they are

There's economic problems all kinds of things attached to this but permanent democrat majorities being the main one someone has to stop that so that's one issue of many but That's kind of the way

I look at it and uh, you know, it's not a complete parallel I just the thought just came to my head though, you know the perfect enemy of the good um

You know, I I think of even like the way the pharisees um, and i'm not saying everyone who disagrees with me the pharisee at all but uh,

I I just think of the story of when jesus and the the apostles on the sabbath were um, you know, the pharisees got on to them because they they picked wheat and Jesus gives the example of david taking the the showbread in the temple temple even though it wasn't reserved for him because he says the law was um

That the sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath and he gives a general principle there And I think that you know, you have god's law, which is unchanging you also have um situations where it's worked out in the real world

And and you see this even in israel. You see they have regulations on slavery regulations on polygamy, right?

Uh today in the western world, we've totally regulated polygamy now

You could say practically speaking. Maybe that's not true But as far as marriage is concerned, you know, we've developed in our common law a greater restriction on that We we have with slavery as well and i'm prepared to say that those are good developments.

Those are positive developments suited to our situation suited to the world that we live in and so I think there is a suitability factor and jesus was getting at that that there's

Um, there's a suitability factor in uh in what the apostles were doing picking bread on the sabbath and you know it's um, and of course

You have to look at the reasons that you have these laws for the showbread reasons for the sabbath and that kind of thing

Um, they were in keeping with the principles of god's law but the outworking applied to the situation they were in a different situation and so It wasn't a problem for them to Um not essentially keep perfectly the uh, the laws that were suited towards uh for a situation where um and i'm getting out on a limb here,

I probably should look up the passage but suited for a situation in which they're traveling and they're hungry on the sabbath and and they are about the lord's work and so forth so so so that's you know what

I what I think of when I think of like What situation am I in? How can

I uphold god's law his perfect law? And How how can I be in this situation as guiltless as I possibly well guiltless

I want to be guiltless I don't want to violate. I don't want to sin at all, right? but if i'm in a position of being a legislator or someone who's um,

Voting which I will be here soon and we all will be in november. We we have that option to us How do

I bring about the best outcome? How do I um, how do I honor god?

And To the full extent I possibly can in the situatedness in the position he's put me in Which isn't the perfect situation which isn't the perfect world

And that's that's where I I I guess I i'm looking at well, I guess it's probably gonna be trump well

It's been an hour and 20 minutes and at this point i'm just taking comments and it's it's a q a time Um, we do have happy heart though in the channel and happy heart if you take your microphone, uh, if you unmute yourself

I'll definitely have you enter um Let me just take maybe another comment from the chat here

Uh rocket man asks, is it ethical to double the impact of your protest by voting against the conservatives?

So like make it crash sooner Yeah, that's that's a theory that I don't trust the theory is that if you if everything goes south and the left, you know goes south completely then

We can rise from the ashes I don't buy that actually because we've been saying that for years and it just keeps going

And people keep getting indoctrinated. Uh, I I don't think that's the necessarily I I just disagree.

I I understand the strategy I just don't think that that's going to be necessarily the outcome All right, uh happy heart we have uh with us.

Hey, how you doing? i'm good Uh, you're a happy heart. I don't know who this is exactly but uh, you i'm assuming you're one of the patrons

So i'll just say thank you up front You're welcome. I I didn't intend to get on i'm.

Sorry I was just listening in but you have some excellent points and super helpful as we think about um

How to you know traverse this this time, so I appreciate all you're saying. It's very helpful

Oh, well, thank you. Okay, so you didn't really have a comment. You were just listening in Yes. Okay. All right.

All right. I'll let you go then. Thank you so much That's very kind of you and I appreciate your support Um, all right.

Well, we'll probably end the podcast here Um, I know people are now debating you can you can keep debating by the way in the comments section after the podcast ends

These are things worth discussing and that's why I want to talk about them. I'm open to changing my mind on things but uh

It's like luther said scripture and reason I kind of need those things to be able to do that And that's why

I enjoy taking comments tomorrow morning Uh, it's tomorrow morning. Yes. It's tomorrow morning.

I believe at 10 a .m Look at my calendar. There is a Podcast I know i'm doing these close together, but i'm doing another podcast

Uh with cj angle, I think it's 10 a .m Tomorrow and we are going to be talking about woke right or right wing woke

You've heard this term perhaps if you're on social media But people saying that there's these new conservatives who are basically woke but they're on the right

And we want to explain that to you what's being talked about here Who are the woke right people and why are they being accused of this?

It's going to be a unique take that you likely won't get in maybe Partly any other places in evangelical podcast land but uh

It's going to be helpful. So cj angle and myself tomorrow 10 a .m. Don't miss it. God bless.