November 23, 2020 Show with Bob Amundsen on “Mentoring At-Risk Children in Perilous Times”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday, on this 23rd day of November, 2020, and I'm thrilled to have a first -time guest today.

His name is Bud Amundson, and he's the executive director of Youth 715

Ministries, and today we are going to be addressing the theme, Mentoring at -Risk

Children in Perilous Times, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Bud Amundson.

Thank you, Chris. Great to be here, and thanks so much for the invite. It's great to have you here, and in fact,

I'm right away going to give our listeners our email address if you have a question that you'd like to ask Bud. Our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com,

chrisarnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com,

and please, as always, give us your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, and I could understand that there might be some questions, since we're dealing with the subject of at -risk children, there may be some questions that do involve personal and private matters that would compel you not to identify yourself, and we understand that, but if it's just a general question, please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

Well, first of all, give us a summary of Youth 715

Ministries. Sure, and not to correct you, but to let folks know kind of the background of the name.

It's 71 -5, and so Youth 715 Ministries, and it comes from Psalm 71 -5, and that verse in the

International Children's Bible, which is the shortest, most concise translation of that verse.

It says, "'Lord God, you are my hope. I've trusted you since I was young.'" And we hold to, really, the hidden promise in that verse that talks about, you know, we have a lifetime of hope when we place our trust in the

Lord at a young age, and so that's really what we're about. So our mission statement, we exist to share

God's story with young people through trusting relationships in any relevant way, and we're a mission organization that focuses on the unchurched youth.

We work with youth of any age, and that is actually one of the reasons why, in 2018, we became an independent organization.

We were formerly a chapter of Youth for Christ, and Youth for Christ made a decision to focus on kids age 11 to 19 only, and we've been working with young people in the elementary age range and here more recently, and we can talk about this a little bit more, but, you know, adolescence is extending, and so we work with young people through their 20s now in our parenting ministry and also in our vocational training program.

And that's really, you know, that relevant way comment in our mission statement really shapes our focus to reach out to young people in any way that is going to be effective in reaching them, and so we have clubs and we have, you know, parent ministry, mentoring ministry, vocational training.

We work with young people in the detention system in our area, and we also not only have campus clubs, but work with families and young people in the neighborhoods, several neighborhoods in the communities that we're based in.

So, yeah, that kind of gives you a thumbnail sketch of what we're about and what we do.

And if anybody wants to find out more about Youth 71 .5

Ministries, their website is 71 spelled out in numbers, 71, and then the word 5five .org,

so it's the numbers 71 and then the name or the word 5five .org.

Well, before we go into the major theme, mentoring at -risk children in a perilous age, we typically on this program, when we have a first -time guest, we like to have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony, what kind of religious atmosphere they were raised in, and what providential circumstances our

Sovereign Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to Himself and saved them.

And I happen to be a friend of your dad, so that's not a typical occurrence on this program, where I know my guest's dad very well,

Art Amundsen, who is a pillar member of Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, where I also happen to be a member.

But if you could, tell us something about your own salvation testimony in a summary form.

Yeah, well, the closeness of relationship between you and my father makes me want to plead the fifth a little bit here.

Anyway, you know, I grew up in a Christ -centered home, and my father has always, you know, has often been in church leadership.

He, during the early years of my childhood, was a teacher and then headmaster of small

Christian schools, and we grew up in Christian schools, and if the church doors were open, we were there and participating, whether it was in after -school clubs or, you know,

Sunday school and Sunday service and evening service and Wednesday prayer meetings.

So, and coming from the Reformed Baptist tradition, there's a high value placed on theological and doctrinal education, and so I benefited from a zealous teacher that really wanted to make sure that his kids were well -trained in a variety of theological and doctrinal information, and now

I obviously appreciate that. I didn't appreciate it as a young person, and really, as I grew up,

I learned the form and function of Christianity. I learned...

I didn't question the existence of God, but I really struggled with, yeah, just the rules, and, you know, we all have a self -centered human nature, and mine wanted to fight for control, and so that's where, through...

So, in that, there was, at one point in time, I was 12 years old, actually traveled with my father to a church where he was giving...he

was preaching as a guest, and afterwards, he asked me what I thought and asked if I had given my life to the

Lord, and in that context, I didn't think much about it and really thought, well, you know, no,

I hadn't, and honestly, and this is not a bad reflection on him, but internally,

I was like, well, he's probably not going to let me off the hook here if I don't pray, so I prayed a prayer, but really, that didn't change anything in regards to my heart and my relationship with Christ.

Yeah, unfortunately, a lot of well -meaning but misinformed evangelicals treat what they call the sinner's prayer almost like a magical spell, don't they?

Sure, and, you know, to his credit, I don't think that's what my dad was shooting for, but I knew that if I assented and kind of worked this out, then

I would get off the hook in that context, and I wouldn't get pressured further.

So, all that to say, I went to church and youth group all through high school and did probably as much as I could to create hassles for the youth leaders that I was involved with.

As soon as I got out of the house, went to church sporadically, mostly because I just knew it was something

I should do, but, yeah, did my own thing, spent a lot of time, and, yeah, you know, this might be news to my parents, but I did a lot of partying in the latter part of my college years, and so just kind of went my way, and it really wasn't until I was 25 and had gotten married and was working as an investment broker at the time.

I love history, love archaeology, was reading an archaeology book, and there was a story in there that I shared about where the

British were fighting the Turks in the First World War, and one of the soldiers realized that they were in the same spot where Jonathan and his armor bearer kind of chased the

Philistines out of this valley and into the jaws of the rest of the army, and historically and archaeologically and geologically or geographically, that place exists, and in that moment,

I was like, wow, that's real, and that's when the Lord really opened up my eyes, and my prayer of salvation was, you know,

God, I don't know if I'm a Christian or not, but I know I want to be, and that's really where the Lord took control of my life, and, you know, the

Spirit entered, and I wasn't running my own show any longer. So how did you finally wind up providentially at Youth 715

Ministries? Yeah, another interesting story.

So I was an investment broker, and I've lived most of my life kind of outdoors, and I love adventure sports and that sort of thing, and I really just felt like this was not what

I was built for, kind of living for the weekend, not feeling fulfilled in that line of work, and, you know,

I actually commented to my father when he was out in Oregon visiting at one point in time that, you know,

I didn't really feel like this was the thing I was supposed to be doing, and he gave me a bit of good advice, and he said, well, you've got to make something clear to do next, and I said no, and he said, well, then wait, and so, anyway,

I put that on the shelf a little bit and continued, and anyway, three months later, I was improperly sued for wrongful termination, and I learned that the organization was, you know, more interested in kind of the quickest, easy way out of the problem, and in that setting, it really,

I just was like, I was discouraged. I mentioned it to a friend, and the friend said, oh, hey, Rose Valley Youth for Christ is looking for a ministry coordinator, you ought to check into that.

Well, my wife, she is an amazing woman, but when we were dating, she was always a little bit afraid that I was going to turn her into some sort of pastor's wife.

And why was she afraid of that? Well, she came from a culturally

Catholic background, and, you know, just, yeah,

I think she was born and bred to be kind of a corporate woman, and, you know, strong, self -made, very independent, and she just never saw pastor's wives in that realm.

So, anyway, and, you know, that's obviously changed with her maturity, but, yeah, she had this picture of a pastor's wife, you know, not really being out there and accomplishing much in the world.

So, that's where she literally, as I talked to her,

I was like, hey, I was thinking I might pursue this line of work, and she literally put her finger in my face and said,

I knew you were going to do this to me, I knew you were going to do this to me. And I didn't say another word, and I literally internally said, well,

Lord, if this is your plan, you're going to have to deal with that. And to her credit and to her ability to hear the

Lord, she came back literally three days later. I hadn't mentioned another word, and she said,

I know, or I hate that I'm going to say this, but I know that's what

God wants you to be doing. So, that's where I, interestingly enough, sometimes we have,

God gives us great situations of faith and trust that kind of mark, and I tell my staff, always have a memorial to your calling.

And, anyway, my memorial to my calling is actually a key ring that has

Edward Jones on it, and it's just a reminder, because in that situation, I had this suit going on, and I realized if I didn't stay employed by Jones, then

I would be personally responsible for that whole legal process. And so, very clearly, the

Lord's like, you know, I want you to trust me. So, I call my supervisor, and as I call and he picks up the phone, he's like, oh, hey,

I was just getting ready to call you. And I was like, oh, what's up? And he's like, well, we just settled that lawsuit, everything's all rigged out, cleared up, no problem.

And I was like, well, I was just calling to resign. But what was interesting is, you know,

God wouldn't give me that answer until I trusted Him and made that phone call, kind of stepped out in faith and willingness to go, all right,

I'll leave the consequences up to the Lord. And then in an instant, I mean, literally in an instant, it was solved.

It was completely out of the way, and I was really freed up to resign and go into the ministry.

Great. Well, that was pretty fascinating. And, well, let's start with our theme today now, mentoring at -risk youths or at -risk children in perilous times.

What exactly are the different kinds of children that would be under the category of at -risk children?

Well, it's a very broad term, and it really depends on, you know, what context you're discussing.

And I would even go so far as to say that any child is at risk in some way or another.

But typically in social services, an at -risk child is determined to be someone that now, when they're talking of risk in a child's life, they normally are talking about ACEs or what are called adverse childhood experiences.

And what is that child facing in their life that creates or keeps them from thriving and moving into adulthood to live a productive, healthy life?

So, you know, when you look at adverse childhood experiences, that can be abuse or divorce or, you know, a parent dying.

It can also be where there's, in the family structure, a lack of care, so neglect is involved.

We may have situations where the kids' basic physical needs are being met, but, you know, highly damaging emotional abuse going on within the home.

You know, beyond that, you know, abuse that's outside the home, whether that's at school or sexual abuse that takes place in neighborhoods and extended families and in schools.

You know, all of those situations, obviously, create adverse reactions in young people.

And what I've seen over the years, the best way I describe that is when a child has been abused, neglected, you know, their emotional well -being gets twisted and they begin to protect themselves and, you know, self -medicate through inappropriate emotional feelings and beliefs, and that moves into all manner of different addictions and issues that we see in the lives of adults.

And now, under the heading of mentoring, another key word in our discussion today, what does it exactly mean to mentor?

Well, so, yeah, I framed that with coming out of the at -risk situation, and when we're dealing with young people, really, in any scenario, but particularly in the at -risk area, most, if not all, come from some level of relational poverty.

And that's a term that we use internally, and really that's where those young people are missing the relationships that are necessary to thrive.

And so, how do we meet that need?

Well, it comes through, and what can actually completely rewire the brain is a trusting relationship with a caring adult that walks through life with that young person.

And so, obviously, mentoring in a cultural sense can be defined in so many different ways, and whether it is just reading stories for young people at a school or, you know, even monitoring a cafeteria or, you know, spending time in your youth group with young people, but with mentoring specifically, we talk about a formalized relationship that a caring adult gets involved and spends the time to build a trusting relationship that this young person can hang on to and walk alongside, you know, for many years.

Now, how does Youth 715 Ministries get in contact with the specific at -risk youths with which they work and for whom they mentor?

So, and that's where, again, our ministries are pretty broad, and so we have school -based and those young people come and, you know, play games and activities and interact with staff, and we present the gospel in that context.

Usually, in that setting, we see very quickly and easily that there are certain young people in that group that are missing that relational capital, the people that care about that kid in their life.

And so, whether we suggest a mentor or whether the kid says, oh, hey, you know,

I know my friend Johnny has a mentor. How do I get a mentor? And so, really, there's kind of a funnel effect to the top of our ministries.

Everybody's welcome and anybody can get involved, and really, we truly believe at our core that every kid could use a mentor, but obviously, we don't have the resources and volunteers to provide that.

So, what do we do? Well, that's where we work with our staff and identify young people and try and provide those formalized relationships for those kids that are in desperate need.

Well, we have to go to our first station break right now. If you'd like to join us on the air again, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com

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Bud Amundson, and we are discussing mentoring at -risk children in perilous times.

Bud Amundson is Executive Director of Youth 715 Ministries, and if you have a question, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

In fact, we have a question that does very much so involve a personal and private matter from an anonymous listener,

Bud. We have an anonymous listener who asks, We have adopted a child from a foreign country, and unfortunately the child, who came to us in pre -teen ages, has demonstrated a large degree of mental illness and violent behavior.

He has actually threatened us and our children with serious violence, although he has never actually done the physical acts.

Does your organization, Youth 715, work with such children, and how do we get a hold of you to have him enrolled in a program with you?

Great question. And, wow, that's a challenge, and I just want to, one, say,

I just compliment your willingness to adopt, and, you know, there's so many young people in this country and around the world that are dealing with trauma and are in desperate need of care.

And so, I just want to start off by saying thank you for caring about someone else's child.

And, you know, the challenge that you're facing, I mean, obviously, you probably don't know the full extent, but that young person is following a track often followed by adoptive children, and because they've experienced trauma and they're dealing with post -traumatic stress, they've got some stuff that they're not able to handle and aren't dealing with it appropriately.

And so, do we work with those young people? We work with them in a broad sense. You know, our ministry right now, even though I have hopes, desires, and dreams to take the mission beyond Southern Oregon, but that's where we are currently located, but I would certainly be willing to do all we can to find another organization.

And, you know, I'm not sure where this individual is located, but, yeah, I would certainly do all we can to provide resources wherever they are, because I, you know, we haven't adopted any children, but we have done a lot of parenting of other people's young...of

other people's children, and we know the challenges that arise in that situation.

It can feel just incredibly hopeless. So, yeah, kind of a roundabout answer.

Obviously, if they're in Southern Oregon, we could help in a much more practical way.

Beyond that, we certainly would do all we can to provide resources for this person, this family.

Now, I happen to personally know several different families who all adopted children from the same foreign country.

And more than half of those families experienced the same problem that our anonymous listener is dealing with.

I can remember one specific couple who adopted a child...in

fact, they adopted at least three children in that one household from the same country, and only one of them had this violent behavior, where they would be awakened in the middle of the night with him standing in the bedroom with a butcher knife that he had taken from the kitchen, threatening to kill them and their other children, and things like that.

And so, the other families, as I said, over half of them were having similar problems with adopted children from the same country.

And yet, there are other, as I said, other families that I know personally who adopted children from the same country, and they never had anything remotely even close to a situation like that.

So, I know that the orphanages that these children came from, that my friends had adopted their children from, were abysmal.

They were really horrible, wretched places where the children were not cared for properly, and they weren't tended to, they weren't nurtured in a loving and tender way.

Is that a common root of this kind of a situation?

It might not even be an adopted child, but is there a thread that is fairly typical connected to a child, especially when it's a child that's not even a teenager yet, who's demonstrating this frightening behavior?

Yeah, and there's a whole lot that is in this conversation right now.

There's so many different variables and elements to it. But, you know, one, and I didn't mention it earlier, but adoption itself is being seen as an adverse childhood experience.

So, just the fact that, you know, a child is put up for adoption and even gets that, so it happens in infancy, maybe, it just creates an adverse situation right from the start.

Well, all of those adverse experiences are some level of trauma.

And when trauma is unresolved, it comes out in really inappropriate ways, and that, whether it's violence or whether it is some other form of antisocial behavior, it is traumatic and critical.

So, how do you work through that? Well, it's a lot of different things.

And obviously, you know, and I don't say this as a trite, you know,

Christian answer. You know, prayer is critical in that situation, because, you know, unless you're different than me, none of us have the ability to change a heart.

Even, you know, with the best counseling and with all the different elements that we might be able to bring to help a young person, it still requires the

Holy Spirit to work and to change their heart. And so, beyond that, then, you know, trying to get to some of the challenges that this young person has experienced and try and get them to unpack that.

And oftentimes, you know, they don't even necessarily have a memory of it.

And so, how do you get to that? Well, it takes some love and care.

And oftentimes, I think, probably, primarily, you know, some professional guidance in that situation is critical.

The end result of all... I mean, every young person, whether they're natural or coming from adoption, you know, life is full of hardship.

And whether a child experiences trauma outside the home, you know, or whether it's something that takes place, bullying at school, all of that, those have deep -seated impacts into the life of the child.

And, you know, we're in a time within our society and culture where we don't have the supports that used to be there.

Our families aren't as close as they once were. We don't have aunts and uncles and people mentoring, you know, their nephews and nieces and cousins.

More families are spread out and more distant. And so, that...

And oftentimes, there's, you know, a lack of either both parents in the home or that, you know, there's been divorce and step -parents are involved in all that.

So, young people, I think, have, you know, in the past, experienced trauma, but had maybe a better network to support them.

And now, I think there's even more trauma that we see. I see that in our ministry here.

The stuff that we used to see maybe once a month, now we see on a weekly basis. And so, how does that get dealt with when one, you know, in the post -modern world, we should probably talk a little...

We're going to talk about kids. We should talk about post -modernism. But in a post -modern society with family structure that's broken down, how does that kid get, you know, the love, care, and support that is necessary?

And some trauma, I truly believe, needs some professional assistance. So, that's a long -winded answer and probably not a very concise answer, but the best one

I have. Well, you don't have to worry about long -winded answers here since we have a two -hour show, and I always want my guests to be as thorough as possible when they're giving an answer.

Iron Sharp and Zion Radio is not known for its soundbite interviews, so you don't have to...

I appreciate that. And we do have another listener.

We have Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, who asks, I know that you are a

Christian organization. When you are dealing with children that actually have parents and families from which they come, do they have to sign some kind of permission or release form, knowing that you may be teaching these children something different than they are being taught at home?

So, our formalized mentoring relationships, yes, there's a parent's permission slip is assigned for that, and yes, it's very much voluntary in terms of the kids or the parents' involvement.

And then, our other program, we just make it very clear that we're coming from a Christ -centered perspective, and none of our programs are mandated in any way.

Also, a young person has the opportunity, if they are involved with the activities, we don't force them to stay through the

Bible discussion. But one thing we have found is, through these trusting relationships, that's where, you know, it's really built the best bridge for the

Gospel, and that's where kids are like, yeah, I'll hang around because this person that cares about me is involved as well.

So, yeah, it's all voluntary, and for the formalized mentoring relationships, we do get a permission slip.

And we have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who asks,

Is a family required by law to call the police if a young child threatens violence upon anyone in the family, like the child described in an earlier question from an anonymous listener?

Especially, I was wondering if this was the case with minors who are threatening violence, not necessarily teenagers or older children.

That's a great question, and you'll have to make sure that the laws in Pennsylvania or whatever state you live in are the same.

I believe they're the same across the nation. There are mandatory reporters, and there are folks that are not.

And so, as a parent or family member, it doesn't qualify you as a mandatory reporter.

Now, if I heard that as an employee of Youth 715

Ministries, if I heard that that was taking place, then, you know,

I'd have to consider. Usually, threats by minors are not seen as something that is needed to be reported, unless you're in the school situation.

But, you know, obviously, if there's abuse or dangerous, you know, threats being made to other kids in the family, then we would see ourselves, because each of our employees are mandatory reporters, we would want to report that.

In fact, I want to pick up on that when we return from our midway break with a follow -up question.

And, folks, this is our longer -than -normal break in the middle of the show. Every day when we air

Iron Trip and Zion Radio, in the middle of the show, we are required by Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, which airs this show every day. In fact, it airs it twice a day in a prerecorded format, in morning drive, and then, again, at 8 o 'clock at night.

They are required by the FCC to air local things to Lake City, Florida.

They have to localize all their programming to Lake City, Florida. So they use this middle break to air their own public service announcements and other local things that are applicable to Lake City, Florida.

While they do that, we air our globally heard commercials. So we're asking you to use this time wisely by writing down as much of the information for as many of our advertisers as you can during this break, so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize our advertisers.

And that way, you're further ensuring they're going to want to remain our advertisers.

And that way, we will be further ensured that we will have a longer future on the air because we absolutely positively depend on the finances that come in from our advertising clients in order to exist.

So, even when you can't necessarily patronize a client, let's say it's a church and you can't visit that church, or you have a solid church home of your own, or you just can't use the services or products they provide, perhaps they're just too far out of where you live, or what have you, well, please at least reach out to them and thank them for sponsoring

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, if indeed you love the show. So, write down the information provided by our advertisers, and also write down questions for Bud Amundsen on mentoring at -risk children in perilous times, and send them to chrisornsen at gmail .com.

chrisornsen at gmail .com. We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors. Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Iron Sharpens Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine

Christian organizations to remain on the air, like the Historical Bible Society. The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts, and Bibles of historical significance spanning nearly a thousand years.

The mission of HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture, dissemination of scripture, to provide tools equipping believers and Christian apologetics with evidence for the

Bible's reliability, and to introduce Reformation literature and Christian art to a broader audience.

Since 2004, HBS has toured schools and churches throughout the Northeast United States, reaching thousands of believers and non -believers alike, who are hungry for knowledge of the

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today. Thank you, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, for your faithful support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops and local hangouts,

Long Island Youth for Christ, staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus. We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959. We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future. Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385 -8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333. Or visit liyfc .org.

That's liyfc .org. Here's what

Gary DeMar, president of American Vision, had to say about Iron Trump and Zion Radio recently.

Good to be back, Chris. I always enjoy our time here. I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there and I've been doing this for more than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

We're in good shape. I'm glad you said it on the air so I don't have to brag about myself.

Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Trump and Zion Radio airing live Monday through Friday, 4 to 6 p .m.

Eastern Time at irontrumpandzionradio .com. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and the

Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new, beautiful facilities in Corham, Long Island, New York.

I've had the privilege of opening God's Word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my

New York debates. I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island to anyone who wants to be accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the

Holy Scriptures, and to be surrounded by truly loving and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.

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Pastor Christopher McDowell. For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island that you heard about them from James White on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Chris Arnsen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a

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Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the

Arn Sharpen's Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions, while always defending the key doctrines of the

Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the

Internet where folk won't be led astray. I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

Knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

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I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris, if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com,

where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshipped, and how he shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship, and how to worship

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Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know

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That's PTLBibleRebinding .com When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the

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This is Pastor Bill Souser, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ. And of course the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org That's gracechurchatfranklin .org

This is Pastor Bill Souser wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.

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Before we return to Bud Amundsen and our discussion today on mentoring at -risk children in perilous times

I just have a couple of important announcements to make. Tomorrow on this program we should be having a really fascinating and vitally important interview that involves the

COVID virus hysteria. This is going to feature two cardiologists

Dr. Jaeger and Dr. O 'Rourke as well as Ernie Springer who is the founder of Old Paths Publishing.

They are going to be discussing a new book that they are all involved in and that book is

Coronavirus and the Leadership of the Christian Church A Sacred Trust Broken.

So I think that this should be quite a fascinating interview. You want to mark your calendar for this interview tomorrow here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio that's

Tuesday the 24th of November. Friday we've got a long time friend of mine on who's been on this program many times and a first time guest.

Friday during the first hour this is the day after Thanksgiving we have Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries joining us and you'll have to stay tuned to hear the topic we are going to be addressing during the first hour.

But during the second hour we have our first time ever interview with John L.

Cooper who happens to be the lead vocalist and bassist and songwriter and producer for the musical group

Skillet. And he, John, is going to be discussing his new book

Awake and Alive to Truth Finding Truth in the

Chaos of a Relativistic World. That's John L. Cooper second hour this

Friday on Iron Trip and Zion Radio discussing his new book Awake and Alive to Truth Finding Truth in the

Chaos of a Relativistic World. And since we're talking about mentoring children

I wanted to ask my listeners for prayer on December 3rd, which is a

Thursday we have scheduled to be on this program some dear, dear friends of mine going back to the 1980s

Jerry and Fern Hill the founder of the Timothy Hill Children's Ranch which is a home for homeless children they have a facility for boys that has been in operation for the entirety of its existence going back to the 1970s,

I believe but they also have a more recent facility for girls the

Timothy Hill Children's Ranch is a wonderful ministry for at -risk children and my friend

Jerry who, as I said, I've known for many years he, I believe, he's 90 years old although if you've met him you'd never know that he was 90 years old not only because of his youthful appearance but his physical fitness his mental fitness and awareness and alertness well,

Jerry just had a stroke and from what I understand it is not too severe

I may get another update on that that contradicts what I just said but from what

I understand he is responding but he's just a little fuzzy in the way that he responds but hopefully

Jerry will be completely fine again by the time our interview rolls around and I will be giving you an update on that but please pray for Jerry Hill and his wife

Fern and pray for the Timothy Hill Children's Ranch in general and we hope to be discussing that on Thursday, December 3rd right here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio also folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves

I'm asking you please to go to ironsharpensironradio .com click support then click click to donate now you can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion if you prefer snail mail there's an address that will appear on your screen where you can mail a check made out to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio when you click support at ironsharpensironradio .com

that address that you need to mail that check to will appear on your screen also if you want to advertise with us we certainly could use your advertising dollars so as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe you can send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail dot com and put advertising in the subject line you don't have to believe identically with what

I believe but you need to be promoting something that is at the very least compatible with what we believe also folks

I want to remind you as much as I need your donations and urgently need your donations because we have been hit very hard financially during the hysteria of the coronavirus pandemic businesses that are owned by listeners who donate to this show and also listeners who own businesses and who are the heads of organizations who advertise on the show have been hit very hard themselves financially during this pandemic and the hysteria accompanied by it so we in turn subsequently unfortunately have been hit really hard and if you really love this show and you want us to stick around please

I'm urging you to donate as frequently as you can and as generously as you can to iantropanzionradio .com

but having said that please don't ever siphon money away from your regular giving to your local church where you are a member in order to give to iantropanzionradio .com

please don't do that, in other words don't financially punish your own church by giving to iantropanzionradio .com

don't put your family in financial peril either by giving to iantropanzionradio .com

those two things are commands of God if you are like really struggling to survive and make ends meet then please wait till the

Lord blesses you in a greater way financially before giving to us because providing for your church and your family are two commands of God that you cannot overlook and providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of God but if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands and you have extra money well please give frequently and generously by going to iantropanzionradio .com

click support and click click to donate now if indeed you want us to stick around this program has tens of thousands of people who download the show every single month and yet for some strange reason we only have a tiny handful of people that donate every month and I want to thank that tiny handful they donate generously

I'm not saying that they donate tiny amounts of money our listeners are very generous and I thank you from the depths of my heart in more ways than I could describe adequately for your loyalty your faithfulness, your generosity and your love of this show which encourages me beyond explanation but with tens of thousands of listeners downloading the show every month there are a lot of people who never give and I'm just baffled by that so please help us out if you want us to stick around iantropanzionradio .com

click support then click click to donate now also if you are not a member of a local bible believing church you need help finding one

I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world and may be able to help you find a church

I've already helped many people in our audience in all parts of the globe find churches near them that are biblically sound sometimes within minutes of their home they didn't even know that they existed so send me an email if you are in that category to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put I need a church in the subject line that's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest today

Bud Amundson on mentoring at risk children in perilous times that's chrisarnson at gmail .com

chrisarnson at gmail .com and before the break a listener

I believe it was Arnie in Perry County Pennsylvania asked about the legal requirements for parents when a child especially when you are talking about a preteen makes violent threats may even be as this listener was the listener before Arnie Arnie the anonymous listener was asking about a child that they adopted that was carrying a butcher knife and Arnie was asking about the legal requirements to report such an incident to the police especially if it involves a minor

I was wondering if you knew about the same situation where you have minors and it may be innocent and I have to be careful with the way

I phrase this but you have minors that may be doing something that appears to be sexual molestation of their siblings or another child or what have you but it may be innocent maybe curiosity playing doctor as the old phrase goes do you know what the legal requirements of that kind of a situation are so yeah again there is classifications in terms of reporting requirements so there is no law that requires a parent to report their child and it might be a situation where an older minor is creating such a situation that it needs to be reported by the parent they obviously need to use their wisdom in that regard and for me personally

I don't know that there is ever a situation and I appreciate your willingness to say you have to word things carefully but yeah those sexual exploration elements really are almost always a problem and so that's where something needs to be done and whether people outside the home should report that sort of thing people inside the home should get some help for the kids that are dealing with it and mostly because where did this child learn that behavior is something that really needs to be addressed and I'm not saying that every situation is a carry over from a child being molested but a vast majority of the time when they are pushing that kind of behavior on a sibling or another child that they know it comes from the fact that they've had that behavior done to them when you're volunteering in the church or in a ministry or a child or a children's program almost

I think in every situation you are a mandatory reporter the only time that that is maybe withdrawn is in a situation where in a

Catholic church where a confession is held as a non -mandatory reporting scenario but otherwise if we hear about those things we need to report outside the family

Okay and we do have let's see here

CJ from Lyndonhurst Long Island New York who asks what is a typical problem going on in households that would require your involvement in mentoring children

I understand that they may be an impossible question to answer in the limited time that we have but I was just curious if there was a more routine issue and you could please compare and contrast those problems that are involving secular households where the

Christian faith is not present and even problems that exist in Christian households where the parents are members in good standing of biblically sound churches and the

Bible is being taught in the home but the problem still persists Wow How much time do we have and probably would need

Well you have right now before we go to the final break somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 minutes

Yeah so I mean that is a deep multifaceted question again we work with any kid we truly believe that every child even coming from a healthy family needs kind of a what we call a third voice in their life so there's mom and there's dad and then often times particularly in adolescence they need that third voice someone that comes alongside them and you know confirms the right and good and appropriate messages that are coming out of their family and also you know challenges the young person to you know hold on to those things and then it's also there's many situations where inappropriate dynamics are being taught to young people and hopefully there's a godly person a third voice again that can say well you know here's what scripture says about that or here's what we know is right and proper in that situation so every

I mean every every person needs someone that walks alongside them you know as adults we generally have friends but we have mentoring relationships that are peers or I'm pretty strong on having historic mentors so people that have lived before me that you know

I read their books and learn from their life and we all need that so you know every person needs that scenario for me it was a farmer that when

I was about 11 years old he invited me out to help him bale hay and then he just connected with me in regards to you know he'd listen to what was going on he'd share his life and I'd share my life

I'd spend a lot of time riding on the fender of a tractor he took me hunting something that I enjoyed that my father wasn't particularly interested in and I learned a lot of skills and things related to farming but the biggest thing is he loved me cared for me

I trusted him and he taught me an outside perspective of you know my family you know

Christianity he walked through really difficult times when

I was there with him and he was relying on the Lord so even though I didn't really grab hold of that till later in life

I saw that example he was somebody that I knew I trusted and I knew he cared about me and I knew he loved

Jesus and so that really stuck with me throughout the years and then you know going beyond that scenario and our society today is deadly you know mixed into that the fact that we have gotten to a situation where you know you hear the term post -modern and you might you know throw around the term post -Christian but our culture it trains our children to determine truth through their feelings and you know you see every

Disney museum movie in the last you know 30 years how do you figure out what to do when you look inside yourself and you seek to you know find out who you are and what you're about by looking inside yourself and those of us that come from a traditional historic

Christian perspective realize that inside ourselves left alone without the work of the

Holy Spirit there's nothing good there and so when we are allowing or training our young people to determine what is true and right by how they feel it's a deadly scenario so again that situation

I don't know that any household in our country escapes that so my guess is and I was grateful for other adults pouring into my kids because as much as I work to train them to follow the ways of Christ there's this huge secular culture that is grabbing a hold of them and teaching them very different principles and having another trusted voice or having actually better many other trusted voices in their life is crucial so there's probably another element of that question that I'm not touching on but that's what

I could remember sure that was very adequate the issue of there are organizations

I don't want to mention them by name because if you have something negative to say I don't want to necessarily disparage specific organizations unless you have something of urgent need that needs to be publicized about a certain organization but there are organizations that invite anybody of course

I'm sure they screen these people somehow when they respond to the commercials but they invite anybody to be a mentor to children are these kinds of organizations really recommended by somebody like you it almost seems especially in this day and age we might not have even thought twice about something like this 20 or 30 years ago but things have gotten so insane with the level of evil and depravity that has been reported in the media very frequently about the abuse of children in all kinds of monstrous ways are these kinds of organizations trustworthy for the most part or what can you say about that kind of model where you might even be advertising to the general public hey join us and mentor a child right yeah and you know by and large particularly the national organizations that offer that are you know they do a good job of screening and those are you know good things for young people but you know you gotta really be involved and so I can say that you know secular relationships you know people that don't have a relationship with Christ still offer you know good things to young people in need they're not the best you know thing they're not going to help them eternally but I can say

I've had coaches I've had friends parents I've had you know other people that don't know

Christ that have been helpful and supportive in my role or in my life and that role allows them to you know influence me to be productive and upstanding and you know develop into a solid adult again what are they motivated out of what's going on as a parent you gotta stay close and monitor those relationships because trust brings influence and so if your child trusts this person they will have influence in their life just gotta be involved we're going to go to our final break it's going to be a much shorter break than the last breaks so if you do have a question we strongly advise that you send in the questions quickly before we run out of time our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

chrisarnson at gmail .com and as always please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

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We have another anonymous listener with a question for Bud Amundsen. What do you think churches should do to be more involved in having children mentored that are perhaps the children in one -parent households, either due to divorce or to a widow -widower situation, or perhaps a mother has had a child out of wedlock?

Should more men and women be stepping up to the plate in congregations, at the direction of their elders, of course, in order to be involved in such ministries?

Well, I would like to pay that person for teeing me up here for a minute.

I really want to talk about that, because, you know, that is the best possible question to ask, and it's really, you know, crucial for the

Church to understand that trusting relationships is really where the focal point of youth ministry needs to be.

We have been program -based for numerous decades, and basically, the

Church as a whole has farmed out the relational segment to paid staff and, you know, the youth workers and, you know,

Sunday school teachers. Those are the folks that reach our kids. Well, it's not nearly enough.

The situation of young people has, you know... There's so much underneath this, but we talk about there's no longer strong meta -narratives in our culture.

So, we don't function off of the same value system and same greater stories.

And so, young people are more and more isolated. So, even in the

Church, those young people that we're working with are coming from a much more varied value system.

And so, without connecting at a deep level and building trust, with us just communicating information, it just doesn't go far enough.

And so, as I talked about earlier, trust brings influence. And, you know, you think of the average youth pastor, and if they're really extremely gifted, they have the ability to build relationships with maybe 15 young people.

And most are dealing with groups that are greater and sometimes far greater than that.

Well, how does that pastor influence? Well, you can teach and preach and talk to kids, but with a greater post -modern perspective, again, where a kid is able to determine their own set of truths, that's the culture that they're coming from.

Even though their family may be saying, that's completely hogwash and not true, that post -modern perspective comes in, and it's so much more difficult for a pastor to communicate to those young people in an effective way the truth of God's Word.

Also, you know, again, there's so much behind this, but young people are determining truth through their feelings.

Well, you know, God's not surprised by that, because, you know, can you think of a book that teaches truth through story?

Well, the Bible, right? Well, so story is incredibly important in communicating with young people.

Facts, figures, information, that spoke to the modern mind. Post -modern mind, you have to tap on their feelings, and to do that, information has to come in the form of story.

And so, story, how do you communicate story? Well, obviously, truths out of Scripture come in story form, but a young person oftentimes needs a stepping stone, and for me, it was that farmer that got involved, that connected, and he shared his life, he shared his story, he shared what was going on on a day -to -day basis, and, you know,

I'm less post -modern than these kids are today, but that is what resonated, that connection, that story, that true, real -life, how he trusted in Jesus spoke volumes.

So, also, I would say, you know, many churches are doing youth church, and so the youth group becomes this, like, distanced arm of the body, and statistically, only 20 % of young people that participate in youth group actually go on to be a part of the adult church.

That's a horrible statistic. Why? Well, because there aren't enough relationships that draw young people into the church body.

If, in a typical church situation, if you look at the congregation and you see young people, teenagers, walking into the sanctuary or to another event at the church, they're like cats.

They walk along the outside of the room, unless they've grown up and they have many relationships in that church, and those young people, they'll walk through the center of the room.

They'll feel like, hey, this is where I belong. I'm a part of this body. Well, a youth pastor and youth staff, they're just not enough bodies to draw those kids in and make them feel like this is their home, to draw them in and teach them about how church functions, and to engage them where their gifts are.

You know, we, as individuals, because we have no comparison point, we can't determine what our giftings are.

And obviously, God can speak to us in some respects, but it's through other people. It's outside perspectives.

When somebody says, wow, that's a gift. You're good at that. That's something that I can't do, but you can do.

Well, that comparison allows a young person to go, hey, this is where I fit into my church context.

So, yeah, man, if there's one thing I could communicate, it's the fact that all of us, as God -loving, you know, adults that care about the future of His Church and the future of our young people, we have to get up and out of the pews and connect on an intimate level with young people that are in the

Church, outside the Church, and a part of this next generation. Great.

We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who asks, how can a person volunteer for such a group that might not be a part of their local congregation, but is more of a para -church organization like yours?

Well, I would say, find them and give them a call. Get online. You know, we're constantly asking folks to get involved, and that's where, if you live in Southern Oregon, I encourage you to go to 715 .org,

and there's a tab there that says, Involved, and hit that and get involved in one of our ministries or another.

Other areas, you know, if you're interested in working with young people, you know, if you have a youth pastor or someone involved in your

Church that is connected with youth in the community, ask them. They know who the players are, and go get involved.

And the website, again, is 715 .org.

And I'd like you to have about three minutes or so to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today before we go off the air.

Wow. I would just reiterate, really, it's all hands on deck.

If we're going to impact this next generation, it really takes God's people getting involved, building trust in a relationship with a young person.

They're not like we were or are. They come at life in a very different way.

Don't lecture. Listen. You know, find out.

So, we talk about three stories. So, find out their story, and then you have a story.

You get to share somewhere those two stories overlap. And then, God's story.

Somehow, God impacted your life. And so, God's story has made changes in your life.

And so, where their life and your life and God's story intersect, that's the most fruitful place for evangelism.

That's where it's a natural thing, because, you know, they're dealing with stuff in life, and they're wanting to know, and you've dealt with it or are dealing with something similar.

And how has God moved in your life and answered those questions and brought peace into those challenges?

That's the most powerful message that we have. So, what does

God call us to be? Witnesses, right? And so, we're not all preachers.

We're not all teachers, but we are all witnesses. And we all... If you have an authentic relationship with Jesus Christ, then you know enough to lead someone else to have an authentic relationship with Jesus Christ.

And so, that's where it just takes a little bit of patience to build that relationship, to find out who they are, you know, to not be critical, not be judgmental in terms of what's going on.

They're functioning in life off of their best answers. So, you be patient with that, and then when they ask you, well, what do you think?

Then you have opportunity to share your story and what's going on. If they're sit back, you know, kind of like the proverbial borrowed dog, then you've got to let them off the hook and say, okay,

I'll come back to that. But then, if they ask you and engage your experience, boy, that's where you have, again, opportunity to give glory to God, to show what

He's accomplished in your life. And don't go for a decision. Look for a transformed life.

That's critical as we work in the lives of young people today.

Amen. Well, I want to repeat your website. It is 715 .org.

And once again, the numbers 7 -1 are in number form, and the word 5 is spelled out in letters,

F -I -V -E. And that's .org. So, we want to thank you so much,

Bud Amundsen, for being our guest today. And I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater