Live from the LDS General Conference Outreach

Apostolic Defense, Gospel Outreach, and the Call for Grace

Alpha and Omega Ministries presents the Dividing Line radio broadcast. The Apostle Peter commanded all Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us, yet to give this answer with gentleness and reverence.

The Dividing Line is brought to you by Alpha and Omega Ministries, Calvary Press Publishers, the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church, and Bethany House Publishers. Your host is Dr. James White, Director of Alpha and Omega Ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church.

If you'd like to talk with Dr. White, call now by dialing 1 -888-TALK -960. That's 1 -888-TALK -960. And now, with today's topic, here is James White.

And welcome to the Dividing Line on this Saturday afternoon. I don't know what it's like there in Phoenix, because I am currently seated just outside of the South Gate of the Mormon Temple at the General Conference of the Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints.

There's about 25 ,000 -30 ,000 Mormons here, and about, I'm not sure how many there are of us, about 10 of us here. Okay, I'm looking over at Rich who's giving me hand signals from the other direction.

We are live today. That means we will be taking your phone calls. We'd like to hear from you as we stand here, passing out tracts and sharing with folks here at the General Conference of the LDS Church.

This is, for me, number 30, 30th consecutive General Conference, 15 full years of coming up here every April and every October, first weekend April, first weekend October. And for some of our folks, this is like 15, 20.

And for a number of our folks, it's number one, the first time they've come up and done this. And each one is having a little bit of a different experience today. It is cold here in Salt Lake City. I know it's not exactly spring-like weather in Phoenix either.

At least it wasn't last evening when we were at the Mesa Easter pageant, the pageant in Mesa, Arizona. And, yes, we were there last night. We left a little bit early because it started to rain and was extremely cold.

But we've been there during the week, and now we're up here in the middle of the long stretch of ministry that the Alpha Omega Ministries is undergoing between now and May. And I hope you'll continue to pray for us as we continue to take opportunities to share the gospel with folks.

1 -888-TALK -960. And you know what? I have the foggiest idea what the other number is locally anymore. 508 -0960. There you go. I better remind myself of that one. 508 -0960 is the local number. And 1 -888-TALK -960 outside of the area.

And if you'd like to talk with us up here, if you have any questions about why in the world we do this, we'd be glad to talk with you. I'm sitting here right now looking across, and I'm seeing a number of our people in conversation.

I see the vice president of the ministry, Larry Vondra, with one, two, three, four, five Mormons. Oh, nuts, four Mormons and one Christian around him. He's been talking with them for quite some time. Some of our brothers from the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in San Diego.

Randy Churchill, for example, is talking with a LDS young man. They've been talking with him for quite some time. And I can see in the LDS young man's hand a copy of the book, Letters to a Mormon Elder.

Don't know who wrote that thing, but, hey, it's nice to see it going out. My son Joshua is just trying to pass a track to a whole group of LDS people, well-dressed, coming across from Crossroads Plaza.

And most of the folks are trying to look right past Joshua, but he gets the tracks out as well as anybody else does. Sean Hahn has been in a number of conversations up here. I currently can't see if he's in the middle of one or not.

But I've had a few, and the ones I've had have been, well, they probably got to be rather frustrating. Frustrating in a sense that the last two conversations that I had that extended for more than about ten minutes were with LDS folks who, when seeing the direct teachers contrary to particular LDS beliefs, simply looked at it like, well, that's just what the Bible says.

The last individual that I spoke to, we were talking about the nature of God. And I shared with him the commandment from the Old Testament where Jehovah says, no other God but Him. The fundamental truth in the Old Testament.

But for the Mormon, it's a problematic commandment. It's problematic because in Mormonism you have Jehovah, who is Jesus, and Elohim, who is God the Father. And since in Mormonism these are separate gods, separate and distinct gods, in fact, Elohim is the Father of Jehovah.

Elohim became a god before Jehovah became a god. And in fact, after Elohim became a god, he begat Jesus. Since Mormonism is, in fact, a system that believes in a plurality of gods, a polytheistic system, then these commands in the Old Testament regarding the subject of monotheism and the worship of only one true God create a real problem.

Well, in speaking with this individual about the commandments of God, that he is to worship only Jehovah, his response was basically, well, that's just your interpretation. And so I asked, over and over and over again, I asked him to tell me, all right, if you say it's just a matter of interpretation, then please tell me, what does Jehovah mean when he says, you shall worship no other Elohim, no other god, but me?

Well, I never got an answer. I asked over and over and over again, but no answer was forthcoming. Instead, just emotion and anger that we would be bothering to do something like this whatsoever. And so, quite honestly, folks, when you stand out here and you share, as we have now for 15 years, and you talk with individuals in any other context, the absolute necessity of the work of grace in the human heart.

Over again, individuals who, when faced with the direct commandment of God, when faced with the direct truth of God, have no ears to hear, have no respect for what the Word of God says. And, if anything, has driven home for me, with tremendous strength, the need of a supernatural work of grace in the heart.

Regenerate generations with a change of nature, so that the truth of God can be heard. Well, you see it when you come out here. You see it when you share with folks. And for a lot of folks who come out for the first time, it's a rather soul-shaking experience.

Explain to someone the truth of God, and then see it rejected. See it just simply utterly dismissed, without even a bit of concern. That causes the Christian heart to tremble. We tremble at the Word of God.

We tremble at the authority of God. And so, to see others making light of that authority, and making light of that commandment, it truly causes us to be very concerned. And, obviously, coming out here first-timers, they think, Well, all I've got to do is I've got to show them all the right verses, and I show them the right verses in the right order, and I give them a good testimony, and boom, they'll believe.

Well, you can be very, very well prepared. And you can have answers, too. But God's the one that has to open hearts. God's the one that has to open ears. We can't do it by, no matter how erudite we are in our proclamation, how fancy we might be, this type of work reminds you.

It is God and God alone who saves. But, of course, some people might say, Well, man, if these folks are so hard, if these folks are so difficult to talk to, why have you been up there now for 15 years, 30 times now?

Why do this type of work? Well, as I'm looking right now, as I'm seeing Randy talking to the same Mormon person, I see that Sean Hahn has joined into Larry's group, and that we now have three Christians talking to four Mormons.

You see, there's only one particular Mormon who's talking, but the other three are listening. And I can't tell what's going on with those other three. I don't know what seeds are being planted. I don't know what kind of work the Lord might do in those people's hearts somewhere down the road.

I just can't tell. I don't know. Every time we get into these conversations, there are other people who are standing by. Sometimes they're Christians. Sometimes we recognize that the people that are going to be edified are primarily Christians who are hearing these conversations.

And there is a role for edification where Christians hear the response that is being given, and they are edified. Their faith is strengthened by these types of encounters. We just don't know. But we trust that He is glorified when His truth is proclaimed.

And that's why we come up here, and today, why we do a lot of shivering, a lot of shaking. And up until just a few moments ago, I was wearing a thick leather jacket, and I had gloves on. But I'm sitting in somewhat of the sun.

It's not exactly the Arizona sun, but there is some sort of sun coming down right now. And so I don't have the leather jacket on, but I'm still fairly warmly clothed, just trying to keep the fingers warm.

Sometimes getting tracks out is difficult in a large group because you can't move your fingers fast enough to grab them to get to the next group of folks that are coming out. But that's why we do it. We trust that God will be honored and God will be glorified in what He's doing.

But I'd like to talk to some of our volunteers. I'd like to talk to you. Give us a ring. Give us a call. I believe in some way, shape, or form, by the miracle of technology, I will be informed by some supernatural means, or actually by very natural means, when we have callers online.

And if I don't get names and things like that, don't worry about it. We'll get you on one way or the other. But I would like to have the opportunity of hearing from you here on the dividing line. If you have any questions about what we're doing up here today, if you have any questions about Mormonism, call in now.

Please, whatever you do, resist the temptation to wait until five minutes before the hour. That's what everybody does. And at that point, it's going to be very, very difficult for us to do a whole lot.

So if you want to get in, now is the time to call. Even if it's just to encourage us in our work up here, let us know that you're praying for us. If you have any questions about the types of responses that we get from people, what types of tracks we're passing out, what are some of the key issues that come up over and over again, hey, let us know.

Give us a call, 1 -888-TALK -960, outside of the Phoenix dialing area. 508 -0960 is the local number now. Give us a call. We'd like to talk to you. Right now, what we're going to try to do, and this will be a little bit tricky to do, is put one of our faithful volunteers on the air who is currently giving me a terrible, horrible face, which means no, don't you dare.

But we're going to do it anyways, because this is live radio. And it's our hour, and we can do it when we wish. So if Rich over there will hand the phone over to Sean, Sean Hahn, and if Jim there in the studio can work his wonders.

Sean, is Sean on with me? I am here, yes. Oh, this is very strange. I can hear you out of one ear, and then I hear you out of the other ear just about a third of a second later. But anyhow, Sean, how many times have we dragged you up here to freeze to death out here in Salt Lake City so far?

Well, Jim or James, I was trying to recount today, I think this might be my fourth trip. Fourth trip.

The first one wasn't where we have the picture of you with the snow accumulating on your shoulders, was it?

That was about my second trip, I think.

If that had been the first one, it probably would have been the last one as well.

Potentially, yeah. At least we've had a few snow showers today, but very light, just nice and brisk out here today.

I was wondering what that white stuff coming down the sky was, and all the volunteers have been somewhat laughing at my son, who has been enjoying his first touches of snow that he can remember, and snow flurries and stuff like that.

Now, Sean, I know you're a big hunter, so you could be out shooting all sorts of living creatures on a Saturday like today, but instead we've got you up here, and I just saw you were in a bit of a conversation, and I was watching the Mormon person who was talking to you.

What were you all talking about? What were you trying to share with him?

Well, he had brought up a passage in and out of the Book of Ezekiel that they often use as a proof text that there's prophecy contained in the Word of God prophesied about the forthcoming of the Book of Mormon.

Ah, yes. And it's somewhat frustrating sometimes when you take them. I say, okay, where is that text? And we flipped open, I believe it was in a, Jim, help me, Ezekiel 26, 30, 36.

I think it's 36 off the top of my head, yeah. But I took him there.

It's about the two sticks being joined together. Correct, yeah, we went there, and he just basically said that was my interpretation. I tried to take him to the Hebrew word for the word stick, and I tried to explain to him that Ezekiel, when he uses the word, this is in fact talking about a wooden stick and not a scroll, and when he wants to use the word scroll, he does so earlier in Chapter 2 and Chapter 3.

Right. But he didn't want to hear that, and he had some friends, better things to do, so off he went.

I understand how that works. But, you know, I've often emphasized the fact that giving an answer, letting people know there is a response to these things, God is glorified when we give that answer, even when that answer isn't accepted.

Now, I was mentioning before you got on the phone that a number of the conversations I've had today have ended up devolving down to a person's unwillingness to obey and to listen to the Word of God. And I know over the years that you've been coming up here, you've undoubtedly encountered the exact same type of response to where you show clearly what the Word of God says, and yet when you do so, there's this willingness to accept one's feelings and emotions above the authority of the Word of God.

And I'm sure that probably bothers you as much as it does me.

Yeah, most definitely. When you can take them to the Bible, and you can point things out to them, and you try to explain it very clearly, and if it contradicts what they believe, then their personal testimony kicks into gear and now becomes the authority.

And then you want to ask them the question, how do you know that that personal, quote-unquote, brain in the bosom is in fact of God? And you just get that smile and that look like, well, you'll just know it if you had it.

I asked a man, I said, how do you know that that's not last night's pizza? And he didn't like that.

No, I imagine it's probably good that you're not a small man when you say something like that to these folks. Just simply so that you keep all your teeth in their current place. But you're exactly right, though.

Over and over again we encounter the very same theme in talking with these folks. And isn't it ironic that right now, somewhere in the United States, there is a commercial running, one of those very nicely made commercials for the LDS Church.

And if you call the 1 -800 number, what do they send you? The very book that as we stand out here talking to folks, they end up undercutting its authority because of the fact that it contradicts what they believe.

And it absolutely is amazing to me that that is what takes place out here. Now, Sean, you're a part of a fellowship there in Phoenix. Why don't you tell us which one it is?

Well, I attend a church on 29th Avenue and Bethany Home Road called Sovereign Grace Bible Church.

And I recall hearing recently that you were climbing trees outside of your church, hanging things.

Is there a particular reason why you were doing that? I had a few people honk at me as I was up in the palm trees, hanging a large banner that's advertising an upcoming conference that we're going to have at our church on April 17th from about 7 .30 in the morning until about 3 .30 in the afternoon with four different speakers, good men of God coming from all over the state of Arizona to proclaim the truth.

And who might they be off the top of your head?

Actually, we even have one gentleman that's coming from California by the name of James Ranahan. He is a professor at Westminster Theological Seminary. And he's coming. We have a Mr. Chantry coming from Prescott Valley.

It's called Miller Valley Baptist Church, I believe. And then we have a man by the name of Benny Diaz. Benny Diaz?

Yep. Former Vice President of the Alabama Dominican Ministry, as I might say in passing.

He will be there. And then, oh, I'm having a lapse of memory here. The last speaker, Jim, you saw the brochure. Help me out. I've got a lot on my mind.

Oh, you have a lot on your mind. I hardly even know what my house looks like anymore, and you're saying you've got a lot on your mind. Well, it's a good speaker, and you're feeling... Hey, they will forgive you because you're talking about Mormonism right now.

I remembered.

I remembered Pastor Steve Cole from Flagstaff Arizona. There you go. Yes.

A true shepherd of God. Don't worry, I don't think the radio signal makes it to Flagstaff, but we do put all this on the web, so someone will surely play this over and over and over again for him. Well, Sean, it's wonderful to have you up here, and I want to let you get back to mapping out those tracks and talking to folks.

But thanks for joining us just for a few moments. Okay, thank you. Thank you. 508 -0960. 508 -0960 is the phone number. 1 -888-TALK -960. And I don't know if there are any callers online. I don't think there are at the moment.

Of course, I'm a long ways away, so I'm having to peer very intently at the control booth at Q96 to find out exactly whether there's anyone talking to us or not. I am standing currently. You can hear the cars going by me.

The right lane is approximately four feet from me. There goes a diesel. And we're standing at the south gate of the Mormon temple, straight across from Crossroads Plaza. It is currently between sessions.

And for those of you who wonder what in the world the General Conference is, the General Conference takes place each first weekend in April and the first weekend in October. The reason that they do it at this particular time is the LDS Church was founded April 6, 1830.

And in Mormon scripture, it is actually said that April 6 is the date of the birth of Christ. So the General Conference falls as close to April 6 as possible and then six months later. And so during the General Conference, there are three sessions on Saturday.

The first session began at 10 a .m. and got over with an hour and 20 minutes ago at noon. Then there's a huge rush of people coming out. Like right now, I'd say there's probably 150 people right now coming back into the temple grounds from over Crossroads Plaza, a very large shopping center across the street.

We all like to eat, and so do the Mormons. And so they are all coming back with their McDonald's cups and so on and so forth, having satiated that hunger. And they're coming back in. The next session begins in 40 minutes at 2 o 'clock.

It goes from 2 till 4. Then there's another two-hour break. And then from 6 to 8, there is what is called a priesthood session. The priesthood session is all men because only men hold the priesthood authority in the LDS Church.

Hence, starting somewhere around 4 .30, 5 o 'clock, coming out of the southeast gate. And it will be all men. And we have video and pictures of past conferences where we go down that line in reverse. Instead of coming from the front line, we come from the back line.

And two of our most experienced tracks, my son Joshua and Randy Churchill from San Diego, team up with one another and they hit the priesthood line, normally with tracks relevant to the priesthood. And it is always a wonderful thing to drive away from the conference in the evening as we go to try to catch our flights home, seeing all these people standing in line going into the general conference.

And they are holding our tracks and reading our tracks as they go into the general conference. So that's the schedule for today. During this period of time, we end up having a lot of conversations because there are a number of people who basically don't have any place to go for a while.

They're not going to be going specifically to the next session of the conference. A lot of these guys are going to be waiting around now for the priesthood meetings. Therefore, this is a time when they're not rushing to get someplace and they have an opportunity to talk with us.

They'll sometimes stop and talk with us. Today we're passing out all sorts of different tracks. Joshua just walked up to me and he's passing out, but it is translated correctly. I can see Larry over there passing out, I believe that's Mormon Jesus, the track on what the Mormon Church teaches about Jesus Christ.

People are passing out Grace Plus Works is Dead, our track on salvation. I have a special track that I'm passing out this time around entitled Joseph Smith Inspired Translation, a Revealing Test, which is a little track that has a far too long of a title, but it specifically documents the fact that Joseph Smith changed the reading of John 1 -1, John 4 -24, John 6 -44, and Romans 4 -5, and specifically asks the question, well, if we know what those passages originally said, and we do, without a question, there are no textual variants in those passages regarding what Joseph Smith changed, and no manuscript in the world reads as Joseph Smith rendered in his own quote-unquote translation, and if we know that John is Christ and Joseph Smith contradicts them, who does that tell us Joseph Smith is?

Whose apostle is he? And that is the track that I'm distributing today, and we're using the line that we have been taught by Randy Churchill. He passes out tracks saying, Are you LDS? And Mormons say, well, yes.

And now since they've responded, you can then hand them the track, and it seems to be working rather well indeed. So right now, another big group just came by, Randy and Josh are over there. Sean's already got three Mormons standing around him and is back in conversations explaining why we do what we do, talking with folks there and sharing with them.

And so the work continues on. You never know who's going to come up to you. You don't know what the questions are going to be. You don't know what areas you're going to be challenged on, but you get the opportunity out here to find out just how good your biblical knowledge really is as you take this time to witness to folks and to share with people.

Someone who needs a break job just drove by right behind me. I could do well if I fixed cars just staying right here. Let's see if we can find Joshua. Joshua, come on over a second. So far we have no one who has any questions about Mormonism online.

I see. Well, I guess that means everyone in Arizona knows everything there is to know about the subject of Mormonism. And I just had Josh put on the airline. What we're doing here, so you can get a picture of this, I have a cell phone.

I bought a super-duper high-powered battery. It's supposed to last for two hours and 45 minutes. If I disappear, you'll discover that advertising is not always what it's cracked up to be. But there's also two payphones here.

And Rich Pierce is manning one of the two payphones. He's gotten a number of dirty looks from people who were waiting in line. He didn't notice it, but that's okay. And he just handed the phone to my son, Josh.

How are you doing, man? Good. Well, I think we figured out number four for you. Yes. Number four. You've got to speak up just a little bit. Nodding the head doesn't do well on radio at all, as I mentioned when we were in the studio that one time.

Now, you like to say you're 13, right? Yeah. You're actually very close to being 13, right? Yeah. Well, anyways, I know how it is to be young and want that birthday to get here a little faster. This is the fourth time up, and have you noticed that people maybe give you a little more respect, maybe a little more willing to take a track from you now than when you were like a foot shorter than you are now?

Yeah, I think they do. I think it was Thursday evening out at the temple, or was it Wednesday evening that you got into a conversation with some folks out there? It was Thursday. Thursday evening had a chance to talk with some folks and to talk with them about the differences between what we believe and they believe.

There's a lot of folks out here about your age, aren't there? Yes. And they're sometimes willing to stop and talk, aren't they? Yeah, they are. It can be a bit of a challenge in regards to the fact that a lot of these Mormon folks are willing to talk about what they believe and why they believe it.

Well, you keep getting those tracks out, young man, and we'll hopefully get home together tonight. We're flying standby, so we hope we make it. But thanks again on the phone with me, Josh. Okay. I've been given a note that says that we need to take our first break, and I would like to encourage anyone, please, 508 -0960 -1888, talk 960.

Give us a ring. We would really like to talk to you up here, live from the South Gate of the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City. We'll be right back. And we're coming to you live from the South Gate of the LDS Temple in Salt Lake City, General Conference of the LDS Church.

This is our 30th consecutive missions trip up here to Salt Lake City, and we are passing out literature and tracks to folks here, about 25 ,000, 30 ,000 of them, and about 10 of us, very good odds. And that's what we're doing today.

And I understand we have a cell phone caller, and since I'm on a cell phone myself, I know how difficult that can be. So Stephan is on a cell phone. We're going to see if we can bring him on. Stephan, are you there?

Yes, I am. Are you there? I'm here, sir. Hi, James. Yeah, I just want to let you know I'm really excited for you guys down there. What an opportunity it is for you guys to witness. I can't believe you've been down there that long all those years.

But I'm so excited. In fact, we're praying for you, all 10 of you guys down there. I really appreciate that. And let me say, when I started this, I had a whole lot more hair than I do now. Gosh, I can imagine.

Well, my question for you today is I was just curious to why or what do you say to an LDS member when you first walked up to them today? Say you were walking up, and what's the first thing you say? What's the first witnessing thing that you say?

All righty. Well, we're going to try something here, Stephan. I hope it works. But we're testing the technology to its max here. We're going to try to bring Larry Vonderhaar online at the same time. Larry, are you able to talk to me?

Yeah, I can. Okay, we're all here. And Larry can answer this, too. The question basically was what do you say? Personally, as I've been distributing literature today, I've been using the RULDS. And when they say yes, then I say I wrote this for you.

And since I wrote all of our tracks, it's easy for me to say that particular direction. Larry, what tracks have you been passing out, and how have you been approaching it?

I've been passing out what the Mormon Church teaches about Jesus Christ and men is not God. I even take a simpler approach, like to get one of these. That line, is it? Yeah, I keep it simple and quick.

And what kind of reactions do you normally get?

For the most part, we get either pass by or simply take one, or occasionally one or two people, three people, stop and talk.

Okay, that's normally what I get as well. And, Stephan, frequently the response then is once people do stop, they say something along the lines of, well, you know, why would you be doing something like this?

Why would you stand out here and pass out literature and talk to people? And that's when we get the opportunity of basically trying to explain that God's truth is a right and a wrong. And I'm not sure if Larry remembers this, but constantly are encountering this subjectivism amongst individuals that simply say things like, well, that's your truth, it's not necessarily my truth, this type of thing.

It can sometimes be very frustrating to try to explain to people there is one truth, it's God's truth. He didn't stutter when he gave us his word, and that we all need to be in subjection to it. Stephan, you still with us?

Oh, we lost Stephan. Okay, well, then we've got another... Okay, all right, that's fine. George and Peoria, can we have George? Hey, James, how are you?

Hey, doing pretty good. Good. I just wanted to encourage you guys and all the people that are out there, thanks for giving up your weekend to stand for the truth like this.

Well, I really appreciate your calling in and supporting us, and right now when we're up here talking to these folks, it's nice to know that we're not alone and that we're not the minority that it sort of looks like when we're out here, for sure.

My question is about Easter.

As far as the LDS Church, why are they celebrating Easter? What does it mean to them? Is it the same as a Christian perspective as far as the Resurrection? What does the Resurrection mean?

Very, very good question, and I'm glad you asked it, because from the world's perspective, from an observer who is not familiar with the theology of Mormonism, from an observer who isn't concerned about the fundamentals of what a system teaches, it looks like they're doing the exact same thing that we are.

They do believe in the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. They do believe that he died on the cross and that he was raised to life. So from a perspective like that, most people would say, well, there's no difference.

The problem is that once you start thinking about who Jesus Christ is in Mormonism, that is that he is the first begotten child of an exalted man from another planet, that he is a separate god from God the Father, he is a secondary god in point of fact, and that the atonement began in the Garden of Gethsemane, that the atonement was only finished on the cross, but that it began in the Garden of Gethsemane.

It does not atone for all sins, and that from the LDS perspective, the resurrection of Christ, what it accomplishes is the resurrection of everyone. Everyone is going to be resurrected, hence everyone is quote-unquote saved in Mormonism, so that you can be resurrected, but then you have to be exalted to the status of godhood, which is by a completely different process.

Once you start getting down to the fundamentals, you see how very different the whole thing really is. The sad thing about our culture and our world today is if you get down to those details, and you ask what a system is really teaching, you are automatically considered to be unloving, unkind, etc., etc., etc.

So from the external, it sounds like the same thing, but once you really start digging down into it, there are some real fundamental differences.

Well, God bless you guys. Okay. I'm real proud of you. I'm real proud of your son, and I'm sure you are too.

I most certainly am. I should mention, if I don't want to get a really cold stare when I get home, that the last two nights here out at the Mormon Temple, my daughter Summer was with us, and she really wanted to go out tonight too.

I don't know if she's going to be able to make it or not because we're not there, but both my kids have gone out there with me, and I'm very proud of them. Thank you very much for your prayers and your support.

Thank you. God bless. All right. We do have some more callers. I'm watching my watch here to make sure I don't run over our break time, but I believe the next one is Glenn in Glendale. Glenn, you're with us.

Yes. Hi, Glenn. How are you doing? Fine. Thank you, and God bless you for your work there. Well, thank you. I just had a question. I have three questions, but the first one is, is there at least an outside chance that some of the individuals that are attending there, that attend LDS churches, are Christians?

Yes, I believe there is. We do encounter situations that bring this out, and here's how it happens. Especially the modern LDS church will do everything in its power to get you into the baptismal waters, and if they can do that on a positive information, on the sparsest amount of information they can, they'll do so.

And so the story that I often tell is when I first wrote the book Letters to a Mormon Elder, some Baptist friends at the church that I was attending at the time brought over to my office a lady who had been a member of our church, but had joined Mormonism.

And so I started talking to her, and I said, well, what convinced you to go from believing in only one true God to believing in a plurality of God? And she's like, well, what are you talking about? Well, what convinced you to go from believing that Jesus is your eternal creator to him being your spirit brother?

What? I've never heard anything like that in my life. And so I gave her the manuscript copy of Letters to a Mormon Elder. The book wasn't even published yet. And two weeks later she left the LDS church because she went home.