January 2, 2020 Show with Mpumelelo Kunene on “The Progress, Opportunities & Challenges of the Reformed Faith in South Africa”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown,

Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

It's iron sharpens iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us.

Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours.

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host Chris

Arnzen.

Yes, we're going to be telling you about Johannesburg today.

And I'm looking forward to having a guest that I've never interviewed before on the program today.

His name is Impume Leilokunene, and I did not just receive the gift of charismatic

tongues so that is his name.

He is a native of Johannesburg South Africa and he is

a pastoral intern at Heritage Baptist Church of Johannesburg South Africa and.

Also.

He is a Reporting student

at the reform Baptist seminary in California or Correspondent student, I'm sorry

and that's in Sacramento, California, and he is pursuing an MDiv there and

Together with his wife Abigail they are training and trusting the Lord to be sent out of South Africa as

missionaries Into other parts of Africa.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Ion Sharpen's Ion radio and

Let me say it again, and hopefully get it right again.

Impume Leilokunene.

Thank you brother.

It's a privilege to be on the show and you're doing pretty well with that name actually.

Great praise God.

And Before we get into the topic at hand which is

Going to be specifically the progress opportunities and challenges of the reformed faith in South Africa.

If you could.

Please.

Tell us about Heritage Baptist Church of Johannesburg.

Yes, Heritage Baptist Church is a young church recently stopped being called a church plant.

We were planted in 2011.

Have two elders two Bivocational elders mostly full -time and in the past written day they labor

there.

Three deacons membership of about around 90 -97.

Growing church.

Young church love the Lord Jesus trying to navigate Honoring the Lord Jesus in

Johannesburg.

Multiculturally in a manner that pleases him following the scriptures.

It has for us and we desire prayer to grow more

in following the Lord and.

This is a.

Confessional reform Baptist Church.

This is a confessional reform Baptist Church.

We hold to the 1689.

Great, and if anybody wants more details on this congregation, we will hopefully remember to

repeat this later.

But the email I'm sorry the website I should say address is heritage

Baptist dot co dot za.

Heritage Baptist dot co dot Za.

And now.

What we get.

What we typically do an iron Sherpins iron radio when we have a first -time guest is.

We have them give a summary of their salvation testimony including

the the kind of Religious atmosphere you were born and raised in if any

and what providential circumstances the Lord raised up in your life that Drew you to

himself and saved you.

The Lord's grace in My life

in my grandmother really loved the

Lord

and

the God of

the people around

our grandmother

fought so much not

confession.

And so throughout the years, I just was with my grandmother.

But as

I grew up I kind of I went to

you University

already,

but the Lord.

Just in my first semester I met some men from a group called campus precipit in me and

so it worked out and I said

well let's for the

summer.

Well, let me just follow these Americans and see what they're talking about because they seem to like me and

I like me

to heart.

And really that when they asked questions at Bible studies that I didn't know the

answers because I'd grown up in a Christian Hall household, but I did not understand all the basic questions that

they're asking and on and to top that off.

My pride couldn't issue that this

I think he'll tell you a chapter and verse for everything that you ask him

His grace use that to

Matthew 7 21.

Just kept playing there not many you say those who do the will.

One day I came to a point where I realized that I actually have not said called him Lord in a real In the fullest sense of the

word.

I have not on my knees before him.

I've not received of his grace and I don't read and

so those one day particularly where I said, okay, Lord Jesus, whatever you want me to do.

I'll do it and.

And yeah, I know there was a Pentecostal church that a lot of my friends were going to so I went to that church.

During that time as well.

So the Lord saved that's how the Lord saved me.

Praise God now, how did you come to discover and embrace?

Reform theology specifically.

Me a number of my friends and this is a story that you hear a lot if you speak to South South Africans and out

there.

Say a lot of Southern Africans actually.

As I've been speaking to more brothers from Kenya and Zambia and so forth.

What you hear a lot and so what happened with me specifically was we were.

We were we were.

I had a group of friends and we were studying the word together.

We were really digging into the meaning of the word.

We were really enjoying and was really helping us.

With little tools to study God's Word.

So I understand okay the scripture understand look for a promise.

Look for a command when you're studying the word and so as I'm

seeing in the church that are happening and the things that I'm Seeing in the scriptures that are being said very

clearly.

That I've done differently when I ask the question the answers that I get just didn't seem to work.

It's better thinking.

Okay, something friend was a lot more conservative.

But he was a lot more conservative and so and so bonding with him together.

We started feeling Okay, we're gonna be attending

getting into the YouTube

video to that and listening to the men that were there.

I was sorry get introduced to Leonard Ravenhale.

AW told that we're like, okay.

So it is that it wasn't in

2011 when this friend of mine that I just mentioned somebody put a Paul Washer video

On his laptop.

He doesn't know and that's definitely gonna do some damage.

At the at the University dormitory.

We had a group of

four, but there's only two

of us and this that we don't know.

By the

way, brother, I don't know

if you could back away from any.

Mouthpiece you're using or speakerphone because there is some over modulation for some reason.

Especially when you speak loudly, I'm not telling you to change the way you're speaking.

But maybe just back away from the mouthpiece or the speaker that you're using.

No, it seems to be still over modulating a bit but what we'll have to do with what we have.

I'm forced to turn your volume down because of it and I'd prefer not to have to

do that.

But if that's what I have to do, that's what I have to do.

Hello.

Can you speak again?

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

That's yeah.

Yeah, it's still over modulating a bit.

I'm not sure why It's strange because when you first called in before the show it wasn't doing that but we'll have

we'll have to deal with it I guess um.

Well odd to brag a bit about iron sharpens fine radio since you've brought

up Paul Washer and some of my listeners already know this but I Have been waiting over a decade to

interview Paul Washer on this show.

He is one of the few people That I know of that.

I have been really eagerly and prayerfully designed to interview

For many years that I was not getting any success

Contacting him and so on and it just so happens in God's providence.

He was a speaker recently in New York City at a conference.

I attended the foundation's conference and I approached Paul Asked him

to have an on -site interview there and He

immediately said well brother, I'm sorry, but I need my pastor's permission To conduct any interviews.

So I said to him.

Well, it just so happens.

I know your pastor Anthony Mathenia.

Can I text him and if he approves, will you do it?

And he said sure.

So I texted Anthony Mathenia and he immediately responded and said that'd be a great idea.

So Paul conducted the interview Loved it.

I think much to his amazement because I don't think he was expecting to love it and He wrote me a glowing

Commendation for Iron Trutman's iron radio just recently.

It's not even on the website yet.

But it's going to be very soon God willing.

So I just thought I'd throw that in there and I will make sure I Send him a recording of this interview so that he

can Receive the blessing of knowing of how the Lord used him in your life.

And by the way, do you have you ever spoken with him?

Did you let him know about this?

No, I've never spoken to him, you know, I'm

the young men that I've been around in South Africa.

You know, Paul Washer has a halo on his head.

He has just a lot of

young men and a lot of young women's lives.

Well, I'll just meet him.

Very thankful for him.

Yes.

Praise God.

Well, I want to give our listeners our email address if they have any questions About

the Reformed Faith in Johannesburg.

On our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com ch r is a are n ze

n at gmail .com.

Please give us at least your first name your city and state of residence in your country of residence If you live outside the USA and

please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you Disagree with the Reformed Faith and you don't want to draw attention to your identity.

Or perhaps you Believe in the Reformed Faith, but the church where you are a member Rejects it

might even adamantly Oppose it as heresy or something.

Perhaps you're even a pastor and you are reformed and you are at odds with your own

congregation or denomination, whatever the case may be that would.

That would drive you to want to remain anonymous.

As long as it's a personal private matter, we will grant that request but otherwise, please give us your first name city and state and

country of residence if you live outside the USA and Tell us

about first of all, I know that the Heritage Baptist Church of Johannesburg,

South Africa is in a Fellowship of churches called Sola five.

Can you tell us about that?

Yeah, this is a A great group who loved

the Lord Jesus and that's obviously a nickname from the five souls of the Reformation.

Yep.

Yeah, the watchwords of the Reformation.

Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone

According to the scriptures alone by the glory of God alive.

Amen.

And so these are reformed people but a lot

of the churches are in the group are in South

Africa and they're there.

A lot of them are confessionally reformed.

Some of them and some of them are not but generally all

of them are Calvinistic and Want to do things in a manner that that honors the Lord.

So a lot of them are actually master seminary graduates.

Yes, and some of them are influenced by master seminary graduates.

And so you have that kind of mix of group that that's there and it's a it's a growing group.

It's a small group if you comparatively to how the size of South Africa and

the.

But it is a growing group.

And if you could Summarize for our audience because we have all kinds of listeners.

They're not only reformed even though that's Predominantly, I gather most of our listeners are

reformed judging from the emails I get.

But there are people who are new Christians.

There are people who are not reformed.

There are even people who are Muslim.

Or in religions outside of biblical Christianity like Roman Catholicism Eastern Orthodoxy.

There were even atheists who occasionally Contact me and there are Members

of cults and so on.

So why don't you give us a summary of what it means to be a confessional church because people might wrongly

Have their minds immediately Believe that we are talking about the Roman

Catholic sacrament of penance and confession, which is an unbiblical and heretical

Right of the Roman Catholic Church.

So obviously that is not what we're talking.

Not sure the all the technical Definitions that one would say but I'll I'll just say that it's

holding to a confession Confession that usually

predates you form Baptist

Church London Baptist Confession.

There was a pen in Britain

in London

in

civil tea.

That seems maybe another one

another one

of

those

confessions, but they are.

There are terms

of the

doctrine great and.

What would be in your understanding or according to what you know?

What would be the percentage of Christians in South Africa or even if you want to even go broader

on the African continent if you know that.

Who are reformed believing Christians,

you know.

Like you said from what I know because Work, and so I'm

not aware of everything African in

Southern Africa.

Definitely not.

Not not so much in Southern Africa but in South Africa specifically.

You generally have you have a number in traditionally

reformed So you

and that

members that they have 0 .02 percent of the whole

population of South Africa.

Now that's the member that they have I suppose that's the numbers that that that is

Publicly available on their websites and things like that.

These would be Anglicans that still.

Adhere to the 39 articles of religion, which is their confession of faith, which is a very

biblically sound confession, I believe I agree with these reformed Anglicans and the majority of

the 39 articles and as I like to Rib or make fun of my

reformed Anglican friends I even agree with the wording in the 39

articles on baptism because it says That you should not forbid Children

from being baptized and as a reformed Baptist, I don't forbid children as long as they believe and repent.

That's fine.

It can be better because it doesn't say infants in the wording, but even though I know that that's the way they understood

it.

Yeah, there is no mention of the infants in their Baptismal statement in the 39 articles.

Yeah, I

have

quite a number of friends here in the states that are reformed Anglicans and.

They're not all in lockstep with each other.

But, you know sometimes they have inside or in -house disputes just like reformed Baptist do.

But they have usually in -house disputes over different things such as what traditions of

Roman Catholicism do they believe are permitted and and the

The worship and the practice of the church there.

Like for instance, they might disagree at least over here I don't know about the case in Africa.

But over here they would disagree over the practice of Ash Wednesday, for instance and

things like that.

But they are still nonetheless a very solid group of folks and they have

a lot of Prayer needed for their.

The battles they face not only against the leftist apostates on one end, but even on the Romish

Oxford movement Anglicans and Episcopalians on the other end.

Are they a big group over here?

No, no, they're they're a small group but I just happen to know a number of them because I because of the fact that I work in

a Christian radio and happen to be reformed and have gotten to know Probably nearly every

single one the leadership in the United States, but but yeah, it's a very small percentage

wise yeah.

Well, yeah, there were constitute in 1938

on the Liberal branch of Church of England and they have

a college George Whitfield College in Cape Town and that is a

really good friend that have gone there some who are going there and.

They've

all

shop and

these are

wonderful people.

So let's.

Step back a bit and get a broader scope of the religious atmosphere.

And let's stick with South Africa.

What would be the largest religious group and then break down according to your knowledge from there

to the smaller groups?

And the name of the group again was the Christian Zion movement

Christian

Church that Zion

Christian

Church of the whole population of

South Africa.

I read this in

fact.

I want you to continue in your description of this group when we return from our first break because it is the

The largest professing Christian group That you mentioned so I think that we should know more about

it.

So let's Pick up where we left off there.

We're going through our first break now.

If anybody again wants to join us with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

And as always, please give us your first name your city and state in your country your residence if you live outside the USA.

And only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

We'll be right back with the progress opportunities and challenges of the reform faith in South Africa.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours is.

And I'm gonna try to pronounce it correctly again and Pumae Lailo kunane and that I get it right again.

Yeah, you got it right again, brother.

And hey, by the way, you can just call me little also that that usually works for me.

Okay, Lailo, that's a lot easier and We are discussing the progress opportunities and challenges of the

reformed faith in South Africa if you have a question.

For Lailo, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

And as always give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and

private matter.

And We were speaking right before the break about the Zion Christian

Church, which is a cult.

And I believe you said in South Africa or at least in Johannesburg 30

of the population there is a member of this cult.

If you could correct me if I'm wrong there.

It's it's the whole country.

So that's about 17 million people in the whole country hold to

follow this and.

So.

We were saying that if you could explain exactly what synchristic means and of course when

you said it was a traditional Church or religion people may have the wrong

idea who use that term very differently in the United States and other parts of The

Western world in the UK and so on.

They might think that that's a good thing that it.

Yeah, it brings back thoughts of traditional Christianity things.

Yeah, according to the way things have been done and believed for centuries and so on.

Well, I must say I appreciate

Sophia.

But let

me talk about the southern African psyche is our

love that honors are and

before us and a

lot of that is good.

But a part of

that idea

that there is a creator one God

who have died

those who

are

family members.

We

kind

of I

work whatever goes on.

For me

to fake

my view

Biblically

when

I

say

from

God,

but

really

in to

be

dressed a

certain

way.

There's a certain our uniform that you have to wear.

Wow.

You know how old you are and what gender you are you mean in the entirety of your life or just when you attend worship?

Services.

When you attend the worst

you are.

You have to wear a badge.

You know them by their badge and

their hat all the time all

over thing now as

you said that they

had a unique way.

Or a specific way that you needed to be baptized.

I'm assuming you mean for salvation.

I don't know that but what do you mean by that?

Yeah.

Hey, there

was a take over the

leadership

and

become

the prophet

of a grandson.

Follow up that

prophet says and

I'll copy

you

now.

Do they.

In other ways, which sometimes makes a cult more dangerous.

Do they have actually biblical beliefs in other areas like do they believe in a.

Biblical and.

Historically accurate understanding of the Trinity.

Do they believe in the deity of Christ the virgin birth of Christ the sinless life of Christ?

The.

Bodily resurrection of Christ.

And you know many of the other pillars of the faith that they've contaminated with these other heresies.

Yes, a lot of them.

They believe in I do not know them to have a sound

do not know them To fully properly

understand what the meaning of the death of the Lord Jesus Christ.

But they do Proclaim salvation in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy

Spirit.

That's why they deep you three times in the water.

So they and then they they do have they do have that understanding.

But again, it's not wholesome and they do have the understanding of confession repentance

so you you you you have to repent from your sins have to repent from your old way and They do

preach from the Bible.

So they do have you so

they do have

it.

So they do have

profits and

What essentially what the ancestors want done that also

is a lot of those things in in form?

But when you dig in it's not airtight and I understand from your presentation.

That's Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania last night that there is a split

Amongst this group because you have two siblings that are claiming to be Heirs

of the throne for lack of a better term in this cult.

Correct, and and a lot of that is shrouded in mystery.

So I can't tell you much because you

essentially comes to their

biggest gathering which is really the highlight of their calendar year and

It's

the

largest

other

there

now.

Obviously.

You and the theologically sound Christians not only reformed but those that

are Bible -believing Christians even amongst our minions and others are in a

basically a Tug of war for the souls of the community there.

And so what do you know of about their?

Tragic success in luring people out of sound churches into the cult and also.

How much true?

God -given success.

Can you mention about people being drawn out of that cult into genuine repentance and faith?

Exciting note the second one.

In fact, I in fact, I just looked at the clock and we have to get our midway break.

So if you could pick up with your response when we return from our break.

If anybody wants to join us for the question.

We do have several people waiting in line and we will get to you as soon as possible.

But if anybody else wants to join us with a question of your own for Lalo.

About the reform faith in South Africa.

Our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com chris a are n ze

and a gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous.

If your question involves a personal and private matter, don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and my friend Chris Arnzen.

And I are excited to be attending another g3 conference together in Atlanta, Georgia Thursday January

16th through Saturday January 18th on a theme that is vitally important to all of us worship

matters.

I'll be on the speaking lineup with Eric Thomas Joel Beeky Paul Washer Steve Lawson Phil Johnson

Tom Askew Votie Balcombe and the world -renowned preacher teacher and author John MacArthur.

A Fascinating new addition to the roster is Kosti Hinn nephew of the notorious false

teacher Benny Hinn.

Kosti has repented of the word -faith heresies of his youth and is now a reformed Baptist pastor and

cessationist in, California.

Come join me and Chris Arnzen at g3 2020 January 16th through the 18th in Atlanta.

By registering at g3 conference comm that's g3 conference .com.

See you there as.

Host of iron sharpens iron radio.

I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in

Flemington, New Jersey pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he

shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

God in spirit and truth.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a God -centered focus.

Reading preaching and hearing the Word of God singing psalms hymns and spiritual songs.

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Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on iron sharpens iron radio.

Hi, this is John Sampson pastor of Kings Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the iron sharpens iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key

doctrines of the Christian faith.

I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing one of the very few safe places on the internet.

Where folk won't be led astray?

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

And knowing this it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer

and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting iron

sharpens iron.

Financially, would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly

partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would.

All the details can be found at iron sharpens iron Radio .com where you can click support.

That's iron sharpens iron radio .com.

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James White of Alpha Omega ministries and the dividing line webcast here.

Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach preach and debate at numerous venues Some of my

very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope

Reform Baptist Church now located at their new beautiful facilities in Coram, Long Island, New York.

I've had the privilege of opening God's Word from their pulpit on many occasions.

Have led youth retreats for them and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my New York debates.

I hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island to anyone who wants to be

accurately taught Discipled and edified by the Holy Scriptures and to be surrounded by truly loving

and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.

I also want to congratulate Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram for the recent appointment of pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder

Pastor Christopher McDowell.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church. Go to Hope Reform Li .net.

That's Hope Reform Li .net or call 631 696 5

7 1 1 that's 6 3 1 6 9 6 5 7 1 1.

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island that you heard about them from James White on iron

sharpens iron radio.

Chris Sorenson host of iron sharpens iron radio here.

I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.

His name is Dan, but a few go.

Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself.

Recently, he wrote a book titled consider the evidence for the Bible.

Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword.

Dan also has a master's degree in theology.

Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country.

Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy.

And currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for 1 million dollars or more.

And in approximately 10 different states.

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history in New York.

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Consultations are free.

There is no fee unless you win Dan, but a few

goes number is 1 -800 -669 -487 -81 -800 -669 -487 -8.

Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

One sure way all Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my

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This is pastor bill sasso grace church at franklin here in the beautiful state of tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support iron

sharpens iron radio financially.

Grace church at franklin is an independent Autonomous body of believers which strives

to clearly declare the whole council of god as revealed in scripture Through the person and work

of our lord jesus christ.

And of course the end of which we strive Is the glory of god?

If you live near franklin tennessee and franklin is just south of nashville, maybe 10 minutes.

Or you are visiting this area or you have friends and loved ones nearby.

We hope you will join us some lord's day in worshiping our god and savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about grace church at franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org.

That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is pastor bill sasser wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

lord god Savior and king jesus christ today and

always.

When iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 The publishers of the new american

standard bible were among my very first sponsors.

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Welcome back and we're going to be hearing more about joe hannesburg.

But I have a few important announcements to make before we return to our guest uh,

lalo who is going to be describing in more detail the Success in a biblical

sense in a salvific sense that the lord has granted true brothers and sisters in

christ In regard to evangelism and specifically evangelizing those involved in cults and

false religions In south africa, but before we return to that discussion, I

just want to remind you that a week from today Thursday january 9th from 11 a

.m. To 2 p .m. I will be having the iron sharpens iron radio

pastor's luncheon again.

This is a biannual event in carlisle, pennsylvania.

And the last several of them have been held at the carlisle fire and rescue banquet hall here in

carlisle, pennsylvania and it is a really phenomenal facility very

spacious and We thank the folks there at the carlisle fire and rescue banquet hall for making

it very affordable for us to rent the facility.

Our speaker our guest speaker is justin peters Who is an evangelist with cerebral

palsy.

He is an advocate for the disabled and one of his key missions in life is to expose

the deceptive dangerous and damning deceivers in the

word of faith movement, which is a branch of pentecostalism that is extremely

and severely heretical uh, and basically teaching that people can speak things

into existence whether good or bad whether.

Uh.

That if no matter what kind of sickness or illness that you have if you have a strong enough

faith You will with certainty be healed.

Therefore many people don't even seek medical medical attention and and die as a result of this wickedness.

So that is one of the key things that he speaks about and travels the world to expose.

And.

He is going to be speaking on the theme protecting the flock from wolves.

Uh, not only will you get a free lunch and hear justin peters for free.

Uh, if you are a man in ministry leadership, that is but you also get free new books

donated by many major christian publishers in the united states in the united

kingdom and uh, these are titles that I specifically selected from each of

the publishers and they have donated 100 copies Of these titles so that every man in attendance can go

home the heavy sack filled with these books.

So if you if you want to be there and take advantage of all these free things.

Uh, you can get or all the details that you need at iron sharpens iron radio .com.

There is a banner ad For the pastor's luncheon right there at the very top.

Uh, also, you could just send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com to register.

Chrisarnsen at gmail .com as I said, this is for men in ministry leadership only.

Uh pastors elders and I think that's the same office by the way deacons parachurch ministry

leaders.

And uh other men that would be considered leaders.

So, uh, we hope that you can attend and please get me.

Uh your registration your free registration no later than the 7th of january.

And as I said, the event is january 9th thursday, january 9th 11 a .m To 2 p .m at the carlisle fire and rescue banquet hall

in carlisle, pennsylvania.

We have people coming as far away as north carolina To this event not to mention maryland

and virginia and uh Other places surrounding pennsylvania, obviously most of the

men will be from pennsylvania.

But we look forward to seeing all of you and also uh an event that's taking place later this month

uh, it is a phenomenal event that I have attended already for three years in a row and i'm

Now going to be at my fourth G3 conference manning an exhibitor's booth for iron trumpets

iron radio.

The g3 conference which stands for gospel grace and glory Is being held at the georgia

international convention center in college park, georgia, which is a suburb of atlanta.

The theme is worship matters.

And they as always have an absolutely mind -blowing roster of speakers.

Uh to address this topic and different elements of this topic under the umbrella of worship.

Matters.

Uh, we have on the roster.

Dr Stephen j lawson of one passion ministries who I just had the privilege to interview once again in new york city when I

was at A different conference recently conducted an on -site interview with him again.

Uh, we have.

Uh, anthony methenia who is the pastor of paul washer?

That we heard our Guest lalo raving about beforehand and talking about what a

powerful impact paul washer has had.

On.

Not only his life, but in the life of many in South africa regard to the reform faith.

Paul washer himself Confirmed with me during my interview with him in new york city that he

Intends to be there and of course he has a very delicate health situation.

So sometimes he does have to cancel speaking engagements because of that very serious health problems involving his heart.

But we trust he will be there since he feels confident.

He will be there my friend Dr. James r white of alpha and omega ministries who has actually spoken

at heritage baptist church of johannesburg south africa twice.

And he was delighted that my guest lalo was being interviewed today and He is an old friend of mine going back

to 1995.

And I have orchestrated over 20 public moderated debates with my dear friend.

Dr. James r white an extraordinary brilliant brother in christ.

Will be there.

Phil johnson the executive director of grace to you, which is the media ministry of john mccarthur.

He has been interviewed on ironship design radio more than any other guest on this program.

Since we launched originally in 2005.

Todd freel of wretched tv and radio.

Derek thomas the world -renowned presbyterian author a teacher preacher

pastor and conference speaker.

My friend, dr. Tom askel god willing will be there if his Health continues to improve.

He also had a recent scare where he collapsed from behind the pulpit and was unconscious.

Apparently he is recovering well and expects to be there and tends to be there unless god has other

plans.

But dr. Tom askel of the executive director of founders ministries, which is the calvinistic ministry in the southern baptist convention.

Steven, jay nichols the president of the reformation bible college the college founded by the late r .c. Sproul

and legionnaire ministries.

Kosti hinn.

Who is the nephew of the notorious heretic in charlottetown?

Benny hinn?

Kosti hinn has renounced and repented of the word of faith movement that he was raised in.

He is now a reformed baptist pastor.

And he is a cessationist as well.

And.

The latest update is he has Accepted the call

To a church in arizona.

You heard.

Dr. James r white earlier Mentioned that kosti is pastoring in california, but now he is pastoring in

arizona.

And.

We are delighted that he is going to be there and of course.

The huge news is that john macarthur himself was added to the lineup.

I would go there to the g3 conference, even if it was just john macarthur.

So that's thursday january 16th through saturday january 18th coming up very soon in

Atlanta georgia or more specifically college park at the georgia international convention center.

If you want to attend Please go to g3 conference .com g3 conference .com as soon as you

can and register.

And from my interview last friday with josh bice or actually I think it was.

What date was it?

It was actually monday.

I'm, sorry my interview on monday with josh bice.

He.

Informed me that there's only like one or two spaces left for Exhibitors booths like the

one I will be manning.

So if you would like to man an exhibitor's booth for your church your power church ministry your business.

Do so quickly Before they completely run it out of run out of room.

So to register for attendance or for an exhibitor's booth Go to g3 conference .com.

G3 conference .com.

Last but not least if you love this show and you don't want us to disappear Please I beg

of you Uh to go to g3 conference, i'm, sorry.

Go to iron sharpens iron radio .com click support then click click to donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.

Uh, or if you want to mail in a check the old -fashioned way via snail mail an address does appear on the screen when you click.

Support.

At iron sharpens iron radio .com Where you can mail a check made out to iron sharpens iron radio .com.

And we are in urgent need of your finances.

Uh, we have bills that we still have not paid for december and it's already in january.

We have not paid our rent.

We have not paid our electric bill.

We have not paid our internet bill, which we require for our live streaming of this program.

I don't even have the money yet to travel to georgia.

To the g3 conference to man my exhibitor's booth.

Although all my expenses Are covered by the g3 conference For my

registration and for my.

Hotel.

Everything else in regarding travel and meals.

I don't have any of that.

So, please if you really love this show if you really, uh want us to stick around go to g3 conference .com.

And click support then click.

I did I say g3 conference again at iron sharpens iron radio .com Click support then click

click to donate now.

Iron sharpens iron radio .com click support then click click to donate now.

Remember folks never siphon money away from your regular giving to your local church.

In order to give to iron trip and zion radio never do that.

Never put your family in financial jeopardy if you are having huge problems making ends meet.

Uh, so never.

If you're in that position never give to iron trip and zion radio and leave bills unpaid in your own household.

But if you are blessed Above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands providing for church and providing for family.

You have extra money collecting interest to use for recreational purposes and entertainment.

Please use some of that money To help us remain on the air if indeed you love the show.

Please help us.

I can't even express in more urgent terms how much we need your donations.

I hate making these requests, but if you want us to stick around I need to make them.

We had over 41 000 people download this program in October alone and yet we still have only

a tiny Handful of very generous and very loyal and very faithful people donating to us.

It's kind of a mystery to me.

I don't understand it.

But if you are among those people that love this show and you've never given before Please consider donating

as much as you can and as frequently as you can.

That's iron sharpens iron radio .com click support then click click to donate now.

If you are not a member of a local bible believing church, and you're not even prayerfully looking for one.

You're living in rebellion against god.

I can help you find a church.

God willing.

I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world including In johannesburg south

africa for the church where our guest is a member heritage baptist church.

So if you need help finding a church send me an email to chris arnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the

subject line.

I've helped many people find churches all over the world uh where they have either visited and

joined or where they.

Where they have visited when they were on vacation or where they have recommended their family friends and loved ones.

In those areas that do not have a church of their own.

So send me an email to chris arnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address to send in a question to lay low.

Regarding our discussion on the reformed faith in south africa.

That's chris arnson at gmail .com.

Chris arnson at gmail .com.

Lay low if you could pick up where you left off.

You were very excited about a question.

I asked about the god -given success.

That you have witnessed.

Uh.

And perhaps even been involved in yourself by the grace of god in winning souls.

Out of the.

Major cult.

The zion christian church and other false religions in south africa.

A number of stories.

But one that that really has been exciting to us is my wife has been involved over this past

year.

Most of 2019 she's been walking with a.

Young woman was actually considered a prophetess in that movement.

And she has completely come to renounce it.

She Loves the word she's learned.

It's been a long walk.

My wife has had to really pray and really work with her.

And discussing just just what how do you even study god's word accurately

teaching her that and I?

Happen to run.

We run a bible study on the university campus where she was a student.

And I was in.

I was a apostle of luke.

Not not for too long of a time.

But just seeing the fruit in her life.

And she was attending heritage baptist while she was in johannesburg at the at the university.

The lord she's really a trophy of grace.

She just got married to a man that's actually at One of the churches that are

sponsoring in the townships in south africa.

Praise god.

So it that that young lady just warms my heart.

The lord has really worked in her heart and uh, And the lord is really pleased to do that.

And there's a lot more that's happening that I might not be aware of but that one.

That one story is very dear to our heart at this moment.

But tell us about uh, some of the other uh religious groups that are rivals of

biblical christianity that you face there in south africa.

Yeah, so so we have the zion christian church and then we have so within what is called the

Evangelicalism in south africa.

So if you look at the stats, this is what is called evangelicalism.

Uh, but you'll see that a lot of it actually as I define it.

It's not so one of it is of any

of these articles.

You see you'll see that he's passionate about this particular subject because

particularly in a pandemic.

In southern africa where there are these prophets are pentecostal.

They use the bible.

They have everything to do

one another

in doing.

Uh using and doing things that are miraculous as it were to try and solve people's problems.

American like nebuchadnezzar.

Why would why would they think that's a good thing?

Well, because of what I was talking about is because

that I have and

they

were

making people

that

church

service

and others have.

No, well, I don't know if you're I don't know if you're from africa and particularly in south africa.

I don't know if you're familiar, uh with the snake handlers here in the united states in the rural

areas of the south and apalachia.

But there are pentecostal churches that still exist believe it or not that uh

because of a Misapplication of that very famous biblical text they handle poisonous snakes

and they also.

That is that mark 16.

Uh, yes, and they they uh.

Also drink poison to my knowledge.

They don't eat the snakes.

Uh.

But uh, I mean, there's nothing wrong with eating a snake if it's dead and cooked, of course.

But not according not not a part of a religious ritual.

Um.

And so this is like even more bizarre than what we have here locally.

Well, not not that locally to me, but it's.

Uh, as I said in the rural areas of the south predominantly.

Yes, and so we we have this problem.

It's it's it's a real one and conrad and bear you can just read.

He's really lamenting this.

This this ideology and he has really an article that really explains the thinking if anybody's interested.

And go to conrad and bear's blog.

But in any event, so we we are dealing with that and christian especially

evangelicals because they know these people aren't catholics.

They know these people aren't any other kind of old style conservative group.

They just see these people as being.

Uh.

Evangelicals and so we're after them and we're seen as fools out by our

colleagues at work.

And as we just live along we're seen as these people who cause these problems and the government is actually.

Now the evangelical church is seen as a threat to the livelihood of the people whereas in the past

that was never the case but now uh these Prophets so now there's going to be some kind of

control.

They're thinking about putting on some kind of control by the government because

it's not really good for the people.

And so you have a lot of people that are stuck in those things because

sometimes it's

gullibility

perhaps a lot of it is.

What paul says to timothy that

they will see a lot

of coming out of these?

Still kind of environment kind of thing just like a

similar story to mine.

They'll land on the internet see john piper.

John macarthur will see something

and the lord uses that and then they start seeing wait, there's a Christianity is

more a dying faith sins will be

forgiven.

And actually it makes sense.

It actually put my trust in

so the lord has been using the internet.

Um, and as the internet prices become cheaper and more accessible to more and more people.

That and then they flood into

the city

by these

prophets

and

i'm

using

that to bring

us.

Yes,

you

mentioned.

Earlier a dear friend of mine that i've known since 1995 Dr. Conrad Mbewe

of kabwatha baptist church in lusaka zambia.

And also the chancellor of african christian University and I believe he may have just

changed posts there uh, but uh he has warned

many times of The heresies and dangers

of the charismatic movement in zambia.

Uh and that it is it makes.

The charismatics that are here in the united states appear extremely biblical and

sound in comparison.

Uh because as you were mentioning before he was saying that very often the uh

pastors have really just.

Uh.

Adopted the title pastor and they are in essence witch doctors and um

He has even said that there have been some pastors that Have sexually shared their own wives

with men in the congregation uh to receive some kind of blessing for god from

god and also of course that they have Had rampant adulterous relations

with women in the church themselves.

About a really nightmarish situation, and by the way If anybody listening ever hears about conrad mbewe

preaching at a church or a conference near them They have got to hear this man.

He is actually my very favorite preacher on the planet earth.

He is he's a gifted man was one who's actually

on trial in south africa right now for having a harem of

young girls.

Um, it is absolutely atrocious the kinds of sins that these men are caught in.

And because they use the name of christ and by all definition They they are called christians.

We all get lumped together.

It is There

there's no you run out of you know.

Do one another and showing honor and serving one another.

Well, they are do one another they're in a competition with one another.

Yes, it's uh, it is a shame.

So i'm assuming then from what you said.

Uh, thanks be to god the government in south africa does not sit back and

allow these kinds of harems to exist.

And I Also assume you meant with underage girls.

Is that what you were referring to that?

This is not legally permissible uh in south africa or at least.

In the areas that you're familiar with.

Oh, absolutely.

No, no, so that's to

do things like that.

You can't have you can't be a pastor

that you do those.

It's not allowed.

And so this man that I was referring to ministry that's in

south africa.

That man is currently is currently under trial.

Wow, well, let me get to a few of the listener questions.

The listeners that have been waiting patiently.

At least I hope they've been waiting patiently.

Uh, we have Harrison in mechanicsburg, pennsylvania who asks.

I have heard from some missionaries overseas that cave in

to pressure When they are surrounded by sheer paganism to have

ecumenical relationships with churches and missionaries That profess to be christian,

but who deny the gospel including roman catholics eastern orthodox and other.

Denominations that would not be in the pale of bible believing christianity.

Can you give us a little bit of a summary on how?

Your church heritage baptist church in johannesburg has reacted to that kind of pressure.

We love the gospel.

We love the lord jesus and we are committed to his anybody who

Shares that love and that commitment to god's word being the final authority of life and practice.

We generally we we love and we work with those people.

We the

paradoxical and I mean people who are

not not be christian that we will never work with we will never work.

For example with someone like the ones that we've just mentioned now who?

This is unbiblical when they do those kinds of things that we were speaking about just now.

We would never work with

those people

brothers who have a zealousness.

About

piety

students

on the

university

a lot

of

students

are denied.

And of course.

But I

don't know if that

answers the question but

obviously.

When it comes to roman catholic missionaries, though, if they are faithful to the council of

trent They would be denying the biblical gospel.

Absolutely.

And so we we will never we will never do anything together with the roman catholic.

We do not consider them to be to be

fall to now.

What would you out of curiosity?

Work with Those that are outside of the realm of biblical

christianity on providing aid physically to the community around

you.

Uh food and clothing and other things, I know that that can be On one hand a wonderful

thing and on the other hand It could be a dangerous thing because you are being aligned in the minds of people with their false gospel.

So i'm just curious if on the physical nature how you.

Know.

So I think I understand the question what we are.

Being in johannesburg.

We're generally we

have had we have not

really we we know

we we

there

are

Africa

who

as it were

but I

want to

serve

in that that

is in

a okay.

We have cj in lindenhurst long island new york.

Who wants to know how great of a threat is islam in south africa.

Uh.

Here's

the

thing

when people black south africans when they

Take

religion or

whatever

to go

where

they

all

right.

I'm going to read a question for you and have you answer it when we return from our final break.

By the way, folks, the next break is going to be much shorter than the previous one.

I forgot to warn my guest lalo that our midway break is a is a long one because grace life radio

91 point fm 90 .1 fm in lake city florida requires of us a

longer break in our middle Uh break because they air their own public service announcements

during that break to localize our show to lake city, florida.

I forgot to warn you about that because it was quite a Quite a long break, but this next break is going to be

short.

And uh, so we'll have you answer the question when we return.

Uh, john and bangor main asks.

I have heard stories of black south africans taking vengeance upon

white south africans Farmers and others where their property has been stolen where they have

been murdered by these black South africans taking vengeance vengeance.

How prominent is this?

And is this something that is?

Seen as a growing Horrific problem or something that is dying down.

We'll have you answer that when we return and again.

This is our final break in the show so we look forward to uh hearing from you with your questions

before we run out of time at chris arms and at gmail .com chris arms and at gmail .com if You want to get behind?

John and bagger main online with your question.

We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to our discussion on johannesburg south africa.

Specifically the reform faith in in south africa.

And if you have a question send it in quickly because we're rapidly running out of time.

Our email address Is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

And we look forward to hearing from you if you send the question in in enough time and we before the break

as you may remember.

Lalo.

Uh, john and bang remain was asking about the stories the nightmarish stories he's been hearing

about regarding white farmers and perhaps other citizens who are being murdered by

vengeful black citizens of south africa and even having their property taken over and so

on.

If you could Separate truth from error in this area.

Yeah, this is a let's try and be very succinct here.

This is a very touchy subject because In south africa right now 10

years.

Everything has just been so racial.

There's been such a huge racial divide and so racially charged.

And so numbers and

statistics about certain

things in particular

are murdered every single

day so that even filters down to the

farms as well and Farms have two things really, uh, there's two things that's common about most farms.

One is that they're usually Generally owned by white farmers.

There's white people who own the farms and there's black laborers.

The farms are isolated.

So if you're a criminal you're going

to let die in these farm

attacks of people.

It's not necessarily a racial thing in some cases you get that

send there where those people are angry.

But

that

is to show

when

you have a

model the

church

has

that

opportunity and a

lot of our reformed

churches and in fact your marriage is an

example of.

A ministry to those around you demonstrating uh how the blood of jesus

christ Tears down all Barriers that would include ethnicity and skin

color.

Uh, and your wife it happens to be a white american uh young lady and uh,

and a former member of grace reform baptist church in chambersburg.

Pennsylvania, correct.

Yep.

Yep.

Where the lord has blessed us with even a one son who's neither of our two.

Is it grace reform baptist church or just grace baptist church in chambersburg?

Baptist church in chambers.

Church in chambersburg with the pastor craig harris.

Right, right.

That's which is a church plant of the church where i'm a member and i'm sorry folks that I even though i've known of your

existence for Quite a while. I sometimes forget the full name of the church.

Uh, I would like you now.

To summarize what you most want etched on the hearts and minds of our listeners Regarding south africa and regarding the

reform faith there before we run out of time.

If you could pray just pray that the lord would continue the work that he's doing in

Getting people out of these cultish.

And now these profit rich areas and and that you'd you'd give the church

in south africa real unity.

Even in light of these racial divisions, which is a big part of what's going on.

We we trust the lord even in that we are trusted.

We're trusting that the lord has not forgotten us and willing

to love the

lord.

A culture.

And don't forget the website for heritage baptist church in johannesburg South africa is heritage baptist

dot co dot z a Heritage baptist dot co dot z a.

And folks.

Please don't remember about the iron sharpens iron radio pastor's luncheon next thursday, january 9th.

If you want to attend if you're a man in ministry leadership, it's free of charge.

Register as quickly as possible.

At.

Iron sharpens iron radio .com.

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Chris arnson at gmail .com.

I thank you so much.

Lalo for being my guest today.

I look forward to your frequent return in the future to iron trip and zion radio as my guest.

I want to thank everybody who listened especially took those who took the time to write.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that jesus christ is a far greater savior.

Than you are a sinner.

Thank you, brother.

You too, brother.