Preterist DEBATE! Dr. Sam Frost vs Stacy Turbeville

Hello and welcome. I think we finally got this figured out. Very sorry, we've been having some technical difficulties, but I think we are good. Thank you for tuning in to The Apologetic Dog, where it's our heart's desire to guard the gospel of grace, and we do this by avoiding pagan philosophies.

We do this by looking at any professed knowledge that tries to rival against the knowledge of God, and we show that it's actually internally contradictory. And so that's our heart's desire here at The Apologetic Dog.

I also want to inform you that I serve as a pastor and elder at 12 .5 Church here in Northeast Arkansas, more specifically Jonesboro, Arkansas. So if you're in the area, please come visit us. We'd love to meet you and to show you what everything is like here in our neck of the woods.

I'd also like to encourage you to go check out our church website at 12 .5church .com. That's the word 12, the number 5, church .com. And so today, it's a very interesting episode that we have. A lot of times we are exploring Reformed Theology, we are looking at apologetics, and we're doing all that kind of wrapped into one, but we are having our first live debate.

And so I actually want to introduce to you a co-moderator, Trey Fisher. Can you hear me out there? Hello. I got you. Man, we are running behind schedule, but it's all good, Trey.

It's all good. Hey, God Sovereign. What about it? What about it? God Sovereign. This is all part of your sanctification process, and we're good to go. Yes. Well,.

We have some up-and-coming announcements. I was hoping that you could help me fill everybody in about. And so in a couple weeks, we're gonna be going to Arizona.

What's going down there? In Arizona, ReformedCon. Obviously get to listen to a lot of great speakers about the gospel in our context, where we live, in our culture, in our society, and advancing that.

But we're really excited about doing some podcasts there at ReformedCon with some people, and really excited about doing Cultish again. It's gonna be examining the Church of Christ, answering questions of the first one that I was able to do on Cultish about the Church of Christ, answering pros and cons.

But I have my friend with me this time, Jeremiah Nortier. Yes. He'll be sitting there with me, and we'll be answering some objections, and talking about it, and talking about all the good that's come out of that podcast, from preachers in the Church of Christ to just people in the Church of Christ.

All the emails, the messages, everything. So we can talk about all the good that's come from it that people might not know.

About. Yes. Well hey, when we get to meet... And thy kingdom come. Yeah, that's true. When we meet with Jeff Durbin, we have a surprise for him from our sponsor, Bearded Brothers. Trey, you need to get some of this, man.

This is Lemonwood beard oil, but you got to grow out your beard a little bit more. I knew that was coming. I got a baby beard. That's okay. Well, I'm really excited. We have.

Some interlocutors on the channel. What's that? Is that a heresy? Let me show.

You what some interlocutors look like. We have with us Dr. Sam Frost and Stacey Turbyville. Mr. Stacey, did I get your last name right? That's right. Yes. I've been practicing that. Well, we're so glad to have you on the channel.

If you would, Mr. Stacey, please tell us a little bit more about you. I've seen some of your debates in the past. Maybe you can direct people to where they can find more of your.

Content. Yeah, you can just pull me up on Facebook or just type my name in YouTube and you can see all my debates. I've grew up Baptist my whole life. Close to 25 years ago, I started studying eschatology.

Over the years, as I study and learn, compare things to the Word of God, of course, I've made lots of changes. So.

We're here tonight discussing one of the big changes. That would be a big change. Now, speaking of changes, Dr. Frost, you've had some changes in your life as well. You've kind of been in Mr. Stacey's neck of the woods and now you're somewhere else.

If you would, tell us a little bit about your journey talking.

About eschatology and things like that. Well, most probably watching this know the story. I now grew up in church, Foursquare Gospel Church, dispensationalist. Fifty five years ago, went to Bible college, was exposed to theology and church history and all of that.

And so went down the Canterbury Trail into the Episcopal and Episcopal reformed and reformed and Presbyterian and millennial, post-millennial, went through all of those forms of eschatology for the pertinent topic at hand.

Got into preterism and then went into full preterism. Was one of the main leaders there after I was talking with Max King and Tim King for a while and they published a book of mine. And the next thing I know, I'm speaking at all of these conferences, about 20 some conferences over the next several years from 2003 to 2009.

So being invited to speak, you know, everywhere. So published a few books. Don Preston publishes one exegetical essays on the resurrection of the dead. I wrote a chapter for House Divided with Mike Sullivan and David Green.

Misplaced Hope was the book that was published first. The first book published 2002 by Millennial Press. That was Max King and Tim King's outfit. They're out in Colorado Springs now. And around 2009, as always, continuing to study, continuing to stay in seminary and earn, you know, various degrees and this, that, and the other.

Began to see the holes in what I call hyper-preterism or full preterism. This was a book I sold my.

Business for. I have a question for you. Where is a website that people can find.

Your material? Well, on Facebook you can find me there. Samuel Frost, Sam Frost. And then vigil .blog, V-I-G-I-L .blog. Awesome. Well, I want to encourage people to go.

Look up these two men. Thank you so much, Mr. Stacy, for joining us. We reached out to Michael Sullivan, and we said, hey, let's get a debate set up with you and Dr. Frost, and he wasn't having none of it.

So we just want to thank you so much because hopefully you can bring clarity from the full preterist perspective of how to look at a lot of these verses, and hopefully this will be very beneficial people.

So thank you so much for coming on. I just have one last thing to say. I am looking forward to this, and we are going to start off with you, Mr. Stacy, you're going to have 15 minutes for your opening statement, and when there's one minute left, you're going to hear this sound, and that is just letting you know you have one more minute.

And so the debate proposition, just so everybody knows, hopefully I do at this point, but we're talking about did the second coming of Jesus Christ already happen at 70 AD? Stacy is saying yes, they did.

He's taking the affirmative, and Dr. Frost is taking the negative. So Mr. Stacy, whenever you begin speaking, I will start your timer. Can I ask one thing? When we.

Speak, like when I speak, is Stacy off-camera, and when he speaks, am I.

Off-camera? Or are we going to be? Oh no, everybody can see you chilling there in the corner. Stacy has a little bit of an audience, so it's to spice things up a bit. Okay, Mr. Stacy, it's all you. All right, I'm gonna make this statement to.

Start off with. I'm gonna go over four reasons why I think preterism is the true teaching of Scripture. And to me, a foundational verse that says, the Lord's plans are forever from generation to generation.

Psalms 33 11. Remember that phrase, generation to generation. So the four topics I'm going to discuss, I'm gonna start off with the last days. The last days is a phrase in Scripture that people turn as meaning the end of the world.

But if you study it scripturally, it's the Old Covenant age. If you go to Joel, and it says, in the last days I'll pour out my spirit, that phrase is spoken by Peter in the first sermon, when the Holy Spirit came down at Pentecost.

So Peter is putting that prophecy in his day, on that day at Pentecost. The writer Hebrews says that in these last days, meaning he was living when the last days was occurring, in these last days God spoke in the Son.

So when Jesus came, he was in the last days. And you'll have a last day, Jesus talks about it in John 6, where he resurrects, talking to the apostles. So that phrase to me, last days, has to be contained into the Old Covenant age.

Now the second thing I'm going to talk about is the purpose. The end game of Scripture is God's Spirit on man, from generation to generation. That's all the Old Testament gets to. That is the climax. So when you get to the New Testament, that's the fulfillment.

The Old Testament is the Scriptures. The New Testament is the fulfillment. And the promise is that God is going to give a new covenant, and he's going to put his Spirit upon man. That is the end game.

That's the purpose of God's plan. And that key phrase, generation to generation, he states offspring, your offspring and their offspring. This is a continuation. This is people having babies. But the point is, the Spirit of God is going to continue forever, as people get saved.

Jesus makes the prophecy about Christ, says his government will increase forever. This is what it is. As the sand of the sea and the stars of heaven, people will be getting saved forever. That's what Scripture is talking about.

So when you get to the New Testament, that's what happens. When you go to Revelation 21, and it talks about a new heaven and new earth, it's just another phrase for the New Covenant age. It's God's Spirit coming down, Revelation 21 3.

On the saints, the saints are given the kingdom, Daniel 7 22, because the saints are taking the gospel to the world. And the gospel is the city that's always open continuously, as the nations are coming in and getting saved.

If you read, continue on from chapter 21, 22, through the end of that chapter, and then go to Revelation 22, they taste of the tree for healing. If this is a utopian planet where there's no more sin and death, literally, you're not going to need any healing.

That makes no sense. Nor will you need nations coming into a city. If you go to 22, if you keep reading 14 and 15, it says outside the city are the sinners. So you've got a problem. You've got sinners in the new heaven and new earth.

The prophecy on the new heaven and new earth, which is Isaiah 65 and 66, again, speaks of the offspring. But look at the characteristics. They live to be a hundred or they don't. They build houses. They go up on the Sabbath and worship.

This is New Covenant language. This isn't some new planet language, where we are living in, you know, no sin, no physical death. None of this is mentioned in Scripture. It's talking about the New Covenant kingdom, where people are getting saved in the Spirit.

That's the purpose. Thirdly, I'm going to mention is the nature. The nature of the New Covenant kingdom is the Spirit. The Spirit is the New Covenant kingdom. If you go to 2 Corinthians 4, 18, it says the immortal is invisible.

The not seen is forever. Paul explains this in 1 Corinthians 15. He says your first body is the natural. Your second is the Spirit. It even makes an amazing statement when you get to 1 Corinthians 15, 50.

It says, now I say this, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does perishable inherit imperishable. In other words, physical bodies aren't going to literally be coming out of the ground and becoming imperishable.

That contradicts Scripture. Again, the point is God's Spirit on man, which is the Old Covenant promise, that again lasts forever from generation to generation. Ephesians 3, Paul makes that confirmation that it's the church.

321, it's the church forever from generation to generation. He's basically quoting Isaiah 59, 21. And go into 60, the saints are the ones that are the light, carrying the gospel to the world, that God gave it to the saints.

Daniel 7, 22, after the judgment. They are the stars of Daniel 12, 3, that are going out teaching righteousness. And that leads me into my fourth point, is the time indicators. In Daniel, you have the kingdom is going to be set up during the four kings.

Well, the Roman Empire is the last one. They've been gone 1 ,700 years. You go to Daniel 7, again, when Jesus goes up to the Ancient of Days, God takes the kingdom and he gives it to the saints after the judgment.

And this is what Isaiah 60 is talking about. It's us giving out, we are the light, giving out the gospel as people get saved. The nations come into that light, but coming into the kingdom, that's the new covenant teaching of scripture.

If you go to 12, the first three verses are the Great Tribulation, the raising of the dead, the old covenant dead, and then the gospel going out. That's 12, 1 through 3. When does it happen? Verse 7, when the power of the holy people are shattered.

The holy people are old covenant Israel. They're shattered because their city's destroyed and their temple's destroyed, and the presence of God is taken away. The power of Israel was the presence of God who was fighting for them.

So that's what Daniel's telling Daniel. And Daniel, he tells Daniel, close this vision for the times not now, and you'll go to sleep with your fathers until the end of the age. So when we get to Revelation 22, he says, open the book, the time is now.

I am coming quickly. The book is open because it's about to be fulfilled, the resurrection of the old covenant dead. That's when heaven opened, when the temple, the physical temple was destroyed. Hebrews 9, 8 is when heaven opened, and that's when Jesus, that's when God resurrects the old covenant dead, and they are judged.

And then the Spirit of God comes down in fullness, and the kingdom is now open to anybody. That's what Revelation 21 and 22 is talking about. These are events on earth. This is not some new literal planet after heaven and earth is destroyed.

Those statements are taken out of context. It's talking about old covenant Israel being destroyed and new covenant Israel taking effect. That's what the Scriptures are talking about. So it's not talking about a literal planet.

There's many passages in Scripture that says the planets here forever. Kingdoms come and kingdoms go, but earth is established forever. The earth sits on its axis forever. There's many passages that can contradict this idea that the physical planet is destroyed.

We have to take it into context what it's talking about. So those are a lot of the time indicators pointing to this new covenant kingdom. And look at some of the statements Jesus made. He told the Apostles, before you go to all the cities of Israel, the Son of Man will come.

They've been gone 2 ,000 years. Matthew 16, 27 through 28, Jesus said before some of you standing here will not taste death until the Son of Man comes with the reapers. That is just too damaging. Some of the Apostles still living.

John was going through the tribulation with them. Revelation 1 .19 said these are the things that have happened, are happening, are about to happen. This is an event in their lifetime. Matthew 23, Jesus is talking to the Pharisees and he says all the judgment, all the blood of the prophets will be on your generation.

I don't see how we can twist that. Then you get to 24 and he's talking to the Apostles in a private meeting and he says you're gonna see the abomination of desolation and then all these things are gonna happen to you.

And it mentions the great tribulation and then it says immediately after is when the sign of the Son of Man comes. See the Son of Man is not gonna be physically riding a cloud. It's the sign. They knew this.

That's why Paul says in 2 Thessalonians 2 .2 some had already been going to go astray that he already returned. That's not, that's not, if he was returning physically you can't confuse anybody. Especially if it's gonna destroy your plan.

None of those teachings fit scripture. They're looking for the sign and the sign is the army surrounding Jerusalem. When you see the army surround Jerusalem know that the end of all that is written is fulfilled.

All that was written in the Old Testament. You're talking the resurrection of the dead and the gospel going out. Everything in the Old Testament fulfilled at that time period because the point is ushering in the new covenant kingdom.

That's the point of scripture. That's the endgame promised by God. He created this earth. It's here forever and we are here forever. Now it's you have to put on your big boy britches to believe this because what that means is we're all gonna die physically.

That's just the way it is. That's God's plan. But we'll be resurrected. That's the promise. The destination is heaven. Jesus said I go to prepare a place and there I am you may be also. Paul said we don't know how he is now but we know we'll be like him.

If he was in his natural body we know how he is. That's not the point. You're raised spiritually. Jesus was allowed physical resurrection to prove the kingdom. Acts 10 40. It's the same reason the apostles and Jesus did all the healings and miracles.

They were signs to Israel that this new covenant kingdom had come. That's why the Jews had to be present when Cornelius got the gospel. It was all about signs during that generation. But that's not how the Spirit is poured out now in fullness.

It's all about fullness of knowledge and being able to walk in holiness. We don't raise the dead. We don't heal the sick. I mean you got people out there lying and teaching that but you know we can admit what's really going on here and we got it we got to go with what Scripture teaches.

Otherwise we're saying Jesus and the apostles lied about everything they said. If everything Jesus said none of it happened when he said it happened then we're calling him a false prophet. Jesus was accurate.

He's the true prophet according to Revelation. Everything he said came true. So when he said he's coming back and he's coming back without observation. It's invisibly because he's in a spirit body. Again the invisible is immortal.

Not the physical. The imperishable didn't put on perishable. So I mean all these things line up perfectly with preterism which I call the new covenant kingdom. It just makes complete sense and it all lines up and there's no point that I can find or can argue against it.

It's just ironclad teachings and again the old covenant is the scripture. What is the endgame of the old covenant? What does God say is going to be his new covenant? And the New Testament tells you. It's the saints.

Read Isaiah 60. Read Micah 4. The saints are given the kingdom. They're the stars. They're the ones teaching righteousness. It says we'll go up to the mountain of the Lord and learn. There's no reason to go learn in a perfect planet where everybody knows everything and we're forever.

None of this stuff fits that the church teaches. We just need to, in a perfect scenario as I made a comment earlier, Sam's got all these books behind him. I gave all my books away. You need one book folks and it's the Bible.

Read God's Word. Put all that other mess behind. You got to read the Word of God. His Word counts and I'll.

Yield my time. Thank you so much for that. I see somebody else that has a lot of books behind them too but he's muted. I wanted to make a quick announcement for anybody in the live chat. If you have questions, I'm seeing some questions in the live chat.

We're going to have an audience Q &A at the very end so if you would please type the word question and then a little dash with your question and then we will talk about that. Address your question to someone because they'll have up to two minutes to address that and then the other, the interlocutor will also be able to respond with some of their thoughts up to one minute.

I just want to remind the audience please send in your questions. We would love to tackle those at the end. Thank you Stacy for that awesome opening statement. Staying within your time. I appreciate that.

Now Dr. Frost, the man with many books in the background, what do you have to say to.

All that? Well, I can't do any rebuttal yet. That's true. You got 15 minutes to give your opening statement. Okay. My last six years here on being alive has been spent presiding over funerals, four of which have been my own family members, two of which were extremely close to me and that I miss on a daily basis.

One of them was taken out by cirrhosis of the liver. He died puffed up and filled with liquor liquid that had to be drained and for two weeks we administered hospice to my dad. My sister died of a brain cancer that I had two weeks to say goodbye to her.

She was one of my best friends. My first cousin, which I consider a brother of mine, was murdered and left for dead in the streets after he had been stabbed. My other cousin died of alcoholism. Another cousin of mine died a very slow painful death that took a couple of years to take him out.

I could go down the list of several other funerals that I've been involved with. Death is a real thing and death was not in the beginning. When God created the heavens and the earth and the Spirit, the Holy Spirit that we find in the Prophet Joel and that our Apostle Peter mentions in Acts chapter 2 is the same Spirit that hovered over the waters of the earth at the beginning, in the very beginning.

There is a purpose of God and death and evil is not it. The infinite idea that there would be child molestation and murder and rape and stabbing and human trafficking and wars and little babies being blown apart for infinity and that God is pleased with this.

That's not a God that I want to worship nor care about. But the God of Scriptures begins with creation and he orders all of his creation and he says it is good. He created good because this tells us something about the nature of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

He is a good God. He likes good. Good erupts from his heart because it is the very character of his being. Holiness is the very character of his being, not sin. Certainly not evil and certainly not evil acts.

Because of the sin of Adam and the transgression, but yet because of that act of transgression, an act of sin, Paul said sin abounded, but he said grace much more over abounded. It's one thing to make a mess, which is easy to do if you've had kids.

It's easy to make a mess. The hard thing is cleaning up the mess and that's what the super abounding of grace is. It's God saying, you know what, I'm gonna clean this up. This is gonna get cleaned up and when I'm done cleaning all of this up, it's going to look even more glorious in the end than it is in the beginning.

And that becomes then the purpose of God. That becomes the metanarrative. That becomes the larger picture of which all of these things that God begins to orchestrate in what we call a series of covenants that he begins to deal with human beings.

He does not leave them. He does not leave Adam. He comes and shows himself to Adam and Adam confesses his fault to him and God makes him a promise. A seed of a woman will come and will undo what the serpent has done, which he, by the way, curses the serpent.

What he says, because you did this. And so his aim is at the serpent to destroy the serpent. We find out later that the serpent is identified as the devil who kills, steals, destroys, murder, adultery, child rape, child molestation, child pornography, all of the evil, the disgustingness, the depravity of evil, and how anyone could actually suggest that this goes on for infinity, to me, is offensive to the very character of God.

The thing that allows theology to do what it is that it does is because we recognize that however many thousands and thousands of years God's purpose unfolds in time and space and in history, we know it's temporary.

We know that evil is temporary. And then that begins to allow us to entertain this notion called hope. Everything in all religion, in all of mankind, every philosophy, all of these books back here behind me, 30 some years reading and everything, I noticed one, there's several patterns that you can find in all the religions, ancient, Near Eastern, it doesn't make any difference, all times, all cultures, is that they yearn for a better life.

They have this thing in them about justice. There's something that cries out about the fountain of youth and wanting to live forever. Something went wrong, but yet there's something internal, whether it's Karl Marx, or whether it's Darwin, or whether it's Einstein, or whether it's Sigmund Freud, or whoever it is, it doesn't make any difference.

They're all wanting a better life. Everybody wants a better life. They want their kids to have health and a better life. So the idea of evil and the idea of destruction, that's the very opposite of what we would call good.

God is not ever called evil. God is called good. And we know throughout the scriptures that the whole purpose of Abraham's covenant, well, before I even get to that, by the time we get to Noah, it grieved the heart.

And please, please don't callous or minimize or sweep this under the rug. Let the power of what the scriptures say. It grieved the heart of God that he had made man. That's what evil does to God. It grieved God's heart that he had made man.

And he's gonna live with this forever? For infinity? By the time it got to Noah, his heart was grieved that he was wanting to destroy all flesh. And yet he found grace. There's that super abounding of grace.

There it is right there. So what was it that grieved the heart of God? It was because man was evil. Man was performing evil acts, doing evil things. The first thing that we see right out of the bat, and I've experienced this, was Cain murdering his brother.

I had mentioned that one of my first cousins, who I grew up with, he's like a brother to me, we grew up together, was murdered and left for dead in the streets. Murder is a horrible, disgusting depravity.

It's a horrible thing. It's so against the character and offends the holiness of God and who he is. And this is not for infinity. This is something that's going to be eradicated. This is something that's going to have justice served towards in the end, where all of these acts of evil will be rectified.

We believe in this and we hope in this, and therefore we live our lives in this, waking up each morning with the hope in the glory of God that he is going to bring justice. And in fact, we see little sunlights of justice here and there in our courts, which is why we rally for justice.

It's the very notion of justice. We want justice. But the idea that there will be no justice for infinity, that's not the God of the Bible that I read about. Instead, we find a God entering into these constant covenants of blessing, of bringing blessings.

I'll bless all the nations through a seed. And there's that seed again that comes through the woman. That seed's been promised in Genesis chapter 3, but we find him again. There it is in Abraham's covenant.

We go down the list and there it is again. So where's this seed? Where's this one that's going to come, that's going to bring about the end and bring about the blessings? And according to Isaiah chapter 25, it's going to remove the shroud that covers over all the nations.

I will swallow up the death, which is the shroud that covers over all the nations. And I will remove all pain and there shall be no more tears. I will wipe away their tears. See how that promise, see what the end is?

It's to remove what entered in through Adam, Romans chapter 5. Not for infinity that what came through the man, sin, death, because of law, and now we're under slavery and bondage to sin so that we have to grow old and corrupt and then die so that we can return to the dust that God made Adam to live and stand above and have dominion over all things, including dust, including the earth.

Not to be returned to it, but to be above it. See, this is why I get up in the morning and his mercies are new every morning because his breath is new every morning. And I get to breathe again his breath so that there's hope.

And I look for justice and I try to bring it, whether in my jail ministry or whether church ministry or whether I'm working with children or wherever I'm at, children of divorced families, wherever it is in justice, I'm trying to bring good, not evil.

But the reason why we do that is because we realize that evil one day will be eradicated. And so if I can bring about little eradications here and there daily in my life through Jesus Christ by the outpoured Holy Spirit that empowers me to do this with the fellowship of other saints, of which I most dearly need, because we're members of one body of Christ that he has brought together through his blood.

Now, what did he have to do to affect this? What did the cross, this suffering of innocence, who suffered in ways that I can't imagine finally to be hung up naked in front of his own mother. Now, if that doesn't just punch you right in the face, then you're not reading the gospel.

You're not reading the Bible. If it doesn't disgust you that God himself became grieved that he had created man, you're not letting the Bible say what it's supposed to say to your heart. You've become callous, dismissive.

Every act of child molestation and murder is disgusting. It's an affront to God, but it's the laughter of Satan. It's the laughter of evil and the wicked men. And these men are not going to be permitted to last forever.

The cross of Jesus Christ, which was the ultimate injustice, was triumphed over by the ultimate resurrection of the dead, because that's what life looks like. That's what justice looks like. He even triumphed over the dust of the earth and death itself.

And if I'm in him and he's shaping the body of Christ, this corporate body of Christ of which we are members of, then that's what we're going to participate in. Resurrection over death itself, where even my tears will be wiped away.

That's how minuscule, down to the point of the eradication of evil that God is going to get. There will not be a drop left when through the redemption of Jesus Christ and the price that he paid on the cross is finished.

There will not be a drop of evil left. If there is a drop of evil that is left, then God is not God. And his promises are null and void, because those are the promises that he made. In fact, and I'll conclude with this, because to me this overarching theme, so well coupled with all of the religions, all of the cultures that we find, offers a very powerful apologetic because it's relevant.

When I start talking about death and evil and injustice, I can go anywhere and people immediately are going to identify, oh yes, we don't like that. That's unjust. We need justice. We need just... Well, that's my language, but that's the language of the Bible.

It's the language of human beings. But the idea that this is going to go on forever and God's already dealt with everything and it's already all fulfilled and everything's happy, hunky-do-dory, very difficult to relate to.

I tried to make it relate, but in the end I found that it didn't relate hardly to anyone because no one really was understanding what I was saying. In Isaiah or in Matthew chapter 13, the last two minutes that I have, Jesus gives a very simple, very simple parable.

And he talks about a field in which he went out and they sowed seeds. The kingdom of heaven was like a man who sowed good seed in his field, but while everyone was sleeping, an enemy came and sowed weeds.

And he went away and the weeds sprouted and formed heads and then the weeds also appeared. And the owner's servant came and said, sir, didn't you sow good seed? Where did these weeds come from? He said, well, an enemy did this.

Okay, well, let us pull up all the weeds so that we can have, you know, the wheat. And the harvester says, no, let both grow together. I can identify with that because we have that in the church where we have evil and we have good.

We have scandals, we have adulteries, we have all kinds of things like King David. You know, he had an adultery and then had the lady that he had adultery with killed. It's nothing new. Jimmy Swagger, Jimmy Baker, we've seen all this stuff.

It's going to end. That's why I can identify with the scriptures because I'm like, yeah, I've seen that before. So I don't get too shocked because I know God's going to end it. But Jesus explains this parable.

He says, as the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The son of man will send out his angels and they will weed out of his kingdom. Now, what is this kingdom?

Well, he says it right here. The harvest is the end of the age and the harvesters are the angels. And the field is the world. That's the king. God's kingdom is the whole world. He rules over the whole world.

And it says right here that he's going to remove out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. Everything that causes sin and all who do evil will be removed, which is what the Bible says over and over and over again.

That came in through the one man. All of that came through the one man will be removed and undone. It's.

Temporary. And I'll stop there. Thank you so much. What an excellent opening statement. I just want to thank y 'all so much so far for y 'all's respect and y 'all's passion. I'm learning a lot. And I just want to also encourage the audience.

It seems like we have some good, lively interaction. If you have a question for either Sam or Mr. Stacey, type the word question and then address who you want your question for. And we will look to be addressing that at the end.

So now we're going to transition to our rebuttals. And so, Mr. Stacey, you have 10 minutes to rebut Dr. Frost. The floor is yours. Again, when we're looking at.

Scripture, we have to let Scripture answer Scripture and not tradition. The no more tears sounds great. And I mean, I believed that my whole life until I started reading the Old Testament more. That passage in Isaiah 25 says he takes away their disgrace because Israel was a disgrace in the Old Covenant.