IF:Gathering 2020 Message Review- "Our Mess" & Being Made Whole?

Podcast Purpose, Ministry Resources, and the IF:Gathering Critique

We are going to talk about Jesus.

When God does not do the thing that we've been praying for, and if you're really holy, it's not just a prayer, like you've probably added some fasting, some daily scripture reading, because let me tell you something, when you want something from God, you can give up carbs in a minute.

If 2020, we are going to focus completely, entirely, solely on the person of Jesus.

When life is happening, I tell them what a treat is, and so after we have dinner, and I'm like, was dinner good? Yes, I'm full, that's a treat.

Every talk is going to be about Jesus.

The theme of If Gathering 2020 is Jesus.

Funny, if God says, Jada, but you do the same thing. You want extra from me when you don't understand that just salvation from hell is a treat. That just the gospel alone is a treat. Can I show you the cross?

That's a treat. If I never add another blessing, the fact that when you die, you'll be face to face with me,.

That's a treat.

But because we're going to preach the name of Jesus.

We're going to preach the name of Jesus.

It's the only name we care about. It's the only name that changes lives. The only hope we have to give.

And you say that you want to hear from God, but he speaks at inconvenient times. He says things like, be quiet. And I'm like, was that you, Lord? Because you know I'm a talker.

It is what we're going to put all of our hope,.

All of our stock in, because we know he is the only hope. We know there is nothing that can solve the chaos of this world and the chaos inside of us except for him. And so he is going to be the thing we focus all of our attention on in If 2020.

So that means that we want you to invite your people, because we believe there's going to be people that meet Jesus for the very first time. We believe there's going to be people that have been far away from God and the church, and they're going to come back.

We believe there are people that love Jesus,.

But they don't know what it means to live for him. And we're going to talk about all of that.

Truly, we're not longing for happiness. We're longing for wholeness.

We're going to start this thing off with one of my favorite chapters in this book called the Bible.

And so what happens in the first seven chapters of Romans, Paul says, let me tell you the mess that we got ourselves into. Creation was a mess. They act like they didn't see God in the sunsets and the beauty of the earth.

They act like they didn't hear the voice of God speaking to them.

They ignored it.

We were sinful. We were a mess.

And whether you've known Jesus for a long time or you're just checking him out, we're not going to water him down here.

He comes and says, listen, even on my best day, I'm a mess. I've got internal conflict happening. It's one of my favorite passages because he's just a little bit scatterbrained, and I can relate to that.

So he's talking about, like, hey, the things that I want to do, I don't do, things I know I should do. It's kind of like I know I should not have the donut, but then the donut has a whisper, and it's like, yes, it won't be that bad.

We're going to Romans 8. I don't know that there's a deeper theological piece of work in the Bible, so we're going here.

Remember you ate a salad yesterday. That's what happens, right? And you're like, yeah, the salad is going to go in, and with the donut, it's going to win. So we start telling ourselves stuff because there's an internal war being waged.

My dream, guys, I don't dream small. I only dream big, and my dream is to disciple a whole generation, and that takes all of us working together.

We give you the tools.

You all take them and use them in your places. We cannot wait to see what God's going to do. Do not miss. If 2020 will be the best one yet. And what you will leave with, I believe, is more of Jesus.

Hermeneutics and the Importance of Biblical Interpretation

Hermeneutics is the science of Bible interpretation. And I want you to identify it as a science because it is a science. That is, it operates under fixed rules. That's very important to establish. It is the crucial science behind all accurate doctrine, all sound doctrine that is faithful to the Word of God.

Where you have a deviation from sound doctrine, inevitably you have a failure to stay by the science of hermeneutics, or you have a flat-out denial of the veracity and authenticity of the text itself.

But in the case where somebody affirms the text, heresy happens because while affirming the text, you misinterpret the text. Every text of Scripture has one true interpretation. We might not get them all right.

We might disagree. But all texts of Scripture have one interpretation, one only. That is the essence of communication. God is saying something, not anything you want Him to say, and not everything. So the distinctive science of Bible interpretation is called hermeneutics, and it is behind all sound doctrine, all understanding of Scripture.

And consequently, anything that is wrong is a deviation for the most part. Anything certainly that is heretical is a deviation from the principles of sound interpretation. The importance of careful biblical interpretation couldn't be overstated.

It's impossible to overstate it. Misinterpreting the Bible, listen, is essentially no better than not believing it, okay? Misinterpreting it is essentially no better than not believing it because if you believe something it doesn't say, you have missed what it does say.

So while believing what it doesn't say, you don't believe what it does say. What good does it do to agree that the Bible is God's Word, God's revelation, if you misinterpret it, you miss the truth, you miss the authorial intent?

Interpreting Scripture is absolutely critical.

Podcast Introduction and Purpose Statement

Welcome to the Thoroughly Equipped podcast, where we compare the teachings from popular women's ministry, books, conferences, Bible studies, etc., to Scripture. Our focus is 2 Timothy 3, 16 -17, that all Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness so the man or woman of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

I'm your host, Melba Toast. May this episode bless you and bring glory to God. Hello, ladies, and welcome to another episode of Thoroughly Equipped. So glad you could join me today. And if you are new, well, welcome.

So two things before we dive into this episode. I wanted to share with you guys, if you didn't already know, Thoroughly Equipped is part of Striving for Eternity's Christian podcast community. If you are a person who just loves podcasts, loves to listen to podcasts as you're driving or working or anything like that, or you're looking for new podcasts that are solid with Christian teaching and theology, Striving for Eternity's Christian podcast community is a great place to see a ton of podcasts and subscribe to any of the podcasters on there.

So to do that, you go to strivingforeternity .org and up on the tabs in the home screen, they have podcasts that will direct you to the Christian podcast community and you can find Thoroughly Equipped on there as well as many, many other good Christian podcasters.

Also, exciting news for me is Thoroughly Equipped is now on Letz .Church. Letz .Church is a website, or actually it's a platform for podcasters or YouTubers who are very Christian, theologically sound channels and podcasters.

And what I love about Letz .Church is that it's number one, it's free. Yes, YouTube's free, but some of the things that I don't like about YouTube is that there are constant commercials. So, mom, if you're listening to this, I know that, well, I know that you are, but Letz .Church is the place to go to to watch the YouTube channel and any other good reformed YouTube channels for free and free of ads.

So definitely check that out. Link is in the show notes below or you can just type in Letz .Church. All right. We are trudging through here in the beginnings of the throes of this series looking at the very popular women's conference, the IF Gathering.

If this is your first time listening or watching these episodes or you're new to Thoroughly Equipped, I highly suggest you first dive into this series on IF, which started with last week's episode. The link is above or in the show notes below.

And in the first part of this critique series, I presented to you the heart or purpose of the IF Gathering and we compare their goal of discipleship to Scripture's goal in discipleship. Now, in this part of the series, we're going to look at the way the conference presents and handles Scripture.

And the way I'm going to like dive into this is I'm going to hone in on the 2020 conference. And that's because in this conference, Miss Allen decided to have each of the speakers give a message on Romans 8, splitting the chapter into sections from which they will teach.

And yes, we are going to address each message. To lay out for you how I'm going to tackle this, I will present the speaker, look into some of their ministry. I will read them the passage that they're supposedly teaching on and then give you a synopsis of what they spoke about.

I'm going to be fair and address what I felt was good and then play for you clips where there are issues and the problematic teachings. If you are able, I highly suggest you grab your Bible and open up to Romans.

We are going to be going through referencing more than just chapter 8 because this chapter is, of course, not to be read in a vacuum, but is the context of a letter written to the Romans on the Christian faith and more specific to this chapter, the contrast between those who walk in the flesh and those who walk in the spirit.

All right, to start, though, I'm going to play for you a clip from the 2020 conference introduction given by Jenny Allen herself talking about her vision for that year's conference.

I want to give you a vision for these two days because you have braved childcare, tornadoes, snow storms to get to your houses. You're literally, some of you watching right now are watching from a complete stranger's house.

You know no one. You literally showed up at a stranger's house. This is a miracle. It is a miracle that across the earth right now over 3 ,000 events are taking place. It's a miracle. It's a miracle that over 600 college students are hosting in their dorm rooms, on their campuses, in homes, in apartments.

It's a miracle. And so many people show up at If Gathering and they're like, what is happening? Where are we? And I just, I don't want a single person to miss what it is we're doing here. I don't want anything to distract you.

I don't want to confuse you that this is a show or that we've prepared some entertainment for you. That's not why we're here. I don't think that's why you're here. I don't think you came to be entertained.

I think you came because you are weary. I think you came because you are hungry and thirsty. I think you came because you were like, you know what? I don't know right now about God, but I'm going to give him these two days.

And we're going to see.

Some of you, you are walking in and your marriage is falling apart. And I just want to say it at the very beginning that you are welcome here.

That we are so glad you said yes.

And that you overcame barriers to show up. I just want you to know, no matter how invisible you feel, no matter how scary this is, no matter how dadgum awkward this might be, that you would know that this is a place you're going to be safe.

We're going to do our best to take care of you. We are fighting for you because we are at war, people. It is wild. And we need Jesus more than we've ever needed him. This world needs Jesus. And as I prayed about 2020, let me tell you, this is what I dreamt.

This is what I saw.

It wasn't about us. It wasn't about you watching.

It wasn't about you in your seat.

It was about the world.

And I believe what's going to happen here in the next two days, it's going to shape eternity. I believe it. And not because we're fancy or special, but because we're going to preach the name of Jesus.

We're going to preach the name of Jesus.

It's the only name we care about. It's the only name that changes lives. It's the only hope we have to give. And those of you that that's news to you and your neighbor tricked you,.

I'm sorry.

But you know what I think?

I think you're going to love him. I think you're going to love him. I think you're going to find out he's so different than what you thought. He is delightful. And he is delighted that we're together.

He is smiling so big right now that his girls across the earth are coming together for two days to talk about him, to talk to him, and to make him known on this earth. It's my greatest hope.

3 ,000 locations across the globe. Wow, that's a lot of women. Women of all sorts of backgrounds, women who know Jesus and women who don't know Jesus. Women who are struggling in their lives with trial and tribulations of all shapes and sizes.

Her hope for the conference is that the audience come to know Jesus and go back and proclaim Jesus to the world. I agree to a certain extent. A women's conference should help equip women with the knowledge of Jesus, who he is, what he's done, what he will do, and the tools he has given to equip women to live by faith in the gospel.

So as I present to you their messages, keep this in mind and observe how much they talk about him and proclaim him. And especially because there are unbelieving women attending this conference, let's assess whether they give the full gospel.

She continues discussing her hopes for the women attending.

I think about the bad guys. I think about the devil that has oppressed you, that has torn your freaking life apart. And I think about all of us gathered, preaching the name of Jesus, loving the name of Jesus.

And I think we're just people, but we're showing up. And I think that could change the world. That's why we're here. We believe in just people full of the spirit of God, teaching the word of God, praying to the living God.

We believe in you to change the world. So I just had to tell you before we got going. Two days. Let's worship our God.

Okay, so she believes it is the mission of God's people to change the world. I want to hone in on this a little bit and bring to your attention that the mission of the church is to make disciples of Christ.

This was what we tackled in last week's episode. The mission of discipleship is to baptize disciples in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that he has commanded.

Matthew 28, 19 -20. So the goal is not to change the world, but to save individuals from God's wrath to come. God's wrath is against this world, and the world knows it, and it hates God. Christ states this in John 15, 18 -25.

If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.

That is why the world hates you. Remember what I told you. A servant is no greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.

We're talking about the apostles here. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin.

But now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my father as well. If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my father.

But this is to fulfill what is written in their law. They hated me without reason. So the world wants change, but change done its way. It wants change without God, without repentance of sin, and without the work of Christ.

It does not want to be reconciled to God as it hates the Father. The problem with popular evangelicalism today is that it wants to comply with the world's way of changing instead of God's way of changing.

And I am fully convinced now that the If gathering does exactly that. This is one of the things I wish to present to you in the future critiques of this series. That it will take man's teaching and incorporate the world's analytical tools, mix it with Christian ideas to make Christianity relevant, and to quote-unquote reclaim discipleship as God's means to change the world.

And we're going to start this thing off with one of my favorite chapters in this book called the Bible. And whether you've known Jesus for a long time or you're just checking Him out, we're not going to water Him down here.

We're going to Romans 8. I don't know that there's a deeper theological piece of work in the Bible, so we're going here. And what you will leave with, I believe, is more of Jesus.

So in that clip, she acknowledges that there may be people in the audience who are just, quote, checking Jesus out. Now that would imply that unbelievers are in the audience. And she emphasizes how then her goal is to go through Romans chapter 8 so that they will leave with more of Jesus.

So I want to see if the gospel is actually presented. Do any of the speakers present our problem and placard Christ as our only hope? Romans is the perfect place to go to get a thorough proclamation of both these things.

But Romans 8, if not handled in context and twisted, can easily lead an unbeliever to think that they are right with God without acknowledging their sin, their repentance of their sin, and their need for a Savior because of their sin.

The majority of the book of Romans itself is proclaiming our problem and need for Christ. So let's keep this in mind as well, to observe if they are teaching that we are sinners under God's judgment and are urged then to trust in Christ and his work for the forgiveness of our sins.

The 2020 conference is a perfect opportunity to show how these women handle scripture. Do they draw out from the scripture in context what the Holy Spirit through Paul wishes to teach us? Or do they take certain verses, words, or concepts out of their context so that they may interject what they want to teach?

Do they talk more about themselves, their stories? Or do they talk about Christ and his work? Do they talk rightly about sin so that they can rightly give the gospel? Do they make the gospel more about God's great love for you, his pursuit of you, and his plan for you without first explaining our sinful nature?

Or stay as children of wrath who have no hope without trusting in the finished work of Christ? Do they exalt Christ and his work because by it we have no other hope? Or do they treat the gospel as something of the past and now we need motivational, engaging speeches to live like Christians?

Do they not only proclaim by words that the scriptures are authoritative without error and sufficient to train us unto righteousness, but act on that belief by teaching from the scriptures, handling it with honor in its context, urging their listeners to look to it to thoroughly equip them for all good works?

Or do they dishonor it and minimize its necessity to equip us by adding their own philosophies, examples, and opinions? Let's really look at the way these teachers from the IF gathering handle scripture.

So the first session centered on Romans 8 was a message delivered by Jada Edwards on verses 1 to 4. But who is Jada Edwards? Well, she is wife to Dr. Conway Edwards, lead pastor of one community church, one of the fastest growing churches in Plano, Texas.

Jada Edwards is creative art director for the church. As creative art director, she has, quote, global oversight over all of their worship and performance arts ministries. Anyone in that position of authority over worship should also be a man who knows good theology because the way worship is done should be rooted in biblical doctrine.

And there is a form of authority and deep theological teaching that comes in worship and singing and the way worship is done in the church. So my opinion, I think it's quite clear that men should hold that position of authority.

So while this is a problem in itself, the even more glaring problem is that she often preaches to the congregation of one community church. One of her more recent sermons is titled, Why Miracles Happen, from their Waymaker series posted to YouTube back in June of this year.

Now, I know another person who had a book and series of sermons titled Waymaker. Her name is Ann Boskamp, a teacher I would identify as a Christian mystic and has some very, very problematic theology regarding God and what type of a relationship we should have with him.

But I didn't dive deep enough into the series to know if OCC adopted Boskamp's series, but it really wouldn't surprise me with Edwards and Boskamp's connection through the If Gathering, both who have played a consistent role in this ministry for several years now.

But in this sermon to one community church, she talks about the roles miracles play in our lives, emphasizing that we should be expecting the miraculous in our lives as we go after God's purpose in it.

I'm excited to be in this series about him as a waymaker, because not only is that something we see in the New Testament, but we see it throughout all of scripture. And here's the thing. We should want divine things happening.

We should want to see the miracles of God. If you serve a God who's supernatural and created everything and holds things in his hand, it would be inconsistent with his character to not see miracles on a regular basis.

So we can see that she has no problem rejecting God's clear instruction to women to not teach or exercise authority over men at one community church. She also associates with other problematic false teachers, such as Christine Kane, who has been a guest speaker at OCC.

She also connects with women from the from TBM's Better Together program. And of course, she's been associated and even has helped promote other women, problematic women at the If Gathering. This should make us question her one commitment to Christ as her authority and her level of maturity and her lack of discernment.

But how does she handle scripture? Well, that's what we're going to look at today in this episode. So remember, Jenny Allen made it very clear that we're going to dive into Romans chapter 8 at the 2020 conference, and each speaker was given a portion of this chapter to teach on in hope of bringing all who attend and listen to this conference closer to Christ.

To, quote, leave it loving Christ for. Jada Edwards' message is centered on Romans 8, verses 1 to 4. So let's look at the text here. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

For the law of the spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law weakened by the flesh could not do. By sending his own son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he contends sin in the flesh in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the spirit.

So we're going to just dive right into Edwards' message here, but I am going to interrupt as we go to dive back into scripture. So let's look at what she has to say. Ms. Edwards starts her message on a story mourning the loss of a sports star who recently in 2020 had passed away.

I happen to be traveling the day that Kobe Bryant died.

She uses the story to dive into the theme of her message, how the world views Christianity and its answer to the problem of evil in this world.

We are in a battle, as Jenny said earlier. We are in a war because our culture is dealing with reality, the things that happen in a fallen, broken, temporary world, and they want our Christianity when it's convenient.

But when it's inconvenient, they're like, just keep that to yourself. And so we've got to figure out how do we navigate that.

She rightly points out that people come to Christianity thinking that it will fulfill our worldly needs.

We're living in a culture, even in the church world, that primarily views Christianity as useful rather than crucial. We primarily view Christianity as useful rather than crucial. And so depending on where we are and what our social and psychological and physical and financial needs are, then we run to Christianity.

And if it fails us, we find a way to meet our own needs. So the world doesn't think of Christianity as divine revelation but human opinion. So that's why we say things like, oh, if that's your truth. Oh, I get it, but this is my truth.

Because somewhere in some alternate reality, we've created versions of truth. And Paul tells me in Galatians there's only one truth. There's one gospel. And anything apart from that is not a truth. But we create these versions.

And so the world gets more and more confused. We don't believe in the church and outside of the church that God knows our deepest need and can provide the remedy in Christ Jesus alone. The world thinks they know their own needs.

But here's the thing. The problem is that sometimes in the church we do too. Now I love the church. I love the church. We have a church. I go to church. I love the church. However, the church can get a little off track too because the church is led by people.

And we tend to form messages and create an idea that Jesus Christ and the gospel is set up to fix your life. And if you want to follow him, it really is about making good decisions so he will bless your good decisions.

And so most of our sermon series and the things that are popular in our churches today, and this is not self-righteous. We have to wrestle with this in our own church. They tend to address people's practical problems more than the overarching truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

So we love to talk about fixing marriages and getting your finances right and raising great children and what does it mean to find your calling and your purpose and those things are good. But the gospel is the only thing that really changes lives.

I find that we want to manipulate the hand of God with our righteous living.

Okay, so how true is that? It is exactly what I did in my own religious life and I am super impressed that she would point this out. I wish though that she would call it what it is. Pride, sin, doubt in God's sovereignty and goodness.

Now R .C. Sproul describes these people as wanting the blessings of God but not wanting God himself. And that is so true of so many people in the purpose-driven, pragmatic, and prosperity gospel churches.

They come to God for blessings, whether that be the blessing of purpose, security, identity, success, material possessions, successful marriages, health and wealth, etc. Not understanding that their deepest need is God himself.

In fact, we have an example in scripture of Jesus warning people of coming to him for earthly needs. Yes, Jesus has compassion and care for humanity whom he created but he makes it very clear in the living bread discourse in John 6 that our greatest need is his body and blood sacrificed for our sins reconciling us to God.

Now it would have been very helpful to go into this passage a bit or even use this passage as Jesus' own explanation of our greatest need but she doesn't. She goes on to describe in her own life how she has to at times remind her kids that the provisions of candy, sleeping on a mattress, eating dinner, and etc. are treats.

Sometimes I help them along when life is happening. I tell them what a treat is. And so after we have dinner and I'm like, was dinner good? Yes, I'm full. That's a treat. Dinner's a treat, okay? Because that's the sacrifice I'm making.

Everybody like their bed tonight? Treat. Consider yourself treated. Consider yourself treated, all right?

She explains how we sometimes don't understand that God has supplied our greatest need making all other things treats. It is after explaining this that she dives into the text. Now, I really appreciated that she went into what Paul wrote before chapter 8 to put it in context.

Because it's in these chapters that our sinful nature is laid bare for us and Christ's work is argued as our only salvation. And she points out here that there is bad news that comes before the good news that we receive in chapter 8.

We know that there's good news, but it's the bad news that puts the good news in perspective. And so what happens in the first seven chapters of Romans, Paul says, let me tell you the mess that we got ourselves into.

Creation was a mess. They act like they didn't see God in the sunsets and the beauty of the earth. They act like they didn't hear the voice of God speaking to them.

They ignored it.

We were sinful. We were a mess. It's just bad after bad after bad. Chapter 7, he comes and says, listen, even on my best day, I'm a mess. I've got internal conflict happening. And he ends chapter 7 by saying, but thanks be to God that Jesus has come and saved the day.

Okay, I can appreciate what she's saying here in this clip, but there is something I want to point out. In the second to last statement, she stated there that Paul in chapter 7 is conveying that he is, quote, a mess and has internal conflict.

That's only half the issue. Let's look at this portion in chapter 7, and we're going to start in verse 13 and read through to 23. Did that which is good then bring death to me? By no means. It was sin producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure.

For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh sold under sin. For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now, if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law that it is good.

So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.

For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now, if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. Here is the specific text that she is probably referencing.

So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand, for I delight in the law of God in my inner being. But I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.

Wretched man that I am, who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

So we really need to take notice of what Paul is describing here, that our sinful nature, our fleshly passions are what drive us to sin, and the law is good and spiritual and right, and by it our sins are brought to light and exposed.

So Paul is describing an internal conflict, but not merely an internal one, but a conflict of the spirit against the flesh. In his mind, he agrees with the law of God, the commands of God, that they should be obeyed and fulfilled, but his flesh fights him and produces sinful acts.

That is what he means by, I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members, and that he serves the law of God with his mind, but with his flesh serves the law of sin.

Now here is the way Miss Edwards describes the conflict.

So we have to know, because we like to run to the no condemnation, but there's other things that's happening, y 'all, especially in Romans chapter 7. It's one of my favorite passages because he's just a little bit scatterbrained, and I can relate to that.

So he's talking about, like, hey, the things that I want to do, I don't do, things I know I should do. It's kind of like, I know I should not have the donut, but then the donut has a whisper, and it's like, yes, it won't be that bad.