Should Christians Watch Movies Filled with Gratuitous Violence?

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All right, Tim, the question for today's episode is, should Christians watch movies filled with gratuitous violence?

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There's a lot that's going on in a question like this, and some of it is a male -female kind of discussion.

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So, in general, men are much more prone to enjoy watching movies with violence and then to think that there's some sort of justification in doing that.

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And so, there's a lot of subjectivity in how that's even worded.

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So, I mean, there's not just universal agreement between the genders on what constitutes filled with violence, and then there's not agreement between the genders on what is constituting gratuitous violence either.

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And so, part of that reminds me of a movie night I was having with my wife where she was trying to pick a movie that I would like, and so she picked a movie that was more of a war movie or whatever.

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And so, then once the violent scenes came on, like this is supposed to be watching a movie that I would like, that she was picking for me, but then when the violent scenes came on, she started fast -forwarding it, and I just kind of looked over at her, and I said, honey, what are you doing?

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Those are the best parts. And she's like, oh, yeah, that is kind of weird, isn't it, that I'm fast -forwarding this.

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But so, part of it is a male -female discussion along those lines. And then there's also a school shooter kind of discussion too.

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And this is a discussion that's been going on for many years. And I remember growing up, particularly it was normally middle -aged women who were basically looking at young men and saying that all the violent video games would result in essentially young men going on shooting sprees and everything else.

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But then the violent video games at that time were like Mortal Kombat or something like that.

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So Mortal Kombat was probably one of the first violent video games that they were talking about.

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And I wasn't even allowed to play Mortal Kombat growing up. We played Street Fighter or whatever. But as a young man listening to those kind of arguments, and having those kind of arguments with middle -aged moms and that kind of thing, they're just looking at me and they're saying, hey, you're desensitized to this.

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And I'm just looking at them and I'm thinking to myself, I've never had no desire to kill anyone.

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And looking just straight up logic and statistics, the amount of school shooters out there are virtually none.

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So they show up on the news every once in a while, but there's millions and millions and millions of kids probably playing violent video games throughout the world.

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And this kind of stuff is very small percentage of events that actually happen.

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And so in terms of the statistics of the thing, logically, there's not this overwhelming, like you watch violent movies, you play violent video games, you're going to become a serial killer or something like that.

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The numbers just simply don't air those things out. And I think that the increase in those kind of things happening that you can see over the course of my life, like there's an increase, but it's like almost an increase from zero to slightly more than zero kind of thing.

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So almost nonexistent. So I mean, you can have like a double the amount and if the amount was four per year and now it's eight per year or something like that,

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I don't know the exact numbers, then that's still like a drop in the bucket compared to what's going on.

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And so I think looking at this topic in general, I think there's, I guess

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I have a lot of thoughts and it's hard to nail down a easy, quick answer, but then my original impulse is just to say that most of the case that people generally make,

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I don't know that this is thought out as what it should be as far as those things are concerned. Yeah, my perspective as someone who also grew up sort of in the,

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I don't know if there's like an official name for it, but it's sort of this era where there's kind of like a war being waged on especially violent video games.

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For me, it wasn't as much Mortal Kombat as it was things like GTA, right?

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Where you can, it's basically, it's borderline just like a sandbox game where you can just,

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I mean, run people over, shoot people, rob people, all these different kinds of things that are obviously crimes and they're almost like glorified in the game and you do them and you kind of laugh at it all as you're doing it, which sounds pretty sadistic as you say it.

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But then, I mean, I know the most recent GTA game that came out in like 2012 or something like that and maybe it was 13.

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I mean, I think at the time it broke the record for most copies of any video game sold ever.

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And so that means millions of people are playing this game and no one's going out with their -

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You're all playing it all in real life. I think for like 99 .99

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% of people who play those kinds of games, they have like a disconnect in their mind between reality and video games, right?

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In my mind, so I'm also growing up in that kind of like, hey, everyone's just kind of saying, hey, if you play

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GTA, you're going to become just like you are in GTA, right?

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In every single way. And I kind of, I definitely as a kid rolled my eyes at that and I still don't really see how that's entirely true.

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You know, as you look at how many people play those games and how few ever actually, you know, ever thought what they were doing in the game would ever translate to real life in any kind of way.

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But then I think for me personally, I have sort of changed my view in terms of like what

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I think about this sort of like gratuitous violence kind of thing.

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Not necessarily because I think it'll make you, you're going to go out and, you know, and steal everyone's car and run people over.

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But then I do sort of wonder as I read through the Bible how much of like subjecting myself to this is really honoring

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God at the end of the day. Because as I read descriptions, you know, as you go through the

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Old Testament, as you read descriptions of the nation surrounding Israel, one of the things that you're going to see is really common is they're incredibly bloodthirsty, right?

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They're an incredibly violent people normally. So you see that like in Jonah, for example, the

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Ninevites are described as a bloodthirsty people. And God, you know, that's part of the reason

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God's going to judge them. And so I think at some point you have to ask yourself like when

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I'm subjecting myself to a movie that is just like overwhelmingly, you know, violent in every single way, is this something that pleases

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God? But, you know, and even

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David. So David is told by God that he is not going to be the one to build

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God's temple for the Israelites because he was a man of war, right?

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And so his son would come along, King Solomon would come and he would build it instead. And King Solomon's reign was mostly marked by, it seems like peace overall as he was building the temple.

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And so it seems like God has a, he does not like people who are described as bloodthirsty.

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And I know this doesn't necessarily answer the question, like how much violence makes it gratuitous, right?

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How much violence makes a movie filled with gratuitous violence? I know it doesn't answer that question, but at least from like a, how should we think about these things in general?

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I do sort of wonder, you know, personally,

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I kind of wonder, like, is it necessarily, can you say like it's a sin to, you know, watch that kind of movie?

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I don't know that I can say it's sin, right? Do you agree? Well, yeah,

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I think it just kind of depends. So it kind of depends on what you're talking about. And so part of it is you have different, you know, as we've worded the question, watching movies that are filled with component one, component two is gratuitous violence.

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And so like the idea of gratuitous violence is like gratuitous means unnecessary, unwarranted or unjustified.

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And that kind of gives you some sort of, you know, categories to think through the kind of violence that you're even talking about.

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And so, you know, if you're thinking about like a war movie in particular or something like that, in order to portray realistically what war looks like, you're going to have to include some sort of violence and you're going to have to include some sort of violence that, you know, maybe your standard female will find to be offensive.

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Okay. And so, you know, part of this discussion, like you talk about you've evolved over time on this. I don't know that I've necessarily changed my basic posture over time, but then what's happened over time is that I've learned to, like, be honest about my reactions.

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Does that make sense? Okay. What do you mean? So, I mean, I never really gravitated towards like moral combat, you know, growing up or things like that, you know, like you're talking about video games, movies.

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I never, I mean, I never, so part of that was because my parents told me we're not allowed to play it, right?

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Because it felt like demonic in certain ways. And it did, I mean, it seemed like an evil, like a evil video game, you know, by, like if you're comparing that with Mario, you know, or Sonic, things like that, right?

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Yeah. Like this is definitely demonic and evil. And, you know, so I, then we were trying to kind of stay away from that kind of stuff.

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And then when the GTA Grand Theft Auto stuff came on the scene, I think we were a little bit past, you know, the prime of our video game days and things like that at that point.

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But then there was something that's like, always been repelling to me about role -playing evil.

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So, you know, in any kind of like game that I played growing up, I would always pick the good guy. And it was really hard for me just to be the evil guy.

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Even when I tried to take the evil path, you know, it, like, I would actually accidentally do the good options, you know, on autopilot.

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And so, I mean, like, you know, 80 % of the time, 90 % of the time, I just pick the good path, you know?

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So there's something that was always kind of, like, I didn't gravitate that way. And then, like, horror movies would be an example of just gratuitous violence, right?

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Like, gratuitous, like, it's filled with just gratuitous, no, like, pointless. Like, the point of the movie is the violence, right?

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The violence is, so I always, I never watched horror movies. I never, like, it just, it was something that, you know, growing up our parents wouldn't let us do, but then

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I had kind of internalized that kind of, like, I don't, you know, I don't have any interest in that kind of thing in general.

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And so then, you know, I think I always had kind of that posture in general, but then the only people

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I'm arguing with are the kind of person who is basically saying, like, you know, a violent video game is going to turn you into a serial killer or something, and I'm just looking at them, like, what planet do you live on?

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You know, like, that doesn't actually happen. Like, you know, and the people that do, you know, they're typically people on psychotropic drugs and having other things going on, you know, so it's just, and it's very, very rare.

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So I think over time what's happened is, like, my original stance was just to say, like, this is a big nothing burger.

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This is a bunch of, like, ladies who are just, they need to let men be men, right? Like, need to let men be men, and men, like, men need to develop courage in order to go to war, and, you know, and so men gravitate towards that kind of thing, but then there is also the kind of, like, like,

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I think bloodthirsty, you said that over and over again, and I think there is, like, this idea of being bloodthirsty, and there is kind of a glorying in violence that can happen at a certain level.

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Like, Grand Theft Auto, like, the point is you're glorying in the evil, right? You're roleplaying the evil.

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You have a perverse kind of pull towards being destructive to harming people, to seeing people get harmed.

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There's kind of a, you know, like, the kind of person who may, like, Google, like, lion -eating human videos or something online.

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Like, like, there's nothing good about that, right? Like, there's nothing, like, that's kind of a perverse fascination, like, fascination that you need to mortify, right?

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You don't need to kind of feed that to delight and, you know, carnage. Psalm 11 .5

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says, The Lord tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence. And so, like, I think, like, the idea of loving violence, that would be a sin.

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The person who loves violence. And so then the idea of, like, gratuitous violence, like, movies filled with gratuitous violence, not just, like, maybe a scene that has gratuitous violence, like, you know, but, like, just movies that are filled with gratuitous, like, unnecessary, unwarranted, unjustified violence,

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I think there's a type of person who just, that's, there's a perverse draw towards that direction.

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And, like, that person, when they watch that kind of movie, they may be feeding that, like, perversity in them.

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Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. And then there may be another kind of person who may, like, watch a movie that has too much violence in it and just be like, alright, whatever, you know, kind of thing.

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So I think your reaction should be more the, alright, not interested in that kind of, like, a godly person,

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I think their reaction shouldn't be, I don't love violence for the sake of violence, and I'm not wanting, I'm not sitting here thinking, oh, that's so awesome, did you see his head, like, literally explode, you know?

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Like, there's something that's, like, Hang on, rewind that. Yeah, I mean, there's something that, like, you should be kind of repelled by that, and so then if you were to, you know, without drawing the line, absolutely, like, if you were to watch, like, a movie with too much gratuitous violence in it, you know, you probably should, your reaction of a godly person should just be like, yeah, they didn't have to have all that in there,

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I wish they didn't put that all in there. And your soul would be more repelled by it than that was, like, the selling point for you, or something like that.

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So I think, so I think as I've gotten, you know, older and more sensitive to those kind of things, without saying, like, where the line is of when it transitions, like, if you love violence,

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I would say that's sin, and if you're watching, you know, movies filled with gratuitous violence and you're getting a thrill out of it, that's sin, right?

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But then I can imagine a scenario where someone watches a movie with too much gratuitous violence in it, and they're repelled by it, and I would say that would be kind of the right reaction.

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And then you may reevaluate, like, should I be, you know, even going, like, pay more attention to the ratings on these kind of things, or something like that.

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So, essentially, it sounds like what you're saying, if I could kind of sum it up, is, you know, it's,

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I don't think that we can outright say, you know, it's a sin to watch a movie that has a ton of gratuitous violence in it, but if you're the kind of person who watches the movie and, like, you're attracted to it, then there might be, like, a deeper issue on under, you know, going on in all of this that you really need to investigate, like, essentially saying, like, this is kind of a red flag for a

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Christian, in your mind. Yeah, I mean, I think with a horror movie, I would say, like,

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Christians should be watching, you know, like, hacker, slasher, horror movies, or things like that, you know, to where, like, if you had, like, a genre that's kind of devoted to gratuitous violence, and it's, like, a definable genre, you know what you're dealing with, does that make sense?

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Yeah, yeah. Like, in that kind of thing, like, just, uh, like, that's a staple of the genre.

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Saul, or something, you know, I've never watched, but then I know what that genre is, and, you know,

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Freddy, Jason, and all that stuff, like, it's just like, no thanks, like, I'm good, you know? So, I mean, maybe, like, at that level, like, uh, it's very clear, but then there may be other, like, um, movies that are just, like, have a lot more violence in them, and I think people should, you know, do their due diligence more than just ask first and watch later, but generally speaking,

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I think, you know, the, you know, my wife and I were watching a show recently, and, um, you know, it's just, like, so much violence in it, and I'm just, you know, at some point, we're just like, let's just, we're done, we don't need it, you know?

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There's no, there's nothing good about this, you know, it's just too much, you know? So, I think in general that should be the

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Christian's reaction. Like, if you're not a person glorying, like, who loves violence, you're not glorying in it, like, you should be, kind of, repelled by it in general, and, um, you know,

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I mean, I can think of examples of, like, even, you know, more recent games like that, where it's just like, whoa, what in the world, you know,

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I've seen people play it, it's just like, kind of a shocking level of violence that you should be more sensitized to than what we think.

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And I do think you can get desensitized to violence to where it doesn't even faze you anymore, but then

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I think it's probably overblown where that'll lead, you know, to, yeah, in those kind of ways, but, yeah.

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Okay, okay, fair enough. This has been another episode of Bible Bashed.

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