September 1, 2017 Show with David J. Engelsma on “The Gospel Truth of Justification: Proclaimed, Defended, Developed”

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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This is Chris Arns and your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this first day of

September 2017.

I'm so delighted and honored that we have a returning guest today

who has really become one of my favorite guests to interview.

His name is David J. Engelsma, and he is an author.

He's a professor of dogmatics and Old Testament studies for 20 years at Protestant Reform

Seminary in Granville, Michigan, and emeritus professor since the Synod of

2008.

He's the editor of the Standard Bearer magazine between 1988 and 2002, and

a lecturer and preacher touring in North America and throughout the British Isles on

behalf of the British Reformed Fellowship, which is devoted to spread and defend

the Reformed faith in the United Kingdom.

Today, Professor David J. Engelsma is going to be addressing his new book, hot off the

press, The Gospel Truth of Justification, Proclaimed, Defended, and Developed.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Professor David J. Engelsma.

It's good to be back with you and to have a part in your important witness.

Well, I also might add that the Reformed Witness Hour, which is one of the

oldest radio programs, one of the oldest Christian radio programs still airing

on the radio, this Reformed Witness Hour program is actually

a client of mine.

I have them placed on one station out on Long Island, New York, WLIE

540 AM in Ronkonkoma, Long Island, New York, which actually reaches the entire tri -state

area of New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut, and even gets into parts of Rhode

Island and Massachusetts and Pennsylvania.

So it's got quite a coverage.

And they air every Sunday morning on WLIE.

And do you have anything further to say about the Reformed Witness Hour?

Dr. Professor Engelsma, anything further to say about the Reformed.

Witness Hour?

The

Reformed

Witness Hour has been a compromising

way.

He was also for three years in the

seminary.

I had steam that man.

Yes, it's, I believe, at least 75 years of

continual.

Broadcasting for the Reformed Witness Hour.

If anybody wants to get more information on that program, you can go to reformedwitnesshour

.org, reformedwitnesshour .org.

I just have to read, I know some people are going to accuse me of bragging, but I have to read your

commendation for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, since it's one of the most wonderful

commendations I have ever received.

I rank your commendation up there with some of the more notable names,

such as R .C. Sproul and John MacArthur and others.

But your commendation says, a good interview, in my judgment, demands questions

that enable one to speak about various aspects of the Christian and Reformed

gospel of salvation by the grace of God and Jesus Christ, its content and its history, as

well as the calling of true churches and faithful witnesses in our day to contend for it.

For such an interview, an interviewer is required, who is required, who both knows the gospel of

grace, its content, history, and present struggles, and loves this gospel of sovereign grace.

The questions have to be knowing, pointed, and substantial.

These demands are met by Chris Arnzen and the program Iron Sharpens Iron.

I admit that until I became aware of Chris and his program, it never entered my mind that

such a program and such a radio host existed or could exist in our

godless and religiously bland age.

And then, with such a large, far -flung audience, interviews are discussions about the Word of

God, including the history of its making, its way in the world, with a fellow believer, an

exacting, discerning fellow believer, but a friend in Christ, Jesus.

The main thing is that the Word of God goes out into the world, and that was, as I said, Professor

David J. Engelsma, Professor of Theology Emeritus, retired at Protestant Reform Seminary

in Granville, Michigan.

I really thank you from the bottom of my heart for that wonderful commendation, which I am honored, I was

honored to have my webmaster post on our website, and

it touches me beyond words, brother, and I really appreciate it.

Well, this book that you have written, The Gospel Truth of Justification, Proclaimed, Defended, and

Developed, there are other books, as you well know, both from the past

and the present by both great heroes of the faith and

contemporary brethren in Christ who have written on this issue of justification.

What was lacking in these volumes that you believe required a new book.

On The Gospel Truth of Justification?

I began writing the idea

that I regard to be

upon the gospel of grace recovered by the Reformation,

nation

by faith alone, going on at the

present.

There's a movement known

as the Federal

Vision in North America, a

movement known

and

there

is an

ecumenical

movement

going on

together, nation

by

faith alone.

The conviction

in

me

that...

Yeah, well,

this

is

quite

a

massive

volume

that you

have

written

here.

It's

528 pages,.

And I already know that we're going to have to have you back, God willing, at least a couple more

times, hopefully even within Reformation month in

October, to deal with some of the aspects of what you've

written that we will not have time to address today just because of the sheer volume of

what you have written here.

And I thank you for taking such time and effort into writing such a large

volume on such a vital topic, a topic that sadly seems to

be not near the top of the ladder of importance, even

amongst some who profess to be theologically Reformed today.

In fact, J. I. Packer, who is a hero to many, whose books, many

of his books are absolutely superb, and then you cannot help but be baffled that

he would have an ecumenical mindset with the Church of Rome, which would in

reality be in stark contrast, 180 degrees contrast, to much of the

core things that he writes about.

It doesn't make any sense to me.

That you have

just mentioned

concerning

that I know

of, if

we

are not

in the period

that 2 Thessalonians 2 refers to as the great falling away that precedes the coming of

the Antichrist, we

are

in a

period

of Rome

since

the time

of the rest.

Packer's formulation of the

gospel for

the

fact is

we

are

not

alone.

The

adoration of

the Virgin would minimize the importance

of...

Yes, I

believe that from what I recall, when

the Evangelicals and.

Catholics Together document first came out, which was quite a while ago, I believe it was in the

1880s, but I can remember that some of Dr. Packer's friends,

I believe Michael Horton and R .C. Sproul and some others who

had shared with him their serious disagreement with him over

his ecumenical action in signing this document.

I believe that he had some kind of a retraction to what he did, but then wound up signing

the sequel document of the Evangelicals and Catholics Together anyway.

The whole matter was totally baffling to me, and still is.

Well, I think it might be wise for us to start off with a definition of

justification because the word is used in different ways in the

scriptures.

As you very well know, there are some who will run to the book of James, James's

epistle, and refer to James's use of the word justification

that is not by faith alone, and it must be therefore a different kind of a justification other than the justification

that God, in his grace and mercy, provides for

his people on the basis of faith alone.

But if.

You could please define justification and its different uses.

A simple definition of justification as taught

by the

apostle

century.

Now,

as

I

said

earlier,

the

Roman

Catholics

and

perhaps

some

of.

The cults and others that deny the Reformation principle or watchword of

sola fide, that we are justified by faith alone or by grace alone through faith

alone, they will refer to James chapter 2 verse 24.

You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

What on earth is James.

Talking about there?

Or what did he write about there?

I have

an entire

chapter

of a living

man, living woman, or

most of them

are hopeless anyway, but I'm writing

upon

their own works.

The

Bible

is the

one harmonious word of

humans and

Galatians, a

completely

different

aspect

talking

about

the

demonstration

of

justification.

Even

the

and

James

shows what

they're talking about.

It says, show me your faith without your works.

Show me, demonstrate that.

It can't be done.

And only demonstrate

by the works that are

showing by

our works

and

of

exactly

that.

They're

not

different

kinds

of

justice.

Yes.

Well,

just

like.

In, you have in first Timothy 2 15, the

King James version of the Bible says, notwithstanding, she, the woman

shall be saved in childbearing.

If they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety, obviously even

the church of Rome does not believe that women are saved spiritually

or made worthy of heaven because they have babies.

This is obviously a different kind of salvation or saving that is being referred to here.

This is basically the same.

Thing that's going on with the term justification that you are referring to.

Correct.

And we're.

Actually going to our first break right now.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for professor David J. Engelsma, our email

address is chrizarnsen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of

residence.

If you live outside of the good old USA and please only remain anonymous.

If you are asking about a personal and private matter, suppose, let's say that you

disagree with your own pastor on this issue or your own spouse or something, and you'd rather not draw attention

to yourself publicly.

We understand that.

But otherwise, please give us at least your first name, city and state and country of residence.

Well, don't go away.

God willing, we will be right back after these messages with David J. Engelsma and our discussion

on justification.

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a pastor.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned into the program today, our guest today for the full two hours, with just about

90 minutes to go, is Professor David J. Engelsma, who is the author of

Gospel Truth of Justification, Proclaimed, Defended, and Developed, a

525 -page work published by the Reformed Free Publishing Association.

And if you'd like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R

-N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

And please give us, as always, your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the USA, and only

remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private question.

We already have a number of folks eagerly waiting to have their questions asked and answered, but before I get

to them, I just wanted you to make a couple of clarifications, Professor Engelsma.

The doctrine of justification by faith alone has been abused

by those who profess to be Protestant or evangelicals, and it has

also been distorted, twisted, and slandered and caricatured by the Church of Rome.

You have, on the one hand, evangelicals who will say, well, yeah, I believe it's very

true, in fact, it's a core essential truth of Christian theology that we are

justified by faith alone, and therefore all I need to do is respond

to an invitation at either a worship service or some kind of a

revival meeting or a gathering of Christians who are there worshiping and

hearing the word preached.

All I need to do is respond to an invitation, recite a prayer, welcome Jesus into my heart,

and therefore no matter how I live for the rest of my life, I could immediately walk out of that

meeting, that worship service, and continue on in my life just as I lived

before going to that meeting and could live like the devil himself for decades until I die, but I

have nothing to fear because I will be going to heaven.

That's the one extreme of the heresy of easy believism or cheap grace

that exists amongst evangelicals.

If you could respond how the doctrine of justification by faith alone has nothing

to do with that heresy that I just mentioned.

Say and respond to demonic

speech on the

part of

those in or walking to or any such

creed.

Acknowledge

as Christ

to

the

abuse of justification.

It mustn't

surprise

us that

imagined or recognized that that

setting forth

imaginary responder

that grace

may like

the devil.

Oh my, people are going to abuse this doctrine, retrench

and modify 8

and

9.

So he doubles down

and then

bond

that

unite and

resisting

that.

Yes, that

would be

involved

in

the

perseverance.

And preservation of the saints, would it not?

One of the cardinal doctrines of reformed theology.

That's correct.

When Jesus begins a good work in us, he finishes it.

Now, before I go on to the Roman counterpart or the other opposite

enemy of the the true doctrine of justification by faith alone,

there is some confusion that may arise from that phrase justification by

faith alone because people may actually believe that something that man

conjures up in his heart and mind, meaning or being faith, that

faith is saving them when we who are reformed believe that God is the one

who saves.

God alone saves us.

The blood of Christ shed on Calvary is the only way that we can be saved.

So how can we kind of do damage control here

about the confusion that may arise because of that language.

That we use a justification by faith alone?

Paul preaches justification by means of faith

and

that

is a

means

or instrument through which is Christ

and a

misunderstanding and no preacher or teacher of the gospel are

many.

And the

Armenians

meaning of salvation by the activity

of

believing

is not instead of

penalty the

law of God that the just God demands of us

faith is

the

standing ought to be by means of that.

And then we have

the church of Rome who says.

Well your concept of justification is no more than a legal fiction

it is fairy tales it's it's God actually

demonstrating a lack of justice because he is pretending that we

who come before his throne just because we have believed in him are just as holy as

Christ as it has been attributed to Luther.

That justification is like a mountain of dung

covered with snow although I've heard that there is no clear proof that

Luther wrote that so I'm not sure if that is a genuine analogy that Luther gave

or not but they will just they will just mock this idea saying that that there is no

true reason that God is inviting us into

eternal glory with him other than some kind of a of a

false.

Declaration that we are just as good as Jesus.

I have never come across that vivid saying in Luther attributed to him

about a mountain of dung.

He was one of the most exposed

and I

wouldn't accept it.

With regard to that matter of Rome's charge of a legal fiction that is a common

Rome betrays egregious

charge against

justification

by faith alone Rome

acknowledges

that the

only

righteousness own good works.

When Romans says

Christ

obeyed

the law of God perfectly he obeyed it for

his enduring and

suffering.

That penalty and punishment for

us

paid

in any respect

and as

much action in

the matter of going to find

that out

at the

moment

a great judgment

holy God

to claim that.

Now of course you will have many Roman Catholics say well thank goodness.

I don't trust in my own righteousness to get into heaven because I'm also trusting in the righteousness of Mary and the

saints and all that righteousness there for me and the uh treasury of merit

and of and uh therefore it's not just my righteousness but but when you mingle any human's

righteousness whether living or dead whether saint or sinner any uh any of the

righteousness of mankind cannot be mingled with Christ's perfect act of of

redemption.

On Calvary.

Am I right.

That's correct.

The obedience of Mary appointed Mary to

be the Corinthians.

One teaches that Christ is as Christ alone

appointed him.

He was uniquely qualified because he was God and man in one person

perfectly holy not himself

by God.

And we have

a

listener in eastern Suffolk.

County Long Island named Ronald and Ronald asks

cannot a person believe in the true biblical facts

about Jesus Christ and even theologically in his gospel

and yet still be damned.

Far as

I know has

recognized

yes

uh that

is

typically

called

uh

mental

assent.

Where people you could have a theologian he might even be a brilliant liberal

theologian who is honest enough uh to explain the

data of the bible in the way that it was intended to be

received and he may accurately define what the bible teaches about all kinds of

doctrines including the the doctrine of God the doctrine of man and the gospel and so on.

But this person could be as dead as a doornail he could be as lost as could be but he's just a brilliant

man.

Who who knows the scriptures by heart and knows what they teach.

That's the kind of person that I think your questioner had in.

Yeah.

And then we have uh

in the very terrifying warning in.

Matthew chapter 7 where you know you're going to have people uh

totally baffled on the day of judgment.

Why they are being condemned.

Because they've performed all kinds of exorcisms and works and miracles in the name of Christ.

And yet Christ still says uh be gone.

You workers of righteousness.

I never knew you.

Yes well we have to go to a break right now.

This is our midway break.

It's a bit longer than our normal breaks because we have to uh keep in the format that Grace Life

Radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City Florida requires of us to have two 54

-minute segments for the show.

So we hope that you are patient while we take this uh rather elongated break.

But if you could if you intend to write in questions write them in now.

Send them in now to chrisarnsen at gmail .com c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail

.com and we'll get to as many of you as we can as many as time will permit.

And uh we look forward to hearing from you and your questions.

For professor David J Engelsma right after these messages.

So please don't go away.

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I'm pastor bill shishko inviting you to tune into a visit to the pastor's study every saturday from

12 noon to 1 p .m eastern time on wlie radio www

.wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively useful and i assure you never dull.

Join us this saturday at 12 noon eastern time for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs

a pastor.

Welcome back.

This is chris arms.

And if.

You just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with about an hour to go

is professor david j engelsma and we are discussing his book

gospel truth of justification proclaimed defended developed a publication

of a reformation free i'm sorry reformed free publishing.

And uh if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com

chris arnzen at gmail .com chris arnzen at gmail .com if you have a

question for professor angles ma regarding this topic and please only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and

private matter but otherwise give us your first name at least city and state and country of residence.

Before i return to our discussion there are just a couple of or a few i should say

uh important announcements regarding special events that we need to announce.

The word of truth church of farmingville long island new york in cooperation with the long island spurgeon

fellowship present the gospel of the reformation a 500th anniversary celebration

featuring keynote speaker dr tony costa of toronto baptist seminary.

This will be held on friday september 29th and saturday september 30th.

If you would like to attend this celebration go to wot church .com

wot standing for word of truth church .com wot church .com

or call 631 -806 -0614 631 -806 -0614.

The very following day on sunday october 1st dr tony costa will

also be speaking at hope reformed baptist church of medford long island new york.

If you would like to attend that sunday morning worship service at 11 go to hope reformed

li .net for more details hope reformed li for long island .net.

Or you can call 631 -696 -5711 631 -696

-5711.

Following that we have coming up in november from the 17th through the 18th

the alliance of confessing evangelicals is holding their annual quaker town conference on reform

theology at the grace bible fellowship church in quaker town pennsylvania.

The theme is for still our ancient foe obviously a reference to satan from that classic

reformation hymn by martin luther a mighty fortress.

And the speakers include kent hughes peter jones tom nettles dennis cahill and scott oliphant.

If you would like to register for this conference go to alliancenet .org

alliancenet .org click on events and then click on quaker town conference on reform theology

and i plan to be there with an iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth.

So i hope to see you there.

And then uh coming up in january from the 17th through the 20th the g3

conference returns to atlanta georgia.

I intend to be there as well with an iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth god willing.

And the theme is knowing god a biblical understanding of discipleship.

And speakers include stephen lawson vody baucom phil johnson keith getty hb charles jr tim

challis josh bice james white tom askell anthony methenia michael kruger david miller paul

tripp todd friel derrick thomas and martha peace.

If you'd like to register for the g3 conference go to g3conference .com g3conference .com.

And if you're registering for any of these events or just finding out more information about them please

always tell the churches or ministries running these events that you heard about those activities from

chris arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio.

And last but not least comes my most uncomfortable time of the program and that is to beg you for money.

Uh the advertisers that keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air uh

have urged me for a long time to make daily public appeals for donations

because of the urgent need for them i finally acquiesced a couple of months ago and caved in and

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If you are blessed above and beyond your ability to provide for your church as you

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and supporting that church financially.

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sharpens iron radio.

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I don't even know if we could remain on the air for another six months to tell you the truth.

But if you'd like to advertise with us as well send me an email to chris arnzen at gmail .com chris

arnzen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

And if whatever it is you want to promote is compatible with the theology expressed on iron sharpens iron radio

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I would love to speak with you about an advertising campaign as soon as possible.

In fact i would be most grateful to god and to you for this assistance.

Well now we are back to our discussion with the professor david j engelsma

on the gospel truth of justification proclaimed defended and developed.

This is also a 525 page book by professor engelsma

published by reformed free publishing association and i forgot to mention before we went to the

break to ronald in eastern suffolk county.

You have won a free copy of the gospel truth of justification.

So please make sure that you give to us your full mailing address so we can have cumberland valley

bible book service ship that out to you.

Cvbbs .com is the website of cumberland valley bible book service.

And we thank them for their faithful support of iron sharpens iron radio and for mailing out all the winners in our audience

free copies of bibles and books and dvds and cds and other things that we give away

to those submitting questions to our guests uh i'm going to go to some other

uh oh before i go to the questions uh professor engelsma i just wanted to make sure that we uh included

in our publicizing uh special events the event that you are going to be speaking at

at the covenant protestant reform church in northern ireland.

Could you tell us something.

About that

there is a

sound congregation in

bellamina not only but throughout

europe.

That congregation is formation

the end

of october 21 to

ask me to lecture twice a conference

one will be a speech

determined

to glorify

god and

all that

connection.

He made a

lovely

statement.

I can't help.

Uh mentioning here he

could gain heaven he

would not do that

from the glory of god and on the other hand john

calvin taught the

glory.

If anybody

wants more

information they

can go to.

Cprf .co .uk that's cprf standing for covenant protestant reform

church.

Uh cprf i'm actually not sure why there's an f there.

Cprf is in frank .co .uk and you'll have all the information you need about that

congregation holding the conference.

All right.

Let me go to some of our other emails that we have from listeners right now.

And uh anybody else uh desiring to join us on the air can also just send it in or as soon as

possible to chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

And uh give us your first name city and state and country of residence.

We have uh chris in runnels iowa.

Thank you for having dr engelsma.

Actually you corrected me once before.

You're not a doctor.

But we'll call you professor.

Thank you for having professor angles on today to discuss this important topic of justification.

I am curious if he could address whether or to what extent a

total lack of teaching on justification by faith alone for the past many years has

opened up the church to these many errors on justification.

For example very few christians could explain the difference between justification by faith alone and being

justified on account of faith.

Thank you professor engelsma for writing this book.

And as always chris for an.

Show chris points out a

reason for the apostasy.

Much less

i agree with

his observer

for years now

upon

himself

and he

owes

the mark of

a truth

among

other

truths.

Well thank

you

uh chris.

In runnels iowa please make sure that we have your full mailing address.

Because you have also won a free copy of gospel truth of justification proclaimed

defended and developed.

Uh compliments of the reform free publishing association and also compliments of carmelin valley

bible book service cv for carmelin valley bbs for biblebookservice .com cv

bbs .com.

We'll be shipping that out to you.

And please keep spreading the word about iron sharpens iron radio.

Uh there in iowa and beyond uh we have uh a question

from let's see uh joe and i have to enlarge

joe's uh email because it's microscopic uh

joe's uh question from clifton new jersey.

And as i uh enlarge this email i'll once again repeat our email address.

For anybody else it is chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at

gmail .com.

And always please give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the usa.

Okay we have joe and clifton new jersey.

Uh dear again dr engelsma.

Thank you for your stand for the truth of justification by faith alone in the midst of of age

-old errors that again and again resurface.

My question regards discernment.

The lack of discernment in the church in our day is often astounding to me.

We know that god is sovereign over the ability to hear and receive truth and yet we

tend to think of unbelievers when considering that truth.

But can you share your view of lack of discernment among professing believers.

Is what we are seeing primarily an indication of the rarity of true regeneration.

Or is it that in god's providence there actually is a significant part of the true church that lacks

discernment.

Or should we think about such glaring lack of discernment among press professing believers.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on

this.

What my mind and in my judgment is

frightening

in nature.

First of all demand

it

from including

their own.

The bible

does speak

of apostasy there

was

supposed to

beginning of the book of revelation makes plain enough

speaking now in tell

the

time of

the referencing

protestant churches

and

christians from

the time

of the

100th

anniversary

all about and

of

justification

by faith

alone

over

grave

danger

of.

Well

thank you.

Joey in clifton new jersey.

And please make sure we have your full mailing address because you have also won a free copy of gospel

truth of justification published by the reformed free publishing association

and that will be shipped out to you by our friends at carmel and valley bible book service.

So please make sure that you give us your full mailing address and keep an eye open for a package in the mail with a

return address on the shipping label that says cv bbs .com cv for carmel and valley

bbs for bible book service .com.

We have a questioner from jenny in ben salem pennsylvania.

And you've already addressed this to to a degree but maybe you can elaborate on this.

Jenny asks.

I am alarmed concerning nt wright's new definition new definition of

justification in his new perspective on paul theory.

As far as i am concerned it's heresy.

Would you briefly tell the listening audience what is his new definition of justification and

why his view is closer to roman catholicism than protestantism which defeats the

reason for.

The

reformation

apology a

doctrine that radically

justification

justification according to right

saving act the

guilty

sinner

and

by

the

name of

san

king

of justification

that

means

in

jesus

and now to follow all

of us

according to

the nppification

and

therefore

ecumenical to

undo

the reformation.

Reformation

was

an unfortunately

standing of justification.

Nt wright

rather

than being regarded

as a

fundamental

gospel

i

give

more

explanation

in our or

should

fought

for to the doctrine of

predestination he concentrated on paul's

doctrine of

legally a member

of at

the

end of the hour and a

half in the book of

rome and

gave the man

a rusking.

What

has

happened

in

canada.

Well we're going to our final break right now.

And by the way thank you jenny and ben salem pennsylvania.

Make sure we get your full mailing address.

Because you've also won a copy of gospel truth of justification proclaimed defended developed

by professor david j engelsma compliments of our friends at reform free publishing

association and compliments of our friends at cumberland valley bible book service.

We'll actually be shipping that out to you free of charge to you and to iron sharpens iron.

So we look forward to getting your full mailing address and having cvbbs .com ship that out to you.

We're going to our final break right now.

If anybody else would like to join us now is the time to do it before we run out of time.

That's.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

C -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with the final segment of our interview with professor david j engelsma.

Right after these messages i am chris arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio.

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Welcome back.

This is chris arnzen.

If you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with just about 20 minutes to go

has been and will continue to be david j engelsma author of the book gospel truth of

justification proclaimed defended developed published by reformed free publishing

association.

And if you'd like to join us with a question of your own do it now.

Because we're rapidly running out of time our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com and professor engelsma we have a question from

cj in lindenhurst long island new york who says.

I was of the understanding that among nt rights heresies involving

justification is that he believed that the primary sin of the judaizers was not that

they were adding works to faith for justification but that they were making the church into an exclusive

jewish club.

Now i know that the the bigotry of the judaizers is definitely an element of their

sin and that they were trying to make the church exclusively jewish through

enforcement of circumcision.

But is this really what the the meaning of the judaizers intended.

Your

questionnaire

is

correct

against

the

that

connection

to

but

not

refer.

Paul

makes

play

well.

Thank you cj.

Uh you have also won a free copy of gospel truth of justification by our guest david j

engelsma so make sure that we get your full mailing address so that carmelin valley bible book service

can ship that out to you.

And we thank uh reformed free publishing association again for giving us these books that we have be have been

giving away free of charge to both you and to us at iron sharpens iron radio.

Uh we have uh the final winner right now of a book.

We have daniel in san jose california.

He's asked a bunch of quetch a bunch of questions but i'm going to limit it to one because of

the fact that we're rapidly running out of time.

Uh daniel's last question is if pastors rarely do not

preach.

Wait i'm sorry let me rephrase that if pastors rarely or do not preach

justification by faith alone could that fall under the category of what paul was

condemning in galatians one.

No gospel at all.

I'm assuming i don't know this for certain.

But i'm assuming daniel means that even if they weren't preaching uh

that we are saved by faith and works.

I'm assuming daniel means that just the the absence of teaching the truth like you.

You could perhaps believe in a biblically sound biblically orthodox

reformational uh doctrine of justification by faith alone.

But you never preach it.

If you know you could be just be preaching about a whole bunch of other things but never this issue.

I'm assuming that's what daniel may have meant to include in his question.

But i don't know.

But if you could answer that.

Such is the centrality and fundamental nature

truth of justification by faith that if a minute

by faith alone in one way or another in

he isn't preaching christ and he isn't preaching the gospel of

salvation by the

grace

of god's gospel

worldwide.

That today widely

in north america

fundamental claimed in the stead

of proclaiming the forgiveness of sins that

after all

standing with god so that we can look him in the face in

jesus christ and be confident

that did children nation by

faith alone isn't preached.

Something will be preached and that will be the lie.

It's one or the other

it's seen

the glory of god.

We're justified

by means of

image

of the apostle.

How in the world can.

Well thank

you daniel.

Make sure

we have your full

mailing address

in san.

Diego california.

Because you have won the final copy that we're giving away today of gospel truth of justification proclaimed defended.

Developed by david j engelsma.

Published by reform free publishing association.

Thank you so much for contributing an excellent question and continue spreading the word about our program in san diego

california and beyond.

We have a question from timothy in grand rapids michigan.

If works even our works of faith are not a part of our righteousness.

How does one explain galatians 3 6 where it states that abraham's belief was

accounted to him.

For righteousness.

Very good question it is.

The meaning of that of the book of galatians

is not that

owing god and counted by god for

our

sins

which god's justice demands.

Believing does not perfect but demands

object on

the

promise.

And as

much

as.

Thank you

timothy keep

spreading.

The word about iron sharpens iron radio there in grand rapids michigan and beyond.

We also have a pastor sterling vanderwerker of shepherd's fellowship in greensboro north

carolina who asks what if anything is lost by the blurring of the

details of active and passive obedience.

Of jesus christ i mentioned active and passive obedience that's a

theological discurrency and reformed in presbyterian theological

circles.

I don't think the bible ever in

romans 5 simply speaks of

the one

whole

reality of

the

obedience

is

meant

that

the

active will

give their

denial that

we ourselves church

of jesus

christ.

You know i i would

love to

at some

point

in the

future

have.

A debate on iron sharpens iron radio with a representative of the federal vision and and someone who

opposes their views.

So i would appreciate our listeners praying about something like that coming to fruition.

Um thank you by the way pastor sterling vanderwerker.

And keep listening to iron sharpens iron radio and keep spreading the word about it in north carolina and beyond.

Going back to the church of rome.

If they were to dismiss the reformation doctrine of justification by faith

alone or the imputed righteousness of christ the forensic imputed righteousness of christ is

merely a legal fiction.

If they were going to be consistent they would have to also claim that the imputations the imputation of

our sins to christ on calvary uh christ our sin bearer who

received the wrath of the father in in in our stead as his

people as his elect.

They would have to also if they were going to be consistent deny that as a legal.

Fiction

shouldn't

they.

That's exactly correct.

Great point.

Well we are

out of time

and i

want.

To make sure that all of your contact information is given to

our audience again first of all don't forget that

you can order this book that we have been discussing for the last two hours gospel truth of

justification proclaimed defended developed by professor david j engelsman.

You can order it from reformed free publishing association and their website is

rf as in free rfpa for

publishing association.

So it's rfpa reform free publishing association .org rfpa .org.

And do you have any other contact information that you care to give professor engelsman.

Do you.

Have any other

contact information.

No but i

would like to take

this.

I really appreciate that very.

Very much.

And uh don't forget you could also order any book uh that is mentioned on iron trip and zion radio from

cumberland.

Valley bible book service cv bbs .com cv for crumlin valley bbs for bible book

service .com.

I want to thank you so much uh professor engelsman for being on the show today.

If you could hold on the line i would like to schedule a couple of more interviews with you if you don't mind.

And i want to thank uh the reverend buzz taylor for being my my studio co -host today.

And i want to thank everybody who listened especially those who took the time to write in questions.

I hope you all have a safe and blessed and god glorifying weekend and lord's day.

And i hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that jesus christ is a far greater savior

than you are a sinner.