September 20, 2016 Show with Tim Bayly on “Daddy Tried: Overcoming the Failures of Fatherhood” PLUS Stephen Baker on “Church-Based Pastoral Training: Its Method & Advantages”

Iron Sharpens Iron Introduction and the Meaning of “Iron Sharpens Iron”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. Now here's our host Chris.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. Who are listening via live streaming? This is Chris Arns and your host of iron sharpens iron. Wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 20th day of September 2016 and I am delighted for two reasons today I have a guest on for the very first time on iron sharpens iron.

And I also have a co-host that I've never had in studio with me before today. So it is a double blessing for me today. We have today as our guest our first guest for the first hour Tim Bailey who is an author and he is the senior pastor of Clear Note Church in Bloomington, Indiana, and we are going to be discussing his book daddy tried Overcoming the failures of fatherhood and it's a my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to iron sharpens iron Tim Bailey.

It's my pleasure and we'll be getting to know more about Clear Note Church in a minute, but first I want to introduce to you my co-host today Pastor Jeff Waddington who is the stated supply at Knox Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Lansdowne Pennsylvania and we're gonna hear more about what exactly a stated supply is for those of you who are not Presbyterian he is also a part of a couple of podcasts Christ the center and east of Eden, which is a part of the reformed forum he also writes for our 21 place for truth and the Westminster Theological Journal.

And it's my honor and privilege to have you in studio as my co-host for the very first time pastor Jeff Waddington.

Oh, thank you Chris for for having me join in on in this conversation with pastor Bailey on Significant topic but also to be in this lovely historical.

Home and studio. Yes for those of you listening who do have no clue what pastor Jeff is speaking about. As you may hear if you listen carefully enough at the opening announcement of my program every day this broadcast is coming live from the historical 19th century parsonage of George Norcross who was the very first pastor of second Presbyterian Church here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania which was founded in the late 1800s and Pastor Norcross remained as the pastor in in this town of second Presbyterian until the early 1900s and He was a bulwark of biblical inerrancy and a strong conservative Presbyterian pastor in a day when liberalism was beginning to rear its ugly head and and Perhaps at some point during the interview today.

I'll read you a quote by him, which is a pretty profound That he it was a part of a book that he co-authored. It was a book that came out During an anniversary of the church. And he had a conference on New Year's Eve and This was actually I think it was New Year's Day the first Sunday of 1899 and he had a number of pastors preach at this conference and he was one of them and it's a profound quote that I will Read to you where he's basically warning of about liberals creeping into the church and denying the inerrancy of the scriptures and so on and unfortunately much of the denomination that took over that congregation that he pastored has Been among the leaders of teaching the that these scriptures are not in early, right and Denying many of the things that George Norcross would have stood for.

Clear Note Church, Warhorn Media, and the Book “Daddy Tried”

But but we'll go back back to you in a minute Jeff. But first of all, I want pastor Tim Bailey to tell us something about clear note church in Bloomington, Indiana.

Clear note churches. An unusual church, which pastor Jeff might.

We.

When we started I had been in the PC USA for a number of years after graduating from Gordon Conwell. And then our church had left and gone into the PCA and when I came to Bloomington I took a church that used to be in the UPC USA and in any way Presbyterian had rejected going into the PCA and.

That church had godly Baptists and godly Presbyterians. It was a sweet mix and when this church started it just seemed inconceivable to tell. They would not be able to be elders or deacons in the church.

So from the beginning we have allowed an exception on time and mode of baptism. Where Westminster standards all our bylaws and everything are typical reformed the preliminary principles going back to the? 1700s all that stuff is the same, but we do allow freedom of conscience and time and mode of baptism and the more officers and so.

That's probably the thing that's most distinctive. Our ministry has always been Trying to have a mix of people that work with their hands for a living and people that work with their brains. Being in a university community.

It's a sweet group of people and I'd say probably we have about in one-third crater. Mostly young people. We have about a hundred kids under the age of five or six.

Well give my greetings to the one-third. That a credo. And for those of you interested in finding out more about clear note church you can go to clear note Bloomington calm clear note Bloomington calm and you got to explain clear.

No, where did that come from the name?

Or Anglican and It just got difficult to. There were some other reasons and so we decided to change and there's a lot of discussion about what name to come up with. And we ended up choosing clear note because of the Apostle Paul talking about it.

The war horn doesn't sound a clear note who will prepare for battle. It seems like today in the church and I would say Just as much in the Reformed Church as any other part of the church. Instead of contextualization causing us to shirt of God it causes us to doll it and clear note because there's no question that today a battle for the church and.

Which reminds me that you are in some way involved in war horn media. War Horn media and their website is war horn media. Calm. Tell us something about that.

150 songs to music. We have tremendous musicians here. I use the biggest and one of the best music schools in the country and. So we've always had a wonderful blessing of top-flight musicians. So part of the media is kind of resources for church musicians where and it's it's if you go on the web and you search for Song book thing a musician needs to use the music settings of all the historic hymns.

That's that's part of the media. Another part of the media are books. We've for instance did a critical edition a new edition of what I consider to be in church history called persecution near the 20th century and.

It's the perfect book to read to understand what's going on in America today. Because what's going on in America is identical to what went on between the church being anarchists and and and atheists. And so that's.

And then my dad's books might. I don't know if neither of you men have ever heard of dad. But he wrote a number of books. One was a satire about evangelical evangelism called the gospel blimp. It got made into a movie.

Yes, that he has an excellent book on death a book of poetry and. So there are a number of books that we publish.

And so that's the reason for media great. Well, we have to have you interviewed on some of those books and if any of the authors are living you can Send them our way and we'll get them on the show and Again, that is war horn media .com war horn media .com.

And by the way Jody Killingsworth is going to be our guest tomorrow on the second half of the program. In fact Pastor Tim Bailey is going to be on again tomorrow. As well for the first hour and Jody Killingsworth Who is in a group that is a part of Clear Note Church, and I love the name of this group my soul among lions.

No, I love it and and I just love their version of why do the nation's rage.

But.

Also To what why don't you just give our listeners a brief Taste of what you'll be speaking on tomorrow.

Father Hunger, the Fall, and Why Tim Bayly Wrote the Book

Well for the last couple of months over the son and the relationship of the Father Son and Holy Spirit it's focused on the relationship of the Son and the Father and the debate comes down to whether or not the father and sons relationship has any hierarchy or any asymmetry Christ's Incarnate state and I'm stating it very precisely.

Years ago this argument began to be made by feminists. It wasn't it wasn't made by Complimentary instructed to be made. And if you're like Roger Nicole He was my professor and a dear dear friend mother a dear father to me and my brothers who went through seminary.

But dr. Nicole when when I was at seminary, dr. Nicole. Was it in favor of women pastors and elders? Then he went to reform down in Orlando and while he was Reformed but he always thought that Gordon Conway always argued for the headship of the husband and the father in the home.

Well when he went to reformed in Orlando, he repudiated the headship of the father in the home really in marriage.

Really and.

Yes, absolutely. No question about it. I was very close to him personally and What he then began to say was that. And he wasn't the only feminist to say it but they began to call into question the relationship of the son and the father that there was relationship.

Economically, and you know, we can get in tomorrow to the various words. But what was going on is always have authority at the heart of feminism of the date over homosexuality it really does come back and of his words and The reason that they attack of the son to the father except in his incarnate state there isn't authority, right?

And so it was a concession that God made in order for his son to do the work of redemption. But that from all eternity there's never been any hierarchy and you know. You can you can step on a minefield and trying to discuss what scripture actually says and using any words other than what scripture uses because then.

You know, you might overstate it you might understate it but dr Nicole began to say that those people who said that there was an order in the relationship of the Father Son and Holy Spirit the transcended Jesus incarnate state were heretics that they were subordination us and.

That it was a heresy. It's not a heresy. If you go back and read the early church fathers if you read church histories. It's a bunch of bombast by this or not in short supply of bombast. It turned into a real bath people were involved in the battle and kind of broke down into a battle between Philadelphia Presbyterians and Louisville back and so that's what we're going to talk about tomorrow is to what degree is it accurate to say that there is a Symmetry that there is order in the Trinity that is not simply a concession to man's fallen state.

Well, yeah, that's enough to whet the appetite of our listeners for tomorrow. And now very briefly Pastor Jeff Waddington tell our listeners something about the church where you pastor in Lansdowne, Pennsylvania.

Sure.

I have the privilege of serving a stated supply at Knox Orthodox Presbyterian Church, which by the way was the congregation where Professor John Murray.

Worshipped.

When he himself wasn't preaching back when he served as a professor at Westminster Theological Seminary. And this congregation is somewhat unique in that it is an exclusive psalm singing congregation.

And.

I don't personally share that conviction. There are other unique convictions that they have. That are like the psalm singing that are that are actually reflective of a of a traditional Presbyterian perspective non instrumentation and worship.

And non Christmas or Easter observance again. I don't share those convictions, but in God's Providence, they've been very receptive to my ministry and Love the people. They are a good group of Saints.

They're in the Lansdowne area, which is right next to Upper Darby. Which is the most cosmopolitan? City or Community in either the United States or in the state of Pennsylvania with some 71 different nationalities.

Ethnicities represented all in that small space and that's to the southwest of downtown.

Philadelphia and that's why you are a stated supply there because you disagree with them on the exclusive psalmody and on the.

Understandably, they would want a pastor who shared those convictions. Now. I've been there four years in my fifth year and We we every once in a while we'll we'll have a conversation about these kinds of issues, but but I.

I.

Respect their position. In fact, I've learned this to appreciate the Psalms in a way. I had not before. And and that's a good thing. We sing my eight Psalms my four Psalms per service. Apart from that the service is is your typical?

Reformed.

Service.

Nothing unusual. Apart from from the Psalms and the and the. The particular Psalter that we use is the 1950 RPC and a Psalter.

So many of the tunes are traditional in tips. Okay. Well if anybody wants further information about that church Go to Knox dash Presbyterian org. Knox dash Presbyterian org, but today we are talking about for the first hour daddy tried Overcoming the failures of fatherhood.

Now what led you pastor Tim to want to write this book. What kind of Life experience. Did you have that made you say I've got to write a book on this theme.

I've been in the ministry what for 33 years. But more than that because even before I was ordained with Mary Lee and I worked in churches my wife and I. Father hunger defines our. There's an intense attack upon fatherhood.

Fathers are the butt of jokes and so nobody Today sets their sights on being a father. They set their sights on getting married maybe and having children is not respected. It's not something that people aspire to today and I've just seen so many men and women who have father hunger.

They won't use the term but they just their lives are defined by the failure of their dads and. Men who want to be fathers say they become a Christian and their father was absent emotionally or physically in the home or abusive.

Those men are scared to death about. So when I've told stories about my dad who was a wonderful father. In fact, we grew up 11 minutes from your church and We grew up. I grew up on Rodman Avenue.

In Havertown, ah, yes, okay.

Yeah, yeah. And my parents were one of the couples that started Delaware County Christian School when we lived there. But when I talked to people about my dad and tell stories about you can just see men's eyes come alive.

Worries aren't Gilded, you know, they're not beatifications of dad, you know, he had failures he had faults. Years of courage. Other men to finally realize this and. It's come to me that that really is such a good summary of what the Christian life is.

You know. You think of Lloyd-Jones saying that faith is under your heel. It's ain't saying that the Christian life is made of ever new beginnings. Luther's first these the life of repentance. And I think there's such perfectionism and so much, you know.

You know cosmetics counter of the Nordstrom. Everybody puts their face on and everybody thinks that if they. And the fact is we all know as pastors just everybody does. Reason for the title and that's really the ethos of the book.

It's look.

I'm gonna give our email address if anybody would like to join us with a question of your own. Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. See HR is a RN. Z n at gmail .com. Please give us at least your first name your city and state and country of residence.

If you live outside of the USA and I understand with a topic like this, especially that might involve Sensitive private information if it makes you feel more comfortable to remain anonymous. We will we will respect that request and honor it.

So that's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com tell us about The fall and the fruit of the fall today in regard to this topic.

The basis for revival is to preach the fall and It sounds counterintuitive and it certainly is not what reformed we reform pastors do today. Awful thing to preach because. Once people understand that we don't we're not sinners because we sin, but we sin because we're sinners.

And you know that that quote by that quote by Pascal where he says that Without the fall and Adam sin, we don't begin to know ourselves. We can't understand ourselves. And I think I will tell you this the book is one quarter as long as it was when I finished it.

Listen and about a hundred and fifty thousand words were taken out of that section on the fall. They had to do such heavy lifting to impress upon the readers. What a significant thing it is that we lived in a fallen world.

And to show them in Scripture. You know that the heroes of Scripture not just their weaknesses. And then to talk about the impact of the fall on our world. You know abortion is the most notorious, but the incidents of incest and sex abuse.

And conservative reformed homeschooling families. I spend much of my time working on that at churches around the country and It's had a number of cases people don't come to. Thinking about what it means to be a father having seen.

What actor in the Old Testament what happened in the Garden of Eden? What happened in the Old Testament. What happened in King David's household. What happened at the Corinthian Church if they don't see.

That in this life we struggle with our sins and the sins of the people we love. Then there's completely unrealistic could never be fulfilled except in heaven. And so then what you end up having this hypocrisy and up having everybody with the outside of the cup clean and the insides filled with.

We all the church ends up being a place that just everybody hides it from each other.

And I'm assuming one of the areas that the fall has affected fatherhood is.

That.

Eve.

Had the desire to have rule or control over Adam and that to degree exists many many times in our life. Thousands of years later in our world I should say where the the mother perhaps is trying to rob the husband of his role.

But perhaps not consciously especially when you're talking about a Christian of Bible-believing Christian wife and mother. But is that a part of the problem as well since it's a part of the fall.

Yeah, there's like to be under authority and I might not have been able to say that three centuries ago. But let's admit that the ethos of America's rebellion. And I wrote a blog post this last week saying and the abdicator and the rebel always live in a symbiotic relationship and they both have It's both the same sin.

Both of them are repudiating the authority that God has delegated this way. But God will always hold the abdicator more responsible. And so yeah in the marriage one of the things that struck me as you read books on on raising children on fatherhood and motherhood and They absolutely have nothing to say about the conflicts between the husband and wife over the discipline of the children.

And I think man where my wife and I like monsters that we thought. It doesn't seem like anybody else fights over it. And so yeah, I do think you're between the husband and the wife and listen I actually think that striving is wonderful.

I think that God ordained Children to grow up in the black soil of the tension between man and woman.

Fatherhood, Repentance, and Restoring Broken Relationships

That's an interesting way of phrasing it and by the way, I didn't even remember to mention this to you before the program pastor Jeff but you could chime in with a question anytime you want. You don't have to wait for me to gesture you.

Okay, that's fine. I just want to make sure you knew that I'm enjoying. I'm enjoying listening to Tim Lay this out. Just thinking my own growing up and seeing my parents and then my own experience. I grew up in a household with a loving father and mother.

And.

They they used to get into fights in front of us. They didn't hide it. I'm sure. Well, maybe they did hide some of them. But but. And I think that was a good thing to see how a real Christian husband and wife would Have disputes over sometimes over, you know how to handle the misbehavior of their son.

And especially if they resolve the disputes in a biblical way.

They did that's what I'm saying. I had a I had a good Upbringing in that regard and I'm thankful they weren't perfect but but they endeavor to model a Christian Marriage before us and and and then. So when I entered into my own marriage and then became a father I had that good Background and so I appreciate and especially now In in in the years I've had in ministry I've faced such situations where Justice Tim has described them where where the fathers have either abdicated their responsibility Or You know the the wives or women have rebelled against it and usually as he said, they're they're they're both together or one leads to the other and had some situations where Very sad circumstances were involved and especially with you know, various kinds of abuse and those are always Misgenerational in other words from what I've seen and of course reading this the scriptures you see this in the life of All of the Saints we as has already been pointed out we see warts and all right but I've seen just from experience pastoral experience that that that a bad parental situation will yield Years of sorrow and sin Behavioral issues in children and perhaps even I guess grandchildren.

Mm-hmm.

We already have a number of people waiting to have their questions asked and answered. So we're gonna go to them after the break and So don't go away. We're gonna be right back after these messages. We'll be returning shortly with our guest Tim Bailey.

And daddy tried. Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio. And here's one of my favorite guests Todd Friel to tell you about a conference.

He and I are going to. Hello, this is Todd Friel host of wretched radio and a wretched at TV and Occasional guest on Chris's show. Think I think that's what it's called hoping that you can join Chris and me at the g3 conference in Atlanta.

My new hometown. It is going to be a bang-up conference called the g3 conference celebrating the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation with Paul Washer Steve Lawson da Carson Vodie. Welcome Conrad and Bayway Phil Johnson James White and a bunch of other people.

We hope to see you there. Learn more at g3 conference. Comm g3 conference.

Thanks, Todd, I think. See you at the iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth.

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Tired of box-store Christianity of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert. Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship? And how about the preaching.

Perhaps you've begun to think that in-depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island. Well, there's good news. Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience Featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word.

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you. Call them at 6 3 1 9 2 9 35 12 for service times 6 3 1 9 2 9 35 12 or check out their website at wrbc .us. That's wrbc .us. Welcome back. This is Chris Arns.

And if you just tuned us in our guest today for the first hour is Pastor Tim Bailey of Clear Note Church in Bloomington, Indiana. We are discussing his book. Daddy tried overcoming the failures of fatherhood in studio with me as my co-host today is Pastor Jeff Waddington of Knox Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Lansdale Pennsylvania.

That's Lansdale. Yes, and then what I said Lansdale. That's okay. That's nearby. It's nearby to the north of us. Okay, beautiful community. Okay, I still can't understand the difference between the pronunciations.

Dale and down. Oh, okay.

We do have a listener in White Plains, New York Bob who has a question for Pastor Tim. As A father of five that has been divorced and the five are divided among multiple families I feel I have failed because of my own inability to Stay in a marriage for multiple reasons and I feel the kids do suffer.

No matter how much you try to make them feel normal. What does God say in his word to reassure me that despite my failures as a father? He will still be there for them throughout their lives because they are covenant protected.

You have an answer for that Tim. You have five years of your life. I don't want to be I don't want to be rude. But we're talking about such heavy issues. We're talking about the nature of God's covenant.

We're talking about divorce. We're talking about a man trying to work with children that I don't think live with him. It sounds like they live with his wife and There are so many issues there. I think the one thing that's absolutely necessary though is that we realize That when God made the covenant with Abraham that he had made the covenant with him.

Commands his children to keep the way of the Lord to do justice and righteousness. So that he could bring upon Abraham all and so we not to look at God's covenant with our succession. Concept which is a unilateral concept and I think so much of what has been written and spoken on covenant sacramentalist.

She's writing him to ask what he can do to make sure that God continues to be a God to his children needs to know. That he's he's very limited in some ways because he doesn't have the command authority that a father.

That is in a home with a wife. Working alongside of him has so he has to worry about bitterness on the part of his wife on his part on the children's part. He has to worry about not having him in a physical home.

And so what I would say to him is we must Be the father we can be as we have and we must plead with God to cover the nakedness of our sin. I think one of the most important things and it doesn't matter whether you're divorced or whether you're in the home with your wife with your children to their children and to their spouses and.

Because what it does is it makes it clear that none of us deserve the mercy and grace of God. He might feel more acutely what a blessing this it might be fearful because his wife's attacking him. I don't know the circumstances common for a divorced wife.

The authority with the chill lead by saying that we really do believe that God is good. I think that's the thing humility and not this not this Pathetic weakness if I'm just a sinner and and don't look up at me and all that sort of stuff but nevertheless To acknowledge and that he demands that his children walk in the way of the Lord so that God can fulfill the covenant.

I'm sorry. I feel so inadequate when it's just asked by email. But that's what I would say to him and then that would start a long conversation.

Well, Bob. Give us your full name and address your mailing address and you're getting a free copy of Daddy Tried by our guest Tim Bailey compliments of war horn media and We look forward to having that shipped out to you and that will be shipped out to you free of charge by Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CVB BS comm.

See the BBS comm which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service and we thank Todd and Patty Jennings for their faithful support of iron sharpens iron and for mailing out all of our Free Bibles and books that we give to listeners who submit questions.

Yes Yes.

I used to go every year to with my brothers who are both pastors one has gone to be with the Lord The banner of truth conference and every year we would go over to Cumberland Valley. Say hi to the guys and spend spend a lot of money at that store.

Come from that store. One year when our new church started I didn't have permission to do this, but we were a new church and I think I spent three thousand dollars in that store. My car took all the books back and then said to the elders, would you guys reimburse me?

Is that why you're in a different church.

Very understanding elders.

Well, it's a good thing that you didn't have to say that to your wife when you got home.

Was.

That when Fred Huebner owned it or was that when that. Yeah that that is the father of one of the current owners Patty Jennings.

Her.

Her maiden name is Huebner and Fred is her dad and that's Todd and Patty Jennings now on that. But anyway, thank you. Thank you Bob and thank you Tim for the story. There we do have Tom in West Islip, Long Island, New York.

Do you have thoughts on raising an adopted child in the midst of natural born? biological children.

Something of a knowledgeable person on adoption and Had very difficult things and also might my five children. I have 21 grandchildren three of them are adopted All three of them from Ethiopia by two different families who also have their own natural children.

Adoption Has to be done Trusting that that God is going to work through the family and that it's not going to be Pie in the sky and it's not going to be all sweet. They're very difficult things about adoption.

One of the things I've noticed is that parents typically When they adopt think that the adoption is going to be to go well because it's an act of their Christian love and and mercy and Because something is motivated by our love for God and faith and a desire to be merciful and compassionate does not mean that it's going to be easy work and One of the most difficult things is often the adopted child's personality is completely at odds with the ethos of the home you know because the child doesn't have the same genes and So you know, yeah, this child just doesn't fit in.

It's the child such everybody on edge Because his personality is completely different and I think that one of the things Christian parents have to do who are adopted is they have to realize that they actually do love their child, even though many times he drives them wacko and Just continue to love him and Don't let the child ever hold you hostage by saying you're not my real father and mother.

You just can't do that, but it's a wonderful work. Give yourself to it, brother.

Well, thank you Tom and you're also getting a free copy of daddy tried Overcoming the failures of fatherhood by our guest Tim Bailey and give us your full mailing address and we'll get that out to you as soon as possible.

We have a Tyler in Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York. Who says. What do you recommend for single men who want to learn to be a father?

Not.

Intellectually, but in accordance to the Word of God. I'm not really sure what he means by that, but maybe you do. I don't know what he means by that not intellectually. Well, he's getting the free copies.

But my goodness I wrote the book precisely with young men young college students grad students brand new fathers men who aren't fathers in mind and It's filled with story it really does present the character of God and What really you could understand this book being is an extended meditation theological and spiritual and emotional on the character of God as a father and I don't think there's any better way of preparing for marriage then.

To learn about God's discipline of his sons to learn about God's jealousy For his own glory and that he's not going to share it with a woman who makes an idol out of her children. Are you with me? Mm-hmm.

And that kind of thing will acclimate you to what kind of life you need. You know because that you'll begin to see your weaknesses and what kind of strengths you need from a woman to compensate for it.

But honestly, I would say I'd say buy the book and sit down and talk about it with some of your friends have a weekly discussion group of it. Because it's going to cause your hair to stand on end in a way that other books aren't.

This book is written to men and it doesn't coddle you and no woman is buying this book. 70 of Christian books are bought by women and Everything I did about this book I'm aiming to deal with men in a manly way in a way that scripture deals with them.

And I think and I don't think it'll be discouraging to you. But I think it's not gonna just flatter you and it's not going to coddle you. You know, and so that really is what I would say now one other thing if you are a single man.