Sunday Night, September 9, 2018 PM

I know it shouldn't be a showy thing, but I feel like they're almost like the Lord because.

I'm not willing.

It's almost like I just want to, you know. And I mean, growing up, literally, I was going to serve as my sister and roll my hand down because it was so looked down upon. And then that setting was a real emotion.

Raising Hands in Worship Without Legalism

Well, if our precious dear Ms. Jeanette were still with us, her hands are raised pretty often. That kind of thing, I think, is everyone's just kind of politely at the stop sign, not going. I think there is a concern because we do see the pendulum and the extreme emotionalism.

And also there is the liturgy of raising hands where it's expected and you better do it. And in certain situations, if you don't raise your hands, there's something wrong with you. So obviously we don't want that kind of, and then if you do raise your hands, there's something wrong with you.

Obviously, we have to remember that God made us, body and soul, a whole. And as we often will stand in honor of the scriptures, as we sing in honor of God, expressions that are appropriate to the worship of God are encouraged in the scriptures.

And so that which is orderly and honoring to God, there are different songs. Different songs, you'll notice that Ms. Wylene and Lisa will play different types of songs differently on the piano. Some of them require a little more oomph than others.

Oomph is a technical term for the musically challenged among us. But there's a difference between some songs and others, isn't there? And there's a difference in the way that they are played. There's a difference in the way that they are sung.

And so there's an appropriateness, I think, to that. So, and elders, you can speak to this as well, about if someone wants to raise their hands in worship to God. Is this disturbing? I think, you know, is this something that is out of order in worship?

I do not believe so. First Timothy 2 .8, so this is an expression of worship and in particular in a call to prayer. Now, this is definitely not something that we see, is it? And yet also when we sing hymns to God, we are addressing God, praising Him.

We're in communication with God. So this is under the, are we not praying often when we sing? Sometimes we're preaching when we sing hymns, sometimes we're praying. We're proclaiming something about God or we're declaring something to God.

And the raising of hands seems to be appropriate. And I think that, and of course, this may make other people feel a bit self-conscious. Well, if I don't raise my hand, then there's something wrong with me.

No, I think we have to be very careful that we do not fall into the legalism on either side. The legalism of no one is allowed to raise their hands and then the other side of, well, I feel condemned because I'm not as expressive in my worship as somebody else.

Where I was an intern at Southwoods Baptist Church, about as much motion as you would get out of the crowd was this. That was the extent of the amens at the church. That's the church I was ordained at, the church I was licensed at, Graceway.

I had a lot of talking back to the preacher, you know, come on, you know. So there's definitely liberty. I think there's some flexibility there. And some of it can be cultural. Like you mentioned North Dakota, South Dakota.

That's a cultural referent, isn't it? I think so. As much as the music itself is there to adorn the message of the hymn or the psalm or the spiritual song, the music itself is to adorn that and to amplify that, not obscure it.

So also the way that we sing, being congregational, it is personal, but it is also congregational. That what we do should be serving one another and encouraging one another to worship Christ, worship God.

It's not merely an individual concern. It's a corporate concern. That's why there's an appropriate way to sing and there's an inappropriate way to go about the worship services. Anything that leads to disorder, to chaos, that kind of thing, obviously is not of the Lord.

The fruit of the Spirit is self-control. And at the same time, it encouraged me when Jeannette raised her hands and sang and helped to lead in the music. It encourages me to see my brothers and sisters in Christ in whatever their expression is.

Even if they're not raising their hands, if they're singing, to hear their voice encourages me to sing. Because we are not forsaken the assembling of ourselves together as is the manner of some, but all the more as the day is approaching.

And what are we doing when we gather but to encourage one another to hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering. And that is encouraging to me. It's a service to one another when we sing and encourage those around us to sing as well.

We're ministering to each other even as we are ourselves worshiping God. And so, yeah, as long as we're talking about it, the raising of hands, but it should not turn into, it should not be like everybody has to do this or something's wrong with you.

It can't be that. And it can't be one way or the other. This is what's expected. Thank you, Red. I should defer to Red first, you know, not required, not forbidden. But indeed, it's something where I've seen the other side, you know, and it can be artificial.

But if it's not artificial, it's glorifying to God.

Yeah.

Our posture before God matters. And I remember on Wednesday nights, our time of prayer with the men at Liberty Baptist Church. One of the elders there, Richard Weatherby, he's a leader.

And this very humble man, and he led the church in prayer.

Wisdom from Brother Jerry.

Wisdom from God in this world.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. There are times when I feel like I'm raising my hands.

And reality isn't always directed that way.

And there are times when I feel like I should.

And I'm reminded, I was thinking of a quote by Vance Hafner. That the same people who yell like Comanches at the ball game on Saturdays, look like wooden Indians and charitons. And that convicts me because I can get excited at a game.

You know, and I'll holler, I'll yell.

I'm in the game.

I'll sit on the field.

Somehow, we've let the excesses of some Bible freedom in that without becoming a distraction from the sense of worship.

And that's not always a good thing to have.

I know that God and God is in the scriptures in devotional terms as well. And so, somehow we've got to. Michael, there's a church that raises their hand.

Let me ask them directly. Don't stop it.

Yeah.

Well, that's the thing, isn't it? That what we're called to in worship is certainly not a, ultimately it's not a form.

Right.

It's not about our function, just how we are doing these things. But that we are, in our worship, we are ascribing worth to God. And we are giving him glory that is due him. We are praising our King Christ.

And so, from the fear of the Lord, it should have an impact on how we stand and how we sing and how we engage with the Word of God. Yes, Ms. Weilene. Thank you, Ms. Weilene. Yes, Becca.

Yeah. Yeah, it is.

It is.

I'm still going to wear a suit.

It's fine.

I'm reminded when we have conversations like this about something that Herman Bavinck wrote at the turn of the 1800s to the 1900s, where he said that in general, and he was in the Netherlands, but he was talking about how people were losing the ability to distinguish between different kinds of feelings.

And there was the feeling, the aesthetic feeling that comes from art when you're moved by art, something that has been crafted in whatever kind of art form it is, that we are moved by art. He said, but this is different than the religious feeling when you're moved by truth, when you're moved by the truth of God, about who he is.

And that if we lose the ability to distinguish between one and the other, this is when the theater invades the church. And this is where we are today in our nation, where the theater has invaded the church, because it's easier to be moved by aesthetic than it is to be moved by the truth of God.

And the feelings that come from the truth of God are not always euphoric. They're not always uplifting. Very often they'll challenge us and they'll break us, and the truth of God will bring us into a godly sorrow.

But in all these things, when we're talking about expressions of worship, the matter is to not put on our own personal theatrics and to be moved by something aesthetic, but to be moved by the truth of God and to respond genuinely to that.

And that's a good question. If we're coming together to worship God, are we fearing God or fearing man? But if we truly fear the Lord, then we will be led into loving one another. So I think that will guide us correctly.

I'm glad we're having this discussion.

Yes. So, you know, it's shouting amen in the middle of a song,.

But raising the hand can be that visual, like, yes, I agree. So be it.

Yes. Verse 31.

Well, I, you know, in the providence of God, I just want to say that I'm, I mean, we've got pretty good attendance here for Sunday night, and I'm glad that we can have a family discussion about it because, you know, honestly, this is one of those things where everyone's trying to be deferential to everybody else, and we're not talking about it, right?

So I'm glad that we're able to do that. And I just want to praise the Lord for...

Does that help, Ms. Lori? I think it helps us too.

Yes, Joel.

Answering Skeptical Questions by Giving Scripture

If you could have been someone who strove to live your life,.

Go down to St. Paul, and with how much work you got home with,.

You didn't fail to live a whole bunch of other lives. At that point, would you be able to...

Well, if you only have five minutes to talk to somebody who has a lot of skeptical questions about Christianity, you obviously could not go through and answer every objection by presenting seven to ten proofs to refute any claim to the contrary.

And even if you did, and you had all the time in the world, if somebody's heart is against God and against Christ, every last bit of your evidence will not be convincing. Jesus Christ gave many signs of evidence to the most scholarly religious leaders of his day.

Many evidences that he was indeed the Christ, the Son of the living God. And although they were excellently schooled in the Old Testament and had vast swaths of it memorized, they rejected him because it was the heart issue.

It wasn't the head issue. And so while we are called to defend the faith, before we make a defense for what we believe in, the first part of the instruction is to sanctify or to set apart Christ as Lord in our hearts.

And so you said that your mother was telling you, talking to you about Jesus, you know, if Jesus is true, then well, this is where it comes back to you, isn't it? That if Christ is Lord, then everything else is settled.

That if Christ is truly who he is and he is Lord, then everything else is settled about who wrote the scriptures and how God made the world and which religion is true. Everything is settled at that point.

And it all has to do with who Christ is. So it's a difficult challenge you have in front of you for your friend. He has great skeptical questions that have no business being answered in five minutes. But you have the opportunity to direct him to the scriptures, to direct him to some things that Jesus said to those who were skeptical about him.

So you can look in the Gospels and look at when people did not believe him. What did Jesus say to his skeptics? How did he challenge them? What are some of the things that Christ said? And Joel, if you only have five minutes with somebody, give them scripture.

If you only have five minutes with somebody, give them scripture. For how are we born again? Not by what is perishable and corruptible, but what is imperishable, the living and enduring Word of God. And so we have got to depend on the living and active, powerful Word of God.

The Holy Spirit will do his work by the preaching of the Word of God. So my encouragement to you is I don't think you're going to be able to answer all the skeptical questions, but to direct his attention to what Jesus himself says in the scriptures and to plant that seed, to plant that seed.

Does that help to help understand what the yeah, well, we can talk about that.

We have some excellent resources in our library that we can I would say that there are some good video clips and things out there for people to watch, but there's always going to be the skepticism, always going to be the questions.

The Pharisees posed many, many questions, not because they wanted to know the answers, but they wanted to disprove the person. And so that's the submission to Christ is what is the main focal point.

And again, there's always an answer to every objection, but those answers won't be helpful until someone submits to Christ, and then those answers become reinforcing to one's faith, not a replacement for one's faith, but reinforcing.

Yes, David. Yes, absolutely.

Giving the Bible to Those Who Reject It

Well, it's only fair. It's only fair. If he thinks he has reasons to disbelieve the Bible, ask him why his reasons are good, and he's going to give you a reason. I don't accept your reason. Defend your reasoning, and he'll give you a reason why his reasoning is good.

That's called circular it's only fair that you give him the Bible if he doesn't believe the Bible. And honestly, why would we do that? Jesus did it. Paul did it. The adherents, the people who were listening to Jesus and Paul as they preached the gospel, didn't believe what they were saying, and he gave it to them anyway.

That's the power of the Word of God. It's the power of the Holy Spirit to work through that. Never mind that you reject the Bible. This is what Jesus says, and you don't have to be rude about it, but to continually put that in front of him, because you certainly don't want to take up what is but ashes and dust and offer it.

I mean, just present the Scriptures. And I think that the veracity, the truthfulness, the power, the vibrancy of the Word of God is in great contrast to someone's personal meandering objections to God.

I think that if someone were to sit down and write out all their objections to God, and you were to write out passage after passage of Scripture and put them side by side, you know where the truth is, you know where the power is.

And honestly, listen, everyone's running from God. Everyone's running from God. You cannot push people away from God harder than he can pull. And if they're running away from God, then unless someone gets in front of them and trips them up, they're going to keep on running.

And so give them the Scripture, because he needs to hear the words of Christ. The time is fulfilled. The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Repent and believe in the gospel.

Yes, we are out of time.

We can still stick around and fellowship. But let's go ahead and close by singing the doxology.