Heartwarming Talk w/Mormon Couple

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This church is teaching you a false Christ. You're on public property now, sir. God says,

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I am the Lord, I do not change. But he does change. The Bible says he doesn't. Do you believe in the

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Bible, or which Bible do you believe in? Oh, yeah, I believe in the Bible. Which Bible do you believe in? Oh, which translation do

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I use? Do you use the King James Version? The King James 1611 English translation.

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I prefer, because the English is really old, I personally prefer like an

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English Standard Version or NASB. I like a more modern English translation, personally.

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But King James is great. Yeah. Yeah, it's a great translation. Um, well, isn't like what

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Christ did right here is in the Bible? I'm sorry, say that one more time? What Christ did right here, as this passion is going on, is all in the

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Bible. Well, here's the thing, and I'd like to hear what you have to say about this. Okay. Where is the part of the story here where Heavenly Father has sex with Mary to produce

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Jesus? Yeah, it never says in the Bible. No, I know it doesn't. It's not in the Bible. That's what

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Brigham Young taught. Orson Pratt taught that. Where's the quote? Sure. Um, I know, it's not something that is commonly taught when you walk into the

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Mormon church today. Hey, we believe it, but it is in fact Mormon doctrine. Wait, where's this book? This is called, oh, this is called, where does it say that?

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And it's photo reprints of Mormon documents. So it's actual photocopy. Well, these are your

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Journal of Discourses. It's your books. Journal of Discourses, Journal of Discourses, History of the

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Church. It's photocopies. Okay. So, and the references, by the way, are here. You can go look them up later, okay?

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But I'll give you a couple examples. Brigham Young, 1860, Journal of Discourses, Volume 8.

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Do you guys have these at home, Journal of Discourses? No. No? Okay. You can get it, though, on an app. Did you know that?

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You can get Journal of Discourses on the app. Oh, yeah, for real. The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children.

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It was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood and was begotten of His Father as we are of our fathers.

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So, like, born of a woman, from a woman. How were you begotten of your father?

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Through his actions, but through the woman it was natural. Right, but he's saying that he was begotten of his father as we are of ours.

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So how did your father, we know, but... Some people have this, there's, you know, injections.

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They don't actually have sex with a man to have babies. Well, there's more, though. And Matthew, yeah, I'm hearing you,

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I'm hearing you. Matthew 1 .18, it says, he was found with child, she was found with child by the agency of the

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Holy Spirit. So it was by the Holy Spirit, not Heavenly Father producing him sexually.

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Here's another one, just plenty to show you, but I'll give you another one. This is, I think, a pretty clear one.

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This is from Orson Pratt, the seer, okay? It says, the fleshly body of Jesus required a mother as well as a father.

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Therefore, the father and mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been associated together in the capacity of husband and wife.

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Hence, the Virgin Mary must have been, for the time being, the lawful wife of God the

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Father. Because Heavenly Father, in order to have sexual relationship with Mary, had to be married to her.

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That's what Orson Pratt taught. But she's still a virgin if she had sex. Amen. She's not the Virgin Mary anymore. That's a denial of what the

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Bible teaches about Jesus. Yeah, you can go. No, it's fine. And there's many more

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I could show you, but I think that's just an example of where's that in the story. It's not there, but it is official

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Mormon doctrine. And by the way, you've got to at least have this. Tell me you do. Were you born and raised LDS? Okay, where are you from?

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Nigeria. Okay, so do you guys ever have on your shelf Bruce R. McConkie Mormon doctrine? I think

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I did. Did you? Okay. Well, if you have a copy of that when you go home, look up Bruce R. McConkie Mormon doctrine on Jesus and His birth.

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And Bruce R. McConkie teaches the same thing. It is in fact Mormon doctrine, okay? But this is the most important thing.

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We talked about the Book of Mormon tonight. We talked about a number of things tonight. Guys, it matters that you have the true and living

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God, the right God. And Joseph Smith taught a different God than the

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God of the Bible. Another example is I am the first and I am the last. Besides me there is no

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God. Joseph denied that he's the first, denied that he's the last. Denied that he was the only God.

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You know, there's a scripture in the Book of Mormon that says that. Oh, this is the...

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They talk about there's one God and this is the only God. That's the powerful thing is that... And by the way, what's your name again? Ben. Ben.

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That's the powerful thing, Ben. In 1830 when he published that, Joseph Smith was influenced by the

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Christians in his area. So you have in the Book of Mormon instances where it says there's only one God. And then you have

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Joseph Smith later saying that there isn't only one God, there are many gods. His belief even changed over time.

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And I don't mean this to wound you, Ben. I'm not here to be your enemy. I'm here because I love you. And this is the most important thing

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I think to think about in terms of Joseph Smith. And this is not an attack on you or you. But this is just something that I want to say, have you done this?

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In Deuteronomy chapter 13, long before Joseph came along, long before you came along or me, Deuteronomy 13,

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God says, basically, how do you know someone's a false prophet? It says, even if they have signs and wonders, it looks legit.

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But they lead you after other gods. Then God has already revealed they're a false prophet.

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Joseph Smith taught people a different Christ, a different God, and God says that's how you know they're a false prophet, even if it looks right.

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And the Bible does teach that if you have a false gospel, you do not have a gospel that saves.

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You will not be reconciled to God. This church teaches you that it's through Christ's atonement and your obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel that you'll be saved.

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To make exaltation. What says to be saved? It says to be saved, that's the article of faith,

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I'm sorry. But, okay, 2 Nephi 25 -23, by grace you are saved after all you can do.

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So it's grace plus your works so that God can accept you.

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But the Bible teaches, therefore, Romans 3, 28, we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

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When God saves a person, He brings them to His Son by faith, and by faith we are joined to Christ, made new, but it is by faith and faith alone that we are reconciled to God.

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Any works would condemn us, right? I'm a sinner. Well, in,

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I forget this one, I'm sorry. No, tell me, go ahead. Give me a shot. Well, in the

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New Testament it says faith without works is dead. It says in James. James chapter 2. Right.

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What are your thoughts on that? Thank you. That's a good question. Okay, I'm going to ask you the same question I ask all my

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Mormon buddies that ask me that, okay? And please don't take this in any way like a jab because I really want to know.

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Ben, have you read James 2? Yeah. Okay, what would you say is the context of James 2? Faith.

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That's good. That's actually a pretty sweet answer. Okay, that's big. So, James 2 .10, it says in that same passage,

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Ben, it says, Whosoever of you shall keep the whole law, right? Yet stumble in one point, you are guilty of all of it.

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That's in the same passage that says faith without works is dead. But, in the passage,

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James isn't even discussing how a person is justified before God. Because he doesn't know how.

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No, he does know it's faith alone. He's asking the question, not, it's not this, watch.

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It's not, is it faith plus works or just faith alone? The question for James is, which kind of faith saves?

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Is it dead faith or living faith? So, in other words, does fake faith, dead faith save?

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And the answer is what? No. And so, he says, faith without works is dead. How do you know if somebody's faith is alive?

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If it's real, by what they do. James isn't even saying how a person is reconciled to God.

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Paul answered that in Romans. And he says, we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law.

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Ben? What was your name, sweetie? Rochelle. Rochelle? I love that name. I love you guys.

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And I'm serious, I have such a burden for you. I do, because this church is teaching you a message that is faith plus your own righteousness and works in order to be reconciled to God.

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And that is a false gospel. It's a message of death. The Bible says that you are under the curse of the law.

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Whosoever of you attempts to be justified by law, you've fallen from grace. It's not just a false

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Christ. It's a false gospel. And you can never make it. You'll never make it.

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And we're not here trying to rob you of your faith. I don't want that for you,

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Rochelle. I don't want that for you. You're going to gamble with your soul. What about David Koresh in Waco?

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He had a lot of personal experiences spiritually. Yeah, he was a nutcase. Heaven's Gate cult.

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They were the cult in San Diego that went out to Marie Callender's, got turkey pot pie and lemonade, came home, drank poison, put sneakers on and five dollars in their pocket for the spaceship that was going to come and get them.

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They were more committed to that, Rochelle, than you are to yours. Because they went and took the poison and put the money in their pocket for the space toll and everything.

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That really happened. And they gambled with their life. And you're gambling with yours. You can know the true

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Christ. I think it's kind of different. I don't know what they did, if they did drugs. No.

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It was false, though. It was false. Sure.

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Yes. But that belief, it's crazy. Why, though? I think we would agree on this.

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And now they changed it to a double it. But here's the thing, guys. Ben, Rochelle, we would all agree on this.

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How do you refute the Jehovah's Witnesses? You go to the Bible to refute the Jehovah's Witnesses.

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You don't go to your own personal interpretation. Sure. They're going through a lot of struggles right now.

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But here's the thing. Jesus says thy word is truth. If... And I'm so glad you agreed to that.

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If your belief, Rochelle, contradicts His truth, it's not Him that's confusing or Him that's wrong.

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It's you and me that are wrong. And you can have life. Well, here's the thing.

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In order to know, you have to go to the Word of God. And I showed you guys tonight a few passages, a few, where God says

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He's the only God, none before, none after. And guys, I don't mean this because, like, I'm trying to win an argument with you.

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I want to share the truth. You had no answer. And I'm not saying, guys, you've got to have an answer. I'm saying...

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Guys, I'm... No, but I'm saying, guys, what I mean by this is that if you go to those texts, you can't answer it.

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Because God is so clear there. He's the only God, none before, none after. And Joseph denied that with his whole heart.

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He said the gods created the heavens and the earth. He says you've got to learn to become gods yourselves.

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No, he said gods. Ben knows that's true. That's a condemning passage to bad judges.

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It wasn't a text saying you can become a god. Okay, maybe

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I wasn't clear. So I'll take the blame for that. Psalm 82. It's a judgment passage where God is condemning the unjust judges of Israel.

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He condemns them. They were supposed to act in his place justly. And he says, I said you are gods, you will die.

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Basically, God is condemning them. You were supposed to act in my place, you unjust judges.

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And by the way, there's a Mormon apostle that did a commentary on that passage. He was right. He said it's an irony reference where God is mocking the unjust judges of Israel.

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Jesus uses it against the unjust judges of Israel who are about to stone him. Why? Because he said he was equal to God.

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Why were they going to kill him? Because he said he was equal to God. But there's only one God. And they were going to stone the

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Messiah himself who was God in the flesh. They were unjust judges. Ben, that passage does not mean you'll become a god.

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God says he's the only one. Alright, so the

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Bible contradicts itself a lot. The New Testament contradicts itself a lot.

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I would reject that because it would mean that God contradicts himself. But give me an example. You will see how it contradicts itself.

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Well, do you know what that means though, Ben? It would mean, if it were true, it means that God is not who he says he is.

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It would mean that God's false because God cannot lie. To contradict yourself would be to engage in the nature of lying.

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God cannot lie. That's what makes it harder to be able to understand what God is meaning through the

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Scriptures. No, God is clear. That doesn't mean it's always easy. But God is sufficiently clear.

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Because most of the stuff came from men. No, it says in the Scriptures that holy men of God spoke as they were carried along by the

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Holy Spirit. So yes, it was written by men under the guidance and inspiration of God.

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So it's God himself who's responsible for the revelation. But the important thing to recognize here is that God said,

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Ben, that he would give his Word, he would preserve his Word, and that it's from him. And so if you and I say that God's Word contradicts itself, we're saying that God contradicts himself.

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Now, I'm sure if you and I sat down together, we can go through every alleged contradiction and I could show you that God does not in fact contradict himself.

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The problem, Ben, is in us, not in God. Yes. And so here's the thing.

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Do we trust ourselves and our own sinful thoughts and desires? Or do we trust his Word? There's only one

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God. He says there's none before, none after. And the Bible says that God exists eternally as Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

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Three persons, one God. Right? So that's what the Bible teaches. He's been God from all eternity. And that salvation is only in Christ and Christ alone.

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Yeah. Through faith, apart from any work of law. And the call of the Gospel, Ben and Rochelle, is to turn from your sin to God and to put your faith in Christ and in Christ alone for salvation and for forgiveness.

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Not in your own righteousness, not your works, but in Christ and in His work alone. But what about what

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Christ did on earth? You set the example. Sure he did. He was righteous and blameless. He's my substitute.

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But why did he show that he had to get baptized even though he was perfect? Well, his baptism was by John the

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Baptist, who was a priest. And that was necessary as part of the law for him to be anointed as a priest.

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That was part of the law of God. And you're right, Jesus is the perfect law keeper. And he did all that perfectly.

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And believers... By the way, I want to say this. When we say that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ, it's because that's what the

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Bible says. But if we're truly saved, it means that God has given us a new heart and He lives in us.

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He's raised us to newness of life. So the good works that follow in my life follow because God saved me.

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I don't do the good works to be saved. I do the works because I am saved. But Mormonism teaches the other way.

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It teaches that you are saved by grace after all you can do.

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And that you are saved through the atonement of Christ and through the obedience and laws and ordinances of the gospel.

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It's a different message. Would you do this? Yeah. Okay. Do you have a pen?

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Does anybody have a pen? Do you say you guys drove 19 hours? Yeah, we went to Nebraska.

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What's wrong with you guys? We came back. You did what? Oh, you drove to Nebraska? Yeah, we both drove to Nebraska.

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And then came back. Yeah. Okay, so you just finished 19 hours of driving. Okay, okay. Well, I'll tell you what.

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Do you guys live here? Yeah, we live here. And you guys are married? Yeah. Yeah, you're a young couple.

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So how old are you? 25. You are not 25. Did you see my license? Are you kidding me?

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No. You look, I was totally thinking I was talking to like, I thought you guys were like, I thought maybe you were the return missionary and you were like his high school sweetheart.

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He's actually younger. I thought you were like 17 maybe. You're younger than her?

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Oh yeah, a little bit. 24. 24? 25? Okay, and you live, where do you guys live together? We live in Chandler.

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And where at? I used to live in Chandler. Um, it's kind of like on the borderline, but you know where like a base, no,

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Bartlett Bay, so you go down Dobson and St. Elliot. Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, okay. Excellent.

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I used to live at, I used to live at McQueen and Ray. Oh, okay. So not far from there. Okay, would you do something that would bless my life?

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Yeah. In a serious way. I'm going to write my number and my name on here. And as a couple, if you guys would go through some of these references in the scriptures, you can call me, you can email me.

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Share the truth with me. I'm willing to listen. If you guys believe you're in the truth,

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I want you to go into these texts and show me and then send it to me. You've seen that I'm not a monster and a mean guy. I love you guys.

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Okay? And I want you to go through this and show me, show me that I'm wrong if you're in the truth.

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Okay? And there's no rush. I promise not to send you nasty emails and be mean -spirited to you.

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I'm going to love you. But just if you would, go through that and just review it and maybe even just kind of correspond with me.

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Okay? I had a flash. Okay. So, gosh,

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I just lost. You had 19 hours, man. That's a lot of driving. It was. When did you get

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Kansas? It's just like forever and a day. Is it really? Yeah. It's just been going forever. Well, I don't want you to feel obligated right now to talk, but I'll take you out to dinner.

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I'll buy you dinner. Okay? I will. I'll buy you dinner. I'll buy you dinner. I'll buy you, we'll go out for hot chocolate.

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Okay? Oh, alright. I thought of this. Okay. So, why did

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Jesus choose his followers to be apostles and they were doing good works and following Christ's example?

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Like, why? Because that required works. Sure. Oh, this is important. Okay, Ben.

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Um, Christians do not believe, the Bible does not teach, that, that we don't do good works.

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We, matter of fact, we believe that good works are the identification that you truly are saved.

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Because if the good works aren't there, that means that you're not really a believer. Because there's no real faith.

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So, Jesus called his apostles, they did good works, because Jesus says, if you love me, obey me. But the only way for us to have peace with God is through faith in Christ apart from any work of law.

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It's because of his righteousness. Here's the ultimate thing. I'll send you off with this, okay? The Bible teaches that Christ is the righteous one, not us.

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And that we are credited his righteousness as a gift by faith. And when

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God's, when we stand before God, we don't stand before God, we don't stand before God with our own righteousness.

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We stand before God with Christ's righteousness as a gift by faith. The Father never sees me in my sin.

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He sees Christ in his perfect life. And that's a gift. But, the good works, if they're not there, that means that God's not there.

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Okay? So, we believe in good works. As a matter of fact, if you wanted to do one thing tonight before you go to bed, if you could hang, like after 19 hours of driving, read

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Romans chapters 3 through 6. Okay? With no one talking to you, no one, like, pointing stuff out, you two together read

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Romans chapters 3 through 6 together. Three chapters. Okay? And then get back to me.

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Bless you, man. You're awesome. God bless you. Yes. Yeah.

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Okay. Mormon 9. Is this the one about praying?

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Okay. Mormon 9. You got it. I will do that. I give you my word, okay?