A Little Bit on Eugene Peterson, a Whole Lot on James Simpson

Well greetings and welcome to the dividing line, my name is James white coming you via Skype from evergreen, Colorado. Where I I will mention I a couple hours ago crushed my PR on the Witter Gulch climb.

I didn't expect to I really didn't. I did not expect to I Expected to be two minutes behind. I took a minute off. None of you care about that except for just a few people, you know. There's been one or two people that have said, you know, I really appreciate your encouraging us along those lines I like to hear about there's one or two.

The rest of you is going would you please get to something important? But hey, you know what? See it says Mount Mount Evans, Colorado here. I tweeted a picture of Mount Evans from part of my ride today earlier said my nemesis on Saturday and I'm sorry, but I do have to get a little psyched up.

To be able to ride a bike for I hope. You know, my whole goal is just under three hours. But last year I did 245 two hours and 45 minutes of absolute Agony, I mean you are right on the rivets. You're you're breathing as hard as you can your maximum heart rate.

For almost three hours. And most people find that really stupid and they don't understand it. But the feeling is It's hard to explain staying top Mount Evans 14 ,130 feet above sea level you can see the curvature of the earth you dot who successfully dodged the mountain goats Down there who some once I couldn't use the restroom at the top because the mountain goats took over the restroom.

I'm not sure how that works. But anyway, it happened and The feeling I don't even I don't know only weird people understand what thought that's all about. And so That's what I'm doing on Saturday and Coming down is sort of the bummer.

It's just that's the easy part. It's the going up part. That's a lot of work. So I I PR the winter gulch climb today. And so not even what we're gonna be talking about later on the program can bring me down.

Still got the the post. Super hard effort high going. I guess that's a good thing because otherwise the stuff would be really really depressing anyway. The studio audience is laughing but that's okay we can we can make the studio audience laugh.

Um. So before we get to the Janet Mefford show today, which aired today the interview with James Simpson wherein The fact that he never contacted me did any meaningful research and so on so forth just got ignored for some strange odd reason.

But anyway before we respond to that. Some big news broke yesterday and then. Then it changed. Just today and I am thankful for a few folks on Twitter Who let me know about this because my attention has been elsewhere as you can imagine.

Lo and behold, there's been a retraction. Let me tell you the story yesterday the story broke concerning Eugene Peterson the author of the message now, let me just mention. The message is a paraphrase.

Okay. It's not a Bible version. It is a paraphrase whenever I find people using paraphrases in sermons and things like that. I It gives me hives. Especially if they're making some kind of theological point from it.

Paraphrases, you know, I suppose in some devotional context or something. Okay. All right, whatever. Not my thing, but it's just one person's. You know. You know reference to what the Bible supposedly taught or something along those lines.

Um. Okay I'm not saying it's sinful. It's just needs to be recognized for what it is. It's it is a paraphrase. It's one person's interpretation and you know preachers paraphrase in the pulpit all the time.

And if you're basing your paraphrase upon a knowledge of the original languages and things like that, okay. And I'm sure Eugene Peterson knows the original languages, but it's still just that it's paraphrases one person's opinion.

So I'm never I've never been big on paraphrases whether it was the Living Bible or or even super simplified English translations to be honest with you my I've repeated this many many times, but if if the New Testament is written at level 10 and You produce a translation at level 5 or 3.

That seems to be the ones that sell these days. What happened to all the meaning that is found in vocabulary grammar syntax the construction of sentences? So on so what happened all the meaning between the 10 and the 3?

Well, it's it's gone and I Remember, I think it's I think it was when the message came out I think it was when the message came out the message came out somewhere around 95 96. Then it was when the message came out.

But there was some some paraphrase that came out when I was at the Christian bookseller sellers convention with Bethany house publishers years ago. Right on the same time the King James only controversy came out and I remember going and getting one because that's one thing about CBD you end up Christian booksellers conventions CBC, whatever.

You end up back then I'm not sure if they had weight limits on your on your on your luggage, but you ended up with all these free books, which was sort of fun to be able to go do that kind of thing and so I Remember picking one up and I took it back to the Bethany house booth and I was sitting there thumbing through it and I remember so clearly the thought that crossed my mind was I Could never defend the doctrine of justification from this because it just it's so badly lax.

Any kind of sufficient specificity and language propitiation Imputation, you know. Sometimes I had to get out my Greek New Testament to figure out. Where is he? I I don't understand what he's trying to say here and I don't I'm sure where I am in the text and So, yeah, it was it was pretty it was pretty messy so I I've never read anything by dr. Peterson to be perfectly honest with you Just hasn't really crossed my radar screen.

So yesterday when the story broke That yeah new test was published in 1993 and 1998. Okay somewhere around there. Yeah. When the story broke I was like Well Is this really all that shocking I guess his denominational background years ago is PC USA we know about the PC USA type thing that that that goes along with that and The issue for a lot of liberal Presbyterians is Sort of water under the bridge and so I was gonna talk about that because the comments that he made about basically saying No, it seems like that argument is sort of over with and I've known all these wonderful Homosexual couples it was your standard collapse of someone who used to hold a different view with the culture type thing until a few hours ago and Then a few hours ago, well, first of all this morning I see people saying well, I'm not going to Yes, we saw what was it's a life way life way saying we're not gonna sell his books anymore and then shortly after that all of a sudden there's a retraction and It's I I affirm everything that's biblical and the statement that well the reporter asked me if this and if that and if this and if that and I was a Little hesitant.

I mean, you know, okay, you're 84 years old. So Maybe you can just go. Well, there was some confusion or something. I don't I don't know. But the retraction, you know, I believe marriage between one man and one woman.

Okay, why? Why. What's what's the foundation what's changed from what you said in the report to what you're saying now. How has anything been altered during that that time period? And Could it be that maybe possibly the fact that bookstores are saying they're not gonna sell your books anymore Might have something to do with the retraction.

It would be nice that there have been a little something more in the way of substance to the retraction some Explanation of Really? Well, I I said this but but but I should have said this when someone says well I answered in the moment I've never really understood what that meant outside of oops.

Or I didn't expect that kind of response or I didn't expect there to be any blowback from this or I Don't know but We've been saying for a long long long long long long time just to you know Do not be surprised by the tsunami and Of Apostasy on the issue of the definition of marriage human sexuality gender.

Isn't it? It just still continues to strike me still continues to strike me at how quickly there was a Pivoting. I mean, it's like the day after well, okay two weeks after a burger fell. So everybody can get to you know party and do stuff like that.

Two weeks after a burger fell. It's like homosexuality has become yesterday's big thing and now it's transgenderism. Now it's the transgender movement. Now. It's trans rights and all the rest of this stuff.

It was it was just like, okay Got that one. Let's move. It was it seemed to be fair very well planned actually to take place and If you didn't have a solid foundation for dealing with homosexuality you're probably have a solid foundation for dealing with gender issues and things like that and So those denominations and churches that have abandoned biblical authority a long time ago abandon the idea that God has spoken.

Already come up with the idea that I can be smarter than Jesus was and I can have a view of Scripture Different than Jesus. I'll still trust him for my salvation. Again I'll never never figure that out in the part of liberals.

I will trust Jesus for my salvation. However I'm not going to trust him in his view of Scripture or marriage or Manhood womanhood any of that type of stuff. How does that work? How is he trustworthy to bring about your salvation in eternity, but not so much on the views that he had on other things.

I Just why I'll never be a Liberal. In fact watching some people accusing me of being a liberal recently really does. You'd have to laugh or cry. So you might as well laugh because it's just it's so absurd that you just you just wonder What is what is in the air?

I haven't seen any black helicopters around but I'm starting to wonder if maybe they've adopted Invisibility cloaks and they're spraying something because there's something in the air or in the water.

Something because just the world has just gone every single day. You wake up and go really? No, I can't stop the world. I want to get off things just so so so so so weird. But anyway, like I said You know, so so one fellow who did a paraphrase Collapses on the issue and then the next day he tried to do damage control.

This is this is should not be something that is overly surprising to us. Many people did respond by basically saying yeah, so we sort of expected something along those lines. But it's gonna it's not so much these folks.

I mean the the you know PC USA is a tough place to be that's why I You know One of the leading voices in this field is dr. Robert Gagnon, and he teaches at a PC USA seminary and A lot of us have sat back for a long time going how long can that happen?

How long can that go on? Because the the sexual Revolutionaries are totalitarians. They they do not Allow for any other perspective other than their own. They have proven that over and over again. And once they take over the denominational machinery and things like that.

They they will not brook opposition. You've seen that it's Princeton and what happened with Tim Keller there and stuff like that. They're totalitarians. They you cannot you cannot disagree with them. And so It's it's one thing to see it in those Denominations, but you're gonna be seeing it more and more in historically.

Much more conservative denominations, it's gonna it's gonna continue happening just get used to it. Not in the sense of stop thinking about it or stop praying about it but it shouldn't be something that just makes you go all the sky is falling and God's lost control and and And and all the rest of this kind of stuff there did there really isn't any reason to go there because the fact that What we're seeing is a part of the giving over.

That's that's the language paradiddle me is the is the term that is used Pareto can God gave them over and If our society is so in love with the fulfillment of its own lusts. That it will do what it's doing in regards to Human sexuality and marriage and children I mean the abuse of children that that is going on.

This well, I'm not going to I'm not going to force my child into any gender stereotypes. I mean, this is just child abuse. It's insanity. It's being given over and If our society goes, you know what we're gonna embrace that that's pretty cool.

We're good with that. What do you expect other than judgment? How can you read the scriptures and not see that what you so is what you're gonna reap and if you so to the flesh if you so Rebellion if you so so hatred of God's law in God's ways.

Can you really say God bless this mess? You really can't and I think it was like September 13th 2001 That I sort of said Pete to people the only way we can ask for God's blessing upon this nation. This is before a burger fell.

This is before all the trans stuff and everything else Said about the only way we can ask for God's blessing upon this nation is God bless us with repentance because that is really That is really what this nation needs.

So the the Peterson stuff I'm Thinking is gonna be an ongoing thing because You know, there was a bunch of people all excited on one side yesterday and now today it seems like a different story and it's sort of like I Have a feeling there's gonna be a little more coming out on that over the next next few days.

The reality is that one guy who does a paraphrase? cannot paraphrase out of the text the plain statements of Scripture and you can't get rid of What Jesus taught in Matthew chapter 19 verses 4 through 6 you can't get rid of 1st Corinthians.

You can't get rid of Romans 1 and believe it or not. You really I know a lot of people think they can you can't get rid of Leviticus 18 through 20 either. Not if you're gonna seriously read the New Testament not if you just seriously listen to what the New Testament says in regards to God's law Issues like incest 1st Corinthians mentions these things and If you're gonna be serious, you can't get rid of this stuff and Just because one person decides to start ignoring that doesn't mean that the authority of those things have changed.

So We have to be firmly rooted grounded so we're not blown about by every wind of doctrine and especially in the field of the revolution going on and the willingness of the Revolutionaries to use government authority to persecute those that will not go along with the revolution.

Gotta stand firm, but you've got to know why and when you hear other people entering into apostasy. You can't let that bother you in the sense of you can't go. Oh, you know, maybe I was wrong or oh What what if what if these guys have seen something?

I haven't seen that kind of stuff. Of course, that does mean you have to have thought through the arguments. That's why we do the debates that we've done and done that all the programs are done on the various books that have come out and Continue to come out pretty much all the time and There there you go.

I'm seeing some stuff in in Twitter. That is that is confusing me here. Oh, okay. All right. Micah is talking to people and responding to a bunch of stuff all at once I guess so well We'll just let that slide at at the moment.

Okay, so Got notification I'm going to well, that's that's a problem. Don't have as much screen room as I have in the past. There we go. I'll have to do it that way. Got notification Was it yesterday.

I Think it was yesterday concerning the fact that Janet Mefford was going to be airing an interview with James Simpson Who wrote the American thinker hit piece on me? on June 24th, I am very thankful that Though Janet disagrees With the dialogues I did with Yasser Qadi.

We're gonna be listening to why and I'll be responding to those Claims and those questions that she's at least gonna do something American thinker wouldn't do and that is allow me to respond. That's a I Would think that would sort of be a given in most situations, but in the world we live in today Whether on the far right or the far left, that's that's not the way things are.

You're allowed to rail at people and not really take any responsibility in most situations. So tomorrow I'll be recording with Janet and response to What was aired today? I did. I've listened twice now to the Program.

I've taken the time Today to put it into audio notetaker. So we're playing major segments of it and I'm going to be responding to The comments that were made by mr. Simpson and by Janet on the program today.

I have more time to do so Janice program is a Syndicated program and therefore there are breaks and things like that and you don't get as much time as I have just doing a webcast you don't have to stop for things like that and take breaks and and so on so forth and so we're going to Respond.

I did a preemptive response yesterday. And it is interesting to compare what I said then with what ended up airing and I need to start off by saying that my primary objections To mr. Simpson's article were not even raised.

Never was it pointed out or even discussed that mr. Simpson did not contact me that He could have that any meaningful journalist would have That there were numerous errors that could have been corrected had he contacted me never even mentioned not even mentioned.

For example, we will see later on he will actually raise the issue were Yasser Qadi and I making money. Because and again, this man's an investigative journalist, but he evidently doesn't like to do the investigative part.

I'm sorry, that may sound mean but this is simplistic stuff. We're gonna hear him saying well here. I wanted to start off with this. Let me let me let me play a section here. And we also need to find out this the sounds gonna work.

Sound doesn't work. It's not gonna be good. Here's Let me let me play a section and I'm not speeding this up or slowing it down. We're just gonna go ahead and play it at standard speed here. Let me play this this section right here.

And I think dr White is of the position that he has been doing debates for a long time. His goals are noble because he says we're just talking about our differences. I'm not compromising the gospel. I've shared the gospel with Muslims all over the place.

What reason do you have? I'm just going to ask you straight so we can let listeners know about this. What reason do you have to suspect that this particular dialogue put someone like dr White into the role of the useful idiot a man who could be used by his opponent for nefarious purposes.

Well, for example, he talks about how. That's a good question. Why would they put up with it? Why do they do that? What you know is Risking. Yeah something Like about it. Hold on just a second. There's a second part here alone one that really but yeah.

No, I agree with you. I Agree with you. Wow.

That's one of the most insulting things that have been said to me and it's also one of the most absurd things I've ever heard In my life, I'll be perfectly honest with you again. This man's not done. No research.

What mosques have I been in? East London mosque in London. You know, there's been some terrorist attacks in London. But that wouldn't be one of those places where you couldn't tell people where you are.

That's not a Muslim majority country quite yet. South Africa less than 3 of the of the population is is Muslim. So the majority of the mosque I've been in have been in South Africa so that doesn't fit the paradigm.

So the entire parallel that the man tries to put together because see I know people who are in majority Muslim countries. And I know they can't mention where they are. I have friends right now by the way friends who have access to Muslim only countries in very special ways.

Who by the way think the khadi? Dialogues were awesome. That's exact by the way, mr. Simpson. That's exactly how those people that you're supporting in those countries do their missionary work. They're not standing on street corners with signs and they're not doing formal debates saying that Muhammad was a false prophet.

Because they wouldn't be able to do that. You know how they're reaching people in those countries yeah, they're actually getting to know people and investing themselves in their lives and Opening up the opportunity of showing Jesus to people so they can explain the gospel to them.

That's how it's done in the rest of the world and we sit in our safe little American homes and take pot shots of people. When they try to do the same kind of thing, isn't that amazing? So why am I able to waltz in?

Well, it's really simple sir. The reason that I've received these invitations is That when we do our debates we do them a straightforward fashion now, mr Simpson hasn't watched these debates. He doesn't do research.

He's an investigative reporter that doesn't investigate because if he did then he would have seen literally Hours of my doing the exact thing that he's saying I'm not doing. Because when I go into those mosques watch the debate that I did with Yusuf Ismail now.

Yusuf Ismail is a pretty aggressive guy. So it was a straightforward debate and right there in the Juma Masjid used to be the largest masjid in the southern hemisphere. It's the second largest now. Right there in the Juma masjid.

I am specifically not only proclaiming the deity of Christ, but saying the mr Mr Ismail would not pass my beginning Greek class because the errors that he's made. That the author of the Quran did not understand what is found in a New Testament.

That Jesus Christ is God that every single Muslim in that room. He is your maker. He's your creator. He sustains you you cannot view him as a mirror as a mere prophet, but you see we can't bother mr Simpson with these facts because that would just mess up the whole Political perspective that he's for saying and that's what this is.

It's a political perspective. It's not a gospel perspective. It's politics with religion smeared on the top rather than having the heart of the gospel and then dealing with ramifications might have and So why can I waltz in because I actually treat Muslims with respect and that's I guess one of the great Heresies is that I actually seek to understand accurately represent.

But you know, that's what I've been doing with Roman Catholics and Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. For a long long long time and I guess I just I just didn't know I was doing it wrong that whole time.

But evidently I was and so it has nothing to do with the left. Why in the world would people in the Juma Masjid in South Africa be Concerned about what's going on in the United States as far as some leftist politics.

I mean, they're not they're not. They're not on the same page that they've got a lot of differences with with even with the Muslims in the United States on certain. So this whole conspiracy theory idea that well that you know, our missionaries have to be in hiding.

Yeah, and if I went to those nations therein, I'd be doing the exact same thing but South Africa or Australia or England are not those situations and if you'd done your homework then you'd know where there's that's where those debates took place.

And you wouldn't be making these kinds of incredibly incredibly foolish statements, but we also had this in this section. Is who's paying for it all good question, we don't know any of these things good question.

I don't know I do know that, you know Dr. White now who's paying for it all. The the church that Sponsored the first night paid for it. They didn't pay for me. My ministry paid for me see what we do is we we try to make pennies scream and so one of the reasons we set this up the way we did is I've been invited to go speak someplace else and So I had already been at one place.

I had already been in Atlanta and then I went to Memphis for this dialogue and then I was speaking in Southern Mississippi at the Deep South Founders Conference and So what I was doing is I was Putting this in between other speaking events so that we can save money and I stayed at a Wasn't a fancy hotel.

It was it was a it was a cut above sort of a motel six. But pretty much along the same same lines and who paid for that, uh, I'll make ministries. We did that because see this is this is called reaching out to people and doing evangelistic ministry and seeking to Equip the Saints and reach out to Muslims and that's sort of why people support the ministry and that's why we do it we do.

So who's paying for this we did? Are you insinuating? That we're on the take or something. You want to substantiate that kind of slander. Against Christian ministries, I don't consider that a good question at all.

Not if you don't have any evidence, but Mr. Simpson doesn't seem to be concerned about having evidence one way or the other anyway. So why not just throw the throw the insinuations out there? Why not pick that?

Dr White objected to see to get in not a stop. Never said it never Said it. What did I say? I said it was a ticketed event. Oh, but you have to buy tickets. No, you don't. Haven't you ever heard of having to get tickets?

So, you know, how many people are coming and whether you're gonna have enough seats. There was no charge you had to register you had to get the tickets. Why because there were only so many seats in the church and so you didn't want to have a hundred and fifty people standing outside in the dark not able to get in and.

So there were there was tickets they at first they had a certain number and then they increased them because we had such an interest in it and and. So on and so forth. But no, there wasn't any charge to get in you had to get the tickets so that people would know how many people were coming.

This was not a money-raising event. And again, if you call and ask people then you don't make mistakes like this. Now, I'm sorry about being sarcastic, but this man's called investigative report. He doesn't know how to investigate.

I Am sick and tired of being lied about by people who call themselves Christians. And I think I have a right to be sick and tired of being lied about by people who call themselves Christians. Okay. This thing about money is so absurd so offensive and not a single shred of evidence is brought forth.

But hey, as long as we're defending America, we can say anything we want we can slander. As much as we want and we don't have to worry about facts. We're gonna have to worry about facts. Is that this really how things are now in the church.

Amazes, right? No. But I'm gonna throw the slander out there anyways because I'm irresponsible. I don't know. You could have found out it. You could have called the church that I think that some people have even shown the website still up.

There's all sorts of things you could have done. But you didn't because it's not about actually finding out the facts it's about pressing forward with a particular meme a particular idea a particular political perspective that this is a stealth jihad and so.

We're gonna promote this and what the facts are and the second thing is and then well, that was the first thing so the first thing was. No, no discussion of the fact that mr. Simpson just Has no idea what he's talking about when he talks about me my ministry or motivations even though we've made it very very plain.

He he simply cannot be bothered to do any meaningful research on this subject whatsoever. I get that. Okay secondly.

Why I? Listen to the whole thing. Nothing about the content. Nothing. We did ours.

We did deep theology we did Trinity we did nothing about the content at all. Could someone please explain to me? Could someone please explain to me even if you consider yourself a fair-minded critic Why is it that I have yet to hear any of these critics now?

I'm okay. Let's let's be honest. I've stopped listening to the criticisms because they're just repeating themselves. I mean Brandon house, isn't it funny Brandon house does this stuff and then Paul Flynn Attacks me and two days later Paul Flynn is now on Brandon houses network.

And then Andy Webb attacks me from Dallas and two days later. He's on Brennan houses network. I wonder how I wonder what the connection is. It must be pure Circumstances it there's no connection, right?

No, of course not. And so then they start interviewing each other and it's just the same stuff that we have refuted over and over and over. Again, you just repeat it enough times and unfortunately people start to believe it.

That's that's what we see. That's what we see going on. So I'm not listening to a lot of it anymore because it's just like you want to come up with something new, you know. Let me know but we've blown away everything else.

So if you won't respond to what we're saying what you know, why why continue to waste our time? But Nobody. Why is it that no Christians are going now? Okay. I don't necessarily like the idea Of of the encounter, but you know to be honest they specifically Denied this was your standard ecumenical interfaith dialogue thing.

They denied that they were doing anything like that and the subjects that they dealt with my goodness. They were they were. Specifically on how a person saved on the gospel the Trinity that Bible Quran and so on and so forth.

I mean it was specifically on theological issues. Why isn't there anything like that? Why do I not hear Christians saying isn't it amazing? That a Christian minister got to sit in a mosque and explain the Trinity the deity of Christ and the necessity of the atonement and that's a that's something really to be thankful for.

I haven't Heard one of you people saying and it really makes me wonder what your motivations are. What are your motivations? But why doesn't that make you rejoice? I don't get that. Can you explain that to me?

I Really? Like to understand that you'd like to understand that so going back to the beginning of the program. Just you know, like I said The ideas of Mr. Simpson no research continues to make face plantingly amazing errors.

Even weeks afterwards when he could have had time to be doing maybe some catch-up research, maybe you know that that would have been helpful. No, I'll do it. Secondly. Nothing about the content. Nothing about the fact that all this interfaith dialogue stuff.

We blew that away. We specifically said that's not what we're doing. I said God, you know all this stuff about yasser yasser. Coddy says things that Conservative Muslims say yeah, I said that the beginning the first two minutes you know the reason we want to have this is because he represents a conservative Islamic perspective and this is what conservative Muslims mean if you're gonna gonna minister the gospel to him you need to know what they believe and Guess what?

I I don't like some of the things they believe and they don't like some of the things I believe and If you don't like that, then maybe you're never going to actually minister to Muslims. But those who be those of us who actually do that Already know those things and hence are not only shocked and surprised.

So when people start playing clips of yasser Coddy, that's what Coddy believes Muslim things. I just sort of go. Yeah, that's why we talked and Okay, anyway, let's get back to the start because we're never gonna get done if we don't if we don't play stuff.

Should I should I pick it up? Yeah, all right, I'm gonna take it up to 1 .2. I don't know why I feel that the need to let everybody know that I play things a little faster so we can get Done faster, but I I just figure someone's good.

It's not gonna stop anybody from saying. Hey, you play that fast. We get into the audio, but I still say it anyway, so let's let's get started at the beginning for joining us again.

Well, we are going to tackle a very important issue on today's broadcast and that is interreligious dialogue with Islamists. Now in the last several weeks There has been a growing controversy over an interreligious dialogue that actually took place several months ago between dr James White's of Alpha and Omega ministries and dr Yasser Coddy who is dean of academic affairs at Almagrib Institute as well as a resident scholar of the Memphis Islamic Center.

Now if you've listened to me on the radio for any length of time, you know that I have interviewed dr White many times over the last several years. He is a very smart man. He has written some great Christian books that I have found to be very very helpful.

But I have to admit that as more and more people are weighing in on this particular Controversial dialogue that occurred in Memphis. I do have some very serious concerns about what happened there. Which is why I wanted to do this show and primarily I wanted to address it because of the dangers have been a religious Dialogue from both a biblical and a civilizational perspective.

Now, I would just simply offer a real obvious correction.

Interfaith dialogue. Every time you witness to somebody is that not an interfaith dialogue? We had four Muslims show up last evening at my presentation on Islam in Aurora, Colorado. We talked afterwards.

Well, we actually they actually participate in the Q &A session as well. And Is that in faith dialogue? Well, yeah, because we were dialoguing and between faiths and I guess every debate I've ever done is an interfaith dialogue so anytime you're talking so don't we have to define what we're talking about and didn't we define with Repetitive clarity our Intentions and purposes in what happened to the dialogues in Memphis specifically that there is Absolutely positively no desire on our part to be trying to find some middle ground.

That we recognize that we can't both be true that we can't both be right and what we believe. Didn't we make that as clear as how could we have made any clear? Could someone tell me that how could we have made any clear?

No one. I don't think anybody can answer that because we we couldn't we were that clear Repetitively over and over again anyone who's actually fairly listen to the dialogues and I guess I should rejoice because I would imagine the dialogues are getting watched a lot these days and That's a good thing.

Now whether they're being watched all the way through I think a lot of people that would look for them start Are gonna start listening to them and find out that they aren't anything like what they were Advertised to be but they're really too theological and stop halfway through.

But hey, maybe some others will find them to be extremely useful because that's why we did what we did. Anyways, we continue on very nice. It really is it? Can't we just get along together? We specifically said we're not here to talk to sing kumbaya and sweep our differences under the rug.

But we did say if we live in the same city, we sort of need to get along with one another. We can't be at warfare with one another. This is a community many of these people honestly believe that you mean you may go.

Oh, that's ridiculous. But many of these people honestly believe That with the election of Donald Trump, they could find themselves in camps like the Japanese beginning of World War two. Now when I first heard one say that when I first had a Muslim say that to me.

I was sort of like Huh? What? But they really believe that now I don't think that's a possibility but if you live in a community Where people become convinced the majority of the people around you could come convinced that that is what's gonna happen.

That's gonna impact how you see things, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah it is. So we were very very clear in saying this is not that kind of ishy-squishy ecumenical dialogue. We do not believe the same things we need to understand what we believe and we need to be able to argue about what we Believe but at the same time We need to get along in the same community and It's not good when various groups become isolated from every other group.