March 18, 2022 Show with Gary DeMar on “Is Russia a Key Player in Bible Prophecy?”

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And what is today's date anyway? Today is Friday, the 18th of March, 2022, and I'm absolutely thrilled to have back on the program one of my favorite guests, Gary DeMar, who received his MDiv at Reform Theological Seminary, and he is president at American Vision, the author of countless essays, news articles, and more than 35 book titles, and featured guest on nearly every major news media outlet.

Russia, Bible Prophecy, and the Danger of Newspaper Exegesis

Today we are going to be addressing something very timely and very controversial. Is Russia a key player in Bible prophecy and the danger of sensationalizing Holy Scripture with the eisegesis of importing the current headlines of our day into the God-breathed texts?

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Gary DeMar.

Thank you for having me, Chris. I appreciate it.

Oh, it's my pleasure. Tell our listeners who are unfamiliar with you, though. I think it's probably going to be a tiny percentage of the audience of Iron Sharpens Iron who are not familiar with you, but tell our listeners about American Vision.

Well, American Vision went full-time in 1981, mostly doing that research, so academic enterprise. We try to make that available to Christians, and we deal with America's Christian history. That's one of the reasons why it's called American Vision, because it started off dealing with America's Christian history, and then we developed that into more of a biblical worldview ministry, and I did a series of books in the 1980s called God and Government, three volumes, and did a marathon on the topic of God and Government, and invariably there'd be someone in the audience who would ask the question, why are we bothering with this since Jesus is coming back soon?

Now remember, this was in the 1980s. And by hell, we're becoming a nation again in 1948. We're becoming a nation again in 1948. And then Matthew chapter 24, it states that this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

If you do the math, 1948 plus 40 was 1988, and he maintained that the rapture would come sometime during that period of time from 1981 to 1988. He also wrote a book called The 1980s Countdown to Armageddon.

So eschatology in the end times has been around for a very, very long time. The 1970s and 1980s was kind of a hotbed for all of this. The year 2000 also was significant, and it needs to be dealt with because I think it can be dangerous, you know, considering what we are seeing today with Russia, Ukraine, possible people saying that this is a prelude to the end, the rapture, whatever the case might be.

In fact, I've got something from I'm going to quote something here. Tell me, who said this? Ezekiel tells us that Gog, the nation that will lead all the other powers of darkness against Israel, for generations that Gog must be Russia.

What other powerful nation is to the north of Israel? None. But it didn't seem to make sense before the Russian Revolution when Russia was a Christian nation. Now it does. Now that Russia has become communistic and atheistic, set itself against Gog.

Now it fits the description. So who said that?

Hal Lindsey?

Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan. Wow. That Ronald Reagan gave at a dinner with California legislators in 1971. So we're looking at, you know, more than 50 years ago. And it's quoted in Paul Boyer's book, When Time Shall Be No More, Prophecy, Belief, and Modern Culture, which was published in 1992.

So the point I'm making here is somebody, you know, introduced him to this, and in order maybe to gather the evangelical vote, he picked on something that was going to be an end time player regarding Israel.

And, again, that book was written in 1970. So that book was written, you know, 70, well, 50 some years ago, published in 1970. So we're looking at, you know, 50 years. And Reagan says this, Jeremiah.

Yeah, we enjoyed a fair amount of silence, not complete silence, but a fair amount of silence comparative to what we were experiencing before during the Cold War and, you know, even subsequent to the Cold War.

But since there had been a significant period of time where there was nothing alarming going on involving Russia in the news, we kind of heard the folks that are championing that kind of eschatology. They were simmering down their rhetoric or just avoiding it to a degree.

But now, of course, we don't even know if we're going to be in a nuclear war here in the United States because of what we see unfolding every day. And, of course, those that want to draw attention to their ministries and to their appearance to some as having certain insight into what will happen that others don't have, they're going to draw a new audience.

They're going to sell more books. And I don't want to impugn motives on all of them because there are people that just sincerely believe these things and think that it's their duty to warn us about them.

But it's interesting how excited and urgent many of these folks are about warning us about some of these end-time scenarios that they believe will occur when they believe none of us who are born-again believers will be here to experience a lot of them since they believe that the tribulation period is a future event that the church will be spared from.

You follow the more popular late great planetary themes, but you'll find the terms God wanting at the end of the thousand years. So no premillennial view would not be taking place during the seven-year period of the Great Tribulation.

It wouldn't be occurring until near the end of the thousand years of Revelation 20. This whole scenario, if it's indeed future, is irrelevant today because it can take place for at least another thousand years.

But prophecy writers, you can't, I don't make any money on the prophecy books, I don't get any royalties, but prophecy books are big sellers. People want to know about the future. My guess is most people want to know more about the future than they do the past.

And you have to pick current events, and while not being specific in terms of date, or even the year, you can say, well, it's coming, you know, wars and rumors of wars, and the gospel going to all the world, and Russia, and rumors and rumors of wars, imagine 24 -6, earthquakes in various places.

Keep in mind, and I have a large library, a very, very large library, related to prophecies that are being used today, I'm not real sure, crafted in the 1600s by Christ.

Yes, the London Baptist Confession of Faith originally did do that. Most Reformed Baptists do not include that, even if they're strict confessionalists, not because they're soft on the Pope, but because they just have a different eschatological understanding of him.

Identifying the papacy, Roman Catholicism, brought out. But that was the standard view. The majority of the Reformers saw the Roman Catholic Church as the Antichrist, a man of lawlessness.

And it'd be easy to see why. Especially then.

You don't need a prophetic text. You can evaluate looking at the doctrinal diversions within the Roman Catholic Church and comparing Scripture with that. It's the same thing with any cult, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, et cetera.

You don't need a prophetic text telling you that these people were going to come on the scene. You just deal with a Jehovah's Witness, and you deal with the deity of Christ, and deal with other types of things.

You just do it on the basis of what Scripture has to say about it. So what we're seeing today with Russia and Ukraine, you don't need a prophetic text to see that what's going on over there is horrific, and there needs to be a solution to it.

You have to link it up to Bible prophecy to make it relevant for us today.

Right.

And before we go any further, I want to announce something that I don't want to forget, because it's coming up this weekend. For those of you who live near or in Springfield, Tennessee, which is near Nashville, Gary is going to be speaking this weekend at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Springfield, Tennessee.

He's going to be speaking there this Saturday, this tomorrow, 10 a .m. and 7 p .m., and then on Sunday at 10 .30 a .m. and 6 p .m. And if you want more details about how to get there and other information, you can go to bbclife .online.

That's bbclife .online. And can you tell us something about some of your session topics?

Well, Casey, how could anyone believe this? And what I want to do is to demonstrate and show that this has been a long time coming, and the people behind all of this, and we need to start. We're going to deal with these issues.

It's not enough just to deal with, you know, race between church and state, abortion, homosexuality, transgenderism. It's not enough just to deal with those things. We need to understand what ideas are promoting it, why they are promoting it.

It's a danger. It will be tomorrow morning at 10 o 'clock. In the evening, I'm going to be dealing with how Christians often try to use the Bible not to be involved in the issues of the day. Jesus didn't get mixed up in politics.

There's a separation between church and state and other people. We should just preach the gospel. We're living in the last days. Our citizenship is in heaven. Paul is seemingly legitimate being involved.

And so this Sunday morning, I'll be dealing with 2 Timothy chapter 3. And then on Sunday evening, I will be comparing the various issues. What are they?

Well, I hope my friend George Grant and some of his congregation and also my friend Bill Sasser, who is the pastor of Grace Church at Franklin right near Springfield, Tennessee, who actually sponsors the show.

And I hope my former pastor, one of my former pastors, Mark Romaldi, who is the pastor of Sovereign Grace Church in Greenbrier, Tennessee, very close to Springfield. I hope that they will attend this and inform their congregation, at least the Saturday sessions, obviously.

And you can also call Bethlehem Baptist Church at 615 -643 -0333, 615 -643 -0333. And again, the website is bbclife .online, bbclife .online. Gary, so if you want to pick up where you left off, but I also want to eventually get to, before we get to the break, how specifically some of the popular dispensationalists are arriving at the thought that Russia is a key player in end times prophecy.

And he has a 38 and 39. Nothing new. People look at and then take this passage, Ezekiel 38 and 39, and apply it. You go back to the 16th century, when you read the context of Ezekiel 38 and 39, how they could do that in terms of the Roman Catholic Church, but also in terms of the armaments that are used in Ezekiel 38 and 39.

It's remarkable, as we go through this, the Bible literally says 39.

Now, there is a key word, Rus, I believe it's pronounced, that is commonly attributed to Russia. And according to you, anybody who has a cursory knowledge of the original languages should know that that does not mean Russia.

In the many years I've been doing this is to get people into the scriptures themselves and begin to actually read the text. And the first thing I always ask is, what does the text say? I remember being on a radio broadcast in North Carolina a number of years ago.

A woman called in about something related to prophecy. And she mentioned such and such. And I said, well, let me read this text to you. And I read it to her, and she still didn't get it. And I said, let me read it to you again, and this time I'll emphasize some of the words in here.

It took three readings for her to actually see what the text said. No interpretation in terms of what does the text say. You can't go to interpretation and then to application. Until you understand, you may not be able to interpret it, but if you don't at least acknowledge that it's like the Antichrist.

I don't know how many people have been writing about the possibility of an Antichrist. And I said, have you read the only text in the Bible that actually used the phrase Antichrist to see how the Bible defines Antichrist?

And then to compare what the Bible says about Antichrist with what you're claiming is the modern-day prophetic Antichrist. And I've even had people write whole books on the Antichrist. The cursory way actually used, because if they actually read the definition of Antichrist, the timing of Antichrist, the when of Antichrist, and how many Antichrists there are, you couldn't apply it to what's taking place today.

Right. And of course, again, that doesn't mean that we who are Reformed and either post-millennial or amillennial, doesn't mean we are painting a softer picture of anyone. It's just that the word, the term Antichrist is used specifically to describe specific people who are heretics.

Right.

They deny the unique relation, when you read 1 John 2, 1 John 4, you get this very specific definition of Antichrist, plus you get a definition, you also get an expression of when these Antichrists, 1 John 2, verse 22, John says, they came out from among us.

Right. That's why I meant by heretics, because they did have a profession of some kind of connection to Jesus.

Yeah, and they eventually just wanted to go back to 1 John 2. It doesn't make any sense. Antichrist, there were many of them, and we know the when of them. You have to do this with everything. I'm trying to get Christians to look at this.

It's about being a Berean, and what a Berean does daily, to see whether these things are right to do. I'm not asking, I'm not telling Christians, you have to believe what I believe. You know, scrutinize my stuff just like you scrutinize everyone else's.

Right.

Right.

And what you were saying before reminded me about something that I have, I just cannot help but laugh every time I remember it. And it's not about eschatology, but years ago, in the 90s, when I first started arranging debates between our mutual friend, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and Roman Catholic apologists, a person that I knew who was Arminian came to pick up the posters for the debate because he loved these debates.

He was very excited about it. And he said to me, you know, I love James White, but there's one thing I hate about him. It's his Calvinism. And I said, well, I just want you to explain to me what this means.

I picked up a Bible. He saw me pick up a Bible. I opened it to Romans 9, and I read Romans 9. I didn't do anything else. I just read out loud Romans 9. And he said, do you know who believes that? The biggest cult in the world, the Muslim religion.

I said, do you realize I just read the Apostle Paul's epistle to the Romans, the God-breathed words in our New Testament? He goes, yeah, but it's what you read into it. I said, I didn't read anything into it.

I just read it. I didn't exegete it. I didn't explain it.

Whatever.

But it's interesting how people, the lenses through which they are seeing something, even in Scripture, just totally destroys the intent of the original authors because of their.

Presuppositions.

Well, let me read you this. And this was it. Joshua checked and lived in it. And the Lord gave them rest on every side according to all that he had sworn to their fathers. And no one of all the enemies stood before them.

The Lord gave all their enemies into their hands. Not one of the good promises which the Lord had made to the house of Israel failed, all came to pass. Now that included that the Lord gave Israel all the land which he had sworn to give to their fathers.

And I said, now if you go to 1 Kings chapter 4 verse 21, the actual geography of what was to be given is by Solomon. But she had a real hard time with that. And I said, look, I'm just reading what the text says.

But even some very prominent Bible scholars, Old Testament scholars, they read Joshua chapter 21 verses 43 through 44 and said, well, yeah, it says that. It isn't on me to prove something different. The burden of proof is on others to prove something different based upon what the text.

Again, just go back into Scripture. And the next step is how do I figure out what this means?

And we have to go to our first break right now, if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Gary DeMar about this issue. Does Russia play a key role in Bible prophecy and end times prophecy, last days prophecy, eschatology?

Please send in your email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Please give us a first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Gary DeMar right after these messages. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

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The Role of Rosh, Ezekiel 38–39, and Literal Interpretation

Welcome back. If you just tuned us in, our guest today is author Gary DeMar who is president of American Vision. We are discussing the theme, Is Russia a Key Player in Bible Prophecy? The Danger of Sensationalizing Holy Scripture with the Eisegesis of Importing the Current Headlines of Our Day into the God-Breathed Texts.

And our email address if you have a question is chrisorensen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York who said, if I'm not mistaken you said earlier that there was use of the word Rosh to identify Russia even in the 1600s by some.

Did they have an identical take on what Russia's role would be in Bible prophecy that was different from dispensationalists, which as we know, dispensationalism didn't even arrive on the scene until the 19th century, although some of its elements may have pre-existed that.

Oh, okay.

Heisenberg and Ezekiel, he makes mention of this fact that some people say it's Russia, Jerusalem, north of Israel, Moscow. If you go all the way back, the time before Rosh was identified as Rome. So whatever the big bad guy was at any particular time in history, the Gog and Magog, and a thousand by Frank Gummerloch called the Day and the Hour, generation by generation, almost 2 ,000 examples of things applying to their day.

And so the Goths, Muslims, Islam comes up. Whoever was ever the bad guy that day, because the weaponry, and we haven't gotten to that yet, but because of the weaponry that you find in Ezekiel 38 and 39, you could see how it could be applied because swords and horses and spears and bows and arrows were used in their day.

And what you have to do today to manipulate this text in order to make it fit our day is something they didn't have to do back in the newspaper exegesis. You know, you see something in the newspaper, you read about it, and you say, wow, that's a beast-like character, so maybe that's the beast of Revelation chapter 13.

This never changes. This never changes. You know, Hal Lindsey's Late Great Planet Earth sold probably close to 30 million copies in the 1970s. That was 52 years ago. You know, Hal, what if you're wrong about this?

This was, I think, an article that was written in 1977. What if you're wrong about this between being a hero and a bum? I guess I'll be a bum.

He was wrong.

He was wrong, and yet he's still on. I think he's still on the panel somewhere, still. One way we know can only mean studying the origin of words. The Hebrew word rosh that is found in Ezekiel 38 -2 and Ezekiel 39 -1 is said to be a people group that refers to modern-day Russia.

Their argument rests on the belief that rosh sounds like Russia. That is a horrible way to say it. There is a Hebrew word called sin. You know, if you were to transliterate it, it would be S-I-N, the wilderness of sin.

It has nothing to do with the English word sin, the way we use that word. That's one of the more difficult reasons Hebrew is to understand or learn the vocabulary because there are very, very few between English words, unless you already know a little bit of Hebrew, like, you know, shalom, or the word rosh, or chief.

And so one of the chief holy day in Israel is Rosh Hashanah, the Hebrew New Year. Rosh is the Hebrew Bible, and it means head or chief. That's what it is. It's not a place name. And the best commentaries on certain books of the Bible, the best comment, the two-volume commentary by Daniel I. Block.

And he argues that the particular identification of rosh is possibly anachronistic and based on faulty etymology. There are semblance of sound similarities between rosh and rosh being purely accidental.

But part of the problem is, and look, I'm a fan of the New American Standard Bible, but I think it gets it wrong. Ezekiel 38, the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshach and Tubal and prophesy against him.

The Lord God, behold, I'm against you of Tubal. And it's interesting, in Ezekiel 38, 2 and 3, where rosh is found, it's translated in the New American Standard Bible, and it's not just in the New American Standard Bible.

It's prince of Rosh. But if you go to chapter 39, 39 .1, and you, son of man, prophesy against God, God, behold, I'm against you, O God, prince of Rosh, Meshach and Tubal. But there's a note. There's a note here where it says prince of Rosh, and you go into the margin column where the notes are, and it says, or chief prince of Meshach.

So what's the better translation? In the Old Testament, it means head or chief, and never used, and not translation. And that's how a block, in fact, translates it. He says that's the best way. Hengstenberg, Rosh, as the name of a people, does not occur in all the Old Testament.

Charles Ryrie, Charles Ryrie, who was a distensationalist, the Ryrie Study Bible, and here's what he says. The prince of Rosh is better translated as the chief prince of Meshach, and it sounds like Russia, therefore this must be Russia, and Russia is north of Israel, so this has got to be Russia.

And some translation has it, you know. And then you have to reinterpret the entire outside of the nation in order to get to that.

So not all dispensationalists, even in our day, would attribute Rosh to Russia.

I'll give you another example. I have a Netanyahu. The word Rosh is there. Why is that? That's why the word Rosh. It's a very common manual block. It does a tremendous job. It's really hard otherwise to get to this point.

But you've got very popular guys like David Jeremiah, you know. And so what I did is I thought, well, let me just find out Roussia. And so it's made up of one, two. The only common between the two of them is the Hebrew word res.

Even if you didn't know Hebrew, they aren't anything alike. And so, again, if you go back and just do a little bit of homework on this, you won't be led astray. Now, you may not figure out it's a leap in logic.

We have CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who says, I know that you can't read minds and hearts, but do you think a lot of the reason why many Christians fall for these kinds of wrong interpretations and eisegesis is because they get excited thinking that they are living in the days when prophecy from the Scripture is being fulfilled and also it is, in their minds, validating the truthfulness and accuracy of the Scripture?

I think that's very much what the other side is saying, people on my side are saying. And I know people who don't have a dog in this fight should know better, who have a much, much larger audience than I do, who aren't at least dealing with the critical analysis of this.

You know, other people say this and that about this. Maybe we need to make an evaluation of this. I was driving up, I don't know how much time we have before your next break, but I was on Megan Kelly.

And Megan Kelly has been a great interviewer over the years, and she has a new podcast channel, I'm not real sure that's exactly where it is, but she interviewed Robert Kennedy Jr. for four hours.

Wow. In fact, could you pick up where you left off there? Because that's a very important comment you're entering into. Because we have to get to our midway break. So pick up where you left off with Megan Kelly interviewing Robert Kennedy Jr.

And if anybody has a question for Gary DeMar, send it to chrisarnson at gmail .com, and always give us your first name, city and state of residence, and country of residence. Please be patient with us, folks, this is the midway break that is a bit longer than the other breaks, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because they are required by the FCC to air their own public service announcements and other local things that localize Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio geographically to Lake City, Florida.

While they do that, we air our globally heard commercials. So please write down the information that our advertisers provide so that you can more frequently respond to them. And send in your questions to Gary DeMar to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away, we'll be right back with Gary DeMar after these messages.

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When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, president and professor of systematic and homiletical theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylors, South Carolina, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck White of the First Trinity Lutheran Church in Tonawanda, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.