May 25, 2018 Show with Brock Evans on “Fundamentalism: The Good, the Bad, & the Ugly”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now, here's our host, Chris Arnton.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the

planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnton, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 25th

day of May 2018, the first day, technically,

of Memorial Day weekend.

Well, I guess tomorrow would be the first day, but a lot of people would consider tonight the first night of

Memorial Day weekend, and I am delighted to have on the program today somebody

who made time for us today, very last minute—I'm talking five minutes

ago—to join us on the program.

His name is Pastor Brock Evans, and he is the pastor of Pittsburgh Baptist Church

in Pittsburgh, Indiana.

Today we're going to be talking about fundamentalism, the good, the bad, and the ugly, and it's my honor and

privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Brock Evans.

Yes, it's good.

Great.

Well, why don't you, even though you've been on the program before, give our listeners a brief description of Pittsburgh

Baptist Church there in Pittsburgh, Indiana.

Well, actually, today is

Christmas.

And I'm assuming when you say you're a student of the Southern Seminary, you mean the Southern Baptist Theological

Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky.

Yes, Christmas.

Now, I've had a number of the folks on the faculty on the show, including Dr. Al Mohler.

In fact, God willing, I am going to be seeing Dr. Al Mohler

next week at the Banner of Truth Conference, which is going to be held not

very far from where I'm sitting, at the Elizabethtown College in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania.

And he is one of the speakers, and I will be giving our listeners more information about that in a bit.

But—.

Great man.

Usually, we only do this for first -time guests,

and this is have you give your testimony of salvation.

But I don't believe the last time you were on, since you were only on, if I'm not mistaken, for a

part of the program, only half of the program, I think, we did not have time to have you

give your personal testimony.

But even if you did, there's nothing wrong with giving it twice.

So why don't you let our listeners know what kind of religious upbringing you had, if any, and what

providential circumstances our Sovereign Lord used in your life to draw you to himself and save you.

They do baptism?

I don't know.

Yes, they do.

They baptize by immersion, and they even baptize, I believe, in the

name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

But obviously, they don't believe—they have the same vocabulary, very often, with a different

dictionary.

They don't mean what we mean by that.

They don't believe in the Trinity, so.

Well, you might as well bring it up now.

I mean, that seems like a very compelling cliffhanger that you left us with.

Why don't you continue with that story?

Well, take us now in your journey, because I know that you came to discover

and embrace and fall in love with the doctrines of Sovereign Grace, and we'll get a

little bit more into detail on what exactly that means.

But tell us about that journey.

In fact, it would probably be good for us to summarize what those are, and then you could

continue with the remainder of the story where you just left off there.

The way that I like to summarize the doctrines of grace is that

salvation is of the Lord—that's a good one—and the fact

that God is in control, sovereignly, over all things, and that even

our salvation is a gift to certain people whom he has elected

before the foundation of the world, and that he leaves the rest of mankind

to their own condemnation, because all of us are from the same clay

of sinful, of depraved nature, of an inability

to please God in the flesh, even with a faith that we can somehow muster up

or conjure up and present to him as something that pleases him.

We cannot do anything that pleases God while we are in the flesh, and God in his

mercy rescues some of us out from that condition, and

no one has the right to say that God is unfair because everyone who is going to be condemned

deserves being condemned, and no one who was saved deserves being saved.

And of course, you could add anything that you'd like to that.

That was just off the top of my head summary there.

No, I—.

Well, you know, obviously that's not true, but I have heard from some

honest men who even say they despise Calvinism, that you can hardly

have an adequate library without any books in there that weren't written by

Calvinists.

Even from some really anti -Calvinistic people, they have admitted that.

Right, and I can recall years

ago when I still worked for WMCA radio, I worked there for 15 years, and on

occasion I would fill in for the talk show host, Andy Anderson.

He had a program that originally was called New York

Live, and then they changed it to Andy Anderson Live.

But I can remember when I would do a program on the doctrines of grace, aka

Calvinism, aka Reformed theology, there would be people, especially one person in

particular I can remember, who would call in with an anonymous name, and he was

terrified that he was not of the elect.

And when I asked him, well, have you repented and do you believe in Jesus Christ?

And he said, yes, I do.

Are you following Christ?

Are you in love with Christ?

Are you immersed in his word?

Are you a member of a local Bible -believing church?

And he affirmed all of those things.

And I said, well, there is no way that a person on Judgment Day

is going to be cast into hell who truly has come to

embrace Christ as his only hope for salvation, has repented of his sin, and even though he

continues to sin, still has a life that is marked with

repentance, an ongoing grief over sin and an ongoing repentance

for the remainder of his life, even if he falls into seasons of sin and backslides, he will get up

and return to his Lord and follow him.

I said, there's no way that there's somebody going to be told by God on Judgment Day who fits that

description, who's going to say, wait a minute, we're looking through our Rolodex here and you're not of the elect, I'm sorry, you're going to

hell.

The only people who manifest those character traits

of their life are those who are of the elect.

Am I right?

Right.

Now, I think I interrupted you, though, where you were coming to the place where you discovered, by reading the Bible alone,

not through reading a book by a theologically -reformed person, but by

just reading the scriptures, but continue where you left off there.

Well, I mean...

What do you mean by three or four years into the whole thing?

What do you mean by that?

Well, I mean into my...

Okay.

He

said,

now,

who do

you

say

I

am?

And Peter says, you are the Christ.

Amen.

Well, we're going to our first break right now.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live

outside the USA.

And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you are in disagreement with your own pastor over what we're talking about, your

own spouse, or perhaps you're a pastor, you disagree with your own congregation, or your own fellow

elders, or your own denomination, fellowship, brotherhood, whatever the case is.

Perhaps you're not even a Christian, and you don't want to draw attention to your identity.

We understand that, and you can email us anonymously.

But other than that, please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence, if you live outside the USA.

Don't go away.

God willing, we'll be right back with Brock Evans and more of Fundamentalism, the Good, the Bad,

and the Ugly.

Iron Sharpens Iron welcomes Solid Rock Remodeling to our family of sponsors.

Serving South Central Pennsylvania, Solid Rock Remodeling is focused on discovering,

understanding, and exceeding your expectations.

They deliver personalized project solutions with exceptional results.

Solid Rock Remodeling offers a full range of home renovations, including kitchen and bath

remodeling, decks, porches, windows and doors, roof and siding, and

more.

For a clear, detailed professional estimate, call this trustworthy team of problem solvers

who provide superior results that stand the test of time.

Call Solid Rock Remodeling at 717 -697 -1981.

717 -697 -1981.

Or visit solidrockremodeling .com.

That's solidrockremodeling .com.

Solid Rock Remodeling, bringing new life to your home.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune into A Visit to the Pastors' Study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 pm Eastern Time on WLIE Radio,

www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the Pastors' Study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for A Visit to the Pastors' Study, because everyone needs

a pastor.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at Solid -Ground -Books .com.

That's Solid -Ground -Books .com, and see what priceless literary gems from the past to

present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And please go to Solid -Ground -Books .com for ideas for Father's Day gifts.

Why not give a gift to your dad or to anybody that you know who's special in your life who is a dad?

It could even be your son who's a dad.

Why not give a gift that the Lord could use to bring that person to eternal

life?

And that's Solid -Ground -Books .com.

And now, obviously, I believe in the sovereignty of God, and that's a part, a very crucial part of our discussion

today.

So the Lord could use anything to bring somebody to eternal life, anything that he chooses that

somehow leads them to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ.

But specifically, why not use or choose a gift that

specifically will include the gospel and include the rich

and precious truths of Holy Scripture in it?

And so do a lot of your shopping needs, or go to

Solid -Ground -Books .com, Solid -Ground -Books .com for a lot of your shopping needs,

especially when it comes to gift -giving, because we not only have Father's Day coming up, but all kinds of events.

There's a lot of people who have their anniversaries in the summertime, and so on.

So please remember always to tell Solid -Ground Christian Books that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen

on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

We are now back with Brock Evans, pastor of Pittsburgh Baptist Church in Pittsburgh, Indiana.

We are discussing fundamentalism, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

And basically when you came to see these truths,

I'm assuming since you got this directly from the scriptures, you didn't even have a label for this,

but you saw the truths of the doctrines of grace, that we owe

100 of our salvation to God, and even the faith

that we present to Him is a gift to us from Him.

We cannot even say that we somehow were better than our neighbor

because we eventually cried out to Him in faith, whereas they didn't,

because the only thing that we can respond to that is gratitude to God

for giving us that faith.

We cannot say that we are smarter than our neighbor, more humble than our neighbor, more religious than our neighbor,

more sensitive over our sin than our neighbor, more wise than our neighbor, whatever

the case is, if someone takes any kind of an ounce of

credit for the faith that they present to God, they are in some way saying that they

are better than their lost neighbor, aren't they, Brock?

Right.

Wait, can you say that again?

What?

Yeah.

I said, there I go with my elitism -ish.

Oh.

Well, there's nothing wrong with

the King James.

I would say that most Christians who are 50 or over likely

had their raising in the faith, their upbringing in the faith through

the King James, and that's been a precious gift from God that has led

many to salvation for centuries.

Right. Right.

And that's one of the things that our King James -only friends never seem to want to

admit or recognize.

Just because someone believes that there are other modern translations,

or should I say that there are modern translations, not other modern translations, that

are not only the Word of God, but that are perhaps even superior in their rendering,

the translation into English.

Just because we believe that does not mean we hate the King James Bible.

There seems to be only two options for King James -only.

Either you love it and only use it and consider all else satanic and rubbish,

or you hate the King James Bible.

There's no middle ground for them.

To a lot of...

Is that what is also known as cage stage?

Yes.

Food,

people,

and...

Right, and we should also say in the outset that there are

fundamentalists who believe in the doctrines of sovereign grace.

I mean, there's a divide amongst the landmark Baptists, for instance, and I know

that not all fundamentalists are landmark Baptists, in fact, the landmarkers today would be a

minority amongst fundamentalists, but they would, many of them would be in

lockstep with other fundamentalists except that their views

that are uniquely landmark, and they are divided because there are some that

are vociferous Calvinists, although they may not use the.

Term.

They are vociferous and very strong adherents to the doctrines of sovereign grace and are

very critical of their other landmark brethren that are

free will believing in the sense that libertarian free will, unfettered free will,

and so we have to make it clear that not everybody who identifies themselves as a

fundamentalist is an anti -Calvinist or even a non -Calvinist.

And the term came about during what is known as the

fundamentalist modernist controversy where denominations were being split

because there were liberals going into apostasy and

destroying the theological heritage of denominations and fellowships, so therefore

you had the rise of what were known as the fundamentalists, and those included many

Calvinists like J. Gresham Machen, who was one of the founders of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church and

Westminster Seminary after Princeton had come to collapse by the weight of

liberalism and so on, so it is not necessarily an ugly word in and of itself.

If you call me a fundamentalist, that's the problem.

Yeah well you will often hear people in the media refer in a very broad brushing way

to anyone who is conservative and is a Christian as a fundamentalist, and they will

also mix together with Baptists and Pentecostals and Charismatics,

and you will have fundamentalist Baptists who vary in their opinion on

Pentecostals and Charismatics, but you will have a considerable number of them not even believing that Pentecostals can be

saved in their state as a Pentecostal.

So it is a term that is very broad brushed, and it's kind of funny when I hear

of people in the media being described as fundamentalists that I know from just having some kind of

knowledge of what they teach and believe and write about and preach about that they are really only moderately conservative.

You

know

I

want

to

say

You're talking about as far as church polity that they typically will deny plurality of elders

and have one pastor.

And of course a lot of what you're saying, we have to be very careful not to be guilty of bearing false

witness.

You're talking about what is among the ugliest of

representatives of what is called fundamentalism that would identify themselves that way, because

you and I know precious brothers in Christ who are very humble, very Christ -like,

that would not fit the description that you're reading or that should I say that you're

conveying at all.

And

we're

all

on

a

journey

You said bitter, not better.

B -I -T -T -E -R, right?

Right. Bitter.

I was very bitter.

Yeah, well, one of the things that's ironic about what is

bad about fundamentalism is that they have departed from the

concept of what that term even means.

They have drifted from having the fundamentals of the faith being a

primary concern, and of course we always have to repeat ourselves, I'm not broad -brushing, I'm not saying everybody who calls

themselves a fundamentalist, but I'm talking about the worst element of it.

They are more concerned about a lot of exterior superficial things, the things that even are

important, but they are not of primary importance.

It is not of primary importance if a woman wears feminine

slacks.

To say that a woman who wears pants is a wicked woman in disobedience to

God, and those kinds of things.

I know of a church that disfellowshipped another church because some of

the men who were on the softball team of another church wore shorts to a

softball game in the summer.

You have these things that have nothing to do with the gospel, and churches can be

caught up in being so focused on just those things

that they're not even really preaching the message of Christ.

Am I right?

Talk about dress.

To not be provocative sexually in the way you dress.

Right.

Not only that.

Well, we have to go to our midway break right now.

This is our longer than normal break.

It's 12 minutes long because Grace Life Radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida

requires of us a 12 -minute break between the two major segments of the program, so please take this time

to write questions for our guest, Brock Evans, and also to write down information

provided by our advertisers so that you can patronize them because that's one way our

advertisers are going to not only be more desirous of sponsoring the show, but

more financially capable of sponsoring the show if you patronize them.

So send us an email, though, with your questions to PastorBrockEvans at ChrisArnzen at

gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com, and please give us your first name,

your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

God willing, we'll be right back after these messages with Pastor Brock Evans and our discussion on

Fundamentalism, the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

Thank you for joining us for this

edition of

Fundamentalism, the

Good, the

Bad,

and

the

Ugly.

Thank you for

joining us

for this

edition of Fundamentalism, the

Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

Thank

you for joining us for this

edition of Fundamentalism, the

Good, the Bad, and the

Ugly.

Thank you for joining us for this edition

of Fundamentalism, the

Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

Thank you for joining us for this

edition of Fundamentalism, the

Good, the Bad, and.

The Ugly.

Thank you for joining us

for this edition of

Fundamentalism, the

Good, the

Bad, and.

The Ugly.

Thank you for joining us for this

edition of

Fundamentalism, the Good,

the Bad, and.

The Ugly.

Thank you for joining

us for this

edition of

Fundamentalism,

the Good, the Bad, and

the Ugly.

Thank you for

joining us for this

edition of

Fundamentalism, the Good,

the Bad, and

the Ugly.

Thank you for joining us for

this edition of

Fundamentalism, the Good, the

Bad, and

the Ugly.

Thank you for joining us for this

edition of

Fundamentalism,

the Good,

the Bad, and.

Thank you for joining us for this edition of Fundamentalism, the Good, the Bad, and.

Thank you for

joining us

for this edition of

Fundamentalism, the Good, the

Bad,

and.

Thank you for joining us for this

edition of

Fundamentalism,

the Good, the Bad, and.

Thank you for joining us for this edition of Fundamentalism, the Good, the Bad, and.

Please remember to mention to Todd and Patty Jennings, the owner of CVBBS .com, that you heard about them

from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Before I return to my guest, Brock Evans, on our discussion

of Fundamentalism, the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, we just have some important announcements to make.

First of all my guest this Monday the 28th of May

live in the studio Memorial Day we are going to be joined by Pastor

Hensworth WC Jonas who is presiding elder

of the East Caribbean Baptist Mission.

He is here in the States.

Over the weekend will be preaching at Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle Pennsylvania where I am a member.

I'm looking forward to that and hopefully I will be there in time to hear that.

Because I happen to be preaching earlier in the morning at the Bethesda Mission which is a men's shelter I would

appreciate your prayer for me as I am once again preaching there

and it's I take that responsibility very seriously so I'm asking you please to pray

for me and my wisdom and my discernment in my proper and accurate

exegesis of the scripture and just pray that the Lord uses whatever I

have to say no matter how feeble my words may be to

open the eyes ears and hearts and minds of lost sinners in that room.

Monday I'm sorry Sunday but Monday as I said Hensworth WC Jonas will

be our guest and he will be discussing his book dancing with idolatry.

Are you bowing to a false God.

That's Monday May 28th 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern Time right here on Iron Sherpens

Iron Radio.

Then from Tuesday through Thursday of next week that's May 29th through the 31st

I will be at the banner of truth ministers conference in Elizabethtown Pennsylvania at the

Elizabethtown College.

The theme is ministers of Christ and the speakers include Alistair Begg Johnny Gibson Mark

Johnston Al Mohler David strain and Craig Troxell.

If you would like to register for the banner of truth US ministers conference go to banner of truth org.

Banner of truth org click on events and then click on US ministers conference.

Make sure you click US and not UK because they've already had UK conferences

there in the United Kingdom that have already come to a completion so you'll be directed to the wrong

information.

If you don't click US ministers conference that's banner of truth org.

Banner of truth org.

Please tell the folks at banner of truth that you heard about their conference and their ministry from Chris Aronson on

Iron Sherpens Iron Radio.

Then I am so delighted that they are now taking registration for the 2019

g3 conference.

It's going to be once again held God willing at the Georgia International Convention Center

in College Park Georgia which is a suburb of Atlanta and that will be

held from the 17th through the 19th of January.

There is also a Spanish conference on January 16th so

let anybody that you know who's bilingual or who exclusively speaks the Spanish language

let them know about that so they can register for that.

But the English -speaking conference is the 17th through the 19th and I

am so delighted that I am going to be once again God willing manning an exhibitors booth there

at the g3 conference that has come to mean a great deal

to this radio program because of the people who have discovered this program

by virtue of me being there by God's grace and providence and also who

first love radio the radio network that I am currently on they discovered me through

that as well so please try to register for that.

The speakers include Paul Washer, John Piper, David Platt, Stephen Lawson, Vody Baucom, Mark Dever,

Conrad M. Bayway, Tim Challies, Phil Johnson, Josh Bice, David Barcelo,

Salvador Gomez, Anthony Methenia, Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Radio, David Miller, Jeremy Volo,

Stephen Nichols, president of Reformation Bible College, the Bible College of Ligonier Ministries founded by R .C. Sproul,

Don Curran, Cindy Curran, Martha Peace, Chip Thornton, Chris King and Owen Stricken.

And if you'd like more information go to g3conference .com g3conference .com please tell the folks at g3

that you heard about them from Chris Arns and Iron Sharpens Iron Radio now last but not least if you love this

program and you don't want it to go away please go to ironsharpensironradio .com click support and then

click click to donate now.

That way you could donate instantaneously with a debit or credit card.

We are in urgent need of your funds.

Thankfully we had some very generous people Linda and Glenn in Hilltop Lakes

Texas who paid for our electric bill.

We are going to need a help with our rent coming up and other things to remain on the air.

Please if you love the show go to ironsharpensironradio .com click support and click

click to donate now.

If you prefer sending in checks the old -fashioned way via snail mail a mailing address will appear when you

click support at ironsharpensironradio .com.

If you want to advertise with us please send us an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put

advertising in the subject line.

As long as whatever it is you're advertising whether it's your church parachurch organization business

professional practice or special event as long as whatever it is is compatible with what we believe here.

You don't have to believe identically with what we believe here but you have to be promoting something that's compatible with

what we believe here.

Then we would love to help you launch an ad campaign because we surely could use the advertising dollars.

It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

That's also the email address to send in a question for our guest today Brock Evans pastor of Pittsburgh Baptist

Church in Pittsburgh Indiana.

We are discussing about fundamentalism the good the bad and the ugly.

And pastor Brock before we run out of time and we fail to focus on something important.

I think that we need to right now begin to speak about good things about fundamentalism.

And of course we're talking about fundamentalism within Christianity.

The immediate thing that comes to mind is that there are

multitudes innumerable souls that have been saved by the mercy and

grace and blood of Jesus Christ because they heard the gospel from a fundamentalist

pulpit and fundamentalists.

The best of that element are known for being a Bible focused a

group of believers.

And it would be shocking if I heard that there was a person

going to a fundamentalist church or belonging to one for a long period of time that did not hear

often the bare elements at the very least of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Wouldn't you.

Agree with

me on

that.

Yes and

the it's

funny

because

I know I know

folks

who.

Are died -in -the -wool Calvinists who were students at Bob Jones University for instance.

And they they weren't when they entered through the doors there but when they left they

were.

And and a friend of mine who is an Orthodox Presbyterian pastor now

he said he was asked by a teacher there on the faculty at BJU how did you become a

Calvinist.

And he his response was because Bible because Bob Jones University teaches us to

study the Word of God and that's how he came to become as you

did from the Word of God a believer in the doctrines of sovereign.

Grace yeah.

And also

I

don't know

how familiar

you are with

Steve

Pettit

the.

Current president but he is it has a lot different

attitude towards Calvinistic brethren in Christ and was not

long ago I guess it was about a year ago he was on the panel of a conference that sermon audio

orchestrated where every single one of the speakers was openly a

Calvinist and Steve Pettit certainly.

Sounded

like

one

yes

and

not

all of

the

secondary

and

tertiary

issues

that.

Fundamentalists bring up in their pulpits and even as a part of

church disciplinary matters or what have you are wrong.

I think that that for instance we should not have a totally

ambiguous attitude towards the way people dress.

We should not have an a totally nonchalant or indifferent attitude towards the music that is in

the church and many other things that perhaps the

fundamentalists are known to hobby horse on and to be

to over the board in the strictness with which they view those things because some of it really

boils down to taste rather than something that you could prove biblically.

But even they themselves have their disputes and arguments over those things.

And in fact obviously you know that there are there was a rule I don't know if it's still in place

but Bob Jones University used to require that their students be clean -shaven and there was

some kind of an attitude of a superior morality if one were to look

that way.

And yet you have heroes of the faith that they would even include on perhaps even unframed

paintings on their walls like Charles Spurgeon had a full beard and so on things that were you know I

have friends who are graduates of Bob Jones who said that they believed it was.

In fact they had a ban on wire rim glasses because because of the hippie error and

I don't even know how anybody could bring that into relevance into the 21st century because nobody's gonna even know what you're talking

about if you are opposed to wire rim glasses.

But but just because that is just because the

the the legalism that can be present in fundamentalist churches where those issues

are hobby -horsed where people are slandered because they may look a little

different than the pastor and the predominant number of people in the congregation.

Just because that happens doesn't mean that those issues are.

Totally

unimportant

really

at all

times.

And

of

course

there

are

things

going

on.

Within reform circles that are creating infighting and so on there

it's not like it's not like those who identify themselves as reformed or Calvinistic

or in some kind of bastion of perfection right.

Where everybody's in agreement.

There exactly there there are.

Because of the fact that we are all sinners on this planet until we're in glory

there is always going to be unfortunate consequences like that.

No matter how long you've been a Christian and no matter what church you belong

to no matter how faithful it is to the scriptures you're still going to be unfortunate things that

erupt.

And in fact I spend a lot of time on this program having

thoroughly knowledgeable individuals critique some of what rises up

in the name of reform theology and giving loving rebuke to

those who are perpetuating these things.

Because some of it's quite unnerving and scary.

And so it's it's not like fundamentalists of you know own the backyard on

this this phenomena which took that this phenomena that we're talking about but we are rapidly

running out of time so if anybody would like to join us I would.

I would urge you to do it now or forever.

Hold your peace because we're going through our final break right now and then.

We just have about 25 minutes left of the show.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

God willing we'll be back right after these messages from our sponsors.

Thriving Financial is.

Not your typical financial services provider.

As a membership organization we help Christians be wise with money and live generously every day.

And for the fourth year in a row we were named one of the world's most ethical companies by the ethosphere

Institute a leading international think -tank dedicated to the creation advancement and sharing of best

practices in business ethics.

Contact me Mike Gallagher financial consultant at seven one seven two five four six

four three three again seven one seven two five four six four three.

Three to learn more about the Thriving difference

finances and generosity.

That's the Thriving story.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

You.

Need to read.

Solid ground Christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of preachers to heart.

The mission of solid ground Christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since it's beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish God -centered Christ exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid ground -books .com that's solid

-ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you

can unearth from solid ground.

Solid ground Christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron.

Sharpens iron radio.

Hi I'm pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern time on WLIE radio

www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study.

By calling in with your questions our time will be lively useful and I assure you never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern time for a visit to the pastor's.

Study because everyone needs a pastor.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen and this is the final portion of today's program with pastor Brock

Evans of Pittsburgh Baptist Church Pittsburgh Indiana.

We are discussing fundamentalism the good the bad and the ugly.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question whether you agree with us whether you disagree with us or whether you're just not certain even if you're not

a Christian.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and pastor Brock.

Let's get into the ugly.

Now we kind of went from the bad to the good and now to the ugly rather than the order of the the theme of the show.

But I think what could be rightly categorized as ugly when it comes

to fundamentalism.

And of course we have to repeat we're not broad brushing everybody together who calls themselves fundamentalists

but that's actually one of the things that is in existence within

fundamentalism is doing that very thing broad brushing it is.

It is very what going back to a good thing that can be unfortunately turned into an

ugly thing is the concept of separation.

I believe that every born again Bible -believing Christian has to be in

some way or another a separatist.

One of the good things about fundamentalism is that his it has typically maintained

the warning that we cannot have union with those with false Gospels

like the Roman Catholic Church and other churches that clearly deny

salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

So that's a good thing.

But wouldn't you agree where this becomes ugly is where you have

genuine brother brothers and sisters in Christ who are being denied fellowship

and are being viewed as outcast because of different disagreements on tertiary

matters.

And they are being broad brushed with others who are

even further away and perhaps even might be those that could be accurately

called heretics or apostates there there is a broad brushing going on amongst a lot of these

folks that identify themselves as fundamentalist.

Isn't there.

Oh yeah

Finney clearly in fact people can go to my archive and if they type

in Finney if I in any why in the search engine they will hear they

will be able to hear an interview I did on Charles Finney with

Jerry Johnson who created a documentary on Finney.

And and it is all taken from Finney's own writing.

So it's not speculation it's not slander.

Finney was more of a Pelagian than the Roman Catholic Church is

Finney.

Finney involved grace and even a less serious

level of activity in the salvation of sinners than Catholics do.

And it's amazing how fundamentalists who are rightly vehemently opposed to the

Church of Rome and its heresies especially on salvation how they could adopt Finney as a hero.

And it's clearly out of ignorance of what.

About what Finney.

Actually

believed and

taught.

Yes

sure.

I

have

guests

on

this

program

that are.

Arminian and if they happen to have a an area of expertise that

I think makes an important program for people to learn about I am more than happy to invite an.

Arminian

Brethren

Christ on the

program.

I think where

I want to

say oh yeah it's

a great blessing.

Yeah well I

can.

I

can

clearly remember years ago at the former.

Church where I was a member on Long Island

that there were cage -stage Calvinists in the congregation

who were constantly being critical overly critical and even to a slanderously

level of the preaching at the church.

They were really hyper Calvinists.

And I can still remember one of them being

vehemently upset that the pastor in his opinion used Arminian language

in a sermon which was heretical and I said well he was actually quoting from the

scriptures choose this day whom he will serve from Joshua 24.

So you

gotta be.

But

but one of the ugly things that is very common amongst

fundamentalism and fundamentalist is bearing false witness

and out and out lying about people that disagree with you either

because you are sloppy and lazy and not doing your homework.

And some of that comes from what you were talking about before the banning of books.

Now even a reform pastor if he sees a young convert in the congregation

reading something that is heretical he's gonna warn the person if he's a good shepherd he will.

Or even a person who's a seasoned Christian who starts to change in a dangerous way the way they think

and behave because of something they're reading but to be overly cautious or to

the point of being a dictator on these things especially when you're talking about seasoned Christians

you're gonna have people who know nothing of what they speak when they are criticizing somebody from

outside their church or group you will.

It is rude.

It is the routine.

It's actually the rule rather than the exception for

anti -calvinist fundamentalists to merely quote other anti

-calvinists in regard to what we as reformed believers believe.

You could tell very often that these people have never even read a page of a noteworthy Calvinist.

Or you know it's amazing how so many anti -calvinists love Charles Haddon Spurgeon.

They can't have read very deeply in his his

his recorded sermons.

And I'm talking of course in writing not not on a not voice recordings but in his

in the volumes of his printed sermons and books that he wrote.

If you really are going to be reading a lot of Spurgeon you cannot walk away

thinking that he was not a Calvinist he was clearly a Calvinist.

But you have this slander of those outside your group because you

just didn't want to take the time to really plunge into the depths of the people that you are critiquing.

And I and that's that's that's not only true with people like us who are being

slandered.

I think it is very wrong.

And it's still a violation of the command not to bail bear false witness against your

neighbor when you are sloppy in the way that you publicly declare the

heresy of even a Roman Catholic or somebody who is in a false Church if you misrepresent

what they actually believe you know.

And there there's a lot of that.

There's a lot of caricaturing and comic book style critique

where you're not going to win a Catholic to Christ.

If he's listening to you and he knows you're lying or he knows that you're just ignorant

and don't even and you don't even know what.

He

believes.

Yeah

and I

think

another

element

that

could

be

categorized

as.

Ugly is when you are preaching to the

choir and you are beating a drum from a pulpit

regarding sins that those in your congregation are not typically guilty of.

You're only.

You're bringing up all of these overtly wicked things from the world

surrounding your your building homosexuality and adultery and fornication

and all kinds of thing drunkenness and drug addiction.

You may be constantly beating that drum but you are neglecting pricking the

consciences of the people that are sitting right there in those pews over the sins of pride over the

sins of other things that as Jerry Bridges would include in the book that he

wrote.

The late Jerry Bridges wrote a book called respectable sins and obviously he was saying that tongue -in -cheek he didn't

believe there was any respectable sin but he was saying that the the Christian Church at large

has categorized certain things as okay which are still an abomination in.

The

sight

of

God

just

because

they're

not

overtly

scandalous

and

you

know.

Ironically as anti ecumenical or anti

ecumenism as fundamentalists claim to be as a hallmark

of their existence they very often are themselves ecumenical

with the wrong people just because of surface -level

commonality like for instance you can have and of course fundamentalists

it's not a monolithic group.

There there's all different kinds of fundamentalists.

But you could have a church that will only

recommend people to attend services at another fundamentalist church that might be

too far away for somebody local to the other church to drive elsewhere

they might be recommending a church because they only use the King James Bible.

They have old -fashioned music in the church.

The women all wear dresses and the men all wear shirt and tie

to the church.

And they have this bare -bones surface -level things that they have in common.

And yet they might have a totally different hundred and eighty degree understanding of repentance.

Because that is a that is a big thing that is divided over in fundamentalist

circles is where you have some who believe in the heresies of easy believism and

cheap grace and decisional regeneration where you go up for an alter call and you recite a prayer you are

without question with certainty you are saved because you've recited this prayer.

Where you will have others who will be more on the same plane as those who are

historically reformed and Calvinistic who believe that repentance is a necessity for salvation.

So those those fundamentalists who agree

with the concept of the necessity of repentance should actually be viewing that as a

far more serious issue than the version of the the scriptures that is being used.

And whether or not women wear you know ladies slacks or

dresses and whether or not somebody is strumming on an acoustic guitar in a church or.

Something like that if

you

follow what I'm

saying well we do have six minutes so

oh you can.

You could do that as long as we have enough time to give your

contact

information.

That's

all.

Yeah

the

thing

that

is

bizarre.

As

vehemently.

Anti -roman Catholic as most fundamentalists are most that would call

themselves that their soteriology is a lot closer to Rome than it is to

ours.

As reformed Christians they seem to be oblivious to the fact

that their understanding of the nature of man and the level of depravity and

enslavement that he has because of the fall of Adam and other things

regarding the will of man and the abilities of man in man's natural state prior

to regeneration that are so much closer to Rome than

to what we would believe the Bible teaches.

So it's ironic isn't it that they that.

And that they very often even make the the outlandish claim that we who are reformed

are closer to Rome just because we may have Augustine as one of our heroes of the faith that

we might bring up in a sermon or a book or whatever.

Even Charles Spurgeon loved Augustine and so on.

But it is ironic isn't it that they are really in some ways a.

Step -cousin of

Catholicism.

Let me ask

you a

question

since we

have time a

lot.

More time than you thought.

One of the things that drives me nuts is this is an example of something that recently happened.

Maybe a year ago it happened where someone said that they were not going to an event.

A fundamentalist pastor said I'm not going there because those folks endorse rap

music in the church and I said well I know that most of those speakers involved

in that conference in no way involve rap music in their churches.

What are you talking about.

Well I know.

A couple of them will preach at churches that think it's okay now.

Isn't that you're bringing that to this.

The separation to a level that's.

Really straining

the the

boundaries

of

credulity

isn't

it.

And I

actually

said.

To that that brother that fundamentalist brother I said wouldn't you preach in a Catholic Church if you were invited and weren't given

you know you weren't forbidden to say anything.

That was the truth of the scripture.

Wouldn't you pray.

Wouldn't you preach in a Jehovah's Witness Kingdom Hall if you were invited to say anything that you wanted to say.

But anyway we are out of time now and I know that your website is pittsboroughbaptist .com

pittsboroughbaptist .com.

I want to thank you so much for being on the program especially with such little notice.

Pastor Brock.

I hope you all have a safe blessed and wonderful Memorial Day weekend and Lord's Day.

And I hope you will always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are.

A sinner.