WWUTT 2015 Q&A Reformed Baptist, Christian Sabbath, Genesis vs Revelation

What is the difference between a Reformed Baptist Church and any other kind of Baptist Church? How far do we take the laws of the

Sabbath as Christians? And how do we read Genesis versus Revelation? The answers to these questions and others when we

Understand the Text. This is

When we Understand the Text, a daily study in God's Word, where faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the

Word of Christ. Tell your friends about our ministry at www .utt .com. Here once again is

Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. Well, instead of moving on to the next Psalm, let's go all the way back.

All the way back. To the very first Psalm. Okay. So we're going to start at the beginning of the book. Sure. So this is

Psalm 1, which we had mentioned on an episode of the broadcast recently.

Yep. So I thought, hey, let's just go ahead and go all the way back to the beginning. We'll read Psalm 1. We'll start from there.

All right. How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, nor stand in the way of sinners, nor sit in the seat of scoffers!

But his delight is in the law of Yahweh, and in his law he meditates day and night.

And he will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in its season, and its leaf does not wither.

And in whatever he does, he prospers. The wicked are not so, but they are like chaff which the wind drives away.

Therefore the wicked will not rise in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For Yahweh knows the way of the righteous, but the way of the wicked will perish.

Some reassuring words, too, as we turn on the news and we see the wickedness and evil that is going on in the world on a daily basis.

That is an evergreen statement, by the way. Not just related to things that are happening on the day that you're listening to this.

Right. But say you come back to this episode a year or two from now, it will still be true.

Yep. There will be a different set of problems going on in the world. There will be a whole other palette of wickedness.

Yeah. And yet it is still true that the wicked will not stand in the judgment, and God knows the way of the righteous.

That's right. So commit yourself to the way of the Lord, to holiness.

Think of the words of Hebrews 12. Let us put aside every weight and every sin that entangles and run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the author and the perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of God.

So we also must put off anything that hinders us, any sin which keeps us from growing in our sanctification or in holiness, looking to Christ, walking in the righteousness that he has clothed us in.

No matter what's going on in the world today, those are the disciplines that we must continue in every day.

And teach those around us. Yeah. Definitely. I think it's okay to be researching in light of things that are happening in the world and wondering, what does

Scripture have to say about this? That's okay. But don't get on a hobby horse where you're completely dedicated to just this subject, and you think that things that are happening in the world, this that's happening in the world right now, this is definitely this prophecy or that or whatever.

Because then you're actually reading Scripture in light of what's happening in the world. Right. Not looking at the world in light of what

Scripture says. So be careful about those hobby horses. The commitment on the part of the

Christian should be every day a pursuit of holiness. Yeah. As Jesus said, on the day that he returns, he expects to find faithful and working servants.

Yeah, that's true. Not, hey, thanks for teaching that eschatology class at the time that there was a war going on in Israel.

Yeah. But we're continuing faithfully in all things. If you're married, you still got a spouse that you can minister to and with.

You still have children that you need to minister to, people in your church that you minister with.

Those kinds of things, still important, no matter what's happening in the world. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you.

I was just thinking, I mean, there's people who are single in the church that they probably are lonely.

So that's a great way to fellowship with them and grow with them. And just spend time with, find a need and spend your quality time there.

With people. Right, like where you can physically be. Yeah, right.

Is what I was more or less indicating. Yeah, I was having a conversation with a friend recently, too, about people who are lonely will often not come out and say, hey,

I'm lonely. Right. Well, I mean, you don't really realize you're lonely. Like, I mean, there are times that I'm by myself and, you know, for an extended period of time.

Granted, it's not been that long at a time. But it's, you know, and then once I get with my family or I get with my friends or I get with, you know, or a church or Bible study, something like that.

And then I'm always like, oh, I was missing this. I know, right. I just didn't realize it, you know.

Because you just, you don't focus on what you're missing. Now, I have had people come to me and say,

I'm experiencing loneliness right now. What do I do about this? Right. And they might even be surrounded by people, but still feel like they're lonely.

I've had those occasions before. But most of the time, a person is not going to express that they're lonely. And like you said, maybe they don't even know that they're lonely.

Right. Maybe they don't know that's the problem. Yeah. So a continued need for fellowship, for going out and reaching out to people, like the love we're supposed to be exhibiting when

Christ tells us to love each other, that doesn't mean we just be nice or don't be mean to people.

Right. And that's the way that we occasionally translate love one another. Just don't be mean to them. Right. But you do need to actually find ways that you can show love.

Right. And contribute to others and be kind, as it said in Romans 12, outdo one another in showing honor.

Right. And I tell you what, pie is never a bad idea. Make Becky a pie.

That'll get the loneliness out of her real quick. I wasn't talking to me. That's my love language, though, is to make a pie and go and share it with friends and give it to people.

Yeah, bless somebody with a pie. Yeah. That's right. Well, somehow we got there from Psalm 1. Yeah. There's nothing about pie in there.

There wasn't. But just the continued faithfulness, just like we were saying, loving one another is an intentional exercise.

It is. Yes. So pursuing righteousness and being holy. Right. You gotta be intentional about those things. Yeah. It doesn't just happen just because you don't go toward the sinful thing.

It's not in our nature. Right. If you're not in regular pursuit of holiness, then what are you doing?

Right. You're going toward sinful things. Right. You might think, well, I'm not actively sinning, but then come to find you're being slothful.

Right. You're being lazy. You're being apathetic. You're not considering the needs of others ahead of your own.

Yeah. So there is – when we talk about walking in righteousness, Yahweh knows the way of the righteous.

I mean, there's a – you're actually going somewhere. You know? Well, isn't it like you're either of your father in heaven or your father the devil?

Right. There's no in between. Yeah. So either you're walking in righteousness or you're –

In wickedness. Yeah. Is the contrast in Psalm 1. Right. So continue to meditate on the

Psalms. Think about those things daily. Memorize Psalms. Let the Word of Christ come back into your mind and in your heart.

And grow in the faith that we have that has been given to us by the Lord. This is the Friday edition of When We Understand the

Text, when we take questions from the listeners. And you can submit those questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

Babe, our first couple of questions here actually have to do with being Reformed Baptist. Oh, okay.

Since it has been announced that we are joining Providence Reformed Baptist Church in Casa Grande, Arizona.

Yes. And moving that way – hopefully that first week of November, around November 1. That's our target date.

Yeah. That we're moving out that way. If you haven't heard the announcement, we love our church. We do.

First Baptist in Lindale. But I am getting back to preaching again. So I've been called to be pastor at Providence Reformed Baptist in Casa Grande.

And so we're looking forward to moving out there. Trying to get things finished up here in Texas. Still loving on our church family here.

Oh, yes. I'm still shepherding here. I mean, there's still been needs here, even though I'm in that process of packing up and moving out.

But you're getting all my books. I forgot how annoying it is to move books. It really is.

Oh, my goodness. The boxes that I've chosen are just terrible, too. They've been used for multiple projects, so they're already flimsy.

Yeah, so we use double the amount of tape to keep it together. Yeah, right. Well, some of them are just too big.

It's like carrying books in a box that big. It just doesn't work. No, it doesn't.

I'm going to go buy those medium boxes or the small boxes. They're all exactly the same size.

Yeah. I'll just put all the books. So we know those are book boxes. We've got a bunch of books in there. We know they're heavy and don't carry too many of those at a time.

Right. That's what I'm going for. That's all in my office. We've still got books here we've got to pack up.

Yeah, but less. We've packed up quite a few. Yeah. Well, less books to pack, but we just had a friend come over today and gift me with more books.

I love it. So now we've got to pack those. We just love books. I didn't want to turn it down, though. Yeah, we love books.

We love books. Our two -year -old loves books. Yes! He is infatuated with books. Any book that comes across his way, whether it has pictures or not, he is thumbing through it.

He'll grab my little paperbacks off the shelf and start. I love it. And he points to words like he knows what they're saying.

He does. Can't even say a word other than no clearly. Aria. He can say aria very clearly.

It still comes out. Aria. That's true. Aria. It's so cute. It's adorable.

What was the thing that he would say? He says um very clearly. Um. Yeah, oh yeah. Um. You tell him something and he has to think about it.

He goes, um. Yeah, any question he goes, um. Well, when we ask him what a duck says, he goes, bawk, bawk.

And the kids have been trying to correct him and say, no, it's quack, quack. And I stopped. I'm like, don't you dare correct that boy.

Because that's an adorable answer and I don't want it to change. But at some point, you have to let them answer the question correctly.

Yeah. The cute answer. It's not going to. It's not going to pass the test. It's not going to get them through life.

It's cute, but you'll fail epically. So anyway, yeah, jumping into some questions here.

This first one comes from Avery in L .A. Dear Pastor Gabe, congratulations on moving to Arizona and pastoring a

Reformed Baptist Church. I was wondering if you could tell me the difference between a

Reformed Baptist Church and say a First Baptist Church. And how many different kinds of Baptists are there?

Thank you for your Bible studies. There's a lot of different kinds of Baptists. Oh, tons of different Baptists.

Yeah. So you've got Southern Baptists, which is the largest denomination in North America.

I think it is the largest Protestant denomination. I think so. Anywhere. So far. Yeah. Well, I mean.

We'll see how things go. Depending on the numbers. Because, of course, the Southern Baptist Convention boasts over 14 million members.

But on a given Sunday, there are not 14 million Southern Baptists going to church. That's true.

Very true. Yeah. I mean, and also numbers have revealed that. So a church may boast a membership of 5 ,000 or 6 ,000 people, but their attendance is only like 1 ,500 to 2 ,000.

Right. So, yeah, the numbers as they are shown as far as Southern Baptist memberships go don't accurately reflect the number of people who are actually

Southern Baptists. So when we were in Junction City and I was pastoring a Southern Baptist Church there, we had the census results that came out in 2010.

Uh -huh. Showed that there were over 1 ,500 Southern Baptists in Junction City. What? Wow. Well, our church only had 200 people in it.

Yep. So where are those other 1 ,300? There was one other Southern Baptist Church in town.

It was the Sister Korean Church that we planted. Right. That's true. Yeah. But that church didn't have.

Nope. But 100 people in it. Right. So where are these other 1 ,200 people that are claiming to be

Southern Baptists? So the Southern Baptist numbers. I want to know. That's right. The Southern Baptist numbers kind of look a lot like that.

Then you have. They're not inflated by any means. No. Southern Baptists never do that. Never inflate the numbers until they're asking for money and then they diminish it.

Yes. See, we're really low on funds. The North American Baptist, National Baptist, American Baptist.

So in Junction City. Wait, wait, wait. There's a North American Baptist and an American?

And an American Baptist. Okay. I didn't know that. So the first Baptist Church in Junction City, when we first moved there, it was

American Baptist. Uh -huh. Somewhere in there they left the American Baptist Association and they just became.

They were just independent after that. Yeah. They might have become part of the North American Baptist. I'm not sure. There was another

Baptist Church in town, had one of those generic Baptist names, still had Baptist in the name. Right. But they were part of the

North American Baptist Association. So yeah, there's different kinds of Baptist affiliations.

So just because you see a first Baptist Church, like our church here in Lindale is first Baptist Church.

Right. But it is Southern Baptist. Right. So the first Baptist Church in Junction City was

American Baptist and then independent. So just because you see a first Baptist Church, it doesn't mean that every first Baptist Church is aligned the same way.

Right. True. You'd have to ask. That's very true. The very first first Baptist Church in America, which is in Providence, Rhode Island, is extremely liberal.

I think they're American Baptist, but I'm not positive. They have women pastors there. Okay. I think the pastor there is a woman.

Okay. Which, in the words of John MacArthur, means they don't have a pastor. But this is a church my ancestors, my first ancestors to the

United States helped found. Right. And it was completely reformed when it was first founded.

But even in the time that Roger Williams was there, who was the founding pastor of First Baptist in Providence, Rhode Island, they kicked him out.

So they went liberal in the first generation of that church. Wow. Yeah. Wow. It got really bad way back when, and it's pretty much been that way ever since.

You also have the Anabaptists, which the most common Anabaptists that you see around today is the Mennonites.

Okay. Yeah. Amish would also be considered Anabaptists. There's Free Will Baptists. You've probably seen a

Free Will Baptist Church. Yeah. Staunchly Arminian. Yeah. If not, you know, semi -Pelagian.

You have the Cooperative Baptists, the Independent Fundamentalist Baptists. Right. Which is a denomination despite how much they want to say they're not.

They're independent. They're not independent. There's Converge, which used to be the

Baptist General Conference. Okay. So some Baptist churches are part of Converge.

Okay. I'm not going to go through all of them because there's, you know, 40 or 50 different Baptist affiliations just in North America alone.

Right. Or in the United States because you can go to Canada and you have the Canadian Baptists. Isn't there like a

Calvary Baptist or is that just a name? There are Calvary Baptist churches and some of them might be affiliated with Calvary Chapel or that Calvary denomination.

Some of them might be, but I don't think just because you see a Calvary Baptist means they're automatically affiliated with the

Calvary denomination. It was so common I just figured that was a denomination. There are a lot of those. And I mean, you really have to ask.

If you see a Providence Baptist Church, more often than not, although this isn't 100 % the case, but more often than not, it's a

Reformed Baptist Church. Right. Most Providence Baptist churches are Reformed. The church, again, that I mentioned that we left in Kansas, First Southern Baptist Church, left the

Southern Baptist denomination, so they had to change the name. Yeah, you kind of got that. Because they were First Southern Baptist, yeah.

So they changed to Providence Baptist Church. Yes. And that is a

Reformed congregation. They have a Reformed Statement of Faith. We're going to Providence Reformed Baptist Church.

Yes. So they're making sure you know in the name we are a Reformed Baptist congregation.

Yeah. So what does it mean then to be Reformed Baptist? Because isn't the church that we're a part of, First Baptist Church of Lindale, aren't we

Reformed? I would say yes. Yes, we are. We're Reformed in soteriology.

Right. Meaning the study of salvation. So you might understand First Baptist Church to be

Calvinistic. And it's not Calvinistic by confession. It's that all of us elders hold to a

Calvinistic soteriology. Uh -huh. Understanding that it is not by our will that we are saved.

Right. But by the will of God. Ephesians 2, 8 and 9, it is by grace you have been saved through faith and this not of yourselves.

It is the gift of God, not a result of works so that no one may boast. And as we also read in John 1, as many as received him, to them he became the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in his name, who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And in 1 Corinthians 1, 30, it is his will that you are in Christ Jesus.

Yeah. Amen. So that's what we would understand having a Reformed soteriology.

And that's definitely where First Baptist Church is. But again, it's not by confession. It's because all of us elders and teachers hold to that understanding of soteriology, a study of salvation.

Right. A Reformed Baptist Church has a broader confession of Reformed doctrines.

Okay. So it's not just soteriology. Uh -huh. There's also confessions about covenantalism.

Okay. About baptism in the Lord's Supper. Uh -huh. About the Sabbath, which is another question that we've got coming up here.

Oh, okay. So we'll talk about Sunday and things like that. Of our cooperation with the civil magistrate.

And even our church, First Baptist Church of Lindale, has in their Statement of Faith what we believe with regards to how

Christians interact or submit to civil magistrates, things like that. Okay. That's in our confession, but it's not technically a – it's just the confession that we have as a church.

Oh, okay. But it's not a Reformed confession in the sense that it's rooted in a confession that came out of the

Reformation. Does that make sense? Yeah. So the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith would be a

Reformed confession. Right. And making statements about more than just soteriology, but even with regards to God's decree, which is not part of Calvinism.

Right. God's decree is not – you know, the decree that he made from before the foundation of the world is actually not articulated in the five points of Calvinism.

So, you have a deeper understanding of God's decree in a Reformed confession.

Mm -hmm. And then covenantalism, like I mentioned, day of worship, things like that. Right. Proper practice of the

Lord's Supper and baptism. All of those things are bound up in that Reformed confession. Right.

So that's why a – that would be the distinction between a Reformed Baptist Church and any other

Baptist Church that would also call themselves Reformed. Mm -hmm. They probably do have some doctrines that align with a

Reformed statement of faith, but the church itself is probably not Reformed by confession, if that makes sense.

Sure. So they may not agree with everything in that confession, but they agree with enough to consider themselves to be a

Reformed church. Right. Right. I mean, you know, like our church, First Baptist Church, Lyndale, says that we – there's a lot of people there that would say, well, we're

Reformed. Right. And yeah, I agree with that. But a church – but as a church itself, it's not affixed to a

Reformed confession. Right. If that makes sense. Now, the confession that – the confession of faith that the church has, which is the

Baptist Faith and Message 2000, is – it is derived from the

London Baptist Confession of Faith. Right. So it's kind of like down through the years, this is the confession as it's become, beginning with the 1689.

Yeah. Out of the London Baptist Confession, you also had the New Hampshire Confession. There was the Philadelphia Confession. And so the

Baptist Faith and Message 2000, in its history, in its ancestry, has roots in the 1689.

Yeah. But it's still not that Reformed confession. There are things that, frankly, in the BFM 2000, I do disagree with.

Right. And I don't think are articulated well, or I wish had been articulated better. Right.

And even as a church, we went through those things on a Sunday night. It was the Sunday night series that the church was going through when I first came on.

And so when I began teaching through those doctrines, I would say, this is a good confession. This is great.

The way we articulate it. And there were other times when I would read the confession, I would say, I wish that this actually said it this way.

You know, something like that. Yeah. Like there's a doctrine in there that talks about we oppose any kind of racism.

Well, racism is not mentioned in the Bible. Right. So the problem is you're saying that we oppose racism, which is a word that really is not clearly defined.

So it would be better to say we oppose all kinds of partiality. Yeah. Which would include racism.

True. And then you can articulate from there, which includes racism and, you know, all these other kinds of things. Right. So that was one example of I wish the language was a little bit clearer here.

Right. It seems more responsive to things that are going on in the culture than it does affixing itself to things that are specifically articulated in Scripture.

Because when we don't use those words anymore, because, I mean, words come and go. I mean, we don't speak old English anymore. Yeah. For instance.

And so when those words come and go and those definitions come and go and things are changed, then somebody's going to look at that and be like, what does that even mean?

Or it doesn't mean it then what it means now. Exactly right. The word meant something different then.

Right. And so that would leave a lot. But if you base it off of the Bible and biblical example.

Language. There we go. And I mean, you can still use today's words, but it would be derived from the

Bible. And so they'd be able to like, oh, OK, this is what that means. Or use the biblical language first and then explain.

Right. See, in our culture today, this also manifests itself in this way. Right. You know. True. But even the 1689 has some elements to it that that were responding to things that were going on in the culture at that time.

It's true. There are also those LBCF 1689 purists that believe you have to read it in the original old

English language that it was written in. London Baptist Confession. Yeah. LBCF.

London Baptist Confession of Faith 1689. OK. It's really. Technically, it would be the two

LCBF 1689. Oh, stop. I'm still trying to keep up.

It's the second London Baptist Confession of Faith. Oh, OK, OK, OK. Anyway, the.

Don't confuse me further. There are those purists that want to read it and say we should only read it and understand it as the original authors intended it in that original language.

OK. But then there are others and Founders does this. Founders will will put out an updated language version of the 1680.

So a lot of the books that you'll get at their booths at conferences and stuff like that, it'll be the 1689, but it'll be in modern

English. And that's fine. I would I would rather read Pilgrim's Progress in modern

English than in old English. Definitely. I mean,

I it's it's just you kind of got to learn a new language almost. Yeah.

Whenever you're you're going back to old English because some of their phrases and some of their

I mean, a lot of the words and stuff like that is just way different than what we how we talk today.

Yeah. Speaking of hang on, let me bring this up because I've used this example before and I'll show you like quite the difference between.

Oh, that won't work. Hang on. Let me try this another way. OK. First Corinthians six nine.

Now, you know, this passage as as saying, do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?

Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals. OK, it's just verse nine.

Not going on into ten and eleven. OK, that's the that was the NASB ninety five that I just read to you there.

The English standard, which I think it's repeated more often than any other. Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?

Do not be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality.

OK, there's the two versions that you'll probably hear most often. Consider what the Geneva Bible says.

OK, here's the language from the. So this would have been immediately prior to the

King James Version. OK, you're talking language. It's probably it's not even a full generation older than the

King James. The Geneva Bible is of 1587, so that you think about the King James being 1611.

OK, so there's there's the span of time that we're talking about there. And of course, the version of the King James we have today was is not the 1611.

But anyway, that aside, we'll leave that discussion for another day. So here's what the

Geneva Bible says in First Corinthians six nine. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

Be not deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor wantons, nor buggerers.

That was what they called a sodomite back in those days. He was a buggerer.

OK, yeah, I would not have put that together. Right. So you have to you have it's almost like you have to translate the

English into better English, you know, or modern modern. Yeah, better English.

Better. Anyway, I do have an article that talks about that.

I won't I won't go into that into further depth. But yeah, that's just using an example.

And that's one of those verses I've used to talk about and see the difference in language. Yeah, even in the English language, how it's changed over almost 500 years.

So anyway, what were we talking about with regards to that? Oh, yeah. Like the original language of the 1689 versus translating into modern

English. There's nothing wrong with translating into modern English. I'm not that much of a purist to say that you'd have to do that.

You'd have less headaches. Yeah, right. And that's the that's the struggle

I've had with the King James Bible. It's like you have to explain the King James Bible. You have to have a translation of a translation.

Right. Which is what the new King James is. Right. Exactly. That's so true.

It's translating the the old King James language into a new modern King James language.

So anyway, I hope that we answered that question there, Avery. Question being, what would be the difference between a

Reformed Baptist and a First Baptist? How many different kinds of Baptists are there? Thank you for your Bible studies, which is a part of the question.

But anyway, yeah. So again, a Reformed Baptist Church, if you see a church that is

Reformed Baptist, then again, you're looking at a church that is most likely grounded its statement of faith in the 1689

London Baptist Confession. Sure. Whereas a First Baptist Church could be any number of different Baptist denominations.

And you would just you'd have to ask. Right. Like, what are your associations? What's your statement of faith? That sort of thing.

But I would even be cautious as to a Reformed Baptist. Like, don't just assume that they're all the same.

Yeah, right. You know, because every church is different. Which any church. Yeah. Every church is different. And even if they share the same name, it's still a different dynamic.

So it's definitely most important to go speak with the pastor and sit down and discuss, you know, what are your beliefs?

What are you going to be teaching? Right. And those kind of things. There are Reformed Baptist churches out there that can be really, really legalistic.

Right. So you have to be careful about that. Yeah. And in fact, when we were going through this interview process at Providence Reformed Baptist, I was asking them questions to make sure they weren't that way.

Right. And they were asking me questions to make sure I wasn't that way. Yes. Because there is that tendency to fall into that.

And even in Reformed Baptist circles. Yeah. There's a church near to us here in East Texas. Extremely cult -like and legalistic.

And we've actually helped win people out of that church. Yeah. Because of how oppressive they can be.

Right. So, yeah, you just have to be careful. Great Reformed Baptist churches out there. Oh, yeah. I love that we're joining a church that is committed to a statement of faith like the

LBCF. But again, just like with any church. Yes. You have to look at what their confession is.

Make sure the doctrine is solid first. Right. Do your due diligence. Due diligence.

I can't ever get that out. Yeah. That was it.

Just do your due diligence. Just do that. Right. Ask questions. I can't speak anymore.

I'll be all tied up. Anyway. Ask questions. Do the research.

Yes. Have conversations. Those kinds of things. All right. This next one also has to do with Reformed Baptist.

This is from Jerome. Hi, Pastor Gabe. I belong to a church that adheres to the London Baptist 1689

Confession of Faith. So he went LB 1689 CF. Stop.

We'll confuse Becky even more. Oh, my goodness. And we are a member of a fellowship of independent

Reformed Evangelicals. FIRE. Oh, okay. In fact, Providence Reformed, same way.

Yeah. We're part of FIRE, the Fellowship of Independent Reformed Evangelicals. So he goes on to say, I consider myself to be a

Reformed Baptist. However, in a recent discussion, it was said that Reformed Baptist can be easily said to be

Baptists who are Reformed in soteriology and adhere to a Christian Sabbath, while Calvinist Baptists are those with just Reformed soteriology.

As such, Christians assemble on the Lord's Day, the first day of the week, and or as described by the early church.

In my view, while maintaining the Sabbath was possible for a first century agrarian community, I cannot in good conscience think that I am resting and attending church on Sunday when

I rely on the work of utility companies, gas stations, restaurant workers, delivery trucks for Monday, airlines, and many other conveniences in our modern world.

For me to be consistent, I would have to depend on Sabbath breakers to maintain the Sabbath. So my question is, can one be a

Reformed Baptist and not a Sunday Sabbatarian? I know this question is relevant to you, since you are soon to take up your new responsibilities in Arizona.

Congratulations. Grace and peace, Jerome. Well, good question, Jerome. That's a great question.

Because, I mean, really, when you break it down like that, I mean, if you use electricity, somebody's watching that.

Somebody is working on the Sabbath. And gas to heat your home and to run things.

Oh, man, that's a lot intertwined. And internet, everybody uses internet.

Your cell phone, you know, I mean, you got to keep that up and running somehow. Right. So, yeah, there's a lot of stuff going on on the

Sabbath. There's a lot. And I've had this question posed to me before. I remember a young man, it was shortly before we left

Junction City, in fact. Right. There was a young man that came into our church, and he had asked me, knowing that I was

Reformed Baptist, like I would say that my doctrinal convictions align more on the

Reformed Baptist side, even though our church is not confessionally Reformed. Right. So, knowing that about me, he had asked, so how do you deal with the

Sabbath? Like, what are your views on the Sabbath? How far do you go as a Sabbatarian? Right. Do you, you know.

Because the Reformed Baptist, for a Sabbatarian, I mean, like they encourage, right?

Yeah, they encourage abstinence on the Sabbath from engaging in any of those cultural things.

So, like even going to a restaurant. Right. Would be causing your waiters and waitresses to break the

Sabbath, to wait on you. Right. So, that would be wrong, because you're encouraging somebody to work on the

Sabbath. Now, there is, I have at least enough conviction about the

Sabbath that that does bother me. Like, I would hope that a Christian is committed to this being at least enough of a day of rest that I'm not going to work on Sunday morning,

I'm going to go to church. Right. Or you've at least arranged it to some degree to where you're going to church in the evening. You're going to church sometime.

Yeah, at sometime on Sunday. Right. You need to have that day committed to going to church. Right. For work, rather. Right. Yeah.

And even Baptist churches that aren't confessionally Reformed, they'll probably have some sort of statement of faith where they will say in there,

Sunday's the day of worship, we gather on Sunday. Right. Might even be a part of their constitution or their bylaws.

We've designated that Sunday is our day of worship, and so that's when we're going to gather as a church. And that's really good for a church to have that kind of statement that said, we agree together, this is the day that we're going to gather for worship.

And you may not be aware that that has roots in the Protestant Reformation. Yeah. But, you know, you're making a confession to this is our day of worship.

And that is understandably the Christian Sabbath, or as we would call it, the

Christian Sabbath. So Saturday still being that Sabbath day as the day it was given, and this goes all the way back to the created order.

Right. You know, we're not just waiting for the law to come around in the book of Exodus. It's right there in Genesis 2 that God rested from his work on the

Sabbath. Yeah. And so there was, it's even in nature, in the way that God created the week for man to live in.

Right. That there would be six days of work and on the seventh there would be rest. But you understand the

Sabbath rest as being rest from your work. You're not working on the

Sabbath. So you, as being committed to the Lord, have decided that on this day these are the things that I'm not going to do.

I'm going to take my mind, my body, my efforts away from these things and I'm going to commit myself to the

Lord. And you're deciding that you're going to do that on Sunday. Because that's the day of worship. That's the day that we all get together and sing praises and enjoy the

Lord's Supper. And there's work that goes into having a church service. There is.

Yeah. You work Sundays. That's right. I work Sundays. That's a work day for me, technically. Right. And it was encouraged among the pastors when

I came on that we have a day of rest. A day that we're not at the church and that we go home and chill, you know.

Right. Be with our families or whatever else. And so for me that's Friday. Even Saturday I'll still end up going to the church.

I'll go in the evening and I'll work on things and stuff like that. So Friday is my day that I'm not at the church. But otherwise, you know,

I'm working, what would that be? Monday through Sunday. Sunday through Thursday, break

Friday, Saturday, and then come back again on Sunday. And then on Sunday, yeah, like we said, there's work that's being done on that day.

I talked about this a little bit when we were in Matthew 12 where Jesus says that he is Lord of the Sabbath. We actually just finished

Matthew 12, but this was a few weeks ago. We were at the start of the chapter. So we read at the beginning of Matthew chapter 12.

At that time, Jesus went through the grain fields on the Sabbath and his disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat.

Right? But when the Pharisees saw this, they said, look, your disciples do what is not lawful to do on the

Sabbath. But there's nothing pertaining to Sabbath laws that say that you can't pluck the heads of grain.

Right. So Jesus said to them, have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions, how he entered the house of God and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those with him, but for the priests alone.

Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath, the priests in the temple break the

Sabbath and are innocent. But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.

So that reference there to the priests breaking the Sabbath is because on the Sabbath day, which was

Saturday, of course, in theocratic Israel, the priests were still working in the temple.

Right. So were they breaking the Sabbath? Jesus calls it breaking the Sabbath. I think he's using that expression sarcastically.

Right. But he declares they're innocent. Yeah. They're not doing anything wrong. So there are still things that people do on the

Sabbath. Because otherwise you couldn't go to church because you're making your pastor work.

I'm getting up and I'm getting myself ready and I'm getting in the car and I'm going, you know, there are Orthodox Jews out there that take those

Sabbath laws that seriously. Oh, really? They're even more pharisaical than the Pharisees are. Huh. I remember watching the documentary

Religulous. It's either Religulous or Religulous. I don't know how you pronounce it. But this was

Bill Maher, who is an atheist, mocker of Christianity. Oh, okay.

And so this documentary was mocking Christianity. Sure. But there was a segment of the documentary where he went and interviewed some

Orthodox Jews and these Jews were committed to coming up with inventions that would prevent you from working on the

Sabbath. Prevent you? Yeah. So some of these inventions included a system that answers the phone for you.

Okay. Now this was before, like you could practically talk to your phone and have it answer for you. Right.

But this was a contraption that would pick the phone up off the receiver without you having to pick up the phone because you picking up the phone is work on the

Sabbath. So like you just lay in bed? Yeah, basically.

Because you can't get out of bed. You couldn't get up and do anything. Right. Right. No. Oh, my.

This is the Pharisees going, look how pious we are because we don't pluck heads of grain off of the wheat.

Definitely. That's crazy. And there's nothing in the law that says that that's Sabbath breaking. But, of course, the disciples are right there.

I think I would go crazy if I had that mindset. Right. All the stuff I can't do today because I would be breaking the

Sabbath. But Jesus, who is Lord of the Sabbath, his disciples are right there with him.

It's almost as if Jesus is saying to the Pharisees, hey, I'm the one that wrote these laws. Right. No joke.

The disciples are with me and I'm declaring them innocent. Okay? Oh, boy. So anyway, you have to – there is an element of this that is tied to Christian liberty.

And you're going to have to decide what you think is acceptable. And maybe your church has to decide this, too.

If you are a Reformed Baptist church and you're considering the 1689

London Baptist Confession of Faith, then you have to talk out as a church, how far do we take things like this with regards to what is said about the

Sabbath. So let me go to that particular chapter, which is Chapter 22 of Religious Worship in the

Sabbath Day. And scrolling down here, this is paragraphs 7 and 8. As it is the law of nature that in general a proportion of time by God's appointment be set apart for the worship of God, so by his word, in a positive moral and perpetual commandment binding all men in all ages, he is particularly appointed one day in seven for a

Sabbath to be kept holy unto him. And I agree with that. Which from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ was changed into the first day of the week, which is called the

Lord's Day, and is to be continued to the end of the world as a Christian Sabbath the observation of the last day of the week being abolished.

Okay, so essentially what's being said there is because Christ rose from the dead on Sunday that this has become the day of rest, the day of worship for the

Christian. And we're to continue to consider that day as our day of worship until the end of the world.

Right. All right. Paragraph eight. The Sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord when men, after a due preparing of their hearts and ordering their common affairs aforehand, do not only observe a holy rest all day from their own works, words and thoughts about their worldly employment and recreations, but are also taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of his worship and in the duties of necessity and mercy.

So how far are you going to take that as a church? Yeah. What are you going to say, paragraph eight of the 1689 prohibits us from doing, and you're just going to have to decide what that entails.

Right. You will have to talk through those things and make a decision on, as a church we're committed to this, and we would hope members of our congregation would not be doing this.

So even when I interviewed at Providence Reform, there were questions about, you know, would you prohibit a member of your church doing this on the

Sabbath day? But even beyond the confession of faith is the scripture.

The confession of faith is not scripture. Right. It's summarizing things that we understand scripture says.

Right. But it's still the scripture that is ultimately our authority. Right. So what does, what did the scripture say about this?

And we come to Romans 14. Now, except the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on opinions, one person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.

The one who eats must not view the one who does not eat with contempt, and the one who does not eat must not judge the one who eats for God accepted him.

Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls, and he will stand for the

Lord is able to make him stand. One person judges one day above another.

Another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

There is nothing in scripture that explicitly says, this day is the day that you are to consecrate and keep holy to the

Lord, and you cannot consider any other day this week or that way.

Which is why, as I said, there's a day that the church recommends that I take as a day of rest. Right. But Sunday even is considered a work day.

And it is a non -negotiable. I can't skip Sunday. Right. I wouldn't want to anyway.

Right. But I can't skip on Sunday. So to what extent are you going to consider these laws of abstinence or these recommendations of abstinence, you might call them that way, that you would not engage in what's said in the 1689

Common Affairs, the works, words, and thoughts about worldly employment and recreations.

How far do you take that? What does that mean that you're not supposed to engage in? And I think that there is a

Christian liberty aspect to that, and you're going to have to decide, ultimately, what you can do in good conscience and what you cannot.

Right. Now, as I've said before in the past, and this has consistently been my statement about my own

Sabbatarianism for 13 years now of pastoral ministry, I am not a Sabbatarian, but I sound like one.

Yeah. So I'm going to tell you, you have to take Sunday off and go to church.

I'm going to tell you that. Right. But again, as Romans 14 .1 says, not to quarrel over opinions.

Right. It is right for you to not work on Sunday, but to go to church, be committed on that day to go to church.

And by the way, Truett Cathy, who founded Chick -fil -A, this is the reason why Chick -fil -A is not open on Sunday.

Yep. He doesn't even want his employees to feel like... Didn't. Right.

Correct. Because he passed away a few years ago. Yeah. But he did not even want his employees to consider or try to arrange every other thing they do around their work schedule.

I'm just going to make it easy for you. Sunday, you're off. Yeah. Go to church. Yeah. Or spend time with your family, even for those employees that he has that are not

Christians. Mm -hmm. Because he wasn't employing explicitly Christians. That's right. So Sunday is that day off.

And look how successful Chick -fil -A has been. Yeah. I think I read somewhere it is the only fast food chain that is completely debt -free.

Oh, wow. And all of its franchises are debt -free. Wow. So that's, you know, amazing to consider.

The success that Chick -fil -A has had, and they at the very least honor the Sabbath. Mm -hmm.

And keep it holy. Or honor a day of week to be a day of rest, even for their secular employees. Yeah. That they would take that day off.

That's a good example. Right. And for Truett, because I sat next to him in church one Sunday. Yep. That's true.

For Truett Cathy, he committed that day unto the Lord. Went to church. Yeah. Annie just loved them.

Oh, did she meet? Yeah. She met the Cathys when we were there? Okay, yeah. Yeah. Because they would always give her hugs and stuff.

Oh, yeah. She gave the best hugs. I remember. So my parents attended the church that Truett Cathy went to. Mm -hmm.

And there was, I had never met him before. One Sunday, I was just sitting in my chair, and there was two empty chairs next to me, and then an old man, you know, two chairs down.

Uh -huh. And my dad - And his wife. And his wife, yeah. His wife was there too. My dad leaned over to me and said, hey, do you know who that is over there?

And I just kind of looked over and looked back at my dad. I said, that's Truett Cathy. And then we got to the greeting time in church, and like kids just mobbed him.

They did, yes. He was like a grandfather in that church. Yep. So, yeah, the kids just ran up to him.

It was really great. Anyway, so, yeah, answering your question with regard to that. And once again, that doesn't respond to every single thing that you asked about,

Jerome. Mm -hmm. But at least gives you enough to have to decide, you know, where am I in my own conscience regarding that.

Each one must be fully convinced in his own mind, as said in Romans 14 .5. So -

And everybody has different convictions too. So, like, you might be bothered by something, but somebody else isn't bothered by that.

Right. They're bothered by this, but you're not. Right. So, I mean, it's where you are in your walk.

And maybe you'll be bothered by something else later that you weren't convicted by now. Right.

You know. And then you just adjust as you go. Yeah. And like I said when we were going through that portion of Matthew 12,

Christ is our Sabbath rest. Yes. So, the laws of the Sabbath were ultimately pointing to Christ.

We rest in Christ. And for every single Christian who is a follower of Jesus Christ, every day is our

Sabbath rest. Mm -hmm. But for the person who is not a Christian, who does not trust in the Lord Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sins, they break the

Sabbath every day. That's true. They are not at rest. They're continuing to work to justify themselves.

Mm -hmm. Which we cannot do. Only by faith in Christ are we justified. Consider what's also said in Colossians 2, beginning in verse 16.

Therefore no one is to judge you in food and drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a

Sabbath day, things which are only a shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

Mm -hmm. Every single commandment in the Ten Commandments is repeated in the

New Testament. Yeah. Except for honor the Sabbath and keep it holy. So that is the one that we as Christians don't see the same way as theocratic

Israel had to regard the Sabbath day. Right. Nobody's being put to death because you were gathering sticks on Sunday.

Right. Christ is our Sabbath rest. He has fulfilled the laws of the Sabbath.

But still as a matter of God's natural order, since this is the way that he designed the week from the very beginning, there's a day of rest.

Right. And you should rest on that day from your works and devote yourself to the worship of God.

Mm -hmm. And because man is drawn to work, you know, in the fall.

Yeah, I think man is drawn to laziness rather. Well. I think a sinful fallen man, his tendency is more toward laziness than working.

That's true. But you do have...

No, it's that... And she pines after him. Well, okay. So you consider that in the curse that God gave to man, you will work the ground, but it's only going to yield thorns and thistles for you.

Ah. To the wife... Thus making him lazy, because it's discouraging. Yeah, right. So and then to the woman, he will rule over you.

Mm -hmm. Your desire will be for him. Or it could also even be translated, your desire will be contrary to him, but he will rule over you.

So either way, it's built into the curse that there is a conflict that exists between man and woman.

Okay. So a man may have a tendency toward work or be devoted to his work, and he's trying to get meaning and purpose out of his work, but he's never going to get there, which is detailed in Ecclesiastes as well.

Right. Whereas the woman may pine for her husband, but she has to understand that he has to work.

Right. There has to be an element of grace in the marriage where she knows he has to work. And even a

Christian husband's work is being done for his family. Right. So that he can provide for his family.

Right. Man, you still got to figure out, you know, I need to not be focusing on work. I need to focus on my wife and kids right now.

And that's where I'm saying like the day of rest. Right. Kind of... Doing all that together as a family.

Yeah. And that's... Encourages that family time. Yeah. Worshiping together as a family.

And that's been one of the things that since I've been pastor here at First Baptist Church in Lindale, I've been able to enjoy for three years that I've been here.

I get to go to church and sit with and worship with my family. Yeah. When I was a senior pastor,

I don't think we ever did that unless we had left and gone to church somewhere else like on vacation or something like that. Yeah.

It was rare. Yeah. It was a rare thing. And now we're coming back into that. Yeah. I'll be the guy setting my foot in the church first and probably the last foot out the door as well.

Yep. When we lock up the building. But we're looking forward to it. Coming down there to Providence Reformed Baptist Church in Casa Grande, Arizona.

Yeah. And if you happen to be in the area, look us up. Definitely. Come say hi. Would love to have you come.

As we said to our own church as well, you're all invited. You are. If you want a break from the dry heat. The dry heat.

Or I'm sorry. If you want a break... Hang on. From the oppressive humidity. There you go. And you would rather have a dry heat.

Yes. Then yeah. Come on down. Different opinions about that. I would prefer the dry heat. Myself.

Me too. Honestly. This next question comes from Daryl. Hi, Pastor Gabe.

I'm listening to old podcasts back in the AXE study where Apple starts your podcast and on a

Q &A you address the end times views. Okay. So yeah.

I'm not going to remember back to AXE. Apple Podcasts only keeps 999 podcasts and obviously we've done over 2 ,000 now by this point.

So if you want the full library, you have to go to Podbean. So it's www .tt

.podbean .com. Otherwise, you're only going to get 1 ,000 back and that's pretty much as far as you can go.

So anyway, Daryl goes on to say, Amillennialism is mentioned as the view that the 1 ,000 year reign is not literally 1 ,000 years but is just simply a long time.

My question is, how does the Amill view square with a literal six day creation?

How can you say that one of those means what it says but the other does not?

On a different topic, do you sell all your podcasts bundled in a thumb drive by book? I'd love to have all of them where it would be easier to listen to them by book instead of in the weekly format.

Thanks, Daryl. Well, I appreciate it. Thanks for your question. Genesis is a history book and Revelation is apocalyptic literature.

It's two different forms of writing. Okay. So you're going to read Genesis different than you read Revelation. That's just simply the answer to that question.

Genesis is a history book. So what it says is what it says. Revelation is using a lot of symbols and it even says this,

Revelation 1 .1, the revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him to show literally signified or showed through signs.

That's literally what the word means. Okay. The revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him to show to his slaves the thing which must soon happen and he indicated this by sending it through his angel to his slave

John. Okay. So things are being shown by signs. There are ways to interpret those signs. And a lot of those things are drawn from stuff that we've read before in the

Old Testament. You have the symbolism that's in Psalms, in Daniel, in Ezekiel, in Isaiah.

Those things very prominent. Those four Old Testament books incidentally happen to be the four most quoted Old Testament books in Revelation.

And so you're used to seeing that prophetic symbolism in the prophets in the

Old Testament and even the poeticness that's used in the Psalms. So you're going to read those signs and symbols differently than say the history that's recaptured in Genesis.

You do not read about the seals and the trumpets and the bowls the same way that you read about seven days of creation and rest.

Right. You have seven seals, seven trumpets, seven bowls. Well, in Genesis 1, you have six days of creation, a seventh day which is rest.

Those are literally those days. Yeah. But you're reading about those things differently. They're not symbolic of anything.

Whereas in Revelation, it even says it's symbolic. Right. That makes sense. So that's why you would read those things differently.

Yeah. Now with regards to your other question, do I have a flash drive with all the podcasts on it organized by book?

Unfortunately, I don't distribute my podcasts on a flash drive. We've done all the videos on a flash drive before.

But with over 2 ,000 episodes, that drive would have to be over 100 gigabytes.

Yeah. Well, he said it by book. So maybe you can do like a flash drive per book.

Yeah, maybe so. But yeah, I mean, that's a big flash drive. Yeah. And I also don't even have the time for –

I wish I had the time to do this, but I don't. Or you could send me a flash drive with a self -addressed stamped envelope.

We've tried that. We've tried to do this before. And then I will – It didn't work out. I'll load all the podcasts on a flash drive, dropped it in the

SASE, self -addressed stamped envelope. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay, see, when you look at me like that –

Like what? You take away the purpose of me using the abbreviation. Yeah, I know, but I was totally lost.

I'm like, what is that? SASE. I'll just start calling it the SASE. The SASE.

When I drop it in the SASE and send it back to you, it just takes too much time.

I mean, to sit there and let all the podcasts load and remember to drop the envelope in. I can do that for one person, but if I do that for 10 or 20 –

It takes a lot of time. It does. And I just don't have the time. But I appreciate the request. Eventually our kids will be old enough that they could do it for you.

Yeah. Put them to work on it. And again, so the service really has to be

Podbean that you go to to get all the episodes going all the way back. Yeah. Because –

Can you search that on Podbean? Well, you can search it on Google. You can even type in, you know, WWTT Axe.

Okay. And all of the – here, I'll do it right here. WWTT and Axe and – oh, the first video you get is a

Layton Flowers. How about that? Yeah. Because he just doesn't like what

I teach. 1021, Introduction to Axe, right there. So it's one of the first results that I got.

So then you can pull that up, and there it is on Podbean. And you should be able to find – now, they had it set up where I could tag it.

You know, this is a study in the Book of Acts. Uh -huh. And then you can click on that, and all those studies that I've done in Acts will come up.

They don't do that anymore? I guess not. They had even changed it to where I can only limit myself to like 15 tags.

Well, I've taught through more than 15 books of the Bible. That's a bummer. Yeah, I know. It's lame.

So I think – here's what I'm going to do. And I've thought about this. I can't do it right now, but after we move, I'll start working on this.

If you go to our website, www .utt .com, and you click on the

Links tab. Hang on, let me see. Or there's specifically a Podcast tab.

So I go to the website, and right up there it says Podcast. When you click on that, it brings up a podcast page.

And then there's different subscriptions. You can subscribe via Apple, Spotify, Google, or email.

The email appears to be blank. Anyway, there's a podcast. Archive of the episodes, that just takes you to Podbean.

But on that particular page, I will set up where it will be individual links all the way down.

Kind of like Monergism sets up their website. Okay. So there will be over 2 ,000 links on this page, and it will categorize it all by book of the

Bible. So just scroll down until you get all the studies in Isaiah, all the ones in James, whatever else.

And that's what I'll do. So I'll commit the page to that. That's going to take me a little bit of time to do that. But at least now you'll have a resource where you know that if you're—

That would be easier. Yeah. You're looking for a specific Bible lesson on a particular passage, you'll be able to find it on that page.

Yeah. That'll be helpful. Yeah. Probably increase listenership a little bit more. Probably. I would think too. Yeah. But thank you so much,

Daryl, for your question. I hope I answered both questions sufficiently. Yeah.

If you have a question you would like to submit to the broadcast, send it to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

And next week we'll be back to Matthew, which we're in the parables now.

So Matthew 13. I like the parables. We'll get into the parable of the sower. And then that's

Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. Back to Isaiah on Thursday. And we get into that narrative portion at the end of the first part of Isaiah.

And then another Q &A on Friday. Yeah. God willing. Yes. All right, let's finish with prayer.

Yes, let's. Heavenly Father, we thank you for the time that we have together, that we can go through your word and talk about these things and rejoice in the wonderful things that you have done for us.

Jesus, who died on the cross for our sins, who rose again from the dead, who ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God, is coming back again to judge the living and the dead.

By faith in Jesus, our sins are forgiven, and we have everlasting life. And I pray that we continue in the words of Philippians chapter 2, that we work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is

God who works in us, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. Even the things that we've talked about today, reading

Psalm 1, considering confessions of faith, a day of rest, the way the

Bible is written from Genesis to Revelation. All of these things would be working out in our lives in the pursuit of holiness and Christlikeness.

And that you would grow us in the image of the Son. For as we also read in Philippians 1, 6,

I am confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it at the day of Christ.

Come quickly, Lord Jesus, we pray in his name. Amen. Amen. Alright, just making sure everything's working.

-huh. You just wanted to push buttons. Yes. Gabe.