August 10, 2022 Show with Roger Salter on “John Gill & Augustus Toplady: Two Compatible Calvinists”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania. It's iron sharpens iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host Chris Arnzen.

Introduction of Roger Salter and St. Matthew's Anglican Church

Good. Afternoon. Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. Lake City, Florida. And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 10th day of August 2022 and one of my very favorite guests of all time has returned for another interview today.

His name is Roger Salter, and he is rector of st. Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama. Which is a reformed confessional cranmerian and historically Protestant congregation Firmly committed to the inerrant holy scriptures and the 39 articles of religion.

Today We are going to address John Gill and Augustus top lady to compatible Calvinists and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back my dear friend and brother in Christ Roger Salter. Well Roger I've already given somewhat of a detailed explanation of st. Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham when I introduced you but why don't you let our listeners know about some of the elements of your Anglican congregation first.

You are reformed that would obviously Relate to your Adherence to the Protestant Reformation and the teachings of the reformers as Far as they were faithful to the scriptures, of course. And your confessional.

Why don't you a comment on that? Can you explain what confessional means in regard to Anglicanism?

They were meant to be by the authors in grammatically with the Continental and just just to let our listeners know who?

Unless they're Anglican. I'm sure very few of them know what cranmerian means. It's referring to Thomas Cranmer who was the Archbishop of Canterbury under the kingship of Henry the eighth and Thomas Cranmer was a thoroughgoing Calvinist as far as I understand.

And he unfortunately after the death of King Henry the eighth and when the Church of Rome was once again the official State Church in England Cranmer out of fear of being executed recanted his Protestant views but then His conscious got the better of him through the grieving of the Holy Spirit and he later recanted his recantation and then not only was executed but he plunged the hand that Signed his recantation of the Protestant faith into the flames before the rest of his body was burned.

Am I remembering that accurately? Yes, and if you anybody wants to hear A full episode of iron sharpens iron radio on Thomas Cranmer. I've had the privilege of interviewing Dr. Ashley null who is a Cranmer scholar and You can hear in much more detail all about the life and legacy of Thomas Cranmer Who has become one of my heroes of the faith?

And He would be obviously Strongly associated with the 39 articles of religion since he was the one who drafted them. Am I correct there? And now to go into the theme of our actual interview today John Gill and Augustus top lady two compatible Calvinists.

Perhaps I mean, I'm sure that most of my listeners are Calvinists. I could be wrong, but I'm fairly confident That's the case. But in the event that there are some listening today who are not Calvinists who may be new to the program would you say that an accurate comparison of Calvinism and Arminianism would be that Calvinists believe That they owe 100 of the praise honor and glory of their salvation for their salvation to Jesus Christ and that They cannot even include their own will or decision To come to Christ as a part of a cooperation with God In their salvation whereas Arminians in contrast They believe that Man's will was not so Damaged by the fall it was tainted with sin, but not so damaged as to be totally depraved and The Arminian believes that man has enough goodness in him to a salvificly choose Christ Prior to his regeneration prior to receiving a new heart from God and prior to being filled with the Holy Spirit that man innately has an ability to please God by choosing him in a saving way and of course There are other things included in that they believe that Jesus Christ died for every human that ever lived and ever will live.

And a full-blown Arminian would believe that man even if he is truly born again can lose his salvation but wouldn't that be a basic summary of the Comparison of those two systems of theology.

John Gill, Augustus Toplady, and the Meaning of Provenient Grace

That's exactly the well these.

Two figures that we are addressing today yeah are great men of God who I Uphold as heroes. There is a difference of opinion amongst Calvinists in Regard to John Gill. There are some who refer to him as a hyper Calvinist.

I like to side with my friend dr. Tom Nettles on this this dispute. He believes that John Gill cannot rightly be given the label of hyper Calvinist. But why don't you tell us about each of these men? Individually first and then any kind of Cooperation or meeting or or Involvement that they have had with one another and how they could be rightly called two compatible Calvinists.

Now let me ask you a question. You use the term provenient grace. Yeah, and I've always heard that connected to Arminianism and even Roman Catholicism in that and that God gives The sinner who is not totally depraved But has a enough goodness within him that that God only needs to give him a jumpstart by grace if you will and Then then he can through his own natural will prior to regeneration Cry out to God for salvation and choose to follow Christ.

So, how are you using that term? I've never heard it used in the context of Calvinism before.

Yes, huh? I.

Never even knew that I've in fact, I don't believe until today. I've ever heard a reformed person Utilize provenient grace as a term in a favorable way. So so in other words, this is a Term that the Arminians are misusing and redefining you're saying including yes, John Wesley and and the Roman Catholics.

Absolutely enables within. And by the way, I want to make an announcement before I forget but since we are discussing John Gill today.

I have heard from Jordan Stefaniak and I'm sorry Jordan if I'm mispronouncing your name, but he is the president of the London Lyceum and he is editor of theologia Vietorum and he's a book review editor and a journal for the Journal of classical theology and research fellow at the SEBTS Center for Faith and Culture.

Well, we are going to be having an interview the date has not been yet Picked by Jordan, but God willing we're going to be talking about the John Gill project which is a project that is the result of a cooperation between the London Lyceum the Andrew Fuller Center and H &E publishing who have partnered together with the mission to republicize the work of John Gill for a new generation and.

So I just thought I'd announce that right now so people will keep their ears open and their eyes open for updates on the date when we have. When we have this John Gill project discussed on iron sharpens iron radio.

With Jordan Stefaniak.

So and who knows he might be listening now. I just thought I'd let you know about that. My problem is.

You might have to do a lot of searching to find an Anglican who loves Gill but You if you search long and hard enough, you will eventually find one. Of course top lady is a no-brainer isn't top lady universally loved by Anglicans.

He gets a rough time, too. Oh, really? Yes, I'll not reformected and I'm going to say in his Christian leaders of the 19th century. Among all those great had been a couple of good work. Then while you're looking I'll give our listeners the email address for questions.

If you have a question for Reverend Roger Salter send them in to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. The CH RIS a RN Z en. Give us your first name at least. Your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA, so I'm sorry Roger.

Are you ready? Yes, that's published by one of our sponsors here solid ground Christian books. Way when I repeat the website for anybody who wants to purchase.

Rock of Ages Which is the title of the biography of Augustus top lady the little-known man behind the well-known Him by Thomas Isham, but a. Solid-ground-books .com. Solid-ground-books .com. Please remember to mention that you heard about this book and Solid ground Christian books in general from Iron Sherpins iron radio.

We're gonna go to our first station break. So if anybody has a question for Roger Salter once again, the email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. As always give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence.

Don't go away. We'll be right back with Reverend Roger Salter of st Matthews Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama. Right after these messages from our sponsors.

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I did recognize Alex and.

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Very valuable ad that you recorded for us. Well, let's return to our subject at hand about John Gill and Augustus Toplady two compatible Calvinists. Tell us more about John Gill and Augustus Toplady and what makes them.

Stand out in your mind as heroes of the faith and other things that may be unique about them individually and also.

Involving their cooperation with one another and their friendship. Sure. In fact, one thing I just like to interject is.

I love these great stories of Great heroes of the faith who reach across denominational lines into someone who to someone who represents a different denomination or fellowship or association. Such as this friendship between John Gill and Augustus Toplady, Gill being a Particular Baptist today, he would be called the Reform Baptist and the Toplady being an Anglican and Something Similar was demonstrated.

I Don't know if you're aware of this. But John Gill also had a very close friendship with a Seventh-day Baptist named Samuel Stennett who was also like Toplady a hymn writer and They exchanged pulpits because they worshipped on different days.

Gill obviously worshipping on Sunday and Samuel Stennett being a Seventh-day Baptist had his worship services on Saturday and Samuel Stennett preached at John Gill's funeral at John Gill's.

John Gill's request prior to his death. Yes. In fact we as.

Reformed Christians when we say And we repeat the often quoted phrase Probably which became most popular In the the 19th century and perhaps even during the Jesus movement In the 20th century, but Jesus saves when we say that we say that as an emphatic Declaration of truth and we do not mean Jesus tries to save But frequently fails as an Arminian must logically conclude from his own theology.

We dismiss that as a falsehood and we believe Jesus saves. In fact right now and I want you to pick up where you left off there because we have to go to our midway break right now. And folks, please be patient with us as we take our midway break because it's The longer break in the middle of the show because grace life radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the FCC requires of them to localize Geographically all of their programming including iron sharpens iron radio with their own local public service announcements and other local announcements.

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Also send in your questions to Roger Salter to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We are going to be right back right after these messages with more of Roger Salter and our discussion on John Gill and Augustus top lady to compatible Calvin's.

The Compatibility of John Gill and Augustus Toplady

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