When Your Opponent Gets Nasty #2

In your book, The Fatal Flaw, 134 and 135, you say this.

He enters into the presence of the Father, having obtained eternal redemption. Christ presents himself before the

Father as the perfect oblation in behalf of his people.

His work of intercession, then, is based on his work of atonement. Intercession is not another or different kind of work, but it is the presentation of the work of the cross before the

Father. Jesus does not implore the Father to be merciful to men without grounds for that mercy, does he?

Would the Son ask the Father to compromise his holiness and justice by simply overlooking sin? Surely not.

Rather, the Son intercedes for men before the Father on the basis of the fact that in his death he has taken away the sins of God's people, and therefore, by presenting his finished work on Calvary before the

Father, he assures the application of the benefits of his death to those for whom he intercedes.

Now, my question, Mr. White, is, this sounds very Catholic, and we'll find out, and let me give you my question.

My question is, Mr. White, if you say that Christ saves to the uttermost, and his death on the cross is perfect and complete in itself, as you said on another page, then why does he have to present this same, as you say, finished work of Calvary before the

Father to assure the application of the benefits of his death to those for whom he intercedes? Why does that have to have, why did we have to have an intercession to bring to the

Father this sacrifice of Calvary? Context, context, context. As I specifically said, he enters into the presence of the

Father, having obtained eternal redemption, Christ presents himself before the Father as a perfect oblation in behalf of his people, and then, here's what seemingly you're not seeing.

And we're getting a lot of feedback here. If someone can do something about the feedback, it would be very helpful. Intercession is not another or different kind of work, but is the presentation of the work of the cross before the

Father. Your question is based upon separating the work from the intercession. The high priest, who has given his life in his blood, not the blood of goats and bulls, which is the argument that the writer will make, the high priest intercedes for the people of God.

And what I said in that passage is not that intercession is a separate work, not that intercession is an additional work, but as I emphasized,

Jesus Christ sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high.

When you sit down, the high priest had no place to sit in the Holy of Holies.

There is no place for him to rest. There is no place for him to do anything but simply offer the sacrifice, offer the blood.

Christ sits down at the right hand of the Father, his work having been completed and his being in the presence of the

Father. That work in and of itself intercedes in our behalf because the fact that when the

Father looks at the believer, he looks at the believer as having been justified, made righteous.

Why? Because as Paul said, I have been crucified with Christ.

It is not I who live, but Christ lives in me in the life which I now live in the flesh. I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me in my place.

You see, Mistress and Janice, when the nails went into that cross, the writing and certificate that was against me, my sins were nailed to that cross with Christ.

I participated in his death because I am united by God to his

Son. And that is why I can have both the forgiveness of my sins and, bless

God, the perfect righteousness that the Lord Jesus gives me that I cannot have in and of myself.

That's very good preaching, Mr. White, but it doesn't answer my question. My question is, why does it have to be presented again before the

Father if it is in itself complete and perfect? That's what

I asked you. And I said it is improper to say that I am making the presentation of the work separate from the work itself.

I said the work is complete, that he appears in the presence of the Father. How? He sits down at the right hand of the

Majesty on high. You made the assertion during your opening statements, and I could not find the passage of Scripture that you were even trying to make reference to.

I think it may have been Hebrews 8, 1 through 3, where you say that he's active in doing some sort of separate action or something along those lines.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. That is not what I am asserting. That is not what I said in the book.

I did not say it's a separate work. And the assumption of the question is completely contradictive by what

I myself said in that passage. Well, let me give you my opinion of that, Mr. White, which is it doesn't make any difference whether you separate the intercession from that or say it's not a different kind of work.

The question is, why does it have to be done? That's the question, not whether it's connected to whatever you are claiming here as another kind of work.

I'm not asking you that question. I'm asking why it has to be done. And the passage I was referring to, by the way, is

Hebrews 8, chapter 8, verses 1 and 2, which says he sat down at the right hand of the throne of majesty in heaven and who serves in the sanctuary.

OK, so he's not just sitting there doing nothing. He's sitting and then he does something. The New American Standard says.

I'm not done yet. Please don't interrupt me. OK, you asked me where the passage was. I'm telling you where the passage was.

Also, I had read to you that in Hebrews chapter 9, verse 23, it was necessary then for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these, the sacrifice going on in heaven.

OK, so I have no problem with it, with the statement that you made in your book that he has to present this finished work of Calvary before the father.

But I would think you would have a great problem with that passage, regardless of the fact of whether it's a different kind of work or not.

That's not what I'm asking you. I'm asking you why he has to present it to the father. If the work of Calvary in itself was perfect and complete.

Roman answer that. Thank you for the opportunity of doing so. Romans chapter 8.

Ask the question who shall lay a charge against God's elect before whom would a charge be laid, but the judge of all the earth.

Jesus appears in the presence of the father in our behalf. His presentation is not a separate work, as I said, and you ask, well, why must he do this?

Well, I'm not sure where else the son of God would go upon his ascension, but to the right hand of the majesty on high.

And I don't know to whom this work would be presented, but to the judge who then on the basis of that perfect work says about those for whom it is made the chaos just not guilty.

No one can bring a charge against God's elect because the judge is the father and the advocate is the son who died in my place.

In regards to Romans, I'm sorry, Hebrews chapter 8, which you brought up.

I'm not sure what translation you're using. Could you identify that please? New International Version. Thank you. The specific, the new

American standard, which I'm somewhat partial to, for some reason, says describes says now that the main point in what has been said is this.

We have such a high priest who has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of the majesty.

In the heavens, a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the

Lord pitched, not man. And my point is that if you're trying to say that the

NIV is indicating that there is some sort of extra action going on, I would simply point out that the word minister there is a noun.

It is not one. It is not a passage. It says there is some work going on that is separate from the work that the high priest is already accomplished.

That's why he sits down waiting from that point for his enemies to be made a footstool for his feet.

Oh, so he's sitting down then, Mr. White, and he's presenting the work of Calvary to the father. Is that what you believe that?

I believe that as the perfect high priest who has given himself on behalf of his people, he is seated at the right hand of the majesty on high, having once for all taken away their sin.

And again, simply emphasize that is not some separate action.