November 6, 2019 Show with Jonathan Landry Cruse on “The Christian’s True Identity: What it Means to be In Christ”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carwile, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing

the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 .17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with

your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida.

And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at

ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on

the 6th day of November 2019.

And I have just returned last night from my trip to Long Island, New York.

It was such a blessed time.

I thank all of you who prayed for that time away from my new home in Pennsylvania

and back to my old home on Long Island.

And it was just such a joy, not only visiting and

fellowshipping with dear old friends that I've known for many years, like

a friend of mine, Petrina Giordianella

Corsetto.

She was the host of a Bible study in her basement

in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, when I was a brand -new Christian.

And my very first pastor, Mike Gaydosh, of Calvary Baptist Church in Amityville, Long

Island, led that study.

And there are so many fond memories and so many good times that were

had there and so many learning experiences as a new Christian.

And so I had lunch with her and her beautiful daughter, Michaela, and I

had a great time of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram,

Long Island, New York, and his co -pastor, Christopher McDowell,

and many of the fine folks there in that congregation.

They had the Bible conference that was the primary reason I was there, the Spurgeon

Fellowship Conference, and it was just magnificent.

It was one of those conferences that proved that you do not need celebrities, celebrity

preachers, to pull off a conference that is magnificent and edifying and

with messages that will have lasting impacts on the audience for

many years to come, God willing.

And that was a conference that fit that category because none of the speakers were

outside of Long Island, were known at all, likely.

They were local pastors who were part of the Spurgeon Fellowship, and Pastor Bruce Bennett

was one, Pastor Micah McCormick was one, Pastor Jim Capo was one,

my former pastor Mark Romaldi was one, and

there were many other folks involved in the conference who created it

and oversaw everything that went on.

And I just want to say that I thank God that I was present there because it really was an

edifying experience.

I'm apologizing right now ahead of time for all of you who I did not mention, but

I just want to thank everybody on Long Island that made my visit there such a wonderful

experience, and I look forward to my return there, God willing, in December

when my friend, Pastor Jim Capo, who I just mentioned a moment ago, when he is retiring from the

pastorate and moving to Florida, and I will be, God willing, at his retirement celebration

and looking forward to it very much.

And he is one of my closest friends on the planet Earth.

And now that he'll be farther away, it will be a sad time

that I will not have as frequent opportunities to share fellowship with him, but I know that we, God

willing, will stay in touch nonetheless.

And I just really thank God for my friend Jim Capo.

And, well, I just want to say that if anybody is looking for an excellent Bible

-believing church on Long Island, go to Hope Reform Baptist Church, especially if you are

visiting or are living near anywhere in the Suffolk County area, and their website is

hopereformedli .net, hopereformedli .net.

Oh, two names just popped into my mind of speakers that I failed to mention.

My friend Anthony Uvinio, the founder of New York Apologetics, what a masterful

message he presented on total depravity.

And, in fact, one of my former pastors on Long Island, Doug Totter,

was sitting next to me during that presentation, and he leaned over to me and he

whispered in my ear, why do they need a preacher to give a message on total depravity?

They could just put your photograph up on the big screen up there.

So I'm glad I have a thick skin.

And that was very typical of my friend and former pastor, Doug Totter, his sense of humor.

But also a brother that I believe is going to be a household name in Reformed Christian

circles over the next years to come, Eli

Ayala.

I have had Eli on this program, and I plan to have him back on the program.

I had never until this past weekend heard him give a full -length presentation,

or I have never heard him preach a full sermon, even though I've known him for a number of years and I've interviewed

him.

And I was utterly blown away by this man's skill and abilities.

Mark my words, Eli Ayala is going to be a household name amongst Reformed Christians,

I would say, within at least the next decade.

He is on staff as an apologist for the Historical Bible Society, which is a client

of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and you will hear their advertisement shortly.

But now it's time for me to introduce my guest, who's a returning guest.

I'm looking forward to interviewing him again.

His name is Jonathan Landry -Cruz, and he's the pastor of Community Presbyterian Church, which is an

Orthodox Presbyterian congregation in Kalamazoo, Michigan.

And today we're going to be addressing his latest book, published by Reformation Heritage Books, The Christian's

True Identity, What It Means to Be in Christ.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Jonathan Landry -Cruz.

And let me give our listeners our email address if they have questions of their own.

Right now it's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E

-N at gmail .com.

And please, as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

Before we go into the topic at hand, Pastor Jonathan, can you please remind our listeners

something about Community Presbyterian Church in Kalamazoo, Michigan?

Sure, yeah.

We

founded

even

years, and I'm the

fourth

ministering here, and we're in Michigan about

four decades now.

I've been serving here now for

just

17, too.

We're a warden's sacrament here at Community.

Great, and I'm assuming if it's your 40th anniversary, the church was founded in the

late 1970s?

Correct, yep.

And I was wondering, was the church always in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church denomination?

Yes, this congregation was.

We're in a building that

was not,

though, a PRC

church.

Both of those denominations are in southwest Michigan.

I'm sure that the Protestant Reform Brothers had to swallow hard when they sold the building to a Christian Reform Brother.

Yeah, I don't know how that all worked out.

We've been there since the late 80s in that facility.

So third congregation in this.

Well, if anybody wants to visit the church of which we are

speaking, the Community Presbyterian Church in Kalamazoo, Michigan, if you live near Kalamazoo,

Michigan, if you are vacationing there, or perhaps you even have family, friends, and loved ones

who do not have a good solid biblical church home and they live near there, I go to

kalamazoocpc .org.

That's kalamazoocpc, for Community Presbyterian Church, .org.

And that's K -A -L -A -M -A -Z -O -O -C -P -C .org.

And I am looking right now at the beautiful building that you were just describing on your website.

And that is indeed a gorgeous structure.

In fact, it looks...

I know that you said it is a much more recent structure, but it looks like it could be centuries old.

Yeah, they did a good job giving it a nice...

People are always surprised.

And I'm going to give a shout -out, since you are an OPC pastor, I'm going to give a shout -out to my very

dear longtime friend, Pastor Bill Shishko, formerly a pastor for decades

at the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, now pastoring The Haven,

who sponsors this program.

You hear their ads every day.

The Haven, which is a church plant of Pastor Shishko under the oversight of the

Orthodox Presbyterian Church.

And that is in Deer Park, Long Island.

And, of course, you'll be hearing ads for them in the program today as well.

I had such a blessed time of fellowship with my dear friend, Pastor Bill, on my very last

day on Long Island before catching the train to Penn Station and then getting on an

Amtrak to Pennsylvania.

But I just wanted to give my friend Bill a shout -out.

And I know that my guest today is familiar with him, even though they have not yet met.

Well, we are going to be addressing today, as I said earlier, the Christian's true identity,

what it means to be in Christ.

And I think that it is important to define terms that we

who are born -again believers and disciples of Jesus Christ frequently use

because the world surrounding us is

typically clueless about these phrases.

And we sometimes become so familiar with these phrases, they have

become Christian buzz phrases, and we have buzzwords and slogans and so

forth, that sometimes we, in our ignorance, fail to actually

explain to those who are outside of Christ.

And we throw these things at them as if they already know what they

mean.

In fact, I think a primary one that Christians will often say

to the lost that they meet, Are you born again?

You need to get saved.

We throw these things at them, and they just are looking at their lives.

They may be enjoying lucrative careers, and they may be in a very happy

marriage, and they're saying to themselves, What do I need to be saved from?

What are you kidding me?

I don't need to be born again.

I like the way that this first birth turned out just fine.

So we have to be more careful and concerned about

explaining some of these main themes in the Christian life.

But first of all, before I even go through these main themes, and we hopefully

will get to all ten of these themes today, but if we don't, we'll just have you back and continue where we left

off.

But what was the primary catalyst in you writing this book

to begin with?

Thanks for that question.

Yes, so a primary theme is...

I'll talk more about what exactly that means.

In short here, it is what it means to be a Christian.

To be a Christian is one who, by the Holy Spirit, is drawn up and into Jesus Christ and everything that is

His.

It's a fundamental doctrine.

It is the fundamental doctrine of salvation.

And so the book came about through a desire to explore that and

teach that to my congregation in a sermon series.

And in the New Testament,

it's His love for the language of being in Christ.

He loves these little two -word phrases, in Him, or in Christ, or maybe sometimes in the Lord, or

variants like that.

And they're just these two tiny words, and yet they're packed.

I wanted to dive into that.

I thought, well, this could be a good way to do that.

We can just

look at these words and explore what exactly it means to be a Christian.

But then the other thing, Chris, that prompted this series was the subject

of identity.

Because that is a...

How does one identify themselves?

Identity.

Gender identity.

Ethnic identity.

It struck me that, you know, this is something that we're talking about a lot today in our culture

and seems to push against the Christian message, yet the subject of identity is one that the Scriptures take up, too, and

it's taken up in this language of being in Christ.

That is ourselves.

I thought I could seem of union with Christ and seem of identity

to both others, but also present a picture of what it means,

kind of identity we can own when the world

identifies upon us and to find our satisfaction in those.

I find my

identity in things that

are not,

or whatever it might be.

The soul needed it, so I needed it.

I thought my congregation needed it.

And then that inspired me to...

Yes, isn't it a tragedy when those, many of those who profess to be

Christians choose to have other things about

them sometimes parallel their identity with Christ,

at least in their profession, but sometimes even eclipse that identity with Christ.

Their race, and of course we know there's only one race, the human race, but the color of their skin

may be just as important to them or more important to them than their Christian identity.

In fact, there is a racist movement, a white supremacist movement that is

actually called Christian identity, unfortunately.

Very anti -Semitic and paralleling the Neo -Nazis and the

Ku Klux Klan and so forth.

And of course, there are black counterparts to that.

In fact, many of the black counterparts would even be found within our own

reform circles where the color of one's skin is being

declared as something that should be nearly as important, sometimes equally as important

as our Christian identity.

And we could go on and on with that, but being identified with Christ is supposed to make everything else

pale into insignificance, isn't it?

We're never supposed to lose our love for the people of our national and ethnic heritage, perhaps.

We perhaps should even have more of a burden to reach people from our own family

tree and our ancestry, those of that ethnic background with the gospel, although that's

not a command that we do that, but that may be a very noble activity that we are involved in.

And we may carry customs from our ethnic

and national identity into our own family life, as long as these customs and traditions and

ceremonies and celebrations do not offend God in any way or contradict with biblical principles.

But even though we are free and we have the liberty to involve

those things in our Christian life, they are to be really, as I said before, they are to

pale into insignificance when compared to our Christian identity, are they not?

Yeah, I think

they're insignificant.

They're very important.

One's race or one's gender, one's sexuality, very meaningful things

doesn't erase that priority.

Our identity in Christ is meant to be the fundamental identity that will claim

every other identity that we could possibly have.

To put it another way, the lens through which

she becomes accountable,

she would be having a gender identity.

Same thing with, as you said,

parents

or subordinates.

It's important they actually find their proper when we have

a union with Christ.

And so that way people aren't defined themselves, we mentioned things like race or gender, but even

things like

blessing and

who we are in a husband or wife is not

who we are in a fundamental sense.

It's so easy to elevate those and

make our identity

acceptable.

We find our worth, we find our value, our meaning in what we do for

our job from 95.

And when that starts to kind of give way, we think, like, who am I?

I've lost my job now.

What is the point of existence?

Find our identity in never

change,

never

be taken

away.

And making that identity, Jesus, who he is, what he has done,

that will bring into conformity all of these other ways in which we can tend to label ourselves

as bad in and of themselves, but we can make them, we can remove

the virtue from them when we...

Right, and of course, in regard to our genders, we

cannot...

Even though we can never physically change our genders, even though there is a claim,

there's a claim by multitudes globally that we can, and it is a

lie, it's a lie from the pit of hell, but we should be seeking to

honor God and glorify him in that gender that he created us and fulfill

our roles according to those specific genders.

So I didn't mean to suggest that that area of life is where to be ambivalent

about it or something.

No, absolutely not, yeah.

And, you know, when we find our identity,

when I recognize that who I am is really who Christ is making me to be,

you know, you think of Galatians 2 .20,

who loved me and gave himself for me, when we recognize that that's who we are, that's our life, that's what life

is about, an issue like gender, I'm

going to do what Christ wants from me in terms of how I might

identify myself, you know,

and find your sufficiency, find your all, and

when you do that, then those issues of

identity or conformity,

they'll begin to pale.

Well, before we go to the break,.

Why don't we start off with union with him, and of course we're speaking of Christ.

...chapter,

and

it's

not

being

identity,

not in anything that we could accomplish, not in anything we can do, but...

Amen, and don't you think that there are identifying marks that

although we will never have infallible omniscience on this

earth, there are marks that we should look for when someone claims to have union with Christ,

and I know that one of them is grossly and sadly and tragically

overlooked today, and that's union with Christ's people.

There are many mavericks and lone wolves out there who think that

perhaps this is an overreaction to the heresies of the Roman Catholic Church that places

far too much emphasis on the necessity and role of the Church

being the vehicle that administers salvation and

way oversteps the bounds that God gave mere humans, but at the same

time, there are many Christians that have run so far away from that idea that they think that it's

really inconsequential, immaterial, unimportant, not necessary for a

believer, a professing believer in Christ, to be attached to his body, to be a part of his

body, and what I mean by that is his people, to be a member of his Church, to be submissive to the elders

of a congregation that has been founded on the

Scriptures and on Jesus Christ himself, and I run into people like this all the

time who think that they can be free to just

follow Christ on their own, in isolation, apart from having any

responsibility or submission to a local church, and this is a fallacy, isn't it?

There's nothing like this that's ever found in the Scriptures.

You're absolutely right, Chris,

although we're talking about identity,.

Yes, and it's interesting that Saul of Tarsus, the

Christian -hating zealot, Jewish zealot, who

was persecuting Christians and having both

men and women executed for their faith in Christ,

Jesus Christ, from Heaven, stops him in his tracks, not

with the rebuke, Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting the

Church?

He actually says, why are you persecuting me?

And that shows you the close identity that Christ has with his body,

namely the Church.

Absolutely.

Well, we have to go to our first break right now, and as I said before, if you have a question, send it to

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com, and as always, give us your

first name, your city and state, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA, and only remain anonymous if

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arntzen.

If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours is Jonathan Landry -Cruz, pastor of Community

Presbyterian Church, an Orthodox Presbyterian congregation in Kalamazoo, Michigan.

We are addressing the Christian's true identity, what it means to be in Christ, and if you want to join us,

our email address is chrisarntzen at gmail .com.

Chris, Chris Arntzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Before we go to any listener questions, Jonathan, do you have anything further to say about the

union with Christ?

I know that we could spend several two -hour episodes just on that,

but in consideration of the fact that we want to get to as many of these main themes as possible,

we have to obviously summarize, but do you have anything pressing that you want to say about union with him before we go on to

chosen in Christ?

Yeah,.

I think program.

Yeah, well, this second theme is so precious because it

basically guarantees the eternality of this union, that he

chose us.

The majority of Christendom, sadly, at least in the 21st century, has

definitely got the idea, the overly emphasized aspect

of we choosing Christ, and that we are the ones that really,

through the final switch, that determined our eternal destiny.

And while I believe that

even compatibility with the doctrines of sovereign grace and Reformed theology,

we do choose Christ after he has given us new hearts.

But before that ever happened, before we were even born, or a thought in our parents' minds,

he chose us in him.

Yeah, absolutely,

and that's

where

it

began.

Yeah, you touched on something that has become...

When I became a believer in the doctrines of sovereign grace, it has become something so

revolutionary and so vital to my way of thinking as being a primary source of

my peace of mind and my comfort.

It is that Jesus Christ specifically and

purposefully chose me, not, as you were saying, some

kind of faceless, nameless sea of humanity

indiscriminately chosen, but individuals.

And one of the things that I have learned as a Reformed Christian

is that there are many Christians in the Reformed faith who do a lot of complaining

about modern -day Christendom being too self

-focused, too individualized, not enough emphasis on the corporate body of

Christ, and so on.

And I agree that that is true, that there is very dangerous concepts

being promoted under that umbrella.

But at the same time, when it comes to the Atonement, when it comes to the redemption that Christ

provided on Calvary, even in His unconditional election

of those who are His children, the fact...

When I really discovered and fell in love with the doctrines of grace, after militating against them

initially after coming to Christ, when I began to view

Christ on Calvary, not just trying to

save everyone, this nameless, faceless sea of humanity on the globe,

just hoping that these nameless, faceless people

would come to Him and trust in Him and His death

provided for them, that did not occur.

It was Jesus dying for specific individuals that He

redeemed and completed that act.

He said, It is finished.

This was a finished and perfect work and it will, with certainty,

at some point, be applied to the life of each and every one of these people for whom

He died.

That revolutionized my thinking and made my faith in Christ more

precious.

My view of what He did for me, something more cherished.

I could go on and on myself, but if you want to pick it up from there.

Well, just militating

against

it doesn't seem right.

One of the things,

why would God choose about me that is desirable?

And this is where this idea of being chosen, doctrine of union with Christ,

being in Jesus, because God does not choose us in and of ourselves,

in His Son.

And so that means that when Jesus came

and walked on this earth, He was representing us.

Everything He was doing was for us, on Him.

And He sees something that is desirable.

He sees, this is my Son with whom I am well pleased.

Our faith in Him, we become well -pleasing sons as well.

We are seen in Christ and so when God chooses us, it's not an arbitrary decision.

It's not a bad decision of all because He's choosing His Son.

And we are in His Son.

He chooses that which is best, that which is lovely, that which is pure.

We do have a listener who is choosing to remain anonymous who says,

I am grappling with this concept of unconditional election.

On the one hand, I routinely hear Arminians accuse Calvinists

of believing in a God who arbitrarily chooses those whom He desires to

save.

And at the same time, I hear the Calvinists totally opposing that

as a slander, saying that God does nothing arbitrarily.

But it seems to me that if there is nothing desirable in humans that would make

God choose us, how do we get around the arbitrary

accusation?

Right.

Well,

it's

not...

We have to pick up.

Right where you left off there when we come back from our midway break which is a lot longer because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in

Lake City, Florida, requires a longer break in the middle of our show because they need to, according to FCC

regulations, localize Grace Life...

I'm sorry, they have to localize Iron Trump and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida, and

therefore they air their own public service announcements during this long break when we air our globally heard

commercials.

So please be patient with us.

We apologize that we always have to have this longer break.

Than normal.

But remember folks, without the advertisements that you hear on this show, this show would not survive.

It would not exist.

So please use this time wisely.

Patronize our advertisers as frequently as you can.

And one way that will further ensure that you can do that is if you write down the information

provided by our advertisers.

So that way you can remember to reach out to them and successfully reach out to them and patronize them

and patronize them as often and as generously as you can.

Also write down questions for our guest Jonathan Cruz and send them to chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

Chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Jonathan Cruz after these messages from our sponsors.

Gotta tell you, for my money, Chris Arnson's radio program is just the best.

Iron.

Criticizing.

Iron.

I think that's what it's called.

This is Todd Friel of Wretched Radio and TV with Phil Johnson of Grace to You inviting everybody

to come to the G3 conference which has almost instantly become one of the best conferences in the country.

And it is.

It's a great conference.

I love it.

And Chris Arnson was there last year.

He's been there, I think, every year.

It's great to see him there.

You and I actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place.

So tons of stuff going on.

Tons of great speakers.

And no matter where you are in the building, you will hear Chris Arnson's laugh.

And that's worth the price of admission alone.

If you would like to join Phil, me, Chris, and a cavalcade of great preachers so it should be a

cavalcade of great preachers and me.

G3conference .com G3conference .com.

And now there's even more.

Exciting news.

John MacArthur himself.

Is now also on the lineup.

At the G3 conference Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th.

2020.

Go to G3conference .com G3conference .com.

See you there.

Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key

doctrines of the Christian faith.

I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet

where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer

and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron

Sharpens Iron financially.

Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would.

All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com where you can click support.

That's ironsharpensironradio .com.

As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

The church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church

in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how He shall be worshipped and how He

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They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

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Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a God -centered focus.

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Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Did you know that all believers are priests?

In 1 Peter 2, verse 9, the Apostle Peter describes Christ's church as comprising a chosen

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other

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I'm

so grateful to our Sovereign God that while manning an exhibitors booth for Iron, Sharp, and Ziren a major Bible conference

I providentially met Pastor Andrew Smith of Christ Reformed Community Church just south of

Jacksonville, Florida right off I -95 in St. Johns County.

Andrew is certainly the kind of pastor that is a perfect match for my radio show and has already proven to be an

ideal guest.

Christ Reformed Community Church shares my conviction that God is both creator and sustainer of the universe.

He rules and reigns providentially over our lives.

He directs not only the historical events of the world but also the personal events of individuals.

I agree with Christ Reformed Community Church that the very purpose of the church is to make disciples, that we are tasked

with the responsibility to evangelize locally, nationally, and globally, and that we are to equip

the saints for the work of service.

Unlike the man -centered seeker -sensitive movement, they do not gauge the success of biblical discipleship by

how many people are in a church but by the faithful ministry of God's Word and Gospel.

For more details on Christ Reformed Community Church visit ChristReformedCC .com.

That's ChristReformedCC .com.

Or call 904 -955 -9881.

That's 904 -955 -9881.

Tell Pastor Andrew that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

I'm Pastor Andrew Smith and I'd like to urge you to consider joining Christ Reformed Community

Church of St. John's, Florida in financially supporting Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American

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It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

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Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

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Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions,

coffee shops, and local hangouts, Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people.

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Chris

Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

I want to tell you about a man.

I have personally known.

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His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer but not the type that typically comes to mind.

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Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country.

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He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy and currently his firm has over 100

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If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim.

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I recommend that you call Dan.

Consultations are free.

There is no fee unless you win.

Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878.

1 -800 -669 -4878.

Or email me for Dan's contact information.

At chrisarnson at gmail .com.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnson.

Before we return to our interview with Jonathan Cruz on The

Christian's True Identity, we just have a couple of important announcements to make in regard to special events

that I hope you join me in attending.

The first is coming up next month, December 19th and 20th, Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th,

right in Manhattan, which in my opinion is the best place to be visiting during the

Christmas season.

And that will be right in the heart of the Christmas season in New York City, December 19th and 20th.

And the conference that I'm speaking of is the Foundations Conference an extraordinary conference

organized and hosted by sermonaudio .com and they are very particular

and rightfully so about who they invite to speak at conferences which ensures that these

are excellent conferences and true to his word and that there are gifted men to exegete the scriptures

to declare and defend these glorious truths.

I hope you join me.

This is restricted actually to men in ministry leadership.

They can only hold less than 200 people at this venue in Manhattan.

So if you are a man in ministry leadership, I hope you join me Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th for the

Foundations Conference.

The speakers include Dr. Stephen J. Lawson, Paul Washer, Rev. Jeff Thomas, Rev. Armin

Tomasian, Richard Colwell Jr., and Andrew Quigley.

If you want to join me Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th in Manhattan for the Foundations Conference, go to

thefoundationsconference .com.

Then in January, from Thursday, January 16th through the 18th,

2020, I will be attending once again the G3 Conference, which stands for Gospel, Grace,

and Glory.

This is being held once again at the Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia,

a suburb of Atlanta.

And it is always a phenomenal and extraordinary experience to be present at the G3 Conference.

And this will be my fourth time there for Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

The speakers include, once again, Dr. Stephen J. Lawson.

We have Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, a dear friend of mine since 1995.

Phil Johnson, the Executive Director of John MacArthur's Media Ministry.

Grace to you.

Who also happens to be the most frequently interviewed guest on Iron Trip and Zion Radio in our history.

My dear friend Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Radio.

Another dear friend, Dr. Tom Askell, whom I have known for many years.

He is the Executive Director of Founders Ministries, the Calvinistic Ministry and the Southern Baptist

Convention.

Stephen J. Nichols, the President of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by

the late R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries.

And, of course, not only are many others on the roster, but a man who has been the latest to

be added to the roster is John MacArthur himself.

And I would go to the G3 Conference even if he was on that roster all by himself.

I'm looking forward to that with bated breath.

The theme is Worship Matters.

If you want to join me there, Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th at the Georgia

International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia for the G3 Conference.

Go to g3conference .com.

G3conference .com.

I strongly urge you to register for an exhibitor's booth as well if it indeed applies to you

if you have a business.

If you have a parachurch organization or anything else that you want to promote to the Body of Christ in large numbers,

why not register for an exhibitor's booth just like I will be manning for the fourth year in a row.

And they always have over 5 ,000 people at the G3 Conference, so it makes it well worth

your investment to register for an exhibitor's booth.

This year, I am very confident I can't guarantee this, but I'm very confident with John MacArthur added to the

lineup, they're going to have over 6 ,000 people.

It's just a guess, but it's an educated guess.

So, if you want to join me Thursday through Saturday, January 16th through the 18th in the

Georgia International Convention Center at College Park, Georgia, go to g3conference .com g3conference .com and

register to attend and also, if it applies to you, for an exhibitor's booth.

Last but not least, if you love Iron Trip and Siren Radio, you don't want us to disappear from the airwaves, which

we are likely to do if we do not receive more financial assistance.

Please, I'm urging you, go to ironsharpensironradio .com click support,

then click click to donate now.

We really need your help.

For some reason that I am unaware of, our donations,

which were coming in large numbers every month for quite a while, they

have trickled down to just a tiny handful of faithful, loyal listeners who

are very generous, but since numerically the number of people who are giving has dwindled,

it is making it very difficult to make ends meet.

So please help us.

If you love the show,.

There are,.

On average, 35 ,000 people downloading this show every single month.

And obviously, if every one of those people gave a dollar, we

would never have to be begging you for money.

If every one of you gave 50 cents, we never would have to be begging you for money.

So please, those of you who have not given and you have the resources financially to give, and you

love the show, please go to ironsharpensironradio .com click support, then click click to donate now.

You can also send in a check the old -fashioned way via snail mail to the address that appears on your screen

when you click support at ironsharpensironradio .com.

Always remember, I never want anybody siphoning money out of their regular giving to their local church where they are a

member in order to give to Ironsharpensironradio.

Never do that.

Never put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to Ironsharpensironradio.

Never do that either because those two things are commands of God in the Holy Scriptures, providing for

your church and your home.

Providing for my show is obviously not a command of God, but if you're financially blessed above and

beyond your ability to obey those two commands and you love the show and you don't want it to disappear, please go to ironsharpensironradio .com

click support then click click to donate.

Now, if you want to advertise with us, we could really use your advertising dollars and as long as whatever it is you're promoting is

compatible with what we believe.

You don't have to believe identically with me, but as long as what you're promoting is compatible with what I believe, we would love

to help you launch an ad campaign because we really do desperately need your advertising dollars.

Send me an email to ChrisArnsen at gmail .com.

And put advertising.

In the subject line and we will try to help you launch an ad campaign with us quickly.

Also, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church and you're not even prayerfully looking for one, you are living in

disobedience to God, please rectify that.

I have lists of.

Biblically faithful churches.

All over the world.

And I have helped quite a number of people in our audience find churches that they have joined and also churches that they have

visited on vacation and also churches that they have recommended to family, friends, and loved ones who do not have a church home.

So please, if you are in need of my assistance, please just send me an email to ChrisArnsen at gmail .com and

put I need a church in the subject line.

And that's also the email address you can send in a question to our guest today, Jonathan Cruz, and that email

address is ChrisArnsen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnsen at gmail .com.

And as always, remember, please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA and only remain

anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

And by the way,.

I just remembered that our anonymous questioner you have won a free copy

of the book that we are talking about, The Christian's True Identity, What It Means to Be in Christ.

So please, send me an email with your full name, and obviously it won't be disclosed on the air because you remain

anonymous.

But send me an email with your full name and your mailing address so that's cvbbs .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service

can ship that out to you.

And we want to thank Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com, for always shipping

out the winning items, the Bibles and the books and the

CDs and the DVDs and everything else to our listeners when they submit questions.

We thank them for shipping those items out at no charge to us or to our listeners.

And we also want to thank Reformation Heritage Books, the publishers of The Christian's True Identity, for

providing these books for our listeners so that we can ship them out at no charge to

you or to us.

And just to give a plug to our wonderful friends at Reformation Heritage Books, their website is

heritagebooks .org, heritagebooks .org.

Going back to your statements before we went to the break, Jonathan,

obviously I know that there is great mystery involved in some of these

monumental issues of faith, including unconditional election.

But although, obviously, God the Father is choosing and

electing Christ and those who are in Him, our being in union

with Christ is also a miraculous and

glorious free gift of God that we, in our deadness

in sin, cannot voluntarily participate in until we have a new heart.

And the only people who get new hearts are the elect.

So, going back to the baffling question, how can we sustain a

view of God electing people without

considering a foreseen faith that we will introduce into the

equation, which is basically something good that God would see in us?

We know that, as Bible -believing Reformed Christians, that God does not elect on the basis of seeing anything

good or lovely or desirable in His elect.

So how does the arbitrary accusation against what we believe about His election

be removed?

We don't want to make a lifeless

doctrine or a doctrine that doesn't seem to make any sense.

And the only way we can do that is through the lens of

in Jesus we

would be pleased to choose us, even though

desirable in us, beautiful, that He would send His Son to represent us, to

stand in our place, to do all that which is necessary to be desirable of God.

And therefore, when He chooses us,

His Son, which is

choosing His perfect, pleasing Son,

to

conceive

us with His Son,

He says Christ is

so mysterious.

We see that in the Gospel, He's given us new hearts, He's made us new people, and He's conforming us more and more.

And, in fact, most people would understand

that when parents who adopt children,

especially when you are considering parents that adopt

seriously disabled children, they may have birth defects, they may have

really horrific scars, and all kinds of things that your

average couple would overlook those children, they would have no interest in adopting children like that.

And yet there are people, there are Christians, and others, who look upon these

children in orphanages and they say, I am going to set my love upon that

child, I'm going to raise that child in my home as my own child, and this child,

or these children, will have the benefits of my parental love that no other

children in the neighborhood, in the city, in the state, in the country, or in the world will

have.

These children, even though there was nothing outwardly, or even inwardly

beautiful, or alluring, or something that would draw a parent to

say, I've got to have this child in my family, there might even be some really

arduous trials and challenges, and things that

are going to be required to adopt this child, or

children.

They have set their love upon these children to the exclusion of all others.

Now, I'm not saying that these parents wouldn't have affection and a

level of love for any child, but they do not share

liberally their parental love, their unique love, with anybody else but those

children that they adopt.

And I think that, even though that human allegory is always full of part analogies,

there is still some remnant of connection there.

Yes,

and

attractive

they

are to

value.

Amen.

We do have a listener in Greensboro, North Carolina.

I'm sorry, not in Greensboro.

Let's see here.

Where did that questioner go?

Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina.

Grady says, Great show, brothers Chris and Jonathan.

The more I realize I was chosen before the foundation of the world, the more it grieves me when I

sin.

It also makes me want to seek forgiveness quickly.

Shouldn't this be our response being in Christ?

Absolutely, yeah.

Our identity is

getting

it, I think rightfully so.

Knowing that's who we are, knowing that we have been forgiven in Christ, not forgiven because we've

done something to earn forgiveness, but forgiven in part and because Christ paid our penalty.

And that's who we are.

When we recognize that, we're going to want to live out that identity.

Forgiveness, but then repentance and reconciliation, and live

in a manner as Paul says, worthy of the calling to which we've been called.

These all go together.

I mean, it's a

theological

turn into the life

of the believer.

Yes, the great controversy that divides brothers and sisters

in Christ, the Ordo Salutis.

For our listeners who are unfamiliar with that, one side, those who would not share our theologically

Reformed convictions would say that a

saving faith, a faith that pleases God, can somehow be

summoned up by a sinner from his dead and

sinful heart in order to become born again.

And of course there are different understandings amongst the non -Reformed about how much

God's grace is involved in that.

There are some Wesleyan Arminians who have an understanding of provenient grace.

And of course, you have Roman Catholics who we believe, if you

adopt the official understanding of the Gospel as laid out in the

Council of Trent, we as heirs of the Reformation believe you have a false Gospel because it includes

men at least in part earning and meriting their

salvation.

But we who are Reformed, we believe that men is totally depraved

from conception, and that means every part of him is tainted with sin and

enslaves him to sin, and therefore he cannot even offer to God a saving faith, a

true faith, a trusting faith, unless he has a new heart given to him first.

After regeneration.

Right.

And so the faith comes after the regeneration.

It comes after the new birth because in the old man

we would not want to choose Christ.

That's just a little summary of what that controversy is about.

And by the way, Grady, thanks a lot for your excellent question, and make sure we have your full mailing address in Asheboro,

North Carolina so that cvbbs .com can ship out that free copy of the book to you.

And we want to thank you also, Grady, for being such a faithful financial supporter of Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Going back to pardoned in him, it also

goes back to the certainty and the

definite nature of what we who are Reformed believe about salvation,

about forgiveness, about redemption.

It is not that God offers us a possibility or a

potential or a hypothetical salvation.

He has with certainty and with perfection accomplished

our pardon and our redemption and our salvation on Calvary.

And therefore it is truly mystifying, other than the

fact that men are fallible and finite, how

they could view Jesus as pardoning people with perfection

on Calvary, and yet in their minds there will be still millions and billions and

perhaps trillions or quadrillions of people in hell nonetheless.

Those two things don't really make sense.

I hate to say that those who are full -blown universalists have more truth or logical

understanding in their scenario.

We would believe that it is false and it is heretical, but it is more logically consistent to believe.

If you have in your theology that Christ died for every single individual who ever lived, then

it makes sense that they would believe that every single individual who ever lived would be saved.

This, of course, is false, so therefore it has to be that Christ

only died for an elect people.

And I'd like you to pick up on that as far as the pardoning.

The next main theme in this discussion and in your book

is righteous in Him.

We are, those of us who are of the elect, and who become born again

by His grace and mercy and power.

We become righteous in Him, and this is where there is a huge divide

between those who are heirs of the Reformation and those who are in the Roman

Catholic Church and also in world religions that would say

that our understanding of imputed righteousness or forensic justification,

they would say that this is all based on a lie, that it is

wrong for anyone to believe that a human is righteous just because of the grace

of Christ alone and His imputed righteousness.

They would say there must be righteousness innately actively involved

in a human in order for them to be worthy of heaven.

So this is a very serious issue that divides those that

claim to be children of God.

If you could pick up where I left off.

Yeah, well, I'd

open it up

that

the

righteousness...

Amen,

and the

reason

why

it's

a.

Great exchange, and I love that glorious, historic phrase, is

because not only does Christ cloak us with His righteousness, but He

takes upon Himself on the cross our sin, and He takes upon

Himself the deserved punishment of that sin, and His propitiatory

sacrifice, where He turns the wrath away from us, and has it poured upon

Himself from His own loving Father, and therefore there is a great exchange.

And I thank God for that exchange, because I know that I would never spend an

eternity with Him without it.

Absolutely.

We have to go to our.

Final break right now, and I know we have several of you still waiting to have your questions asked and answered, so

please be patient.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

If you intend to send in a question, do so now, because we're rapidly running out of time.

It's chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

Chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

Don't go away.

We will be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line webcast here.

Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my

very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope

Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new, beautiful facilities in Corham, Long Island, New York.

I've had the privilege of opening God's Word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always

been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my New York debates.

I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island to anyone who wants to be

accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the Holy Scriptures, and to be surrounded by truly loving

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I also want to congratulate Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham for their recent appointment of Pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder,

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Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island that you heard about them from James White on Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio.

Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.

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Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

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Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy and currently his firm has over 100

cases that have settled.

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Or email me for Dan's contact information.

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Linbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Linbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths

in the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service.

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It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.

It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages.

Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ.

In fellowship, play, and together.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Waldeman and I invite you to come and join us here at Linbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church

can be.

Call Linbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402.

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When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard

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Iron Radio.

Welcome back and we have a question from Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania for

our guest Jonathan Cruz and he says.

Pastor Jonathan, can you please help me better explain to my Roman Catholic friends that they are

incorrect when they make the claim that if we believe in salvation by grace

alone through faith alone, we have no other alternative than to believe that

unrepentant, wicked people who never truly follow Christ and obey Him will

still be in Heaven nonetheless.

I try my best to explain to them that those who are truly born again will bear good fruit,

but my arguments never seem to be successful.

Can you give me some help?

Yeah, the question

is that salvation is by grace.

People continue to live.

And they'll still go to Heaven.

And obviously it doesn't help matters when there are multitudes of professing

evangelicals who do teach that.

They do teach.

In fact, some of them would even say that we who are Reformed are heretical because we

insist upon repentance as a vital element in salvation.

And they will say that we are adding works just as the Roman Catholics do, but that is a

canard, it's a straw man, and it's not a genuine element of our belief.

Go ahead.

Harrison, please make sure you give us your full mailing address, because you've also won a free copy of The Christian's True Identity.

And if you could, I want to give you three minutes, Jonathan, to summarize what you most want etched upon the hearts and minds of our

listeners today.

Yeah, thanks.

My desire

to

find

meaning

and

value.

We

know

that

condemnation for those who are in Christ.

Know that we are new creation.

Amen.

And folks, if you want to purchase The Christian's True Identity, which is published by Reformation Heritage Books, please go

to cvbbs .com, our sponsor, because cvbbs .com carries

all of Reformation Heritage Books' titles, and if they happen to run out, they will certainly order it for you.

And I want to thank you, Jonathan Cruz, for being our guest today.

I want to thank everybody who listened, and we'll be inviting Jonathan back to

explore The Christian's True Identity in greater depth, since we didn't have time to cover all the aspects.

But I want you all to always remember, for the rest of your lives, that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you, our

sinner.