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00:07

Can you show me because we're gonna use some hermeneutics Can you show me anywhere in the Old Testament where that word perpetual is not perpetual because again,

00:16

I understand you're appealing again Sure Wait a minute,

00:23

I thought I was gonna get to have a talk you asked a question hang on a second, sir Be quiet. No, there you go.

00:29

I will mute you because it's not your show you asked a question I'm gonna give you the answer Genesis 6 for the word

00:36

Olam is used referring to those who were of old Deuteronomy, I'll get just rattle off all the ones where it's used not referring to perpetual

00:47

Genesis 6 for Deuteronomy 32 7 Joshua 24 to 1st

00:53

Samuel 27 8 Job 22 15 Psalm 247 24 9 25 6 41 13 77 9 90 verse 2 103 verse 17 106 verse 48 119 52 1 feet of 43 3rd verse 3

01:15

Proverbs 8 23 Proverbs 22 28 Proverbs 23 10 and Ecclesiastes 110 should

01:23

I go on for more? blah blah blah blah blah To answer your questions your host from striving for eternity ministries

01:45

That never gets old All right, well welcome to apologetics live it is

01:51

Thursday night Which means we're here to answer any question that you have about God and the

01:57

Bible because yes We can answer every single question you have about God in the

02:02

Bible. You doubt that Come on in and join us and find out the way to join us just go to apologetics live

02:09

Calm and there is a link there. You can watch it there There's the link for the

02:15

YouTube if you want to watch on YouTube and leave comments from YouTube Or there's a duck icon for StreamYard and that is how you join us you can join and ask any questions that you have and We will be happy to answer them

02:32

Tonight we don't have a specific topic, which means anything can happen But we don't have a specific topic tonight.

02:39

We are going to be talking just open Q &A So any questions you have we're gonna be seeking to answer them

02:45

Let me bring in none other than the one the only pastor Justin Pierce. Hello.

02:50

Hello. Hello. Hello Hey, Justin, you're your friend your friend in mind my fellow co -host on the

02:58

You know on my other podcast the rap report we were talking on the rap report about Ravi Zacharias talked about the fact that he had he had claimed at one point that he had a doctorate from a university and taught at that University and the

03:12

University had said that You know, there was that he never attended classes there that he never got a doctorate from there.

03:20

And so I You know bud and I talked about it We talked about how easy it is to get a doctorate and well,

03:27

I got something in the mail to this week I got my very own doctorate, but Look at that.

03:36

He wrote my name right there where it says your name here so I could I could say

03:41

I have a doctorate of ministry You are right Dr. Divinity Andrew rap report from the

03:49

Universalist outreach church or whatever right Universal Life Church Seminary That's exactly where I want my doctorate

03:58

Well, you feel official right Well, you could see you could see it.

04:04

They signed it and everything. They just put right put your name here so he just wrote it in a marker and I will say this actually the funny thing about this is

04:14

You know, I got this I thought I told him I was coming down to Florida and I said when I get there You know, I want to you got it.

04:20

Yeah, give me that Well, he he gave it to me in this nice frame. I mean the frame actually is a really solid frame

04:26

It's really good. He spent more on hit on the frame than you did on your doctorate. That's pretty Yeah, I Almost just I was toying with the idea of leaving it up, you know

04:38

Either up above me right there where that is. Yeah, they're a manuscript from The Ten Commandments out of Deuteronomy and and here if I move my head, there's my shofar

04:50

And yes, I do know how to blow the shofar Should not do it indoors though.

04:57

It's quite loud. It is definitely meant for outdoors I I am toying with if it wasn't so expensive of a gift.

05:05

I was toying with the idea of bringing it to California There's a guy that when Ray comfort preaches. There's this guy that blows the shofar and I was thinking of bringing mine

05:14

Because I've seen his his is a little one and I could be much louder I thought of dueling dueling so far

05:23

To get a crowd so Up with the race and I had a brother of mine a good friend.

05:31

He's a messianic Jew or biblical Christian Thank you. Okay, I'm just saying but but he has the shofar and they blow it every

05:39

Saturday that they do their Services whatnot so he comes out and he went right out in the middle of the race area and he just started blowing that thing

05:48

And I said, you know so far so good, but just a little much Loud.

05:54

All right. So we have we have some questions already Bill is asking Andrew Rappaport. Are you buying dinner tonight?

06:01

No, my wife made it. I didn't need to Chris is asking will dr. Silvestro be on tonight?

06:06

No, we tied him up and he's actually laying down there on the floor in the Yeah, we're trying to prevent

06:12

Anthony time no actually dr. Silvestro is up teaching right now With Mike Riddle, they're doing one of their communication courses that they do with CTI he will he's up.

06:26

So he's up in Denver. He's gonna try to make it Doesn't know what the Internet's gonna be like there.

06:31

So we'll see I do have some some big news To mention but before that let me bring in our other guest co -host just to add confusion.

06:41

We'll have another Justin's That's right the man Yes I Am doing well doing doing very well.

06:50

How are y 'all you're becoming a regular here? We're gonna have to start adding to the list of hosts and just put your name on the list there.

06:56

So it's Anthony Justin and Justin, you know Yeah We got it we got to come up with some way to distinguish between Pastor Justin and this

07:08

Justin. Oh How would you like how would you like us to distinguish? How about how about we do it by age?

07:13

Let's do it by age Oh that doesn't help. Yeah So which one of you is actually older in months because we now know you're the same age today.

07:21

We just found that we just found out He's older than me by two months.

07:26

Is that right two months? Yeah. Yeah two months Wow and Four days too much in four days.

07:32

So with all that growing his beard. He looks like he's older than you by years It's the red it's the

07:39

Scottish, you know, it's coming out So so, you know, there's something

07:45

I want to announce and and I'm gonna put it this way It's it's funny that Justin would be here because Justin actually makes fun of me when we travel together

07:53

He does because even when I travel we go to the Philippines. There's a couple of things I bring when

07:58

I travel one I bring lots of cables. I have this little bag I always travel with this and he thinks it's funny because he his his he didn't have a phone cord that was working

08:13

And so he needed one and so I opened my bag Let's see if I could do this and these are all the cables

08:20

I travel with. Yes so so basically I travel with a ton of Cases of cables and all sorts of batteries and things so I'm never without Oh, Chris, Han holds has said howdy.

08:34

You'll be listening while driving home praying for a good show. Hey Chris We love Chris. What's the reason radio?

08:41

You should listen to that and I was gonna bust on Chris During this show, but he has a headache and I'm not gonna do that.

08:50

I did have a plan but He has a headache but I but there's another thing that I travel with that Justin Peters thinks is funny and That is that I always travel with my my pillow.

09:04

I Love it. I'm sorry, but that leads us into some news now now Justin Pierce.

09:10

Yeah, go ahead. I'm on my pillow What's that? Have you ever slept with a my pillow?

09:15

I have two of them now I'll let you go ahead and give your part first All right, well just Justin Peters have you slept on him up with a my pillow

09:25

Yeah. Yeah, I got one on the bed now. Okay, so Here's the thing.

09:31

What we're doing is weeks. I like humble clay says love my pillow. Well This now you guys have a way of not only getting what

09:42

I think is the best pillow in the world But also supporting striving for eternity My pillow is now a sponsor of both the rap report and my and apologetics live

09:53

We are now sponsoring upward pairing up with them and with their working out arrangements But they gave us a special 800 number for folks to call and I should have created a thing for the a banner for this

10:06

But I'm sure Justin will by the time Know as fast as he is. So we have a special 800 number if you want to get a my pillow, it's one eight hundred eight seven three

10:21

Zero one seven six, so I'll say it again one eight hundred eight seven three zero one seven six and the promo code to use is

10:31

SFE for striving for eternity SFE or you could go to my pillow And if you go to my pillow, what you do is you click on my pillow comm click on radio listeners

10:42

There's a radio listener square there and for the promo code put SFE You could

10:48

I don't know if it matters if it's all caps or not But put SFE in there and you also will get deep discounts what kind of discounts right now you can get one of their premium queen -size premium my pillows for $29 .98

11:04

It's regularly like $69 .98 so you're saving $40 if you go and get a queen -size my pillow right now

11:13

That's one of the things I they have a whole lot of products there. They have Towels and sheet bed sheets they have

11:22

See, I knew you'd be that quick, you know, there you go. There you go. So my pillow one eight hundred eight seven three

11:30

One zero one seven six and the promo code is SFE So that's how you could go get the my pillow queen -size if you want to get a king -size my pillow

11:41

It's only five dollars more than the queen -size, but you can get it for under $30 a pillow that is usually $70 so say

11:52

That's a that's a good pretty good discount and you're not only getting like the world's best pillow

11:57

You're also helping striving for attorney you're helping to keep this program on the air So we appreciate

12:03

I I love my my pillow Matt slick used to laugh at me until he got one and now he travels with one too.

12:12

So What I what I was gonna say is I got one probably nine months ago.

12:17

I got actually two of them I bought one got one for for basically free You know, it's how it is buy one get one and I got two of them

12:25

My kids stole them. So they they've got it. But the reason I got it is because you know you know

12:32

Mike Lindell was being attacked because how dare you be a Christian and and and Speak, you know the things of God speaking in the things of righteousness and definitely don't be a conservative and so You know, unfortunately, he's being

12:48

Just maligned and slammed. They're trying to cancel him and everything else and so guys if you've got the money and I mean if you can throw

12:56

You know a couple dollars that way to to get the pillow get a product from them and to support

13:02

We really need to be able to support one another, you know as Christians and as conservatives as well

13:08

Because the cancel culture is alive and well, I mean very much so Yeah, we were actually my wife and I are planning on Getting my wife was just like, you know

13:20

I want to get I want to get some of his pillows as gifts for people and so we're gonna

13:26

You know, we're gonna be hopefully Doing that now, you know, there is some question, you know

13:35

For Christian folks that have been following, you know You know,

13:42

Mike Liddell's been very passionate about his his conservative politics You know, he's he's a relatively new

13:50

Christian he's got a book out I think on his life came from a you know background where he was

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I think it was crack that he was on and Basically ruined his life and started the my pillow and really his life turned around He is professing a professing believer

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Though I think he may be in the word of faith so you know, but You know, he's he is

14:16

Uses the platform that he has with his company to promote Christ I I don't know if you guys saw when when

14:23

Trump allowed him to speak He did what you're not supposed to do when you're given that opportunity and he he basically tossed his notes and just preached a gospel to the press

14:33

You're you're at least try to and so that was a you know That was encouraging to see but I do think it's a great product

14:41

And so I I use it I love it and I encourage you guys if you need a pillow

14:48

You know clergy talk said he needs a good pillow well, the the the solution there is to go to 1 -800 or go to my pillow comm and in the the radio listener square put the promo code

15:01

SFE or What you could do is just call 1 -800 -873 0176

15:11

And the promo code again is SFE now you can get deep discounts not only on the my pillow products on all the my pillow products including their their their sheets and their their

15:22

Their mattress topper their towels. They even have bathrobes there now.

15:28

I just noticed they even have pajamas They got a lot there a lot more than you know, I knew of previously.

15:34

So What we're gonna do is I want to Really open it up tonight to anyone with questions now

15:43

There was a question here for since Justin you're here There was some questions for you before we get to that.

15:49

I would like to bring in we did have a Review and that was emailed to me, but the person who emailed it is actually here.

15:57

So I'm gonna bring him in And Brad welcome to the show

16:06

Thank you guys. Thanks for having me on. I really Really appreciate it and just a just a pleasure to be here with y 'all and to spend this time with you.

16:14

Thank you Thank you Actually gonna say just a little just a little shorts just a little short thing here.

16:21

It's pretty amazing actually how I'm actually here watching this and just God's grace through this because One of the one of the people who's in the chat right now

16:33

KT and Jesus I was While back I was following Tony Miano for a while and you know was didn't think much of you know, what was you know, anything that was going on and stuff and Somebody had wrote on Twitter asking for a good church in Davenport and Not really knowing anything

16:53

I kind of had heard some stuff actually because I live in Iowa and my church heads I think actually had some people that went there to grace

17:02

Fellowship Church, and they said They said yeah, that's Good and but at the time

17:09

I kind of just disregarded it but So I Sent a text or I Copied Tony and I just you know said here you may want to talk to Tony about this

17:22

Well, then KT and Jesus sent me something through Twitter saying hey, you may want to check into this

17:30

And so it led me to you guys and I've been watching you ever since and I just can't thank you enough for your ministry how much it's blessed me and how much

17:41

I know it's probably blessed so many others and just want to say thank you and God bless you all

17:48

Well, thank you very much. That is encouraging because I'll speak for myself, but I think pastor

17:54

Justin would agree Doing those shows was not easy No, I Really felt bad for Anthony.

18:03

He spent like hundreds of hours Researching all that and it's just he was listening to all the stories of all these women.

18:09

I mean women that haven't come public yet and he would talk with them and their husbands and they and they would explain what went on and the husbands and wives and and it was hard for him to listen to he was just you know, he could he he couldn't even tell me most of them because He just didn't want to even repeat him

18:30

It was sad very sad, you know, yeah, so I guess well my questions just kind of Just something

18:39

I just has I've been thinking about So it's as it has to do with As to actually go back there goes to Genesis so just trying to figure out what this kind of just Understand this when it says

18:54

Talking about the waters above the expanse Trying to just make sense of what that I guess what that's referring to What what is it?

19:04

and I guess just more or less just trying to see how it correlates to what we know about how God created the universe and Just seeing how what that's all about.

19:12

Yes I sent this question over to Anthony for him to email you and he probably get to it when he's back gets back from travel, so He's probably gonna have

19:22

Looked into this a little bit more but when I taught through Genesis and hmm,

19:29

I think that the the idea is that there's just there was just Waters now there is a theory that some had

19:38

It's not as many people hold to it now There was this idea of a canopy theory. And so what many would say is that there was this canopy of water

19:47

That was in the air and that blocked out the Sun's radiation That's why people live longer and then when the flood what it actually was is the canopy broke and all that water came down and that's

19:57

How it flooded the earth There's that's how some interpret it. That's a commonly held position by many of the older creation scientists

20:09

The reason that many of the creation scientists don't hold to that today is simply because it doesn't work

20:17

I mean if the math doesn't work if there was such a canopy The earth the temperature on the earth.

20:23

The thought was that it would be this even temperature Where it's warm and you wouldn't need clothes and all things like that but it actually would be too hot and There there's just some issues with it mathematically and so people don't hold to that anymore

20:41

Okay, now What is it well, I think I my position is just that there's there it's trying to explain

20:48

That there was a difference between these different layers And he's explaining it, you know that and so this is

20:57

Genesis chapter 1 verse 7 and God made the expanse and separated the waters which were above which were below from the expanse of the waters which were above the expanse and it was so and God called the expanse heaven

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Okay, so The idea there is that there is some level That you have between what we would call clouds and the water and the water that's we'd say on the ground

21:26

One thing that you may want to also consider in that Discussion is you know, you have what's called the ozone layer, you know, and we have that up there.

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That would be a type of Canopy if you will and and so When you're looking at Genesis, I mean you're looking at non -repeatable events, you know

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Miracle events worked by God where God works into creation to create what has never been

21:56

And so when there's when we're talking about this, this is speculation, you know, it's Some of it is speculation because we weren't there and so we have to look at what the words say and as Anders you know saying some people looked at it as canopy theory and There's been a bunch of them that have went with that route and then others that have said no no, no

22:20

You know, what is it? I don't know. I wasn't there. I You know,

22:25

I personally I just I look at it and I say it's what it says right there in the Bible You know, it's it's it's the heaven, you know, it goes up in the heavens

22:34

God called the expanse heaven. So That's where I'm gonna go with it and that's about as far as I'm gonna push that Yeah, and I'm not gonna go

22:44

Into you know, an atheist comes along starts talking to me about this and they're trying to disprove or you know agnostic whatever

22:51

They're trying to disprove The Bible and they start going because they do it they'll go to this section here

22:57

They'll say see this is disproving and you wait a minute. This doesn't prove or disprove anything, right? Okay, all this tells us is a narrative about what what actually happened, right?

23:07

That's more or less what I'm thinking. It's like it's you know, it's not to do away with it It's just to just make just make understanding of how

23:13

God did it. Now. Let me give one warning. Okay? This is not poetry. Okay?

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That some people will say the neo -orthodox Guys will say this is

23:25

Hebrew poetry and it's there is nothing in Genesis. That's actual Real from the first seven chapters that it's all

23:35

Hebrew poetry and that is not what this is I agree. This is historical narrative is what it is.

23:42

So you have to Stand on that and don't let anybody try to gear you towards you know, because here's the thing

23:51

The Ark Encounter guys and Justin you're gonna be going down to this conference. They're going to this conference.

23:56

These guys stand on this hard every single doctrine is either explicit or implicit in Genesis, why do we have sin?

24:08

You know, who's our who's our Messiah? You know, what was sin all of those things the Savior you're talking about Where's Israel come from?

24:15

What's the purpose of God all of the things? Who is God? How did we get here?

24:20

Have we been here for you know, thousands of years or millions of years. So this is not you know, some kind of Poetry or or whatnot.

24:29

This is historical narrative stand on that. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, totally agree

24:38

Peters You have anything you want to add to that well,

24:43

I kind of wish Jason Lyle was here with us Yeah Okay, so here's a free story with Jason Lyle I Remember, we're

24:56

I picked him up at the airport. He was coming to a church by my house he was coming to the airport, so I said

25:03

I'd pick him up and and You know, he stayed with me the night and then he went to the church

25:08

So we're sitting there and I told him I said, you know, we got Bible study, you know It's in when teaching through Genesis.

25:14

How about you teach tonight? You know because he could just rattle off this stuff like real easy.

25:20

He's like no no, no, no No, you teach you teach. I want it I mean look you got you got Jason Lyle and you're talking

25:26

Genesis. Give me a break. Like he's the guy to have right? so I Fortunately know

25:33

Jason well enough that every time a question was asked I gave half answers

25:40

And He was like, well, let me answer that So after a couple of them, he just got into teaching mode and he just took over and I got to sit back and just enjoy

25:53

So if you ever want him to you know teach you just have to give half the answer, you know Don't give full answers and he'll take over a

26:03

Little trick that would do it. Yeah. Hey have you guys speaking of Genesis?

26:09

Jason Lyle and I actually were at the first ark encounter conference they had

26:16

Jason was out there with Ray Comfort and a bunch of the guys were out there and they were doing the the

26:22

Easter conference And so Anthony Anthony was there with his family as well And so I got to sit and talk with Jason for a little bit about a question that I had on Genesis chapter 1 verse 5 and God called the light day so he makes the light verse 4 and 5 and I asked him

26:41

I said, you know when we're talking to atheists and agnostics evolutionists and whatnot they try to throw up the problem with the the the distant starlight the red shift all these different things and they'll try to throw out these arguments and I asked him

26:55

I said I want to ask why is it that That Christians don't stand on the fact that God it says here in plain

27:05

Hebrew that God Saw the light that it was good. Let's go. Let's go back to verse 3.

27:12

It actually says And God said let there be light and there was light.

27:18

Okay. I said Why don't we stand on the fact that God made all the light and not made the light to travel?

27:24

He made it all at once in place where it's at and then it started moving in its normative relation to you know, the scientific ability of light and He and I sat and talked about that for a little bit and he said, you know, that's

27:37

People are afraid that you're you're dealing with miracles and people are afraid that you know, they would you know dismiss that I said

27:44

But they're already dismissing it. You see the point that's being made here God didn't make the light at Mars and then say

27:52

I'll give it a million years to reflect over here to earth or whatever it takes or or and you know, the the farthest light that we know of and And give it that amount of time to come here

28:04

God created the light and all of it was created Well, here's and here's

28:10

Jason's reason for saying that he doesn't hold to a position that God created light millions of light years away that would travel here and the reason being is

28:23

We've seen Stars die. Yeah, absolutely and Therefore it would take

28:30

Many light years to get here But there haven't been in that many light years to even

28:38

You know of the earth So the idea would then be that God actually created the light of a dying star that of a star that never existed

28:48

Right that would that would almost be deception. So he has a very interesting view of starlight that It's always a good view

28:58

Scientifically when no one can ever disprove it. There you go Okay, so you end up with a view that that becomes you know, if you can't disprove it then you know, it stands, right?

29:09

I like an Oort cloud. Yeah For people that don't know the Oort cloud is this idea when you have things you have

29:17

Comets that can't last long because you like that Tail that you see on a comet that's material breaking off so they can't last millions of years

29:25

So, where do the comments come from? Well professor Oort came up with a cloud. He named it after himself the

29:30

Oort cloud and so he says that just makes more material the the thing that Jason's position is that what we can measure is

29:42

The round -trip speed of light in other words if we're gonna track light we have when you look at the way time works you can't set a clock in two places and Know that they're synchronized.

29:56

Oh, yeah, because you have gravity that the move the moving of the clock exchange it so there because of those factors you can only test the light by shooting it off of a mirror far away and Testing when it returns

30:09

But the thing we don't know is the one -way direction the speed of light one direction.

30:14

So in other words it could take You know what? We call the speed of light to get to the mirror, but it comes back instantly instantaneously.

30:23

Yes And that could then explain where we're seeing the light instantaneously from something that's millions of years

30:30

Away, and that's my point. That's what I was That's what I'm trying to point out is that God making this this light it traveling in an instantaneous fashion

30:39

Yeah, and you know as he and I were talking about that. He actually agreed He said he said yeah That's a that that is a solid and a lot of theory is going into it that that says that that's a really good sound

30:54

Yeah So Brad you have any other questions for us tonight? No, I think that's it

31:00

Yeah, just one one last thing. I guess I just want to say something to Justin Peters Brother, thank you

31:09

Just for your ministry God saved me but going over about five years ago and He's He's used you tremendously to bless my life, and I just can't thank you enough

31:25

For you and I just I just want to just say thank you

31:32

Brad thank you brother that that makes my day. Thank you, and I Appreciate the encouragement actually

31:39

I today is a day. I could use a little encouragement so praise the Lord brother. Thank you so very much

31:45

You Brett Thanks Brad, I'll put you in the backstage and if you have any more questions, there's a private chat just let us know

31:54

We'll bring you back in Justin Peters dot o RG That's where you can check out his new website.

31:59

Very nice -looking website after the old one was was needed the update for some years

32:06

So let's we got some other people in backstage and some questions before I do I do want to a lot of people have been emailing me and contacting me

32:16

From the show we did last week with Robbie Zacharias, and the reason that a lot of people were contacting

32:23

Contacting me basically was because some other things happened in in I was gonna say the news, but really social media and It is that site mbruggen

32:35

Kate which many of us know he was up here on our 100th anniversary He publicly announced on his

32:41

Facebook that he's stepping out of ministry and We are saddened with that many people learned a lot from sigh we don't know the details and nor do we need to know the details of His his moral failure, whatever that is

33:00

But a lot of people are making the comment between Sai and Ravi and there is a distinct difference that we see between these two and and what we see is

33:13

Sai did what Ravi should have done Sai had accountability with his pastors

33:21

He stated that it was his he has accountable to them. They know about it This was you know with their decision that he's out of ministry that he said he was he was disqualified from ministry now

33:35

The thing that you end up seeing here and the reason because many people brought it up is

33:40

I want to talk about the differences Yes, I'm seeing in this that Sai was showed repentance

33:46

Ravi did not Sai had accountability Ravi did not When it was brought to Ravi he covered it up when it was brought to Sai he repented publicly and Made actions.

34:02

He he shut down his his teaching. He said he's not going to be teaching He's not gonna he's shutting down his public

34:09

Facebook page, I guess he's gonna keep his private Facebook page he's Not gonna be going to conferences and things like this.

34:17

So what I want you to see here is Sai did What we would expect someone to do

34:25

Okay, what we would have hoped Ravi Zacharias would would have done. Yeah There and let me just give warning for those who are

34:36

There there are always some who They they want to know what's what is it?

34:42

What is it? What did he do? What happened? Well, let me let me answer that for you. Let me be really really clear and let you know none of your business

34:53

Right. Okay. Now if he decides to come back into ministry if he's gonna start teaching again, then yes

35:00

I would say he would have to Say what that is He he's not a pastor

35:08

He's not a pastor, you know, there are this isn't this thing where we have public pastors that we can apply first first Timothy 520 where if pastor sins you you you address it publicly so all will repent

35:24

They all be if I should say I don't think that that's necessary for him

35:29

And for those of you who are trying to figure out what that is It's none of your business.

35:36

Yeah Okay, it's just isn't and so what what should we be doing for Saitam Brunke right now?

35:42

Well prayer. That's what you do One of the things that is

35:48

Concerning me is the fact that you know sigh For those who don't know he he had a job he gave it up to really to take care of his mother and to to do the ministry and And Now he is many years without a job, you know

36:07

We'd be doing the ministry and I'm sure that many of the people who used to support him will probably stop that typically happens

36:15

And I don't know what his plans are For that, but my encouragement is that right now

36:22

I would say if you're supporting him You know, you may then you may have reason to ask him what it is

36:30

But if it's something where you can continue to support him You should until he can find other means of employment

36:40

But we should be praying for him we should be recognizing that he did what someone like Ravi did not and This is this is the difference

36:53

Okay, he's he's not trying to avoid I mean Think about this folks

36:59

How hard do you think it was for him to put a public post out there knowing that? Thousands of people are gonna be talking about that.

37:06

That's not an easy thing to do that shows some humility Yeah, exactly.

37:12

His pastors made him do it Okay, do you know that You know, we don't know that.

37:19

I mean, maybe you do I don't But I'm gonna look at this and say no I I think that this is a display of repentance

37:28

As far as I can tell repentance and humility and Someone we need to lift up in prayer.

37:35

You know, I think that a lot of times within the body of Christ. We have a an

37:42

Elevation problem we have where we lift people up to the point where that they must be absolutely perfect and sinless and And if they fail in any way we just you know bandwagon we all jump to attack and and look

37:58

That would be terribly hard I mean you guys heard me talk about this the other day if Andrew did something that Was to or Justin or myself if we did something that that was to bring repudiation upon the name of Christ rather than doing the

38:14

Ravi Zacharias route of hiding it until death and Threatening people and you know being manipulative and everything else

38:24

We would burn down Whatever it is that's going on here because none of it is

38:30

Compared to the holiness of Christ and what I want to say here is for every Christian. I want to I want to Humble clay post to this.

38:38

I want to say this sinless perfection is heretical because I want to say this Every single person on this panel and that you know, you're a pastor and everyone else

38:48

They need your love and your prayer and your support. They need your care. They need your concern

38:53

They need to know that you know that they are a sinner saved by grace and every single day

38:59

They need the gospel themselves and we need to gospel one another you see what happens

39:05

Unfortunately is we forget that we are all sinners who are recipients of a great gospel from a great

39:12

God We forget that and we don't preach that to ourselves and we don't hold up You know

39:18

The Bible says that if you have an error or a fault or a temptation if you have a sin

39:24

Go to your your church your brothers and express that. Well, you don't know how many pastors that I know

39:31

That have said that if they were to even hint at any slight imperfection that they would be gone

39:40

Because a lot of people in the churches are and a lot of people in Christian communities They don't look and say what's this person do?

39:50

You know say hey, I have an imperfection. I have a sin. I have something a temptation that's causing

39:55

I need help I need help. They're not doing that. What they're doing is they're saying How dare this man be my pastor and have any flaw?

40:04

Yeah, I'm sorry, but the only perfect one is Christ Okay, but what Psy did and I want to make sure

40:10

I get this out What Psy did is that instead of hiding it for whatever reason?

40:17

he went public and none of us would have known if he had not went public with his

40:24

Public stepping down and I agree with Andrew you talk about humility I see it on a whole new level of Humility that I hadn't seen before not in Psy and I gotta tell you it's it's heartbreaking

40:39

But I'm gonna be praying for my brother, you know, well, let me let me just put this out here Chris Honhold says while it is the it is right and good to hold public leaders accountable.

40:49

We still need to grow We still need to show grace in doing so and with what you were saying

40:55

Let me just say that a great podcast episode To listen to Is voice of reason radios help the pastor is drowning it was his award -winning episode that Was that he had so if you go to voice of reason radio just search for help.

41:16

The pastor is drowning It's a great episode to to encourage you when it comes to pastors now

41:21

John you you had something that you wanted to say then we got some questions here and we got to bring and O 'Brien's

41:27

Backstage we want to bring him in sure Can you hear me? You know,

41:32

I don't hear you at all. Okay. Well, first of all, first off just pastor Justin always seems to steal my thunder

41:41

So, I don't I can't really top what he's he just said earlier, but I will say this about Psy He is an amazing guy and I So many people

41:57

Are saying, you know, it's like, you know, how could this happen or why is he doing yes, or Why do you do that?

42:04

And I just wanted to say that God never wastes a hurt Okay, let me let me say that again and let that sink in God never wastes or hurt and All I can say is that we should be thankful that God allowed

42:27

Psy to be in this position where he is able to repent openly and to confess what he did

42:37

Because it could have went way south. I mean it could have went really bad like Robbie unfortunately

42:46

Not that I'm saying not that I'm comparing that that what Psy did was Just as bad, but what

42:53

I am saying is that ultimately what I'm saying is this is that all things work towards the glory of God and you know what if this means that if God needed to tear down completely everything of size ministry

43:12

In order for God to have all the glory Then so be it

43:18

And that's that's the only thing I can really think of I mean, we don't I mean I can just speak for myself I don't have enough details to know this situation

43:28

But you know, I I do see some differences here. So with that let me get to some questions

43:35

That we got so that Chris asked the question this one's Justin Peters. This one's for you questions for Justin Peters Any and Brian, I know you're backstage, but the reason

43:46

I'm bringing this up is because we're gonna lose this question We only have so many comments that we can go back to so I wanted to get this before we lose the question question for Peter's Any thoughts on the news of the quote wild donkey unquote spirit that Jennifer LeClaire If I'm pronouncing it right

44:06

Jennifer LeClaire came up with recently also Is she Popular among those in the

44:14

NAR and the charismatic movement. So Justin, you know anything about this Yeah, I do and thank you

44:21

Chris for the question your name though Chris calculus that calculus triggers me because I I did really well in math

44:29

All throughout school until I hit calculus and that was like hitting a brick wall for me. I just I Did really well in math tree.

44:38

Well, I used to as well when I was in college I had the same problem, but I had but probably for a different reason we had we had a guy who wrote a calculus 3 book textbook and He was convinced that if we understood calculus 3 that would help us to understand calculus 1 so he started teaching us calculus 3 and The entire class was like we don't understand calculus at all

45:04

It just killed us and so then when we had to take calculus 2 They realized that would like our entire class had a special calculus 2 class

45:12

We we had this like half the year was a rush through calculus 1 and then calculus 2 Basically, I think they just passed everybody because they realized they hired the wrong guy

45:23

So you you probably have a better reason for not knowing calculus that Yeah Yeah, well, yeah,

45:30

I just it was it was bad I I couldn't get it but the the wild donkey spirit.

45:35

All right, so Jennifer LeClaire was the editor of charisma magazine and she's

45:42

I think now that I'd have to look up her exact title now, but Jennifer LeClaire is as loony as Sid Roth she

45:53

She in just the last few years. She has come up with the sneaky squid spirit.

45:59

Everybody's heard of that There's a sneaky squid spirit. There are water demons There's the

46:05

Python spirit now the wild donkey spirit. I mean this woman has a whole zoo of spirits demons like a zoo,

46:13

I mean she's practically could write a taxonomy of Demons all the ones that she's identified

46:20

Looney Tunes. None of these things are in Scripture and she actually says that she has

46:27

The gift of discernment and she's written articles on discernment. Oh My word,

46:32

I mean Jennifer LeClaire when Donald Trump was inaugurated back in 2000

46:38

Hey, Justin, hold on, you know, you're saying that she has the gift of discernment You're Saying well, she's saying that you're saying you're saying she says this but you know,

46:50

I listened to your podcast You know and you've been doing these podcasts where you know, you have something from that movie bride princess bride

46:58

Word means what she thinks that means Yeah, you've been doing a whole series on on that word.

47:05

I don't think that means what you think it means Yeah Jennifer LeClaire has the discernment of a shovel

47:15

Oh Man he's not Robbie wasn't swimming in it.

47:21

He was Yeah, so this is the latest the wild To use her wild ass spirit wild donkey spirit.

47:36

That's so that's the latest one in her stable of Demons that she's identified.

47:42

So I mean She's she's crazy. He's absolutely

47:47

Z. She claims that God speaks to her all the time She says back when

47:55

Donald Trump was inaugurated the day of his inauguration right I think hours before his inauguration

48:03

God spoke to her and said stranger what said danger danger stranger danger

48:11

Danger danger stranger danger. That's what God told her and then she put this thing up on the social media and whatever

48:18

Instagram whatever she used and said that there was there was a danger in Washington DC a

48:23

Physical danger to the president of the United States or the soon -to -be president United States She's crazy.

48:29

Just loony But see,

48:34

I mean this is the woman who was the editor of charisma magazine and Charisma magazine is

48:40

I Mean, it's it's if they as I think

48:46

I said it on this program once before Sid Roth and charisma magazine. I charisma magazine is what the

48:53

Babylon B wants to be when it grows up Nothing on charisma magazine nothing

49:02

Well, that's why I posted Joe 12 You know, it says an idiot will become intelligent when the

49:11

Wild donkey is born of a man. I'm thinking there she is Yeah No, we do.

49:18

We do an answer to your question there That you had asked earlier and I gotta say that so Chris says to you

49:26

Justin Justin I have a bachelor's degree in mathematics from a secular University calculus man is my superhero name that I came up with For those who have trouble with math, lol.

49:39

So now, you know, he is Man, that is so we're Chris Han holds dresses up as Captain America Chris dresses up as calculus man.

49:49

I don't know what that looks like. But all right there there was a question that I saw

49:56

I think I Think it was from bill that he asked of me. I'm trying to scroll back so we could find it

50:03

While you're trying to find it, I want to ask you was the stranger danger wasn't that schoolhouse rock Wasn't that the little the thing that the schoolhouse rock did to as a child safety thing?

50:14

Yeah, I think it was Conjunction for you right now

50:28

We want to hear no, okay, I'm not a singer All right.

50:34

So here here was Bill's question for me He said at Andrew Rappaport question for anyone well, okay, that's not for me

50:43

Since the elect since the elected debt sin was canceled at the cross

50:49

Colossians 214 Why are we born spiritually dead? So let me read the passage that he's referring to Colossians 4 214 says

51:00

And what we're going to do actually is back up because you never want to read just the verse Let me at least back up to at least verse 13

51:10

When you were dead in your trespasses you're in when you were dead in your transgressions and uncircumcised in the in your flesh

51:19

He made you alive together with him having forgiven us all our

51:25

Transgressions having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of the degree the decrees against us, which was hostile to us and He was taken out

51:39

Taken it out of the way having nailed it to the cross so the question being with this is that What you end up seeing here is yes for us in time when we think of it in time

51:55

And this is a thing we have to it's hard for us to wrap our heads around But when we we look at this we have to remember the fact that we view things in time

52:09

God Doesn't necessarily view things in a time order Okay As far as we would know he's he would be outside of time.

52:19

I would say he created time Genesis 1 1 Is the creation of the time matter space continuum, so that is the beginning

52:29

I believe of time Which would put him outside of it what we would call time.

52:34

So this is a question that Is challenging for us to think about but to God if he's outside of time

52:42

He's omniscient meaning he's all -knowing Therefore there's not a person that's saved that he didn't know at any point what we'd call time

52:53

He didn't know that we would be saved and so this would be a thing where what we end up seeing is the fact that There's this a point when you and I experientially

53:07

We were not saved we would say we're we're spiritually dead and That is true in the state if we were to die before we came to Christ But God wasn't didn't allow that to happen.

53:22

And this is the the thing we have to understand We are born with a sin nature.

53:27

We're born spiritually dead and yet God already knows That he paid for it at the cross

53:35

Every sin it said all our transgressions when was it paid it was nailed to the cross 2 ,000 years ago

53:43

Every single sin we've ever committed are committing or will commit is all future to the cross and yet It was all paid back there.

53:52

That was the payment Now you could someone could say that well the judgment hasn't the judgment seat hasn't happened, okay we you could you could argue that way, but the the the reality is

54:10

That we already have eternal life we already have the righteousness of God of Christ we we are in a position of being

54:22

Glorified we're not there yet in time, but positionally

54:27

God has justified us So the the question becomes a little bit difficult because of the fact that it's a one that we

54:37

Experience that I would say God does not So he hats the right in a way that we understand things

54:46

That we can comprehend and so there's lots of times where God will use what I call baby talk

54:52

He'll talk down to us so we can understand things that In reality, we can't fully understand

54:59

So what you have is a case where in time? We would say that we were we had a point we're born

55:08

Spiritually dead we're enemies of God. We got saved now. We're adopted into his family.

55:14

And as you look at it that way We end up seeing that This is an experience

55:24

Okay, that's different than the reality of our theology. And so, you know when we look at this

55:32

Yes, we're born with a sin nature There we are, yeah, well

55:41

Do it that way so we can see all this. Otherwise, you only see half of Justin's head So the the idea there being is that the the debt was paid back then

55:53

But We are not experiencing that and so when we speak of us God looks down and sees us in a perfected state

56:01

He knows he knows the end from the beginning the beginning from the end That's different for you and I we don't and so yes, we have that sin nature the sin still influences us and yet he

56:15

Though he paid it at the cross. Mm -hmm. It wasn't applied until he regenerated us

56:22

And you also have to think about it too is when you're talking about election God's election was before the foundation of the world

56:29

You know, he his electing purpose in Christ before he created any of his creation

56:36

And again with that though, that is baby talk right there Right, right, because how do we understand and you read the context there in Ephesians?

56:45

How do we understand what it means that he elected before the foundation of time? That's right right before before there was anything

56:52

We can't comprehend that and really what that is the whole point of that is to say you had absolutely nothing to do with your salvation

56:58

Because he made that decision before he made the the universe.

57:03

Yep before he said let there be light He knew those whom he would elect and so it's the point of it to say that you have nothing to do with it, but that's speaking down to us because you

57:15

And I we could not comprehend Being outside of time. We can't under comprehend eternity

57:22

I Think about it when Joanne says Justin Peters looks sad No, he's waiting to jump in.

57:30

He's our feral cat just going after See that I put it where it's just the you know, like a big screen like that so you don't see

57:39

Justin when he's I Mean look people don't understand, you know, it's not easy for Justin it you know by the end of the day.

57:48

He's up early You know, he's got to dress himself. He's got all these things to do all day.

57:55

And then at night, he's popping on here probably because his wife is like, okay, I've had enough of you all day.

58:01

Why don't you go hang out with the dog?

58:06

I mean, none of us have these responsibilities of eating and combing our hair. Well, look, look, no, but seriously, you know, you think, listen,

58:15

Justin, you're working on papers for school, but he just only uses two fingers. Justin Peters only uses two fingers to type.

58:21

You know, he's one of these guys, you know, it takes him longer. Do you picture how long it would take him to do his papers that you have to write?

58:27

I use voice to text. What are you talking about? No, I'm just kidding.

58:34

All right. So Justin Peters, you want to add to this? Yeah, a little bit. When I'm home, when

58:40

I'm home, Kathy does help me dress. So that's a huge, huge help. She helps me when I'm home. So when

58:45

I'm on the road, that's yeah. So anyway, let's look at, bring your attention to Romans 8.

58:52

This is the often referred to as the golden chain of redemption.

58:59

Romans 8 29 through 30, for those whom he foreknew, he also predestined to become conformed to the image of his son so that we would be the firstborn among many brethren, brothers and sisters, depending on your translation, and these whom he predestined, that's from eternity past, these whom he predestined, he also called, and these whom he called, he also justified, and these whom he justified, he also glorified.

59:27

Now, right in that one verse, you've got every point of Calvinism to use that term.

59:35

It's an unbreakable chain, but notice the last one. He also glorified past tense.

59:44

Now, I don't know about y 'all, but I haven't experienced my glorification yet. None of us will until we kick the bucket and we go to the other side of eternity.

59:56

Not here. We have not been glorified, but it says right here in a past tense, he also glorified. How is it he glorified us when we haven't yet been glorified?

01:00:04

Because our glorification is so certain that God speaks of it in the past tense.

01:00:12

It is because it was secured in eternity past, even though we haven't yet experienced it.

01:00:18

It's not an experiential reality for us yet. It is so certain that God speaks of it in the past tense because it was part of, was and is part of his eternal decree that he decreed in eternity past.

01:00:32

So it's kind of one of those tensions between the already, not yet. Our glorification is a reality in the sense that it has been secured by God, but we haven't yet experienced it.

01:00:48

Does that make some sense? Yes. All right. Well, let's bring in Brian Simmons.

01:00:58

Welcome, Brian. How are you guys? Good, good. And we should plug your free radio .com.

01:01:05

Is that right? Yes. Yes. What I wanted to say quickly is talking about superheroes, nothing like the book behind you.

01:01:12

Check out that book right over his left shoulder there. Oh, both of them. Two of them. What? Philibuses.

01:01:17

I like that. What do they believe and what do you believe? Watch out. But I wanted to say, is nothing top spiritual

01:01:23

Batman? And that's the key on the superhero side. And spiritual Batman is the guy down there in the corner,

01:01:29

Justin Peters. I'm fascinated by your Star Wars drawings back there, the

01:01:35

TIE fighter and the X -Wing, and that's what I'm... My kids are quite the artists,

01:01:40

I will say. I changed the background. My wife's like, my wife goes, all the guys on the things, they have all these amazing bookshelves, and you probably have a bookshelf.

01:01:49

I'm like, I'm going to have my kids' artwork in like a, whatever. I'll make my own green screen of kids' artwork.

01:01:56

You're talking about your background, and look at Pastor Justin. He looks like he's in prison, and he's now trying to put product placement up there, like you have, but he then covers it with his head, so he doesn't even know how to do product placement there.

01:02:09

We're all learning. We're all learning. We can't all be good as... There it is.

01:02:15

Nice. I wanted to first, Justin, you know, we met a couple times at the

01:02:21

Striving for Eternity conferences, and I really appreciate your teachings. The discipleship that we seek, that many of us seek inside many local congregations, that specialized teaching is just not available, and a lot of times not even sought after.

01:02:41

So I really appreciate that specialized teaching of helping people, especially that are in churches, or they're in a congregation, that they come to the truth that it is a false church, and one of my good brothers in Christ, and I'm not saying

01:03:01

I had a great grasp on it as well, but I knew that I was like, wow, you have to watch these sermons, and the cause without orders, and all these ministry tools that I had come across and listened to live, and I knew, you know, when we try to do these things with grace, and love, and kindness, it's so...

01:03:22

when you don't have a real good grasp of it, that's where I think the human side can get angry, and combative, and want to win an argument, and ego involved.

01:03:33

But through the teachings, as you were able to place them into our hearts, and putting it out there to the world, just to be able to share those videos has led a lot of people out of false churches.

01:03:44

So I really appreciate your work, Justin. Thank you. Thank you, Brian. I appreciate that, brother. Very encouraging.

01:03:49

Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord. Just real quick. This is what looking tired looks like.

01:03:55

If you look there. Oh, oh, hey, John. Just figured we'd bring you up here. That's embarrassing.

01:04:03

Yeah, we like to get John. Look, as you can see, John has his name as Cluck Commander. Oh, you can't see it if it's...

01:04:09

here, John puts his name as Cluck Commander. So he does that so that he can, you know, just so he could be you know, we usually catch him sleeping or eating or something like that.

01:04:22

Well, in following up to those teachings, and to Justin, to Andrew, to Pastor Justin as well, very important, something weird happened recently.

01:04:32

I get, I've been getting drawn into a lot of different business opportunities and in different industries, not even, like I used to,

01:04:38

I came from martial arts. That's kind of all I did in the last five, six years. I've done nothing but not martial arts.

01:04:45

So getting involved in other businesses, I came across somebody who said something very odd.

01:04:51

It immediately put me on like my heels, like whoa, like stop and I thought it was important to ask just your opinion on these types of comments and things that people say sometimes and the person was really trying to draw me into a business endeavor.

01:05:06

It seemed as such and in the process said that if I, that there was a demon on my back and this is his words.

01:05:16

I don't agree with it at all. But this is what he said. It bothered me. I have to say it though. He said there was a demon on my back and if I didn't run this event and consecrate all the money to God that the demon was never going to leave me and I was,

01:05:30

I literally almost got nauseous on the phone. I didn't know what to do. Was he watching the movie

01:05:37

Animal House where they've got the little devil on one side and the angel on the other fighting it was so weird.

01:05:44

I honestly I thought I was in the Twilight Zone and I stopped and I was like I started talking about like trying to put in this false like gospel sharing this prosperity like demonic thing.

01:05:56

Like I was like, how do you know that? I have a deep like the only there's probably only two things and maybe I'll ask you guys.

01:06:01

What are the two things that would are things or you know, what are the two beings or creatures? What are the two things that could know if a demon was on somebody's back or not?

01:06:11

Probably a prosperity gospel right or a demon or God probably am

01:06:17

I thinking and am I wrong? Yeah, brother. You have nothing to worry about as a believer a demon cannot attach himself to you.

01:06:27

So this is just some nutty charismatic ding -dong that has nothing better to do with this time than to make stuff up and and proclaim things as being from the

01:06:39

Lord that are nothing more than his vain imaginations. So no, they're that's garbage.

01:06:46

That's garbage. Demons are real. Demons are real. Of course, but but they cannot attach themselves to regenerate people.

01:06:54

If you're regenerate in Christ all things passed away all things made new there that you've you've got new ownership.

01:07:03

So and you have a great greater is he who is in you than he who is in the world.

01:07:09

So yeah, he who's in the world. Really good book on spiritual warfare.

01:07:17

By the way, since we're kind of in this field, I don't hear truth or territory.

01:07:23

Yeah, we have a copy of it handy, but I was looking to see if I had a copy. I have I have a couple downstairs.

01:07:29

Yeah, the title is truth or territory. What about the

01:07:35

Jim Osmond book? It's by Jim Osmond and you could just go to jimosmond .com Thank you guys.

01:07:40

Thank you so much. Gene's suggestions to get all of Jim's books, especially the one that Pastor Justin just put up.

01:07:47

God did God doesn't whisper. That's a great book. Excellent. So like moving forward through this obviously with a person like that first off,

01:07:57

I you know, would I be to not do business with them based upon not, you know, seeking counsel and potentially of the wicked.

01:08:07

I mean it because it was a wicked doctrine that was thrown at me and a mean thing to say as well on top of it, whatever you spiritually terrible, but humanly mean,

01:08:18

I don't want to work with the person. But what I just how do I go reconcile that relationship with him as he proclaims

01:08:26

Christ is his Savior. He talks Jesus talk, but this was this came out of left field for me.

01:08:33

Yeah, brother. I tell you I here's what I would say and I don't know the depth of the business relationship.

01:08:41

I would I would have no problem doing business like if you know, if some word of faith person owns a restaurant,

01:08:50

I mean I would go and eat there. You know, I you know,

01:08:55

I'm not saying that we should you know, we can't enter into some kind of business transaction with word -of -faith people, but but what

01:09:05

I would not do is I would not have fellowship with them. I would not pretend like they are fellow believers in Christ because word -of -faith stuff that's a different gospel.

01:09:16

So I would not will not pray with them. I would not pretend like we're on the same page spiritually, you know,

01:09:22

I would buy a ladder from them if they own a hardware store something like that. I would buy, you know,

01:09:28

I would fill my car up. I guess if they happen to own a gas station, I need some gas, but but is if you're talking about a close business like an ongoing kind of a close business relationship, you know,

01:09:42

I wouldn't say that that would be inherently sinful. But if they're going to continue on with this kind of theological garbage, you know,

01:09:53

I I couldn't have an ongoing friendship with with someone like that.

01:10:00

I would evangelize someone like that, but I certainly couldn't pretend like we're on the same page spiritually because we're we're not.

01:10:07

Thank you so much. Does that help? Yes, absolutely.

01:10:13

I absolutely appreciate it. I had sent over a little Bible study on first fruits because that was actually what he was going to was trying to say that first fruits was, you know, was specifically about just giving all your money and it was it was very odd, but I really appreciate it guys.

01:10:30

I will I will I want to reconcile all relationships, but I have to also in Andrew teaches me this all the time is some relationships maybe aren't meant to, you know, be at times to like there's reasons why you part ways with people.

01:10:44

And one thing I'll see one Brian if you don't mind. I I had five men come to our church and not in a row not altogether, but in consecutive order they came to our church multiple times driving by God told me to come in and take over the church

01:11:07

God revealed to me. I was supposed to be the minister of the church. I'm supposed to come in you need to bow down.

01:11:14

You need to give me authority this happens all the time in the Christian world is

01:11:20

Satan will try to send people into into our churches and it can be somebody's just misled and don't get me wrong because people you know, people believe hokey weird things and they hear stuff and they just pick up on it and and they're just not discerning, you know, that doesn't mean they're not safe.

01:11:41

But then you also have a group of people that will try to twist the word of God and they will try to like this gentleman trying to tell you that the demons are doing whatever they're doing and whatnot.

01:11:52

So what I did I had a lot of people in church was was really concerned, you know, what's going on? What do demons do at what kind of power and authority they have in the

01:12:01

Christian life. And so I did a I think it was six or seven part series on a doctrine of demonology because I wanted to know what the

01:12:11

Bible says about demons how they interact with humanity and how they can interact with Christians as well as Justin Peter said they can't touch you and I'll just put it to you this way.

01:12:25

They can't lay on you a physical presence like that. Now what they can do is have people come in that are not

01:12:32

Christians that are, you know, bad teachers and things like that and they can influence them to influence you.

01:12:41

You have to be careful at because somebody could come along and tell you you got a demon on your back and you don't and so the next thing, you know, you start, you know, trying to you know, pray to the the

01:12:51

Hokie gods or whatever you want to call it and you start you start running around there trying to, you know, exercise the demons off your back and you know, next thing you jump into Roman Catholicism, but I posted on the chat back there a link that I did to the intro to demonology.

01:13:09

And so it's on the back there if you want it. I put it up here. I put it in the in the chat up here as well.

01:13:17

So everybody can look at it. There's a like so there's about six or eight sermons that I did about that because I just want everybody to know, you know, because I don't want you to I don't want any one of us to think.

01:13:29

Oh a demons going to get me because you know, you can you can give yourself over to you know, weed boards and worship and everything else proving that you're never were saved.

01:13:38

But as a true biblical Christian, you're sealed with Christ. You're sealed with the Holy Spirit. You are you've you've overcome the world by the one that has overcome for us and you don't have anything to fear.

01:13:50

So thank you so much and I really appreciate that that resource as well to share. All right.

01:13:57

Well, Brian, we're going to put you in the backstage. If you have any more questions, just let us know in the private chat and we

01:14:03

I don't see unless I missed some questions in the chat. If anyone has questions, just come on into apologicalive .com

01:14:12

and YouTube or well, you can ask questions on YouTube or Facebook. But if you if you want that what's better we'd like to see faces and so go to apologize live .com

01:14:23

click on the little duck join us and that way we can get your questions in so in light of not having questions that puts us in a position here for Justin and Justin you have a choice.

01:14:39

I'm going to get in trouble. He's he's needs. There's another question popped up. So I guess we're going to ask Justin Peters.

01:14:45

I'm gonna let you have it. Pastor Justin. They can bring mental confusion through non -believers if they don't stay grounded in Scripture.

01:14:56

Okay question, but I was trying to get away from the game.

01:15:02

I didn't know what we're going to do. So we have a choice. Justin Peters, I'll give it to you you have a you you have the choice we can either critique a videos from October of 2020 with Naomi Zacharias Robbie Zacharias his daughter.

01:15:25

Or we could just grab a random video from Kenneth Copeland Ministries and see if we could find anything unbiblical in what he has to say.

01:15:36

I was going to say which one are you not going to find something unbiblical in? Well, I see them.

01:15:44

So your choice you want Naomi Zacharias or Kenneth Copeland? That's good.

01:15:52

Yeah, let's I don't say that one. I think we beat that horse. Well, no, see we haven't dealt with Robbie's daughter.

01:15:58

It was actually quite interesting when you with the daughter because it's before everything came completely out.

01:16:06

And so in hindsight, it's it's kind of interesting to look at what she she had to say.

01:16:12

So go any further though. Chris Honhold is has a headache and he says you're going to aggravate his headache more and he's having a hard time getting that costume on from that buddy the elf thing.

01:16:23

So he was he sent costume from video. I don't think so. Someone that has a buddy the elf costume for the record.

01:16:33

We do. Huh Copeland will take care of his headache.

01:16:40

He'll do the binding. So KT and Jesus says asks someone in here asked about what are your thoughts on the

01:16:49

Equality Act? So before we play Kenneth Copeland, well, let's let's talk the Equality Act.

01:16:55

Okay, Chris Honhold says in all caps no less don't bring up the elf saga.

01:17:01

Okay for the millions and billions of people that are going to watch this video in the next 10 years.

01:17:06

We didn't say anything about that elf thing. Yeah. And now

01:17:12

Joanne says now Billy, you know, he blew the virus away. So yes,

01:17:20

Copeland Copeland took care of the virus. He blew it away. So Chris says that I'll take care of the headache over Copeland any day or I'll take a headache over Copeland any day.

01:17:33

All right, so views on the Equality Act and I'm probably going to deal with this with bud on my rap report this weekend.

01:17:43

So there's there's two things. I think that were interesting that path that one that did pass.

01:17:48

I guess today broke the tie vote was Kamala Harris to if you guys really enjoyed the 2020 election.

01:17:57

Well, obviously the Democrats did so they want to nationalize it and they just passed their bill to you know, this was

01:18:05

I think they were. Yes, it Kamala Harris Kamala Harris was the tie -breaking vote.

01:18:12

So it goes to Biden to sign. So so not only did the Democrats pull off a coup without shooting a without a shot fired now, they're enforcing that the coup stays by making sure that they are never out of power again because now they have the power of the mail -in ballot and so they're going to have this and it's interesting because on the same day that that came out,

01:18:39

I don't know if you saw the news that there was someone in Mississippi that was a there's Mississippi that was arrested that that 76 % of the mail -in ballots were fraudulent and and the notary had had signed off on them.

01:18:55

Yeah, 76 % but there's no but it's a conspiracy to say that there's voter fraud. That's conspiracy.

01:19:01

Well, and you have to think about that when you're talking in this I said this two months ago.

01:19:07

What was going to happen was that we were going to end up having this a national overturn of elections to where the only people are going to get in office ever again.

01:19:17

And I said this years ago that this was coming but the only people that ever going to get in office again would end up being those people that have paid or played the right way for the those that are in power right now.

01:19:33

You don't have to worry about a fair election again. Your your rhinos are well and good.

01:19:39

They are going to stay in power. There's going to be more rhinos in power and it's going to shift left and left and left.

01:19:45

Let's stop saying left social social social communist communist communist communist because the left pushes towards communism now they didn't used to but they do now and and the only thing that yeah 1984 the only thing that you're going to see is more and more corruption and probably more cocaine parties with the the sun going out and and partying what you're not going to see is you're not going to see any true legislation that's going to stop the rape of children the murder of children the child trafficking because these people love their depravity.

01:20:26

Yeah, and it is it is, you know, there are some states who are now passing bills to try to overturn some of this.

01:20:32

And so I think it will become a battle of the states versus the federal government just like Obama had so and now, you know, the courts will probably side with you know, they'll be interesting to see how the court sides with this whether this is constitutional because the

01:20:45

Constitution is quite clear that the states make those decisions and challenge all the way up Supreme Court and that's and if they'll take it but yeah, what's the name of screaming everybody, you know,

01:20:56

I am concerned here. Hold on. Let me see if I can if I can get this. There's there's something right over Justin's.

01:21:03

It looks like there's a giant rat over his left shoulder right shoulder there right shoulder. Yeah, it looks it looks like a giant fuzzy rat.

01:21:12

It's dead. Look at it. It's laying there. He shot it. Yeah. Well, if look at what commander can't bring us chickens on the show anymore.

01:21:26

If he won't get chickens on show, we need your rat. Okay. So so the Equality Act with this one basically this this is an attack on Christianity.

01:21:37

Yep. Oh, yeah, this is this is an attack to basically.

01:21:44

Where the church will be forced to have to now say that and praise homosexuality.

01:21:54

Or and if they don't then it's going to be a thing where they're they're going to be charged and sentenced.

01:22:03

Let me what we see with Pastor James Coates is just the beginning and they'll use the

01:22:08

Equality Act to do that. Now. Someone did ask about James Coates and what's going on with him.

01:22:14

So let me just follow up real quick with that as well. James Coates.

01:22:20

Oh, Melissa says that Mia is she's cute. Stop picking on her

01:22:25

Andrew. You can't even see if she's cute. You just see a fuzzball there. Okay, you can't even see the head.

01:22:32

So Melissa, I've seen me it's it's it's it's a rat with fur. I'm sorry,

01:22:38

Justin. Justin's just I don't get it. He likes the you know, she's cute. She's cute.

01:22:46

If you like rats, I okay. So I think that the

01:22:52

Equality Act is one that's going to be used to shut down churches that don't support homosexuality.

01:22:59

The the naming of it is the audacity to name it the Equality Act. No, it is nothing.

01:23:06

There is nothing in it. That's equality. It is. It is the the anti -christian

01:23:11

Act. Maybe the pro -homosexual Act if you want to call it that but it is not equality.

01:23:20

They're not all asking for equality for all people. They're asking for special rights for a few people, you know, and and that that is the difference.

01:23:30

It's you know, they're whenever you hear people say they want equal rights. They usually don't.

01:23:37

They usually want extra rights. They want a certain group of people that they that they identify with to get extra rights that to because they're somehow, you know had been underprivileged.

01:23:50

And now the only way to make up for it is to give them extra rights. This is no different than CRT critical race theory same thing.

01:23:58

And this is why these two are tied together because what you end up having is you end up seeing that that these people that push this do not want equality equality is an impossible goal the way that they lay it out.

01:24:16

The way they lay it out is that to have equality means that we all we all must be treated equal.

01:24:24

We almost have equal. Well, that's impossible. There's only one president of the

01:24:30

United States. If we're going to use equality the way they they argue, then we all should be present

01:24:36

United States getting that salary. There can never be one person that has anything that another person doesn't have and they they say it that way because it sounds good.

01:24:46

I like what KT is saying here. That's that's good. Thank you. They want favoritism not equality and that's true.

01:24:54

Think about what favoritism is they want they want favoritism that's within their own party and within their own structure that's willing to promote them and give them the money the power and whatnot, you know,

01:25:08

I think John McCarthy at the nail on the head, you know, this is the time that is the you know, the diamond the diamonds going to shine a lot brighter in the book in the backdrop of the persecution that's coming, you know, if you look at second

01:25:23

Timothy, for example, what we find out last days are, you know, perilous times are going to be coming men lovers and themselves boastful.

01:25:31

They're going to be arrogant proud self -righteous. They're going to be malicious gossips brutal haters of good, you know, you have to ask your question when a somebody like Jerry Nadler can come on and say which

01:25:47

I listened to it. He actually said to the person that brought up the thing about this

01:25:53

Equality Act talk about the homosexual thing and the transgender and forcing these kids to be a part of this.

01:25:59

He says Jerry Nadler said something. I don't have the video pulled up but he said something to the exact effect of no matter what you're saying the will of God has no place here in this

01:26:11

Congress. It's not exact quote, but pretty close but and you have to think about this then if it's not

01:26:17

God's will then who's will is it? It's Jerry Nadler's will. That's right. Just usurped God and he has become the

01:26:23

God of his own mind. Unfortunately, when when government officials do this you now step into a realm where they are bringing on the wrath of God for the whole nation, you know, they're bringing the wrath of God upon themselves upon their government

01:26:40

Authority and as you know, Romans one tells us they have a debased mind. They cannot think right.

01:26:47

And so they think it's good to put Christians in prison to hate them.

01:26:52

Yeah. You know, Joanne Joanne says here. I don't want men in a bathroom or dressing room with my girls, you know, at the same time.

01:27:00

There's a woman who now is suing a bridal shop because the bridal shop didn't tell her that the guy who is helping her was a guy.

01:27:11

No, it's a they had a guy in the dressing room helping her get the dress off as she would try these different dresses.

01:27:20

And it's a guy who says he's a girl helping her get undressed and and dressed and so she is she is suing them and yet now with it with all these laws the bridal shop can't tell her that this is because this person's identifying as a girl.

01:27:37

They have to accept that is why Chris Honnold says we're we're fully of Romans one culture. Well, and you think about this as as the body of Christ and I asked you

01:27:47

Andrew Justin. I'll ask you. I've asked you last week. I believe it was about this.

01:27:53

Is the body of Christ as the church going to have to end up going underground and going silent for the the visible part and having to like we see

01:28:06

Maya. Hold on there. There she is for a split second. We could have yeah, we could have seen her but you know,

01:28:14

Maya no no Mia. Well, whatever. It's a rat. It's a rat.

01:28:20

Where was it here? Here's Joanne says Andrew has a mean streak tonight talking about Justin's baby and shower showing

01:28:29

John asleep. Someone call him someone call in some sushi. Now.

01:28:34

I like that idea. Someone call me in some sushi. I would I don't mind. Yeah, well, you know, you think it's you'd think that somebody had gotten free sushi would be that would have been like Luke Justin.

01:28:46

I'm going to send it to you guys, you know, wouldn't it? I mean, you'd think he'd watch Justin sushi. I'll buy a sushi anytime.

01:28:52

Hey, when I was at your house, you were like, hey man, give me some money because I'm not buying yours. I was like, wait a minute. Yeah, John says

01:28:59

Matt slick is on the phone. He can't get away with it twice.

01:29:08

But you know, you think about it as Christians the question again. Are we going to face a time when we are going to have to and I know that post meal, but you know, you have to ask bud how that's that's all going for him.

01:29:22

But are we going to face a time when we are going to have to be less silent?

01:29:29

What were you like? I said, I said, you'll have to ask bud about that that post mail stuff. How that's going.

01:29:34

You're laughing at Chris on holds comment, which says Andrew is devious in general. It's his it's his default state.

01:29:41

Oh man. I don't know that I'm devious. I mean, can we say Justin I win .com?

01:29:48

I don't know. I mean, I'm serious, but so we have just anything you want to say on the

01:29:57

Equality Act. Yeah, it's a reflection of a nation under judgment.

01:30:03

It's not a matter of if we're going to be judged by God or even when we already are.

01:30:10

We are already under the judgment of God. We are seeing what what

01:30:16

Romans one looks like when men are no longer able to even reason on the most basic of levels people being given over to depraved minds that that's what we're seeing.

01:30:31

So it's not a matter of if or when we already are under God's judgment. So yeah,

01:30:38

I was I was hoping maybe there would maybe Joe Manchin might buck his party, but he obviously didn't.

01:30:47

So yeah, we're and eventually. Yes, I'm not post meal. They're going to get a lot worse and I think we're

01:31:00

I think the church eventually. Yeah, there we will have to we're going to find ourselves in a in a state somewhat akin to Iran or North Korea.

01:31:11

And yeah, we're going to you think about it. Doesn't the scripture say something about there becoming a great falling away first, you know, we haven't seen that type of an apostasy in order for there to be a great falling away.

01:31:23

You can't I mean, there's people trying to say, well, the Roman Catholic Church. Well, wait a minute that you can't equate that with a with the gospel going throughout the whole entire world.

01:31:32

And then after that time, there's a great falling away. You can't put that back into the three four hundreds.

01:31:40

You can't do that. You have to look at it in the context scripture. And what we see is there is going to be persecution.

01:31:49

There's going to be, you know, the body of Christ is going to be put to the test.

01:31:56

And you know, as the scripture makes it clear judgment begins at the house of the Lord. There's there's there's, you know,

01:32:02

Justin Peters ministries. If you go on there, I don't know if you any of you guys have ever heard of this guy, but he does this stuff where he goes on and he talks about all the false

01:32:11

Christians that are that are wolves that are, you know, that are that are vile that are that are deceiving the nations in the name of Christ and he's exposing them and working hard at that.

01:32:24

And and what this is judgment begins at the house of the Lord those that are that are false and that are lying and that are easy and middle of the road.

01:32:32

They are going to be they're going to they're going to run away from Christianity like the plague when true

01:32:39

Christianity starts being persecuted and being brought to purity. You know, the one thing that I have an issue with the postmill theology or discussion here is when somebody says, oh,

01:32:51

I believe in the victory of the gospel. Well, that's a straw man because every Christian believes in that same victory of the gospel.

01:32:56

Every single one of us believes that the gospel wins and we believe in election. We believe in a sovereign

01:33:02

God who is a sovereign electing God and he has he is predestined and foredained everything that he wants done the way he wants it done.

01:33:10

And it's going to happen that way. And part of that process is the purifying of the body of Christ the purifying and sanctifying in the body of Christ in the midst of persecution.

01:33:20

Those who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will what Suffer persecution and I believe that we are coming to a point.

01:33:28

I don't know when it's going to happen, but I believe we are coming to a point where we're going to see mass persecution.

01:33:34

We've seen it around the world, but we've never seen it in America. And I believe we're coming to a point in time when

01:33:40

America is, you know, you got to face it. The Bible doesn't say that all nations are going to come against America and Israel.

01:33:48

It says that all nations will be staged as the enemy of Israel. Okay, we're they're all going to come against Israel.

01:33:55

That means something that means something according to the Bible. It means something we have to be ready for this.

01:34:01

We have to be doctrinally and theologically ready for it. We have to be ready to do what not run and hide but stand upon the gospel of Christ, you know, even if even if the

01:34:11

Equality Act says that we have to put homosexuals in the church as pastors and deacons and elders and everything else.

01:34:19

We stand upon the word of God and just like James Coates and everyone else. We say no, we're not going to stand against God.

01:34:26

We're not going to violate the scripture. And if and I'm telling you if we have to go underground and start sending out

01:34:33

DVD videos and and you know, things like we used to do Andrew. I mean, I remember Andrews has shown me many times.

01:34:39

He's burning all this stuff. He's like, whoa, they don't use DVDs anymore. We're going to start reproducing DVDs for too long because I imagine they're going to be shutting down platforms like crazy that have

01:34:49

Christianity on it. Yeah. All right. So we got another question came in. Obviously you guys aren't alone.

01:34:56

Peel don't want Kenneth Copeland. I wanted to know Naomi Zacharias, but hey, you know, all right.

01:35:02

So here's the question from Chris calculus man. He's the superhero calculus man question in the book of Titus when there are verses that talk about the older men teaching younger men.

01:35:15

Would that apply would would an application of those versus be to youth groups?

01:35:22

So let me read Titus chapter 2. And it says this in Titus chapter 2, but as for you speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine older men are to be temperate dignified sensible sound in faith in love in perseverance older women.

01:35:46

Likewise are to be reverent in their behavior. Not malicious gossips nor enslaved too much wine teaching what is good so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands to love their children to be sensible pure workers at home kind being subject to their own husbands so that the word of God will be will not be dishonored likewise urge the young men to be sensible.

01:36:18

All in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds with purity and doctrine dignified sound and speech, which is beyond reproach so that the opponent will be put to shame having nothing to say about us.

01:36:35

So now that's not the exact verse he was referring to it, but I want to give some of the context that we have for this because this is what he's he instructs for the team.

01:36:47

This is what should be taught. Okay, and then

01:36:52

I think the passage he's actually referring to thought it was chapter 3 where he exhorts the older men to teach the younger men and the younger men older women to teach the younger women.

01:37:12

If you guys know which verse that specifically is I thought it was. Yeah, the older men.

01:37:23

It's tight. It's tight as two. Yeah, it's tight as two. Okay, maybe I didn't read that part.

01:37:29

Well, I mean it is it is teaching here the I thought there was one verse where it was all on one verse but here you end up seeing there's instruction that we have of what is to be taught older men.

01:37:43

This is how they're supposed to be older women. Likewise how they're supposed to be so it speaks of their behaviors. Okay, verse 6.

01:37:50

Likewise. You urge the young men to be sensible first four is right. So you see it's instruction to young men verse 9 where I left off is urging the slaves urge bond servants to be subject to our masters and everything be well pleasing not argumentative to not pilfer do not show good but showing all good faith that so that they will adore the doctrine of our

01:38:14

Savior in every respect. And so the idea that you end up having is that there is a pattern that we see in Titus for older men to be training younger men younger men to be your older women to be training younger women and what you end up seeing in that pattern.

01:38:38

Now the question specifically is can it apply to youth group? Well, we first have to put this in the context the cultural context here and recognize that there was no category of youth or teenagers.

01:38:55

Okay, the and he's he he has a follow -up question here.

01:39:02

Yeah, follow -up question. I have I have my doubts that the Apostles had a concept of youth ministry that is common in church today.

01:39:12

Would it be fair to say that the modern -day youth ministry is an invention from recent times and I would say yes, hold on a minute.

01:39:18

Hold on. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Are you telling me that they didn't have the peanut butter armpit licking contest?

01:39:25

We're going to get Pastor Justin just repent from that.

01:39:31

No, I mean and it's those follow -up questions kind of getting to what I was getting to in the context when you you turn 13, you were a man.

01:39:41

There was no concept of a teenager or youth. You you became a man and you worked and you did what what men do you went to work?

01:39:51

It wasn't this idea that you're great now. Now, look what you did. Chris says now

01:39:57

I'm nauseous. Thanks. Thanks for that. You're welcome. You have to put it in the context and so in one sense,

01:40:08

Chris, the answer would be yes, it would apply to to what we would call youth because it's the older men.

01:40:16

That are pouring into the younger men. Now, who are the older men those that are older than you, right?

01:40:25

I mean, it's it's it's not this idea that you know, there's some who say oh, well the older men are older women are those whose children moved out of the house.

01:40:34

Okay, that doesn't fit as well either because the children didn't move out of the house. No, okay.

01:40:41

So it's not even that but I think there are different degrees of it where yeah, you have different stages of our life.

01:40:48

We have that stage where we're young men and women before we're married then and remember they got married at 13 14 15 years old.

01:40:57

So but you have those new newlyweds in that period as there is then they start having children.

01:41:06

You have the period where you with young kids and then you have the the older, you know dealing with older kids now kids that are adults at 13.

01:41:15

So those are the stages that you'd have and each stage. There's people that are in that stage ahead of you and those would be the older men younger men concept.

01:41:25

That would be how I would see that. Either of you want to weigh in further? We got

01:41:31

Justin. Yeah, it's very clearly a biblical precept that older people in the faith teach the younger people in the faith and I think certainly in Titus 2 when you look at the women, there's definitely kind of a domestic application of that to the older in chronological age women teaching the younger women, you know older women who have been married who have raised a family who know what marriage is about they can teach the younger women to love their husbands and do these things when you're talking about male leadership in the church,

01:42:15

I think chronological age can play a part of that not necessarily because you see like in some of the churches that Paul started planted within a couple of years of the church being planted and Paul moving on you see these churches that are being led by some of the men that were converted have only been converted a couple of three years or so and I say that with some caution because people back then tended to mature spiritually a lot more rapidly than what most of us tend to do nowadays because of I mean there was real persecution being a

01:43:03

Christian cost you something back then far far more than it does today.

01:43:09

So it kind of had a real ability to weed out the wheat from the tares pretty quickly.

01:43:18

So you can't always attach a chronological or a specific time period to mature in faith.

01:43:29

But as far as youth groups, yeah youth groups is a that's a modern construct. And that's something that we kind of worked into our modern church that doesn't have any paradigm foundation in in the

01:43:45

New Testament. I think really where some of the youth group I think dynamic has come in is this concept that we see of this constant segregation within the church.

01:43:56

I actually think where a lot of it comes from is the publishers publishing Sunday school material and it's by age and you end up seeing everyone being kind of defined by an age category and then you see even with adults you have some churches that they have traditional services and modern services and that's to separate the older from the younger in adults and you know,

01:44:22

I just don't see that that division being biblical. We you know, the Titus model is that you're all together and those that are older would teach those that are younger.

01:44:32

So I don't get that whole model working. One thing we did to use the Titus model is we have the way that ties to men's and women's ministry and basically what we did was all the women of every age were to come in and work together.

01:44:55

See, here's my problem with this when you look at Titus the book of Titus here in Titus 2 what you're seeing is the higher church involved in discipleship the entire church every one of them is using their ministerial gifts their their gifts from God to to edify the church to sanctify to exalt out do one another love of good works to teach godliness and holiness of life there there there there, you know inculcating the word of God the teaching the preaching all those things that they're hearing that that's part of their life.

01:45:32

And if you remember, you know in Deuteronomy and in Proverbs This child is coming along with you everywhere.

01:45:38

You're going from from whatever age until 13 like Andrew said, you know, they're coming along with you.

01:45:45

And then when they get to that age, then the young boys they start coming with the with the fathers and the dads and everywhere.

01:45:53

They're going there. They're learning in the teaching and growing with the with the father being this this chief instructor for the men for these young men and And in the body of Christ, it's it's broke down to where what you see here is the older men of every age like Andrew said, so what we would do is we bring in 11 12 13 14 15 17 year old we got teenagers, you know and bring them in and pair them up with some of the the adult males and we would take them and and put them in a teaching responsibility mentoring responsibility with the younger children so that all of them everybody could learn that they were all responsible to exercise the gifts that God gave them in the body of Christ to to help these people come along and come up and to obey

01:46:55

Titus and to bring them up. I think the worst model I've ever heard of because I mean

01:47:00

I hear people I'm a youth pastor. Show me that in the Bible. I'm trying to be mean and say there's no call for youth pastors anywhere, but you know the slick -backed hair the little frohawks and the flip -flops and all that silly stuff that's got to go.

01:47:14

We need sound doctor. We need sound life sound living and I think that this model is much better to do that.

01:47:22

If you do it, right and can I throw something in real quick? One of my frustrations with youth ministry is so very little of it is serious.

01:47:34

I mean most not all not all but most youth ministers. They don't take what they do seriously.

01:47:42

They think they've got to entertain the kids and fun games and all you know, the peanut butter and armpit.

01:47:49

I wish you had been joking about that, but you weren't I've heard those stories kids are kids are capable of more than what we often give them credit for generally speaking and this is true of people in general regardless of their age people will generally rise or fall to the level of expectation that is placed on and if you lower the bar people are all too happy to you know, sink down to that lower bar in kids as well.

01:48:21

But if you raise the bar if you challenge them the kids that actually want to learn they'll go up to that bar don't feel like you've got to make the gospel cool and entertaining and fun teach them scripture at John MacArthur's Church.

01:48:37

I heard this from MacArthur in an interview from many years ago, but but he said on Wednesday nights with their teenagers.

01:48:45

They do an hour -long Bible exposition with them. So, you know, I'm not against having fun.

01:48:52

I did that funny but raise the bar challenge your kids don't dilute it raise the 100 % when

01:49:00

I first became pastor at the Chinese Church. I they had already had set a speaker for the retreat.

01:49:09

So I said well my wife and I will take the kids and we'll work with the kids like eight -year -olds eight to ten -year -olds and I and they said were you going to teach?

01:49:17

I said, I'm going to teach the doctrine of the Trinity and they were like what they can't understand that.

01:49:22

So what I did is we sat for three days teaching them the doctrine of Trinity defining it showing it in scripture on the last day.

01:49:31

This is a great way to you know, make friends and influence people right foot when you're in the church is the new pastor basically for the parents to pick up their kids.

01:49:41

I would ask the parent. Can you define the Trinity and and and give biblical support and when they couldn't do it when they couldn't do what are you holding up the growing in grace book?

01:49:56

Yeah, you need to get that everybody you need to go striving for Eternity and you need to get this book growing in grace.

01:50:02

I've taken my whole church through this and I'm going to tell you Andrea's not trying to give Andrew a big head but this right here will help your children much more than just about anything else is going around.

01:50:14

I think I start going through that with my kids when they were like six or seven but but I made the I so I made the parents have to define the

01:50:21

Trinity and give biblical support and when they couldn't do it. I had the children the eight to ten year olds that they

01:50:28

I was told couldn't understand these doctrines explain it and define it and defend it and then they started to realize.

01:50:36

Yeah, so a couple things before we wrap up a matter of theology great podcast says that there is an article called critique of the modern youth ministry and he points out

01:50:49

I guess that the youth group can be traced back to the public school system. So I want to get to one last question.

01:50:55

So we got people that really didn't want obviously people felt that they would give a break there to Mr.

01:51:04

Holds and not make him have to listen to someone's asked for the growing in grace.

01:51:13

You can get the book growing at grace at striving for attorney .org. It's in our store so you can get that there.

01:51:20

So Kevin asks a question here and this one's going to take a little bit for me to get into and I think

01:51:27

I think my position is going to be the same as Justin and Justin. The question is could you explain

01:51:34

James 5 14 and 15 should we literally be anointing people?

01:51:40

We literally be anointing people with oil when we practice this. So let me read the passages and again, we want context on this sort of verse 12.

01:51:51

But above all my brethren do not swear either by heaven or by earth with with any oath, but you but your yes is to be.

01:52:01

Yes, you're no. No, so that you may not fall under judgment is anyone among you suffering then then he must pray is anyone cheerful then he must sing praises is anyone among you sick then that he must call for the elders of the church and they will pray for him anointing him with oil in the name of the

01:52:28

Lord and the prayer of and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick and the

01:52:37

Lord will raise him up and if he is committed if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him therefore confessed your sins one to another and pray for one another so that you may be healed the the effect of prayer of a righteous man availeth much

01:52:55

Elijah was a man with a nature like ours and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain and it did not rain on earth for three years and six months and he prayed that again and the sky poured rain on the earth and produced fruit.

01:53:12

So that's the context that we have of this notice. The contact is about praying.

01:53:18

It's about prayer. Now the word sick is the first thing we have to address the translators translate this as sick.

01:53:28

This is something that more often would be translated as weakness.

01:53:36

And so this is not a sickness as much as it is a weakness that they're weak somehow.

01:53:45

So the first thing that we have to do is we look at the context is notice that it's about prayer.

01:53:52

Why would someone if they're sick need to call the elders to pray? What is the type of sickness?

01:53:58

I believe what this is actually speaking of is a weakness a spiritual weakness. Remember that James is written to people who are being persecuted people who had scattered from their homeland that in Jerusalem, they had to leave the area because of persecution.

01:54:17

Now many would say that as we look at this that this is a weakness of a spiritual nature not a sickness like, you know,

01:54:27

I have cancer or something which is how many people use this they say. Oh, if you're if you have a real sickness you go to the elders for them to pray for you.

01:54:35

Is there something special about the elders prayer that anyone else's prayer wouldn't help God to hear if there's a sickness that the reality of this is more the fact that this is someone who is suffering.

01:54:50

We have that in verse 13 verse 13. So the idea that I believe this is is someone who is so spiritually weak through trials through temptations through testings.

01:55:05

They've been persecuted that to a point where they they can't even pray on their own. I don't know if any of you have experienced this.

01:55:12

I have I've experienced at times where I've just been so distraught over things in ministry that I just could not even utter prayer.

01:55:22

I remember a one specific time where I I used to I do a lot of different things to do discipling one church that I was at what

01:55:29

I did to to form a discipling relationships with people is the fact that I had

01:55:35

I would get together just me and one other guy and we'd we'd set because it was just two or three people.

01:55:43

We could find an hour in a week just to get together and pray together. And what I would do is I would

01:55:48

I'd meet like for in this example. I'd meet with Pastor Justin. We meet for six months just praying together. Then we'd add

01:55:54

Justin Peters into that mix. Now three of us meet for four six months and then

01:55:59

I would branch out and Justin and Justin would continue praying. I would find another person and then we just kept doing that until we got the whole church praying together, but there was a time

01:56:09

I remember with one fellow named James and I was just going through some things and I literally said to him,

01:56:14

I just can't pray. I could not utter the words. I was just in a spiritual depression.

01:56:21

And so what ended up happening is he prayed for me and in his praying for me. It strengthened me to where I could pray again.

01:56:29

That is what I think is being discussed here. It's the idea that someone is so spiritually weak that you go to the elders.

01:56:36

Why the elders? Because the elders should be spiritually more mature. Right? They should be able to so you could go to any more mature person, but so they go to the elders.

01:56:48

So what is the oil? Well with the persecution sometimes comes things like beatings.

01:56:54

Oil was used as a medicinal thing. It had a medicinal purpose to rub it into wounds and things.

01:57:01

So I think the idea of the oil is being rubbed into wounds. It is is more medicinal and not this spiritual thing where people are, you know, putting oil on the head and somehow they're going to do that or you know, people that are, you know,

01:57:18

Matt Slick has shared this, you know on the show sometimes where he would he put oil on his doors and pray for his house when he moved in.

01:57:28

I don't think that's what it's talking about. I think it is you medicinal purpose. So I'll open that up to Justin and Justin.

01:57:35

I think I think Justin Peters. I think you you agree. I think that's the same position you have.

01:57:40

I believe but I'm not sure it is and the turn there in 514 is anyone among you sick in the

01:57:49

Greek that that's asked the new O and asked the new O could refer to a physical illness that is a legitimate rendering of it.

01:57:59

However, it's just as legitimate to say that it refers to a spiritual weakness and I think the context determines where you come down on that.

01:58:09

I agree with Andrew. I think the context is it clearly argues for that a spiritual weakness.

01:58:15

In fact, and if you look in verse 15, it says in the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick or weak asked the new

01:58:27

O and the Lord will raise him up and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.

01:58:34

And so I think that that added little context there of sins and forgiveness of sins that argues for a spiritual weakness as opposed to a bodily illness.

01:58:43

So I'm yeah, I agree with Andrew and and I mean an argument can be made both ways, but I think the stronger the weight of it falls on the spiritual weakness and and also

01:58:56

I'd say this too. It would be very it'd be kind of a random out of the out of a almost out of place in a sense because there's nothing else in the book of James talking about a physical illness or bodily illness.

01:59:11

It's the whole context here argues more strongly for a spiritual weakness.

01:59:17

Well here is is about prayer as you look through this, right? It's the it's it's mostly about the prayer.

01:59:25

Well, and if you think about it, these guys are both wrong because I'll tell you if you look at this all

01:59:31

I would have to do remove him. Now, there we go. That's did he say we were wrong? He couldn't have meant that.

01:59:42

But think about this. If Justin had enough faith, we could throw some oil on him and he would be, you know,

01:59:48

I mean, look Benny's right. We could just take care of him right now. No, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

01:59:54

Wait a minute. Hold on. Hold on. I remember I remember a time when

02:00:00

Justin was we were coming back from the Philippines and and Justin lost his strength in his in his arm and and I remember we're sitting on the plane and he was really concerned about it and I just I put my hand on his shoulder and I prayed and a couple of months later.

02:00:20

He got all the strength back. So I'm just saying. So I agree.

02:00:26

He wants to say something on that. Have you got anything to add on that?

02:00:31

Because I do I want to throw in just a minute on this. Well, just real quick is what Andrew said. Yeah, I was in the

02:00:37

Philippines. I lost all the the ability in my arm to push down. I could

02:00:43

I could do this but I couldn't do this and long story short. I when I got back to the state.

02:00:49

Well, they did an MRI on me in the Philippines and showed two badly old discs between my

02:00:56

C3 C4 and C5 and C6. I had two of them and came back to the

02:01:02

United States went to see my surgeon and I was scheduled for surgery.

02:01:08

In fact, I remember it was scheduled for surgery August the 8th 2019. Was that 19 or 18?

02:01:15

2019. And then just two weeks before surgery inexplicably one morning.

02:01:24

I was just sitting at the table talking to Kathy and and I was had my arm laying on the table and all of a sudden

02:01:29

I was kind of like I can push down with my arm and it's like all the all the strength was just back instantly.

02:01:39

I mean, I wasn't even praying about it or thinking about it for that matter just came back and so I went back to see my doctor and he did some strength test on me.

02:01:48

He just said, you know, like push against my arm. And so I did it and I was I had all my strength. He said well, as long as you don't have any symptoms, we're not going to do surgery.

02:01:58

I was like cool. So I don't know nothing on me this thing.

02:02:04

I could claim I healed Justin Peters and and and he grew two inches man.

02:02:16

But that's that's very simple. That's because I don't want you chasing after me see all the abuse.

02:02:22

I've given you you would chase me down and beat him up. Yeah. I mean, you already chased me through the computer.

02:02:30

My son asked me to sit this question about about James 514 and and I came to the same conclusion as we studied on to it.

02:02:40

Look, I don't I mean if if I'm praying over someone and I want to, you know, do the anointing with anointing with oil whatnot.

02:02:48

It's I think there's nothing that would that would say that's blasphemy or anything like that.

02:02:54

You know, if your pastor does that it's just they're doing as an act, you know in faith or they're praying over that's fine.

02:03:01

But the context here with the oil is and I hate using this

02:03:06

This comment the essential oils look guys, they really good for making your laundry smell good, but don't dump it on people because you think it's all a hill all because you know, unless it's purified and whatnot, you can be introducing some bad stuff, but the oils here were medicinal and you know, you got people getting beat up getting bruised, you know the thing about Paul, you know, he was stoned how many times and and and left for dead how many times and bloody and bruised and so they you know, they would anoint them with oil.

02:03:40

They would put oil on them. And yes, they would pray for them. They pray over him because they're trusting the great physician, you know, the the anointing with oil that has no magical powers, you know chanting or whatever else you're doing has no magical powers.

02:03:57

You're pleading to Christ. You're pleading to the great physician to heal and you're trusting that if he doesn't heal, you know,

02:04:06

Justin, I'm gonna put you on here. Put it back on here. If if if God doesn't heal you the moment that we ask and and make you whole and make you perfectly upright and everything perfect, you know for a fact that he will answer that prayer that you've asked for for for hundreds of times.

02:04:27

He's going to answer in his time when you have your glorified body and and so the answer is yes, but it may not be at the moment.

02:04:36

You want it to be. Yeah, all we're doing is praying and saying Lord thy will be done thy kingdom come whatever, you know, whatever the outcome is here

02:04:47

Lord just we ask you to hear this heal this brother or sister if it be your will and we will do whatever you say and we will carry on with our lives until you say that we get our glorified body and that's that's as far as you can go with that context.

02:05:01

Absolutely. My my healing is is just as certain as my salvation as my glorification.

02:05:09

I it's it's it's it's mine. It's good as mine. It's just not yet realized kind of like a glorified body.

02:05:17

We're all promised a glorified body. Why because it's provided for in the atonement, but I don't see anybody walking around with their glorified bodies yet.

02:05:26

Why not? It's promised in the atonement, but it's not promised to be realized here.

02:05:32

So the the belief that we should have basically heaven on earth like what Bethel teaches

02:05:38

Bill Johnson all that garbage. It's an it's an many other things, but it's an over realized eschatology and over the belief that everything that in that exist in heaven.

02:05:48

We should have here on Earth. Yeah, that's an over realized eschatology and it's very serious error.

02:05:54

I'm just glad that by the time you do get that healing it will also come with the glorified body so that you don't chase me around to get me back for the many things

02:06:03

I've done to deserve if you'll look on here. I know we're about to stop but here if you'll look on here talking about if anyone has committed sin that they'll be forgiven.

02:06:12

We're just glad that Andrew is going to be forgiven for all that picking. He's done. Yeah. Yeah, who is it?

02:06:18

Linda, I think said Andrew are you usurping the power of God? No, because actually

02:06:25

Justin and I talked about this. I don't think the healing he had was was something it wasn't a miracle wasn't supernatural.

02:06:37

And so it was something that can't be explained. Let me say this because I don't want people to get the wrong idea and people are going to go on YouTube or something say, oh,

02:06:47

Justin believes it. Okay. I do believe God heals today. What happened to me? I don't know what that was.

02:06:54

It is possible. See, I did not have a second MRI. I have the only one

02:07:00

I've had was that one I had in the Philippines. I did not have one here. It's very possible that one of those bulging discs just kind of scooted back into place, you know, and it may be that who knows before I go to bed tonight, it may scoot back out and I'm being the same pickle that I was in two years ago in the

02:07:19

Philippines. Whatever it was, I am thankful for a kind providence of God.

02:07:28

I'm not claiming that it was a miracle. I'm not saying that. So don't. It is a kind providence of God for which

02:07:35

I am very grateful that I didn't have to have surgery. So atomicapologeticsjohn says, wait, we're in Anthony time.

02:07:45

Well, of course we are because there he is. He only comes in at the two -hour mark just to say hello.

02:07:52

How are things in Denver, sir? Yeah, they're going well out here. So teaching, teaching is going well.

02:07:58

Got some new apologists that are budding in training. So it's going well. Good.

02:08:04

Why are you eating your microphone? Yeah, I was just making sure it's close enough to me. No, you're fine. So, you know,

02:08:10

Anthony, let me just ask you, you're out in Denver. You're traveling. Did you bring a pillow with you? Did I bring a pillow with me?

02:08:19

You know, I think I think what we Anthony needs to do is

02:08:24

Anthony because you know, he's been too busy traveling and doesn't know but Anthony you you should go out to my pillow and use the promo code

02:08:35

SFE to get the premium queen -size my pillow for less than $30 $40 off of its regular price and and then you could travel with your pillow like I do that you make fun of me for doing but then you'll have one of your own or you can call 1 -800 -873 -0176

02:08:57

That's 800 -873 -0176 and use promo code

02:09:03

SFE for striving for eternity and get deep discounts on all their products, which in Anthony's case, he probably needs to get one of those robes or you know, maybe maybe he can get some pajamas, you know, he could get that there too.

02:09:16

They they sell that there. So, you know, I have my pillows at home already, but I heard that they have really nice sheets.

02:09:21

They just came out with yes, they do. I might have to get those I'm planning to get a couple of the

02:09:27

Giza sheets and they have they have a they now have a topper for your pillow.

02:09:33

So or for your bed, so, you know and in doing so Anthony, not only will you be getting great sheets, but you'd also be supporting striving for eternity.

02:09:45

So see it's a double. It's double blessing there. That's a double win. That's right. portion of anointing a double portion of something something says

02:09:55

Justin that those words don't mean what I think those me not so much.

02:10:02

So so someone let's see Bill is saying I'll buy a book Andrew if you send me a pillow with it.

02:10:10

Lol $6. I know for an order for $36 is killing me here.

02:10:15

So he wants me to exchange a pillow for a book, I guess. So and so some

02:10:24

Joshua says Anthony is gone one episode in the program turns into an infomercial.

02:10:30

That's why I came back on. I wanted to see you guys for that. Yeah, so Joanne says they do buy buy one get one free on the sheet.

02:10:41

So if that's a but I do know that the the sale that they gave for us is to told us that if you want to get on my pillow, it is less than $30 per pillow.

02:10:50

If you want to get the the king size the king pillow the king size pillow that is less than $35.

02:10:56

So you're saving $40 on each on each pillow that is something they've they've done they're doing and you'd be helping to support striving for Eternity at the same time.

02:11:06

Justin has up there. If you want to give us a review, we like to hear what you think about the show.

02:11:13

So if you send reviews, you could just go to love the podcast .com slash apologetics live.

02:11:19

That's love the podcast .com slash apologetics live Anthony anything you have for us before we tune out.

02:11:27

No, you know, I know there's been a few detractors from our show on Sunday night. So I might have to address some of that stuff next week.

02:11:35

Yeah, we're on I was next week. We have Chris Tramita who is going to be coming on and talking about biblical counseling and I do know that there was there were some things from that.

02:11:48

We did a special I didn't release it yet as podcast from and I got to do that to put that as a bonus episode on the podcast, but I know that that did get some reaction from some folks.

02:12:01

And you know, I've sent you a couple of emails actually someone that was asked tonight on the expanse.

02:12:09

So if you got about three emails one on that and you have a couple on the you know, you have one on on basically

02:12:18

I was thinking of going through that but you weren't here. I want to go through that one email. I sent you one.

02:12:26

It was just very folks. I'll put this way. We'll probably do that in two weeks. I'll go through that email that we received for Anthony and it's just one of those emails where someone is really it's a clear example of projection.

02:12:41

He's saying all these things about Anthony and you're realizing it all applies to him.

02:12:46

Yeah, kind of funny. I wasted two minutes of my life reading.

02:12:52

I don't know. What is it eight paragraphs nine paragraphs of stuff long complaining about all kinds of stuff but never actually saying what was wrong in what

02:13:00

I said not a single thing. Yeah, that's what I was going to point out. So we'll probably do that in two weeks.

02:13:07

We'll address that letter and some other things dealing with this that special show. That was that was pretty pretty funny.

02:13:16

If Chris is a ACBC counselor and he is yes, he is not only is he an

02:13:22

ACBC counselor, but he's also a trainer of new ACBC counselor. So he ran the training program in the

02:13:28

Cleveland area. Very very short guy. Good friend of mine comes to our church. It's been a member of our church for several years now.

02:13:37

Make sure to talk about the Israel trip. Well, the Israel trips almost full.

02:13:43

So there are only three spots left for the Israel trip to get in after that.

02:13:48

You're on the waiting list. We'll probably have some people drop out. They usually they usually do so getting on the waiting list just means be prepared and you know, you'd have to have all the money ready at that time.

02:14:01

I think that that ends up getting decided. I think in June or July we're going to be meeting this week actually.

02:14:08

It looks like I think depending on what Anthony's receptionist says that's what we're waiting on to hear his his receptionist, but I think he looks like he's frozen there, but the we're going to get together

02:14:20

Justin myself David Cunningham Anthony to go through the different devotions who's going to be doing which devotions at which spots we got.

02:14:29

I think there's like 20 or 30 different devotionals Pastor Justin's going to be doing one Pastor Casey will be doing one.

02:14:36

So we're going to be having a time with this is 13 days and you could go to Israel tour 2021 .com

02:14:47

Israel tour 2021 .com to get all the details. Your spot is only reserved if you actually pay the $500 you get that all but $125 back if you have to pull out if they cancel something crazy goes on we get another stream of covid or politicians just have to try and find some other way to control people then if they cancel we get everything back.

02:15:12

So someone is actually asking Andrew. Hey Andrew, have you been it's been a while so people have have been concerned about my health and it is doing better.

02:15:24

My my blood pressure is now under control due to exercise and dieting.

02:15:30

I've met with my doctor this week on Wednesday yesterday. He was very impressed with the numbers that I was able to get them down to with mostly just dieting and exercise.

02:15:42

I'm off all medications and so he doesn't see a need for me to go back on medication unless it it climbs back up.

02:15:50

So with that, I guess we're going to tune out for tonight and we are we're excited to see you next week's show.

02:16:00

It's going to be good to to get to talk to Chris Krameda and talk biblical counseling the show after that.

02:16:08

I think we're going to we'll have to bring in Brian again and and talk about the past the sermon or the talk teaching from his his sermon his pastor sermon.

02:16:20

So we'll probably go through some of the do some get some stuff from the mailbag.

02:16:26

That'll be fun. So that is all that we have tonight. Just remember to strive to make today an eternal day for the glory of God and we'll see you next.