WWUTT 1910 Q&A Pastors in Suits, Women in Head Coverings, Satan’s Real Name

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Should pastors wear a suit and tie? Should women wear head coverings in church?

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And is Satan's real name really Lucifer? The answers to these questions and others when we

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Understand the Text. This is

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When we Understand the Text, a daily Bible commentary to help encourage your time in God's Word, so we may be conformed to the image of Christ.

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Tell all your friends about our ministry at www .utt .com. Here once again is

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Pastor Gabe. Thank you Becky. You're welcome. Psalm 40 verses 1 -3

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I hoped earnestly for Yahweh, and He inclined to me and heard my cry for help.

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He brought me up out of the pit of destruction, out of the miry clay, and He set my feet upon a high rock.

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He established my steps. He put a new song in my mouth, a song of praise to our

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God. Many will see and fear and trust in Yahweh.

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That's from the Legacy Standard Bible. That's awesome. It's a good translation. You get the name of Yahweh in there.

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Yeah. This is When we Understand the Text and the Friday edition. When we take questions from the listeners, you can submit those questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

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How about something a little light, lighthearted to start things off here? Sounds awesome.

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Okay. So this comes from Steven in Illinois and he says, Hey, Pastor Gabe, thank you for your podcast.

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Great to hear you back on. My family will be going to G3 this year. Yay. I've met you before at G3.

01:47

You were wearing a tie. My wife and I said on the way back to our hotel, the only people at G3 wearing a tie were the speakers and Gabe Hughes.

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Huh. Interesting. In your avatar on Twitter, you're wearing a tie. In most of your videos, you appear to be wearing at least a suit jacket.

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So my question for you is, are you ever not wearing a suit? I do like a sharp -dressed man.

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And that's why I do it, folks. There's your answer right there. Thanks again for your ministry, he says.

02:24

Yeah. You know, whenever I show up on Saturday to Lowe's, because I'm doing my home improvement stuff on Saturday, everybody that I run into who knows me in the community double takes like,

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Whoa, you're in jeans. You're in civvies. Civvies.

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Civilian clothes. That's right. You're in a ball cap. Didn't even know you had a hat.

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This is out of your element. Yeah, totally. And most of the week I wear something, I mean, it could be like jeans and a suit jacket or something like that.

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But yeah, I started doing this, I don't remember when it was, 2015. If you watch some earlier sermons of mine, they're still on YouTube in different places.

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They're not on either one of my channels. But when I was in about 2013, 2014,

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I was still preaching with no pulpit, holding the Bible in my hand. Sometimes I was wearing a suit jacket, but I had a t -shirt on underneath or a polo or something.

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I wasn't really all that dressed up. I was a little more than totally casual.

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I watched a sermon recently with a guy who was in a t -shirt and cargo pants, and he preached that way.

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When he first started talking, I was like, Okay, this must be the guy that they have that does the call to worship, the welcoming announcements, bring everybody in, look how hipster

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I am. Look at you, guy. Yeah, right. To kind of make everybody feel welcome. Oh, he's just like me.

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No, that was the pastor, and he even preached that way. Okay. It was kind of bizarre. Anyway, it was a decent sermon though, all things considered.

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Well, that's good. It wasn't like one of those - Praise the Lord on that one. Yeah. He was definitely dressed like a hipster, but the sermon was pretty solid.

04:08

Good. Anyway, so what was I saying? I started wearing a suit and preaching behind the pulpit at the very start of 2015.

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In my church at the time, this was still the church in Kansas that I was pastoring, there were a few people that really didn't like it.

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Nope. They got really upset. All of a sudden, Gabe thinks he's speaking authoritatively because he's wearing a suit and he's standing behind the pulpit.

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Yeah. It was weird. It was. It was the flip that, I mean, you were still saying the same stuff.

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Same things. Still preaching the same way, and yet the way you came across apparently was just completely changed.

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I thought my delivery was still exactly the same. I would say so. Yeah. Except, I mean, the fact that you didn't walk around as much.

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Right. I wasn't acting - Up front. Yeah. It's not really a stage. What's it called? The chancel.

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Yeah, that. I'm sure there's another name for it, too, but I know that's one of the official names, a chancel.

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Yeah. Not a stage. Platform. Platform. You know, something like that. I went from looking like a youth leader or a motivational speaker walking around, which was always preaching from the

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Bible, I was holding it right there in my hand, but I went back to, I'm going to put my suit on and I'm going to stand behind the pulpit.

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Right. We've talked about this before. It was actually prompted by Todd Friel on Wretched.

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Yeah. Because I watched an episode of his where he did a segment on this and he's just looking at the camera.

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It felt like he was talking to me. He goes, you've got a pulpit, but you don't ever use it. Why not?

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And I'm just sitting there going, hmm, I don't know, why don't we use the pulpit? And then he goes into like the history of pulpits, kind of gives a little quick history lesson for about four or five minutes or something.

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And then he goes, you have a suit, but you don't wear a suit and tie when you preach.

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Why not? And then again, I'm going, hmm, that's a good question. I do own a suit. When do

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I ever wear that suit? So I just tried it and we were already going through kind of a thing at the time.

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You and I had talked about this, I had shared it with some other men at the church who were kind of my idea guys, giving me some pushback on some things.

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And it just felt to me like things I was preaching were not getting through. Everybody's nodding their heads, but when you see them in town the rest of the week or you see the way they act on social media, it's contrary to everything that we just talked about on Sunday.

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And so what is it about these sermons that everybody nods, they love it, they're hugely complimentary of everything, but then they don't live by it.

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And I wasn't content with that. The sermon has got to be getting in there. Your life has to be conformed to what is being preached and what you're reading in the text.

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So how do I get the word through their ears and down into their heart?

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And apparently putting on a suit and standing behind a pulpit was one of the ways. Because suddenly they started hearing it and they realized they didn't like it.

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And one of the criticisms that I got was that I changed my doctrine. Yeah.

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Yeah. They quit nodding during service. Yeah. And got angry. They did. And they confronted me after.

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And there was a woman that came up to me afterward and said, you've changed your doctrine. Why did you do that?

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Yeah. I'm like, what are you talking about? Change my doctrine. I put on a suit and stood behind a pulpit.

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But apparently doing that was making people actually listen to it instead of feeling the warm fuzzies because they thought they were watching a motivational speaker up there.

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Yeah, that's true. Everybody has their own filter. And that would be something that I would filter through, you know, like, what is the circumstance that I'm in?

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How am I going to receive this? Is this pleasant for me? Or is this, you know, supposed to be something that I'm supposed to be convicted by?

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Yeah. Anyway, it was a strange chapter. I didn't mean to spend that much time on it.

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I just thought it was funny that he's asking me if I'm ever not wearing a suit. Well, the answer is yes.

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On his work days at like honeydew days, I guess. Yeah, right. Workday is not that accurate.

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Well, some of it too is that, you know, I could get called to the hospital at any time and it's good to look official, you know, a little more than casual anyway.

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Whenever I go into a hospital and I'm able to say in case I forgot my pass, because I do have a chaplain's pass, but just in case

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I forget something like that and I'm able to say, hey, I'm so -and -so's pastor, actually look like a pastor,

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I don't look like I just crawled out from fixing my sink, you know? So that was another reason why

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I started doing it. And when I was pastor in Kansas, the church that I was at there, the hospital would call me on a fairly -

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Yeah, it's pretty regular. Yeah, regular basis. Yeah. Once a week maybe. Even for people not in our congregation.

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Well, yeah, that's what I mean. I would get called to go see somebody from my own church, certainly, but sometimes the hospital would call me and say, hey, we have somebody here.

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Is there somebody who can come pray? Right. Because they don't have a chaplain or a pastor or something like that.

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So yeah, it just kind of became a regular thing. I wanted to look more official if I have to go do official business in town.

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I was also a police chaplain, so I could get called by the police to come help them with something, you know, scene of an accident or something like that.

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Yeah. Anyway, so all that to say that's just an experience thing.

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That's not me going, hey, if you want to be a good pastor, you got to put a suit on and stand behind a pulpit. Right. I'm not saying it.

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Maybe you need to consider that. Maybe you'll consider it the same way I did when I heard Todd Friel talking to me through my computer monitor.

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Yeah. Excuse me. We've all been fighting coughs in our house.

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You're doing well right now. You're not coughing. No. I mean, I was a little earlier, but I'm doing better.

10:32

On the subject of G3, we're going there. We are. We're going to be at G3 this coming

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September. Sovereignty of God is the theme. And there's, you know, whispers, murmurings that this thing could sell out by May or June.

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So don't delay. Don't wait too long. Yeah. If you're planning on going and being there for the great speakers that they're going to have.

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And of course, the awesome booths, because when we understand the text is going to have a booth.

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Of course. Yes. Yay. Praise the Lord for that one. So if you're planning on going, be sure to check out the information sooner rather than later.

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Go to g3min .org. And don't do the mistake of forgetting to book your hotel too.

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Yeah. Oh, yeah. I better do that. Yeah. Yeah. Uh -huh. That's what we usually do. And then we're like, oh.

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So we're going. We might need to schedule a place to sleep. Yep. Let's get on that.

11:39

Speaking of G3, the Biblical workshops, I've never... Not a Biblical workshop.

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Sorry. It is a Biblical workshop, but it's a Biblical worship workshop. Oh, cool.

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This is not the same thing as the expository workshops that we do. Okay. Like which Tom is always leading.

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I'm there at most of them, but not all of them. This one, the worship workshops,

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I have not yet had the chance to attend. Okay. Shame on me. But this one is coming to Providence Baptist Church in Junction City, Kansas.

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What? Yes. Oh, that's awesome. Which happens to be the church that I came from. Yeah. That was the church

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I pastored for 10 years. Now, I say that, and those of you who've been longtime listeners of the show, you're going, no, you weren't.

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You were pastor of First Southern Baptist Church in Junction City. It's now Providence Baptist Church.

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Yes. They have left the Southern Baptist Convention, and because they've done that, they can't call themselves

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First Southern Baptist Church anymore. Right. That might cause a hiccup or two.

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So it's Providence Baptist Church. I'm very proud of you guys, by the way. Well done making the decision to leave the

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SBC, and you picked a great church name too. Yeah. That's awesome. So on my resume, my experience sheets,

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I can change all of that to, I was the pastor of Providence Baptist Church in Junction City.

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Rather than FSBCJC. Right. That cacophony of letters that abbreviated our church.

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Now the speakers there include Scott Annual, Laramie Minga, Ryan Sickinger, who's the

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Passover. I called him the Passover. Where did that come from?

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The pastor who took over after me. Well, there you go. Those are the words all conjumbled together.

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Right. I just put it all together, like FSBCJC. He's the Passover. And then Matt Sykes as well.

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So those are some of the guest speakers that are going to be there. The Biblical Worship Workshops, oh, by the way, as of last night, there's only nine slots left.

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Okay. Nine reservations left for this workshop that's going to be in Junction City, Kansas. If you're in the

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Kansas area, Nebraska, Western Missouri, Northern Oklahoma, easier for you to get there if you're in those locations.

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There's only nine spots left. So you want to go to g3men .org and register. Same place.

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Go to the same website to register for this particular workshop. It's an opportunity to receive large group instruction.

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There's small group work, model services, teaching you how to organize and put together a good, solid

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Christ -honoring worship service. Awesome. That's kind of the focus of the worship workshops.

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I think they target worship leaders more than anything else, but you don't have to be a worship leader to attend one of these workshops.

14:39

Okay. Very cool. Yeah. And when is that? That is...

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Oh, yeah. The dates would be important. May 23rd to 24. Awesome. So next month? May 23rd to 24.

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Yep. Just a little more than a month away. We'll be in Kansas, too, next month. Yeah.

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It'll be before this workshop. Looking forward to the trip. Yes. We might give some...

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Always to see family. Might give some details, further details on that a little bit later on. But we're going to be heading back up to Kansas soon, too.

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Lord willing. That's right. Continuing on with our emails here. Hello, Pastor Gabe.

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My name is Matt, and I hope this finds you doing well. Recently, my wife and I have been watching with our two -year -old daughter an animated

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Bible lesson series called Pheo. There was an episode entitled, New Birth, and it reminded me of your recent critique of the

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Chosen. I didn't really have a question, but I just wanted to point out that Pheo had an excellent account of the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus.

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It was far better than the Chosen's version. It was because Pheo simply stuck to what the biblical text said and didn't add or subtract from scripture.

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It's amazing how a simple little cartoon can be a thousand times better than a major television production.

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If you see this email, thank you for reading it. I've been listening to What for years, and I appreciate your ministry very much.

16:05

Aw. Now, I've heard of this. I've heard of Pheo. I have not had the chance to watch it yet. I pulled it up online.

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The website is pheopresents .com. If anybody else wants to check it out, I'm really giving a plug for it here, not doing any further research on it, which is not like me, but I was just kind of curious, so I pulled it up.

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I clicked on About Us. That's the page that I got up here. They want to create good biblical content, it looks like, even stuff that could be used for Sunday school lessons,

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Christian school curriculum, missions, evangelism, and homeschooling. Oh, that's awesome. So worth checking out.

16:44

I like the animation style. It looks kind of Disney -ish, kind of Adventures in Odyssey, too.

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Yeah, that's what I was thinking, from my angle, anyway. Okay, yeah, what you're seeing on my screen here.

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If you've ever watched any of the Adventures in Odyssey cartoons, that does kind of have that feel or that artistic style to it.

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So check out pheopresents .com. And thank you for your email, Matt. I'll follow up on that a little bit later on and look into them more myself.

17:12

This one's still following along with the chosen theme, I think. But this email is from Scott, and he sent me a picture of the

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DVD of the Matthew film. And he said, hey, have you seen the Matthew film? What did you think about it?

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I have not seen it, but I've heard about it. I think it's over three hours long, three and a half hours, if memory serves.

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And it's the entire Gospel of Matthew, word for word, dramatized.

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Okay. And I think I saw Todd Friel even play a clip from it once. It was when

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Jesus was giving the seven woes to the Pharisees. It was pretty good, good delivery. But all of the dialogue, everything in the movie is exactly from the

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Gospel of Matthew. Oh, interesting. Unlike the chosen, where you remember the clip that we played a couple of months ago, the creator said 95 % of the show isn't even in the

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Bible. Yeah, that was interesting. And then the parts that are in the Bible are really messed up.

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But they wanted to keep it biblical. Right, sure. Biblical, with quotes around it, yes.

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But yeah, the Matthew film, so I've heard about that. I haven't watched it. Now, as I shared in the critiques that I've done of the chosen, when

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I did the interview with Joel Webben on Right Response Ministries, we had talked about,

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I don't like endorsing Jesus films because it's just not—I am uncomfortable with the whole concept of trying to portray

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Jesus and presenting this visual of Jesus on a screen that gets stuck with people.

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And whenever they read the Gospels, what they visualize is the version of Jesus in a cinematic production that they liked the most.

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Yeah. For a lot of people, that's gonna be the Jonathan Rumi Jesus. That's what people are gonna be picturing whenever they read the

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Gospels. And he's not anything like what Jesus says in the Gospels. No. Even when the words somewhat match up with what you read in the

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Gospel accounts, he's still not doing an accurate presentation of Jesus. And so, yeah, for that reason,

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I try to stay away from any endorsements of any film. So, I'm not gonna say watch the Matthew film, but just to let you know, it's out there.

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It's a word -for -word account of the Gospel of Matthew, which would certainly make it more accurate.

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Right. That's true. Now, you can still get things wrong with that. Even though you're doing a word -for -word thing, there's still some ways to mess that up.

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Yeah. Delivery. Delivery, inflection, downplaying one thing.

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Body language. Yeah. Body language, stuff like that. I mean, you could interpret it wrong in the way that you're reading a line.

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For example, what is it? 1 Corinthians 13? Yes. The love chapter.

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Yeah. So, everybody looks at that as, oh, love. Yeah. They read it with this sentimentality.

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Yeah. Because they always take it out of. They only read that section. But if you read around it, he's scolding that.

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Yeah. Love is patient. Love is kind. So. It's more like.

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It's an example. Yeah. Exactly. Corinthians. Love is patient.

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Yes. Like, I'm being really patient with you right now. I might be gritting my teeth a little too much.

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Yes. Yeah. Paul was definitely loving in that letter, even in the sarcastic parts.

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He was still lovingly appealing to the Corinthians with that letter. But anyway, thank you for your question on that,

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Scott. I might try to check that out sometime, but I haven't seen it yet. The Matthew film. Yeah. I think it came out in 2016 or something like that.

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It's not very old. I was just thinking the opposite of, wow, it's been out that long and I haven't heard about it.

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This is from Nathan. Hey, Pastor Gabe. In your study in Isaiah, this was episode 1904.

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You talked about how Isaiah 1412 is not exactly about Satan.

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It's about the King of Babylon. But you also said it's not wrong to make the connection to Satan.

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But you didn't say how. How can Isaiah 1412 be about Satan if it's not about Satan?

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Thank you for helping me relieve my confusion. All right. Well, let's come back to it.

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This is a very famous passage that often gets tied to Satan, just like I talked about this past Thursday, because it's

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Isaiah 1412, where in the King James Bible, it says, How you have fallen from heaven,

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O Lucifer, son of the morning. And so because of that, because of that rendering of that verse, that translation of the verse, that's led a lot of people to believe that Satan's real name.

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Is Lucifer. Is Lucifer. Right. That really comes from the Latin Vulgate, because when the

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Bible was translated, when the Old Testament was translated into Latin, the word Lucifer appears there.

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When it started getting translated into English, they left that word Lucifer as a proper noun, as though someone named

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Lucifer was being addressed. Okay. And so that became when it talks about you've fallen from heaven,

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O Lucifer. Oh, well, that's got to be talking about the devil. Right. So that's where this whole idea of Satan being called

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Lucifer came from. Makes sense. Yeah. But in the Latin Vulgate, there are places where even

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Jesus is called Lucifer. Okay. Because in Revelation. How did they not catch that?

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That's how men's get started. All right. Yeah. You're just not paying attention. Fair enough.

23:08

Lucifer, capital L, that might be Satan's name. However, that developed, you know.

23:13

Yeah. But they miss the fact that Jesus is... Sure, you might want to know. Yeah. Jesus is also referred to as Lucifer.

23:20

It could be that in the Vulgate, maybe it's not given like the proper noun sense. Okay. So it's not attributed to him as a name.

23:27

Sure. But since it's the Latin word for morning star, and also the planet Venus, by the way.

23:34

Venus in Latin is Lucifer. Connection. Yeah.

23:40

It's just weird. But yeah, because Jesus is referred to as the morning star in Revelation, then in the

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Latin Vulgate, he was called Lucifer. Or the word was used to describe.

23:53

Yeah. So again, even here, it's just a word. It's not meaning that the devil's real name was

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Lucifer. Like when he was an angel in God's court, and before he got cast down, he was known as Lucifer.

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Just like there's Gabriel and Michael, there was a Lucifer. But that's a myth. Especially when you consider, like I said, that Isaiah 14, 12 isn't about Satan at all.

24:19

Right. It's about the King of Babylon. So remember, this is an oracle concerning the destruction that's going to come against Babylon.

24:27

Even though God is using the Babylonians to bring judgment against Judah, they're not going to stand either.

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God's judgment will come against the Babylonians eventually at some point. So in verse 12, it says,

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How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, sun of the dawn. You have been cut down to the earth, you who have weakened the nations.

24:52

But you said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven. I will raise my throne above the stars of God.

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And I will sit on the mount of assembly in the recesses of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds.

25:07

I will make myself like the Most High. Now that's not unusual for a pagan king, especially the

25:15

King of Babylon, to say something like that. Right. Because he already thought of himself as being like a god anyway.

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So he thinks I can ascend to that very place. I can be higher than the God of the Hebrews.

25:29

Because just consider any of these pagan nations that came against the Hebrews, they thought their gods were more powerful than the

25:35

Hebrew God. Of course. They have. They were blinded. Exactly. Yeah, they're stupid in heart.

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Yeah. And so these gods that they have fashioned in their own image, since they think so high and mighty of themselves and rebellion against God.

25:52

So my God's better than you. My God's better than your God. My God can beat up your God. Yeah. Of course, they believe in no

25:57

God, really. Right. And the Hebrew God was the true God. Amen. So this

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King of Babylon, as haughty as he was, as full of himself and as puffed up as he was, he thinks that he can come against God and actually unseat him and put himself on his throne.

26:16

I'll ascend to heaven. I will raise my throne above the stars of God. Which, by the way, harkens back to the

26:22

Tower of Babel. That's the origin of Babylon. Right.

26:27

That's where Babylon is derived from, from the very place of Babel. I just figured they babbled.

26:33

So. Well, that is why. Ended up babbling. Yeah. That is where the name comes from.

26:40

That's how I remember that. Because that was where God confused their languages. Right. So they babbled. Yeah, that's where Babylon comes from.

26:47

Interesting. And now they just babble on. And so that's where the name is derived from.

26:57

I think I'm taking some English liberties there with that. So the

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King of Babylon thinks that he can take over God's throne. And like I said, this is about the

27:09

King of Babylon. So how can you attribute that to Satan? Well, you don't want to jump there first, because that's not who's being addressed.

27:16

Right. So you have to understand it as the original author meant it to the original audience.

27:21

The original author being Isaiah, the Lord speaking through Isaiah and addressing the

27:26

King of Babylon. So that's the way you have to understand it. How does it apply to Satan then?

27:33

Well, we know that Satan tried to do the same thing. Yeah. Basically, the understanding of Satan is that he tried to ascend to the place of God, or didn't try to, but thought that he was better than God.

27:45

And that's any human being, even when we sin, we think that we know better than God.

27:53

Right. God, I know what I need. I know what I want better than you know what I want. So I'm going to do it because I know it's better for me than you do.

28:02

And so, yeah, same sort of an attitude that we think we know better than God, or we can put ourselves in the place of God.

28:10

Satan wanted to do that. So you can see how this could be something descriptive of Satan.

28:16

The King of Babylon is behaving satanically. Yeah. He's under the influence of the devil.

28:22

That's what I was going to say. Okay. Yeah. Just that either you're for God or you're not.

28:29

Yeah. I mean, there's only two sides. So that's, I mean, since he's not for God or from God, then he's got to be from his father.

28:40

Father of the devil. Yeah. Yeah. As Jesus said in John eight, you do what your father, the devil did.

28:45

That's exactly what I was thinking. There you go. I just couldn't think of it. There you go. It just couldn't remember the reference.

28:52

Yeah. So how is he going to behave? He'll behave like his father, the devil.

28:57

And that's how you can make that attribution in Isaiah 14. You don't want to jump there first.

29:03

Right. But like Becky said, you are either a servant of the Lord or you're a servant of Satan.

29:09

You got to serve somebody, whether you acknowledge that you're serving Satan or not. Right. A person who is not a follower of Christ is a follower of the devil.

29:18

Right. And so you see devilish characteristics in those who follow Satan. And that's what you see here in Isaiah 14 concerning the

29:26

King of Babylon. So that's how you can make that connection, even though that's not exactly what we are to understand.

29:35

That's not the direct connection. Right. It's not the first one. Yeah. And same goes with Ezekiel.

29:41

In chapter 28, there is a lament over the King of Tyre. And there are some that have taken that to, well, maybe what

29:49

Ezekiel is really talking about is Satan. Because some of that language concerning the

29:55

King of Tyre, you were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

30:00

You were in Eden, the garden of God, every precious stone was your covering.

30:06

Well, the King of Tyre wasn't in Eden, but Satan was. Right. So then people will jump right to that with Ezekiel 28.

30:14

Well, this isn't really about the King of Tyre. It's really talking about Satan. But once again, the King of Tyre, who is a very wicked man, obviously has satanic characteristics.

30:24

Right. So there are some ties there. There's some connections there. But you don't want to make that application first.

30:31

Right. Since that's not the way that we're supposed to understand it immediately. We know it is

30:36

Ezekiel talking about the King of Tyre, not Satan. Though we may find some satanic characteristics to it.

30:43

Yeah. But good question. I hope that that was, I hope I was able to draw the line a little better in that response than I did when

30:51

I was teaching through Isaiah 14. I guess that wasn't this past Thursday. That was the week before. Yeah. All right.

30:58

Next one. This is from Fred. So Fred is responding to our Rick Warren stuff from last week.

31:04

Oh, boy. You want me to play a couple of Rick Warren clips? No, please. No, not even, not even a recap.

31:10

You know, just. You told me no. Just a little bit. I'm not,

31:18

I'm not going to play anything. Okay, good. I don't have anything queued up. Didn't prepare that at all.

31:24

So Fred says, listening to your, listening to your Rick Warren stuff, really well done.

31:31

Women pastors, as you are probably aware, were exclusively found among heretical groups throughout church history,

31:38

Quakers, Shakers, Socinian groups, the Seventh -day Adventists, et cetera.

31:45

Yeah, I've got Quakers in my history, in fact. Yeah, you do. My ancestral settlers to Pennsylvania.

31:53

Yeah. They founded a town called Exeter, Pennsylvania. And there was a Quaker church that they built there, which is still standing to this day.

32:02

And there's still a church service meeting there. Wow, that's pretty awesome. It's been around for almost 400 years or something like that.

32:10

Yeah, it's been around for a while. Where your ancestors met mine. That's right. That's right. Becky's ancestors were in the same town.

32:16

They were next door neighbors. That's how far back our connections go. Pretty crazy.

32:22

So Fred goes on, Wesley, who I doubt was saved, but that is another argument, is the guy who began mainstreaming women ministers.

32:30

Much of his reasoning is due in part with a lot of the same reasoning Warren claims convinced him. None of it is exegetical, but it is his opinions of various passages that, as you note in your

32:42

Q &A, doesn't say women are allowed to pastor. Like you say, women are to minister and disciple.

32:47

But that is a distinction different from pastoring. Wesley's influence among the

32:53

Methodists reached through all the splinter groups that formed after his death. So Nazarenes and Pentecostals have historically had women pastors.

33:01

Many of the black denominations that formed after the Civil War have their connection to those holiness groups who had splintered off from the

33:08

Methodists. Their convictions aren't exegetical, but traditional, as they are following Wesleyan Methodism.

33:16

Well, thank you for the history lesson, Fred. I appreciate it. Yeah, I know there's stuff in the middle there you mentioned

33:22

I didn't know about. Going back to the Quakers, the Shakers, that was a

33:28

Quaker group. So they were called the Shakers because they were very Pentecostal and they would literally shake.

33:36

So I kind of thought that about the Quakers when I was a kid. When my dad would tell me about the

33:41

Quakers, I was like, why are they called the Quakers? Did they quake? All I remember is the oatmeal when

33:47

I was a kid. Did they eat their oatmeal? Quaker oatmeal. Yeah, you got the Quaker right.

33:53

You know, the Quaker oatmeal, the Quaker on the oatmeal box, he survived the woke craziness.

34:00

What? He's still there. How did he manage? The Quaker guy. They kept the white guy.

34:08

And they got rid of everybody else. They got rid of everyone else that was a minority.

34:14

Isn't that kind of interesting? That is weird. Anybody that would be cataloged as a minority, they got rid of all of them, but they kept the white guys on all the boxes of stuff.

34:24

That seems a little backwards. The one that cracked me up,

34:30

I thought was just the funniest one of all, was when they got rid of the Indian gal on the

34:35

Land of Lakes butter. Yes. And it was like, so you drove the

34:41

Indian gal off her land. Is that the woke folk? Anyway.

34:50

Stole her land. That's right. That was just too funny. All of that was extremely dumb, but there were fun little ironies in the midst of all of that.

35:01

I had to chuckle at it. That was terrible. It was just awful. It was so ridiculous.

35:07

And so right now, you've got the, oh, I'm not going to say his name, because I'm so tired of hearing about him.

35:13

But the transvestite guy on the land of lakes, Bud Light cans. Okay. And the liberals are responding, oh, you conservatives, you can't even handle it.

35:23

You got the tranny on the Bud Light cans. And we're going, what was with you people two years ago and getting all up in arms because of cartoon characters on boxes?

35:33

I mean, it goes back to shutting down entire towns and keeping the ambulance from getting to the hospitals and stuff like that.

35:41

To comparing that to people going into the White House.

35:48

Remember, like the left versus right. Yeah, right. And they were like, it's a big deal.

35:55

It's a big deal. And it's like, not compared to yours. Yeah, right. It wasn't the White House. It was the

36:00

Capitol building. Capitol building. I always do that. And I'll see the irony there. It's the same building, right?

36:06

No. I'm kidding. I'm only kidding. I was going to say irony.

36:12

It was really the hypocrisy. So the hypocrisy there. I mean, when January 6th happened, which was stupid.

36:17

It was a stupid riot. It was stupid. It was dumb. Don't hear me sitting here defending January 6th.

36:23

That whole thing was dumb anyway. But when the whole January 6th thing happened and everybody was so fired up and up in arms and the conservatives and look how terrible you guys are.

36:32

And really, we know things from the January 6th stuff that there were some dual players in there.

36:40

Oh, yeah. There were some people on the left that instigated some of the stuff that happened. So it wasn't just like, oh, you conservatives.

36:47

Yeah, they got some of those fiery conservatives got a little bit of a push. Yeah. It looks like.

36:54

And there were some inside players in that whole thing as well. Anyway, yeah. Here I am doing conspiracy theories and stuff like that.

36:59

Sorry. So it was the year before. So this was in 2020.

37:05

Yeah, when all the George Floyd stuff was happening. The riots that were going on in Washington, D .C.

37:12

burning property, destroying property, even setting a church on fire. Oh, yeah. There was a mob that was trying to get in the

37:20

White House. I watched the videos. I saw it. And the cops were throwing up fences and barricades to keep the crowd back.

37:28

And the crowd was still violent. And they continued to push. And they were trying to storm the White House.

37:33

Right. And you probably, you know, remember the story of Bush Bush Bush. Wow.

37:42

Trump is still a one syllable last name. Sure. And it's a noun. So Bush Trump.

37:50

Anyway, so so white guy. Yeah, all the same. All us white guys.

37:55

We're just all the same. So Trump. Sorry. Trump got grabbed and and taken to a bunker, which he tried to downplay it later.

38:07

Oh, no, we were just going to go check the air conditioning or something. I can't remember what he said, but it was something. It was something funny like that.

38:13

But yeah, I mean, these this crowd was violent. What would have happened had they gotten into the White House?

38:18

Now, some of those people would have gotten shot and killed. Yes, definitely. And had that happened, it would have been they would have been justifiably killed.

38:26

Right. Because who knows what they were going to do? It's a violent mob. If they were able to get in the

38:32

White House and storm it. So this this was a leftist BLM Marxist mob that was trying to storm the

38:40

White House. Several months later, there's the riot that happens at the Capitol. And it's stupid, right?

38:46

Yeah, the stupid riot. But and suddenly we just have brain fog about the riot in Washington, D .C.

38:53

months before and how they were trying to storm the White House. And setting a church on fire.

38:58

And setting a church on fire. And those security guards that were there keeping the crowd back, they were literally saving those people's lives.

39:05

Yeah, they were. If we let you in, you will get shot. Right. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, hypocrisy all around and all this stuff.

39:15

I'm glad things have died down a little. A little. Yeah, it's just a powder keg.

39:20

I mean, who knows what the next thing is going to be? That's very true. It's going to trigger insane responses.

39:27

And of course, whenever the left does it, it's going to be justified. Right. It's going to be a peaceful protest.

39:33

Right. But when the right... No matter what they do. Yeah. But when the right does it, we're violent extremists.

39:39

And yeah, trying to... We're trying to burn down cities, even though that's not what the right did. Ecclesiastes 7 .9.

39:46

Do not be eager in your spirit to be vexed. For vexation rests in the bosom of fools.

39:52

Amen. That's one to remember. Have a gentle heart and a quiet spirit.

40:01

Yes. As Paul put it with the Thessalonians, mind your own business and work with your hands like we taught you to do.

40:07

Right. You need to get a job or a hobby. Amen.

40:12

And keep yourself occupied. Okay. This next one comes from Genevieve. Should women wear head coverings in church?

40:20

Joel from Right Response Ministries has put out a few videos about how they should. Women should wear head coverings in church.

40:27

And then Genevieve says, eek. I love godly patriarchy and I hate feminism.

40:36

But the head covering thing is hard to come to grips with. What are your thoughts? What are

40:41

Babe's thoughts? Thanks for considering my question and for your perseverance in ministry.

40:47

It's been a while since we've called this the Gabe and Babe Show. That's true. But there you go, Babe. You got called upon here.

40:54

What are your thoughts about a head covering? Oh, she asked you first. Well, here's the thing about that.

41:04

There is only one place in the whole Bible that we go to talk about all this. Because it's really the only one place where you find this instruction of any kind.

41:13

First Corinthians. It's First Corinthians 11. So at the very start of First Corinthians, you have

41:18

Paul saying, be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ. Which really closes the previous section.

41:25

First Corinthians 11, too, starts a new section that goes through chapter 14 on orderliness in worship.

41:32

And that's where we are in the teaching that I'm doing right now in my

41:37

Sunday school class. So the lesson that you'll hear this coming Sunday, God willing, will be in First Corinthians 14, 1 through 19.

41:45

We're still talking about speaking in tongues and prophesying. You'll get some clarity on what these two gifts are and the proper use of them in the corporate gathering according to the instruction that Paul is giving there in First Corinthians.

41:58

So it'll still be a good lesson. Now, if you've been following those lessons, you might have noticed you never heard me teach on First Corinthians 11.

42:05

That's true. I was not there that Sunday. And I had handed off the teaching to a sub in my class.

42:12

And I told him he just had to finish up chapter 10 if he wanted. I wasn't going to ask him to continue on into chapter 11.

42:18

But he said, I've already got the lesson written. And I said, well, you have at it then. I'm not going to stop you from doing it.

42:25

So I let him do First Corinthians 11. That saved me from having to touch on it. But there were still a lot of questions about it.

42:30

And I mean, I'm sure if I did it, there were still going to be a lot of questions on it. Oh, yeah. So let me read through this here.

42:36

This is 15 verses, verse 2 through 16. Paul says, now I praise you because of your remembrance.

42:43

You remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions just as I delivered them to you. But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man.

42:51

And the man is the head of a woman. And God is the head of Christ. Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying shames his head.

43:00

But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying shames her head.

43:05

For she is one in the same as the woman whose head is shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut short.

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But if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut short or to have her head shaved, let her cover her head.

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For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and the glory of God. But the woman is the glory of man.

43:30

For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man. For indeed, man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake.

43:38

Therefore, the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head because of the angels. Nevertheless, in the

43:44

Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman.

43:54

But all things originate from God. Judge for yourselves. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?

44:02

Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him? But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her.

44:11

For her hair is given to her for a covering. But if one is inclined to be contentious, we have no other practice, nor have the churches of God.

44:22

So there you go. 1 Corinthians 11, 2 to 16. So bald men are blessed.

44:29

That's right. They don't have their heads covered at all. That's what

44:34

I got out of that. They're even more of the image and glory of God than the rest of us.

44:40

I could see somewhere some legalistic dude is taking that as, if you really want to give glory to God, shave your head.

44:50

Shave your head. That was, you got to shave your head. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

44:57

Now, what does this mean? Does this mean that women - Because everybody focuses on the women. Right. That's it.

45:03

The focus entirely on this is either, it's a shame for men to have long hair.

45:08

Yes. It's either going to be that. That is true. Or it's going to be women, you need to wear a head covering.

45:14

But really, I have never heard anybody about the long hair on a man, on a man.

45:21

The long hair on men. You've never heard anybody do that before? No. Oh my goodness, I have. Really?

45:27

Of course, I grew up in Southern Baptist churches. Now, when I say

45:32

Southern Baptist churches, I don't mean the denomination. Right. I grew up in Southern Baptist churches.

45:40

In the South. In the South, a Baptist church in the South. And yeah, we heard things like that.

45:48

I wouldn't say fairly often, but it came up. The discussion went, it's a shame for a man to have long hair.

45:55

Now, my dad would have been a part of some of those churches when I was younger. We attended a church that was like that.

46:02

But I mean, he had hair. He kind of had a mullet. Yeah. So, I don't know what constituted his long hair.

46:10

Like at what point does it get to a certain length where you go, okay, that's shameful. Now it's too long.

46:17

And at what point does a woman's hair become too short that you say that she's cut her hair short and that's shameful for her?

46:24

See, that's part of the problem with this particular section. There are things here that aren't spelled out for us in great enough detail to make this a requirement for anybody.

46:37

Right. Yeah. And that's the way I've taught 1 Corinthians 11, 2 through 16. Let me ask you this question.

46:44

What is a head covering? Great question. Yeah. What is it? I don't know.

46:50

Is it a shawl? That's what I have in my mind. Okay. Something like a shawl. But at the same time,

46:56

I have no idea. When I lived - Is it a hat? Yeah. Well, see, when I lived in the South, you had those women with the big hats.

47:02

Yeah. Especially on Easter. Oh, yeah. And I would complain when I was a kid, I can't see anything.

47:08

These ladies with these hats. I can't even see the pastor anymore or the music director.

47:14

How do I know what we're singing? So, yeah, the big hats in the South, that was the one.

47:19

How about the Mennonite women? They got that little bun covering back there. Ah, true. And usually, that's about the size that it is, like as big as a coaster.

47:27

But they have it right there on the back. Yeah. Is that enough? Is that covering enough? So, you see what

47:33

I mean here? Yeah. There are some things in this particular section and because this is the only place in the whole

47:41

Bible that we find any instruction about head covering, then there's nowhere else that we can go back to and make reference to and say, oh, there's no cross reference, right?

47:51

Oh, this is what this is talking about. Now, here's what we can know for sure. Whatever Paul is talking about here, the

47:58

Corinthians knew exactly what he was referencing. Yeah, that's what I figured. They knew what the hair length was, whether it was for the man or for the woman.

48:08

They knew exactly what the covering was in reference to. Right. What this covering was, how it was to be worn and what context it was supposed to be worn.

48:15

And with some translations, it will say that a wife wears a covering.

48:21

Here, the way that we're reading it, every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying shames her head.

48:27

So, the legacy standard, which I'm reading from, is going to translate that as woman.

48:33

But if you read it in the English standard version, it's translated as wives. So, are we only talking about a wife?

48:40

Interesting. Or are we talking about all women in the church? Yeah. See how this particular passage can be a little confusing?

48:46

So, with this section, yeah. With this section, we really have to be gracious.

48:53

And if somebody feels so convicted to wear a head covering, then wear a head covering.

48:59

And I don't think any church should require women to not wear head coverings.

49:05

Okay. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, maybe there's a rule in the congregation or something like that.

49:11

You're not supposed to wear anything on your head when you come in. Well, I would say you could implement that for the men.

49:16

But if a woman wants to come in with a covering on her head, you should allow her to be there with a covering on her head.

49:22

And be there without ridicule. Right. Like nobody else is pointing at her going, oh, that's kind of weird. Why is she wearing that on her head?

49:28

Yeah. Now, my girls, especially our two middle girls, Aria and Raya, they've asked me if they can wear something on their head when they go to church.

49:39

Yes. And I've told them, sure, that's fine. My son tries to go to church in a ball cap.

49:45

And I tell him, you got to take it off and leave it in the truck. Yes. You're not going to be wearing your hat in church.

49:52

So, I let my girls do it. I don't let my son do it. The girls do it mostly because they want long hair.

50:01

And so, they pretend that that's their hair. Oh, yeah. Well, that's true. But people don't know that.

50:07

Yeah. I get that. Now, some interpret this passage as the covering for the woman really is her hair.

50:14

Okay. It's not wearing something else additionally on top of the head. It's her long hair.

50:20

Because of the statement that's made in verse 15, if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her for her hair is given to her for a covering.

50:30

So, some interpret that as being, well, that's the covering. That's the covering that she wears on her head.

50:35

So, she just needs to have long hair. Right. But again, then you've got the question of, okay, well, what's long hair?

50:41

Right. Define for me what's long and what's too short and things like that. So, again, whatever this was in reference to, the

50:49

Corinthians knew it exactly. We don't. We continue to debate about that, which is why this needs to be a liberty matter.

50:58

Right. And I don't think teachers should be absolutely implementing a woman should wear a covering on her head.

51:04

Now, if you attend a church like that, and that's what they require, that's between you and your brothers and sisters in the

51:10

Lord and the Lord. If that's the kind of church you want to attend, fine. I'm not going to say that you're doing anything wrong.

51:16

If that's your conviction, everybody's in agreement to it, then go ahead and do it. Sure. Now, would you actually discipline somebody out of your church because the woman wouldn't want to wear a head covering?

51:26

I hate it when there's too much gray area. Because there's not a black and there's not a white.

51:32

And so there's no way to judge it. Right. Like, there's just too much. Now, whenever...

51:37

It's all up to interpretation, I guess. Yeah. This isn't open to interpretation in the sense that we can make it mean whatever we want it to mean.

51:46

Oh, no, no, no. That's not what I meant. Okay. I meant like... Gotta be careful with that phrase is all

51:52

I'm saying. Sure. But I mean, like, whether or not, you know, it's an actual head covering or if it's like, how long your hair is or, you know, how to cover it and all that stuff.

52:04

That's what I mean. Yeah. There's just too much gray area. So like I said, the Corinthians knew what this meant.

52:10

Even though we're kind of perplexed about it. I recently... So it's one of those that we can use our permanent marker and mark out of it?

52:16

No, no. You still have to read it exegetically. You still have to, as best as we are able, read it and apply it in a way that is honoring of the

52:27

Lord. And in the context of scripture, you have to try as best as you can to understand what the original author was saying to the original audience, and then how it therefore applies to us today.

52:38

Now, one might argue that historically, women generally wore coverings going into church.

52:44

And it's only been in the last several decades, if not, you know, the past century or something like that, with feminism that came in, that women stopped wearing things on their heads.

52:55

And even their very attire became a little bit more revealing or form fitting than it was before.

53:02

So this is the influence of feminism that has come in. And so we need to reclaim femininity and masculinity.

53:09

Part of that is recognizing gender roles and knowing how God has assigned those roles in church.

53:16

And to all of that, I say, amen, that's true. Yes. And so then some will go, then that means women have to wear coverings again and men don't.

53:24

And I'm like, okay, well, if your church is convinced by that, if you're convicted of heart that that's the way it needs to be, do so.

53:32

But I don't think that you can look at another church that's not doing it and saying, see, they're just not as pious as we are.

53:38

Right. They're not as holy as we are. Because again, I'm going to come back to this passage and I'm going to ask you, okay, tell me exactly what this covering is and exactly how it needs to be worn.

53:48

Because there's nothing in there about it, nor can you point to me anywhere else in scripture that gives us a little bit more detail as to what we're talking about here.

53:57

Yeah. So that's the way that I would respond to it. Obviously, I, you know. But the lesson that you can get from it is that the

54:04

Lord is in church of the family and the husband is. The head of the wife.

54:10

The head of the wife and the wife is submissive and they all go to church together.

54:16

Yeah, right. You can get that out of 1 Corinthians 11. Yeah. What we can clearly glean from this is that there are distinct, there's distinctions, believe it or not.

54:26

There's distinctions between male and female. Yes. Men and women. Very clear. And God has certain intentions for men in the church and certain intentions for women in the church.

54:35

Yes. And both are important. And both are important. Very important. For a functional church, which continues on in this section when

54:42

Paul gets to chapter 12 and he talks about the functioning body of Christ. Both men and women are needed in the church to have a functioning body.

54:50

Yes. So we know from this passage, there's distinct roles for men, distinct roles for women.

54:58

Men should not try to act like or look like women. Right. And women should not try to act like or look like men.

55:04

Right. Each should fulfill their proper roles to the glory of God. Amen. Since God's glory is emphasized here in this section as well.

55:14

All right. So I hope that was helpful for you. Genevieve, your little eek in there was adorable, but I hope that we've helped to resolve some things that you were conflicted about in your mind with regards to head coverings.

55:28

Yeah, hopefully. And understand that response that I gave, that is my honest response with regards to that particular passage.

55:34

I'm not just saying that because I'm trying to side with Genevieve. If I thought you were doing something wrong,

55:39

I think my manner of teaching is well established that I would tell you, no, you're understanding that wrong.

55:45

Right. But that's how we can read 1 Corinthians 11. I think it is too difficult a passage to have to implement some sort of requirement upon people that women have to wear head coverings, men should not be wearing coverings or they should have short hair based on this particular passage.

56:08

All right. Let's see. I think I've got one more. OK, here's this one. So this goes back to our

56:14

Rick Warren thing from last week. So Carter says, OK, fine, I'll ask what are primary and secondary and tertiary doctrines?

56:23

Oh, dear. How do you categorize them? Does the Bible categorize them on the subject of women pastors?

56:30

If it's not a salvation issue, it's at least a secondary issue. So why does this seem like such a big deal?

56:36

I'm not asking that as if to suggest it doesn't need to be a big deal. I believe that it is.

56:43

But why is it so big a deal if the act of a woman preaching to men and women is not as itself heresy?

56:52

I think I understand what he said. Was that wording OK? I think so. I think I understand what he's saying there. Let me see. Let me try to put the emphasis somewhere else and see if it makes sense.

57:01

But why is it so big a deal? Why is women preaching so big a deal if the act of a woman preaching to men and women?

57:09

So he's talking about the mixed congregation together. OK. Why is it so big a deal if the act of a woman preaching is not itself heresy?

57:20

Like heresy is not being committed when a woman preaches. OK. I wouldn't know how to answer that question,

57:27

Carter says. Thank you for the time that you put into this. Now, I've written on this. So we're already at the end of the episode.

57:33

I'm not going to go into detail. We won't we won't go into primary, secondary and tertiary doctrines. Maybe that'll be another episode and maybe somebody else will have to ask it again.

57:44

You're so mean. Or Carter, if you want to be so persuasive in this, you can you can ask it again next week or you send me another email and go, no, sorry, that answer wasn't sufficient.

57:55

You've got to answer it next week. I have talked about this before. As a matter of fact, I did an article on it.

58:00

This was two years ago. It was when it was right before the Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting when

58:07

Ed Litton was elected president, because his wife has pastored with him.

58:13

Right. Had has preached sermons at his church in Alabama. Right. And so I was writing an article talking about this is the man that's running for president that some people want to elect.

58:24

Rick Warren at that time had just elected women or just ordained women to become pastors at Saddleback.

58:33

There was what else was there in there? Oh, I talked about like the major Southern Baptist churches that included

58:41

Church by the Glades, which had a woman pastor fellowship that's in Dallas, Ed and Lisa Young Elevation Church, which is

58:50

Stephen and Holly Furtick are both the lead pastors of that church. And now Saddleback is is led by a husband and wife duo as lead pastors.

59:02

So anyway, I talked about some of those things in that article, and I laid out the whole concept of primary, secondary and tertiary doctrines.

59:09

And I talked about how this issue with women pastors is a fundamental issue. It's not it's not fundamentalism in the sense that if a woman is preaching, then somehow she's not saved.

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But it is fundamental in the sense that this is a clear command that is given to us in Scripture. And when

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Paul even lays it out in 1 Timothy 2, 11 and 12, I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

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And then he says in verse 13, for it was Adam who was for him first and then Eve. And he goes back to the law.

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He goes back to the creation order, the Genesis account. And these were he bases it in the fundamental roles of men and women that Adam's first, and he's the head of his wife.

01:00:00

So you don't put the woman in a position of overseer in which she now has an authoritative teaching position, even over the men of the church that is disrupting even the basic fundamental roles that God created men and women to have.

01:00:18

You can't do that in the home, but here you are doing it in church. Yeah. Well, of course, the people who are doing it in church say you can do it in the home.

01:00:25

Right. The woman can wear the pants and she can be the head over her husband as well because they're supposed to mutually submit to one another.

01:00:31

That's that's gonna be the argument there. Yeah, it's 50 50, not 100 100. Yeah, exactly right.

01:00:37

So so anyway, that's why it's a fundamental issue, because what Paul ties it back to is the very creation order, right?

01:00:46

The way God made us. So we're not saying fundamentalism is like a salvific issue.

01:00:51

We're saying fundamentalism. It's a basic issue. Right. These are church basics.

01:00:57

Right. When you're looking at it. 101. Yeah. Churchianity 101. When you're looking at a church that has a woman pastor, you're looking at a church is deliberately disobeying

01:01:09

God's word. And it is so indicative of a deeper problem that's going on there.

01:01:15

And like I said last week, you will find all kinds of other bad doctrinal issues in that church.

01:01:22

It won't just be that. And as I argue in the article, I'm going to put a link to the article in the in the show notes to this particular episode.

01:01:30

But as I also argue in that article, I present case after case of churches and denominations that ordain women pastors and how long it took them to get from that to affirming

01:01:43

LGBTQ ism. It happens almost every time.

01:01:48

Wow. And it's happening in the Southern Baptist Convention even now. Yeah, that's true.

01:01:54

The convention is capitulating on the issue of women pastors and a little more behind the scenes, but you can certainly find it.

01:02:02

There's matters of affirming LGBTQ ism going on within some of the biggest, most influential churches in the

01:02:09

Southern Baptist Convention as well. And a lot of people just want to ignore it. It's not that big a deal. It's not what you say it is.

01:02:16

Right. But no, it's it's a big deal. Does it now? Now that opens another can of worms.

01:02:21

But I was just kind of curious, since it happens in the bigger churches first, is that a problem that we have big churches?

01:02:32

Well, big churches are a big problem. Touche. But I won't say that's universally true.

01:02:39

I mean, I've attended good big churches. Very true. Our church, First Baptist Lyndale, would be called a big church.

01:02:46

Oh, that's true. Now, by comparison with some other churches around East Texas, not.

01:02:53

It's still pretty small, but it's average. Yeah. It's larger than average. Yeah. It's still larger than average.

01:02:59

So you could call that a big church. It's definitely not a megachurch. Right. But that's not to say that megachurches are inherently wrong.

01:03:05

The first church was a megachurch. True. The church that gathered in Solomon's portico in the temple in the

01:03:12

Book of Acts was thousands of people. That's a megachurch. And it wasn't until persecution came that they scattered and then, you know, kind of went throughout the land.

01:03:22

And the gospel started spreading the way that Christ intended it to anyway. Right. So, but yeah, the way the church started was a megachurch.

01:03:31

There are good, solid megachurches out there. They're few and far between. But I think that's the case with a lot of churches in general.

01:03:38

You're going to find a few good, solid, expositional gospel preaching churches.

01:03:45

But the majority of them have a lot of problems. Just curious.

01:03:53

Yeah. Random. You got to be careful. Be careful where you go to church. Just because it has a steeple or a cross on it or something out front that says church.

01:04:04

Good reviews on Yelp. That doesn't mean that it's automatically a good church.

01:04:10

You got to be discerning. Yes. Check the website. Listen to sermons. Ask questions when you go in.

01:04:16

Yeah, ask the pastor. Ask for a statement of faith. Yeah. If they've got a written statement of faith, have them show that to you.

01:04:23

All right. I think that pretty much wraps things up. All righty. Thank you, Carter, Genevieve, Fred, Nathan, Scott, Matt, and Steven.

01:04:34

Wow, we got through a lot of emails today. We did. I didn't realize I got through that many. If you would like to send us an email, the address is whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

01:04:44

God bless you. And God willing, we'll be back next week. Yeah. Let's pray. Yes, let's.

01:04:50

Heavenly Father, we thank you for this time together. We thank you that we have had this opportunity to converse and go through God's word and rejoice in the things that you do for us and ponder over some of those more difficult passages.

01:05:05

Give us understanding of these things, and not just that we would understand the words, but we even know how to live according to them and apply them and be obedient to the

01:05:15

Lord our God. Help us to be gracious in those areas that we don't understand. Or when those of us who are more mature, we're instructed in Romans 15 to bear with the failings of the weak, not to please ourselves, but for the good of our neighbor to help to build them up.

01:05:31

And so we build one another up in the unity of the faith as we continue to grow in Christ likeness until the day of his return.