Crosspolitic Returns: Sumpter, Knox, & Rench Discuss Upcoming Fight Laugh Feast Conference DMW#189

There we go. Exploring theology doctrine and all of the fascinating subjects in between. Broadcasting from an undisclosed location. Dead men walking starts now. Well, hello everyone. Welcome back to another episode of dead men walking podcast.

Thanks for coming along. I'm the ride. Appreciate you following us on social media. Devin walking podcast and check us out at the MW podcast .com. You know, we've also been thinking what can we call the listeners, you know dead heads are already taken Jerry Garcia took that from us.

So we can't go there so if you got any ideas of what we're gonna call the listening audience, we're taking those over the next few weeks and If we pick your suggestion something special is going to be shipped out to you, but enough of the shameless self-promotion.

Let's get right into the episode today because we have some returning guys that I absolutely love. I can't stress it enough and I have on the podcast before that. They're the one of the reasons I do something like this each week on dead men walking podcast have been huge fans of theirs for Quite a long while listen to their podcast their ministries read their books follow what they're doing on social media.

That is Sumter Knox and wrench from cross politic. How you guys doing brothers? It's good, man. Thanks. Thanks for having us.

I remember when you first started you. I love that intro. This is great. Yeah, you just got me fired up already. You've just you got a great voice for this and just seeing you grow over the years been awesome man.

And his pain. Well, I.

Dude, your pace is like whoa. Whoa. Whoa. I'm a salesman and I got ADHD. So you don't. I mean talk fast. Let's get to the content, baby. And you guys always bring it. You know and you guys on cross-politic if you guys are listening to this podcast right now I'm sure you have heard of cross-politic.

If you haven't pause this right now go. Follow subscribe. Get on fight left feast. Throw him a couple bucks every month as well, too. Because that's the only way we build things is by supporting our brothers in the Lord like this.

Go check them out. There you go. So but but we don't want to just sit here and say how much we love each other because we can do that at the conference. Next month. That's what we want to talk about. I want to talk about fight left feast conference.

I believe 11 through 14th if I'm if I'm correct my saying the right dates there. I think I'm coming down on the 11th. Okay Politics of six days of creation. You guys always have great subjects a lot of good speakers.

Can we just dive right into it and give first of all, there's still tickets available. If anyone's listening, they want to travel down to Kentucky or up or over to Kentucky. Give them you know, is there tickets available and then give us a little overview what we're gonna be talking about for those three four days.

Yeah, there's still tickets available. People can go to fight left feast calm. For to sign up this year the topic of the conference this year is politics of six-day creation.

And also before you got the arc encounter. Not just anywhere in Kentucky, I mean it get it right at the life-size arc arc.

Yeah, and we actually ought to do a pre business conference as part of it. You'll see the schedule. Pre business makers we call business makers conference and that is. All the schedule and you can sign up separately for that.

It's real cheap and there's a. There's a number of things we're doing in between all this. There's after parties. There's that where Greg buys first rounds of beers.

Look at I love the look on people's faces when two three four hundred guys show up to a bar. Take it over start singing psalms smoking cigars. They have their craft beer and people who are just there for a dinner go what is going on?

We've had lots of conversations with non-believers and they go where you from. What are you doing? Why you singing? It's actually a great witnessing opportunity because you're in a public space and you go look at this is who we are.

And this is what we do. We're glorifying God even at this after party. So proud to sponsor it and looking forward to it. And I just heard that you got Bonson for the for the business for the pre business show.

Is that correct?

Yeah, David Bonson's coming in Speaking at three o 'clock on the business makers conference and then we're doing a panel with all the speakers all the business. You have Camden Spiller and then you have Maddox Industries, yep, Camden Spiller CEO of Maddox Industries and you have Heather the CEO of Gibson go and her brother coming.

Okay coming in there both. Their spouses are actually coming nice and everything and then David Bonson at 3 p .m. And then a panel at 4 p .m. So the way we do our.

I want to have a personal conversation with those people. That's why I'm there.

These companies are awesome. I mean, yes and go was called before Canadian Parliament for funding the trucker convoy. Yes, like these people are really killed it. Yeah, and they killed they killed a Canada Parliament and our country America.

Didn't help them. Yeah. Wow.

The Conference, the Venue, and the Business Makers Track

Okay, I'm gonna ask kind of a how the sausage is made and answered however you want. But I am always astounded over the last four years of really kind of how I've been connected with you guys you find speakers theologians scholars political activists that are kind of.

They're they're up-and-coming. They have a little following but it's like you guys get them, right? And then once they connect with you, it's like they explode, you know what I mean? I'm thinking, you know and Whitlock in his own right had stuff going on.

He's being SPN. But it's like some of these guys that you get Bonson is like Everywhere now and it's like you guys get a hold of them six months to a year before they just became nationwide names. I mean who's who's on yours who's scouting your talent over there because they're doing a phenomenal job.

Let's just give an example somebody like pastor Doug Wilson who's been doing this for what 40 years at least. Yeah, something like that. Well, all you have to do is go to the trash bin of evangelicalism look over the edge.

Everything that's in there and you'll find all these guys. Yeah, I mean I'm not even joking true I mean the last time that pastor Wilson was on this the circuit for speaking conference and speaking at conferences.

It was well that was the earlier one and then you had a John Piper. Yeah, he was at this. That's the last time that he was desiring God conference. That was it. Yeah, and after that he just fell off and I'm trying to figure out why yeah.

Yeah, I mean literally I mean It just it blows my mind that he's not invited to a conference. It's particularly ones that are dealing with worship that deal with education that didn't we got sovereign?

I mean, he's got he's got 40 over 40 books. He's written or something like this, but I got 40 more. But it just it just I mean I just don't get it and so it's for us. I think the first thing way we started with this was like, you know.

Why why don't we then make sure that everything we do? I mean.

Whenever we schedule a conference we we put pastor Doug and he gets to talk. That's right as long as long as he's willing and able to do it. He's automatically got an invite to do two talks. Yeah, and then we form everything else around him.

And you know what the thing with David Bonson I just one of the things that's really amazing to me is that Christians do a poor job of thinking about business. They do a poor job of thinking about engaging in The the practical realities of the world and David Bonson is one of those guys who has a lot of wisdom and he the way that he Communicates with his people who are his enemies or people who he doesn't agree with has been class act.

Yes, and and you know what and I've been so impressed with Somebody who has his academic level and and I'm just saying this about myself because I'm around guys who are very intelligent But is able to pander the people like me like how do I get this and he's willing to do that.

And I think I think pastor Toby labeled it So right the first time we really interviewed he said he's kind of like a Daniel or a you know.

Like God puts him or Joseph, you know in Pharaoh's court in in Nebuchadnezzar's court. Yes, and but he's you know, really and now he's making his own court, right? That's for true.

Yeah, and so and there's just guys like that and we you know one of the blessings about being around here is we get. To be around a lot of people that people don't know or haven't heard of our coming because we have NSA we have Logos.

We have so many beautiful things that are sprouted in in in Moscow that a lot of people don't know about. But these people have been working for years and nobody has Really platformed them I guess in the beginning and since God has somehow given us this opportunity.

We're like, well, look if if people got all the big speakers at their conferences, that's great. We don't have the money even afford those guys.

We like to think of ourselves as kind of like Sherwood Forest, that's right, that's right.

You know, I don't I don't know if you guys follow football, but I'm gonna call you guys my Detroit Lions of this year. We're take what you guys find the talent. You turn them into dogs and then you set them out on the field for the glory of the Lord, so.

Because Detroit man, they're looking good this year. Knox is from Minneapolis and you just offended him.

I'm with America's team, but I get the analogy.

Well, look I'm glad you're giving credit to those speakers but I just wanted to for the listeners to. You guys have done a phenomenal job and building what you're building out there and I love it when I see people go.

Yeah, I'm done with Shapiro. I'm on cross politic now. Sorry. I'm done with You know Walsh I'm uncrossed but they're the only ones speaking absolute godly truth. You could be conservative you can be these different things and say you're pro-life and I'm doing air quotes because even our pro-life conservatives have a real issue with Abolition and things like that and it's like that's that's why you guys are growing I think and what people are attracted to truth and I've said it a million times.

So I I really appreciate you standing firm on that. So getting back to the conference tickets still available October 11th through 14th the The politics of six days of creation. I've said this before but anyone listening it isn't unlike any other conference.

You're gonna go to okay. I've been to the national g3 conference I've been to smaller conferences with James White and some of my reformed Baptist friends and I've been here and there and I know Joe Webbins doing some stuff which Joel was a guy that came on early with you guys and you guys kind of helped each other out.

There now he has a platform to speak and huge but it's different white laugh feast is different the the psalm singing the the The the speaking the subjects that we're talking about. You're not getting this in a suit and tie at some stuffy Conference where you're sitting there for nine hours a day and you're going I can't take any more notes.

It is like you're just getting bombarded with truth and it's a fun interactive way. It's obviously very deep and theological, but it's also godly and fun. Tell me what this what this conference is gonna be more of the same I'm sure but how are we getting into the politics of the six days of creation?

What are we thinking there? No, you tell us you just doing such a great job. Hey, look, I'm bringing down some guys that have never experienced you guys or or anything like this. So I my my joy is when I bring brothers down like that and they go what you can do this.

You can talk like this. You can have a camaraderie before in between, you know with my reformed brothers and sisters and it's it's family. It's it's sound theological Doctrine, it's all these things and then on top of that.

I'm making business connections. I've sold houses for people. I've met there I've got a guy doing my marketing that was in your podcast booth. I'm buying coffee from people that show up there like this is what it's about and anyone listening that goes.

Where should I spend my hard-earned money? There's 500 conferences a year. This one goes at the top of my list easily. I know g3 is happening in a few weeks. I went no, I'm good on that one for now. And I'm not saying anything against them.

I think they're two different types of conferences, but this one's a priority for me just because of those things. So I always look forward to the subject matter too because I think it last year was politics of sex, which was just What I needed what everyone needed there those talks.

So what are we gonna get into on on creation? Can is there anything we can argue about or differ about? Oh, yes. Why is there politics in creation?

Why the Politics of Six-Day Creation Matters

Yeah doesn't even mean the reason why we started off with the reason why we came up with politics of Six-day creation similar like what we do with all our topics is we think man we need it. We need to talk about this.

And then it's funny watching over the year how actually the topic builds up and it becomes more and more relevant over the year. Yeah, and God's kind in that way but the reason why we chose politics of six-day creation is because we are living in a in a world that is collapsing from the evolutionary framework being taught and distill and instilled in our.

Dyer holder for generations. Darwin is the mind virus. That's killing us. Yeah.

And so what we have. It's the way Mr. Potato like science. Going on and for a long time is destroying our minds and now you're actually seeing our kids. Like physically get destroyed now, right? You know the mr. Potato head body parts are being interchanged.

One kid can go from being a man and six months later there. They look like a woman and they've cut off that they've emasculated themselves and everything. And so I think this the politics of six-day creation is critical to humanizing our children.

Versus destroying our kids spiritually mentally and now physically. Well and fundamentally I think it goes back to the authority of God's Word. So did and and I think that's what where we started. So we started with questioning.

It's the age-old demonic Satanic question did God really say. And but it goes back even before like did God really say don't eat the fruit. Did God really say let there be light. Did God really distinguish the waters above from the waters below and did God really separate the waters from the dry ground.

Did God really speak? Birds and fish did God really speak. Stars and the Sun moon stars nothing out of nothing. God really say let's make man in our own image male and female. He created them and did he really command them and bless them to be fruitful multiply fill the earth subdue the earth.

Did he really? But if if we go fuzzy there if we go which is what the church did and we need to lay this at the feet Of the church the Christian Church Said about a hundred years ago. I love us and I know a hundred years ago, bro I'm talking about and I'm talking about Presbyterians like I'll be straight up honest.

It was Presbyterians who started saying It doesn't matter how God created the world. This is a metaphor for you know, God.

There's this. It's a secondary issue. We don't need to worry about it. Yeah.

It's a symbolic and whatever and but right alongside that but as soon as you you make creation. Symbolic and a and a metaphor and this sort of it's it just it represents how I feel about whatever. Then this is the same thing can be said about the rest of the Bible and and in particular the gospel itself.

Yeah, God didn't create the world in six days. Then Jesus didn't die and rise again on the third day. Yeah, and and what you do is as soon as the more fuzzy you make that then it's more fuzzy on. What is the image of God when does life begin with.

What is male? What is female? What is marriage. And then if you don't know what marriage is you don't know what human society is. You don't know what justice is. You know, it's like it's all gone blurry and fuzzy and ambiguous and so I think.

Everything you can find everything in the first two chapters of Genesis. And it also goes back to the authority of God's Word and pastor.

I just want to piggyback on what you just said because I think this for me. This is the main reason I've been really Spending a lot of time restoring a biblical cosmology and one of the ways that you know that people.

So people will actually say well. Yeah, you're right. But then they still operate in fear. We believe in the resurrection even though but they're still fearful. They're still fearful about the world because they don't they don't really believe the reality of of Genesis.

They don't believe that the rollout of Genesis actually has implications on how the world actually functions. Because of evolution like Abe was talking about our understanding of the the structures of the world are evolutionary built.

So we believe in the resurrection. We believe that God is saving people in the world. But we don't believe that the world Functions in the way that God made it to flow which and this is what I mean by that.

We actually believe this is an evolutionary concept that evil will win.

We believe that evil and insanity. We believe that the strongest will survive.

We believe that insanity is is sustainable long-term, right? Right, it's not but it's not and this is my this is what I'm trying to get at. This is why this event is so important because if we don't have a biblical cosmology.

Then we see stuff like the World Economic Forum. We see things like AI and we see things like technology and we become afraid. Because we think that that's how it works and we and we don't think that the world has a creation in the teleos.

Right, and so when the Bible talks in Proverbs and says the wicked will plot but they will fall into their own hole. We don't believe that we get fearful and say oh my goodness. What are we gonna do? Instead we should be thinking how is God gonna take over Klaus Schwab and make the collapse happen of.

Economic. For how's God gonna use AI? Fill the earth with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord as the waters cover the sea. Simply just even just in the power of the word. Yes, like that that no that.

You know, what is the that line in Luther's hymn one little word shall fell them. I. Back there so happy. One little word like Jesus Christ is that word that's right Crucified buried raised from the dead, but it's the word of that gospel and it's like yeah, we have we have we have the nukes.

That's it. Yeah, we we have the nukes.

Yeah, and so so this is what I'm talking about. So there's not a whole lot of people talking about this issue. Like you guys are and doing a conference on this most people would go. Why would we do a conference on an issue that like you said is symbolic because I'm gonna tell you guys right now cross-denominational talking to believers.

They don't have an opinion on the creation. They're very wishy-washy on it. I don't know. Maybe it's symbolic. Maybe it's every day represents a billion years and it's kind of evolutionary. Maybe it's literal six days.

It doesn't really matter to my faith when in fact it sounds like what you guys are saying and what this conference is going to. Talk about every single thing that we see that stands as Antichrist right now.

It probably relates back to the fact that you don't have a firm foundation on creation. His sovereignty who God is why he created why he created man and woman. I mean it makes perfect sense. So this to me.

This is exciting because we are in an area in a subject and you guys are attacking it from a certain unique way. That literally I don't think anyone else nationally is doing in the Western Church. Which makes me excited because I go there is a truth in there that needs to be explored needs to be preached and needs to Be told to believers because we have zombies walking around on some of these issues that they call themselves believers.

So is it so this is the kind of stuff we're gonna expect when we're looking at some of the sessions at the conference, correct? About these things. Yeah, this is and this is I got to talk about my favorite session as much as I Passed it over.

You should take your earbuds out and close your ears. I don't want you to hear. When we did our first conference during Kovac, I'm joking. We knew from everything that had happened from the beginning our conference happened in 2020 in October was it?

October and so we'd already started going through the Kovac thing and the shutdowns. And so by the time we got to our conference, we knew the first thing that we needed to do was repent. Everybody had manifested that they did not know their Bibles.

Everybody had manifested in one way or another they were afraid. Yeah, and so we knew the first thing we need to do was repent. So pastor Toby preached the opening Talk, he basically just on repentance and I remember like why am I eyes leaking?

Yeah. And ever since then we've kind of made it that that's what we're gonna start at on every conference we're going to come before the Lord because when we have Idolatry in the land we have judgment.

We have to judgment. We need to repent of the idols that we have and so everything is gonna start with repentance. We have not taken God at his word when he's been the creator. He's designed it, right?

We've we've completely tried to argue even from. And I appreciate science. I like science, but we need to our God has said God has said it and that's that's enough and repent and then you'll be able to believe.

Right, then you can get understanding. We have and so my favorite talk. It's probably gonna be this one again is every year has been the opening talk on repentance and pastor Toby has done a great job of Goodness to understand our sin all the way down, right?

Sometimes we get a generic sense of our sin and we're so happy to repent of those generic things, but Every year I'm always surprised at how well and how convicting it is at that sermon to hear. How much sin is down there?

Yeah, I need to repent of you know, and so I'm looking for that's what that's one of be my favorite talks that one. And I'm looking forward to Joe Rigney. As well, but without starting there, I don't think anything else matters, you know, if we don't get to.

I'm at the website. I'm trying to find the list of speakers. That's right here. How do I find it right here? Where is it? A good lineup that it is. Yeah, I don't know like I wanted to see what their other talks are.

I can't find it. They're all there. They're listed their titles and everything. There's there's only. Yeah, there's all the shows network.

Out of the three I can tell.

In my email address and stuff it doesn't.

You're not a member. Yeah, I don't know what Toby's problem is, but great also the beautiful thing I like. The reason why we chose the ARC encounter and this subject is because For one we constantly want to push a family oriented Conference.

Yeah, we want parents there with their kids even like and we pick hard topics I mean we pick politics of sex last year. We had so many parents Emailing me saying hey, this is appropriate for my kid. Oh, you know, no.

No. No, I was like, it's good. Bring your kids.

Nothing worse than what's in the Bible. You gotta talk about why it's political though.

He's here now. Look it doesn't have all the talks. Don't have my foster up there yet. Michael Foster. Oh, yeah. How creation is political. Yes, I mean I mean I just I thought I already hit it but basically I.

Did but Knox doesn't think so. So go.

Not for me so so politics basically is you know is the study of organizing society in obedience to God for the blessing of people which means in order to do justice in the land to have have a magistrates civil magistrates.

That they have to know That there is a God above them. They have to know that God's Word is authoritative on everything it speaks to and it speaks to everything facts. They have to know that this world is made in search in such a way That they can't fight it.

Like if if Darwin is right, then justice really is whatever you feel like right now. Justice justice is like you you can you know sort of wield. You can try to exert force and pressure through people or money or science or injections or whatever and.

And try to sort of force a certain kind of utopian future. But if God is God and he made the world a certain way, then you've got to follow the rules. That's right. Otherwise, you can't get blessing and so justice politics is the the art of ruling well of wielding Power well political power well punishing evildoers rewarding the righteous, but that those are all categories you have to know.

What are those categories? What is male female? What is what is human life? When does it begin? How is it to be guarded and protected? All of that is resident again, and you know and fun and the fact that we have the fall in Genesis 3.

I mean, that's part of ruling in a fallen world. Recognizing, you know where sin comes from the difference between sins and crimes the jurisdictions that God has given to family church and civil magistrates.

The the seed form of all of that is found in Genesis 1 through 3, but I don't know if that's getting it.

We're talking. No, that's exactly that's that's beautiful man. That was All right, there's a round table there too we're gonna talk about Christian nationalism with Stephen Wolfe Joe Webb and Joe Webb and Wilson.

By the way, you know. One of the things we've trying to do is like make sure that this conversation. We want to invite everybody to this conversation because this is a good one. The reason I know people are really frustrated as well as I am about the conversation on Twitter around Christian nationalism.

But if you listen to a pastor Toby just said what he just said is the inescapable reality when it comes to politics. Everybody's doing it with their theology whether they think they are or not, right?

They're either doing it well, or they're doing it poorly, right? And that's why the conversation is feverish pitch because we're saying yo if you get in You will not honor God and how you do your politics.

Which will be bad for the rest of us and you will allow idols to rule over us. Which if you know your Bible we will be under judgment again. And so that's why this conversation really is important. So we can't just like as much as I'm annoyed with the conversation.

We can't run from it.

We need to lean into I mean the current our current our current theology our current understanding of creation and the authority of God's Word is. What is currently in power facts? Like what we have in power right now is the fruit the direct fruit of how the church has discipled.

That's right Christians. And I mean in our country. I mean I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of people who hold office in this land Have had time in church. Yeah, and and they are and and many of them will say they believe in God.

Maybe they do maybe they don't many of them will say they're Christian. Yeah, maybe they are maybe they are truly. But we are getting over and over again the fruit of what we have actually discipled them in which for most evangelicals unfortunately is God doesn't really have anything to say.

It's all these these are little. These are little emotional hits that we set to music on Sunday morning and it'll give you a little spiritual orgasm and then then we're not sure what else and then everyone else is being Discipled effectively by whatever is in the air.

I mean, that's I mean, I just saw this morning. Like there's a covenant college is this PCA sponsored college and they've got a new professor who gave the opening talk and she's got her Pronouns in her bio.

Yeah, like They're fail like like that's that's one of that's the flagship College of the PCA, you know, it's broken there and their genesis the PCA for for decades Presbyterian Church in America has accepted Exceptions of their pastors where they say it doesn't matter if they believe in six-day creation or not.

Yeah, and I had a PCA pastor in Oregon who took that exception, right? And it's and it's like I'm not saying that the same person who takes that exception then goes on to mutilate children. But what I will but what I will say is that that exception over time in the air in the water?

Does are you seeing? Yeah, absolutely. It's gonna cost transgenderism, too. Oh, yeah. Not just Baptist. Okay. All right. Breaking news. All right, let's bring this thing home guys, let's bring this thing home.

I know you guys got stuff to do. So one last thing talk about the vendors just for a few minutes and then we'll wrap up like who's gonna be there. I know you guys have I mean, like I said crazy amount of Christian owned entrepreneurs small businesses podcast I mean it you guys have one of the best vendor sections of any conference I've been to and I would say the most the most unique and diverse meaning.

I'm not gonna get 19 book vendors, which there's a lot of books there believe me and I love it. But I mean, I got social media stuff. We got coffee makers. We got guys who do construction stuff guys, you know.

Marketing all this different stuff. Tell the listeners they're coming down there. They're gonna go buy their tickets right after they're done. Listen to this. What can they expect in the vendor section?

I'm gonna get there but I want to say one thing before I get there. The reason one of the reasons why we chose the ARC encounter was actually for the ARC experience. Yes.

Kenham has actually done a fantastic job and he's given us and he's gonna give a talk at the conference.

He's given a talk at the company morning and. They do a great job presenting the historical Scientific and gospel experience of what the ARC teaches us in scriptures, right? We're actually all of us. We've never had our kids come to the conference.

We're all pulling our kids out of school. Families bringing the whole family to come to the ARC encounter because of the historical scientific and gospel experience. That's what the ARC is. I mean think about the historical implications of the ARC right.

Think about the scientific implications of a worldwide flood. Yeah. And think about what God was teaching Noah in the damnation and salvation and deliverance of what he did through the ARC right. And it's A it's about a three-hour experience just to walk through the ARC alone or longer or longer and everything.

And so I can't imagine my kids to experience. It's a museum inside a life-size.

ARC and then yeah, not even to mention the side the the Creation Museum, which is about 40 minutes away. But we leave time in the schedule Thursday morning to go to the Creation Museum.

It's it's just a great experience visual experience for the kids. I just want to add to that really quickly. Sorry, Greg. We don't answer your questions. We just Know you do what you want. Yeah, but I just want to say too I think one of the big things that I'm we are also after is that the Christian Church has Fundamentally been embarrassed of Genesis.

Come on. That's right. We are we are cowards. We're cowards in the world and we're cowards because we have let the the world secular biologists and physicists Mock us and say you really believe in a worldwide flood with a big boat and a bunch of animals and a giraffe.

Sticking his head out the window and the Christian Church has got to learn to say yes. Yes. Absolutely I do and there were probably there were there were there were two giraffes you idiot. But we but we have to get over that we have to get over the mockery.

We have to get over it and we have to recognize that God's Word is true. If you create the world in six days, he created the world in six days. There was a worldwide flood. There was a big boat. It carried the war a new world into existence.

It saved Noah and his family. It saved these animals absolutely did and there and then trust him for the Geology the biology the science History and trust that he wants us to work through that so that we understand the way he actually made the world history science and the gospel If we're gonna grow a backbone again, it's gonna begin with people standing on the Word of God and saying yes, I do believe this and.

Any other questions?

Very quickly if I can kick in there I would just say just just do a little bit of study understand what the word kinds mean. Understand in biology when we're talking about kinds of animals macro evolution these type of things the the Western the average Western Christian is absolutely ignorant on these things and this is what I hope Ham is gonna talk about and when I go through that museum for the first time these kind of things I see.