Matt Slick Live: February 4, 2025

The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live!

Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm .org.

When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Okay, everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick Live.

Today's date is February 4th, 2025.

For the podcasters, hope you're all going to be having a good time listening today. I'm still adjusting a few things here, tech stuff

I've got to do, but you know, a lot of fun, a lot of fun, a lot of fun. So if you want to give me a call, the number is 877 -207 -2276.

You can give me a call. I want to hear from you. So you can do that. You can also, if you're interested, you can also email me at info at karm .org.

Info at karm .org, C -A -R -M dot O -R -G.

That's easy to do as well. Put the subject line, radio comment, radio question. All right.

Then let's just jump on the lines here. Let's get to Luciano from Arizona.

Hey, buddy. Welcome. Hey, man. How's it going? It's going, man.

Hey, I'm glad you finally called. I know. I know. I've been putting it off way too long. So my question is pretty simple and direct.

Do you think the Antichrist is alive right now? Well, if it was female, it would be

Pelosi, if that's possible, but no,

I would say Biden, but no, I don't know if he is alive right now. He could theoretically be a one -year -old, theoretically.

He could be a 40 -year -old, I don't know. So it's certainly possible because it does seem as though the stuff that needs to be in place for the

Antichrist to be in place, a lot of it's there. Now, we've got to have the rebuilt Temple of Jerusalem, which

I've been to Jerusalem a couple of times, and there's plenty of space to build a temple next to the

Dome of the Rock, or very close to it, geographically. So when that's going to be done, that's when we've got to really pay attention.

And we probably could say, yeah, he's probably alive then. So until that, I don't know, but it's certainly possible, you know, it's really possible that the

Antichrist could be alive. Yeah. So what needs to be done in order for the temple to be, are they starting to work on that yet?

They have the plans, the priests are in training, they've got the Ashes of the

Red Heifer, there was something else that needed to be acquired, that's in place. So there needs to be something to happen.

Now, there's a lot of different scenarios that we could look at. One of them is a possibility that there's going to be some real civil military unrest in that region.

And the Antichrist may be a figure who then comes in and says, okay, let's fix everything, let's make everything good, and makes a peace treaty.

And one of the agreements that he's allowed, or that will occur, is that the temple will be built next to the

Dome of the Rock. And you understand, this is a real serious issue, because when you go into Jerusalem, into that area, you can walk through a large plaza, it's flat.

And there's a, I mean, you could play football in it, a full football field in it. And then you walk up some steps, maybe,

I don't know, maybe 10 feet high of steps. Then you get to another plaza, and that's where the Dome of the Rock is.

And it's about as big as the other area. And there's plenty of room in there to put a temple.

So there's these really interesting areas. If you were to do an aerial view of the Dome of the

Rock, you'd see these large blank areas next to it. So it's certainly possible.

If there's a lot of unrest, and this is allowed to occur, the

Muslims aren't going to like it at all, because of their hatred and their brainwashing, and things like that.

But if it's there, it's going to be a real tenuous peace.

It's a real tenuous peace. In fact, I remember this, when I was walking around the mosque, oh,

I've got to tell you about this, too. When I was walking around the mosque, I went towards the entrance.

And I wasn't going to get anywhere near. I'm 30 feet away from the entrance, and this

Muslim guy held up his hand and looks at me, you know, to stop me from getting any closer. I just nodded.

That's all. And that was as far as that went. No big deal. But they don't want anybody else in there, only

Muslims, etc. So they're very tense about it. But I have, let's see if I can find it, something really interesting, too, this is trivia.

Let's see, karm .org, Dome of the Rock. And so, when you go up the steps, yeah, there it is, when you go up the steps, okay, you go up the steps to the

Dome of the Rock. So there's a picture, if you go to Karm and look up Dome of the

Rock, there's three pictures there. And one is of me standing before the

Dome of the Rock, and you scroll down, and it's one with Eric Johnson, and he's the team leader, or he's the guy who put the tour together, and behind us is a framed something.

And you can see behind, it's over my right shoulder, you can see what's there, and the third picture is an expansion of it, and it looks like a demon.

It does. It's really interesting, this trivia. I'm serious. When Eric, he goes, hey,

Matt, come here, I'm going to show you something. I walk up, he doesn't say anything, he says, what does that look like? I went, oh my goodness, that looks like a demon.

He goes, I know. And so, I enlarge the picture, you guys can all check it out.

Anyway, I'm rambling there. Oh, sorry, sorry. So how do you presume that this dome will be destroyed in order for the temple to be built?

It won't be. It doesn't need to be destroyed. There is plenty of room next to it.

There's plenty of room next to it. Oh, okay. Yeah. In fact, maybe I'll put up a, if I have some pictures,

I can put up another picture about that, or go to an aerial photograph.

Let's see, Google Maps. I wonder if you can do that right now, and I'm just curious. Let's see,

Dome of the Rock, and see if it gives a good aerial. Oh, yeah, there you go.

So, you can do that, and you can see the blank area.

There it is. Yep, Dome of the Rock, there's a large, there's a blank area there. There's enough to, there's some areas there.

Yep, to put a temple. Yeah. Wow. So I don't know if it'll be destroyed, but when the

Antichrist goes into the rebuilt temple of Jerusalem to say he's God, that's when it's going to hit the fan.

Is that when the Tribulation starts? No, that'll be the Great Tribulation period. This is the standard view during the three -year, the seven -year

Tribulation period will be there, and then that happens at the midpoint of the

Tribulation, which I have to review everything to see, but that seems to be what it is.

Got it, got it. Yeah, we're going through the Tribulation. Well, thanks a lot,

Matt. As you know, I've been at this Nazarene school out here in Illinois, and I thought you'd get a kick out of this.

There's been a couple of women pastors coming to preach to us at the chapel. Yeah, the

Nazarene denomination is just, it's going apostate. So, I know that you know Orthodoxy and all, and people don't know that I know you.

And that you're, you sound like your dad. You talk like your dad, too. And so, I'm glad you're out there and stuff.

There's a Nazarene University just three, four, five miles from me, and I wouldn't recommend my own kid to go there.

So, you're there. That's okay. You're going to see a lot more. You're going to see homosexuality being promoted a little bit, and the

Alphabet Monk mentality of women pastors. Wow. So, yeah. Yeah, but you can get a good education there,

I'm sure. Yeah, I've definitely noticed it so far, even in like just three weeks. Yeah?

What have you noticed? Tell me. We had this guy,

I think his name is Albert Hung. He's the leader, him and his wife are both co -reverend for the

Northern California Nazarene thing or something like that. Yeah. And he's been preaching to us for the past couple weeks, and he just kind of really highlighted how oppressed the homosexuals are just in America this past 10 years.

Yeah, they're so oppressed. Yeah, they're so oppressed. Yeah, it's just little stuff like that that he kind of sprinkles in there.

And he also, another thing he said was, we need longer tables, or longer dinner tables, and shorter walls, like boardwalks.

I think that was kind of a shot at what's going on with the deportations and stuff, but it's just little stuff like that.

Raise your hand. Raise your hand and say, do you have a long table in your house, and would you like to house some immigrants who are coming in across the border illegally?

You don't know who they are. They could be murderers, rapists, or they could just be nice people. Do you want to just invite any in your house?

No, we don't. Oh, is that called hypocrisy? Yeah. Yeah, you're going to face a lot of this.

So I'll tell you what, you make sure, because you can have my cell phone if you want, you always make sure you give me a call, or talk to your dad, and he and I can talk, or whatever, that you can stay strong during this whole liberal idiocy that the

Nazarene University is putting you through. Just stay strong. Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you so much.

I really appreciate that. I'll definitely take you up on that, and I hope you have a good one,

Matt. Sure. And I have a suggestion. Why don't you see if you can, if they will, I'll pay my own way to come out there and speak on campus about biblical fidelity.

Oh, I would do that instantly. Wow. I was joking, and they're never going to let me do it, but I would, if they were to say, yeah, we'll have him come in and do a chapel,

I'd fly out there for that. I'd pay my own way. Oh my gosh, that would be amazing. That would be amazing.

I'll talk to my dad about that and see if we can make it happen. I would do it. Of course, they wouldn't like what I had to say, because I'd call them out on their hypocrisy.

Yeah, you might get kicked off stage in the middle of it. Oh yeah, they'd tackle me, and I would just say as much as I can.

That's right. Yeah, that's right. I challenge them to debate. In fact, you know what? Women, pastors, and elders, see if you can find anybody there on campus who will debate me on it.

Does the Bible support or teach women, pastors, and elders? Yeah, I would definitely do that.

Yeah, I've been offering that challenge for 20 years now, off and on, on the radio. Not a single group of individuals has taken me up on it.

I'd love to go out to the Nazarene University there, where you are, and have a formal debate with somebody.

Give me the best they've got. Yeah. That sounds fun. I'll let my dad know about that, and we'll see what we can do.

Yeah. And then you'll get kicked out of the school, because, you know, uh -oh. If that's what

God's will is. If that's what God's will is. That's the right attitude to have. We don't want to get you kicked out, but I got you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. Yeah. Okay. Alright, man. Sounds good.

Alright, man. Thanks so much. I'll be calling you more often now. You have a good one. Alright, buddy. God bless.

Alright. So that's Luciano, and I know it's dad. We stayed with him down there.

My wife and I went down to Phoenix, Arizona area a few years ago, checking out the area to see about moving down there, because they had better medical stuff than my wife.

We never did end up going there, but we made friends, and we stayed at his Airbnb for a couple of weeks.

Real nice family, and great guy. We had dinner over there, and Luciano and his brother, and now he's in college.

And he's Orthodox. He knows what the truth is. Not Orthodox as in Eastern Orthodox, but he's

Orthodox because he knows what the truth is. And he knows about the liberality of within pastors and elders.

And I'll just say this again, that I'll offer a challenge to anybody out there.

Not just some guy off the street, but somebody who, maybe a pastor, or denominational representative, and then debate me publicly with a moderator, does the

Bible support women pastors and elders. I've offered this debate challenge for years, and no one's taken me up on it.

Why is that? What do you think that is? Hey, we'll be right back after these messages.

Please give me a call, 877 -207 -2276. We'll be right back.

It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Alright, everyone, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, we have wide open lines.

The number is 877 -207 -2276.

We have nobody waiting. Let me get to some emails that people send in all the time. How do I reconcile the fact that, based on the genealogy of Jesus in Matthew, he's not the bloodline of David.

For him to be in the bloodline of David, Joseph would have had been his father. Jesus is in the bloodline of Mary.

Am I missing something? No, you're not. But the bloodline from David goes through Mary because both the bloodlines trace themselves back to David and it splits there.

So there is a requirement that,

I'm trying to remember Jesus needed to be from the bloodline of David and that's the case. Now the legal bloodline is through Joseph, the legality.

And so he was adopted and so the legality transfers down to Jesus in the adopted sense. So it's there.

The article I've written on this is on the CARM website. The title is

Why Are There Different Genealogies for Jesus in Matthew 1 and Luke 3. All right, let's get to another one.

Hey Matt, speaking in tongues today I believe is a signed gift. We went over this a little bit, I'll go over it again though. No use today, can you explain briefly, thanks.

So saying there is a signed gift that doesn't need to be for today doesn't mean it's true. A lot of people just say it's a signed gift, there's no need for it today.

Well first of all, how do you know it's a signed gift and why does it not need today? Just saying it doesn't make it so I'm not getting mad at the person who's saying this.

But it's just the issue. So people will say that and I have debated, you know, impromptu, just kind of back and forth discussions about this.

People say, well the tongues are just signed gifts. Well, can you show me that in scripture where they're signed gifts? And can you show me where they're ended?

And then generally speaking they'll go to 1 Corinthians 13, 8 through 12.

And so when I go through that with them, where it says when the perfect comes the imperfect shall pass away, and then

I say what's the perfect? Well, that's the Bible. Well, nothing in the Bible says it's the perfect that comes is the

Bible. And so they're reading into that text as well. I say let's let the scripture interpret scripture because it says then, when the perfect comes, then we'll see face to face and we'll know as we've been fully known.

Well, I did a research, I did research on the term face to face and it always means personal encounter. That's what it means.

Okay, Exodus 32, 30, it says, I saw God face to face and yet my life was spared.

Exodus 33, 11, excuse me, the Lord would speak to Moses face to face as a man speaks with his friend.

Numbers 12, 8, with him I speak face to face, clearly not riddles, talking about God talking to Moses.

Deuteronomy 5, 4, the Lord spoke to you face to face out of the fire in the mountain. So these are encounters. This is how the

Bible talks about the issue. And so I say, well, what about that? You know, it's face to face.

That seems to be a personal encounter. When the Bible is completed, that doesn't mean that that's when you see face to face in the

Bible. Nope. Furthermore, it says, you know, when the perfect comes, then I'll see face to face, then

I'll be known as I'll know as I'm fully known. Well, I did a study on this to be known.

Long story short, Jesus says, John 10, 27, for example, my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me.

Galatians 4, 8, 9, we did not know God back then. Now that you come to know

God or rather are known by God. Romans 8, 29, for those who before knew, he also predestined.

Matthew 7, 21 to 23 goes in and Jesus says, I never knew you get away from me. So the idea here of being known by God means a relationship, reconciled, holy relationship of redemption.

That the Lord says, I know you, means you're saved. It means you're good with him.

He says, I don't know you, it means you're in trouble. So it says in 1 Corinthians 13, 8 through 12, you know, when the perfect comes, then

I'll see face to face, then I will be known as I'm fully known.

And this also suggests personal relationship and intimacy with God. So, I don't believe that the perfect that comes is the

Bible. I believe it's the return of Christ. Why do I say that? Because when you go to 1 Corinthians 1, 7, it says so that you're not lacking any charisma, any charismatic, literally in the

Greek, any charismatic gift awaiting eagerly, the revelation, the apocalypse, and the return of our

Lord Jesus. So you're not to lack any charismatic gift while you're waiting for the return of Christ. So when the perfect comes, the imperfect shall pass away.

That's the return of Christ. So that's why I say that. That's what I believe it is. That's my response to that.

So there, and as a Calvinist, as a five -pointer, amillennial, paedobaptist, non -cessationist, covenantal

Calvinist, this really irks some of my Reformed brethren because they'll say, you cannot hold that position and be

Reformed. Well, I guess John Knox wouldn't be allowed to be in. I could read stuff from John Knox, George Fleming, John Wishart, I think it is, and from these ancient

Presbyterian divines moving in the charismatic gifts. And I've got others. There's other accounts which

I have uncovered in the past year of more people moving in the charismatic gifts documented in their church, church history, stuff like that.

So anyway, look, I think this, this is my opinion. You can accept it. You can reject it.

That's fine. I believe that the Christian church has been gifted with the charismata and that we are to seek them and use them, but not for our own vainglory as so many people on TV do.

You know, hey, let's speak in tongues. It's ridiculous. It's for the edification of the body of Christ and for the furthering of the gospel of God.

And I noticed that when you're out doing that, that's when these things happen. I'll give you one example and we'll get to the colors.

Not that this, I'm not making doctrine out of experience. And this is only one of a few experiences I've had.

And I'm, again, I'm not saying look at me, look at my experience, but these are not hearsays. This is actual stuff that I personally have experienced.

So it's not a hearsay. So I remember once when my buddy Dave, we still know him, you know,

Dave and I used to be roommates and he's on the board of directors now. And we were going to the swap meet back in the day, back in the eighties in Southern California.

And we would, in Anaheim across the 22 freeway, the orange drive -in, which I don't believe is there anymore.

But at any rate, we would go there and open up, we had a booth, did it every week for, you know,

I did it for two and a half years. Okay. Pass out literature, trying to evangelize, that's what we did. All right.

There was this one time, I still remember it very, very clearly. And Dave was sitting in a chair about five feet from me because we're in a booth area five or six feet away.

And we would take turns going up to the, to the tables. We had tracks and gospel messages held down by rocks so the wind wouldn't blow them away.

And this guy comes up. It was my turn to talk. So I went up there and talking to the guy.

And I still remember he's about five foot eight and dark hair. I remember his face. I remember what he looked like, slender,

Caucasian guy. I remember his face. I remember everything about it. And so we're talking for a few minutes, and he was telling me how he used to be a

Christian. And he didn't really believe this or that anymore. And we'd met a lot of people like that out there, just a lot of people.

And we just have conversations with them. It wasn't out of the, out of the norm. But this one time, talking to this guy, all of a sudden,

I just had this knowledge come over me about this guy, and the particular issue that he was dealing with with God, and that God had already spoken to him and had called him to repentance.

This guy was shaken by it, visibly shaken. And he left.

And Dave told me that when this was happening, there was a shimmering presence around me that he saw during that time.

Things like that happen. Hey, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, and welcome back to the show. We have two open lines, 877 -207 -2276.

Let's get to Andrew from Maryland. Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Mr. Slick, thanks so much for your ministry.

I've listened to you for a long time, and I just want to say thank you for all your hard work. I've listened to your debates and lectures, and I actually have listened to your

Roman series on YouTube. And I have to say, I had to listen to Romans chapter five at least three or four times to finally let that sink in.

So thank you. Yeah, there's some good stuff in there. It's a pivotal chapter in the

Bible, theologically. And this is very off topic, but I just wanted to thank you for presenting that in such a well -thought -out way.

Now 12 through 19 is just one of my favorite sections, and it's a go -to text, so I just really appreciate that.

Thank you. Good. I'm sorry to get to the question.

I apologize. I hope your family's doing well, and I'm praying for you and everything. My question is about being a

Reformed Five -Point Calvinist believer. It's on the topic of general revelation in terms of saving knowledge.

Obviously I believe that, you know, God has graciously revealed Himself progressively through time to Abraham and stuff like that.

Romans chapter one says we're all in condemnation for not worshiping the true God. Ephesians 2 verse 12 says that we had no hope prior to the engrafting of the

Gentiles into the vine. How would, in reading the

Old Testament, we come across a character, Jethro, Moses' father -in -law, and he's described as a high priest.

He seems to be aware of God's divine name. He seems to be, he seems to give good advice to Moses, but how would you kind of describe, if Jethro was saved, how did he get saved?

How does that kind of all work out when, you know, we don't have like clear evidence of, you know, the

Midianites being God followers? Well, God, there's a saying

I heard once that I like, God casts His net farther than we do. And if Jethro was saved, it's because God had granted him faith.

And so I don't know off the top of my head if he was or wasn't. I have to go through and read because it's out of Exodus, I believe, two and a little research here.

So other than that, I couldn't tell you exactly. You always got to read and see if there's a little statement like, yet he did not repent, you know, or, and thus he's with them, you know, whatever it is in the context of what's going on.

So I'm not sure. Absolutely. And I don't want to take up too much of your time or anything like that.

But, you know, obviously, you know, a prevalent thought in, unfortunately, in Christianity today is that somehow someone could be saved without knowledge of the one true

God. So basically, it's like a form of partial universalism. Oh, they were very good veil worshipers.

So God kind of graded them on a curve, so to speak. But let's let's back it up. Could a baby in the womb who's killed in abortion, could that baby go to heaven?

I would say yes. Yeah. And they didn't have a confession of faith that we're aware of, you know.

So I think in a technical sense, yeah, it's true. It can happen. Normatively speaking, no, it's not true.

Right. Okay, well, thank you very much for your time.

And I hope you have a great night. Sure, man. God bless. Glad you've been listening.

Appreciate it. All right. Oh, absolutely. Okay. All right.

Now let's get to Patrick from North Carolina. Patrick, welcome. You're on the air. Hello, Matt.

It's me, Patrick. I was gonna ask you a question about last night's caller on how sins are forgiven.

I know you believe that the Colossians 214, the certificate of debt was nailed to the cross.

Now, did everybody have a certificate of debt nailed to the cross? No. Jesus nailed the certificate of debt.

It's it's a way of Paul saying that the sin debt was nailed to the cross in the person of Christ.

Right. So would that be everybody? I mean, on earth had a certificate of debt because we all sin.

Yeah, not everybody's sin is paid for. Now, that's heresy to a lot of people who are listening, going, what? What do you say?

And the logic is simple. Jesus says in John 10, 11, he says he lays his life down.

I think let me check. I want to make sure I get these right. John 10, 11. He says,

I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays his life down for the sheep. And then verse 26 of John 10, you do not believe because you're not my sheep.

So if he lays his life down for the sheep, he says, you're not my sheep. But he didn't lay his life down for them. That's one brief thing.

But there's also logic errors. Because if the sin that is canceled for everybody ever lived, no sin could be held to anybody's account.

Then how then could they go to hell without any sin? That's that's their account.

See, that's a problem. Well, what if the certificate of debt was for everybody on earth, but the certificate was blank?

There was nothing written yet because we haven't been born and we haven't been able to sin.

But as we sin, God keeps track of our sins with that certificate. And at the judgment seat, he takes a certificate and looks at it and he knows all our sins.

Would that be a possible thing? That's kind of like Seventh -day Adventist theology with the investigative judgment.

No, it's not how it works. God has elected people from the foundation of the world before the universe existed.

This is Ephesians 1, 4 and 5. He chose us in him before the foundation of the world that we'd be holy and blameless in love.

He predestined us to adoption as sons of Jesus Christ to himself. So this is what the Bible teaches.

So that's Calvinism, because you know, you were elected before the beginning of time.

That's scripture. I just quoted you scripture. If you call that Calvinism, then so be it. But that's

Ephesians 1, 4 and 5. I just quoted it. Okay, so the certificate, our sins are forgiven at the cross.

I've heard you say that your future sins are already forgiven. Is that true? No, I never say they're already forgiven.

I say the sin that is canceled. People don't listen to when I say this. They say,

Oh, canceled means it's forgiven. I didn't say that. There's three aspects to this, the sin that's canceled, the now and the not yet, and justification by faith.

There's these three aspects. So how does a Calvinist get their sins forgiven?

By faith in Christ. So the minute you were born again, every sin you ever done will be forgiven.

You don't have to repent anymore. Every sin

I've done, this is what I believe, that Christ bore the sin of the elect and only the elect.

The sin that's canceled. He did this 2000 years ago, and the elect are still being born and being saved and granted faith,

Philippians 129, because they've been predestined. This is Romans 8, 29 and 30.

And this is, you know, as many as had been appointed to eternal life, believed, Acts 13, 48. When we believe is when we're justified.

Justification occurs by belief, Romans 3, 28, Romans 4, 5, Romans 5, 1.

So that's what it is. Now, the now and the not yet is this issue of Jesus 2000 years ago was his now, but our not yet.

Yet, back 2000 years ago, he bore our sin in his body in the cross, 1 Peter 2, 24.

So we had even committed any sins yet because we weren't even alive. But yet our sins, future sins to him, in that perspective, were imputed to Christ.

He died with them. This is just biblical theology. Okay. So yeah, but the question is, is how does a person know that they're elect?

I mean, what's your evidence? The evidence is 1 John 5, 13 says these things are written. So you may know you have eternal life.

Only the elect will have eternal life. And you can know you do. So how do you know you do? Well, you believe in the things that God has revealed.

And you trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, God in flesh, second person of the Trinity died in the cross, rose from the dead justification by faith alone in Christ alone.

All these things are taught in Scripture. And these are the things that the unbeliever cannot receive. 1 Corinthians 2, 14. Okay. How does a disciple in Christ know that they're not elect?

A disciple in Christ, how they know they're not elect, they wouldn't be a disciple if they were not elect. So everybody who believes in Jesus will be saved.

And so there is really no election. That's what it means to be elected to be chosen.

He chose us in him before the foundation of the world, Ephesians 1, 4. That's what election is God choosing us.

That's what it is. That's election. It's right there. First, in Ephesians 1, 4, he chose us in him before the foundation of the world.

Acts 13, 48, as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed

God's one who grants that we have faith. Philippians 1, 29. You cannot come to Christ unless it's granted to you from the

Father. John 6, 65. I quote these things to people all the time. They go, you're Calvinist.

And I'm saying, all I'm doing is quoting the Scripture. This is what you see you respond with. It must be

Calvinism must be biblical because it's what the Scriptures are teaching. Well, the better way to say it is anybody that's been baptized with the

Holy Spirit by Jesus is elect. Not with the words that Scripture because John the

Baptist preached the one who comes after me will baptize with the Holy Spirit. And so that would be an easier way to explain election.

Otherwise, people think that they may not go to heaven because they're not. Hold on, we got a break. We got a break. Hold on.

Okay. Hold on, buddy. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages with Patrick. We've had many discussions with him.

And stay tuned to get interesting. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, we're back on the air the last segment of the hour. If you want to give me a call, all you gotta do is dial 877 -207 -2276.

Let's get back on with Patrick. Are you still there, buddy? Yeah, I'm here. Okay. So where were you?

Well, my question to you is, you know, you're not just a Calvinist, you're a five point Calvinist.

That's what a Calvinist is. But that's not in the Bible. None of that's in the

Bible. Calvinism or five point Calvinism. Yes, it is. I have it taught from Scripture.

I even have an article where Jesus taught all the points. He taught election. He taught predestination.

He taught justification by faith. All this stuff, yeah. Yeah. And Jesus said, you must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven and you must be born of water and spirit to enter the kingdom of heaven.

So I believe that when you're baptized with the Holy Spirit, you're drinking that living water because you have tears from repentance.

And that happened to you when you were saved in your testimony. You cried like a baby. Isn't that true?

No, I didn't cry like a baby, cry like a man. But you did cry tears. You did cry tears.

You can't deny that according to your testimony. Patrick, so you teach that baptism is crying tears, right?

Yes. I don't believe in water baptism because only John baptized with water because John said,

I baptize with water, only him, but the one coming after him will baptize with the Holy Spirit.

Wait a minute, they didn't baptize with water in the New Testament after stuff that you're saying?

Right. John the Baptist was the only one who baptized with water. If you want to get into a deeper topic is at Cornelius's house,

Peter made a mistake and should have never water baptized the Gentiles because they had already received the

Holy Spirit. So let me get this straight. You just said no one ever baptized in water.

And then you said, then here's a place where they baptize in water. So you just contradicted yourself. Peter, but he made a mistake.

That's the reason. Paul was chosen to go to the Gentiles to correct Peter's mistake.

Oh, and so how do you know what Peter, the apostle called by Jesus, how do you know he made a mistake?

How are you judging him? Because in Acts 10, 48, where the

Gentiles had received the Holy Spirit, Peter said, what stops these men from getting water? Peter was referring to the old custom ceremonial washing, which was a, which, you know, that don't count.

And it wasn't a believer's baptism. And for that reason, Paul opposed Peter in Galatians 2, 14.

It says that they were believers. It says the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed because the gift of the

Holy Spirit on the Gentiles for the Gentiles were speaking in tongues and exalting God. That means they're believers. Right.

At Cornelius's house, they were saved when they were baptized with the Holy Spirit. They didn't need no water.

And you've kind of actually, you've made a, you know, you say that in Acts 2, 38, it's almost impossible for Jesus to, or Peter to water baptize people because he would have froze in water or he had a hyperthermia.

No, that's the logistics of how many and how long. But look, dude, look, we've had this discussion so many times before, man, you know, your monkeys swing up in the wrong tree.

Well, I'm trying to teach you something because at Acts 2, 38, they were baptized with the

Holy Spirit. That's why 2000 people were baptized that day. Look, man,

Jesus, I wish you just repent and believe the truth of God.

No, I wish you would repent for being a Calvinist because Calvinism teaches that everybody isn't saved, only certain people.

That's correct. Calvinism does teach that there are people going to hell. That's correct. Right. And I believe you're one of them because you were saved when you were in your testimony.

The day you were saved, you cried tears of living water. You were saved. But when you turned into a

Calvinist, you lost your salvation. So I'm trying to help you. So let me get this straight.

So when I became a Calvinist, which teaches that man is sinful in all areas of what he is, he's touched by sin and he needs the grace of God on him.

That the work of God to change us, make us born again is

God's work that he does within us. That Jesus bore the sin of the people given to him by the father for redemption.

That the election of people is not based on how good they are, anything God sees in them.

And that we persevere because of God's grace upon us. You mean when I believe all those things, that means

I lose my salvation? Well, listen, John, John Kelvin had

Michael Cervantes killed because he didn't believe in their doctrine. No, he didn't.

Yes, he did. Yes, he did. It's in the books. Excuse me, he did not. He risked his life and went back into France to Servetus and said to him, don't come to Geneva, they'll kill you.

And Calvin risked his life to tell Servetus that. Calvin was on the governance committee, or I don't know if the committee is the right word.

And so the law of the land was at that point that there would be executions for heresy. And he actually tried to get

Servetus not killed. It's just a common misnomer that people say all the time.

No, because research like you, you don't do your research. John Kelvin didn't want him burned to the cross or burnt to the stake.

He wanted him hung instead. And they did hang him. Yeah. So. So, look,

Patrick, let me ask you, do you believe Jesus Christ is God in flesh? No, I don't.

I believe that. All right. The answer is no. The word became Jesus. Do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead in the same body he died in?

That was a glorified body. No, the son of God died on the cross and rose to the word of God.

Jesus today is the word of God. OK, so you deny the resurrection of Christ, you deny the deity of Christ.

Is God a trinity, father, son, Holy Spirit? No, trinity doesn't exist because the

Lord's Prayer and John 316 do not. So the answer is no. I don't need explanations.

I just said, do you believe it answers? No, you don't. You don't believe the trinity, the deity of Christ. You don't believe in this physical resurrection.

Do you believe we're justified by faith alone in Christ alone? Yes. You've got to have faith.

Yes. No faith in baptism. Water. OK, so the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

So hold on. So I said faith alone in Christ alone. That's what I said. So do you affirm that?

No, if you believe in faith alone, you don't need Jesus because all you need is faith. OK.

All right. And Christ, that's what it is. Faith alone in Christ. And that's what I said. So let me, Patrick, let me tell you, you are not a believer.

You're not a Christian. You're not redeemed. You don't know what's going on. You have the doctrines of demons flowing out of your very lips.

You deny who God is. You deny who Christ is. You deny the crucifixion resurrection. You deny the doctrine of justification by faith alone in Christ alone.

If you were to die right now, you would be damned. And I don't want that for you. You've called in.

We've had many conversations over the years in different venues. The Bible says, do not complain about the speck in one other eye, but you've got a timber in your eye and you're talking about my speck.

And the Bible also says in 1 Corinthians 2 .15 that we can make spiritual judgments. Since you have denied who

Christ is, I'm just informing you that your state right now is one of damnation.

And you need to repent. Your status right now is you're damned. And nothing but the mercy of God is allowing you to continue to breathe and your blasphemies against him.

His graciousness to you is incredible. I'm telling you, you're in trouble. You need to repent and ask Jesus. Well, last night you were condemning the

Catholics again, and that's not good. No, it is good to condemn the Catholic theology, which adds work to salvation, which teaches a false priesthood and has a false

Mary. Well, I think you're wrong about that. Because the

Catholic Church is a Christian church, and there are a lot of Christians in the

Catholic Church because it's the biggest Christian church in the world. True. There are a lot of Christians in there, but they're not

Christians because of Catholicism but in spite of it. Official Roman Catholic theology is Antichrist. Okay.

No, because I believe the Catholic Church, they believe in the baptism of the

Holy Spirit in order to be saved, and you believe that yourself also. No, they teach that.

You can't be saved without the baptism of the Holy Spirit. That's Mark 16, 16.

For those who believe and are baptized will be saved. But those who don't believe are not saved.

It doesn't say those who are. It does not say those who do not get baptized are saved. You should read the whole context. The Roman Catholic Church adds work to salvation and says in paragraph 268 of the

Catechism, you attain salvation by faith, baptism, and the observance of the commandments. So it teaches a false gospel.

Yeah, but Matt, you have to understand, you're the hardest working Christian I know because you yourself say, oh,

I'm tired. I've got so much work to do. Yeah, I do. I know it, and that's wrong.

You need to spend time with your family. I'm telling you, spend time with your family.

I do. I do. Yeah, I don't want to get personal, but I'm telling you, you talk about working for your salvation.

You yourself, like I said, you say, oh, God, I'm so tired. I have to work. It's a little same vein like that.

I do. I'm 68. I work a great deal because there's such a huge need and we're trying to fix it that I can get off underneath the burden of all the other stuff

I have to do. We're working through that right now. But here's the thing. I do take breaks and all that kind of stuff, and that's just my personal life, spend time with the wife and everything.

But I'm just telling you, I do a lot, okay? But I also know my theology exceedingly well. You're not a

Christian. The Roman Catholic Church is not a Christian. The Orthodox Church is not a Christian. You don't need to write any articles.

I'm telling you, you do not need to write any more articles. You've written over 4 ,000 articles.

Yes, that's true. Yeah, about 4 ,500. Closer to 5 ,000. A lot of them aren't really that deep, so we removed a lot of dictionary entries.

Yeah, I know. You've got to be careful. What's Carm going to do when you retire?

Is Charlie going to take over? No, he's older than I am.

Yeah, but that's a good question for you. What are you going to do when you retire? I already have it set who's going to take it over.

And what are going to happen to all your documents? Are they going to be put into a book? No, the person who takes it over will have access to all that stuff.

It says, do not add to the Word, and you add to the Word. No, I don't. You take away from the Word of God. You give personal interpretation.

I give biblical stuff, and I quote Scripture, just like I did with you when I quoted Ephesians 1 -4, and you said that's

Calvinism. And you say Calvinism is not in the Bible. But the funny thing is, when I quote Scripture, you say it's Calvinism.

I guess the Bible supports Calvinism in your mind. Calvinism is not in the Bible. It's not?

You mean the predestination of God's not there? The election of God's not there? The atonement of Christ? The election of Jesus saying, you must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven, that's when you're elected.

That's not what election is. That's not what election is. Yes, it is. You don't have all your pause in the litter.

The one who comes after me baptizes with the Holy Spirit. Pat, you don't have all your pause in the litter box, your monkey's swinging from the wrong tree, and your crescent wrench doesn't tighten.

I'm just telling you, you've got some problems here. You don't know biblical theology, and I've only let you stay on because I want people to understand that there are true

Christ deniers out there, and you're one of them. I deal with people like you all the time. I know,

I listen to you. Last night you were putting down that Catholic. No, I was putting down Catholicism.

He himself said that you were getting rude. He was being obstreperous.

Look, guy, we've got to get going. We've got about 20 seconds left on the show, okay? Okay, well, thanks again. I appreciate you taking my call.

All right, Patrick, talk to you later. Have a good night, and kiss your wife goodnight. Okay, later tonight maybe.

So, folks, Pat and I have had many conversations over many years in different venues, and I just heard her radio.

Yeah, he's lost. I need to pray for him that he'll repent. Anyway, folks, there you go. I'm out of time.

There's the music right about there, and may the Lord bless you, and by His grace, we're back on here tomorrow.

We'll talk to you then. Pray for Patrick, and pray for me as well, and my wife. I'm still trying to get her on the air.

I'm still trying to get her to come on the air with me and talk about her stuff. Anyway, may the Lord bless you. By His grace, we'll talk to you tomorrow.