Church attendance

Open Air Theology

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All right, we are live. Welcome to Open Air Theology. My name is Jeff.

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I'm the pastor of Covenant Reformed Baptist Church here in Tallahoma, Tennessee, and I also have a

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YouTube channel where this will be airing on. It's called My Two Cents with Jeff Rice. I'm also a co -owner of Post Tenderbreast Luxe Bible Rebinding and co -owner of Post Tenderbreast Luxe Beard Care.

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So if you need your Bible rebound or if you need some medicine for your beard, please contact your boy.

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And I'm gonna pass it over to my good friend Greg to introduce himself. Yeah, so my name is

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Greg Mooring, Jr. as you can see there on the screen. I am actually the former pastor of Hagerman Valley Baptist Church where Brayden is currently the pastor.

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I was right there before him. He is a dear brother of mine, and I counted an honor and a joy to to fill in for him.

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You know, maybe I'll get to come in where I'm not having to fill in for him. But yeah,

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I live currently, my wife and five kids and I, we live in Central Florida in technically, it's a unincorporated community called

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Donavista. For those that are in southern Idaho, it's kind of like a step up from Hollister.

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So for Ray and Teresa, while you're, I know you're supposed to be watching, so. But you know,

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I work from home for the company that I've been working with close to four years now that I was working at when

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I was pastoring Valley Baptist. And I'm actually a native of Florida.

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I'm not one of those who just show up here because their states were locked down for two years.

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Now, are you one of those guys that we would read about on Facebook or in the newspaper about the

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Florida man, right? Those guys? No, and actually there's something funny about Florida man.

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The only reason that that happens, because Florida's got such an open like record book for that stuff, that they've got to fill the time somehow.

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So people are like Florida man, look it up. So that's the way you hear about Florida man. It's because we do it to ourselves.

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But yeah, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't hit that level yet. Okay, well,

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I like the yet part. So I had posted on Facebook that I was looking for someone, you know, that was willing to come on here and have a conversation with me.

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And Greg hit me up privately and wanted to come on.

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And we had, you know, communicated on Facebook Messenger here and there and stuff like that and talked about doing some stuff with eschatology.

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Him and I would differ a little bit when it comes to eschatology. And so it was going to have kind of like a roundtable with me, him and Braden and just have a, you know, cordial conversation.

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And so he contacted me and I was like, yeah, man, this sounds great. I'd love to have you on. And, and I brought up the topic about church attendance and he was game and I was game.

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So I really think it's a, it's a good topic being that I've been, excuse me, preaching through Hebrews and I just got done preaching the text about in Hebrews.

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Let me turn to it real quick. I'll just touch on it before we get, get started.

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Hebrews chapter 10 verse 24 where it says, not neglecting to meet together as some, but encouraging one another all the more as you see the day draw near.

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Now we don't have to touch on that text at the moment, but I brought this to his attention because this is something that's, you know, it's been on my heart recently.

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I'm going through Hebrews. I'm seeing the writer of Hebrews, you know, call out to these people to, to continue to trust

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Christ. Do not forsake him. Do not go back to the temple. He is sufficient.

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He, his sacrifice is the only sacrifice that we need.

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And, and yet people did not trust in the sufficiency of Christ and they found themselves running back to the temple.

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And it just, it just really made me start thinking about, you know, church today in our context.

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Right. And so I wanted to have this conversation and he was game. So here we are.

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Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's especially in our, I would say in our current time, we're still, still certainly feeling the effects.

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Why? I don't know. Especially when it comes to church attendance with COVID -19.

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Yeah. So first question, and I'll just ask and I'll, and we can rip off each other on it, but, but how important is it that we gather together?

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Christians, you know, how important is it for those that profess faith in Jesus Christ? How important is it for us to gather together?

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I would say it's important enough. It's so important that you defy your governor during lock, when, when they command you to lock your church down, that you defy them.

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And maybe even openly, because the King of Kings himself has said, as you just read, you know,

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Hebrews 10 25, it's actually, and I've got a little thing just for some texts to handle, but we see, you know,

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Hebrews 10 25, it says, or in 24 again, it says, let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

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It's what it says. So if he says it.

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Now, there's no way I can make this mean something else. No, I mean, you could, you know, if you're looking out, you know, if you're just playing with the text, but if you know, you're just reading it, it's, it's the hermeneutical gymnastics that you've got to go through to, to do this.

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And hi, Eric. But to, you know, to, to do anything other than what it says, to really try to make it to do be anything else than what it says is it's a twisting of scripture.

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You're Satan is your homeboy. And I just, it's, it's too important.

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It is, you know, in the common parlance of 2020, it is essential. It is an essential service for the

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Christian. So I take it that you didn't shut down during COVID? No.

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Now that that's not to say that it was easy. And it was tough, you know, and internally, you know, but it's, you know, because, because especially at that point, having to reassess what

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Romans 13 even means, because, you know, by and large, we've not had to in this country really consider the, what it means to obey

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God and defy a tyrant, because it's not, we just haven't had that issue.

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But I've already, so I already like, I watched way too much.

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I mean, way too many politics already. I'm like, way up in it, have been since middle school.

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And I've kind of have a distrust for information that I'm given.

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And something back in 2020, just did not sound right, didn't smell right.

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And my suspicions in many ways have proven true. I think I probably made plenty of comments, off the cuff comments during that time while preaching.

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In fact, prior to us not shutting down,

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I actually had preached out of Habakkuk 220, which says, you know, the earth is in His holy temple, let all the earth be silent before Him.

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Not really knowing, you know, not knowing really what is, what was going to happen.

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That if maybe my suspicions weren't true, maybe this really was going to be something on the level of the

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Spanish flu pandemic. Maybe it was actually going to be something that was going to be like tuberculosis is every single year.

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That we don't ever talk about because it happens in Africa and not in America. But that, you know, nonetheless, when you consider the wickedness of our land, and the wickedness of our world, and especially in our land to the tune of 60 million unborn babies, that, you know, 60 million pre -born image bearers who have been violently slaughtered in the womb, and yet we want to sing

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God bless America. I don't think God's gonna really do that.

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And then, of course, now we're in, you know, that month that where we, you know, co -opt the sign of the

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Noahic Covenant and celebrate, you know, a sinful lifestyle that got an entire city incinerated.

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That we, I didn't know what was going to happen.

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I'm not a prophet nor the son of a prophet. But what I did know, and this was the thing that, this was the struggle that I went through, and I wasn't the only,

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I wasn't the only pastor, we weren't the only church, but we were one of the few that did this in southern

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Idaho, and likely throughout the country. That I look back to men like Martin Luther, and then also look over the course of 2 ,000 years of church history, and say, this isn't the first time something like this has happened.

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And what has the church done? It's met for worship. And I look actually at, you know,

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King David's example when he took the census, and where he was, you know, willing to, where he was said, when

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God gave him the option, well, we could either have you, you can have a plague, you can run for your life again, or we can have an invasion.

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Go with it, David. And his response was, I would rather fall into the hands of the

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Lord than the hands of men. And so for me, it's like, you know, we're going, we're going to look, we're going to reassess and actually look back to God's law.

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God's law gives us explanation of, you know, if somebody's ill, you know, the leper was to be the one going unclean, unclean, unclean.

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Everybody wasn't presumed to be a leper. And so if you have an issue, stay home.

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It's one the Bible says, let's do that. And so, you know, for me, my own eternal struggle was you're dealing with this, but then really come down to two things.

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The fourth commandment in Hebrews 10, 25, don't forsake the gathering of yourselves together.

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At that point, God has spoken. Who was

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Brad Little, the governor of Idaho? Who was he when his king has said otherwise?

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And, you know, and we were for, I don't know how many weeks it was, you know, for many weeks there in Hagerman, we were the only church open.

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Continued, I was in the midst of preaching through the book of John that actually prayed and finished for me.

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You know, I preached, I think through half the book and then Braden finished the other half of the book. So unbeknownst to us, we, you know, we tag teamed the book, but continued preaching expositionally through the book of John until, you know, it just, you know, that's just kind of how it was.

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Now that doesn't mean that we care, that everything stayed as normal because it wasn't a normal time. And I don't think it would be the, you know, the appropriate biblical

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Christian thing to consider, especially after having preached Habakkuk 220, that I don't know what

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God is doing. You know, I have no idea. You know,

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I didn't have John Hagee on a moon telling me what was going on. But, you know,

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I didn't know. That was a dig, by the way. But, you know,

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I didn't, I didn't know what was going on. So, you know, we did as a church, we did cut back on some things.

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But those things were just like, this is the essential stuff of like, if there's only things that are going to be met, we're going to meet for the

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Lord's day, and we're going to meet for prayer. And especially with Southern Idaho being

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Mormon, you know, overwhelmingly Mormon. And the Mormons, because apparently their

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God is so weak, that he is so ignorant, that he couldn't tell their prophet anything.

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Maybe, maybe, you know, the Heavenly Father of Mormonism was like Baal and was caught on the toilet during COVID.

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I don't know. But my thought, too, is we're in the midst of something as historic as this.

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Whatever it is, whatever God has ordained to come to pass with this incident, you know, with this, why aren't we, as believers, meeting together?

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There could, you know, there could very well be, you know, I don't know, there very well could be

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Mormons who are now, they don't have anywhere to go. They meet on the

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Lord's day. They don't meet for the Lord, but they do meet on the Lord's day, that maybe, just maybe, they might wander in.

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You know, you've got people who at a time are afraid of death, so much so that they drive around with a thing on their face, that why wouldn't we be open?

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We have the only message, especially in that town, you know, where the

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Christian witness isn't really huge. I mean, there were some other, you know, there's two other churches that I would certainly call them

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Christian. I would say that we would definitely differ on some stuff, but would consider them brothers, but overwhelmingly it's

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Mormon, you know, either, you know, the number one Mormon or the other sect of Mormonism, the number two thing.

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So what about right now? What about right now, you know, where I wouldn't, you know, for the most part, you know,

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America is open, you know, churches are open, but the attendance is down.

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What do you think God's message for us is?

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Like, I just feel like he's kind of, you know, shifting the sand, if you will.

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He's separating sheeps from goats, and not the final separation, but, you know, like it seems very obvious, you know.

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If you profess to be a Christian, and it's safe, and you know it's safe,

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I mean, you're hanging out at the mall, you're going to the movies, you're going to a concert, and you refuse to gather together on the

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Lord's Day, it's safe. I think it's safe to say that you're not serious about your relationship with Christ, because you're not serious with your relationship with the body, the

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Bride of Christ. Right. I mean, I say this gets back to what

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Augustine and Calvin both said, and I agree with this. When I went to school at the Buddha Bible Institute, their online program, and I figured which class it was, but there was a class where we actually got to read

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Calvin in class, and I was like, fantastic, I already have the book on my shelf, and I got to actually look at the quote out of the chapter, and I was like, okay, let me actually look at the whole thing, because I have access to the whole thing, and it was, you know, quoting a thing from Augustine, where it says that if the church is not your mother,

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God is not your father, and there were people like, oh, I'm like, hold on, let's consider who

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Calvin is. First off, he's a reformer. He's not talking about Roman Catholicism. Augustine wasn't talking about Roman Catholicism, because Roman Catholicism didn't exist when

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Augustine was around, but they're right. They're absolutely right, that if you profess to say that God is your father, and yet the very bride of Christ, that you're not getting sustenance from her, that you are not submissive to her, is he really your father, you know, or are you a bastard?

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Yeah. You know, because it would seem to be that, and you can't, it's like this, if my kids go out of their way to disrespect their mother, my relationship between me and my children does not overcome the relationship

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I have with my wife. Correct. Their mother is my wife first, and likewise, that if, you know, so if they're disrespecting my wife, their mother, there's things that are gonna happen, and likewise, if you're saying, well,

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God is my father, you know, the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord, and yet you do not submit to the church.

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Now, let's be clear about this, we're not talking of, you know, I'm a Baptist, so I'm not talking about a hierarchical structure.

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What I'm talking about is the local body of Christ that finds its representation in the eldership, you know, in its presbytery, on the local side, and you know, the actual elders of the church, and you know, the deaconate, and the laity.

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That's the church, and that is how our Lord Jesus has structured it as a, you know,

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I've been, you know, as an individual embassy of the kingdom in a locale.

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If you cannot submit to that family, that structure, and you can get away with it to where God is not reprimanding you at all, and directing you back into the church.

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I mean, Hebrews is pretty clear about that, that, you know, don't despise the discipline of the

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Lord, because the Lord chastises whom he loves. If he doesn't chastise you, you ain't his kid.

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Right, so as y 'all know that I do street ministry, so I set up probably a block away from our church.

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There's a little four -way, and there's a nice empty parking lot where I'm able to set up, and I'll set up probably three, four, or five signs, you know, that represent our church,

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Covenant Reformed Baptist Church, and the last time I was out there, a gentleman parked across the street, and he starts walking over towards me, and like you can tell this guy was rough.

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Like, I didn't know if he was gonna shake my hand or punch me. Like, it was just kind of like, it was a 50 -50, right? Those are the best times.

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Yeah, yeah, and he's walking like he's, you know, like he's a little upset, and you know, and listen, dude's short stocky, and he jacked up, and the first thing he said to me is, why are you

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Baptists? Why are you letting man depict what you are?

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And I started to answer, and then I kind of, you know, his attitude was, you know, like just being around him, like you can just tell he like, like he was angry, and I said, before I answer that question, let me ask you something.

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Do you have a problem with me? I said, because you're walking over here like you have a problem with me.

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He said, oh no, no, no, no, you know, like, you know, he kind of toned it down just a little bit.

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I said, I'll happily tell you why I'm a Baptist, but first you need to calm down. Right.

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Calm down, brother. You know, I can't be explaining things if I'm gonna worry about you punching me in the face, and so I just basically walked through, you know, the

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Protestant Reformation. I explained to him why I was a Baptist. I explained to him that when you see the word

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Baptist on a church, that that means that they, that that local body of congregation believes that in order to be baptized, you need to be a believer.

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I said, so that's what Baptist means, you know, but he calmed down, and then he told me, he said, yeah,

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I'm a Christian. I just don't go to church, and I related to what, like right at that moment,

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I hear Paul Washer in my head, and that quote from him, and I said, sir, you know what you just told me?

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He said, what? I said, hold on. Before I say that, let me just say it like this. What if I said, are you married? He said, yes.

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I said, what if I told you, man, I really like you, but your wife, I can't stand that woman, and he looked at me.

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I said, that's what you're doing, and the whole time I hear Paul, that quote by Paul Washer. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and he was like,

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I guess you're right. Like his whole, like everything about him changed.

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Like he's never had, I guess, a Christian man to stand up to him in the first place, and put him in his place, and then use logic to show him, but it was just really funny, and so I really called his

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Christianity into question, which brings me to my next question, and so like I hate to put it out here like this.

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I okay, first off, I've been kissed on the ear by a drunk, so everything else after that is totally normal.

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Totally normal, yeah. You know, doing evangelism and getting kissed by a drunk. Yeah, yeah,

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I've been there. Sloppy, wet, beer kiss. Yeah, like.

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Can a person be a Christian without being a part of the body of Christ?

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Kind of this whole, you know, the old gospel country song, me and Jesus got our own thing going.

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Me and Jesus got it all worked out, and we don't need anybody to tell us what it's all about.

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So apart from, I get it. We're not saved by the church, but can an individual be a

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Christian and not be a part of the local church? Now, I would say yes if there's no local church around.

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Yeah, and that would be. I know it's a tough question. This is where we got to, you know, parse things.

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You know, it depends on how we're trying to, what we're trying to answer, okay?

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Yeah. So in the ultimate sense, no, absolutely not, because as Braden puts down there, that it is, to be a

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Christian is to be a part of the body of Christ.

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You know, and this is, you know, we're, you know, the Protestant distinction between the visible and invisible church. So ultimately, no, it is absolutely impossible to be a

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Christian and not be a part of the church. Now, on the local level, when we start getting into the, when we start getting into that matter of the local body, of the visible representation, the local visible representation, the redeemed remnant in a locale, you have, especially in this country,

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I say in this country, we have absolutely no excuse. None whatsoever.

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You know, you may have the brother or the sister who's in the middle of, you know, only the

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Lord knows where, and there's not a church within 300 miles.

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However, this is where I'll say this. I've been to before, and I have known

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Haitians on foot, walk one way, you know, the old adage of, you know,

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I walked up, you know, 20 miles one way, you know, uphill in the snow, both ways, barefoot, you know, and with gangrene, you know, it happened every time, you know, that the,

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I've known of Haitian believers to walk, to go where they needed to go to get to church.

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So if you have, I'll say this, if you have a prolonged behavior where you are persistently not engaged in the church, and you can do that without God getting on your case,

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I have, I will, again, this is where I will come down and say,

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I'm not the Holy Spirit, but if I've got to make an assessment right now at this moment,

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I would rather say, you're not a Christian, and you best check it. You had better get to your

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Bible, and you had better get to prayer, and find out whether or not you actually are in the faith.

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But what if I'm watching on YouTube? I want to throw a shoe at you.

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Now, let's be clear that we're not talking about the person who is homebound, okay?

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Let's be clear about this. We're not talking about the homebound believer who

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We're talking about those who are able but unwilling, who don't want to put on pants.

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That's what it comes down to. They're able to go. They're unwilling. Yes, that for them, not wearing britches is more important than Jesus.

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It's the person who is, you know, again, the homebound person that's always been within the context of the church, you know, throughout history.

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The diaconate in the past, I think it was in, I don't know if it was

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Justin Martyr who wrote about it, or that, you know, they would talk about how deacons would go, and they would take the

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Lord's Supper to the, you know, the invalids, the ones who could not attend church.

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It's like this. When Paul tells him, you know, he writes, it's in 2

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Thessalonians, I think, where it says, if a man's unwilling to work, he shouldn't eat. Correct. If a man is unwilling to go to church, you know, whatever he shouldn't eat, you know, means in that context, that's how

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I would apply it. You know, because if you can't get up, or if there's, it's a difference between can and will.

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If it's a lack of ability, we do what we can as the church to accommodate those people.

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And I think that, you know, in this day and age, you know, when you have the invalid, you have the person who's homebound, we make every effort to, especially, you know, we can use technology, whether that's through CDs, if you still happen to make tape, you know, cassette tapes, you know, that or through a live stream, something like that, which

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I would actually, I'm of the persuasion that a live stream almost should be password protected.

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I actually, when I was at Moody, I did, I had, we had to deal with this question.

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This is two, I graduated in 2017. That the question of online service, is it church?

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I'm like, no, it's not. And this is way before COVID hits. I'm like, no, it is not.

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It is not a replacement for being in with the body.

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If you can be, if you can be and you are not, if that is how you're going to persist,

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I actually would say that it's incumbent upon the church to begin, you know, looking and by again, by the church,

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I'm meaning everyone from the laity up, you know, or just to confront the person who is unwilling to go to church and to confront them in their sin, going that actually what you're doing here is sinful because the

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Lord has commanded we are supposed to be here. Acts 242 kind of lays it, lays it down, you know, real, real quick of what those who received the

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Holy Spirit received the word and were baptized did. They devoted themselves to the teachings of the apostles.

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Yeah. Fellowship, breaking of bread and prayers. Yep. Right. Like that's, go ahead.

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Okay. So I hope you laughed, you know, in scorn when you had

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Fauci talking about having Thanksgiving via FaceTime.

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What is that? That is not Thanksgiving. That's stupid.

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That's stupid. Yeah, but, but yet churches are willing.

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There have been like, let's have a virtual Lord's Supper and especially if we actually look at, you know, you talk about Acts 242 and we look at the pattern of the

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New Testament church and we look at the early church prior, you know, to somewhere in the 300s, you know, when we were, you know, when we weren't afraid of having our heads cut off or being thrown to lions anymore, the

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Lord's Supper was a potluck. People were getting together. They were, you know, to meet for church was meeting in somebody's home.

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You need to come to our church and check it out. We have a real meal after every, every, every, every service, every service.

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We have the Lord's Supper and then we have a real meal around the table. And it's not potluck. It's, you know, it's organized, an organized meal every

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Lord's Day. We fellowship and break bread. Right. You know, if we, if we look to 1st Corinthians 11 and his prohibition about getting drunk at the

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Lord's Supper, you can't do that with a thimble of welchers. So, you know, and you can't, and you can't be a glutton when all you got is a piece of a saltine.

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Right. But that being said, if that is how the Lord's Supper was to be taking place, and that is what was happening on the

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Lord's Day with the Lord's people, and that they were together as a family, like going over to grandma's,

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YouTube doesn't give you that. And it actually completely ignores the purpose of what the

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Lord gave us. You know, I know Brayden had just finished reading

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The Mystery of Christ. You know, it's covered in his kingdom, which is such a good book.

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I mean, I recommended it to him. I did too. I've been telling like, dude,

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I'm gonna tell you, you might get Pentecostal in some chapters because there was times I was crying. There was times

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I wanted to get up and run around because it was like, mm -hmm, this was so good. I have a Pentecostal background, so it's very easy for me.

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So the chapter, when it got to the

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New Covenant, and he was talking about the Lord's Supper, and he had said in there that the

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Lord's Supper, the frequency with which you take the Lord's Supper is the frequency with which you are saying,

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Jesus, come back. It's the frequency with which you, because Jesus himself said, you know, when administering the

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Last Supper and bringing about that ordinance, that he said,

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I'm not gonna drink of this cup. I'm not gonna eat of this bread until I eat again with you in the kingdom.

36:51

Well, if that's the case, and we're proclaiming the Lord's death until he comes, one, what you're doing there with your church, that it's really saying,

37:02

Lord, this buffet we got going on right now, we wish you were here right now.

37:09

Right now. Because it was like, right meow, let's do this, Lord. And with the frequency with which we take part in that is to say,

37:18

Lord, we want you here with us. We want you. You don't get that with YouTube.

37:26

You don't. I listen to RefNet all day long. So I'm guessing you have an opinion about that.

37:32

Oh, I'm opinionated. I'm incredibly opinionated, and especially with if the

37:39

Lord's Word is spoken on a matter. I try. I'm still incredibly opinionated with the things when the

37:45

Lord hasn't spoke on it. But, you know, that one,

37:50

I'm not gonna fight so much over. But when the Lord has spoken, that's worth going to the mat for.

37:58

Absolutely. Because he's spoken on this.

38:05

And why? It just doesn't make sense to me.

38:15

This month, in just a couple days, so like eight days from now, will be the 20th anniversary of when the

38:21

Lord saved me. In 20 years, I could probably count on maybe one or two hands the number of times

38:30

I've missed church. And it's always because there was some providential reason

38:42

I'm not there. Not because I didn't want to put on my pants. I'd rather see it on YouTube.

38:50

What if the pastor doesn't feel like putting on his pants, and the congregation gathers? Hmm. I mean, are they gonna miss something?

39:00

Well, if he's not putting on his pants... Hopefully he's not putting on his pants, he's not getting behind the pulpit, right?

39:07

Right. But I'm just thinking about that. You know, like, I mean, if we just go when we feel like it.

39:17

I mean, you know, like pastor, you know, preparing messages, you know, like with my routine.

39:24

So I work a full -time job. Sorry. You know, from eight o 'clock till midnight,

39:32

I usually stay up and do my personal study and prepare my message, right?

39:39

And I'm doing this on up until, you know, Sunday morning, you know, because we don't have a church building.

39:45

We have to rent. And so I'm there by myself.

39:51

I'm setting up. I have to get there early enough to where an hour before service, I have time to go back over my notes, right?

40:00

Listen, if I don't show up, like, you know, and listen, there's been many days where I didn't sleep that night or I just, you know,

40:12

I do not, in the pulpit, I can feel like I do not want to be here. I feel like crap, right?

40:20

Right. I mean, you know, but what if I just decided, okay, I'm not gonna put on my pants today.

40:26

I'm gonna stay at home. Right. You know, I'll just do it. It affects everyone.

40:32

Yeah. But I'd say to anyone, and again,

40:39

I'm not trying to, you know, to, you know, bully the people that go to my church, you know, that miss him.

40:45

I'm just saying. Right. Anyone that does miss. That's not what we're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. But even that, it affects the service.

40:55

Right. Right. When, you know, when you look over and you see so -and -so's not here, it affects you, right?

41:02

Because we're family. And so I'm not too sure where I was going with it, but I was just wanting to, you know, like if you just had like what

41:14

I just read, you know, from Acts 2 42, and I know not every church has the

41:20

Lord's Supper every week, and I pick on them for not because I just, you know, when

41:25

I look at this, and they devoted themselves to the teachings of the

41:32

Apostles, to the fellowship, the breaking of bread, and prayer. So what if next, this coming

41:39

Lord's Day, I say, you know what? We're not gonna have any fellowship. We're gonna gather together, but we can't fellowship.

41:47

Right. Or we're gonna gather together, and we're gonna fellowship, we're gonna have teaching, and the Lord's Supper, but we're not gonna pray.

41:53

Right. Or we're gonna gather together, we're gonna have prayer, fellowship, and the Lord's Supper, but there's not gonna be any teaching.

42:02

Right. Right. You know, like what part of what the

42:07

Lord has established for, you know, for, you know, you know what

42:13

I find amazing is that, you know, we live in a society where we want to have all the smells, bells, lasers, and fog machines, and like that is what does it for us, because we're closet either

42:27

Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholics, or we're really wanting to go back to the old covenant system where we get to, we need to slaughter a sheep and have blood on the walls, but the fact is that the

42:43

Lord, what he gave us for new covenant worship is so simple.

42:51

It's so basic. It's actually, it's as if the

42:58

Lord intended it to be easily replicated throughout the world, throughout history, and that you didn't have to have a huge building, but you could just get together, and duly constituted and all that stuff, you know, having the proper order and structure, but it's so simple.

43:23

But it is so simple, and yet we can't get off our keister to be there, to make,

43:29

I know the 1689 talks about this, about making due preparation for the Lord's Day. We currently go to a church that's 45 minutes away, because it's a it's a

43:41

Reformed Baptist Church. It's an actual Reformed Baptist Church in Central Florida. It's a unicorn.

43:48

We, you know, we were attending kind of, we were

43:58

I'm too Reformed, and especially when it comes to my position on like youth groups and things like that, it's very vote -y on that, that finding a church that by and large held that, it's like, how can

44:17

I not go? You know, especially as, you know, in this limbo that I'm in, where I'm not regularly preaching,

44:27

I'm not pastoring a church currently, why wouldn't

44:32

I go to a place where it's like, you know, people are like, it's 45 minutes away. 45 minutes.

44:39

You know, I'll say this, just I know, you know, there's a cop, there's a family back at Eastside Baptist Church that, which was the church that called me out, it's a church that ordained

44:53

Brayden, you know, that called me out to do church planning in Twin Falls, Idaho.

44:59

There's a couple that lives like way out in the boondocks. If they can make it to church and it's out in the boondocks,

45:07

I in Central Florida can drive 45 minutes to a church that faithfully exposits the scriptures, that faithfully observes the

45:17

Lord's Supper, that, you know, is, that you can hear the congregation sing, and they're singing, and that, you know, that all of those things, it's so important.

45:40

Why, why would we avoid it?

45:46

I don't get it. It's, it's one thing, again, if, if there's providential reasons, that's not what we're talking about.

45:58

What we're talking about, especially in 2022, is, going back to Hebrews 10, is the forsaking of our own assembling together.

46:09

That's what you're doing. If you are the person who is not getting to church, not because of, you know, that you're unable due to providential reasons,

46:19

I'm not trying to bind your conscience because you've got, you know, you've got the flu.

46:26

Homie, stay home. Please. Do what, do what God said. You know, you're the leper at this moment.

46:32

Unclean, unclean. But if there is no providential reason for you not to be at church, you are expressly,

46:42

I mean, we don't even have to argue from the Fourth Commandment, because, you know, there'd be those who are like, the Fourth Commandment isn't valid in this day.

46:48

But Hebrews 10 25 is incredibly valid. Yeah. And it says don't forsake.

46:55

Yeah, so I'm teeing this off to you, and once, so I'm gonna read that portion of Scripture, and I'm gonna throw you a ball for you to hit.

47:04

I'm gonna do a little bit of explaining. Hopefully no dumpster fire coming, because I feel I'm just lighting them up.

47:10

Well, you know, it is what it is, right? You know, like, it's important because the

47:16

Bible talks about the church being the body of Christ, right? And it talks about, you know, the eye is different from the hand, the ear.

47:24

And I was sitting with some ladies at my church, you know, just, so we have two older families that go to our church, and so I'm kind of in between the two families, and so the two ladies are right here by me, and we're all having this big conversation.

47:45

And I mentioned, I was talking about this, us being a body, and how we're gathered around a table, and we're fellowshipping, we're talking

47:52

Scripture, we're making fun of each other, like it's the real thing going on, right?

47:59

And I mentioned to them, I said, how does a one -armed man wash his arm?

48:06

And one of them looked at me, she said, I guess they have to get their spouse to help them.

48:13

And I said, that's what the body of Christ is, all right? I need my arm.

48:20

I need that spouse, my arm. The whole body needs to be together.

48:26

And let's, again, something providential. So I'm gonna kind of take this, and so I'm gonna read from Hebrews 10.

48:34

I'm gonna read 19 through 25, and I'm gonna do just a little bit of commentary, but I want to set it up for you.

48:40

So I believe in verse 22, we hear, you know, this teaches faith.

48:48

23, hope. And then verse 25 speaks of love, and then,

48:54

I mean, 24 speaks of love, and verse 25 is going to tell us how to love. So what I believe here, it's going to get us into Christian ministry.

49:05

So basically, the layperson that comes to the church has a ministry inside the church, and that's where we're going to get to, and I believe that 25 is going to be the answer of how that takes place.

49:21

So verse 19, it starts with, therefore, and this is speaking about that since the sacrifice of Christ is true, and it's sufficient, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, speaking about his crucifixion, and since we have a great high priest over the house of God, you read chapter 3, it talks about whoever's in Christ is the house of God, but let us, so those that are the house of God, draw near.

49:57

We draw near because of what Christ has done with a true heart full of assurance of faith.

50:04

With our hearts sprinkled clean, you're born again from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

50:11

Now, I don't know where you stand on this, and we don't have to debate this right now, but I would say that this is, you have the entrance into the covenant, and then you have the sign of the covenant, which

50:19

I would take as baptism. So let us draw near, those of us that are in Christ, we have received the sign.

50:28

Let us hold fast to our confession of hope. What confession? That we believe that Jesus is the

50:34

Christ, the Son of the living God, death, burial, and resurrection. So speaking about, so let us with faith draw near with hope without wavering.

50:41

Faith, hope, for he who promised is faithful. Right here, verse 24, and let us consider.

50:48

So here is the ministry of every person that goes to church. Let us consider how to stir one another up to love and good works.

50:58

So I would say that when we gather, every one of us, lay person, you got saved two weeks ago, you're in the body of Christ, you have a ministry.

51:08

Well, what is that ministry? To love one another, and to stir up one another to love and good works, and someone should be stirring you up to love and good works.

51:18

Now, how do we do this? Not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another all the more as you see the day draw near.

51:28

So those that have their faith in Christ, he is their hope.

51:34

The Christian confession is the gospel, the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. He is the

51:40

Christ. He is the one who, the God -man who took on flesh, lived the life we couldn't live, died the death that we should die, his death, burial, and resurrection.

51:51

This is our hope. We have faith in him. He is our hope. Those of us to have that faith and have that hope are to stir one another up to love and good works.

52:04

How? By not neglecting to meet together. Right. So as we gather together as a church, this is ministry being done.

52:16

Thoughts? How can that be done? Yeah. Well, you know, and this is where I would say that one of the things that we need to understand that these, by and large, these are the people that we're going to be, you know, if they're people in good standing, you know, that there's no reason to question whether or not they're saved, these are the people you're going to spend eternity with.

52:47

This is your family, you know, and this is, you know, from a local perspective, it is the local representation of your family.

53:02

You know, these are your brothers and sisters, and it does you no good to not come together.

53:13

And, you know, and this is where, you know, I would say that maybe,

53:21

I might sound moderately radical a little bit here, that in many ways, the way that the church often functions,

53:33

I don't think we've quite yet got away from Rome. You know, one, let's look at the

53:42

Lord's Supper. Why is it only a thimble of juice and a wafer?

53:50

I mean, thankfully we don't practice intinction, but, you know, you sip it, don't dip it, but that...

53:58

I would even say that we don't even sip it, we're supposed to drink it. You know, that we should be engaged in, you know, what you're doing, you know, a meal.

54:11

You know, the elements, you know, aren't to be separated from a meal. You know, that it is a regular thing that the church is supposed to do all the time.

54:21

And I, you know, back to your point about Acts 242, you know, what element of worship that we're used to participating in, would we be okay with saying, you know, let's do it once a month, once a quarter, once a year?

54:36

Would we be okay with singing Psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs once a quarter? We're not gonna sing at all?

54:43

Like, what is the church even meaning if it ain't singing? Yes, so that was the whole point of me saying that, you know, what if I don't show up as the pastor?

54:54

Right. Well, if you take what we just said, you know, about removing any of the worship, whether it be the teaching, the fellowship, the breaking of bread, or the prayers, like people would be up in arms, right?

55:11

Well, what I just read of how to consider that the church is supposed to consider how to stir one another up to love and good works, and I spoke about that being ministry, and earlier

55:29

I said, what if I didn't come and perform my ministry? When people don't want to put on their pants, as you said earlier, what they're doing is they're neglecting to fulfill their ministry.

55:45

Yeah, and I would actually even... I like the stronger word. In my opinion, I think the stronger word that I think the

55:52

New American Standard does it... I've got my legacy standard in front of me. Oh Lord, bless him.

55:58

Yeah, yeah, I love it, man. I'm gonna tell you. I got mine right here. I just got the little New Testament.

56:04

Right there. Oh, look at that bad boy. Oh, so pretty, but it says forsaking, and neglecting is...

56:15

I forgot, you know, I forgot to brush my teeth today.

56:20

I neglected to do that. I intentionally didn't put on deodorant today.

56:28

I wanted you to smell me. That's forsaking. You know, I just, you know,

56:34

I didn't just take, you know, the toothbrush or the toothpaste, and I just forgot.

56:39

Oh, like I was in a rush, and I neglected to do that. I took my toothbrush and my toothpaste, and I threw it in the trash and walked out the door after just having an, you know, an onion and garlic cookie.

56:52

You know, and so for... there is something to be said when you are, as the body, coming together, giving one another a hug, sitting there, there is something to be said when, you know, okay, you know,

57:12

I could sit there and go, oh, I'm ordained. I've got my degree from, you know, in biblical studies.

57:20

Woo. But there's something to be said about a saint who's been walking with Jesus for 50 years, that they have seen his faithfulness, that they have faltered, and they have they've had failures, and they've had joyous successes over the course of decades.

57:47

I have much to learn from them into conversation. I, let me give an example here of a real example that happened.

57:57

So when we moved to Idaho, from North Carolina, the, you know,

58:04

East Side Baptist is an age integrated church. I was a youth pastor in North Carolina.

58:09

It became pretty hard to be a youth pastor when you're convinced of age integration. So, but we ended up in Idaho at East Side Baptist.

58:22

My son is one year old about this time. He's now six.

58:29

He's one at this time. He's used to being shuttled off by this, at this moment, being shuttled off to nursery or something else.

58:41

What we, I was going to the men's Sunday school, or men's, you know, Sunday Bible study, however you want to call it.

58:49

And he was having a hard time adjusting to this. He's by far the youngest guy in the room.

58:57

There are men in this, you know, around this table who have walked with Jesus for decades.

59:06

You got them, you've got at this table, one man who'd been to prison in Haiti for Jesus.

59:13

There's a lot I can learn from that guy. Okay. These men went out of their way going, no, no,

59:23

Greg, it's okay. He's fine. And to make him comfortable for weeks on end, every

59:30

Sunday, whenever he was just kind of like, yeah, cause he's one. And what are, who are all these old guys?

59:38

They began from men older than, you know, at least 10, 15 years older than I, plus, and then some almost four decades older than I was, or no, actually five decades older than I was, began to break out in Jesus loves me.

59:59

Singing to my son, Jesus loves me. This I know for the

01:00:05

Bible tells me so. A song that we sing, you know, we still sing every night in family worship in order to make him comfortable.

01:00:17

You'll like, boy, you're, you're here. You're in church that these are, these men love

01:00:27

Jesus and they want you to know him. That is so, it's such a big deal.

01:00:41

And it's so little, like it's such a little thing. But to have men who had been walking with Jesus for decades upon decades upon decades, who have, who have seen him work in ways that I won't understand, or at least that I haven't understood yet, singing to a one -year -old boy, that, that is something you do not get by forsaking the gathering of yourselves together.

01:01:20

You don't get it. You don't get, so you don't get it when, you know, you go through a hard time and you go through a miscarriage, or you go through the, the, the, the case where, you know, you lose a loved one.

01:01:38

Like, you know, right at the beginning of my time there at Valley Baptist, I had to basically run a, yeah,

01:01:46

I had, you know, within like two or three months of me being there, my uncle died, who was himself a

01:01:53

Baptist minister. And he had asked me to do his funeral. So I had to go,

01:01:58

I had to go from Hagerman, Idaho to Atlanta, Georgia, to perform a funeral of a man that I was like,

01:02:05

I'm, I'm pastoring now, fantastic. I've got my uncle who's got 50 -something years of ministry experience that I can learn from.

01:02:17

And within three months, he's dead. Having a church, and this, this is pre -COVID, then having a church to be there, just to be there, to know that, and to pray for you, to care for you.

01:02:45

Why in the world would you not put on your pants and go to church? I don't get it.

01:02:52

I don't get it at all. It doesn't make any sense. You know, getting to, you know, the scriptural side of things,

01:02:59

God has spoken. What are you doing? First off, first and foremost, what are you doing? Why are you willfully disobeying your master?

01:03:10

You are his slave. Don't forget that. He shed his blood for you and for those people that you don't want, that you are so lazy, that you can't even roll out of the bed, that you can't even do what is necessary to get yourself to make due preparation to observe the

01:03:30

Lord's day. Jesus died for those people, and you can't do enough, that you don't find it important enough for you to get up and go to be with the people he died for?

01:03:42

Okay, so there's that. But then, you know, speaking on the experiential level, why in the world would you ever forfeit a blessing like that?

01:03:57

Why would you do it? It makes no sense. It really makes no sense to me at all.

01:04:05

I have grown. So I must speak here a little openly.

01:04:11

So I, you know, I became a Christian, and I was like 15 going on 16.

01:04:18

So again, it's around this time 20 years ago. This is, you know, June 2002.

01:04:25

So it's not that far removed from September 11th. And unbeknownst to me, within a year, there would be absolute turmoil that would happen in my family.

01:04:39

And my family dissolved within, it began dissolving within a year of being a Christian, after being a

01:04:45

Christian. I needed the church. Not only did

01:04:53

I need Jesus, here's the thing. Jesus, in his kindness, and this is why I don't think we grab hold of enough.

01:05:01

Our Lord Jesus at this moment, yes, he dwells in us by his Holy Spirit. Praise God for that.

01:05:08

But we are not Gnostics. We are not merely spiritual creatures.

01:05:17

We are encased in flesh. And in the eternal state, we will still be encased in flesh.

01:05:25

You know, we will be fleshly creatures. That we will have a body like Christ's.

01:05:36

Our Lord Jesus, in his kindness, in the meantime, as we await his return, you know, however you want to go eschatologically, we agree that he's coming back.

01:05:48

That it's going to happen. He's gonna rip open the skies, and it's gonna be lit fam.

01:05:55

It's gonna be great, and we're gonna get to see him as he is. But that time isn't yet.

01:06:03

That appointed time has not yet come. In the meantime, what has he given us?

01:06:10

It goes back to what Ephesians, I think it's Ephesians, where it talks about how he has given us, you know, apostles, and prophets, and teachers, you know, pastors, teachers, as a gift.

01:06:23

Because he cared so much about his church, that he gave gifts to men.

01:06:31

That he gave us, he gave us us. And why are we so stupid, and so foolish, that we were like, oh, me and Jesus, we got a thing going.

01:06:46

Bro, you don't. Because he has given you something, and you reject it.

01:06:52

You reject the good gift that he's given. And that is the church. That he has given us the church.

01:07:00

He cared so much about us, that once and all, that we have, that he has brought us together to be a body.

01:07:09

To be there with one another. All the one -anothers that we see in the New Testament. That to, you know, what

01:07:17

Romans 14 talks about, being able to weep with those who weep.

01:07:22

Rejoice with those who rejoice. There is something to be said. I mean, when you know you've gotten just the, you know, as a kid, you've got the dopest

01:07:30

Christmas present. You want everybody to know. And you want everybody to celebrate with you how great of a present you got.

01:07:37

We've been given the church. He's given us that.

01:07:45

And yet, here we are. Like, I'd rather watch football. Or, oh, hold on.

01:07:51

Hold on. Hold on. The pot roast is coming to be done.

01:07:56

We got to hurry up. The preacher needs to hurry up. Because we got pot.

01:08:02

Well, you know what? We can fix that problem. Have a potluck after church, and the pot roast is in the church fellowship hall.

01:08:07

But, you know, we can clear that problem up real fast. Why in the world?

01:08:15

Why? Even just for selfish reasons. Why would we forsake the gathering of ourselves together? And it tells, like, here's the thing that, you know, back to that text.

01:08:25

Right at the thing at the end. It doesn't say, don't forsake the gathering of yourselves together. It says, encourage one another.

01:08:35

All the more, as you see the day drawing near. The more and more you're like, you know, again, whatever your eschatology may be, you look at it and say, you know, the world kind of sucks right now.

01:08:51

You know what you should do? Go to church. Have more church.

01:08:58

Have a longer church service. Yeah. Or imagine, imagine this. Imagine, you know, we'll go back to the whole pants thing.

01:09:08

You know, someone from the church of Colossia or Corinth didn't put their pants on that day.

01:09:18

Well, they wasn't there when they publicly, to the church, read

01:09:24

Paul's letter. All right. Because Paul didn't give a letter that was, you know, that had enough copies to pass out to everyone.

01:09:32

I can mail to you and you can write this letter. Right. If you want to hear the letter, you got to be at church.

01:09:37

You got to be gathered together. You got to be a part of the body. Right. You know, like,

01:09:44

I like to explain it like this, like individually, we are temples of God. You know, if you have the

01:09:49

Holy Spirit in you, you are a temple of the Holy of God. But you're not, you by yourself are not the church.

01:09:57

Right. You don't become the church until those temples are gathered together as an assembly.

01:10:05

Right. You see what I'm saying? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Or the churches, you know, you know, the seven churches spoken of in Revelation, you know, like, you know, the letter was read out loud, the whole book of Revelation, like talking about a potluck or the meatloaf or whatever.

01:10:24

Right. What if it's a slow reader or what if they're reading Psalm 119?

01:10:30

I mean, come on now. Right. You know, if you give any commentary on that, you're there for two hours.

01:10:39

But it just I think it's we're living in a world that disvalues the

01:10:46

Word of God. You know, if the preacher preaches 20 minutes, he's either love it or hate it.

01:10:55

And if he preaches 50 minutes, he's either love it or hate it. Right. You know, just depending on, you know, like us reform folks, you know, people in my church, if I preach 20 minutes, they'd probably kick me out.

01:11:07

Like you are a preacher. Well, you can't preach that short. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's okay.

01:11:24

I'm back. Can you see me back? Okay. Okay. I thought maybe it was me. Yeah. We have a storm that kind of was pushing through here.

01:11:33

So I was a little worried if we was going to be able to do anything at all. That kind of threw me off.

01:11:42

Yeah. Yes. I just think that, you know, we're just living in a time where God's words devalue.

01:11:47

People don't care what it says. Me and Jesus got our own thing going. And just like you, you know,

01:11:53

I was trying to gear this conversation to this point, you know, you know, I mean, a lot of people that tell me they believe in God that tell me they're a

01:12:03

Christian, but they have no relationship with the body of Christ. And, and man, again, these are people who are able and unwilling.

01:12:16

And, and, and as a pastor, I really try to to say things graciously.

01:12:22

I know I get on here sometimes on this podcast and we kind of ramble off and joke around, but you know, like when

01:12:28

I'm really dealing with someone, I want to be compassionate, but there's no way that I can confirm what they're saying.

01:12:37

Right. You know what I'm saying? I have to speak the truth with a love sandwich, you know, and, you know, and just again, like I always got that Paul Washer in the back of my head.

01:12:49

So you love God, you love Christ, but you can't stand his bride. Right.

01:12:55

Man, you know, we are the bride of Christ. Not only are we the bride of Christ, but we are the body of Jesus Christ.

01:13:01

Right. Right. And how can a one -armed man wash his arm? Right. Right. And that gets back to, you know, being the body.

01:13:12

Our Lord Jesus, yeah, he actually has a physical body. Correct.

01:13:17

He's the God -man, right? He's truly God, truly man, but he isn't here in person.

01:13:27

That's our hope. That's the ultimate hope is seeing him in person, like being able, like I would love,

01:13:38

I'll be honest, it is going to be enough for me to see his face, just to see his face.

01:13:46

And if I can give him a hug, that's enough.

01:13:53

Like it's everything I want. But in the meantime, in the meantime, and yeah, following the comments here, that yeah, we do live in a

01:14:04

TikTok generation. We absolutely do. But, you know, the fact is that he has a body and it's the local, it is the church.

01:14:20

It's, you know, again, we're not talking about a hierarchical structure. I'm a Baptist. I'm, that Antichrist that sits in Rome.

01:14:31

I don't look to the men, you know, in the Eastern Orthodox Church.

01:14:37

I don't look to the Archbishop of Canterbury, you know, as the church.

01:14:45

I look at my local congregation and say, this is what, these are the people that God has grafted me with to be the visible representation, the visible expression of himself.

01:15:07

Why? Why would I forsake that when he was so kind to me? That the

01:15:13

Spirit of God, that the Father cared so much, that the Son cared so much, that the

01:15:19

Spirit cared so much, that the triune

01:15:25

God would bring little pockets, little embassies of the kingdom all throughout the world and have us together.

01:15:40

Why would I say to, would I have the gall, not just to say, you know, the idea of what, you know,

01:15:46

Paul Washer's quote there of, hey dude, I don't like your wife. And my, of course, response would be like, hey dude,

01:15:52

I carry a nine mil with me all the time. So, but the, or a 38, one or the other.

01:16:02

But it's more than that. It's us actually saying,

01:16:09

God, you had no idea what you were doing. You didn't know what you were doing when you set it up this way.

01:16:17

You, oh sovereign one of the universe, ye who holds the waters in his hands, ye who, you know, who confounds the wisdom of the wise, you messed up here.

01:16:34

You didn't know what you were doing. You could have done things different. Yeah, and it's like, do you really want to say that?

01:16:46

What arrogance. Like, and I'd say it would come, it'd come down to this, that when we treat the church and church attendance to where it's a, it's not a big deal.

01:17:02

It's a, you know, I might go. You're arrogant.

01:17:08

You're proud. Maybe you should celebrate Pride Month, but for a different reason.

01:17:14

That you, you have, you have outright, by your actions, you are saying,

01:17:25

God, you have no idea what you're doing. Your plan was wrong. But guys, he was, this was his plan from before the foundation of the earth.

01:17:38

Before he said, let there be light, this was going to happen. This was the, this was the goal, or at least in time, this is the goal.

01:17:48

This is what he was doing. And yet, we can't get up.

01:17:56

We can't go to church. We can't attend, be a part of a local body where God, in his great grace, that when

01:18:04

Jesus was, when he ascended to the Father, that he gave these gifts, you know, of a, you know, we've now, we have the gifts of the apostolic teaching right here in this book, that we have, you know, the prophetic word given to us right here, that we have the faith that has been once for all delivered to the saints right here, and that he has, in his kindness, continued to propagate and raise up men, biblically qualified men, who will take the time to delve into this book and say, thus says the

01:18:44

Lord, that as long as what I'm doing here is saying, thus says the Lord, because he loved us enough to do that.

01:18:52

He loved us enough to establish the diaconate so that there'd be deacons to care for our physical needs while our pastors are digging into the word, you know, mining the depths of the succulent pieces of God's word to feed us and to pray for us.

01:19:13

And then, and then, you know, and those, to me, are like just bonuses. Then you get the laity as a whole, you get the whole of the actual, of what is the congregation.

01:19:23

You know, the laity isn't just the congregation. The congregation is, is the pastorate, is the pastors, the deacons, and the laity.

01:19:32

That's the congregation. And, but, you know, on the laity side, that you've got people who have been through stuff, again, everybody needs a church grandma.

01:19:45

Everybody needs a church grandpa. And, you know, everybody needs a church aunt and uncle. I mean, you need them.

01:19:51

There's something about it. It's so good. And yet, you know why it's good?

01:19:58

It's because it was God's idea. It was all His idea.

01:20:06

And then we are arrogant enough to say, or even we're even so willing as to say, well,

01:20:16

Caesar told me not to go. So I can't. But who is

01:20:22

Caesar? Whose image do you bear? Not Caesar's.

01:20:29

And you are to render unto God that which is God's. Do what he says. He'll take care of the rest.

01:20:38

Now that may mean you're in jail, but he'll take care of it. And you know what? If you, if you were to suffer because of church attendance,

01:20:52

I am looking forward to seeing the reward that you receive in the kingdom.

01:20:58

Yeah, it goes back to what we were talking about at the very beginning. You know, this whole post -COVID, everything, you know, you don't have to wear a mask.

01:21:09

You know, of course, like at our church, we never like, look, we plan it during COVID.

01:21:14

We never require masks. Our doors were always open. Signs were always out front. On Saturdays, I'm preaching, inviting people to church, like waving at the cops, inviting them.

01:21:26

Like, I mean, like, you know, you know, we're, we're not listening, you know, but, you know, it comes, this idea of judgment hitting the house of the

01:21:39

Lord, you know, God separating, you know, the wheat and the tares, the sheep from the goats, you know, it could be that the, the church got too full of goats, that God needed to do something about it.

01:21:54

And we're seeing that now, you know, the churches are open. There's no condition.

01:22:01

For the most part, I'm speaking about, you know, in America and stuff like that. I'm not, I don't really know too much about, you know, other places in the world.

01:22:10

And, and, and people are not putting on their pants, they're not willing to go, well, it's because you're not a

01:22:16

Christian. Right? I mean, yeah, let's just go ahead and, you know, we don't call apples oranges.

01:22:25

We just call them how we season, right? If we want to go back to that little, little country saying, we call them how we season.

01:22:32

But, you know, I mean, it just goes back to that. And, and, and of course, in one sense,

01:22:38

COVID was a horrible thing that we've had to experience. A lot of people died. You know,

01:22:44

I know I've lost a lot of friends because of it, you know, whether it be my stance or, or whatever it is, but, but at the same time, we can't despise what

01:22:57

God is doing. Because he's sovereign, correct? I mean, you're reformed. You know, God wasn't sitting on a stone and said, oh, what is this?

01:23:06

COVID? What is this? No, no. No, it was, it came by his decree. Yeah, it came by his decree.

01:23:13

And, and we just have to realize that, you know, you know, we're talking about, like, suffering through it and, or, you know, the pastor that lost a lot, you know,

01:23:23

I mean, we lost a lot, but we gained a whole lot, too. You know, I mean, the church that planted is not the church that's meeting today.

01:23:34

You know, we had, you know, three original families, but, you know,

01:23:39

I think we had, like, ten families, and then it windowed down to three, and so we're working our way back up now, and I mean, a lot of things took place, right?

01:23:52

But, you know, like we were saying in the beginning, that this is, this did not take

01:23:57

God by surprise. God is sovereign. God is weeding out the sheeps and the goats. And the whole point of this is, is that if, you know, if you're not, if, if you are, like where the text says, and let us consider how to stir one another up to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, and right here it says, as is the habit of some.

01:24:19

Yeah. The ones right here where it talks about as is the habit of some, these were those that weren't trusting in the sufficiency and the supremacy of Jesus Christ.

01:24:27

So when you look at the text, the book of Hebrews, like if you were to lay it out, it's about the supremacy and the sufficiency.

01:24:35

Jesus is greater than everyone that came before him, and Jesus' sacrifice is greater than the previous sacrifice in the

01:24:43

Old Covenant. Right. These people that were neglecting to meet together, forsaking to meet together, were saying, no, he's not greater, and no, his sacrifice isn't sufficient.

01:24:55

We need something else. Ladies and gentlemen, this is exactly what you are saying today if you are neglecting to gather together with the body.

01:25:05

Yeah. Jesus is not supremacy. He's not greater, and his sacrifice is not sufficient because what you're doing is you're denying the

01:25:14

Word of God that tells us to not forsake, not neglect, whatever you want to put there, the assembling of ourselves together.

01:25:25

Right. And I believe this so much that I asked this dear brother who we've been conversating back and forth on text messages here and there to come and be a part of this, and let me ask you before we get off here, are you free next week?

01:25:43

I do believe Brayden will not be back on for two weeks. Maybe.

01:25:49

Maybe? Okay. I'd have to, I have to, I have to look at, I'm just trying to think right off the top of my head.

01:25:56

Let me look real fast. This is the 9th. Well, that's providential in that regards.

01:26:04

You know, that's the next Friday, I say this next Friday celebrates, you know, 20 years of being a

01:26:10

Christian. Who would have thought, you know, 20 years ago that I'd be on something like this. That I think

01:26:20

I might be. Well, I'll go ahead and address a topic that I'll be talking about, and if you're able to jump on, jump on, and if someone else wants to get on here too, and we'll have a three -way conversation, please message me.

01:26:35

But I want to do something where we're discussing a topic that was brought up tonight, dealing with the hypostatic union,

01:26:42

Jesus being both God and man. Okay. And we want to, I want to look at what this means and what was accomplished through him being both

01:26:54

God and man. So, if you're interested next week, I'd love to have you back on. And again, if you're listening tonight, and you want to join the conversation, hey, send me a message, and we'll have that conversation.

01:27:08

But we are at an hour and 27 minutes, so we'll go ahead and get off. If you have any, so once we go offline, stay on.

01:27:18

Yeah. You can't do that without me. Oh, yes, I can, brother. I got to get on here.

01:27:25

And maybe this is where, you know, I think, you know, again, you know, talking the eschatological stuff, because I know, you know, he's all male.

01:27:32

You're post, you know, I'm not. I'm post male -ish. Post male -ish. Yeah, I'm a partial,

01:27:39

I'm an optimistic partial preterist. That is a hyphen.

01:27:46

You know, I kind of am sitting at a, I'm pre -millennial, you know,

01:27:53

I'm pre -millennial. Yeah, we're praying. Well, I'm sorry I read my

01:27:59

Bible, but. He says I'm all male in denial.

01:28:05

All male in denial. Well, but, you know, I'm, so I'll tell you, like, just to make this quick, what

01:28:14

I'm reading right now, I don't know if you've heard of the Theocratic Kingdom by George N .H.

01:28:21

Peters. He was actually a Lutheran who was a pre -mill guy in the 19th century, which, if you know, like anything church history, you're going, wow, talk about a unicorn, you know, like a pre -mill

01:28:35

Lutheran in the 19th century. And the book, it's actually a three volume work that's like 2 ,400 pages,

01:28:43

I think. No, 2 ,100 pages. It's 2 ,100 pages, got like 4 ,000 references.

01:28:50

It's an absurd amount of stuff. And it's taken, I'm like 150 pages in, and I'm like, okay, now we're actually getting to the content of the book.

01:29:02

It's like, dude, and this guy obviously had to write it by hand. I'm like, man, but it's a pre -mill work, and it kind of actually, of the historic, the

01:29:11

Kaelistic sense, you know, the one that Polycarp would have believed in, you know. So, yeah, it's interesting.

01:29:21

Why do you have the Polycarp out there? It's because he was, I'm just saying, you know, the disciple of the guy who wrote the

01:29:29

Book of Revelation was a pre -mill guy. He just wouldn't listen, man. He was dull of hearing.

01:29:35

Right, right. But, you know, and so, but it's, you know, it was, you know,

01:29:41

I'd like to get on, because some good -natured, his church father can beat up your church father.

01:29:52

Bro, your church father is Augustine Brayden. Augustine's your church father at this moment.

01:30:00

At the moment, I don't think I have a church father. I agree. I kind of feel eschatologically homeless.

01:30:07

Like, I would say that I'm post -mill. My problem is, is that post -mill take the kingdom too literal, and all mills take the kingdom too spiritually, right?

01:30:17

And then the pre -mills, they put the kingdom far out, and so.

01:30:24

Not necessarily, not necessarily. That's why we got to have a discussion, and we could. Yeah, so let's plan for that.

01:30:31

So when Brayden comes back, we're going to be continuing the Matthew 24. If you're able to, before we get into Matthew 24, we can come on and talk about our different views of the kingdom, and if you're able to walk through 24 with us,

01:30:46

I mean. I've preached through Matthew 24, and I've preached it as a pre -mill guy who, you know,

01:30:52

I went to a church in Glens Ferry, preached, and I was like, I'm about to get crucified, because I'm not preaching the typical, like, this is all in the future.

01:31:05

I'm like, yeah, it's, you know, it's got some, at least some fulfillment in 70

01:31:12

AD, but I think it's, I would also say that it's much more than just 70

01:31:17

AD. Well, Johnny Cash is one of my favorite singers of all time, and he has a song about Matthew 24, and it's just,

01:31:25

I listen to it and shake my head, but I love old Johnny Cash, man. Yeah, so let's plan on doing something, but more likely next week, unless I can come, you know, because Brayden, he does, you know, he could talk me into not talking about the hypostatic union, but if he doesn't talk me into not talking about it next week,

01:31:47

I'll be talking about the hypostatic union, and if you're able to get on. I'm free, I'm good to, you know, literally,

01:31:55

I don't know if you notice my, where is he, right there, Godzilla.

01:32:01

I can go, I can go anywhere, you know, with this stuff, man, so, again, we're in an hour and a half.

01:32:10

I could put, I could probably push this out three more hours, but then we'd all, we'd hate each other, but it's because we're tired.

01:32:18

Yeah, but yeah, so let's definitely try to do something else, if you're willing.

01:32:24

Yeah, so do you have, so whenever we click off of live, don't go anywhere, and do you have any last words?

01:32:33

You know, I know, I know that I can, obviously, you know, you know, tell us how you really feel, but I really, this really does, it concerns me, because it's so important, because what

01:32:54

Jesus did, if Jesus died for the church, that's all

01:33:02

I need to know. You know, yes, he died for me. I'm a Calvinist. I absolutely believe he died for me, but it's not so individualistic, his death.

01:33:16

He died for me, yes, as an individual, yes, my name was, you know, written in those nail, you know, pierced hands, but I wasn't the only one there.

01:33:30

I wasn't the only one that he was dying for. He was dying for his church, for his people, for all who would repent and believe in him, all who would forsake their sin and turn to him.

01:33:49

That's who he died for. He died for his people, and why, why would we treat his people?

01:33:59

Yeah, no, we haven't hit glory yet. We got problems. We got real problems, but these are the people

01:34:11

Jesus died for, and these are the people that Jesus has given you, oh sinner, to be with, so don't forsake it.

01:34:25

You know, I know I'm passionate about it. Brady wants to jump on for a second.

01:34:31

Oh, snap! Oh, it's like when you're watching Rasslin, and you know, you suddenly hear somebody's theme song coming on, you know, just jumping in like, oh no, steel chair.

01:34:44

I guess we said something that he wants to correct our theology real quick. Uh -oh, but you know, it's,

01:34:52

I'm just saying is, if there's anything, I know that it's, may come across especially as grabbing somebody by the scruff, you know, taking them and like, what are you doing?

01:35:05

But you know, occasionally, we need more Saint Nicholas's to knock somebody upside the head and say, what are you doing?

01:35:18

Because especially for us guys, sometimes a knock upside the head says, you know, you make sense.

01:35:27

But you know, I'm just saying, man, don't, don't forsake the church. It's too precious.

01:35:33

It's too much of a blessing. And if you are, repent. Repent, and run to Christ, and his church is waiting.

01:35:48

Brady didn't drop off again, or have an issue? I don't know. He's fickle.

01:35:56

Where you at, Brady? Over here, commenting, trying to hop in, but he ain't there.

01:36:06

Yeah, he's over, you know, more call me names, call me an all -male, and you know, bad -mouthing.

01:36:13

Dirty words. You coming, bruh?

01:36:21

What's that you playing? Okay, he just checked it. Here's for hoping that the, like, the siren doesn't go off while he's on.

01:36:36

I know, right? Bear with us, ladies and gentlemen.

01:36:46

Braden's wanting to come and start some trouble. Yeah. We're going to start having this podcast like Joe Rogan, and just, here we go.

01:36:57

Hey! Hey! What's up, dude? What's up? I heard something about you guys talking about the hypostatic union without me, and I got all upset.

01:37:06

Now, I would let you talk me out of it, but we would have to do it before we talk about Matthew 24, because that's going to be a long time, but I have something to talk about next week.

01:37:15

Fair enough. Well, so if I can't do it, you got to give me something to talk about. Yes. Okay, Joe, that's what

01:37:20

I want to talk about. The nice thing about the hypostatic union, we can get, like, we can remind people on that almost every single week, so we'll have plenty of conversations with that.

01:37:30

I was just thinking about, because, man, one of the heresies I've addressed with a heretical person that calls himself a pastor, who

01:37:41

I wouldn't call a Christian brother, believes in the kenosis theory heresy, and has taken it way outside of even being considered closely associated with orthodoxy, and so the hypostatic union is very near and dear to my heart, as it should be for every

01:37:57

Christian, so that's why I was like, I got to get on here and talk. So anyway, I enjoyed your guys' conversation, though.

01:38:05

It was good. Thanks for letting me jump in on a second. Do you have any, I know you gave a list of why it's important to go to church.

01:38:16

Is there anything on your heart that you would like to say about our conversation? You know, I missed, so I listened to the front half of your guys' conversation, and then

01:38:25

I had to make some phone calls regarding church stuff, so I wasn't able to listen to everything. You know,

01:38:30

I think the number one thing that we have to remember, I think, when it comes to church is it's in adoration of who

01:38:37

God is. Whenever we see angels or anybody worshiping God, it's about who He is, and so I am the bride of Christ, but it is

01:38:47

Christ that has purchased me. I ought to do this for Him, right? And I ought to do this towards Him with this purpose, and not only that, but when we understand that the bride of Christ is made up of the universal, invisible body of Christ, I ought to go to the local visible to encourage that brother and sister that is also the bride and stimulate them to good works unto our

01:39:11

God. And so it's multiple faceted, right? There's so many different angles to talk about with that kind of stuff, but I think the primary focus needs to be focused on glorifying

01:39:21

God, and then everything else encapulates that central aspect.

01:39:29

Right, right, and that's the thing is, as we're engaged with a local body, and we're partaking of not just, you know, really the means of grace, you know, as we would call them, that they really,

01:39:44

I know when I, you know, before, you know, Braden took over, you know, one of the things that I know that I would talk about is, you know, because I was going through John, and it was, you know, astounding to see, and really to kind of step back and go, wait, the

01:40:05

Holy Spirit wrote this book, and He'd give us this information about our Lord for a reason, because He cares about us, because He loves us, and He wants us to know this, and that, you know, we so often are like,

01:40:18

God, I want, I need your grace in my life, I need your grace in my life, I need your grace in my life, which we do, we need it every day, you know, and I'm not just merely asking for saving grace,

01:40:27

I'm asking for, like, just grace to live, because, you know,

01:40:33

I'm a wretched sinner, and... Hey, I gotta go, see you guys, amen. I knew it was going to happen, but, you know, what

01:40:40

I would say is that, you know, we ask for God's grace, and He's given it, He's given the means, and yet we want to kick it to the curb.

01:40:51

I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it, brother. All right, well, we're going to sign out.

01:40:57

Well, and before you do, I just want to say, anybody from Valley that is on there,

01:41:03

I know Ray and Teresa, I know you're watching. Anybody else that is either watching now or will watch later,

01:41:10

I love y 'all, and I'm grateful to God that Brayden is your pastor.

01:41:18

I'm so thankful for that, and I'm thankful for the time that I got to, you know, to shepherd you for that brief period of time through that hectic, hectic time that was

01:41:31

COVID, so love you guys. I miss you guys, and may the

01:41:36

Lord continue to bless y 'all. Yeah, well, Greg, it was a pleasure having your own brother, and I hope we can do more in the future.

01:41:43

Yeah, but to everyone who's watching, again, we love y 'all. If you do not have a local body, a church to gather with, we would encourage you.

01:41:51

I know my brother agrees with me to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:42:19

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:42:25

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:42:55

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:43:10

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:43:16

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:43:22

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:43:43

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:43:50

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:43:55

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:44:05

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:44:17

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:44:24

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:44:37

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:44:42

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:44:49

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:44:55

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:45:17

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:45:22

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:45:34

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:45:45

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:45:54

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:46:24

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:46:34

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:46:40

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:46:53

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:47:20

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:47:26

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a

01:47:55

Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that walks through the world, and we would encourage you to find a Bible -believing church that Help us.

01:48:03

That's right. We're all getting delusional. We are. Well, I mean, if y 'all wanna stay on and talk about something,

01:48:11

I'm down for it, but if If not, let me know and we'll get off. Well, maybe we can carry on a little bit after that.

01:48:21

Because it's, for me, it's 1154. Yeah, for me, I don't know, 1054.

01:48:30

All right, well, we'll shut off, but y 'all stay on. Braden, any last words? He done gave his last words.