Some Reasons for Passivity Among Conservatives With Institutional Credibility

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Hey everyone, welcome to the conversations that matter podcast road edition

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Rocking chair edition staying at a friend's house in Virginia, which is a blessing and Yesterday I was doing a project for another organization that asked me on Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings And it's stuff you're not gonna hear from the

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Academy today. So look out for that. I'll let you know when it comes out and That should be good.

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I also did a an interview with a Jefferson scholar Just on some questions that I've had about Thomas Jefferson.

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So I'll let you in on that Lord willing next week in the meantime

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You've been hearing this past week from me on various teachers and well various figures in different circles that I think people that we trusted or we would have naturally trusted that now we probably got to ask some questions about or in A case of the podcast that's about to be released in about half an hour.

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I'm doing this recording this on Thursday around 230 Talking about someone in the

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PCA who I think conservatives have a lot of hope in but For lack of I guess a better way of putting it there.

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There's seems to be a strategic difference between Not just myself

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But I think a lot of you out there a lot of working -class people and then people with some institutional

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Credibility and I want to talk about that a little bit, but I want to acknowledge the first thing a few things first one is that Those three podcasts that I released this week were recorded within hours

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They were right before the leak from the Supreme Court I would have probably done something different if I had known that I would have talked about Roe v

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Wade and but you know I talk about the Lord Sovereign and I think those have been helpful for many of you and I've gotten some messages from some of you that have been encouraging and and so his timings perfect and I just Leave that to him.

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I am encouraged to see what's going on. I don't know if this is going to lead to Something happening.

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I I mean people are Theorizing that maybe one of these Supreme Court justices is going to be assassinated or maybe

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There's gonna be so much political pressure applied it's gonna make one of them switch their vote or you know There's all these possibilities that are swirling around.

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I don't know. I do know though that God's timings perfect. He's sovereign and Even if this is a temporary thing, we we want to see this happen.

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We want to see the lives of children saved. So that's That's going on as well.

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Let's pray for that Grove City College right now is having what amounts to a civil war I don't think

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I've ever seen so much unrest at an institution over social justice Because it's happening within the organization

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You have even professors now coming out publicly some of them engaging in some really dirty tactics things that honestly ten years ago

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I think would have been seen as if you did these things if you were trying to go after a board member because of supposed ties she might have to her church might have to Connections to possible racism maybe

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I mean you would have just been seen as kind of a jerk But now the social justice folks the hard left.

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I mean, they they think anything is fine As long as it advances the revolution And it becomes to the it gets to the point where lying and stealing and all kinds of things become permissible

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As long as you're forwarding the right political agenda, it's just disgusting really so moral morality gets just thrown out the window

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In fact, that's the same thing with what's happened with the Supreme Court thing I mean, it's you know leaking a a brief like this.

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It's just so Unprofessional, but it's also it would it's seen by conservatives like it's immoral, but the hard left thinks oh, this is great

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Anything we can use we'll do if we have to break rules. We break rules or traditions. We break them we we just got to do it because we got to support the next rung on the social justice advancement, so That's going on.

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I Want to talk though about? Something that I'm anticipating it hasn't happened yet because the video hasn't been released that's going to be released in about half an hour, but I'm releasing a video and and in that video

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I talk about someone in the PCA who a lot of conservatives have a lot of confidence in and I think probably my video is going to make some of them second -guess that you know wonder whether they should have confidence and I've I've dealt with This issue for years now in the

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SPC especially and in fact I'll give you a story from one person told me that probably wouldn't would never come out publicly and try to be associated with me ever but behind the scenes

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They'll talk to me and they they told me that you know, if we all if we all go at once if we all just take

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Talk about the false teachers, you know go against social justice at once in the SPC. We'll all just die

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Well, we'll just it'll be over and and we have to be really smart about this we have to you know be strategic and some people are gonna have to play different parts and to some extent

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I understand that and Agree with the idea that some people have different strengths and weaknesses and they're gonna play different parts as a result the thing that was

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Disconcerting to me and this happened probably two and a half years ago this conversation and I think it's it relates to The pushback

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I might receive for the video that is about to be released today. Is that? There's an assumption here,

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I think Possibly undergirding this That we shouldn't really be vocal about it, or it's not necessary to call out false teaching and to be vocal about it

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I realize we have different platforms and we Because of that the nature of that we're gonna have different levels of influence, but we are whatever responsibility

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That's the key thing. Whatever responsibility we have whatever people are under our charge and our influence

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People that we can seek to talk to and educate and Steer clear of a false gospel.

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Whoever's in that group. We do have responsibility to them and more so as Proximity gets closer to you

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I mean if you're a father you have a responsibility to your children and to your wife, right? If you're a husband and if you're a pastor your flock, you know

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You're supposed to guard over their souls as Hebrew says and the theme we see the theme throughout the New Testament that we see is that False teaching needs to be called out.

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We have to be discerning. We have to test the spirits we have to mark a divisive person we We are supposed to publicly separate from false teachers and if we don't then we are subject to confrontation for sharing for breaking bread with them and giving the impression that we're the same because we're not the same and so That's been the thing that's concerned me

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Is that is is there really a position or a part you play because you're part of an institution that requires you then?

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And I'm talking about Christian institutions, right? That's what that's what I'm talking about. I'm saying, you know institutions that are

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Have beliefs that are At least supposed to be they pretend to be they talk about being

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Committed to the true gospel if you're part of an institution like that, whether it's a church or a parachurch Is there an option that says well we can allow some false teaching or some false teachers

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Because we're playing this long game strategy and we can go and give the impression that they're one of us

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Because we don't want to offend them and we can call them brother and we can you know, do all kinds of things to to butter them up and express our disagreements, but do so in a way that Makes it sound like those disagreements aren't really that serious

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Because you know, they're still our brother and we're still just having a great time figuring out where the differences are Is there an option for that within gospel preaching organizations?

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And the answer I think is no not if we take the New Testament seriously, we're supposed to be always on guard

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We're supposed to expect subversion We're supposed to expect false teachers to come in and I don't care what your position is

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That's not an option to just totally be silent on it to the point that you give the impression that Hey their gospel and my gospel is the same their

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Their theology and my theology is you know, we both have Good theology that's

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Orthodox. So you can't do that. That's and that's where I push back and say no What you can have all the strategies in the world.

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That's fine to have strategies. But if your strategy includes Giving the impression that someone who's a false teacher isn't actually a false teacher

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Bad strategy failing strategy and it won't work and that's my my root issue

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I think and that's what I think a lot of laymen and And and pastors as well who lack the generally pastors who lack the institutional credibility

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I think a lot of them see that and there's some people in institutions that also see that But I think broadly speaking a lot of conservatives don't see that They are afraid to they think it's too mean there's like this gentleman's code that they're operating by That assumes that false teachers aren't really false teachers and it lacks an eternal perspective it's a very temporary perspective and a lot of time it's to secure or to maintain the reputation of an institution to try and that you know

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You must not hurt the institution if you hurt the institution by calling out a false teacher there or opposing them then man

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You know, that's just rude. That's mean that's evil You don't have unity and the assumption behind all of that is that there is a unity that exists because we're all brothers

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But we're not that's the problem when you have false teachers. You're not all brothers And so someone like a scott sauls who preaches a false gospel

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I mean, what do you do with a guy like that? Well, I think you just call him out. He's a false teacher Uh, I think

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I think it's that simple. You give him a chance to repent But when he publicly puts teaching out there that's false you can publicly

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Uh try to save the people who might listen to that from going down that path or you know, try to warn them that's what we're called to do so That's kind of my issue when someone goes out there and acts like a big tough conservative because They name a theology that's bad.

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I mean that's a great step in the right direction Or they might name a movement that's bad, you know, that's a great step in the right direction but I think what we see in the new testament is there is a naming of The people who hear the warnings of paul and of john know exactly who they're talking about The descriptions are specific enough they know exactly who they're talking about and um, sometimes the names are actually named and so it's it's not left up to the imagination to speculate of well, we really got to be careful of The false social justice gospel wonder who's putting that in in the water.

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Well, we know who's putting that in the water so that's That's what I would say is is we you have to and you can't confuse the issue by then going

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And saying well we we disagree and that's a really bad and serious issue, but i'm gonna act like that's a brother i'm gonna try to um say how much

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I appreciate them and and their Astute thinking on theology or something. I mean that that's like that's counterproductive

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That's just giving mixed signals And so clarity is the important thing now. Why why is this often a strategy that's taken that?

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well, we we can outmaneuver this this stuff by Uh pretending like we're on their side just to kind of ambush them later like wait for the right moment and that's when we strike

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That's when we're gonna come out real, you know Because you see the same dynamic a similar dynamic in the republican party

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And this is secular and it's totally this totally different. I'm just it's not gospel related stuff.

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It's it's uh, it's ethics, but i'm just saying I see a similar way to operate there where it's like um a lot of Republicans who have a lot of institutional clout will

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Try to tell their donors and their base that they're super conservative And this is what you're we're gonna do if you elect us and we're we're gonna go after those pro -abortionists and we're gonna go after um

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We're gonna support the family. That's the thing they say now because they don't want to get specific on it And we're gonna support girls sports and and things they'll say all these things

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But then when they get elected generally, they don't do much uh, and Uh, and why is that why do you see so much?

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Caving and and but such strong talk initially, so, you know, tell the donors how strong we're going to be and how committed we are

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But then when it comes to practically actually exercising that we don't see it There's a lot of things that could be said.

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I don't know the exact reason Maybe you can put in the comments what you think it is, you know, just lacking backbone.

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Uh, men aren't men anymore uh, maybe in the in the church as it relates to The issue with social justice coming into christian institutions

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Is it we just have a bunch of people who aren't saved running these organizations is it? I mean so many things have been thrown out there uh to try to explain this and I have my own thoughts on it, uh, and and I think it's a combination of a lot of things but uh

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It is a hard it's a challenging thing to to figure out why that dynamic exists

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And there is a I think an incentive to try to keep the money coming in to tell the donors what they want to hear

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And they're the conservative donors, but then to do something different when you're talking to I don't know federal government and You know people who would come into your seminary to uh apply the title four regulations from the biden administration well better make sure we're you know stepping in line or or the students who are increasingly getting woke or uh, the the just the academia itself tends to run to the left and so to Kind of maintain status and institutional respect you kind of have to veer that direction um,

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I mean, that's what we've seen with a lot of these things where you'll see a chapel message or you'll see uh a An academic lecture and it's totally woke

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But then the the institution is telling all their donors that they're this orthodox great school and uh

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And the people who work there are all in you know, you think they're of the same mind and they're just not There's a disconnect.

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That's all i'm saying. There is a disconnect between the rhetoric and then what happens in practice and so What what

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I would want to see? Don't moving forward is is the guys who do take Uh have strong language

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Against some of this stuff in the abstract make it concrete And don't confuse the issue by calling false teachers your brother in christ

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Uh, you can respect them without doing that and and the respect is going to be Uh in calling out their error and then you know being direct but also being a gentleman about it that you know there's nothing personal here and uh,

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I You know would love to Be friendly with you and i'm not going to Be immature and trash talk you or say mean, you know things about you that are beyond the pale that are just name calling or uh character assassinations that are unjustified or something, but no

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I am going to Come out very clearly against the false gospel You are teaching and i'm going to call on you to publicly repent and if you do not do so then yes you

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I I will be your enemy in this denomination because we Uh or this organization because we believe in the gospel of jesus christ and we protect it at all costs and we believe that the sheep who are

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Charged to us that we're charged to care for are They they can be receptive to bad messages and we're going to protect them from those things and we're going to Make clear delineations that so that's what

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I would say needs to happen. It needs to be encouraged And if that doesn't happen if you're not seeing that you could give me all the great speeches in the world about How conservative you are doesn't really matter and so Uh, that's what we need.

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I think that's what we really need right now and and the objection has been From people with some institutional clout is john.

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You just don't understand the pressures we're under we don't want to get fired We don't want to lose those relationships. We those relationships are our lifelines.

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Those are relationships. We need those We need to make sure that we don't rock the boat You know what those relationships with especially with false teachers

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They're not worth it. They're just not worth it um they're

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Those aren't real relationships either. Those are fake If you're if you're saying you just don't want to rock the boat because you have such good relationships with these men

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That can mean one or two things either these men are uh You don't actually think they're false teachers or dangerous enough to because because you're close with them.

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You don't take it seriously or Uh, you're being disingenuous with them and you have a surface level relationship that's based on deception

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And it's not an actual relationship Uh, you're not really you're not friends with that person. You might say that but you're trying to subvert them

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You're so that that's the issue and that's the kind of tactics that the other side uses is the subversion stuff and we got to be

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We got to be vigilant about it, but we don't need to go and do the same things that they do. So That's all

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I have to say about uh what i'm expecting to be possible pushback on the video that um that you saw yesterday, which as i'm recording this has yet to be released, but uh there i'm speaking in general terms just because this audience if you followed what i'm doing i've given you a lot of specifics over the years and This applies to a number of situations.

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And so i'm not talking about one specifically. I'm just saying this is in general these are the the things that I see, uh from just observing this over the last few years and Why I think institutions tend to be compromised there is this this fraternity that is exert so much pressure

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That the people who belong to it feel as though they cannot Risk being alienated from it because they're dependent on it in some way

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Trust god trust god. That's all I say about that. You know, he will provide and um

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If we all charge at once Uh, it doesn't we're not all going to die. God's going to see it and in fact, it's been my point for a while now that if we all charged at once it would create such a

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Moment such momentum that maybe we would get something done and and that's what

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I think would be um a lot better strategy than the kind of Just lack of clarity, uh letting things continue to go downhill but uh

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Trying to wait for that best opportune spot and saying things that sound tough, but don't actually get applied to specific people

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That that's that's a failing strategy and it's been failing for a few years. So uh, pray for leaders in your church and your denominations and your organizations pray they'd have guts if you're that man and you're you know,

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Been you've been having a hard time Uh come out, you know one of the guys there's actually a bunch of guys that really inspire me along these lines.

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Um, And one of them who just came to mind is tom rush tom rush is a trustee

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I believe he's still a trustee. Maybe he's not anymore. But at the southern baptist theological seminary Man, he just came out and he just said this is what's happening there

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That was brave go go look up his video where he talks about al moeller He talks about what's happening at southern seminary.

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What a brave guy. I mean, he's risking all kinds of relationships I'm sure there's all kinds of boards and things he could have been on That will never happen now because of that but you know what he can sleep at night

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And his rewards in heaven and uh, he's just a man I respect so much. Um There's and there's many others.

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There's uh, the lutheran professor, uh that just came out recently And and talked about his experience.

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I mean what a brave guy. He doesn't care What they're going to do to him what names they're going to call him. He just cares about the truth

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And and that's the kind of people we need the people who aren't calculating for their own Aggrandizement or gain or their their network.

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I mean for those who don't know if you're in academia or really any of these uh organizations your relationships tend to be your lifeline because if you get fired you always can use a relationship to Uh get an opening somewhere else and it's not all wrong to have relationships and have openings uh that you can go into because but it should be based upon the fact that You're a good worker that they've seen your work that they either real trust real relationships

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They are not not a fake good old boys network and i'm afraid far too often It's a fake good old boys network that acts like a guild

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And that's why the same people when they're even fired for reasons related to social justice or they have to leave Uh, they end up going to other organizations like russell moore leaving the urlc for christianity today

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Uh, or karen swallow prior leaving liberty university where there was a lot of pressures He goes to southeastern or you know, there's there's a lot of examples of this kind of thing

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Uh, there's a lot of pressure on them But they end up going to another organization that's that allows them to kind of keep doing what they're doing and those relationships uh may help you maintain a career and um, and and they become the stepping stones and the

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I just saw who who was it that just I mean this happens so often people move around and that's just normal for people to move around but um, but but you could like, uh, matt hall.

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He just made a lateral move. He went from uh, southern seminary to Oh, man, where was it?

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I think it's in california. Um, I think sean mcdowell was saying how great it was that we got matt hall matt hall's a guy who was

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Um, he's kind of famous now for saying i'm a racist because I benefit from a system that allocates privilege to me

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And he was he was in line to take over for al moeller where in his position and he's now at uh, I forget what school it is now out in california, but uh, you know, they're probably

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It's it's a more i'm gonna be honest with you It's more progressive school and I don't pretend to know all his motives for it or anything.

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I just say it would make sense if this was something that it's a lateral move, but it's

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It may make sense that you go to a place that you're not going to have all those pressures on you.

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I mean it's kind of you know southern seminary now is kind of trying to I wouldn't say it's a course correct because no one's admitted any failures or sin or wrongdoing but but it's

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There's been so much pressure from people like you in this audience that they kind of have to uh

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Get away from the social justice stuff to some extent um, some of it's probably gone underground, but It's not a cool style to be pro crt anymore as it was five years ago at southern seminary.

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So uh, so anyway, I you see the relationships and uh helping people make their next move

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And get in out from an uncomfortable situation if they need to or climb the ladder or it's just It's a security blanket in many ways

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And so you don't want to damage that but I would say look there's a better security blanket out there Love the lord your god with all your heart soul mind and strength seek first his kingdom righteousness and he'll provide for you

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And you can't get a better security blanket than that and the lord's providing for russell fuller Or is providing for bobby lopez lord's lord provides he provides for those and they can sleep at night

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And which is more important to you. All right, that's all I got. That's uh, kind of my stream of consciousness for today

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Um, just things have been on my mind a little bit and I hope it benefited you in some way And I gotta go god bless we're coming next week.