September 28, 2020 Show with Peter Robinson on “The Fall of the Episcopal Church & the Rise of Biblically Faithful Episcopal Bodies” (Part 2)

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 28th day of September 2008, 2020.

And excuse me, folks, I'm fiddling with something. I just had my voice correctly leveled in the studio, and for some reason it's gotten very low again, and I don't know why. But anyway, we're going to press on.

The Fall of the Episcopal Church and the Rise of Biblically Faithful Bodies

Hopefully this situation will be rectified. Last week, I believe it was. Yes, in fact, I know it was. Last Tuesday we began part one of a discussion with our guest today, Bishop Peter Robinson, on the fall of the Episcopal Church and the rise of biblically faithful Episcopal bodies.

Today we are going to be entering into part two of that discussion with Bishop Robinson. He is the Presiding Bishop of the United Episcopal Church of North America, and it's our honor and privilege to welcome you back for the second time to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Bishop Peter D. Robinson.

Hello there, Chris.

It's great to have you back, brother. And if you could, once again, give us a summary, especially for the sake of our listeners who are hearing you for the very first time, give us a summary of the United Episcopal Church of North America.

America was, he won as a conservative.

When you say that you wanted to place the new denomination or the denomination of the United Episcopal Church of North America when it was founded in the moderate to low church category, would that be as opposed to the Anglo-Catholic tradition that also can share the title traditionalist Anglican very often, whether they legitimately do that or not?

Yes. Really, you have two traditions within the Episcopal Church.

Yes, and as we mentioned last week, it is ironic, and I've got to be careful not to broad brush our brethren in the Reformed Episcopal denomination, the Reformed Episcopal Church, but it is somewhat ironic that they were founded to counteract or to protest against the rise of Anglo-Catholicism, the Tractarian movement, the Oxford movement.

And yet today you have many in the so-called priesthood of the Reformed Episcopal Church who are themselves Anglo-Catholic and Oxford movement and Tractarian men.

That has to be rescinded into hellclaw.

I see. Well, I know that I do have friends and acquaintances who either are still in or used to be in the REC, and please forgive me if I am wrongly giving the impression to our listeners that everybody in the REC is an Anglo-Catholic or even leans that way.

I have spoken with men who are faithful Protestants and faithful Reformed Churchmen in that denomination, and so I just know that I have spoken with some, even from that very category I mentioned, who are dismayed by the inclusion of the Pussyates, the Tractarians, the Oxford movement men.

Yeah, really.

I'm sorry, I didn't understand the last statement.

You get the old church that's rather Anglo-Catholic.

In other words, you see them, as they say, climbing the candlestick too high?

One or two have. I would say that that is true of those that become weak on confessionalism in general,.

Spanning denominations and fellowships and brotherhoods. I would say that is true amongst the Baptists who have either never embraced or abandoned the 1689 London Baptist Confession, also known as the Second London Confession, or the Philadelphia Confession.

And, of course, you have a really vivid example of utter apostasy in Congregationalism, where the Savoy Declaration is no longer adhered to or even viewed as something favorable or.

Positive.

It's shunned like the plague by most who wear the title Congregationalists in this day and age. And I say most because there are biblically faithful Congregationalists. But the United Church of Christ, which has its roots in Puritanism, I believe is by and large an apostate denomination.

And then, of course, you do have some or most in the PCUSA who have abandoned the Westminster Confession. And going back to the REC, one of the reasons why this is a sensitive subject to me, I know that I have mentioned this before on my program, when my late uncle in Washington State was considering leaving the Episcopal Church over liberalism.

He was a staunch conservative. He was tinkering with the idea of becoming Roman Catholic, because I don't know if he was not aware of truly confessionally Protestant Anglican churches, or if the theological issues were above his pay grade.

I'm not really sure what the issue was with that. But I began a search for REC churches and other traditional Protestant Anglican churches near him. And I had a conversation with a Reformed Episcopal priest who mocked me and said that I was a moron for being concerned about my uncle converting to Catholicism.

And he actually said, I have more in common with my Roman Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ than with morons like you.

I was utterly shocked by that, regardless of where he's coming from.

But I was especially shocked that it was an REC pastor. I was very naive about the rise of Oxford Movement men in that denomination at the time. Yes, and of course, there are denominations and groups that give lip service to confessions that are meaningless.

I can remember years ago, my friend Michael Horton of the White Horse Inn, who is a world-renowned Reformed author in the United Reformed Church of North America, and also a faculty member at Westminster Seminary, California.

I remember years ago, back in the 90s, I believe it was, that he was interviewing Robert Schuller on the White Horse Inn, not because he was in agreement with Dr. Schuller, the late Dr. Schuller, but because he wanted to demonstrate how Dr. Schuller, although he had a profession of being Reformed, was really far from it in regard to the historicity of what that word means.

And he, during that interview, declared that he had great love for the Heidelberg Catechism and the Belgic Confession and the Canons of Dort, and had recited, by memory, great portions of these creeds.

But it was obvious that this man's theology was in polar opposite to the core of Reformed theology, which is to reveal the lowly, sinful, helpless, impotent condition of man, and the high, exalted, sovereign position of God.

I mean, he was, in fact, in one of his books, declared how one of the greatest sins of the Church was to make man aware of the sinful condition. So, there you have somebody who said, with his lips, that he had a great admiration for the three forms of unity, but in reality, much, if not most, of his own personal outworking of his theology was light years away from the Reformation.

Yeah, that happens a lot in Anglicanism.

Give our listeners our email address, and if you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Bishop Peter D. Robinson, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Please, as always, give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous. If your question involves a personal and private matter, let's say you are in a mainline Episcopal Church, do you have something critical to say about your parish or your denomination?

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There could be a lot of reasons why people might want to remain anonymous, but whatever the case is, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private.

Matter.

Otherwise, if it's just a general question on history and theology and doctrine, just give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, and our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com. And we do have a question from Bishop Robert S. Bierman, who is the Presiding Bishop of the Reformed Anglican Church. He happens to be located in Port St. Lucie, Florida. And by the way, Bishop Bierman, it just so happens that my very first pastor of Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville, Long Island, New York, now known as Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island, New York, and Merrick, New York, he now lives in Port St. Lucie, Florida, and also runs a very crucial sponsor of this program from there.

That's the Solid Ground Christian Books, and their website is solid-ground-books .com. I would strongly urge you, in fact, I'm going to make sure that I put you two in contact with each other since you're neighbors.

But Bishop Bierman, who is in a different but similar denomination than you, he says, in the book Divided We Stand by Douglas Bess, we see the history of many of those who broke away in 1977 from the Episcopal Church.

Many of today's conservative Anglican church bodies trace their roots to the affirmation of St. Louis. Back in 1996, I had a lengthy conversation with Archbishop Oliver Lewis, who was the Metropolitan of the Anglican Catholic Church at that time.

He encouraged me not to despair as he called the continuing church, the church in the wilderness. His contention was that until the original founders were retired or gone, and old rivalries forgotten, the continuing church would have a difficult time in being the church it can truly be.

Archbishop Lewis reminded me, just like the children in Israel, it would take 40 years to heal and start to grow. It had been 40 plus years, and there seems to be the beginnings of more unity. How can those of us that are biblical and consider low church get to begin to work?

Whoops, I just lost the brother's email. Oh, here it is. How can those of us that are biblical and consider low church get to begin to work really together, and for some reason it's cut off there, really together?

And is it not our theology that divides us? I'm assuming he means Anglican Catholic from biblical low church.

Okay, question first.

Our first break right now. If anybody wants to join us, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. By the way, I just want to give a plug to the denomination of our listener who sent in the question.

The Reformed Anglican Church website is reformedanglican .church, reformedanglican .church. Don't go away. We will be back right after these messages with more of Bishop Peter D. Williams, I'm sorry, Peter D. Robinson and the rise of biblically faithful Episcopalian bodies.

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And I'm sorry, folks, that we still have these problems with my audio. It's only on my end. I'm obviously the least interesting person in this conversation anyway, but for some reason my audio, and only my audio it seems, is muffled and low, lower than normal.

So please bear with me, and hopefully it will be rectified before the end of the program. Today we have as our guest Bishop Peter D. Robinson, Presiding Bishop of the United Episcopal Church of North America, a biblically faithful and confessional Episcopalian denomination.

We are discussing the fall of the Episcopal Church and the rise of biblically faithful Episcopal bodies. Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. And as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

We do have another listener with a question for you. Let's see here. We have a first-time questioner, and his name is Wayne from Wildwood, Florida. He actually has a few questions, and since they're all very good, I will ask all three of them.

I don't usually give our listeners the luxury of asking three questions, but as the church shifted over the centuries, how did the role of clergy change in the public square? Okay, we have another question from Wayne.

How have vestments changed in the biblically faithful Episcopal bodies? I actually have a follow-up question of my own about that, but if you could.

Well, basically for 300 years, the old...

Going to go now to our midway break, and fortunately, folks, these breaks come up faster than we would like, but that is the only way we remain on the air, is through our advertisers, and of course, through our generous donors and benefactors.

So if you could be patient with us, please, as we have this longer than normal break, it is because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, who airs this program in a prerecorded format twice daily, in morning drive 8 to 10 a .m. and evening 8 to 10 p .m., they need to, and according to FCC regulations, air public service announcements and other things that localize Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to Lake City, Florida.

So please use this time wisely. Write down as much of the information as you can for as many of our advertisers as you can, so you can more frequently and successfully patronize them, so that they want to remain our advertisers, because it's the only way we will remain on the air is through their funding, and also send in questions to Bishop Peter D. Robinson at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We're going to be right back with Bishop Robinson after these messages from our sponsors. Iron Sharpens Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine Christian organizations to remain on the air, like the Historical Bible Society.

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