WWUTT 2155 Q&A Did Jesus Heal a Man Twice, What is the Dorean Principle, Responding to Catholic Criticism

Psalm 18 and God Our Rock in Hardship

Why did Jesus have to heal the blind man at Bethsaida two times? What kind of fellowship can charismatics have with cessationists? And what is the Dorian principle? The answers to these questions and others when we understand the text.

This is When We Understand The Text, a daily Bible commentary to help encourage your time in the Word. Be sure to tell your friends about our ministry at www .utt .com. Here once again is Pastor Gabe.

Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. We are adding something brand new to the podcast. And I'll tell you about it here in just a moment. What a cliffhanger. That's right. But first, let's begin with a Psalm.

Yes, let's. Now, Psalm 18 is where we are. This one's much longer. This goes 50 verses, so we're not going to get that far. Okay. But let me read through at least the first six verses here. All right.

We'll spend a little bit of time in Psalm 18. He said, I love you, O Yahweh, my strength. Yahweh is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, my God, my rock in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

I call upon Yahweh, who is worthy to be praised, and I am saved from my enemies. The cords of death encompassed me, and the torrents of vileness terrified me. The cords of Sheol surrounded me. The snares of death confronted me.

In my distress, I called upon Yahweh and cried to my God for help. He heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry for help before him came into his ears. Are there some hymns that you might think of hearing the beginning of that Psalm?

Yahweh is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, my God, my rock in whom I take refuge.

Well, I think of Rock of Ages right off the bat. Yeah, Rock of Ages cleft for me.

That one came into my head too. A mighty fortress is our God. Yes, yes. That one also fits. So you can see how Psalm 18 has inspired our songwriters with some good lyrics about God being our rock and our refuge.

David's saying the cords of death encompassed me, torrents of vileness surrounded me, and they terrified me. The snares of death confronted me, but in my distress, I called upon Yahweh and cried to my God for help.

I also think of what the Apostle Paul said at the beginning of 2 Corinthians 1, where he talked to the Corinthians about, you know the stuff that we encountered when we were in Asia. We were so burdened beyond our strength that we thought we had received the sentence of death.

The persecution that they were going through for preaching the gospel, they thought, we can't endure this. Yeah, we're going to die doing this. And he said, but this taught us to rely not on ourselves, but on God who raises the dead.

Yes. So we have trials and tribulations that we go through, things in which we may feel like the cords of Sheol surrounded me and the snares of death confronted me.

Yeah, not like that song that says, I'm sure there's plenty of them, but the one in particular that, you give me so much that I bend, but I don't break. No, he gives us enough that we break, that we trust in him fully.

Well, that's that saying, God will never give us more than we can handle. Yes. Yeah, he will. Yes. He'll give you more than you can handle so that you turn to the one who can handle it. Right.

So you realize you can't handle it. Right. Yeah, like, yeah.

And you turn to and trust in God, the one who raises the dead.

That's how I got saved. That's my testimony right there.

So we'll come back to more of Psalm 18 next week, but a good reminder that things in life will get really, really hard. Yeah. And you can certainly feel like you've received the sentence of death. It's not like you failed to trust God somewhere.

Right. If you encounter a scenario that's more than you can handle, it's so you will rely on God who raises the dead. So like it says in 1 Peter,.

In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials so that the tested genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold, that perishes though it is tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Amen.

Voicemail Questions, the Reformed Companion App, and Cessationist Fellowship

Yes. We've been going through a 1 Peter study with a friend of yours. I have. We're going to hear from that friend here in just a moment. We are. So this has to do with my announcement. I'm excited. Something new that we've added to the podcast here.

You can now leave us voicemail. Uh-huh. And you can do it straight from your phone or your computer. Now I've been doing some work on the website lately. The whole time we were living in Texas, I basically left the website by the wayside.

Yeah, as is. I did not do much with it. So I've gone in and made some improvement, made some adjustments. And one of the things that I've done is I've added a link to voicemail. Uh-huh. So you can leave us a message that we can air on the podcast.

Maybe if you want to record your question.

Rather than email it. Yeah, because sometimes it's easier to talk through it than it is to type it out. Yeah. For me anyway. And how many people are using email for more than junk these days? Right. It seems like.

So another convenient way. Don't look at my inbox number.

Oh, I know what your inbox number is. So another convenient way to get us your question or comment. Yes. Go to www .tt .com. Uh-huh. And you'll notice right there in the menu at the top of the page, there's a link that says voicemail.

Yeah. So click on that, record your question from either your phone or your computer, whatever mic that you have in your personal device will suffice to record your voice and get the message to us. Just make sure it's not windy.

That might take away from it. Windy. Yes. Yeah. Where all you hear is.

There you go. Yeah. Living in Kansas and trying to talk on the phone outside. It's so bad. That was rough. You had to find a nice little corner and like huddle up.

So we have our first question here. Let's do our first voicemail message ever. And it's our friend, Sonia. Yay. There you go. Okay. So this once again, as I give a plug for the Friday episode, this is the Friday edition of the broadcast where we take questions from the listeners and you can send those questions to when we understand the text at gmail .com or you can now voicemail us at the website by going to www .utt .com.

Here is our question. Our first question today. Hello, Gabecki. Greetings from Texas.

I sure do miss y 'all. I've got a question for you. On most accounts of Jesus healing people in Mark, he touches or speaks to them once and they are immediately and completely healed. The leper in chapter one, paralytic in chapter two, the man with the withered hand in chapter three.

But things are different for the blind man in chapter eight. Why is that? What, if anything, are we to learn from this? This is Sonia.

Great question, Sonia. Yeah. And thank you for being our guinea pig so we can test and make sure this voicemail thing works well. Yeah. I thought that was awesome. That was great. That was a great question.

Yeah, good question. Now you're, of course, jumping the gun a little bit because I'm still in Mark four. So we're jumping ahead to chapter eight. And let me go back from the miracle that Jesus does in healing the blind man.

Let me skip back to about verse 13 here. Okay. So we'll start reading in verse 13. Leaving them, he again embarked and went away to the other side. This is Jesus going to the other side of the lake. Verse 14.

And they had forgotten to take bread, they being the disciples, and did not have more than one loaf in the boat with them. And he was giving orders to them, saying, Watch out, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod.

And they began to discuss with one another the fact that they had no bread. And Jesus, aware of this, said to them, Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet perceive or understand?

Do you have a hardened heart? Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear? And do you not remember? When I broke the five loaves for the 5 ,000, how many baskets full of broken pieces you picked up?

They said to him, 12. When I broke the seven for the 4 ,000, how many large baskets full of broken pieces did you pick up? And they said to him, 7. And he was saying to them, Do you not yet understand?

And they came to Bethsaida, and they brought a blind man to Jesus and pleaded with him to touch him. And taking the blind man by the hand, he brought him out of the village, and after spitting on his eyes and laying his hands on him, he was asking him, Do you see anything?

And he looked up and was saying, I see men, for I see them like trees walking around. Then again, he laid his hands on his eyes, and he looked intently and was restored and began to see everything clearly.

And Jesus sent him to his home saying, Do not even enter the village. So what did you see there? Why would I have gone back the way that I did to verse 13 to read from there into the miracle of Jesus healing the blind man?

Disbelief. Okay, right. What did Jesus say in there about seeing?

Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear?

Correct. And that actually we read the same Old Testament passage. Jesus is quoting the Old Testament there. And we heard that same thing in the parable of the sower this week. So it's in the parable of the sower when the disciples ask Jesus, why do you speak to them in parables?

And Jesus said to them, To you it has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but to those who are outside, everything comes in parables. So that while seeing, they may see and not perceive. And while hearing, they may hear and not understand, lest they return and be forgiven.

So here is the disciples are talking to Jesus about the bread and not understanding what it means when Jesus says, Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of Herod. Jesus quotes back to them that same passage.

Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear? So don't you understand these things? Why do I have to explain this to you? They've seen, but they don't understand it. They've not yet been able to perceive what it is that they've seen with their own eyes.

So the healing of the blind man demonstrates that something more has to happen than you just being able to see with your eyes.

Yeah. Like the Holy Spirit has to come upon you in order for you to understand.

Right. It's like said in 1 Corinthians 2 .14 that the naturally minded man can't understand spiritual things. So Jesus heals the blind man once and he can see, but he doesn't understand what he sees. And we've come to recognize this through modern medicine that if a person is given their sight for the first time, that it takes more than just restoring their eyes.

You have to teach the brain how to process the images that the eyes are seeing. Right. So when Jesus heals this man, that's what he does essentially the first time. He spits on him and lays his hands on him.

I saw you make a face when I read that part. I mean, it's Jesus, so it's fine.

That's right. I'm getting my vision restored. I'm not complaining about this. But I'm just thinking about all the women when I was little, like they would lick their thumb and clean my face like ew. Yeah, right.

So anyway. The spit bath. Not the same, not the same, but that's where my mind went.

Anyway. We called that a spit bath back in those days. Yep, so gross. That was wonderful. So anyway, Jesus. You're welcome. Jesus heals his eyes. He can see, but he doesn't know what it is that he sees.

Okay. So Jesus touches him again. And then it says he looked intently and was restored and began to see everything clearly. So Mark does this. He'll put stories in succession like this that all have a main theme.

So there with the disciples saying to them, do you see and you're not able to perceive? And then Jesus shows through the healing of the blind man that it takes more than just seeing, but one must be given the spiritual ability to be able to perceive spiritual things.

Yeah. What's going to come next is Jesus asking his disciples, who do you say that I am? And they confess that he's the Christ. And of course they only understand that because it's been revealed to them by God.

So that's the succession of accounts that Mark is giving there. And that's why we see with that particular miracle. And just like Sonia said, every other miracle, Jesus speaks to them or touches them and they're immediately healed.

With this man, it's almost like, well, why didn't it work the first time? Right. Why did you have to heal him twice? Right. Because the point is to recognize that it takes more than just seeing with your eyes to understand.

And through this miracle, Jesus is showing that God not only gives you eyes to see, but even the spirit to understand and perceive. That is the work of God in the life and heart of a believer.

Yeah. And I don't know very many people back then would understand that it doesn't come together. So if you see, you understand. Yeah. Versus those are two separate things, which now we understand because the Lord has revealed that in science and everything.

But back then, they didn't have all the technology that we do that the Lord has blessed us with.

People didn't have their sight restored like this.

And exactly, until the Bible says. And so I don't know if they would understand that those are two separate things.

I think it would be less than saying that we understand this now than they understand it then. I think there's just another way in which God has revealed to us that scripture is universally applicable.

Right. That's true. We can see even 2 ,000 years later, there's something that happens in our world today that we can look back at this passage and go, wow, even science confirms what it is that Jesus is doing here.

Precisely. Yeah, right. Exactly.

So I just think that's neat. But my question then is not necessarily that because I probably wouldn't have thought of that. Thank you, Sonia, for this. But do not even enter the village. Why?

Well, this was still with regards to like, don't tell anybody who I am. Oh, OK. OK. Because it wasn't yet time for them to know. To reveal. Right. OK. So even as the disciples later on are going to say that you are the Christ, Jesus says to them that now's not the time for people to know that.

So verse 30, he warned them to tell no one about him. Got it. OK.

That makes sense. Yeah. I just didn't know where that was in the timeline. But thank you.

Thank you for your question, Sonia. Yes, thank you. Being the first to send us a voicemail. A fun voicemail question. And once again, you go to www .utt .com, you click on voicemail, which is on the menu at the top of the page, and it will take you to a place where you just have to hit record,.

Leave your message, and the program will do the rest. Simple as that. To get it to us. Now, does it leave like a delete? Like if you mess up, you can delete? Yeah, you can. And rerecord? I'd probably be hitting that thing five times.

Somebody's going, I called Becky babe and that's weird, so let me change it to something else. I liked her go Becky. Go Becky. This next question, or it's a comment rather, comes from Robert. He says, hey, Pastor Gabe and Becky, great recommendation on the Reformed app.

Remember talking about that last week? I searched for that phrase on Google Play because the way it comes up in my phone is Reformed app. That's the label on my phone. Yeah. So that's the way we were plugging it last week.

Right. And it's not that, is it? Yeah, Robert said, the first choice was Kingdomnomics, and one of the tabs was Supernatural Lifestyle, which for me is a red flag, like Bethel Supernatural School of Ministry.

Right. So he says, the actual app we want is Reformed Companion. There you go. Excellent app. Thank you for all that you do. Well, I appreciate you letting us know.

That's the name you want to be searching for. Yes, that'll help narrow it down.

Reformed Companion contains various Reformed confessions. So like the Heidelberg Catechism, Westminster Confession, the 1689 London Baptist Confession, there are various catechisms, like for example, Catechism for Kids, with some very, very basic questions that kids can memorize.

It's a great app. Or you can start with. That's right. I probably read it maybe once every other day or something like that. Oh, really? I'm always reading something in it because I have read through the Westminster Confession, but I don't know it as well.

So reading something like that or going through the Catechism, it's a great companion. I use it probably second to my Bible apps. Yeah. And then like when we're doing a Sunday night service and Chris has been teaching through the Catechism questions regarding the Ten Commandments.

Yes. I can just pull it right up on my phone and I'm following right along with the questions that he's reading. Yeah, that's awesome. Next question comes from Chris in North Carolina. Good afternoon, Pastor Gabe and Becky.

I enjoyed last week's episode and wanted to weigh in on the question from the listener in Hawaii regarding non-continuous hymn writers. These are not mainstream, but I wanted to get them out to the church at large as I believe that they are worthy resources.

My former pastor, Joe Hanson III, has a website called Declaring Glory where he has several new hymns that he wrote. A couple of my favorites are No Wrath Left For Me and I Stand Resolved. Another hymn writer that I know is Chris Anderson who hosts Church Works Media.

Not only does he write hymns, but he also collaborates with others to produce devotionals. I've gone through several of his gospel meditations, which are 31-day devotionals. His hymns include His Robes For Mine and I Run To Christ.

As a follow-up to the question, are the Gettys continuous? I never got the sense that they were in that camp. Thanks again for the podcast ministry. It is always a blessing to hear y 'all. Aww. Chris from North Carolina.

Great use of y 'all. I can always expect that from someone in the South. So regarding the question concerning the Gettys, I'm not sure. I don't know if they're continuous or cessationist. I know that the church that they are a part of, that they attend in Ireland, they had on their website at one point that their founding pastors were a husband and wife.

And she was referred to as a pastor in the story that they were telling about the founding of that church. Well, I've since looked that up and it's changed. And she's not called a pastor anymore. So I wonder if that was just one of those technical things, kind of like the one email that we read.

Well, it's this one from Chris. He addresses it as, Good afternoon, Pastor Gabe and Becky. You're not a pastor. Right. I am. But is it one of those things where it kind of carried over to her name also?

Yeah, it could have. And the church may not have been egalitarian, but it just kind of appeared that way in the way that they shared the story about the founding of the church. But if you go to their website now, there's nothing like that.

And none of the pastors on staff are women. So that may have just been a snafu or one of those semantic things. Right. Because it doesn't seem like they're in that place anymore. Now, if you go to the Sing conference and you see the people that are involved in Sing, there's a lot of charismatic

A lot. Singers that partner with the Gettys in that. Yeah. So where they stand as far as like cessationist or continuationist, I'm not really sure. And by the way, Chris is responding to the question that we had answered last week about do we know any cessationist hymn writers or songwriters?

Right. Because it does seem like a lot of them are continuous. And when they're continuous, they sometimes tend to go the way of like Hillsong Bethel and Elevation. Yeah. Partnering with those groups.

But like I said last week, I don't think we can pass judgment on that until it happens. Right. There are people, I mean, friends of mine who are even continuous in their preaching that I would not break fellowship with.

And in fact, I might even let preach in my pulpit. Now, if it comes to having them preach on 1 Corinthians 14, I wouldn't let them do that. But if we're just getting together and he's maybe going on to the next passage that I'm preaching through in 2 Timothy or something like that, yeah, I think that would be great.

And just because we disagree on the application or the continuation of spiritual gifts today, though we may disagree on that, I just don't agree that the miraculous sign gifts are in regular use anymore.

Yeah. But that's no cause for us to break fellowship. And even John MacArthur, though he is the cessationist guy, people know him as kind of the elite cessationist because of the Strangefire Conference from a decade ago.

Oh, yeah. And yet at the most recent Shepherds Conference, he had John Piper there who is not cessationist at all. Now, I probably wouldn't have John Piper preach for different reasons. It would not be for the continuationism stuff.

But nonetheless, you can see there how even a cessationist and a continuous can have a continuing relationship with one another. Yeah. And that's not a reason to break fellowship. Nice play on words. Yep.

You're welcome. You're welcome for that one. And again, where the Gettys stand, I'm not real sure. They stand for Christ. That's right. My daughter went to a Gettys concert last year. It's not like I write off the Gettys.

I still listen to their music. Sang one of their songs at Easter this year. Yeah. And one of my daughter's favorite songs is a Gettys song. Mm-hmm. It's the one, we will stand as children of the promise.

I believe the song is called By Faith. By faith we see the hand of God in the light of creation's grand design. Oh, yeah. Uh-huh. So anyway. Yeah, I think so.

Mariah, that's one of her favorite songs. Yes. And she will sing it at the top of her lungs. That's right.

Now, of course, the continuationism or the charismaticism can go too far. And that's where you get into Bethel and some of those other groups. Yeah. But the problems in their doctrine are well beyond their charismaticism.

The Dorean Principle and Free Christian Ministry

Mm-hmm. It's that the charismaticism has bled into other things that are just downright heretical. Yeah. So that's why we would avoid those groups. It's not strictly because they're charismatic. This next question comes from Jackson.

Hi, Gabe and babe. Hi. There has been a buzz here in the Philippines. Ooh. About the book titled Dorian Principle by Conley Owens. The supporting verse for this book slash principle is from Matthew 10, eight.

I would like to know your thoughts on this book. You guys are a blessing. Hope to see you at ShepCon 2025. All five. Praying for your needs. Our God owns the cattle on a thousand hills. PS, how can I treat you to pizza?

Ooh. So another way that you can give to us is by going to our website. Once again, www .tt .com. If you click on contact, there's information there under contact about if you want to send us a gift, this is a way that you can do it.

So Jackson, if you'd like to donate 10 or 20 bucks or something like that for us to get a pizza.

Sure. I'll take it. I'm not sure how that transfers from Filipino.

Oh, I'm sure PayPal or Venmo or whatever it is. Yeah. I'm sure that they do the transfer, the currency transfer. Sure. Okay. And I don't have to do the math on figuring out what that would be. Yeah, I don't know.

Well, I know that's gotta be the case because we've received donations from other parts of the world before. That's true. It's gonna convert the dollars for us. All right, let me come here to Matthew 10, 8.

Jesus says, heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons, freely you received, freely give. Now I will tell you that I've not read the Dorian principle. I've heard about it, but I haven't read the book.

From what I understand, the basic principle is that you would do ministry not expecting any monetary gain. It's about being co-laborers rather than exchanging goods and services. And that's one of the reasons why we, as when we understand the text, have made this completely free.

Sure. And I've said repeatedly from the beginning, as much as I can help it, we won't ever charge for this. The podcast will be free, the videos will be free. I appreciate when somebody contacts me and says, did you know that so-and-so is using your videos for money?

Or that this video that you have on YouTube now has ads on it? Because I don't do that on purpose. Right. I do have my channel monetized, but the reason why I have it monetized is so YouTube can't do it without my knowing.

Because what had happened, well, I just kind of avoid the whole monetization thing altogether. Yeah. But then I found out that YouTube was sticking ads on my videos and I didn't know how to get them off.

And the only way I could do that was to monetize my channel and turn off the monetization. So that now by default, when I upload a video, it's turned off so that ads won't automatically go to it. YouTube was trying to capitalize on my viewership.

Yep. And I didn't want YouTube to get any money. It's not like I didn't want them to get my money. I just didn't want them to get any money. Yeah. So I turned off the monetization feature. I monetized my channel so I could demonetize it.

Right. And keep it that way. That's right. Now, if you do find a video with ads on it, that's probably because something in the video is copyrighted. Right. And it could be like video footage or the music bed or something like that.

And I just didn't know it before I uploaded the video. Sometimes YouTube will catch it when you upload it. And it will tell you, like it'll give you a check mark and say Now it does. It used to not though.

Yeah, of course. That's because their systems become more advanced. Right. So sometimes it will tell you, yeah, there's copyrighted material here. And if that happens, I will take the video down before it's ever published.

I'll take it down. I'll find whatever it is that I need to change and change it and then try to re-upload it. But sometimes I'll upload the video. YouTube will clear it. They will say there's no copyright infringement.

But then several days later, it says that there is. And I don't know if that's the algorithm that found it or somebody comes along and goes, no, that's my material. And they flag it. Yeah. And that might be the reason why.

So I'm not sure. I don't know why that happens exactly. But some videos do end up that way. When we did our end of the year countdown, the top 10 biggest videos for 2023, I had changed a music bed in one of those videos because it had been flagged as copyrighted.

So I took the bed out entirely and I put a new music bed on it. Well, then when I uploaded that video, YouTube cleared it. It's like, okay, great. Now I don't have to worry about ads popping up on this video.

But if you go watch the top 10 videos of 2023, there's ads on it. Another video in there got flagged, a completely different video. Of course. So that's how that happens sometimes. But yeah, like I said, I'm trying to do this all for free.

The way that I've approached this is that our church takes good care of us. Yes. And has provided for all of our needs. Every church that I've worked for, as long as I've been a pastor, I don't need anything more than I'm being given.

And so I want those things, I want them to be ad free. I want them to be completely free. Nobody has to pay anything to use this. It's the gospel. Right. It is a privilege for me to be able to teach it, that I work for a church that encourages it, that I can do it more.

Sunday's not enough. Can I teach the Bible more this week somehow? And so being able to do the podcast has been my outlet for being able to preach more. Of course, evangelism and things like that too.

But this is an actual sitting down and opening your Bible and being able to teach the scriptures. And again, I don't want to charge for that. Now, having said that though, there are a lot of podcasts out there.

A lot of podcasts that are charging to listen to them. A lot of Christian podcasts. And we've talked about that, become part of our Patreon or something like that. And then you're unlocking access to all this other kind of stuff.

But listen, that's between them and God. And I don't fault them for doing that. If that's what they want to do, that's fine. That's just not my conviction. It's not what I want to do. Basically, as I understand it, once again, the Dorian principle is to preach the word, but not put a price on it.

And that's what I try to do with the ministry that I do. If some of these other ministries do that, it's fine. The Dorian principle is more kind of a suggestion. It's more of a wisdom aspect. It's not a law that God has imposed.

And so therefore it's wrong for any of these other Christian teachers to charge for their material. It might be wrong for some of them, but that's not for me to judge. I don't pay for any of those services.

I only ever use any of those services out there that are free. And then if I feel so inclined, I will give a donation to them. For example, I love RefNet. Yes. I listen to the Reformation Network. I probably pull that app up five to 10 times a week, you know, anywhere in that span.

And it's free internet radio. Yeah. It's great Reformed Bible teaching that has been compiled and put together by Ligonier. And I've made this suggestion to multiple ministries. I've said to multiple ministries, you ought to put together a free radio app, just like RefNet does.

And you can have different teachers and a different style of music so that you're not copying what RefNet does. Right. But you're doing, the concept is the same. They have free internet radio. You're doing free internet radio.

And yes, there's going to be some cost to that because apps are expensive. Yes. But I believe that if you're faithful, God will provide. Right. And if you have other aspects of your ministry that cost money, well, then maybe the Lord is providing for the cost of the app through those other things.

But put something out there for free and it gets the ministry outreach out there better than if you were doing like a plus app, you know, like Disney Plus or, you know. Oh, yeah. So you generally have to pay for those plus apps.

Right. I'm saying don't. Just do a free internet radio thing that anybody can access. And some of the ministries that I've talked to about it will put out apps. Like I'll talk to them before they even have an app.

Mm-hmm. And I'll watch and they'll put out an app and they charge for it. And I never follow up, but I just kind of want to send an email like, guys, no, this is not what we talked about. Yeah. Free radio, free internet radio.

Mm-hmm. And Ligonier doesn't charge for RefNet. But when I listen to RefNet, I am so spiritually blessed by the work that they put into that, that occasionally I send a donation to Ligonier. Mm-hmm.

And God will provide for that ministry. And it's not that I'm paying what I think that, you know, the money that I'm getting out of listening to Ligonier. I love that they make this for free. I want them to be supported.

And I think many other people are going to benefit by listening to the Reformation Network. Mm-hmm. Being able to get great teachers like Sinclair Ferguson and John MacArthur and R .C. Sproul and Steve Lawson and all the different preachers that they play.

Yeah. There's been so many Ligonier conferences over the decades that they're taking messages from those Ligonier conferences and playing them on there. That's so smart. Yeah. And so ministries that have been around for a long time like that, you could create an app and have your ministry being plugged through that app with free internet radio.