June 26, 2017 Show with Dr. James R. White on “Dr. James R. White In His Own Words: A Detailed Summary by the Man Himself of His Actual Understanding of, Mission to, & Affection Toward the Muslim People”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio

platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron.

So one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour.

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions.

Now, here's our host.

Good.

Afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the

planet earth who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron Radio .com.

This is Chris Arns and your host of iron sharpens iron wishing you all a happy Monday on this 26th day

of June 2017.

I am so delighted after a very long absence from iron sharpens iron that we have

returning as a guest today Dr. James R. White who is an elder of the Phoenix Reformed

Baptist Church in Phoenix, Arizona? director of Alpha and Omega ministries host of the dividing line

bi -weekly broadcast sometimes tri -weekly New Testament Greek scholar

world -renowned Christian apologist seasoned debater and highly sought -after Conference speaker and author of

numerous books including what every Christian needs to know about the Quran.

Today a dr. White is addressing.

Dr. James R. White in his own words as detailed summary by the man himself of his

actual understanding of Mission to an affection toward the Muslim people and it's my

honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron.

Dr. James R. White.

Yeah, and I wish it could be under better circumstances that you're back

yes.

You know The the thing that I keep hearing a lot about I even posted this on

Facebook.

I've been hearing a lot about lately is the concept of taqiyyah that we

should not trust Muslims because taqiyyah is apparently a.

Quranic.

Allowance for Muslims to deceive Those outside of

the Islamic faith under certain circumstances and this has been

repeated often by by Professing Christians, especially those in apologetics ministries

to make us all distrust any and all Muslims.

But I think it's quite interesting that we have a lot of Christian taqiyyah quote -quote going on here

because people think it's completely acceptable to grossly exaggerate and

slander.

You.

Because they think that the ends justify the means for some higher purpose that they believe

is going on here in regard to defending Christianity and the free world from Islam, but

if you could tell us about how this all started since the

The writing of your book in the publishing of your book what every Christian needs to know about the Quran.

That is a book that seems to be Universally Accepted as an excellent book even by

your strongest critics, which is very odd.

But in fact even before you wrote that book going all the way back to I know that

you don't count it.

But it's your first right your first debate that I organized With your your very first Muslim debate with

Hamza Abdul Malik on the deity of Christ.

You don't count that because at that time you were defending the Christian position on the deity of

Christ from the scriptures and knew Not nearly what you know today on Islam.

So I understand why you don't really count that as one of your Muslim debates.

But if you could trace the origins of how this eventually came to what we have going on now.

Well at first everyone needs to understand that Chris is not talking about taqiyah.

He was talking about taqiyah.

There's there's there's an alcoholic drink.

I think a lot of people are really confused that particular point in time and we really.

You need to be clear.

You need to clarify that I haven't touched a key in quite a long time.

Yeah, okay, so where do you.

Where do you begin.

Let's just try to lay a foundation here.

As of I think last year the year before last the number of debates moderated public debates.

I've done with Muslims.

Is is now the largest number?

Roman Catholics had been the largest group.

Thanks to you primarily for many years, but Especially since I've been going down to South Africa

a lot and doing a lot of debates in London I've now done more moderate public debates

with Muslims around the world than with Roman Catholic.

Wow, so.

Yeah, I'm over over 40 now.

I'm getting close to one more and I'll be at 160 moderate public debates around the world.

So.

Um.

Obviously has become an area of focus for me.

But you know, I really nothing has changed as far as I'm concerned outside of maybe

maybe starting about Seven years ago.

I I started to realize that if I could sit down and talk

With my opponent maybe over lunch or dinner or something before the debate It had it it

had a huge impact upon the actual debate itself.

It made the debate much much better.

It would it would lower the the temperature shall we say of the rhetoric and it would greatly

Make the debate much more useful and I even noticed Audience questions would better because

they would see that the the two people up front had a respect for one another had a relationship with one another

so I guess something did change there and I just Realized that if you if you

know the person you're talking to and you've Expressed to them what your desires are why you do

this?

They know that you're a human being you're not just there to to beat up on them.

Then we completely changed the character of of these encounters and so

I started doing that with Adnan Rashid in Dublin a number of years ago

and Every time I have that opportunity it just really completely changes things and

so I Certainly, you know if I have changed it's it's I

desire to be much more Gracious and kind

I want to be I want to get myself out of the way.

So if the message of the gospel and the message of the Christian faith can be the primary thing I

I don't matter so I want to get out of the way.

It's not me.

It's it's not anything about me it's I want the message to be there so but as far as as

What we've been doing and the message that we've had in the response have been giving to Islam.

Nothing has changed at all.

And in fact starting about 2006 2007 I did my first formal Muslim

debate as you pointed out with Shabir Ali at Biola University in 2006 and so that's when my

I really started digging into studying Arabic and and and studying Islam and the Quran

and reading the Hadith and so on and so forth and It was in that context that I was

put in contact by Shabir Ali With Sheikh Yasir Qadhi.

Now Yasir Qadhi at that time would have been identified as a Salafi scholar very

conservative younger individual and I was put in contact by Shabir

Ali.

I wrote to him and he sent me His 16 CD series light and

guidance and as he said in the dialogue that we had in Memphis about half year ago now, which is

the cause of all this controversy.

He said he just sort of expected.

I just you know, put the CDs in my shelf and that would be it.

Well, he was wrong.

I converted them to mp3.

I listened to them while writing I listened to them more than once while writing because I found it absolutely fascinating.

This is this is actually Yasir Qadhi teaching other Muslims about Islam his his

He is memorized the Quran in Arabic his Arabic is very good and that was very helpful as I'm studying

Arabic at that time and I learned things that I had not seen or heard of any anyplace else.

Because this is a Muslim talking to Muslims not a Muslim trying to talk to Christians and There's an

absolutely nothing new at all about my going to original sources.

I learned when I first started studying Mormonism as literally as a teenager.

That that's what you need to do.

If you're going to be honest You're going to be consistent.

You go to the original sources you find out what Mormons actually believe by Talking to Mormons and by reading Mormon books and you

find out what Jehovah's Witnesses believe by getting their books and and Documenting your sources and I never I

never took a class where someone said this is what you need to do.

It just seemed to me to be the proper and appropriate way of doing things to accurately represent others.

Especially because I would say hey, you know when someone misrepresent me I'm like, hey, you can find out what I believe we need to be

accurate and truthful here.

And so if I'm going to say that then I need to extend that same thing to somebody else.

Well, evidently.

If you actually believe that in practice that you're in you're in a rather small minority in the world today.

But we'll we'll get to that another point excellent opportunity for me in listening to

yasser khadi to hear a Salafi Muslim Lecturing other

Muslims now.

I recognize there, you know, Salafi is a sub subset of the Sunni.

I recognize this is just one part of Islam.

You've got the Shiites obviously, you've got the Ahmadi which not really considered Muslims by the other other

branches, but Are very much in that that realm as well.

So I've always recognized that there is a range of Muslim

of Islam expressed out there just like there is a range of what calls itself Christianity and you have to find

out you know, who am I talking to?

What's the well give an example?

You know that Chris Arndt and wants to say it's first because Chris is Chris.

I.

Will do Malik that's right to Quran

only Muslim now.

He's a Quran only Muslim.

He's no longer Sunni.

He doesn't accept the authority to Hadith.

He dresses in Western clothing.

Is he not a Muslim anymore?

Well the Sunni might say that he's not.

I think he would say that he is.

But the point is that that I've never labored under the misconception

that there is a Monolithic Islam that there's just one one Islam and all Muslims believe the same

thing and and they can all just be put into one big bucket because I just realized that they're rational you you can't

take a billion people and Ignore the differences that exist between them.

I've always taught everybody even when you're talking to Mormons Jehovah's Witnesses, for example.

For years I thought there's a much broader Expression of Mormonism than there is Jehovah's

Witnesses of belief because it's you know A lot of control much wider

range of opinions amongst Mormons.

Well, I've only gotten worse and worse over time my goodness In the sense that Mormonism is is has

fallen on really hard time.

Shall we say but That's just always been a part of how I have functioned and so so much of this controversy

It's come up over the past couple of weeks.

I find just to be completely amazing because you know, I'm being accused of having

Compromised being a useful idiot all the rest of stuff and all I'm doing is the same things I've been doing for 30

years or more in ministry.

I'm just making consistent application and it's I Guess just come to people's attention that

I think the most important thing that we need to do is communicate the gospel of folks.

So anyway to make long story short.

Which is already a long story to begin with?

Back.

You know, I should have looked up the date.

I think it was January wasn't it?

Was it was January this year?

I.

Went to a couple of different places and I I drove down to Memphis, Tennessee and I

Years ago I had attempted I had spoke with dr. Cotty.

He wasn't doctor yet.

He was working on his doctor at that time and I Tried to convince him to write a book with me on

the differences between a believing Muslim and a believing Christian and He almost did

but said he had to finish his doctorate first.

And so he didn't do that.

And so we would you know, most the time I would be the one who would email him with a question.

But sometimes just out of the blue I'd get an email from him and he'd ask a question about Christianity like I'm gonna be at

this Dialogue what's difference between a Lutheran and Methodist?

You know type of a thing and so I Contacted him and

what had happened was about I don't know a year and a half two years ago I had seen an

article appear on the Internet That was specifically designed in my opinion.

I'll stand by this was specific design.

To make it look like he was some kind of jihadi

hiding in Memphis just waiting to jump out and open fire with an ak -47 or something

and It was written in such a way as to as to try to create division by saying he believes that

Christians are filthy.

And it was all meant to make him just look as bad as possible.

Well, I've realized a couple things.

First of all, I had realized that Yasir Qadhi was moving away from the Salafi perspective.

I had called him a Salafi scholar in my book and about I don't know two three months after the book came out I hear

an interview with him on NPR someplace saying well, I really wouldn't use that terminology myself anymore.

I'm like, oh great but I Knew the exact

sources from which this article had been drawn and it was a Lecture on

shirk.

Shirk is the unforgivable sin in Islam.

Shirk is association of anyone or anything with the law and Most Muslims believe that we as Christians are guilty

of shirk.

We're mushy coolant.

We we associate Jesus with God and therefore we are guilty of this Unforgivable sin

unforgivable in the sense of you die without having repented of it.

You can never be forgiven there is a possibility of in Islamic theology and

so I had Responded to this article because you know, I I

knew what Yasir Qadhi had been saying and I knew what the I'd listened to his

lecture than at least twice and So I point out the dividing line.

Hey.

This is a misrepresentation of him in the sense that you're trying to make it sound like this is some terrible horrible thing.

The reality is what he's saying is is it because Christians are guilty of shirk.

Anyone who engages in idolatry is not right with God and therefore is Negus

they are filthy in God's sight.

Well, I'm like, excuse me.

Anybody read the book of Isaiah, right?

You know, I know all our righteous deeds or is what filthy rags before the Lord.

I mean all he's doing is giving a consistent Islamic

understanding of the fact that idolatry is a sin before God and They accused us

of idolatry if I if I can't understand what it is they're saying about us.

How can I ever interact with them about how can I ever?

Explain to them that we're not actually engaged in idolatry that the Trinity isn't shirk.

How can I do that if I won't listen to him and allow him to define his own position.

So I did a segment on the dividing line basically saying, you know, this is just attempting to

Erect barriers, how are we ever supposed to talk to these folks who won't listen to what they're saying won't let them define their own beliefs.

I disagree with what he's saying, but I understand what he's saying.

And here's what I'd say in response.

Basically is what I did well, dr. Cotty had seen that and He had appreciated

the the fact that that I attempted to fairly Not defend his

position But defend his right to have his position and therefore to be able to interact with it in a meaningful fashion.

Which is all I've ever done.

I mean You know in the Roman Catholic debates that we've done I'm not sitting up there trying to

create a straw man of what Rome actually teaches.

I want to actually Accurately represent what the Roman Catholic Church teaches because that's just simply how you do Christian

apologists.

That's right.

In fact, in fact you whenever you have debated a Roman Catholic author.

You always made sure you read what the person had published.

Oh, yeah.

Exactly, that's that's that it's just necessary.

It's you have to do it.

So basically, what happened is I contacted him I said look I'm gonna be in the Memphis area and

What would you think about getting together and having a discussion? in regards to

What it's like to be an American Muslim.

We can we can and and from the beginning and Joshua will tell you this from the beginning.

It's like James I I don't do debates.

I You would have so much of an advantage, you know so much about you know, he's been very kind to saying I know a lot about Islam

and You're a Christian scholar.

He says I don't know anything about Christianity and You'd have a huge advantage.

I said I'm not talking about debate I'm talking about a discussion where we lay these things out.

You can explain where you're coming from and so.

Eventually and and with some fear and trepidation on his part.

Because we had to we had to you know Have a few phone conversations and I understand why I mean given

given how I'm now being treated by his people and I know how He's treated by his people.

I can see why he was a little bit concerned From the start to be willing to trust somebody to actually

do what I was saying.

I would I would actually do but we we scheduled this meeting and I reached out to

the folks in Memphis and Grace Bible Church said, you know, hey, we'll love

we'll we'll let you do that here.

And I want to make sure everyone understands this.

This was not a church service.

This is a ticketed event.

You had to have tickets to get in.

They weren't sold.

They were free.

But we only had so much room.

So it was a ticketed event, which means every single person that walked through that door Wanted to be

there and they wanted to hear a Christian Muslim dialogue.

They wanted to hear that that that they weren't walking in thinking they're attending a church service and ended up getting preached

to by an imam.

Or something that's that that's what people are trying to say happen.

You know, it's it's CNN all over the place, but

so we scheduled it and then we were able through his travel schedule changing and stuff

to Schedule the second night at the Muslim at the Memphis Islamic Center.

Where he's the imam and so we did two nights and it's fascinating almost 99 of the

criticism that I've received for this has been focused on the first night almost nothing on the second night at

all and We got together and I started off

and I made it very very very clear that This is a

believing Muslim and a believing Christian.

We are not here to compromise our beliefs.

We are here to explain our beliefs to try to understand what each other is is actually

believing and in the midst of all the misrepresentations and all the emotion and all everything else is out there and

Obviously the first night at the church, I primarily asked dr. Coddy questions

About his faith and about where he's coming from and what it's like to live as a Muslim in the United States and

and we Touched it.

No, don't get me wrong.

We we touched on some some, you know hotwire subjects, you know at one point

For example, I talked about my belief that God's judgment is upon Western culture and the United States

specifically because of our spitting in God's face our our murder of unborn children our

perversion of marriage perversion of God's ordained Roles of men and women etc, etc.

I was very clear and he looks at me and basically says James.

You realize I I can't even I can't go there.

I'm not allowed to go.

Seriously, can you imagine what would happen if if I if I even Started to say the things

you just said and he was right.

In fact, you were doing that the day after 9 -11.

I mean or even on the day of 9 -11.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, I think it was it's been two days I did that I did that to the dividing line where I you know, God bless

America with with heartfelt repentance.

Yeah, I I've been doing that all along and I get to do that because I am a white

Christian American he is a

Obviously of Pakistani descent and he's a Muslim so he doesn't get to do that.

And so I mean I brought that up and I could tell oh wow, you know.

He he's in a tough spot here as to as to what what he can say it on to it so it wasn't like we

were just sitting there sipping lattes and and Practicing Chris long and stuff like that.

We were talking about tough subjects and Then the next night He has

I'm sitting right In front of the mimbar I'm right up where he has just led the prayers they set up

a table and he starts talking about how he's gotten to know me and he's just been amazed at my

Studies of Islam.

It's like that.

And then the first question he asked me is James.

We Muslim we don't get it.

Please explain the Trinity to us.

So here I am sitting in the mosque and the Imam says please explain explain praise God.

So I explain the Trinity no pushback, these are not debates these are discussions.

So he so the next question is so why did Jesus have to die?

You know, I mean We we have this incredible opportunity

that both nights that the Chris what what these my my critics won't

even touch and won't even acknowledge is.

What happened after these?

These encounters.

You've seen some of these debates and After a debate takes place.

It can be really weird.

Each debate's a little bit different.

But you know you'll get some of the hotheads over here arguing with other hotheads over there and you and I have left

to go to a Diner to eat it.

Who knows what time at night?

Standing in the in the in the parking lot going at it after the day, right?

You know, it just it just happens and so so I've noticed

that in Christian Muslim debates very frequently after the debate you've got the Muslims over one side of the room

and you get the Christians over in the other side of the room and They're all talking about you know, what what happened

at the church the church had had refreshments for us.

They were so gracious and they have been so unfairly attacked.

Pray for them, you know contact them and say thank you for putting yourselves out there.

You know, they I'm just just it just saddened me so much.

The the heat that they think I'm used to taking this type of this type.

Well, not this type I've never seen anything like this before but but still but they had

provided refreshments the mosque did the same thing the next night and so

both nights.

Instead of the Muslims over here in the Christians over there Everyone is talking together.

Praise God and Muslims talking together.

And I stood there watching this going this doesn't happen.

Almost there's there were a couple debates have had where it did happen it was unusual, but it was all also always

because I in the Muslim had had lunch or dinner beforehand and

Had sort of set the tone by the way that we treated one another and then that meant that the audience then felt the freedom

to overcome the barriers and they they're talking and and at the church

I had these three Muslim men come up to me and Greet me as they were leaving and they said

thank you so much for doing this.

This is this is incredible.

And I looked at the one in the center the older one the center and I I sort of lowered my voice and I said Let me ask you.

Did you feel welcome here this evening and his eyes teared up and he said

I Didn't think this was possible.

I did not think this was possible.

Wow and in talking with these people Down there in the Bible belt.

It's just here's the sad thing Chris.

Here's the sad thing they the Muslims down there can tell the

difference between liberals and Bible -believing Christians, they can tell that the

liberals don't really believe the Bible and they don't really have any firm Theology, but those are the people that

will generally be nice to them.

But they also recognize that they're different from them because they don't have any type of firm conviction and

firm faith.

The Bible -believing Christians are scared to death them.

They won't talk to them.

They treat them like they're lepers and And they they really that the Muslim

community as a whole sees Conservative Bible -believing Christians as individuals

who want to have absolutely positively nothing to do with them at all and so

for them to be invited in to a church and Treated that way.

They were absolutely positively blown away amazing.

I'm gonna play a clip of the beginning the opening statements of this event that we are

discussing.

This is the first night of the two -night event in the church

where Yasir Qadhi is given most of the time to speak and Explain his own

beliefs and so on and I'm hoping that our listeners Listen to every word

because sometimes a certain word or phrase Smothers everything else and you'll

have the the radical rabid opponents of you

those who weren't necessarily always that way they will.

They will pounce on certain words and phrases and distort them out of their context and Everything else seems

to disappear from the the audio.

But this is this.

This is just a portion of the The opening remarks that you made to get a real

understanding of the setting of why you and Yasir Qadhi were.

We're meeting to begin with and hear that clip is I have been looking forward to this evening for a

very very long time it has been my desire to engage in a dialogue like this and

When the opportunity came that I'd be coming into this area.

I Contacted dr. Qadhi and I put out the call and the church here was was so

kind to respond and to Join with us and providing a place for us to have our conversation this evening.

I want you to understand.

What our motivations are this evening in coming together?

This is not a debate some of you have seen debates that I have done around the world.

This is not intended to be a debate.

We are going to of necessity discuss differences that we have.

The thing that makes this wonderful and the reason that I sought out dr Qadhi aside from the fact that I have learned

so much from him.

Over the years that he's been a primary influence in my study of Islam.

I am a student of Islam and I have learned much from him but the reason I specifically sought him

out is because I sense in him such a kindred spirit on the other side of The

chasm that divides us in regards to our theology and our beliefs.

He is a consistent Muslim.

He believes what he says.

He wants to seek for consistency amongst his people in his own practice.

And so when you have two believing people one Christian one Muslim.

Come together and say we need to discuss not only what divides us, but also where do we have

similarities?

How can we live in the same community and the most important thing is this.

If we do what we if we do what I hope happens this evening, we're gonna do something absolutely unique.

It hardly ever happens and that is two communities where unfortunately there is a lot of fear

on both sides there is a lot of misunderstanding on both sides and

As a Christian I want to see doors opened as a Christian.

I want you as if you are a Christian here this evening to not have fear of the Muslim people.

But to have love for the Muslim people.

I want the Muslim people to understand that we care and that we want to have dialogue and

That we're not seeking this evening to sweep our differences under the rug and say they don't matter.

Dr. Kadi cannot Present an Islam that is just simply one view amongst many.

I Believe in divine revelation.

He believes in divine revelation.

So how do we get along?

How do our communities talk to one another.

The sad fact the matter is that conversation isn't happening?

And I wanted to start tonight and I wanted to start here.

So if if you're a praying person pray that we will have understanding that as if

you're a Christian.

I want you to hear what this man has to say.

I want you to understand why he believes the things he does what his Life is like here in the United States

as a Muslim.

And I want you to hear especially when he talks about what Islam is and what it is not and who speaks for Islam and All these

types of things.

I want you to hear so that we can have better communication with one another.

That's why we're here this evening.

I hope that's why you've come here this evening.

Please.

No audience reactions or participation.

Let us do the the conversation.

We're gonna have the audience questions later on.

But I very much appreciate you coming here.

Dr. Kadi is a Muslim scholar.

He has written books.

I for example.

Was.

Very very happy to receive from him a 16 CD series called light

and guidance.

And it tremendously helped me to get a basic understanding of you know, so I get the lay of the land.

He has he is an expert in Hadith.

I think I've sort of scared him a little bit by telling him that.

Sometimes in August in Phoenix where I live I have to ride it literally to 33 o 'clock in the

morning if you can even survive.

And I have distinct memories.

At that time in the morning of riding my bike in the desert listening to him lecture on

Hadith sciences.

I think even the Muslims will go.

That is really weird because I don't even I don't even think they do that.

Can you get.

No they don't know they don't do that?

That's really weird.

But he is an expert in in those areas.

We're gonna be talking about a lot of these things.

We're gonna be explaining what we're talking about.

We want to bring everyone along and Hopefully at the end of this evening when we go over there to

have refreshments The Christians and the Muslims together we'll be able to

have conversation.

And many of the misunderstandings that separate us right now will be laid aside.

There won't be any compromise because we both believe very firmly in what we believe in what we profess.

So how in light of that do we get along?

That's why we're here this evening.

Dr. Cotty, sir.

You honor us with your presence.

Thank you very very much for being.

Well, that was the clip that seemed to start a whirlwind of controversy

amongst many people even Some who profess to be theologically aligned with dr. James

R. White and we're going to be discussing some of the points Within

that opening statement or those opening statements that dr. White made when we come back from our break.

If you'd like to join us our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris a RN Z and a gmail .com.

Please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence.

And.

You may feel more comfortable remaining anonymous.

I understand but we will only accept anonymous Questions from those who are asking about a

personal and private matter.

Perhaps you're a Muslim and you don't want to identify your your name.

I understand that but we're not going to take any derogatory marks remarks from

unidentified individuals.

But we would love to hear from you whether you agree or disagree with dr White after these messages in our

email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We're gonna be right back.

God willing with dr. James R. White in his own words.

I Am Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio here to tell you about an exciting offer from world

magazine My trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.

Try world at no charge for 90 days and get a free copy of r .c. Sproul's book

relationship between church and state.

I Rely on world because I trust the reporting.

I gain insight from the analysis and world provides clarity to the news stories That really matter.

I believe you'll also find world to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth That's

simply not found in other media outlets.

Armed with this coverage world can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community.

This trial includes bi -weekly issues of world magazine on -scene reporting from world radio

and the fully shareable content of world digital.

Simply visit WMG org Forward slash iron sharpens

to get your world trial and dr. Sproul's book all free.

No obligation with no credit card required.

Visit world news group at WNG dot org.

Forward slash iron sharpens today.

Have you been blessed by iron sharpens iron radio?

We remain on the air because of our faithful sponsors and because of listeners like you.

There are four ways you can help.

First do you know potential sponsors who may wish to advertise their goods or services on iron sharpens

iron radio?

Second whenever possible purchase the products or use the services that our sponsors advertise and

Then let them know that you heard about them on iron sharpens iron radio.

Thirdly you can also donate to iron sharpens iron radio by going to our website at iron sharpens iron

radio Dot -com and click support at the top of the page, but most importantly keep iron

sharpens iron radio in your prayers.

We hope that iron sharpens iron radio blesses you for many years to come.

Hi, I'm pastor bill shish go inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on wlie radio

www .wlie 540 a .m.

Dot -com We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you.

And we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions our time will be lively.

Useful and I assure you never dull join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time For a visit to the

pastor's study.

Because everyone needs a pastor.

Tired of box store Christianity of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert.

Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship, and how about the preaching perhaps?

You've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.

Well.

There's good news Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship

experience Featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word.

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.

Call them at six three one nine two nine thirty five twelve for service times six three one

nine two nine thirty five twelve or check out their website at Wrbc

.us.

That's.

Wrbc .us.

I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in -depth study used by pastors scholars and everyday readers.

The NASB is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable Bible translation.

The NASB offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages Which the NASB is known for.

The NASB is available in many editions like a topical reference Bible.

Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy the new topical reference Bible includes contemporary topics

relevant to today's issues.

From compacted giant print Bibles find an NASB that fits your needs very affordably at NAS Bible

Calm whichever edition you choose trust discover and enjoy the NASB for yourself today.

Go to NAS Bible calm.

That's NAS Bible calm.

And welcome back.

This is Chris Arnes and if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with 90 minutes to go is Dr. James

R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries an author of many books including what every Christian needs to

know about the Quran.

We are discussing today.

Dr. James R. White in his own words a detailed summary by the man himself as of his actual

Understanding of mission to an affection toward the Muslim people.

If you'd like to join us on the air Our email address is Chris Arnes and at gmail .com chris ar

n z n at gmail .com and always please give us at least your first name city and state and country of

Residence if you live outside the USA and you only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter.

And we do have a lot of people already waiting for their questions to be asked and answered by you.

Dr White but before we go to them, I want to analyze a little bit about The opening statements

that have been a part of the uproar.

It seems that people go deaf after hearing certain words uttered.

Yeah, and they totally dismiss everything else that you're saying.

Oh, yeah, when in between taken in context everything that you're saying makes complete and perfect sense.

Well, but that's thinking in context and and that's the problem before we do that and we need to do that.

But I there was one other thing I wanted to add that.

You see the way we did this moved the focus of the apologetic interaction off

of me and Yasir Qadhi onto the people so in other words the The the conversation

started happening amongst the people in the audience rather than just the people up front and that's what scares a lot of people there's a lot of

people that really I'll just be straight up front do not have much confidence in the power of the gospel and.

So they think that you have to hide people you have to protect people from from any other any other perspective viewpoint.

This is primarily amongst American Christians because Christians I've talked with Christians outside of the United States that have

heard about all this and they're like Controversy what what kind of earth?

What what do you mean?

What you did is exactly how we have to do it every single day.

Sorry countries.

This is the only way we can't we can't stand on street corners.

We can't stand with signs outside of mosque.

You have to you have to get to know Muslims you have to purchase that opportunity of Demonstrating that your

message of love is actually connected to a loving person, etc, etc.

So they're just befuddled beat up by the whole thing.

It just must be this weird American thing which which basically it is the second night Chris I want you to

picture this in your mind the second night.

We're staying outside.

I'm having a lovely chocolate chip cookie.

It is it is really really good and We're we're outside the Memphis Islamic Center.

I've we've had a wonderful evening it's been it's been a great that we've been really warmly

received and These two young ladies walk up to me in full burqa.

Beautiful, you know embroidered patterns and and so on so forth and One of them says

to me.

Thank you very much for coming.

This was this was really incredible.

But could I ask you a question and and I said yes, and she says How do you handle

the impact of pagan religion upon the development of the doctrine of the Trinity the Council of Nicaea?

Now I'm trying not to be unkind here.

But a large portion a large portion of the people who have been calling me a

useful idiot over the past few weeks Would not know how to answer that question.

They don't know anything about church history Trinitarian theology development of theology all things.

I've been teaching for decades and I was able to stand there for ten minutes with this young lady and

talk to her not only about what Constantine's actual role was to Council of Nicaea, but what actually happened the Council of Nicaea

going back earlier to Ignatius and Quoting his words to the Ephesians about

we have one one physician of God of flesh and spirit God and man and talk about the

two natures of Jesus Christ and and went through all and she was listening with rapt

attention and was so thankful for the information

that just doesn't

and So we want to do it again.

We're going to do it again We're not going to allow people who just simply will ignore what's going on and accused

us of compromise.

There was no compromise.

I'm standing outside the mosque defending the Trinity for crying out loud.

And yet and yet there are people there are quote -unquote Christian leaders saying ah useful idiot first law

doesn't know anything about what he's talking about so on so forth and it and They just won't listen.

They they just simply won't listen to what is actually Taking place.

It was it was a tremendous Opportunity and.

I.

I'm just very very thankful for it.

It's just amazing that nearly half a year later all of a sudden it's exploded into the great controversies.

Well the thing and I I'm sorry if you get upset with me, but when this started happening I couldn't help but

laugh actually because I've known you for 22 years and have

organized quite a number of debates with you Mainly Roman Catholic, but also with Muslims

and with liberal Protestants and an atheist and the pro -homosexuals.

And so on and The constant rhetoric that I have battled in defense of you is

dr. White is a nasty mean hateful bigot.

And for the all of a sudden you to become mr. Rogers reincarnated

And captain of the ecumenical cream puff factory.

I I just couldn't help but laugh and I'm like what on earth is happening here

and I Can't help.

I can't help but think a couple of things.

I I think about the.

And I'm not broad -brushing.

So, please if this does not fit you who are listening Don't take this as a personal insult, but I can't

help some of this vitriol in opposition to you is.

A.

Somewhat akin to the Billy the Kid or the Jesse James syndrome where People

want to be the first gunslinger to bring down the the most notable or one of the

most notable apologists the United States and they feel slighted in some way

they want to achieve some kind of Notoriety or fame and they want to publicly attack you and

that is the only way they could possibly Get publicity because they know that there are some

Who smell blood in the water and that will follow their? Their slanders.

I can't help but think that's a part of it.

But it's just amazing how many of these people would also join us in opposing

Vehemently opposing the God hates fags group.

But for some reason that kind of approach is okay with Muslims.

It seems you understand what I'm saying.

Yeah.

Well, there's there's a lot of you know I I know a lot more about what's going on behind the scenes and some people

think that I do and I I know this Is a coordinated effort, but what's going on now?

What's really frightening now is that once some of these articles get out?

There is an article published about me on Saturday in American thinker.

Which is a pretty well -known website.

And it was all they did though was they just simply took the talking points from Brandon houses

article and sort of repeated them and threw in some of their own stuff and When I contacted

the author of the article and I said could I just ask this is by a Twitter?

It's good.

I just asked why didn't you contact me and His response was well, maybe I should have.

And then I wrote back have you and I asked I think three questions.

Did you have you seen any of my debates read any of my books and there was a third?

It was just it was just basically a research question.

Did you do any meaningful research and his response was I didn't have to you're wrong.

So it's like oh Okay, I thought I was talking to a journalist.

Forgive me.

I I didn't realize this was just simply an editorial piece.

Presented as if it was somehow some type of journalism and yet that thing has been picked up.

Tens of thousands of shares over and over and over again.

There is this whole.

You know the left has got their weird people that don't do any homework and they do their fake news.

Guess what?

The right does to the right does as well and there's a lot of politics involved here.

And there's a lot of people who just simply say look, you know, the big thing has been look.

You know, you mentioned at the beginning takia.

Come on.

This this guy's a Muslim.

You can't believe a word.

He has to say So so and even when you point out that Yasir Qadhi has

been slated for death by Isis twice in their online publication

their response that it wasn't because he's the competition and So it doesn't it doesn't really matter

and he can say that he believes the things that he says, but somehow we on this

side and It's people who call themselves Christians, but it's also there's also very strongly

strong political element to this as well.

We'll say we get to define what Islam is and any Muslim that does not

believe and say what we say true Islam is they're just lying and

You know Yasir Qadhi himself said to me said James.

How do you have a conversation with someone who starts?

By stating That anything you say about your own faith is gonna be a lie.

How do you reason with someone like that?

It's it's not possible to do and he's exactly right and so that I have seen a

very ugly side of people who call themselves evangelicals and

yet are absolutely afraid That the gospel would

for them presenting the gospel is handing somebody a tract and then running.

That.

That's why that's why you don't find these people in Muslim majority countries.

Or leaving it leaving a tract on a table at a restaurant with a very bad tip.

You know that that's how it works and and it's frightening to me because.

That you know someone pointed out on Twitter just before the program started and I thought about this

myself.

Have you interviewed Rosario Butterfield?

Yes, I've interviewed her three times.

Okay.

As someone said on Twitter the attitudes that have been expressed by these critics

Would be the very attitudes that would drive any Rosario Butterfield away from ever considering Christianity.

Because it was the willingness Christian friends to get to know

her as an individual and to risk that.

That was the mechanism through which the gospel was able to be communicated to her.

And what I'm seeing is That for the vast majority of conservative Christians in the

United States They have such a fear and I've been talking about this for months, but for years actually.

But now over the past few weeks that this has been brought to incredibly sharp focus.

I guess I needed to be even sharper than it was There if we have fear

in our hearts, we will not extend ourselves.

We will not allow ourselves to be used as vessels of mercy.

You cannot deliver a message of love and compassion and.

And mercy and and everything else if you yourself are not living within that

experience yourself if you if you don't have love towards someone it could be very difficult for you to communicate a message of love

to them and What I learned from Dr. Cotty is as they

look at conservative Christians in the Bible Belt in Memphis.

They see people who are afraid of them who do not like them and do not want to have anything to do with them.

So why should they even consider the message that they might hand them that might be an attract?

They might hand them or something along those lines.

They know the liberals don't have a message for them.

So there's no Evangelism going on.

That's the problem and when we try to do it because we are upsetting a

Very very well funded and very very well manned meme

which is every Muslim a liar every Muslims hiding an ak -47 behind their back and.

So therefore we need to you know Shut down all avenues of communication.

That's not an option for a Christian.

It is not an option.

Could I be lied to by a Muslim?

Yes.

Could I be hurt by a Muslim?

Yes.

Could anyone the early church have been lied to or hurt by a Jewish person in the context of the early

church in Palestine?

Yes.

So what were they supposed to do stop witnessing?

No, trust God do what you do what you do.

You might end up like Steven, you know.

You might end up like Steven but that's what we're called to do and we've lost that where we we love the comfort of our nice comfy

homes and our 401ks and Just leave those people out there.

I don't want to get this is this you get too messy I'm not gonna I'm not gonna go there and it's a frightening thing

to say.

Well, you just said something that I think is at the heart of this with a lot of us who are not as

Studied as you is the black and white version of Christianity

versus Islam is much easier to understand.

It doesn't take a lot of study and reading and labor.

And and you know devoting hours countless hours of time pouring over the

documents of a foreign religion a religion foreign to our own understanding of

how to be made right with God and so on and.

So I think that there is an aspect of laziness That all of us

are guilty of in regard to having anything in opposition.

To say about your approach, but before I even I want to continue on that thread a little bit later.

But I want to go over some of what was said in the opening statements that have caused such

uproar.

And it's ironic to me that those who that would call themselves apologists Would

recognize you would hope that that involves understanding the

theological opponents that you have According to what they have to say about themselves and what they believe.

Using their own documents and their own sources.

You would think there would be nothing wrong if you want to study that the aspect

the deeper aspects of Islam or Hinduism or Buddhism or a whole

spectrum of different religions if someone were to Provide you that information from

that religion.

You would think it would be appropriate for a Christian to say Thank you.

I've learned much from the information that you have given me about your religion.

I am indebted to you for this.

This is invaluable to me in my ministry, etc, etc.

And yet you have these apologists saying he is Compromising the Christian

faith by even thanking a Muslim.

And saying that he's indebted to this man because of what he's learned about Islam not about what you've learned about

salvation.

But what you've learned about Islam if you could comment about what I just said, well that.

Obviously what I've heard over and over is oh, he's your mentor.

He's your he's your jihadi mentor.

That's what people have been saying and what I obviously said was I did learn much from him.

He is a very clear speaker.

He's a very good teacher.

And I spent hours listening to his lectures and it was very very helpful to me and I feel

very very sorry for anybody.

Who thinks that they're currently learning about what other people believe,

you know that before my my Roman Catholic debates I would listen to hours of The lectures or

the debates of the people that I'd be debating with because I wanted to accurately represent them

understand what their position was.

For the very purpose of being able to communicate most clearly in that particular context and so for people to go

I just can't believe a Christian would say they learned something from a Muslim that says much more about you and your

attitude.

Toward another human being and the fact that you're never going to be able to have a meaningful interaction with

somebody.

Then it says about me being willing to say, you know what?

I still have more to learn.

In fact, I've had people say see you you just say you're a student of Islam all my guys are experts on Islam.

Well, okay.

So I'm I'm willing to admit that Islam is a huge subject and I don't think anyone who

started I started What 11 about 11 years ago now, so I started about 43

years of age studying Islam.

I don't think there's enough time in life left to ever really become an expert.

So obviously you and I define expert in different ways.

So I'm just going to be honest and say hey I am I am a student.

Take what I have said compare the consistency of it look at the debates read the books see for

yourself.

But this it's sad to me that there are people who are Christians who would go I just can't believe you would learn anything from

people in a false religion.

That's just horrific well that tells you a little something about the background you have.

I I can name names of Mormons from whom I learned much about

Mormonism.

If you don't learn from them who you could be learning from or just read Christians, but we'll have the Christians find out.

It does leave me just completely befuddled as to what people are thinking.

But there is a deep deep deep prejudice amongst many people.

I see it every single morning for the past two weeks and I've gotten up I've been faced with massive

prejudice as soon as I've turned on the on the computer and it's it's a sad thing to observe.

Well, we have to go to another break right now.

This is an elongated break that is required by Grace life radio in Lake City, Florida

who has been airing my program in a Pre -recorded version since the

g3 conference that took place last January and I need to have a 12 minute gap

between The two segments so we're going to be taking an elongated break right now.

But we hope that you join us with questions of your own.

There are already quite a number of you who are waiting patiently to have your questions asked at least I think you're waiting patiently.

I have no idea whether you're patient or not.

But you're waiting to have your questions asked and answered and we'll get to as many of you as possible.

But if we have time if anybody else would like to join them, our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back to back after these messages with dr James R. White in his own words.

One sure way all iron sharpens iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my

advertisers.

I know you all use batteries every day.

So I'm urging you all from now on to exclusively use Battery Depot calm for all

your battery needs at Battery Depot calm.

They're changing the status quo.

They're flipping the script.

They're sticking it to the man.

In other words, they'd like to change the battery industry for good by providing an extensive inventory

of top -of -the -line batteries.

There are uniformly new dependable and affordable.

Ordering from Battery Depot calm ensures you'll always get fresh out -of -the -box batteries.

You can count on to work properly at competitive prices.

Whether you need batteries for cordless phones cell phones radios Pcs

laptops tablets baby monitors hearing aids smoke detectors credit card

readers digital cameras electronic cigarettes GPS's mp3 players

watches or nearly anything else you own that needs batteries go to Battery Depot

Calm next day shipping available all products protected by 30 -day guarantees and six

-month warranties.

Call.

866 403 3768

that's 866 403 3768 or go to Battery

Depot calm.

That's Battery Depot calm.

Charles Hedens Persian once said give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid ground Christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of preachers to heart.

The mission of solid ground Christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future and To publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish God -centered Christ exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid ground books .com That's

solid ground books .com and see what priceless Literary gems from the past or

present you can unearth from solid ground.

Solid ground Christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens iron radio.

Every day at thousands of community centers high schools middle schools juvenile Institutions

coffee shops and local hangouts Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young

people who need Jesus.

We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong

journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement To youths in

need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future Volunteer.

Donate pray or all of the above.

For details call Long Island Youth for Christ at 6 3 1 3 8 5 8 3 3

3 that's 6 3 1 3 8 5 8 3 3 3 or

visit liy fc .org That's liy

fc .org.

Linbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Linbrook Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in

the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service.

It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.

It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship play and

together.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman.

I invite you to come and join us here at Linbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be call in Brook Baptist at.

5 1 6 5 9 9 9 4 0 2 that's 5 1 6 5 9 9 9 4 0 2.

Or visit Linbrookbaptist .org that's Linbrookbaptist .org.

Chef exclusive catering is in South Central, Pennsylvania.

Chef exclusives goals to provide a dining experience that is sure to please any palate.

Chef Damian white of chef exclusive is a graduate of the renowned Johnson and Wales University with a degree in

culinary arts and applied science.

Chef exclusive caterings event center is newly designed with elegance and style and is available for

small office gatherings bridal showers engagement parties and rehearsal dinners.

Critics and guests alike acknowledge chef exclusives commitment to exceeding even the highest

expectations I know of their quality firsthand since.

Chef exclusive catered by most recent iron sharpens iron radio pastors luncheon.

For details call 7 1 7 3 8 8 3 thousand.

That's 7 1 7 3 8 8 3 thousand or visit chef exclusive .com.

That's chef exclusive .com.

Thriving financial is not your typical financial services provider as a membership organization.

We help Christians be wise with money and live generously every day.

And for the fourth year in a row We were named one of the world's most ethical companies by the ethosphere

Institute a leading international think -tank dedicated to the creation advancement and sharing of best

practices in business ethics.

Contact me Mike Gallagher financial consultant

at 7 1 7 2 5 4 6 4 3 3 Again, 7 1 7 2 5 4 6 4 3 3 to learn more about

the thriving difference.

Lending faith finances and generosity.

That's the private story.

I.

Earn sharpens iron welcomes solid rock remodeling to our family of sponsors serving South

Central, Pennsylvania.

Solid rock remodeling is focused on discovering Understanding and exceeding your

expectations.

They deliver personalized project solutions with exceptional results.

Solid rock remodeling offers a full range of home renovations including kitchen and bath

remodeling decks porches.

Windows and doors.

Roof and siding and more.

For a clear detailed professional estimate Call this trustworthy team of problem solvers

who provide superior results that stand to the test of time.

Call solid rock remodeling at 7 1 7 6 9 7 1981

7 1 7 6 9 7 1981 or visit solid rock

remodeling comm That's solid rock remodeling.

Calm.

Solid rock remodeling.

Bringing a new life to your home.

Hi, I'm pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 p .m Eastern Time on Wlie radio

www .wlie 540 a .m.

Calm we bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you.

And we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions.

Our time will be lively useful and I assure you never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs

a pass.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arns.

And if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with a little less than an hour to go is.

Dr.

James R white of Alpha -and -omega ministries author of a number of books including what every

Christian needs to know about the Quran and today we are discussing Dr. James R white in his own

words a detailed summary by the man himself of his actual understanding of mission to an

Affection toward the Muslim people.

If you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Before I return to our discussion I have a few more announcements from sponsors of iron sharpens iron that I

need to make.

Coming up in August from the 3rd to through the 5th Fellowship conference New England is being held

at the Deering Center Community Church in Portland, Maine and the speakers include

Pastor Don Curran who is the Eastern European coordinator with heart cry missionary society

Which is an organization founded by Paul Washer.

Pastor Mac Tomlinson a dear friend of mine who is the pastor of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas.

And please pray that my brother John who lives 10 minutes from Pastor Mac eventually

acquiesces and agrees to meet with Pastor Mac Tomlinson.

My brother John is not a believer and Is battling a very serious illness, so I would hope

that he agrees to meet with him very soon.

Another speaker is Pastor Jesse Barrington and who I've interviewed.

He's the pastor of Grace Life Church in Dallas, Texas Sister Church of Grace Life Church in

Lake City, Florida whose radio program airs iron sharpens iron every day and Pastor Nate

Pickowitz who is my guest tomorrow on iron sharpens iron From 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern

to discuss his book reviving New England pastor Nate Pickowitz is pastor of Harvest Bible Church and Gilmont and

ironworks, New Hampshire.

If you'd like more information on registering for the Fellowship Conference New England August 3rd through the 5th go through

go to I should say Fellowship Conference New England comm Fellowship Conference New England comm and then

November 17th through the 18th in Quakertown, Pennsylvania.

The Quakertown conference on reform theology will be held featuring Kent Hughes Peter Jones

Tom Nettles Dennis Cahill and I believe a close friend of dr. White Scott Oliphant.

This will be held November 17th of the 18th at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown, Pennsylvania.

The theme is a line from Martin Luther's classic hymn a mighty fortress for still our

ancient foe.

That is the theme of the Quakertown conference on reform theology.

Go to Alliance net org Alliance net org click on events and click on

Quakertown conference to register.

And then last but not least The g3 conference returns to Atlanta, Georgia

January 18th through the 20th 2018 and actually on 2000 on

January 17th, there's going to be a Spanish version of the conference.

If you would like to register for this conference go to g3 conference comm G3

conference comm and tonight at midnight.

The prices go up so register before midnight tonight to get the discount.

And you can find out more about that at g3 conference comm.

The speakers include Paul Washer Stephen Lawson Votie Balcom HB Charles jr. Tim Challis Josh

Bice our guest today.

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries Tom Askel Anthony Mathenia Michael Kruger David Miller Paul

trip Todd Friel Derek Thomas and Martha peace and.

If you register, please let them know that you heard about the g3 conference on iron sharpens iron

radio.

I'm so delighted that pastor Josh Bice has Done an advertising trade with me and is putting me up

in a hotel and giving me an exhibitors booth there once again.

And I am so excited about returning to Atlanta, Georgia for this wonderful conference.

And now I have to do something that I never feel comfortable doing.

I have to ask you for money.

My advertiser is my current advertisers on iron sharpens iron radio.

Regularly urged me to make public appeals for new donors and new advertisers.

To ensure to further ensure that we will remain on the air.

If you are blessed above and beyond your ability to support your church as always.

And if you are blessed financially above in your bill above and beyond your ability to support your family.

Please consider donating to iron sharpens iron radio.

Go to iron sharpens iron radio comm.

Click on support.

And you will see an address where you can mail a check for any amount made out to iron sharpens iron radio.

Please never ever ever.

Siphon money out of the local giving to your church to your local church where you are a member.

Never do that.

Never take food off of your family's dinner table to support iron sharpens iron.

Just if you are blessed above and beyond your ability to do both of those things.

Which are commanded by God to do supporting iron sharpens iron radio is not commanded by God.

Those other two things are.

And if you can Include iron sharpens iron radio in your monthly giving we would love to hear from you at iron sharpens iron radio.

Calm if you would like to advertise with us, send me an email to iron sharpens iron radio.

That's not an email address.

That's the website.

Send me an email to Chris Harnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

And now we are back to our discussion with dr James R. White and about the current controversy

regarding his approach to Ministering to evangelizing to

debating with and having dialogue with Muslims.

Hey, Chris.

Yes.

You know, I'm scared.

I have no idea why you're scared.

Can actually do multiple things on a computer at the same time and I Was watching Twitter

and guess who's listening right now?

I have no idea.

Bethany house publishers.

Wow.

They they specifically mentioned you and thank you for having me on but I mean like they're my publisher, you know.

So I'm scared now.

The only time I ever saw you scared was when I walked up to a podium to announce you.

That's a life -changing experience right there, especially especially the first after the first debate.

I was actually listen to that recently because I the debate in London

Last month with Peter D. Williams on the Marian dogmas.

You know the first big debate we did was the same thing basically with with Jerry Matta

ticks and.

So I got to listen to your introduction again, and it just it just brought back, you know.

Now pleasant memories at the time, you know, almost coma inducing.

I can still remember seeing the video of that and Seeing you like you'd be busily writing things

and all sudden you'd raise your head like what on earth is he.

Yeah, you know I got used to it in the years that followed that but as you yourself pointed out look

that that's you know.

Back, then I was pretty much a straight -laced guy without a sense of humor.

So we Sort of fixed that since then a little bit.

Well, one of the things that I wanted to address that you mentioned in your opening remarks that has caused such an

uproar.

Is that you said that you found?

That you had a kindred spirit with your Islamic opponent there

and then in that dialogue or Islamic Friend if you will having a dialogue.

This seems to have caused quite an uproar and I think it's because people have no earthly idea What the phrase

kindred spirit even means or how it's commonly used.

It doesn't mean that you agree with everything the person believes or does.

It means that it could have varying Applications depending upon the emphasis of

what you were talking about.

But you made it clear that he added a kindred spirit with you on the other side of the chasm

Of difference that you had with him.

Well now again, you're doing that context thing allowing an entire sentence to stand as a sentence.

I mean who does that anymore?

This is the day of fake news.

We don't we don't need to worry about things like that.

But obviously that's exactly what I was saying.

I said that I sensed in him a kindred spirit across the great chasm that divides us in theology and practice and so on so

forth and I explain what that meant.

He is a Consistent Muslim and I explained this to him.

We had lunch that day before we we did the dialogue and I and I said to him I said, you know, one of

the things that's always attracted to me to you is the fact that I would listen to your some of his

call cookbuzz his his sermons to his own people and I Listened.

I remember exactly where I wasn't about on on the bike.

We're listening to this where he was starting to get rather well like a preacher.

To his own people and here's the guy who's memorized the Quran in Arabic himself.

But he he was basically saying to his people is saying why do we teach our children to memorize

a book in a language?

They do not even understand if we do not teach them to actually believe and practice

the precepts that are in the book in the first place and I'm sitting here going.

This is a guy that's like me amongst the Muslims.

He is he's trying to be consistent.

He's trying to to say look we need we need to.

We can't be we can't fake this if we're gonna believe this then we need to actually live it.

And that's what I was talking about.

I I know of at least one reformed Baptist pastor who has criticized me strongly for having

called him a Muslim believer because for a Christian only Christians are believers.

I'm like, well, what language am I supposed?

What am I supposed to say?

He's a Muslim.

I don't even know how to say that he believes Islam without using the term believer.

I wasn't obviously saying that he and I believe the same things or anything like that.

We were so open and so so straightforward and the differences

that we have that.

How anyone could think this was and we specifically in the dialogue said this is not.

One of those interfaith dialogues where you sit around you try to find common ground thing kumbaya.

We specifically said that you said you weren't sweeping things under the rug.

Exactly.

We weren't I mean if he's gonna start off in the mosque by saying Look, we Muslims

don't get the Trinity.

Why'd you explain it to us?

He wasn't saying hey, you know what?

We've got our monotheism.

You've got your trinitarianism.

Let's come up with something in the middle that never happened.

It's never going to happen.

That's the kind of Thing that we both he and I both would go.

Ooh, I just don't want anything to do with that.

And so for people to be presenting it that way such as the American thinker article Presented as part of

the the great grand Muslim conspiracy to make it all seem like we all believe the same thing.

We were doing the exact opposite of that.

So it's just amazing to me Fascist people have never listened to both both dialogues and I'd encourage

people look if you think I did something wrong Then please before you criticize me at least listen

to everything and try to listen to it with some modicum of fairness.

Maybe just a little teeny tiny bit to actually Listen to what we were saying.

But that's where the problem is so many people in our day have a horrible time trying to listen to a Muslim speak

Without automatically associating them with and with with you know people jumping out of vehicles and stabbing

people in London.

I was in London when that happened by the way, right?

I remember.

Yeah, I was on my way back a few weeks ago and We the problem is

that the way it's reported is we call it.

Anytime someone does something terrible they are a Muslim and it's that's the first thing is put out there and

If we've turned that around and every time a Christian someone who was raised as a Christian or you know As

far as you go to if you're Scottish or Irish Anybody who does anything horrible if we all start off with

Christian something does something we'd have the exact same situation reverse and

that's where the problem is coming is is that people see they hear that and these people are yelling a lot of Akbar

and Obviously there is something to be discussed about where that violence is coming from what the motivations are and

everything else.

But because of that people get the idea that well Anybody who who will say I to a Muslim

is automatically the same type of person and it's so much easier as you were saying.

It takes so much less Attention and brainpower basically to just throw them all into one pile and say yeah.

They're all the same and we'll treat them all the same way.

And keep in mind folks that just because the word spirit is in the phrase kindred spirit does not mean that

is referring to the Holy Spirit.

When you are having a Christian use the phrase.

It's just like if you were in a room with people who disagreed and you said let us in a spirit of Respect and

cordiality have a discussion amongst those who disagree.

It's not talking about the Holy Spirit.

It's talking about the manner and the heartfelt.

Seriously I that see I cannot keep up with it all.

There is so much stuff.

Every single day I just saw a clip of a video that was that was done.

It was just Amazing, but it had been out there for like two or three days.

I can't keep up with all because I actually have other stuff.

I'm doing a written debate right now.

I can't tell you all the details, but you're all gonna find it really fascinating.

It's it's it's actually a new thing that this is it's a startup group and and they contract people to

do written debates.

And we actually have to record All of our stuff, so you'll be able to actually listen to it and read it and all the rest of stuff.

I've got stuff.

I've got to be doing I can't keep up with us.

So if someone actually said that saying kindred spirit that somehow is saying this that that means that the Muslims That's

the Holy Spirit by the way.

They don't believe in the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit.

This one is is the angel Gabriel right.

And I think Hamsa Abdul Malik tried to imply that was Muhammad.

What didn't he and during your time.

Yeah, well yeah in in John 14 and John 16 they they do believe.

Most Muslims do believe if if they want to identify a New Testament text that I did it

allegedly prophesied the coming of Muhammad.

It's generally John 14 and 16 and the irony is I can pretty much point

to almost.

Well to all of my all of my critics and say where were you a week after the attack

on the Benghazi?

Consulate.

While there were riots taking place all around the world I Was standing in the East London mosque the

largest mosque in Europe in front of a majority Muslim audience Debating whether Jesus or whether

Muhammad is prophesied in the Bible with a Muslim by the name of Zaka Hussein.

Where were you.

And another thing?

I'd like to ask those who are pouncing on dr. White perhaps those of you who are more moderate in

your speech, but are still very Stern in your rebuke toward him.

Where are you in renouncing the clear in?

Obvious slander that is going on the denial of God's

command Not to bear false witness against your neighbor.

Where are you in regard to those folks?

It's in fact by the way when I was telling a person I don't even know who the person was but I was interacting with

somebody on Facebook about That we cannot slander anyone we cannot

bear false witness even if you are a witness In a trial

of with a murderer involved and if you are a witness to the fact that this murderer

Killed two people and you get up on the witness stand and you say I saw him kill three people.

Even that is bearing false witness.

You're not allowed because you're a Christian to bear false witness against anybody, but It see

it seems that this is an aspect that has gone completely to the wayside and

nobody is even rebuking those who are in the forefront of using the slanderous and

clearly obviously slanderous and exaggerated tactics that they're using.

But for all these folks again The worst stuff is is coming from people who have a very

vested interest in making sure That it remains Muslims versus Christians Muslims versus

Christians that we can't break down any of these walls we can't.

They have a very vested interest in that one of the main critics over the past couple weeks sells

a $99 Preparedness kit for dealing with Islamic terrorism and stuff like that.

So, you know, I I recognize that's where part of its coming from and those folks.

They don't bother me as much as my own fellow reformed believers.

Who will listen?

Well, they won't even listen.

Well when they listen to what I'm saying, they just they just put my words in the worst possible context and they can ignore things.

That's that's the part that has left me just Shaking my head and going my goodness.

What what what's what's going on here?

But you know I'm I'm headed.

I'm very very busy the rest of the year.

We're gonna be in.

I'm I'm not sure if you've heard about this, especially with party hardy Marty Luther.

I'm going to be.

I am actually going to be preaching in the castle church in Wittenberg in September at formal

service.

Yeah, I did hear that.

I did hear that thought device.

You know your German accent is as bad as my Scottish.

Not according to Mariana block who's from Germany.

Africa we're going to try to do some things in London again.

So many opportunities of demonstrating that there's been no compromise.

I anybody can go online right now and watch two debates that I've done since the after Cotty

dialogues one in one in London one in South Africa with Muslims and they will

hear a clear Presentation of the gospel.

So hey, you said you got all these questions.

We're never get to him.

If you don't start reading them.

Yes, and I will start reading them.

I just said a couple of my own to quickly Give and then I will let all the listeners have

the the final moments of the show.

And by the way, I want to let our listeners know that I have arranged a lot of debates with dr. White.

Dr. White is the only person I have ever Seen in a debate and this was

specifically in regard to one of our debates with a Muslim in Queens, New York not not Shams Ali,

but the other one and then the Imam escapes my memory right now, but but the only

time I've ever seen One of your debating opponents say I'm sorry.

Can I stop now?

I'd really rather have somebody in the audience who's Muslim take my place.

I've never seen.

The only thing that came close is that David Silverman was trying to call to an end of the debate on atheism

in Amityville if you recall he wanted to bring it to an early conclusion, but Anyway, the

one of the a couple of the debates that I a couple of debates a couple of the questions I had for my

my own mind is that I have always Since becoming a born -again believer and

especially since learning from you.

The way that you determine whether somebody is being faithful and consistently

Logical or logically consistent with the religion that they claim to adhere to is to look at the

actual documents produced by that religion that

list Beliefs that are required of you in order to be a member in that religion

and I'll give you an example I constantly in fact, I just like a week ago heard from a Roman

Catholic who said to me By the way, Chris, he must have heard about what I did as far as

the debates or something.

And he said by the way, Chris, I'm a Roman Catholic and I do not believe my works in any way

Enabled me to get to heaven and I said to him.

Well, you're in opposition to your own church Which has an anathema against you for even

saying that because the Council of Trent clearly Reveals that works our

works are a crucial aspect of meriting eternal life, of course

that only grace they would say enables those works to even exist, but

So in other words I point Roman Catholics to the Council of Trent as far as dogma even the even the

Catholic catechism Since Vatican II is Compromised with things that are not dogmatic

and much more liberal than Trent would ever allow.

But but there seems to be something different going on here according to you with Islam.

I have to confess that I was among those That believed true

Islam can only be Islam that involves violence against non Muslims or

Muslims believed to be heretical I have Believed that and I've only started

to Question that after hearing you go into further depth on this issue if you could just comment

on that.

Well, look the reality is that My my thesis and

it's what I've been saying for a long long time is I've I've read the Quran a number of times.

I've read a number of scholarly works on on the Quran its background.

It's history.

It's construction.

It's it's writing, etc Etc.

And I've also read a major portion of the hadith which forms the

context in which the because the Quran is interpreted.

And My biggest concern I've expressed this many many times over the years is that

as I see the different forms of Islam in conflict one another and The vast majority of people

killed by Islamic violence in the world are fellow Muslims that that is a fact that I don't think anyone actually

disputes.

My.

Concern is that I do not see a consistency in those original sources that

will allow one side to Fundamentally vanquish the other and as long as there are people who

find within those sources a means of expressing their sinful desires We're going to

have a major serious problem.

And the only solution to that from the Christian perspective is The gospel of Jesus Christ, so

there there you go and that and by the way, I don't say that in in a flippant manner that's what makes me so

different than the American thinker article author and people like that because The gospel

isn't the answer for them.

That's you know, they might be a nice thing to be.

Oh, that's that that's nice.

But for them the primary thing is politics politics politics and for me The primary thing is gospel

gospel gospel you change hearts you change minds with you the politics can't do that the gospel can.

That's what we have to be focused upon.

So That's that's really what that comes from there.

You can make a very strong argument from the example of Muhammad in fact, it's fascinating

some of the best programs I've done the dividing line for years were programs where I went through Yasir Qadhi's

stuff.

This is years ago.

This is before we we just started having any Communication with one another at all, but I

went through lectures by Yasir Qadhi where he was identifying as shirk some of the excessive

veneration of Muhammad that is part and parcel of certain elements of

certain Islamic groups and I point out, you know why this happens this happens because

Theologically you have a holy God you have the reality of hell.

There's more pictures of what hell looks like in Islamic literature than and Dante ever dreamed of.

But you you've had the mediator taken away.

You don't have a mediator anymore.

So you've got a holy God.

You've got his laws broken and you've got the reality of hell, but you don't have a mediator anymore and so of

necessity there has been this exaltation over time of Muhammad

and Once you set him up as the great example and Yasir Qadhi does this he does set up

Muhammad as the example.

But he recognizes.

Well, there have to be limitations or you get into shirk and so forth.

Well, the problem is the sources don't provide you with a consistent way of doing that and when you set him up this way.

Hey, it's easy to point out his military campaigns and the violence that he used to be against

Various of the of the Jewish tribes and and all the rest of this kind of stuff.

It's very easy to do that.

And so the real question about what you asked is true Islam.

That that's that's what I say and in fact Robert Spencer and I I wasn't planning on it had less than 24 hours notice of it but

Robert Spencer and I Discussed this issue and he admitted right up front.

There is no true Islam, but the majority of the Jury the

schools of jurisprudence say this this and this and it can be interpreted in this way well, they can be interpreted in other ways too, but

Yeah, look, there's all sorts of Muslims who would say that the the

world of war must be submitted to the world that is in submission to a law and

Therefore they will say you can use military force to do that and I have said for a long long time.

Well, the fundamental differences between us is We believe that someday every knee will bow and every tongue will

confess but the difference between us is the mechanism by which this takes place and

It's not by military conquest in the Christian faith it's not by that type of thing right now the Kingdom of God

is is established by the work of the Holy Spirit drawing people into Confession of the Lordship of Jesus Christ

and when God wraps it all up every knee will bow.

But at that time for some it will be in Condemnation and it's submission to the judgment of God that is

upon them that will separate them from God for eternity.

That's different than the idea that you have in Islam in the mechanism that will be used to bring

about The final destruction of anyone who would stand against Islam both with both religions

believe that someday Their ultimate statement will be established worldwide whether

it's the Shahada for Islam.

Or the statement that Jesus is Lord for Christians.

It's the mechanism that is completely different and we must understand that amongst Muslims

there are differences as to what the mechanisms are to be how they are to be established when they can be

established if we Just simply say I don't care about all that.

I'm not going to make proper distinctions.

Then we're back in the same situation that other people look how many I can't tell you how many times I've had Muslims try

to hold me accountable for what Pope Francis said and I know many Roman Catholics that don't want to be

held accountable for what Pope Francis said have to be able to say hey.

Guys look you can't hold me accountable for Pope Francis.

Here's why historically biblically so on so forth and if they say hey, don't hold me accountable for what Baghdadi said.

Don't hold me accountable for what?

Al Qaeda says or anything else.

Here's what I believe.

Here's my understanding.

I have to go with that if I want to reach the person if I want to reach the person and that's where the difference Is

most of my critics aren't concerned about reaching the person they are concerned about making sure that person remains demonized in the eyes of

everybody else.

We're going to one final break and it will just be one commercial.

But before we go to the break, let's make it clear.

You do not believe that any Muslim in fact No one of any religion not even a

Baptist is going to faith without genuine repentance and

Faith in Jesus Christ and without the covering of his blood from Calvary's Cross.

You do not believe that there is any Avenue which a Muslim Is going to enter heaven without

repenting of any falsehood in his religion and Clinging to his only

hope for salvation the cross of Christ.

Am I right?

That's exactly what I said in the mosque sitting next to Yasir Qadhi and Despite Bernie Sanders

detestation of that and wanting to kick us all out of the country for that.

That is the Christian message and my point is that if I'm going to make that that that statement

to a Muslim I need to lay the foundation for them to be able to understand why that is because they have

so many misconceptions of the Foundational issues around it.

That's the issue.

Alright, we're going to our final break and we'll be right back. God willing right after these messages.

So do not go away.

Iron sharpens iron radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars a year -round Bible conference and retreat

center.

Nestled on the Jersey Shore Harvey Cedars offers a wide range of accommodations to suit groups up

to 400 for generations.

Christians have enjoyed gathering and growing at Harvey Cedars.

Each year thousands of high school and college students come and learn more about God's Word.

An additional 9 ,000 come annually to Harvey Cedars as families couples

singles men women pastors seniors and missionaries 90 miles

from New York City 70 miles from Philly and 95 miles from Wilmington and easily

accessible.

Scores of notable Christian groups frequently planned conferences at Harvey Cedars like the

Navigators InterVarsity Christian Fellowship Campus Crusade and the Alliance of

Confessing Evangelicals.

Find Harvey Cedars on Facebook or at hcbible .org

Hcbible .org.

Call 609 494 5689 609

494 5689.

Harvey Cedars where Christ finds people and changes lives.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnsin and now we will continue our discussion with dr James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries

and take some of our listener questions as many as we can.

We have Scott in Bryan, Ohio.

Who says I am unsure of how to phrase this but we know it is true that not all

Muslims advocate radical jihad violence or terrorism such as Isis.

But do all Muslims want Sharia law that would coerce all to

submit to its demands.

Well again, there's all sorts different forms of Sharia law to that's the other part.

The the volumes that have been written on this the multi -volume sets that have been written just on the definition of

Sharia.

It's sort of like there's one definition of God's law for Christians, right?

Okay, not really.

That means there's not one Sharia, but yes, the majority of the schools

of jurisprudence within Islam.

Establish when you have an Islamic state.

That law is to be Over everybody except for the people of the book who are given a

special status of dhimmis.

Where they can maintain their own own beliefs and they do not have to go to war.

Therefore they have to pay a special tax to support the people that that do go to war for them.

But no, it's it's a it's a very theocratic system.

So it's very similar to what you would have under ancient Israel except expanded across the world.

So no, if someone wants to try to establish an Islamic

state.

Then that's not a situation.

Look at the Middle East.

That's not a situation.

It's going to lead to any type of Expansion of religious

rights for other groups.

That's the that's the conflict that I point out to so many of my Muslim friends.

They enjoy the freedom of the West.

But they have they ever thought about the fact that if their religion, of course, they do think about this.

And I just try to press them to think about some more if their religion in its most popular forms were to

become predominant they wouldn't have the religious freedoms that they themselves cherish so much and

if you look at history when when certain Islamic cultures did reach high levels of

Art and science and and and things like that.

Generally what brought about their downfall was the attack of this other form of Islam that

cannot allow for that kind of diverse expression and freedom of expression and things like that.

You look at those early years and don't have time to get it right now because I'm taking too long here.

But look at the early years and you'll see that there was not the kind of monolithic

Perspective that is now being expressed and it's the it's the the kind of

Salafi Wahhabi Islam that destroyed the highest expressions of Islam in this in history itself.

Well Scott you have won a free copy of what every Christian needs to know about the Quran Compliments of Bethany house

publishers and Baker books and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible book services

CV bbs .com.

We'll be shipping that out to you.

We need your full mailing address.

Thank you for the question and we have a question from

Jenny in Ben Salem, Pennsylvania.

Why is it important that we learn about what other people believe in order to give them the gospel message?

In fact There has been a saying that you don't learn counterfeit

money.

By studying counterfeit money you learn counterfeit money by studying the real money and therefore you don't really need

to know about what the enemy Believes.

You just need to know the Bible.

Why do you respond to that?

Well, first of all, I've used that illustration many many times because I have often said I would rather take five people with me to Salt Lake

City who know the gospel real well than 50 people that can rip and shred Joseph Smith But have nothing to give him in his in his place.

So I do believe that it's far more important on a scale of things To know the Christian faith real well and to be

able to express it with clarity than know anything else.

But if you're gonna start a church in Salt Lake City or even better Kanab, Utah

Then you need to know Mormonism because that's the language they speak.

That's like the culture in which you're going to be living and ministering and if you want to reach out to the Muslim people Then you need to understand what they

believe what they're experiencing so that you can be able to communicate with them.

So it's a matter of communication with all these people.

There's there are language barriers.

They they interpret certain words that we use in a different way than we do.

And so since we're the ones trying to do the reaching out since we're the ones Wanted to extend that hand then we're the ones

that have to Make the effort to understand what they believe and be able to communicate with them in the most

effective fashion.

So it isn't a matter of of in either or situation.

It is a matter of first and foremost We must know the truth.

The vast majority of my time is spent on Christian theology not Islamic theology.

But if you are going to if you have a heart to speak to the Muslim people, let me tell you something I can

tell you from my own experience.

When I get into a cab and I've got a Muslim cabbie and I start narrating Hadith to the cabbie

That opens up a door that nothing that no for spiritual laws is ever gonna be.

That's right.

Thank You Jenny.

Sorry, we don't have time to ask your other questions.

We just have too many people.

And you have also won a free copy of what every Christian needs to know about the Quran.

Compliments of Bethany house publishers and Baker books and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service Who is

shipping it out to you free of charge.

Make sure we have your mailing address.

And by the way, I want to make it clear that Benny Jenny is on your side here.

I didn't want to give the false impression because of her question that she was opposed to what you were doing.

We have Tom in West Islip, Long Island, New York.

Always enjoy listening to your esteemed guest.

Dr. White I've heard that the Islamic faith states that a land conquered by Muslims will always be

considered such even if Reconquered by the opposing army.

This was stated by al -qaeda after one of the multitude of bombings in Spain.

I would like to understand if such is backed up by the Quran and if so Would that

mean that these lands will always be in a perpetual state of war until given over to Islamic rule

once again?

Thanks for the opportunity to present the question Chris.

Love your show that's Tom and West Islip, New York.

Well, yeah, Tom's correct.

I mean there it's.

I don't think it's a Quranic concept.

I think it's it developed at a later point in time.

But there is no question that if a land is considered to be Islamic then it's

considered to always be Islamic and.

But but the idea is again the whole concept of Islam is that if Sharia is God's law

Then it has to be spread across the world because that's the only way to please God.

And so the the the Islamic eschatology is all focused upon the eventual

Submission of all men to Allah.

That's the only way that men can ever have true.

Peace is submission to God.

That's the whole idea.

And so does that happen subjugation like Isis or does that

happen through?

Rational argumentation.

That's what's not.

Consistent.

There are Muslims who believe one and there are Muslims who believe the other and there look let's also remember we haven't you mentioned This

there's also a bunch of people that are Muslim because that's what you are when you live in the land.

They're in and they don't really have a vested interest in any of it.

They just want to live their lives and they're not really overly committed to anything.

It's just all they've ever known and when it's all you ever known if we want to reach them.

That's what that's what missionaries are called.

If you want to reach them that we still need to understand how to communicate with these folks.

Even that even if they may not have a tremendous amount of fervor for any of these kinds of things.

Well, thanks Tom.

You've also won a free copy of what every Christian needs to know about the Quran.

Please give us your full mailing address.

So Cumberland Valley Bible book service CV bbs .com.

She can ship that out to you at no charge to you or to us at iron sharpens iron and we thank Bethany house

Publishers once again and Baker books for providing us with the copies of this book.

We have Joe in Slovenia who says thanks for having dr. White on today.

I've purposely not exposed myself to Wait a minute it is he

trying to remain anonymous here.

He didn't say that in the beginning of his question here.

I better pass on just enter question there.

Sorry, Joe.

I'll have to look at that a little later.

We have Bruce in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

Let's see here.

Bruce and I have to enlarge the font on Bruce's email because it's microscopic and I am going blind.

Bruce says I know a missionary that travels frequently under the Pseudonym of a

businessman in Muslim countries.

He goes to mosques and uses only the Quran in the beginning discussion to witness to Muslims about the

three Corbin of Allah and the final one of Issa Almusi

and I don't know if I've pronounced that correctly.

Can one use of the Quran to witness about Christ on the cross?

For example.

The first Corbin was in the Garden of Eden with the sacrifice of an animal and the skin coverings for sin.

The second being the near sacrifice of Abraham of Isaac with the ram being provided.

The third mentions Issa Jesus Almusi being sacrificed in the cross and having a

straight path to paradise.

This does seem to be a contradiction in some ways since Muslims teach that Jesus Fainted on the

cross and did not die but revived and went on to live and that's Bruce in Pittsburgh.

Well, Bruce.

Actually, only the Achaemenid Muslims believe in that the vast majority Muslims not believe Jesus was crucified at all.

It's Lisa been Mariam Lisa Messiah is probably trying to say that it's The rather unusual

name for Jesus that is found in in the Quran.

So, um, I know I I do not suggest utilization of the Quran

for witnessing to Muslims for a number of reasons.

But primarily because the Jesus of the Quran is not the Jesus of the Bible.

Sure, you can you know, there's there's the one section I believe in surah five About Jesus and you can

look at him being the the the word of Allah and maybe make some connections there.

But you know I I just think the Word of God is powerful and it has its effect in

people's hearts and the heart of the elect and so I I think it's getting to the Word of God and

You know having a knowledge of the Quran.

I think it's very important.

You know, I make Quranic arguments.

I think one of my strongest Quranic arguments is based out of surah five and the chain of authority that

it's that's established there from Moses to Jesus to Muhammad and demonstrating that That that

chain simply is untenable.

I I think that there are there's reasons for reading the Quran understanding the Quran making Quranic arguments.

But not using the Quran as a positive stepping stone.

Toward a biblical presentation.

I know there are some that do that.

I'm not I'm not saying I think that's so wrong that young God could never use it.

I just I just don't personally think that's the best way to go at all.

Well, thank you, Bruce.

You have also won a free copy of what every Christian needs to know about the Quran so, please make sure we have your full mailing

address and You'll be receiving that God -willing within a week from Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service and thanks to

Bethany house publishers and Baker books.

We have Paul in Sarasota, Florida.

Who says.

I was fortunate to be in Memphis on a business trip and able to attend the discussion between James

and Yasser.

It was abundantly clear from the beginning when James talked about the upcoming dialogue that the intent

was not to have a Let's hold hands discussion.

But to provide an opportunity for two groups with very different perspectives to get a better understanding of each

other.

Without the vitriol which exists in our society today.

That was exactly what I experienced that evening.

Both James and Yasser were very clear during the discussion about their Differences and that

would be clear to anybody who actually takes the time to view the video that is freely available on YouTube.

Any other representation of what happened is a blatant lie and Paul's question is most of

the online commentary I've seen as a result of this attack on you has included calls from both groups to

each other to repent.

I don't find that very useful.

What would you suggest as a response for folks who've actually done their homework and Know the truth and

how to respond to these lies and not in a social media forum, but in personal discussion.

Well, I appreciate the testimony and the reality of what did take place those that were there on both

sides.

Found both evenings to be extremely useful.

They did not find them to be Matters of compromise and we were very much open about that and

and as he himself said it's it's it's just simply a lie.

To say anything else, but that's that's what's being spread around out there.

I wish I had the answer as to how to respond to this.

I'm trying to do the best I can in in remaining balanced.

It's not easy waking up every morning and wondering what new lies have been told about you.

It's not easy doing 30 years of consistent ministry and then having people, you know, just simply throw that out.

Without even doing homework without even fairly analyzing or looking at what you've done.

Yeah, it's it's hurtful.

There's no question about it, but.

And I'm not sure that I've handled it perfectly right either.

But if someone you know walks up to me and and says, you know I just can't believe you've compromised on

Islam.

All I can say is can you please give me an example and I know.

That they say well, you know you you you let a Muslim stand in a church and spread lies.

I said well.

Actually, we met in a church and a mosque.

It was a ticketed event everybody that came there wanted to hear a dialogue between the mom and a Christian.

That's exactly what they heard and there was no compromise ever.

Did you actually even watch them?

I don't know what else to do in a situation like that.

I really don't.

But at the same time as hurtful as it's been I also have received some tremendously encouraging

notes and and and people overseas who've been greatly encouraged and they're reaching out to Muslims and and.

So I you know, God's in control every single time something like this.

Well, nothing like this has ever really happened in the past.

But something of a of a similar nature has happened the past.

God's used it to his honor and glory.

So I just pray he's going to do that again.

Have doors been slammed in my face as a result of this would be a lot of places I'm not to be able to go in the future because of this.

Yeah 20 years from now I'll be answering questions about this.

There's no question about it lies live forever on the Internet.

They live forever on the Internet and I will have to direct people to this program or to the videos I've

done for the next next two decades.

There's there's no question about it, but will there be a greater purpose?

Well, I've I know of at least one guy that I I personally think is the future of this this

one fellow and people like him.

But this fellow especially is the future of Christian apologetics.

Oh, thank you.

Thank you James.

I'm humbled by your comment.

This is our last guest appearance of dr. James R. White,

you know.

He he by seeing how I've responded to this and encouraged in his

is going forward in that area.

So if if that's hey, if I've got to take this stuff for someone else to have that opportunity in the future

great.

That's wonderful.

That's.

That's fine.

Well, we'll do we'll do what's right because you got to have the right purposes and we're just trying to do the right thing.

For the right purposes.

Can you tell us who this person is?

No, of course not.

Okay.

Seriously I couldn't for a number of reasons one of which is he has access to Muslim countries.

Okay, and so no I could.

Okay.

And by the way, Paul since you are a first -time Questioner and that goes for anybody else who wrote an email today

and I think a couple of you perhaps a few of you were first time questioners.

You're not only going to be receiving what every Christian needs to know about the Quran.

But you're also receiving a brand new New American Standard Bible.

Compliments of the publishers of the NASB.

And we thank them for renewing their contract to sponsor iron sharpens iron radio.

Please give us your full mailing address in Sarasota, Florida.

So Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service can ship that out to you.

A compliments of Bethany house publishers and Baker books.

And after reviewing Joe in Slovenia's question I

realized he was not trying to keep himself safe in some way I misread or

misunderstood what he was saying in the beginning.

So let me read you.

Joe in Slovenia's a question, which I also have to enlarge because I'm going blind.

Dear brother Chris.

Thanks for having dr. White today.

I've purposely not exposed myself to any of the controversies surrounding his recent public dialogue because I didn't

want to hear secondhand Accusations.

It is so good to get to hear of these details first from you and dr. White himself.

Thank you for making that possible.

I've never had a conversation with a Muslim because I don't know any.

Personally, I've never been in a situation where I was conversing with one if that ever

happened.

What should I?

Intentionally say.

And what should I intentionally not say at a first casual encounter?

What should I do and not do to foster a second third fourth and so on conversation to?

Intentionally explain Christianity, thank you for taking my question and thanks for being so

Christlike in your pursuit of sharing the gospel with Muslims.

That's Joe in Slovenia.

But anything I was just in the Czech Republic and we had some folks visiting as I was teaching there from Slovenia.

So It was a beautiful country wonderful wonderful people and a very difficult

language to understand.

I assure you but Look the wonderful thing about about speaking with Muslims is the vast

majority of them do want to talk to you and they they want to talk to you about Jesus, for example, they

they believe that they believe in Jesus and If you can do anything if you've got a situation where it looks like, you

know It's a new neighbor somebody at school that you're gonna have further conversations with then what you want to do is

you want to?

Find some way of getting them to read the Gospels to read any of the Gospels.

Mark is where I would start and I don't even jump to John a lot of them have heard negative things about John.

Start with Mark because the vast majority of Muslims have never read any portion of the Bible at all and

To just simply be introduced to the Jesus of Scripture is the greatest thing you can do.

Get them to read the Word of God and if you've got to read something from them in In exchange fine

it you know, one of the things that's really sad to me is there's a bunch of Christians have demonstrated They just don't believe that Jesus can keep his sheep.

They really really believe that the gospel is not nearly as powerful as falsehood because well, we just wait.

You're like that.

You couldn't get into a conversation.

You might hear falsehood.

Hey, if you know the truth you'll recognize the falsehood.

Christ knows his own devil is a the sheep every single one of them is going to be saved and.

So if you can get them to to read From the Gospels and then be prepared to

discuss some of the objections.

They may have objections to synoptic Gospels and alleged contradictions and stuff like that.

But if you can just get them to hear about the Jesus of the New Testament.

That is the single most important thing you do aside from Investing yourself in them have them over

to dinner demonstrate that you're a human being that cares about them.

Wants to know about their life and model Jesus Christ for them.

It's the greatest thing you can possibly and that's exactly what happened with the conversion of Rosaria Butterfield Who you mentioned earlier

the leftist lesbian professor who came to Christ the result of this kind of kindness.

And we are out of time.

Joe in London England, we cannot ask your question today, but perhaps dr. White when he returns.

God willing if that happens.

We hope it does.

You can ask the question then.

Thank You Joan Slovenia for providing an American address where we will ship this book to you to your daughter.

What every Christian needs to know about the Quran.

If you want to learn more about dr James R. White and the dividing line broadcast and all the books he's written

and all the debates He's participated in go to a o m. I n org a o m.

I n org.

Thank you.

Dr. White I really hope that you Return to iron trip and Zion radio soon, and if you wouldn't mind holding on before we go

off the air.

Thank you, sir.

And I want to thank everybody who listened and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ Is a far greater Savior

than you are a sinner.