June 26, 2017 Show with Dr. James R. White on “Dr. James R. White In His Own Words: A Detailed Summary by the Man Himself of His Actual Understanding of, Mission to, & Affection Toward the Muslim People”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors

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Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour

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And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions

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Now here's our host Chris Arnton Good Afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron

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Radio .com. This is Chris Arntz and your host of iron sharpens iron wishing you all a happy Monday on this 26th day of June 2017

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I am so delighted after a very long absence from iron sharpens iron that we have returning as a guest today

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Dr. James R. White who is an elder of the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church in Phoenix, Arizona director of Alpha and Omega ministries host of the dividing line bi -weekly broadcast sometimes tri -weekly

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New Testament Greek scholar world -renowned Christian apologist seasoned debater and highly sought -after

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Conference speaker and author of numerous books including what every Christian needs to know about the

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Quran Today a dr. White is addressing. Dr. James R. White in his own words as detailed summary by the man himself of his actual understanding of Mission to an affection toward the

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Muslim people and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron. Dr. James R. White Yep, and I wish it could be under better circumstances that you're back

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Yes you know The the thing that I keep hearing a lot about I even posted this on Facebook.

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I've been hearing a lot about lately is the concept of taqiyah that we should not trust

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Muslims because taqiyah is apparently a Quranic allowance for Muslims to deceive

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Those outside of the Islamic faith under certain circumstances and this has been repeated often by by Professing Christians and especially those in apologetics ministries to make us all distrust any and all

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Muslims but I think it's quite interesting that we have a lot of Christian taqiyah quote -quote going on here because people think it's completely acceptable to Grossly exaggerate and slander you

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Because they think that the ends justify the means For some higher purpose that they believe is going on here in regard to defending

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Christianity and the free world from Islam, but if you could tell us about how this all started since the

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The writing of your book in the publishing of your book what every Christian needs to know about the Quran That is a book that seems to be universally

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Accepted as an excellent book even by your strongest critics, which is very odd But in fact even before you wrote that book going all the way back to I know that you don't count it

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But it's your first right your first debate that I organized With your your very first Muslim debate with Hamza Abdul Malik on the deity of Christ You don't count that because at that time you were defending the

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Christian position on the deity of Christ from the scriptures and knew Not nearly what you know today on Islam.

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So I understand why you don't really count that as one of your Muslim debates But if you could trace the origins of how this eventually came to what we have going on now

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Well at first everyone needs to understand that Chris is not talking about taqiyah. He was talking about taqiyah.

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There's there's there's there's an alcoholic drink I Think a lot of people are really confused that particular point in time and we really

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You need to be clear. You need to clarify that. I haven't touched a key in quite a long time Yeah, okay, so where do you where do you begin let's just try to lay a foundation here as of I think last year the year before last

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The number of debates moderate public debates I've done with Muslims Is is now the largest number?

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Roman Catholics had been the largest group. Thanks to you primarily for many years, but Especially since I've been going down to South Africa a lot and doing a lot of debates in London I've now done more moderate public debates with Muslims around the world and with Roman Catholic Wow, so Yeah, I'm over over 40 now,

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I'm getting close to one more and I'll be at 160 moderate public debates around the world so Obviously has become an area of focus for me

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But you know, I really nothing has changed as far as I'm concerned outside of maybe

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Maybe starting about seven years ago. I I started to realize that if I could sit down and talk with my

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Opponent maybe over lunch or dinner or something before the debate it had it It had a huge impact upon the actual debate itself.

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It made the debate much much better It would it would lower the the temperature shall we say of the rhetoric and it would greatly

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Make the debate much more useful and I even noticed audience questions would better because they would see that the the two people up front had a respect for one another had a relationship with one another

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So I guess something did change there and I just realized that if you if you know the person you're talking to and you've

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Expressed to them what your desires are why you do this? They know that you're a human being you're not just there to to beat up on them.

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Then we completely changed the character of of these encounters and so I started doing that with Adnan Rashid in Dublin a number of years ago and every time

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I have that opportunity it just really completely changes things and so I Certainly, you know if I have changed it's it's

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I desire to be much more Gracious and kind I want to be

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I want to get myself out of the way So if the message of the gospel and the message of the

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Christian faith can be the primary thing I I don't matter. So I want to get out of the way.

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It's not me. It's it's not anything about me it's I want the message to be there so but as far as as What we've been doing and the message that we've had in the response have been giving to Islam Nothing has changed at all.

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And in fact starting about 2006 2007 I did my first formal

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Muslim debate as you pointed out with Shabir Ali at Biola University in 2006 and so that's when my

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I really started digging into studying Arabic and and and studying Islam and the

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Quran and and reading the Hadith and so on and so forth and It was in that context that I was put in contact by Shabir Ali With Sheikh Yasir Qadhi now

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Yasir Qadhi at that time would have been identified as a Salafi scholar very conservative younger individual and I was put in contact by Shabir Ali.

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I wrote to him and he sent me His 16 CD series light and guidance and as he said in the dialogue that we had in Memphis about half year ago now, which is the cause of all this controversy

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He said he just sort of expected. I just you know, put the CDs in my shelf and that would be it Well, he was wrong

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I converted them to mp3. I listened to them all writing I listened to them more than once while writing because I found it absolutely fascinating This is this is actually

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Yasir Qadhi teaching other Muslims about Islam his his He is memorized the

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Quran in Arabic his Arabic is very good and that was very helpful as I'm studying Arabic at that time and I learned things that I had not seen or heard of any anyplace else because this is a

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Muslim talking to Muslims not a Muslim trying to talk to Christians and There's an absolutely nothing new at all about my going to original sources

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I learned when I first started studying Mormonism as literally as a teenager That that's what you need to do

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If you're going to be honest You're going to be consistent you go to the original sources you find out what Mormons actually believe by talking to Mormons and by reading

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Mormon books and you find out what Jehovah's Witnesses believe by getting their books and and Documenting your sources, and I never

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I never took a class where someone said this is what you need to do It just seemed to me to be the proper and appropriate way of doing things to accurately represent others

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Especially because I would say hey, you know when someone misrepresent me I'm like hey You can find out what

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I believe we need to be accurate and truthful here And so if I'm going to say that then I need to extend that same thing to somebody else well

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Evidently if you actually believe that in practice that you're in you're in a rather small minority in the world today

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But we'll we'll get to that another point so this was an excellent opportunity for me and listening to Yasir Qadhi to hear a

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Salafi Muslim Lecturing other Muslims now. I recognize there. You know Salafi is a sub subset of the

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Sunnis So I recognize. This is just one part of Islam. You've got the

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Shiites obviously you've got the Ahmadi which are not really considered Muslims by the other other branches, but Are very much in that that realm as well, so I've always recognized that there is a range of Muslim of Islam expressed out there

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Just like there is a range of what calls itself Christianity, and you have to find out you know who am

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I talking to? What's the well give an example? You know that not really first, but Chris Arndt and wants to say it's first because Chris is

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Chris With With Hamza al -Dilmalik

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As you know Hamza doesn't hold the positions now that he held when we first met him

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That's right when he first showed up at the Long Island debates on Roman Catholic.

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He's a Quran only Muslim now He's a Quran only Muslim. He's no longer Sunni. He doesn't accept the authority to Hadith.

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He dresses in Western clothing Is he not a Muslim anymore? Well the Sunni might say that he's not

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I think he would say that he is but The point is that that I've never labored under the misconception

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That there is a monolithic Islam that there's just one one Islam and all

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Muslims believe the same thing and and they can all just be put into one big Bucket because I just realized that's irrational you can't take a billion people and ignore the differences that exist between them

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I've always taught everybody even when you're talking to Mormons Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, I for years

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I thought there's a much broader expression of Mormonism than there is Jehovah's Witnesses Jehovah's Witnesses is a very very narrow expression of belief because it's you know

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A lot of control much wider range of opinions amongst Mormons. Well, that's only gotten worse and worse over time my goodness in the sense that Mormonism is has fallen on really hard time shall we say but That's just always been a part of how

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I have functioned and so so much of this controversy It's come up over the past couple of weeks.

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I find just to be completely amazing because you know, I'm being accused of having

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Compromised being a useful idiot and all the rest of stuff and all I'm doing is the same things I've been doing for 30 years or more in ministry.

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I'm just making consistent application and it's I Guess just come to people's attention that I think the most important thing that we need to do is communicate the gospel of folks

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So anyway to make a long story short Which is already a long story to begin with back

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You know, I should have looked up the date. I think it was January wasn't it? Was it was January this year? Um, I went to a couple of different places and I I drove down to Memphis, Tennessee and I I Years ago,

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I had attempted I had spoke with dr. Cotty. He wasn't doctor yet. He was working on his doctor at that time and I Tried to convince him to write a book with me on the differences between a believing

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Muslim and a believing Christian and He almost did but said he had to finish his doctorate first.

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And so he didn't do that And so we would you know, most the time I would be the one who would email him with a question

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But sometimes just out of the blue I'd get an email from him and he'd ask a question about Christianity like I'm gonna be at this

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Dialogue what's difference between a Lutheran and Methodist? You know type of a thing? And so I Contacted him and what had happened was about I don't know a year and a half two years ago

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I had seen an article appear on the Internet That was specifically designed in my opinion.

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I'll stand by this was specific design To make it look like he was some kind of jihadi hiding in Memphis just waiting to jump out and open fire with an ak -47 or something and it was written in such a way as to try to create division by saying he believes that Christians are filthy and it was all meant to make him just look as Bad as possible.

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Well, I have realized a couple things. First of all, I had realized that Yasser Qadhi was Moving away from the

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Salafi perspective I had called him a Salafi scholar in my book and about I don't know two three months after the book came out

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I hear an interview with him on NPR someplace saying why I really wouldn't use that terminology myself anymore.

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I'm like, oh great but I Knew the exact sources from which this article had been drawn and it was a

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Lecture on shirk shirk is the unforgivable sin in Islam shirk is association of anyone or anything with the law and Most Muslims believe that we as Christians are guilty of shirk.

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We're mushy coolant We we associate Jesus with God and therefore we are guilty of this

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Unforgivable sin unforgivable in the sense of you die without having repented of it. You can never be forgiven there is a possibility of post -mortem forgiveness in Islamic theology and so I had

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Responded to this article because you know, I I knew what

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Yasser Qadhi had been saying and I knew what the I'd listened to his lecture than at least twice and So I point out the dividing line.

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Hey This is a misrepresentation of him in the sense that you're trying to make it sound like this is some terrible horrible thing

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The reality is what he's saying is is it because Christians are guilty of shirk

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Anyone who engages in idolatry is not right with God and therefore is

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Negus they are filthy in God's sight. Well, I'm like, excuse me. Anybody read the book of Isaiah read

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You know, I know all our righteous deeds or is what filthy rags before the Lord? I mean all he's doing is giving a consistent

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Islamic understanding of the fact that idolatry is a sin before God and They accused us of idolatry if I if I can't understand what it is they're saying about us

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How can I ever interact with them about how can I ever? Explain to them that we're not actually engaged in idolatry that the

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Trinity isn't shirk How can I do that if I won't listen to him and allow him to define his own position

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So I did a segment on the dividing line basically saying, you know, this is just attempting to Erect barriers, how are we ever supposed to talk to these folks who won't listen to what they're saying won't let them define their own beliefs

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I disagree with what he's saying, but I understand what he's saying. And here's what I'd say in response basically is what

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I did well, dr. Cotty had seen that and He had appreciated the the fact that that I attempted to fairly

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Not defend his position But defend his right to have his position and therefore to be able to interact with it in a meaningful fashion

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Which is all I've ever done. I mean You know in the Roman Catholic debates that we've done

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I'm not sitting up there trying to create a straw man of what Rome actually teaches. I want to actually

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Accurately represent what the Roman Catholic Church teaches because that's just simply how you do Christian apology.

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That's right In fact, in fact you whenever you have debated a Roman Catholic author

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You always made sure you read what the person had published. Oh, yeah

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Exactly, that's that's that it's just necessary. It's you have to do it. So basically, what happened is

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I contacted him I said look I'm gonna be in the Memphis area and What would you think about getting together and having a discussion?

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in regards to What it's like to be an American Muslim We can we can and and from the beginning and yasser will tell you this from the beginning.

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It's like James I I don't do debates. I Just I've you would have so much of an advantage, you know so much about you know

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He's been very kind to saying I know a lot about Islam and You're a Christian scholar.

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He says I don't know anything about Christianity and You'd have a huge advantage. I said

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I'm not talking about debate I'm talking about a discussion where we lay these things out. You can explain where you're coming from and so Eventually and and with some fear and trepidation on his part

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Because we had to we had to you know Have a few phone conversations and I understand why

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I mean given given how I'm now being treated by his people and I know how He's treated by his people. I can see why he was a little bit concerned

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From the start to be willing to trust somebody to actually do what I was saying.

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I would I would actually do but we we scheduled this meeting and I reached out to the folks in Memphis and Grace Bible Church said, you know, hey, we'll love we'll we'll let you do that here

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And I want to make sure everyone understands this. This was not a church service This is a ticketed event.

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You had to have tickets to get in. They weren't sold. They were free But we only had so much room.

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So it was a ticketed event, which means every single person that walked through that door Wanted to be there and they wanted to hear a

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Christian Muslim dialogue they wanted to hear that that that if they weren't walking in thinking they're attending a church service and Ended up getting preached to by an imam or something.

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That's that that's what people are trying to say happen. That's absurd That's fake news.

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You know, it's it's CNN all over the place, but so we scheduled it and then we were able through his travel schedule changing and stuff to Schedule the second night at the

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Muslim at the Memphis Islamic Center Where he's the imam and so we did two nights and it's fascinating almost 99 % of the criticism that I've received for this has been focused on the first night almost nothing on the second night at all and We got together and I started off and I made it very very very clear that This is a believing

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Muslim and a believing Christian. We are not here to compromise our beliefs

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We are here to explain our beliefs to try to understand what each other is is actually believing and in the midst of all the misrepresentations and all the emotion and all everything else is out there and Obviously the first night at the church.

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I primarily asked dr. Coddy questions About his faith and about where he's coming from and what it's like to live as a

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Muslim in the United States and and we Don't get me wrong. We we touched on some some, you know hotwire subjects, you know at one point

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For example, I talked about my belief that God's judgment is upon Western culture and the

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United States specifically because of our spitting in God's face our our murder of unborn children our perversion of marriage perversion of God's ordained

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Roles of men and women etc. Etc. I was very clear and he looks at me and basically says

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James You realize I I can't even I can't go there. I'm not allowed to go

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Can you imagine what would happen if I if I even Started to say the things you just said and he was right

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In fact, you were doing that the day after 9 -11. I mean or even on the day of 9 -11

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Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it was it's been two days I did that I did that to the dividing line where I you know, god bless

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America with with heartfelt repentance Yeah, I I've been doing that all along and I get to do that because I am a white

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Christian American he is a Obviously of Pakistani descent and he's a

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Muslim so he doesn't get to do that And so, I mean I brought that up and I could tell oh wow, you know, he he's in a tough spot here as to as to what what he can say it's also so it wasn't like we were just sitting there sipping lattes and Practicing Chris long and stuff like that.

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We were talking about tough subjects and Then the next night He has

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I'm sitting right In front of the mimbar I'm right up where he has just led the prayers they set up a table and he starts talking about how he's gotten to know me and he's just been amazed at my

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Studies of Islam is like that. And then the first question he asked me this is James. We're Muslim. We don't get it

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Please explain the Trinity to us So here I am sitting in the mosque and the Imam says please explain the praise

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God So I explain the Trinity no pushback, these are not debates these are discussions

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So he so the next question is so why did Jesus have to die? You know,

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I mean We we have this incredible opportunity that both nights that the

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Chris what what these my my critics won't even touch and won't even acknowledge is what happened after these these encounters

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You've seen some of these debates and After a debate takes place

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It can be really weird Each debate's a little bit different But you know you'll get some of the hotheads over here arguing with other hotheads over there and you and I have left to go to a

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Diner to eat it. Who knows what time at night? Standing in the in the in the parking lot going at it after the day, right?

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It just happens and so so I've noticed that in Christian Muslim debates very frequently after the debate you've got the

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Muslims over one side of the room and you got the Christians over in the other side of the room and They're all talking about you know, what what happened?

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At the church the church had had refreshments for us they were so gracious and they have been so unfairly attacked

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Pray for them, you know contact them and say thank you for putting yourselves out there, you know, they

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I'm just just it just saddened me so much The the heat that they think I'm used to taking this type of this type.

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Well, not this type of heat This is I've never seen anything like this before but but still but they had provided refreshments the mosque did the same thing the next night and so both nights

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Instead of the Muslims over here in the Christians over there Everyone is talking together

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Praise God and Muslims talking together and I stood there watching this going this doesn't happen

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Almost there's there were a couple debates have had where it did happen it was unusual, but it was all also always because I in the

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Muslim had had lunch or dinner beforehand and Had sort of set the tone by the way that we treated one another and then that meant that the audience then felt the freedom to overcome the barriers and they they're talking and and at the church

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I had these three Muslim men come up to me and Greet me as they were leaving and they said thank you so much for doing this

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This is this is incredible and I looked at the one in the center the older one the center and I sort of lowered my

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Voice and I said, let me ask you Did you feel welcome here this evening and his eyes teared up and he said

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I Didn't think this was possible. I did not think this was Wow and in talking with these people

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Down there in the Bible Belt. It's the here's the sad thing Chris. Here's the sad thing they the

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Muslims down there can tell the difference between liberals and Bible -believing

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Christians, they can tell that the liberals don't really believe the Bible and they don't really have any firm

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Theology, but those are the people that will generally be nice to them But they also recognize that they're different from them because they don't have any type of firm conviction and firm faith

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The Bible -believing Christians are scared to death them. They won't talk to them. They treat them like they're lepers and And they they really that the

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Muslim community as a whole sees Conservative Bible -believing

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Christians as individuals who want to have absolutely positively nothing to do with them at all and so for them to be invited in to a church and Treated that way.

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They were absolutely positively blown away. Amazing. I'm gonna play a Clip of the beginning the opening statements of this event that we are discussing

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This is the the first night of the two -night event in the church where Yasir Qadhi is given most of the time to speak and Explain his own beliefs and so on and I'm hoping that our listeners listen to every word because sometimes a certain word or phrase smothers everything else and you'll have the

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Radical rabid opponents of you those who weren't necessarily always that way they will they will pounce on certain words and phrases and distort them out of their context and Everything else seems to disappear from the the audio but this is this this is just a portion of the the opening remarks that you made to get a real

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Understanding of the setting of why you and Yasir Qadhi were were meeting to begin with and here that clip is

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I Have been looking forward to this evening for a very very long time it has been my desire to engage in a dialogue like this and When the opportunity came that I'd be coming into this area.

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I contacted dr. Qadhi and I put out the call and the church here was was so kind to respond and to Join with us and providing a place for us to have our conversation this evening

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I want you to understand what our motivations are this evening in coming together

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This is not a debate. Some of you have seen debates that I have done around the world

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This is not intended to be a debate We are going to of necessity discuss differences that we have

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The thing that makes this wonderful and the reason that I sought out dr Qadhi aside from the fact that I have learned so much from him

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Over the years that he's been a primary influence in my study of Islam I am a student of Islam and I have learned much from him but the reason

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I specifically sought him out is because I sense in him such a kindred spirit on the other side of The chasm that divides us in regards to our theology and our beliefs he is a consistent

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Muslim he believes what he says he wants to seek for consistency amongst his people in his own practice and So when you have two believing people one

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Christian one Muslim come together and say we need to discuss not only what divides us

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But also where do we have similarities? How can we live in the same community and the most important thing is this

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If we do what we if we do what I hope happens this evening, we're gonna do something absolutely unique It hardly ever happens and that is two communities where unfortunately there is a lot of fear on both sides there is a lot of misunderstanding on both sides and As a

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Christian I want to see doors opened as a Christian I want you as if you are a

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Christian here this evening to not have fear of the Muslim people But to have love for the

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Muslim people I want the Muslim people to understand that we care and that we want to have dialogue and That we're not seeking this evening to sweep our differences under the rug and say they don't matter

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Dr. Khadi cannot present an Islam that is just simply one view amongst many

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I Believe in divine revelation. He believes in divine revelation. So how do we get along?

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How do our communities talk to one another the sad fact the matter is that conversation isn't happening?

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And I want to start tonight and I want to start here So if you're a praying person pray that we will have understanding that as if you're a

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Christian I want you to hear what this man has to say I want you to understand why he believes the things he does what his

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Life is like here in the United States as a Muslim And I want you to hear especially when he talks about what

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Islam is and what it is not and who speaks for Islam and all These types of things I want you to hear so that we can have better communication with one another

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That's why we're here this evening. I hope that's why you've come here this evening please

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No audience reactions or participation Let us do the the conversation.

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We're gonna have the audience questions later on But I very much appreciate you coming here. Dr. Khadi is a

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Muslim scholar. He has written books. I for example was Very very happy to receive from him a 16

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CD series called light and guidance And it tremendously helped me to get a basic understanding of you know, so I get the lay of the land

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He has he is an expert in Hadith I think I've sort of scared him a little bit by telling him that Sometimes and in August in Phoenix where I live

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I have to ride it literally to 33 o 'clock in the morning if you can even survive and I have distinct memories

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At that time in the morning of riding my bike in the desert listening to him lecture on Hadith sciences

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I think even the Muslims will go that is really weird because I don't even I don't even think they do that Can you get no they don't know they don't do that?

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That's really weird But he is an expert in in those areas. We're gonna be talking about a lot of these things we're gonna be explaining what we're talking about we want to bring everyone along and Hopefully at the end of this evening when we go over there to have refreshments

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The Christians and the Muslims together we'll be able to have conversation

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And many of the misunderstandings that separate us right now will be laid aside There won't be any compromise because we both believe very firmly in what we believe in what we profess

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So how in light of that do we get along? That's why we're here this evening. Dr. Kati, sir You honor us with your presence.

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Thank you very very much for being well, that was the clip that seemed to start a whirlwind of controversy amongst many people even

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Some who profess to be theologically aligned with dr. James or white and we're going to be discussing some of the points

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Within that opening statement or those opening statements that dr. White made when we come back from our break

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If you'd like to join us, our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com Chris arnzen at gmail .com,

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please. Give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence and You may feel more comfortable remaining anonymous.

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I understand but we will only accept anonymous Questions from those who are asking about a personal and private matter perhaps you're a

34:18

Muslim and you don't want to identify your your name I understand that but we're not going to take any derogatory marks remarks from unidentified individuals

34:28

But we would love to hear from you whether you agree or disagree with dr White after these messages in our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com

34:39

Chris arnzen at gmail .com Don't go away. We're gonna be right back. God willing with dr.

34:45

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39:13

Welcome back. This is Chris Arns And if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with 90 minutes to go is dr

39:19

James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries an author of many books including what every Christian Needs to know about the

39:27

Quran. We are discussing today. Dr James R. White in his own words a detailed summary by the man himself as of his actual understanding of Mission to an affection toward the

39:39

Muslim people if you'd like to join us on the air Our email address is Chris Arns and at gmail .com

39:45

chris arnz n at gmail .com and always please give us at least your first name city and state and country of residents if you live outside the

39:53

USA and you only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter and We do have a lot of people already waiting for their questions to be asked and answered by you.

40:04

Dr White but before we go to them, I want to analyze a little bit about The opening statements that have been a part of the uproar

40:12

It seems that people go deaf After hearing certain words uttered.

40:18

Yeah, and they totally dismiss everything else that you're saying When in taken in context everything that you're saying makes complete and perfect sense

40:28

Well, but that's taking in context and and that's the problem before before we do that and and we need to do that But I there was one other thing

40:34

I wanted to add that You see the way we did this moved the focus of the apologetic interaction off of me and Yasir Qadhi onto the people so in other words the

40:48

The the conversation started happening amongst the people in the audience rather than just the people up front and that's what scares a lot of people there's a lot of people that really

40:57

I'll just be straight up front do not have much confidence in the power of the gospel and So they think that you have to hide people you have to protect people from from any other any other perspective viewpoint

41:08

This is primarily amongst American Christians because Christians I've talked with Christians outside of the

41:14

United States that have heard about all this and they're like Controversy what what kind of earth? What what do you mean? What you did is exactly how we have to do it every single day 40 countries.

41:24

This is the only way we can't we can't stand on street corners. We can't stand with signs outside of mosque You have to you have to get to know

41:32

Muslims You have to purchase that opportunity of demonstrating that your message of love is actually connected to a loving person, etc

41:39

Etc. So they're just befuddled by the whole thing It just must be this weird American thing, which which basically it is the second night

41:47

Chris I want you to picture this in your mind the second night We're staying outside. I'm having a lovely chocolate chip cookie.

41:54

It is it is really really good and We're outside the Memphis Islamic Center. I've we've had a wonderful evening it's been it's been a great that we've been really warmly received and These two young ladies walk up to me in full burqa

42:12

Beautiful, you know embroidered patterns and and so on so forth and One of them says to me.

42:19

Thank you very much for coming. This was this was really incredible But could I ask you a question and and I said yes, and she says

42:28

How do you handle the impact of pagan religion upon the development of the doctrine of the

42:33

Trinity the Council of Nicaea? Now I'm I'm trying not to be unkind here

42:41

But a large portion a large portion of the people who have been calling me a useful idiot over the past few weeks

42:49

Would not know how to answer that question They don't know anything about church history

42:57

Trinitarian theology development to theology all things I've been teaching for decades And I was able to stand there for 10 minutes with this young lady and talk to her not only about what

43:08

Constantine's actual role was to Council of Nicaea, but what actually happened the Council of Nicaea going back earlier to Ignatius and Quoting his words to the

43:17

Ephesians about we have one one physician of God of flesh and spirit God and man and Talking about the two natures of Jesus Christ and and went through all and she was listening with rapt

43:31

Attention and was so thankful for the information that Doesn't happen after the vast majority of debates.

43:39

It just doesn't and So that's the kind of door that was opened up. We want to do it again.

43:45

We're going to do it again We're not going to allow people who just simply will ignore what's going on and accuse us of compromise.

43:52

There was no compromise I'm standing outside the mosque defending the Trinity for crying out loud And yet and yet there are people there are quote -unquote

44:01

Christian leaders saying useful idiot for Islam doesn't know anything about what he's talking about so on so forth and it and They just won't listen.

44:09

They just simply won't listen to what is actually Taking place. It was it was a tremendous opportunity and I'm just very very thankful for it.

44:21

It's just amazing that nearly half a year later all of a sudden It's exploded into the great controversies.

44:27

Well the thing and I I'm sorry if you get upset with me but when this started happening, I couldn't help but laugh actually because I've known you for 22 years and have organized quite a number of debates with you mainly

44:42

Roman Catholic But also with Muslims and with liberal Protestants and an atheist and the pro homosexuals and so on and The constant rhetoric that I have battled in defense of you is dr.

44:57

White is a nasty mean hateful bigot And for the all of a sudden you to become.

45:05

Mr. Rogers reincarnated and captain of the ecumenical cream puff factory

45:11

I I just couldn't help but laugh and I'm like what on earth is happening here and I Can't help

45:19

I can't help but think a couple of things I I think about the and I'm not broad brushing

45:25

So, please if this does not fit you who are listening Don't take this as a personal insult, but I can't help some of this vitriol in opposition to you is

45:36

Somewhat akin to the Billy the Kid or the Jesse James syndrome where?

45:42

People want to be the first gunslinger to bring down The the most notable or one of the most notable apologists the

45:50

United States They feel slighted in some way. They want to achieve some kind of Notoriety or fame and they want to publicly attack you and that is the only way they could possibly

46:03

Get publicity because they know that there are some Who smell blood in the water and that will follow their their slanders?

46:13

I can't help but think that's a part of it But it's just amazing how many of these people would also join us in opposing?

46:22

vehemently opposing the God hates fags group But for some reason that kind of approach is okay with Muslims.

46:29

It seems you understand what I'm saying? Yeah Yeah, well, there's a lot of you know

46:35

I I know a lot more about what's going on behind the scenes and some people think that I do and I I know this

46:41

Is a coordinated effort, but what's going on now? What's really frightening now is that once some of these articles get out there is that article published about me?

46:49

on Saturday in American thinker which is a pretty well -known website and it was all they did though was they just simply took the talking points from Brannon house's article and sort of repeated them and threw in some of their own stuff and When I contacted the author of the article and I said could

47:10

I just ask this is by Twitter's guys ask why didn't you contact me and His response was well, maybe

47:16

I should have And then I wrote back have you and I asked

47:21

I think three questions did have you seen any of my debates Read any of my books and there was a third. It was just it was just basically a research question

47:28

Did you do any meaningful research and his response was I didn't have to you're wrong

47:34

So it's like oh Okay, I thought I was talking to a journalist forgive me

47:40

I I didn't realize this was just simply an editorial piece Presented as if it was somehow some type of journalism and yet that thing has been picked up Tens of thousands of shares over and over and over again.

47:54

There is this whole You know, the left has got their weird people that don't do any homework and they do their fake news

48:01

Guess what? The right does do the right does as well and there's a lot of politics involved here

48:07

And there's a lot of people who just simply say look, you know, the big thing has been look

48:13

You know, you mentioned at the beginning Takiyah. Come on. This this guy's a Muslim. You can't believe a word.

48:19

He has to say So so and even when you point out that Yasir Qadhi has been slated for death by Isis twice in their online publication their response that it wasn't because he's the competition and So it doesn't it doesn't really matter and he can say that he believes the things that he says, but somehow we on this side and It's people who call themselves

48:46

Christians, but it's also there's also a very strongly strong political element to this as well

48:52

We'll say we get to define what Islam is and any Muslim that does not

48:58

Believe and say what we say true Islam is they're just lying and You know

49:05

Yasir Qadhi himself said to me said James. How do you have a conversation with someone who starts?

49:11

by stating That anything you say about your own faith is going to be a lie. How do you reason with someone like that?

49:18

It's not possible to do and he's exactly right and so that I have seen a very ugly side of people who call themselves evangelicals and yet are absolutely afraid that the gospel would

49:37

That for them presenting the gospel is handing somebody a tract and then running

49:45

That that's why that's why you don't find these people in Muslim majority countries or leaving it leaving a tract on a table at a restaurant with a very bad tip

49:53

Yeah, you know that that's how it works and and it's frightening to me because That you know someone pointed out on on Twitter just before the program started and I had thought about this myself

50:07

Have you interviewed Rosario Butterfield? Yes, I've interviewed her three times. Okay As someone said on Twitter the attitudes that have been expressed by these critics

50:19

Would be the very attitudes that would drive any Rosario Butterfield away from ever considering Christianity because it was the willingness of Her Christian friends to get to know her as an individual and to risk that That was the mechanism through which the gospel was able to be communicated to her.

50:39

And what I'm seeing is that for the vast majority of Conservative Christians in the

50:46

United States, they have such a fear I've been talking about this for months, but for years actually

50:51

But now over the past few weeks that this has been brought to incredibly sharp focus I guess I needed to be even sharper than it was

51:00

There if we have fear in our hearts, we will not extend ourselves

51:05

We will not allow ourselves to be used as vessels of mercy You cannot deliver a message of love and compassion and And mercy and and everything else if you yourself are not living within that experience yourself if you if you don't have love towards someone it could be very difficult for you to communicate a message of love to them and What I learned from Dr.

51:31

Cotty is as they look at conservative Christians in the Bible Belt in Memphis They see people who are afraid of them who do not like them and do not want to have anything to do with them

51:42

So why should they even consider the message that they might hand them that might be an attract?

51:47

They might hand them or something along those lines. They know the liberals don't have a message for them So there's no evangelism going on That's the problem and when we try to do it because we are upsetting a

52:01

Very very well funded and very very well manned Mima which is every

52:09

Muslim a liar every Muslims hiding an ak -47 behind their back and So therefore we need to you know shut down all avenues of communication

52:20

Wow That's not an option for a Christian. It is not an option. Could I be lied to by a

52:25

Muslim? Yes, could I be hurt by a Muslim? Yes Could anyone the early church have been lied to or hurt by a

52:31

Jewish person in the context of the early church in Palestine Yes So what were they supposed to do stop witnessing?

52:38

No, trust God do what you do what you do You might end up like Steven, you know

52:44

You might end up like Steven but that's what we're called to do and we've lost that where we we love the comfort of our nice comfy homes and our 401ks and Just leave those people out there.

52:54

I don't want to get this is this you get too messy I'm not gonna I'm not gonna go there and it's a frightening thing to see well you just said something that I think is at the heart of this with a lot of us who are not as Studied as you is the black and white version of Christianity versus Islam is much easier to understand.

53:16

It doesn't take a lot of study and reading and labor And and you know devoting hours countless hours of time pouring over the documents of a foreign religion a religion foreign to our own understanding of how to be made right with God and so on and So I think that there is an aspect of laziness

53:40

That all of us are guilty of in regard to having anything in opposition

53:45

To say about your approach But before I even I want to continue on that thread a little bit later

53:52

But I want to go over some of what was said in the opening statements that have caused such uproar

53:58

And it's ironic to me that those who that would call themselves apologists

54:04

Would recognize you would hope that that involves understanding the theological opponents that you have

54:13

According to what they have to say about themselves and what they believe Using their own documents and their own sources.

54:20

You would think there would be nothing wrong if you want to study that the aspect the deeper aspects of Islam or Hinduism or Buddhism or a whole spectrum of different religions if someone were to Provide you that information from that religion you would think it would be appropriate for a

54:42

Christian to say Thank you. I've learned much from the information that you have given me about your religion

54:49

I am indebted to you for this. This is invaluable to me in my ministry, etc, etc And yet you have these apologists saying he is

54:59

Compromising the Christian faith by even thanking a Muslim And saying that he's indebted to this man because of what he's learned about Islam not about what you've learned about Salvation, but what you've learned about Islam if you could comment about what

55:14

I just said Well that obviously what I've heard over and over again is or he's your mentor.

55:20

He's your he's your jihadi mentor That's what people have been saying and what I obviously said was

55:26

I did learn much from him He is a very clear speaker. He's a very good teacher And I spent hours listening to his lectures and it was very very helpful to me

55:37

And I feel very very sorry for anybody who thinks that there's something wrong about Accurately learning about what other people believe, you know that before my my

55:48

Roman Catholic debates I would listen to hours of The lectures or the debates of the people that I'd be debating with because I wanted to accurately represent them understand what their position was

56:01

For the very purpose of being able to communicate most clearly in that particular context and so for people to go

56:07

I just can't believe a Christian would say they learned something from a Muslim that says much more about you and your attitude

56:13

Toward another human being and the fact that you're never going to be able to have a meaningful interaction with somebody

56:20

Then it says about me being willing to say, you know what I still have more to learn

56:26

In fact, I've had people say see you just say you're a student of Islam. My guys are experts on Islam.

56:31

Well, okay So I'm I'm willing to admit that Islam is a huge subject and I don't think anyone who started

56:40

I started What 11 about 11 years ago now, so I started about 43 years of age studying

56:47

Islam I don't think there's enough time in life left to ever really become an expert So obviously you and I define expert in different ways, so I'm just going to be honest and say hey

56:57

I am I am a student Take what I have said compare the consistency of it.

57:03

Look at the debate Read the books see for yourself But this it's sad to me that there are people who are

57:11

Christians who would go I just can't believe you would learn anything from people in a false religion. That's just horrific well that tells you a little something about the background you have

57:18

I I can name names of Mormons from whom I learned much about Mormonism if you don't learn from them

57:26

We're gonna be learning from or just read Christians, but we'll have the Christians find out It it does leave me just completely befuddled as to what people are thinking

57:37

But there is a deep deep deep prejudice amongst many people I see it every single morning for the past two weeks and I've gotten up I've been faced with massive prejudice as soon as I've turned on the on the computer

57:50

And it's it's a sad thing to observe. Well, we have to go to another break right now This is an elongated break that is required by Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida who has been airing my program in a pre -recorded version since the g3 conference that took place last

58:09

January and I need to have a 12 -minute gap between the two segments, so we're gonna be taking an elongated break right now

58:18

But we hope that you join us with questions of your own There are already quite a number of you who are waiting patiently to have your questions asked at least

58:26

I think you're waiting patiently I have no idea whether you're patient or not But you're waiting to have your questions asked and answered and we'll get to as many of you as possible

58:34

But if we have time if anybody else would like to join them our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

58:40

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back to back after these messages with dr James R.

58:46

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Hi, I'm pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every

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Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m Eastern Time on Wlie radio www .wlie

01:07:01

540 a .m. Com we bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you

01:07:06

And we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions Our time will be lively useful and I assure you never dull

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Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs a pass

01:07:20

Welcome back. This is Chris Arns And if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with a little less than an hour to go is

01:07:27

Dr James R white of Alpha and Omega Ministries author of a number of books including what every

01:07:33

Christian needs to know about the Quran and Today we are discussing Dr James R white in his own words a detailed summary by the man himself of his actual understanding of mission to an

01:07:45

Affection toward the Muslim people if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com

01:07:51

Chris Arnson at gmail .com before I return to our discussion I have a few more announcements from sponsors of iron sharpens iron that I need to make

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Coming up in August from the 3rd to through the 5th Fellowship conference New England is being held at the

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Deering Center Community Church in Portland, Maine and the speakers include

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Pastor Don Curran who is the Eastern European coordinator with heart cry missionary society

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Which is an organization founded by Paul Washer Pastor Mac Tomlinson a dear friend of mine who is the pastor of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas And please pray that my brother

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John who lives ten minutes from pastor Mac eventually Acquiesces and agrees to meet with Pastor Mac Tomlinson.

01:08:39

My brother John is not a believer and Is battling a very serious illness, so I would hope that he agrees to meet with him very soon

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Another speaker is Pastor Jesse Barrington and who I've interviewed. He's the pastor of Grace Life Church in Dallas, Texas Sister Church of Grace Life Church in Lake City, Florida whose radio program airs iron sharpens iron every day

01:09:02

And Pastor Nate Pickowitz, who is my guest tomorrow on iron sharpens iron From 4 to 6 p .m.

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Eastern to discuss his book reviving New England Pastor Nate Pickowitz is pastor of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmont and ironworks,

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New Hampshire If you'd like more information on registering for the fellowship conference New England August 3rd through the 5th go through go to I should say fellowship conference

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New England calm Fellowship conference New England calm and then November 17th through the 18th in Quakertown, Pennsylvania The Quakertown conference on reform theology will be held featuring

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Kent Hughes Peter Jones Tom Nettles Dennis Cahill and I believe a close friend of dr.

01:09:44

White Scott Oliphant This will be held November 17th of the 18th at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown, Pennsylvania The theme is a line from Martin Luther's classic hymn a mighty fortress for still our ancient foe

01:09:59

That is the theme of the Quakertown conference on reform theology go to Alliance net org

01:10:05

Alliance net org click on events and click on Quakertown conference to register and then last but not least

01:10:13

The g3 conference returns to Atlanta, Georgia January 18th through the 20th 2018 and actually on January 17th, there's going to be a

01:10:25

Spanish version of the conference If you would like to register for this conference go to g3 conference calm

01:10:33

G3 conference calm and tonight at midnight The prices go up So register before midnight tonight to get the discount and you can find out more about that at g3 conference calm

01:10:45

The speakers include Paul Washer Steven Lawson Votie Balcom HB Charles jr. Tim Challis Josh Bice our guest today

01:10:52

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries Tom Askell Anthony Mathenia Michael Kruger David Miller Paul trip

01:10:58

Todd Friel Derek Thomas and Martha peace and If you register, please let them know that you heard about the g3 conference on iron sharpens iron radio

01:11:08

I'm so delighted that pastor Josh Bice has Done an advertising trade with me and it is putting me up in a hotel and Giving me an exhibitors booth there once again, and I am so excited about returning to Atlanta, Georgia For this wonderful conference and now

01:11:23

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01:12:52

James R. White and about the current controversy regarding his approach to ministering to evangelizing to Debating with and having dialogue with Muslims.

01:13:05

Hey, Chris. Yes You know,

01:13:13

I'm scared I have no idea why you're scared Can actually do multiple things on a computer at the same time and I was watching

01:13:22

Twitter and guess who's listening right now I have no idea Bethany House publishers

01:13:27

Wow They they specifically mentioned you and thank you for having me on but I mean like they're my publisher, you know

01:13:38

I'm scared now The only time I ever saw you scared was when

01:13:45

I walked up to a podium to announce you That's that's a life -changing experience right there, especially especially the first after the first debate

01:13:53

I was actually listen to that recently because I I the debate in London Last month with Peter D Williams on the

01:14:03

Marian dogmas You know, the first big debate we did was the same thing basically with with Jerry Matatek and So I got to listen to your introduction again, and it just it just brought back

01:14:17

You know now pleasant memories at the time, you know, almost coma inducing I can still remember seeing the video of that and Seeing you like you'd be busily writing things and all sudden you'd raise your head like what on earth is he

01:14:35

Yeah, you know I got used to it in the years and followed that but as you yourself pointed out look that that's you know

01:14:43

Back, then I was pretty much a straight -laced guy without a sense of humor. So We sort of fixed that since then a little bit

01:14:53

Well, one of the things that I wanted to address that you mentioned in your opening remarks that has caused such an uproar

01:14:59

Is that you said that you found? To that you had a kindred spirit with your

01:15:07

Islamic opponent there and then that dialogue or Islamic Friend if you will having a dialogue

01:15:16

This seems to have caused quite an uproar and I think it's because people have no earthly idea what the phrase kindred spirit even means

01:15:24

Or how it's commonly used. It doesn't mean that you agree with everything the person believes or does

01:15:31

It means that it could have varying applications depending upon the emphasis of what you were talking about But you made it clear that he added a kindred spirit with you on the other side of the chasm

01:15:44

Of difference that you had with him Well now again, you're doing that context thing allowing an entire sentence to stay under the sentence

01:15:52

I mean who does that anymore? This is a day of fake news We don't we don't need to worry about things like that But obviously that's exactly what

01:15:59

I was saying I said that I sensed in him a kindred spirit across the great chasm that divides us in theology and practice and so on so forth and I explain what that meant he is a

01:16:07

Consistent Muslim and I explained this to him We had lunch that day before we we did the dialogue and I and I said to him

01:16:14

I said You know one of the things that's always attracted to me to you is the fact that I would listen to your some of his call cookbuzz his his sermons to his own people and I Listened I remember exactly where I wasn't about on on the bike

01:16:29

We're listening to this where he was starting to get rather well like a preacher To his own people and here's the guy who's memorized the

01:16:37

Quran in Arabic himself But he he was basically saying those people are saying why do we teach our children to memorize a book in a language?

01:16:46

They do not even understand if we do not teach them to actually believe and practice the precepts that are in the book in the first place and I'm sitting here going.

01:16:57

This is a guy. That's like me amongst the Muslims. He is he's trying to be consistent He's trying to to say look we need we need to We can't be we can't fake this if we're gonna believe this then we need to actually live it

01:17:10

And that's what I was talking about I I know of at least one Reformed Baptist pastor who has criticized me strongly for having called him a

01:17:19

Muslim believer because for a Christian only Christians are believers I'm like, well, what language am

01:17:28

I supposed? What am I supposed to say? He's a Muslim I don't even know how to say that he believes

01:17:35

Islam without using the term believer I wasn't obviously saying that he and I believe the same things or anything like that.

01:17:43

We were so open and so so straightforward and Differences that we have that that how anyone could think this was and we specifically in the dialogue said this is not

01:17:56

One of those interfaith dialogues where you sit around you try to find common ground thing kumbaya We specifically said that you said you weren't sweeping things under the rug

01:18:05

Exactly. We weren't I mean if he's gonna start off in the mosque by saying Look, we

01:18:12

Muslims don't get the Trinity. Why'd you explain it to us? He wasn't saying hey, you know what? We've got our monotheism.

01:18:17

You've got your trinitarianism. Let's come up with something in the middle that never happened It's never going to happen

01:18:24

That's the kind of Thing that we both he and I both would go. Ooh, I just don't want anything to do with that And so for people to be presenting it that way such as the

01:18:35

American thinker article Presented as part of the the great grand Muslim conspiracy to make it all seem like we all believe the same thing

01:18:43

We were doing the exact opposite of that So it's just amazing to me

01:18:48

Fascist people have never listened to both most both dialogues and I'd encourage people look if you think

01:18:53

I did something wrong Then please before you criticize me at least listen to everything and try to listen to it with some modicum of fairness

01:19:02

Maybe just a little teeny tiny bit to actually listen to what we were saying

01:19:07

But that's where the problem is so many people in our day Have a horrible time trying to listen to a

01:19:13

Muslim speak without automatically associating them with and with with you know

01:19:18

People jumping out of vehicles and stabbing people in London. I was in London when that happened, by the way, right? I remember.

01:19:23

Yeah, I was on my way back a few weeks ago and We the problem is that the way it's reported is we call it

01:19:33

Anytime someone does something terrible they are a Muslim and it's that's the first thing is put out there and If we turn that around and every time a

01:19:42

Christian someone who was raised as a Christian or you know As long as you go to if you're Scottish or Irish Anybody who does anything horrible if we all start off with Christian something does something we'd have the exact same situation in Reverse and that's where the problem is coming is is that people see they hear that and these people are yelling a lot of Akbar and Obviously there is something to be discussed about where that violence is coming from what the motivations are and everything else but because of that people get the idea that well

01:20:15

Anybody who who will say I to a Muslim is Automatically the same type of person and it's so much easier as you were saying it takes so much less

01:20:23

Attention and brainpower basically to just throw them all into one pile and say they're all the same and we'll treat them all the same way

01:20:31

That's that's what we see going on and keep in mind folks that just because the word Spirit is in the phrase kindred spirit does not mean that is referring to the

01:20:39

Holy Spirit When you are having a Christian use the phrase it's just like if you were in a room with people who disagreed and you said let us in a spirit of Respect and cordiality have a discussion amongst those who disagree.

01:20:54

It's not talking about the Holy Spirit It's talking about the manner and the heart Is so much stuff every single day

01:21:07

I just saw a clip of a video that was that was done. It was just Amazing, but it had been out there for like two or three days

01:21:14

I can't keep up with all because I actually have other stuff. I'm doing a written debate right now I can't tell you all the details, but you're all gonna find it really fascinating It's it's it's actually a new thing that this this it's a startup group and and they contract people to do written debates

01:21:29

And we actually have to record All of our stuff so you'll be able to actually listen to it and read it and all the rest of stuff

01:21:35

I've got stuff. I've got to be doing I can't keep up with all so if someone actually said that saying kindred spirit that somehow

01:21:41

I was saying this that that means that the Muslims possess the Holy Spirit by the way They don't believe in the

01:21:46

Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit in Islam is is the angel Gabriel, right? And I think Hamsa Abdul Malik tried to imply that was

01:21:53

Muhammad During your yeah. Well, yeah in in John 14 and John 16

01:21:58

They they do believe most Muslims do believe if if they want to identify a

01:22:03

New Testament Text that I did it allegedly prophesied the coming of Muhammad It's generally John 14 and 16 and the irony is

01:22:11

I can pretty much point to almost Well to all of my all of my critics and say where were you a week after the attack on the

01:22:21

Benghazi? Consulate while there were riots taking place all around the world I was standing in the

01:22:26

East London mosque the largest mosque in Europe in front of a majority Muslim Audience debating whether Jesus or whether Muhammad is prophesied in the

01:22:36

Bible with a Muslim by the name of Zakir Hussein Where were you and another thing

01:22:42

I'd like to ask those who are pouncing on dr. White? Perhaps those of you who are more moderate in your speech, but are still very

01:22:50

Stern in your rebuke toward him. Where are you in renouncing the clear and obvious Slander that is going on the denial of God's command

01:23:03

Not to bear false witness against your neighbor. Where are you in regard to those folks?

01:23:09

It's in fact, by the way when I was telling a person I don't even know who the person was, but I was interacting with somebody on Facebook about That we cannot slander anyone.

01:23:20

We cannot bear false witness. Even if you are a witness Us in a trial

01:23:28

With a murderer involved and if you are a witness to the fact that this murderer Killed two people and you get up on the witness stand and you say

01:23:37

I saw him kill three people Even that is bearing false witness. You're not allowed because you're a

01:23:42

Christian to bear false witness against anybody, but It see it seems that this is an aspect that has gone completely

01:23:51

To the wayside and nobody is even rebuking those who are in the forefront of using the slanderous and clearly obviously slanderous and exaggerated tactics that they're using but for mostly folks again

01:24:06

The worst stuff is is coming from people who have a very vested interest in making sure

01:24:12

That it remains Muslims versus Christians Muslims versus Christians that we can't break down any of these walls

01:24:18

We can't they have a very vested interest in that one of the main critics over the past couple weeks sells a $99 preparedness kit for dealing with Islamic Terrorism and stuff like that.

01:24:32

So, you know, I Recognize that's where part of its coming from and those folks.

01:24:37

They don't bother me as much as my own fellow reformed believers Who will listen?

01:24:44

Well, they won't even listen Well when they listen to what I'm saying, they just they just put my words in the worst possible context and they can ignore things

01:24:51

That's that's the part that has left me just Shaking my head and going my goodness.

01:24:57

What what what's what's going on here? But you know I'm I'm headed. I'm very very busy the rest of the year

01:25:05

We're gonna be in I'm I'm not sure if you've heard about this, especially with party hardy Marty Luther I'm Going to be

01:25:13

I am actually going to be preaching in the castle church in Wittenberg in September at formal service

01:25:20

Yeah, I did hear that. I did hear that thought device Not according to Mariana block who's from Germany But But anyway, so I've got that and in before then debates in Durban South Africa in in in the back down South Africa We're going to try and do some things in London again

01:25:48

So many opportunities of demonstrating that there's been no compromise I anybody can go online right now and watch two debates that I've done since the after Cotty dialogues one in one in London one in South Africa with Muslims and they will hear a clear

01:26:07

Presentation of the gospel. So hey, you said you got all these questions. We're never get to him if you don't start reading them Yes, and I will start reading them.

01:26:14

I just said a couple of my own to quickly Give and then I will let all the listeners have the the final moments of the show

01:26:22

And by the way, I want to let our listeners know that I have arranged a lot of debates with dr. White Dr.

01:26:28

White is the only person I have ever Seen in a debate and this was specifically in regard to one of our debates with a

01:26:36

Muslim in Queens, New York not not Shams Ali, but the other one and then the Imam escapes my memory right now

01:26:44

But the only time I've ever seen One of your debating opponents say

01:26:49

I'm sorry. Can I stop now? I'd really rather have somebody in the audience who's Muslim take my place.

01:26:55

I've never seen And The only thing that came close is that David Silverman was trying to call to an end of the debate on atheism in Amityville if you recall he wanted to bring it to an early conclusion, but Anyway, the one of the a couple of the debates that I a couple of debates a couple of the questions

01:27:15

I had for my my own mind is that I have always

01:27:21

Since becoming a born -again believer and especially since learning from you The way that you determine whether somebody is being faithful and consistently

01:27:34

Logical or logically consistent with the religion that they claim to adhere to is to look at the actual documents produced by that religion that list

01:27:47

Beliefs that are required of you in order to be a member in that religion and I'll give you an example

01:27:53

I constantly in fact, I just like a week ago heard from a Roman Catholic who said to me

01:28:00

By the way, Chris, he must have heard about what I did as far as the debates or something And he said by the way,

01:28:06

Chris, I'm a Roman Catholic and I do not believe my works in any way Enabled me to get to heaven and I said to him.

01:28:15

Well, you're in opposition to your own church Which has an anathema against you for even saying that because the

01:28:22

Council of Trent clearly reveals that works our works are a crucial aspect of meriting eternal life of course that only grace they would say enables those works to even exist, but So in other words,

01:28:40

I point Roman Catholics to the Council of Trent as far as dogma even the even the

01:28:46

Catholic catechism since Vatican II is Compromised with things that are not dogmatic and much more liberal than Trent would ever allow

01:28:55

But but there seems to be something different going on here according to you with Islam I have to confess that I was among those

01:29:04

That believed true Islam can only be Islam that involves violence against non -muslims or Muslims believed to be heretical

01:29:14

I have Believed that and I've only started to Question that after hearing you go into further depth on this issue if you could just comment on that well, look the reality is that My my thesis and it's what

01:29:32

I've been saying for a long long time is I've I've read the Quran a number of times I've read a number of scholarly works on on the

01:29:39

Quran its background its history its construction. It's its writing, etc etc, and I've also read a major portion of the hadith which forms the context in which the because the

01:29:51

Quran is interpreted and My biggest concern I've expressed this many many times over the years is that as I see the different forms of Islam and conflict one another and The vast majority of people killed by Islamic violence in the world are fellow

01:30:07

Muslims that that is a fact that I don't think anyone actually disputes my

01:30:13

Concern is that I do not see a consistency in those original sources that will allow one side to Fundamentally vanquish the other and as long as there are people who find within those sources a means of expressing their sinful desires

01:30:30

We're going to have a major serious problem. And the only solution to that from the Christian perspective is

01:30:36

The gospel of Jesus Christ, so there there you go and that and by the way, I don't say that in in a flippant manner that's what makes me so different than the

01:30:46

American thinker article author and people like that because The gospel isn't the answer for them.

01:30:52

That's you know, they might be a nice thing to be Oh, that's that that's nice but for them the primary thing is

01:30:58

Politics politics politics and for me the primary thing is gospel gospel gospel. You change hearts

01:31:03

You change minds with the politics can't do that. The gospel can that's what we have to be focused upon so That's that's really where that comes from there

01:31:12

You can make a very strong argument from the example of Muhammad In fact, it's fascinating some of the best programs

01:31:19

I've done the dividing line for years were programs where I went through Yasir Qadhi's stuff.

01:31:25

This is years ago. This is before we we just started having any Communication with one another at all, but I went through lectures by Yasir Qadhi where he was identifying as Shirk some of the excessive veneration of Muhammad that is part and parcel of certain elements of certain

01:31:44

Islamic groups and I point out, you know why this happens this happens because Theologically you have a holy

01:31:52

God you have the reality of hell There's more pictures of what hell looks like in Islamic literature than and Dante ever dreamed of But you you've had the mediator taken away.

01:32:03

You don't have a mediator anymore. So you've got a holy God You've got his laws broken and you've got the reality of hell, but you don't have a mediator anymore and so of necessity there has been this exaltation over time of Muhammad and Once you set him up as the great example and Yasir Qadhi does this he does set up Muhammad as the example

01:32:25

But he recognizes well, there have to be limitations or you get into Shirk and so other well The problem is the sources don't provide you with a consistent way of doing that and when you set him up this way

01:32:35

Hey, it's easy to point out his military campaigns and the violence that he used to be against Various of the of the

01:32:42

Jewish tribes and and all the rest of this kind of stuff It's very easy to do that. And so the real question about what you asked is true

01:32:51

Islam That that's that's what I say and in fact Robert Spencer and I I wasn't planning on it had less than 24 hours notice of it but Robert Spencer and I Discussed this issue and he admitted right up front.

01:33:02

There is no true Islam, but the majority of the Jury the schools of jurisprudence say this this and this and it can be interpreted in this way well, they can be interpreted in other ways too, but Yeah, look, there's all sorts of Muslims who would say that the the world of war must be submitted to the world that is in submission to a law and Therefore they will say you can use military force to do that and I have said for a long long time well, the fundamental differences between us is

01:33:36

We believe that someday every knee will bow and every tongue will confess but the difference between us is the mechanism by which this takes place and It's not by military conquest in the

01:33:47

Christian faith it's not by that type of thing right now the Kingdom of God is is established by the work of the

01:33:53

Holy Spirit drawing people into Confession of the Lordship of Jesus Christ and when God wraps it all up every knee will bow

01:34:00

But at that time for some it will be in Condemnation and it's submission to the judgment of God that is upon them that will separate them from God for eternity

01:34:09

That's different than the idea that you have in Islam in the mechanism that will be used to bring about The final destruction of anyone who would stand against Islam both with both religions believe that someday

01:34:23

Their ultimate statement will be established worldwide whether it's the Shahada for Islam Or the statement that Jesus is

01:34:31

Lord for Christians It's the mechanism that is completely different and we must understand that amongst

01:34:37

Muslims there are differences as to what the mechanisms are to be how they are to be established when they can be established if we

01:34:46

Just simply say I don't care about all that. I'm not going to make proper distinctions Then we're back in the same situation that other people look how many

01:34:53

I can't tell you how many times I've had Muslims try to hold me accountable for what Pope Francis said and I know many

01:35:00

Roman Catholics that don't want to be held accountable for what Pope Francis says So I have to be able to say hey guys look you can't hold me accountable for Pope Francis Here's why historically biblically so on so forth.

01:35:12

And if they say hey, don't hold me accountable for what Baghdadi said Don't hold me accountable for what?

01:35:19

Al Qaeda says or anything else. Here's what I believe. Here's my understanding I have to go with that if I want to reach the person if I want to reach the person and that's where the difference is

01:35:29

Most of my critics aren't concerned about reaching the person they are concerned about making sure that that person remains demonized in the eyes of everybody

01:35:36

Else we're going to one final break and it will just be one commercial But before we go to the break, let's make it clear. You do not believe that any

01:35:43

Muslim in fact, no one of any religion not even a Baptist is going to faith without genuine repentance and Faith in Jesus Christ and without the covering of his blood from Calvary's Cross You do not believe that there is any

01:36:01

Avenue, which a Muslim is going to enter heaven without repenting of any falsehood in his religion and Clinging to his only hope for salvation the cross of Christ.

01:36:13

Am I right? that's exactly what I said in the mosque sitting next to Yasir Qadhi and Despite Bernie Sanders detestation of that and wanting to kick us all out of the country for that.

01:36:23

That is the Christian message and My point is that if I'm going to make that that that statement to a

01:36:31

Muslim I need to lay the foundation for them to be able to understand why that is because they have so many misconceptions of the

01:36:38

Foundational issues around it. That's the issue Alright, we're going to our final break and we'll be right back

01:36:43

God willing right after these messages. So do not go away Iron sharpens iron radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars a year -round

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01:38:07

Harvey Cedars where Christ finds people and changes lives Welcome back.

01:38:15

This is Chris Arnsin and now we will continue our discussion with dr James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and take some of our listener questions as many as we can

01:38:24

We have Scott in Bryan, Ohio Who says I am unsure of how to phrase this but we know it is true that not all

01:38:34

Muslims advocate radical jihad violence or terrorism such as Isis But do all

01:38:40

Muslims want Sharia law that would coerce all to submit to its demands

01:38:47

Well again, there's all sorts different forms of Sharia law to that's the other part I mean the the volumes have been written on this the multi -volume set

01:38:56

They've been written just on the definition of Sharia. It's sort of like there's one definition of God's law for Christians, right?

01:39:03

Okay, not really that means there's not one Sharia, but yes the majority of the schools of jurisprudence within Islam Establish when you have an

01:39:15

Islamic state That law is to be over everybody except for the people of the book who are given a special status of dhimmis

01:39:26

Where they can maintain their own own beliefs and they do not have to go to war Therefore they have to pay a special tax to support the people that that do go to war for them

01:39:35

But no, it's it's a it's a very theocratic system So it's very similar to what you would have under ancient

01:39:44

Israel except expanded across the world So no, if someone wants to try to establish an

01:39:51

Islamic state Then that's not a situation. Look at the Middle East.

01:39:57

That's not a situation. That's going to lead to any type of Expansion of religious rights for other groups.

01:40:05

That's the that's the conflict that I point out to so many of my Muslim friends They enjoy the freedom of the

01:40:11

West But they have they ever thought about the fact that if their religion, of course

01:40:16

They do think about this and I just try to press them to think about some more if their religion in its most popular

01:40:22

Forms were to become predominant. They wouldn't have the religious freedoms that they themselves cherish so much and If you look at history

01:40:32

When when certain Islamic cultures did reach high levels of art and science and and and things like that Generally what brought about their downfall was the attack of this other form of Islam that cannot allow for that kind of diverse expression and freedom of expression and things like that You look at those early years and don't have time to get it right now because I'm taking too long here

01:40:56

But look at the early years and you'll see that there was not the kind of monolithic Perspective that is now being expressed and it's the it's the the kind of Salafi Wahhabi Islam that destroyed the highest expressions of Islam in this in history itself

01:41:16

Well Scott you have won a free copy of what every Christian needs to know about the Quran Compliments of Bethany house publishers and Baker books and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible book services

01:41:27

CV BBS comm we'll be shipping that out to you. We need your full mailing address.

01:41:33

Thank you for the question and We have a question from Jenny in Ben Salem, Pennsylvania Why is it important that we learn about what other people believe in order to give them the gospel message?

01:41:47

in fact There has been a saying that you don't learn counterfeit money

01:41:55

By studying counterfeit money you learn counterfeit money by studying the real money and therefore you don't really need to know about what the enemy

01:42:02

Believes you just need to know the Bible. Why do you respond to that? Well, first of all, I've used that illustration many many times because I have often said

01:42:09

I would rather take five people with me to Salt Lake City who know the gospel real well than 50 people that can rip and shred

01:42:14

Joseph Smith But have nothing to give in his in his place So I do believe that it's far more important on a scale of things

01:42:21

To know the Christian faith real well and to be able to express it with clarity than know anything else But if you're gonna start a church in Salt Lake City or even better Kanab, Utah Then you need to know

01:42:33

Mormonism because that's the language they speak That's the culture in which you're going to be living and ministering and if you want to reach out to the

01:42:40

Muslim people Then you need to understand what they believe what they're experiencing so that you can be able to communicate with them

01:42:46

So it's a matter of communication with all these people. There's there are language barriers they they interpret certain words that we use in a different way than we do and So since we're the ones trying to do the reaching out since we're the ones

01:42:58

Wanted to extend that hand then we're the ones that have to make the effort to Understand what they believe and be able to communicate with them in the most effective fashion

01:43:08

So it isn't a matter of of in either or situation it is a matter of first and foremost

01:43:15

We must know the truth The vast majority of my time is spent on Christian theology not Islamic theology

01:43:21

But if you are going to if you have a heart to speak to the Muslim people, let me tell you something

01:43:27

I can tell you from my own experience When I get into a cab and I've got a

01:43:32

Muslim cabbie and I start narrating Hadith to the cabbie That opens up a door that nothing that no four spiritual laws is ever gonna

01:43:43

That's right Thank You Jenny. Sorry, we don't have time to ask your other questions We just have too many people

01:43:48

And you have also won a free copy of what every Christian needs to know about the

01:43:54

Quran Compliments of Bethany house publishers and Baker books and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service Who is shipping it out to you free of charge make sure we have your mailing address

01:44:04

And by the way, I want to make it clear that Benny Jenny is on your side here I didn't want to give the false impression because of her question that she was opposed to what you were doing

01:44:14

We have Tom in West Islip, Long Island, New York Always enjoy listening to your esteemed guest.

01:44:21

Dr. White I've heard that the Islamic faith states that a land conquered by Muslims will always be considered such even if Reconquered by the opposing army

01:44:31

This was stated by Al Qaeda after one of the multitude of bombings in Spain I would like to understand if such is backed up by the

01:44:39

Quran and if so Would that mean that these lands will always be in a perpetual state of war until given over to Islamic rule once again?

01:44:49

Thanks for the opportunity to present the question Chris. Love your show. That's Tom in West Islip, New York Well, yeah,

01:44:55

Tom's correct, I mean there it's I don't think it's a Quranic concept I think it's it developed at a later point in time

01:45:01

But there's no question that if a land is considered to be Islamic then it's considered to always be

01:45:08

Islamic and But but the idea is again the whole concept of Islam is that if Sharia is

01:45:17

God's law Then it has to be spread across the world because that's the only way to please

01:45:23

God and so the the the Islamic eschatology is all focused upon the eventual

01:45:29

Submission of all men to Allah. That's the only way that men can ever have true. Peace is submission to God That's the whole idea.

01:45:37

And so does that happen through? violent subjugation like Isis or does that happen through rational argumentation

01:45:46

That's what's not Consistent there are Muslims who believe one and there are Muslims who believe the other and there look let's also remember

01:45:53

We haven't you mentioned this There's also a bunch of people that are Muslim because that's what you are when you live in the land

01:45:59

They're in and they don't really have a vested interest in any of it They just want to live their lives and they're not really overly committed to anything

01:46:07

It's just all they've ever known and when it's all you ever known if we want to reach them That's what missionaries are called if you want to reach them that we still need to understand

01:46:15

How to communicate with these folks even that even if they may not have a tremendous amount of fervor for any of these kinds of things

01:46:22

Well, thanks Tom. You've also won a free copy of what every Christian needs to know about the

01:46:28

Quran Please give us your full mailing address. So Cumberland Valley Bible book service CV bbs .com

01:46:34

She can ship that out to you at no charge to you or to us at iron sharpens iron and we thank

01:46:39

Bethany house Publishers once again and Baker books for providing us with the copies of this book

01:46:45

We have Joe in Slovenia Who says thanks for having dr.

01:46:51

White on today. I've purposely not exposed myself to Wait a minute it is he trying to remain anonymous here.

01:47:00

He didn't say that in the beginning of his question here I better pass on just enter question there

01:47:06

Sorry Joe, I'll have to look at that a little later. We have Bruce in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Let's see here

01:47:16

Bruce and I have to enlarge the font on Bruce's email because it's microscopic and I am going blind

01:47:24

Bruce says I know a missionary that travels frequently under the Pseudonym of a businessman in Muslim countries

01:47:32

He goes to mosques and uses only the Quran in the beginning discussion to witness to Muslims about the three

01:47:39

Corbin of Allah and the final one of Issa Almusi and I don't know if I've pronounced that correctly can one use of the

01:47:49

Quran to witness about Christ on the cross And for example The first Corbin was in the

01:47:56

Garden of Eden with the sacrifice of an animal and the skin coverings for sin The second being the near sacrifice of Abraham of Isaac with the ram being provided The third mentions

01:48:06

Issa Jesus Almusi being sacrificed in the cross and having a straight path to paradise

01:48:12

This does seem to be a contradiction in some ways since Muslims teach that Jesus fainted on the cross and did not die

01:48:19

But revived and went on to live and that's Bruce in Pittsburgh well,

01:48:24

Bruce Actually, only the Achaemenid Muslims believe in that the vast majority of Muslims not believe

01:48:30

Jesus was crucified at all It's at least would have been Miriam It's a messiah is probably trying to say that it's the rather unusual name for Jesus that is found in in the

01:48:39

Quran So I know I I do not suggest utilization of the

01:48:44

Quran For witnessing to Muslims for a number of reasons But primarily because the Jesus of the

01:48:50

Quran is not the Jesus of the Bible. Sure. You can you know, there's there's the one section I believe in surah 5 about Jesus and you can look at him being the the the word of Allah and maybe make some connections there, but You know

01:49:05

I I just think the Word of God is powerful and it has its effect in people's hearts and the heart of the elect and so I I think it's getting to the

01:49:14

Word of God and You know having a knowledge of the Quran. I think it's very bright, you know,

01:49:20

I make Quranic arguments I think one of my strongest Quranic arguments is based out of surah 5 And the chain of authority that it's that's established there from Moses to Jesus to Muhammad and demonstrating that That that chain simply is untenable

01:49:34

I I think that there are there's reasons for reading the Quran understanding the Quran making

01:49:39

Quranic arguments But not using the Quran as a positive stepping stone Toward a biblical presentation.

01:49:46

I know there are some that do that. I'm not I'm not saying I think that's so wrong that you know God can never use it.

01:49:52

I just I just don't personally think that's the best way to go at all Well, thank you Bruce.

01:49:57

You have also won a free copy of what every Christian needs to know about the Quran so, please make sure we have your full mailing address and You'll be receiving that god -willing within a week from Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service and thanks to Bethany house publishers and Baker books

01:50:11

We have Paul in Sarasota, Florida Who says I was fortunate to be in Memphis on a business trip and able to attend the discussion between James and Yasser it was abundantly clear from the beginning when

01:50:24

James talked about the upcoming dialogue that the intent was not to have a

01:50:30

Let's hold hands discussion But to provide an opportunity for two groups with very different perspectives to get a better understanding of each other

01:50:39

Without the vitriol which exists in our society today That was exactly what

01:50:44

I experienced that evening both James and Yasser were very clear during the discussion about their

01:50:50

Differences and that would be clear to anybody who actually takes the time to view the video that is freely available on YouTube Any other representation of what happened is a blatant lie and Paul's question is most of the online commentary

01:51:05

I've seen as a result of this attack on you has included calls from both groups to each other to repent

01:51:10

I don't find that very useful What would you suggest as a response for folks who've actually done their homework and know the truth and how to respond to these lies?

01:51:21

And not in a social media forum, but in personal discussion Well, I appreciate the testimony and the reality of what did take place those that were there on both sides

01:51:33

Found both evenings to be extremely useful They did not find them to be Matters of compromise and we were very much open about that and and as he himself said it's it's it's just simply a lie

01:51:44

To say anything else, but that's that's what's being spread around out there I wish I had the answer as to how to respond to this.

01:51:51

I'm trying to do the best I can in in remaining balanced It's not easy waking up every morning and wondering what new lies have been told about you

01:51:59

It's not easy doing 30 years of consistent ministry and then having people, you know, just simply throw that out

01:52:05

Without even doing homework without even fairly analyzing or looking at what you've done Yeah, it's hurtful.

01:52:12

There's no question about it, but And I'm not sure that I've handled it perfectly right either

01:52:18

But if someone you know walks up to me and and says, you know I just can't believe you've compromised on Islam.

01:52:25

All I can say is can you please give me an example and I know That they say well, you know, you you you let a

01:52:31

Muslim stand in a church and spread lies I said well, actually we met in a church and a mosque

01:52:37

It was a ticketed event everybody that came there wanted to hear a dialogue between a mom and a Christian That's exactly what they heard and there was no compromise ever.

01:52:45

Did you actually even watch them? I don't know what else to do in a situation like that. I really don't

01:52:51

But at the same time as hurtful as it's been I also have received some tremendously encouraging notes and and and people overseas who've been greatly encouraged and they're reaching out to Muslims and and So I you know,

01:53:05

God's in control every single time something like this Well, nothing like this has ever really happened in the past but something of a of a similar nature has happened the past God's used it to his honor and glory.

01:53:15

So I just pray he's going to do that again Have doors been slammed in my face as a result of this would be a lot of places

01:53:21

I'm not to be able to go in the future because of this. Yeah 20 years from now. I'll be answering questions about this

01:53:27

There's no question about it lies live forever on the internet They live forever on the internet and I will have to direct people to this program or to the videos

01:53:35

I've done for the next for the next two decades. There's there's no question about it, but will there be a greater purpose?

01:53:42

Well, I've I know of at least one guy that I I personally think is the future of this this one fellow and people like him

01:53:49

But this fellow especially is the future of Christian apologetics. Oh, thank you. Thank you James.

01:53:55

I'm humbled by your comment This is our last guest appearance of dr.

01:54:10

James our way but You know, he he he was encouraged

01:54:17

By by seeing how I've responded as an encouraged and in his is going forward in that area

01:54:22

So if that's hey if I've got to take this stuff for someone else to have that opportunity in the future great

01:54:28

That's wonderful. That's That's fine Well, we'll do we'll do what's right because you got to have the right purposes and we're just trying to do the right thing for The right purposes.

01:54:38

Can you tell us who this person is? No, of course not. Okay Seriously Seriously, I I couldn't for a number of reasons one of which is he has access to Muslim countries

01:54:48

Okay, and so no I could okay And by the way, Paul since you are a first -time

01:54:54

Questioner and that goes for anybody else who wrote an email today and I think a couple of you perhaps a few of you were first -time questioners

01:55:02

You're not only going to be receiving what every Christian needs to know about the Quran But you're also receiving a brand new

01:55:08

New American Standard Bible compliments of the publishers of the NASB And we thank them for renewing their contract to sponsor iron sharpens iron radio

01:55:20

Please give us your full mailing address in Sarasota, Florida So Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service can ship that out to you a compliments of Bethany house publishers and Baker books and after reviewing

01:55:33

Joe in Slovenia's question. I realized he was not trying to keep himself safe in some way

01:55:41

I misread or misunderstood what he was saying in the beginning. So let me read you Joe in Slovenia's a

01:55:48

Question which I also have to enlarge because I'm going blind Dear brother Chris.

01:55:53

Thanks for having dr. White today I've purposely not exposed myself to any of the controversies surrounding his recent public dialogue because I didn't want to hear secondhand

01:56:03

Accusations it is so good to get to hear of these details first from you and dr.

01:56:09

White himself Thank you for making that possible. I've never had a conversation with a

01:56:14

Muslim because I don't know any Personally, I've never been in a situation where I was conversing with one if that ever happened.

01:56:23

What should I? Intentionally say and what should I intentionally not say at a first casual encounter?

01:56:31

What should I do and not do to foster a second third fourth and so on conversation to?

01:56:37

intentionally explain Christianity, thank you for taking my question and thanks for being so Christlike in your pursuit of sharing the gospel with Muslims That's Joe in Slovenia I think

01:56:49

I was just in the Czech Republic and we had some folks visiting as I was teaching there from Slovenia.

01:56:55

So it was beautiful country wonderful wonderful people and a very difficult language to understand

01:57:02

I assure you but Look the wonderful thing about about speaking with Muslims is the vast majority of them do want to talk to you and they they want to talk to you about Jesus, for example, they they believe that they believe in Jesus and If you can do anything if you've got a situation where it looks like, you know

01:57:20

It's a new neighbor somebody at school that you're gonna have further conversations with then what you want to do is you want to?

01:57:27

Find some way of getting them to read the Gospels to read any of the Gospels Mark is where I would start and I don't even jump to John a lot of them have heard negative things about John start with Mark because the vast majority of Muslims have never read any portion of the

01:57:44

Bible at all and To just simply be introduced to the Jesus of Scripture is the greatest thing you can do

01:57:51

Get them to read the Word of God and if you've got to read something from them in In exchange fine it you know

01:57:58

One of the things that's really sad to me is there's a bunch of Christians have demonstrated They just don't believe that Jesus can keep his sheep

01:58:04

They really really believe that the gospel is not nearly as powerful as falsehood because well, we just we can't we can't do it

01:58:10

All we can't we couldn't do it like that. You couldn't get into a conversation You might hear falsehood and if you know the truth, you'll recognize the falsehood

01:58:15

Christ knows his own devil is a the sheep every single one of them's gonna be saved and So if you can get them to to read

01:58:24

From the Gospels and then be prepared to discuss some of the objections They may have objections to the

01:58:30

Synoptic Gospels and alleged contradictions and stuff like that But if you can just get them to hear about the

01:58:35

Jesus of the New Testament That is the single most important thing you do aside from Investing yourself in them have them over to dinner demonstrate that you're a human being that cares about them

01:58:46

Wants to know about their life and model Jesus Christ for them It's the greatest thing you can possibly and that's exactly what happened with the conversion of Rosaria Butterfield Who you mentioned earlier the leftist lesbian professor who came to Christ the result of this kind of kindness?

01:59:01

And we are out of time Joe in London, England. We cannot ask your question today

01:59:06

But perhaps dr. White when he returns God willing if that happens, we hope it does you can ask the question then

01:59:13

Thank You Joan Slovenia for providing an American address where we will ship this book to you to your daughter

01:59:19

What every Christian needs to know about the Quran if you want to learn more about dr James R.

01:59:25

White and the dividing line broadcast and all the books he's written and all the debates He's participated in go to a o m.

01:59:31

I n org a o m. I n org. Thank you. Dr. White I really hope that you

01:59:37

Return to Iron Trip and Zion radio soon, and if you wouldn't mind holding on before we go off the air Thank you, sir

01:59:43

And I want to thank everybody who listened and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ Is a far greater