Cultish: Interview w/ Warren Jeffs' 65th Wife (Part 2)

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Inside the Mind of Manson: Part 3

00:00

All right, welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to Cultish Entering the Kingdom of the Cults. My name is Jeremiah Roberts.

00:05

I'm one of the co -hosts here with always a super sleuth Andrew, the super sleuth of the show. That video or that clip you just heard is a clip of Warren Jeffs.

00:17

That's a confession that he made while in prison, where he kind of had his breaking moment and made some very intriguing confessions.

00:27

And we have someone with us today. If you guys haven't listened to the first part of our discussion, definitely check that out.

00:32

But we are here with Brielle Decker. And you are here this once again. And thank you for being with us.

00:39

Thank you. Yes. So just for those in case, you're just coming into this, you grew up in the as we stated in the first episode, you grew up in the

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FLDS. And you were you're married to Warren Jeffs at the age of 18. And as you talked in the last episode, you got sealed at 18.

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But then things came up, you're trying to, things were coming up, and you're having red flags, keeping your distance.

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And then you were trying to figure things out, because something just wasn't right. And at the same time,

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Warren Jeffs became became a fugitive. What you just heard was when he got arrested.

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Now he's in federal prison making that confession. So yeah, I want to hand the mic back to you.

01:24

But just off of that clip right there, and this, we can expand on this later on the episode, like when you heard that, what was your initial thoughts?

01:34

Just listening to that audio here, drawing up with that, like what came to mind when you heard that?

01:42

I had, I was thinking about like, part of his confession that I don't usually publicize,

01:49

I heard about like later from somebody that is now following William E.

01:55

Jessup. So that's my thoughts. It's about his wife and stuff.

02:01

So yeah, what was supposed to happen with all of his wives and you know, but I, when

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I found out about it, you know, and of course, I don't believe in a man leading people anymore.

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But when I heard from one of his followers, what the rest of the message was,

02:19

I was actually planning my wedding with my husband that I have now. So I wouldn't have cared anyway, but I'm going through with what

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I already got planned. Yeah. And this time, at least you know what an actual wedding is this time versus in contrast.

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So definitely night and day there for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I will get into that.

02:41

Um, so, um, we, we went into a lot of doctrine last time.

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Uh, and I wanted to build on like the differences between the, the

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Mormon, you know, like the LDS, the regular LDS. And I know we talked about the, when it split with the polygamy and how, well,

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I didn't actually go into where their leader Wilford Woodruff, who they, um, voted for actually signed the manifesto, which is a document in their, in their stuff that isn't in our stuff, but I mean,

03:22

FLDS stuff, um, that document, that document was signed and actually was agreed upon because of a scripture that said you should obey the laws of the land.

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So they actually still believe in polygamy. They just believe it's afterlife because they have to obey the laws of the land while they're here.

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They don't all know that most of them don't know that, um, they aren't taught their own doctrine, but anyway, so like, um,

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Warren Jeffs was definitely more extreme in all of his interpretations than the

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LDS church are. And he followed what, what Warren, what

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Joseph Smith actually wrote to a T, but also really extreme interpretations of it.

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I mean, like, for example, like, um, he actually taught in the elite groups that, um, if you break a commandment, then you're guilty of the whole, which is a scripture in the doctrine of covenants.

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So if you break one commandment in Warren Jeffs' eyes, you're guilty of breaking all of the commandments.

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And that is a Joseph Smith teaching, but nobody else like intensifies on things like that because it actually makes it too hard.

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Um, and he also taught like, if you, if you sin again, then all your former sins return upon you, which is another doctrine that Joseph Smith taught.

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Um, it was, he, he, he kind of put his own interpretations on everything that Joseph Smith did.

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And of course, a lot of it was written like that, but it's like a manipulation also to say, this is how it's interpreted.

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Um, he talked about how Joseph Smith had in the elite groups and not everybody knows it, but, um, he told in a public setting, he talked about how

05:26

Joseph Smith had underage brides. And how, that's how he put it into the doctrine, like pedophilia in the doctrine.

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He said, it's, you know, of course he already had established a point in marriage. So only those that were told to marry, um, were appointed to marry an underage bride would get to, or would have to, you know?

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Um, but so not everybody would be commanded to do that, but it was something that was going to a commandment at some, for some people.

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And since he's the prophet, he can go ahead and self -appoint which underage people could or couldn't get married or who they get married to in many cases himself.

06:05

Yes. And also since he's the prophet and he talked about it in a doctrine setting, like, because he follows the doctrine, supposedly the best of anybody, you know, to the

06:16

T, the letter, the fullness of the gospel, you know, they're going to make sure they make it into heaven, you know, supposedly they want to do everything that's commanded everything.

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They don't change doctrine ever. Like they don't update into a good position, you know, like the

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LDS church put, like, for example, the racism, they, um, updated the doctrine to say now is the time that we can accept everybody.

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Um, they took that as a change. Like it says that a certain time in their scriptures at a certain time, and it's not in that timeframe yet.

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So they said that was a, an update. That was a change of what was there previous instead of a good thing.

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And so, um, when they update, they update usually with something that's not been talked about and they only do that.

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So like he updates to put pedophilia, like talk about pedophilia, what the danger in that is, is that, um, the next leader after him has to do that, has to also accept that doctrine.

07:28

Right. Yeah. So, um, and just real quick in the same way that, you know, these are only men carrying out evil desires at the end of the day and using

07:37

God to do it. Uh, evil, horrific, perverted desires. And, but now it's like, well, in the same way that Joseph Warren is, is twisting

07:49

Joseph sayings and Joseph history, even though it's just a documented fact that that is something that Joseph Smith practiced and tried to hide it from Emma.

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But there'll be an aspect too, of whoever does end up succeeding Warren Jeffs, where they may take their own twist to their ideology.

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Because at the end of the day, people's cult identity is reinforced that you have to listen to whoever's

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God prophet is on whoever the current prophet is. And if Warren Jeff says, this is the person, however, that works, they're going to have to listen to them.

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And that's, there's the, I think there's a possibility where they could distort that in the future. Well, um, like basically, so like I was describing how that was the people that were left in short

08:34

Creek that hadn't been called the people in the middle and the people that were elite, when he dies, we already know that it's going to be

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God who chooses the people don't have any say. Right. And people in the other groups that are in the middle or in the, they're not going to listen to anybody that's not elite.

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And so elite, that's how the elite people are the ones that are taught that, that high of doctrine.

08:59

Right. So yeah, there's a really, really high chance that everybody who follows

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Warren Jeffs will believe in pedophilia. Like it is a commandment from God.

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Right. Just like, it's kind of scary because he scattered everybody too. So like there are branches, like if you've heard the

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LeBaron branch, um, the ones that believed in blood atoma and actually, um, killed other prophets and stuff that were of other groups in the past years ago.

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Um, that group was kind of like everybody that is left that even has a librarian last name claims to be not of that group.

09:43

You know, nobody wants because they were never scattered and stuff. The idea that Warren Jeffs is scattering.

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Everybody is similar to the way that polygamy was established. Like he, you know, it went into hiding and then it came back out in the open.

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So we may find groups of people that believe in Warren Jeffs for a long time and believe that Joseph Smith did have underage brides and that he had relationships with them and that, you know, all of that stuff has to be to the extreme to actually have kids, which

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Warren Jeffs did. He did have, uh, like a lot of kids with underage brides, but, but the youngest one

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I know of is, was like 14. And, um,

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I knew the child, uh, you know, I, yeah. So, um, he hides the, the people like that really deep, thick in the elite groups.

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Sometimes even people that have been to Texas and stuff, didn't see the underage brides, but most of the people eventually have to qualify to be given those trainings.

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So what he does is like, like he did with the young boys, get them, you know, cause their competition, he wanted the wives.

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So he'd send them away. He started doing that with parents. So he only had children to train.

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He'd send away the parents, even if they didn't do anything wrong, he'd just send them away. And so that he had more years to work with their brain and convince them and force them and trap them and, you know, anything he would do anything to create what he envisioned.

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So the members of this elite group that has the knowledge of these, these trainings that, that only they get, where, where are they now?

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Are they still in Texas? No, Texas took the compound and called it a criminal organization.

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And, um, they had one in South Dakota. I think they still have, they had one in Colorado.

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Um, I know they have more, I've heard of several places, but I'm not there. So I can't like verify.

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And it's the same thing. Like Warren Jeffs is in prison. And when

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I was there, he was communicating from prison a lot. Um, there's a rumor going around that he doesn't talk to anybody because he doesn't talk to people that are in short

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Creek, you know? And so we would have to have somebody from the elite group escape to know if he was still communicating with them, but he isn't, he's never been communicating with people in short

12:17

Creek very much. Right. Yeah. Let me ask you this. And this is just a more general question about the

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FLDS before we jumped back into the story and the timeline of Warren Jeffs arrest and getting to that point at the audio here at the beginning of the episode.

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But one thing I watched, it was the pro it was the documentary, just kind of like a refresher.

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It was prophets of prey. Yeah. And one thing that fascinated me towards the end of the documentary, they talk about when they did the raid in Texas and there are a couple of points of real tension where they're taking, the judge didn't realize how many children were actually on site when they said, just get them away.

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And then there are a couple of particular moments. It might've been the temple or one of the other places where there was somewhat of a tension standoff where they kind of all gathered around and it seemed like there might be some sort of tension or standoff.

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And I don't remember the exact details, but the person said that there's this sort of undying allegiance they have to Warren Jeffs, where given the fact that they're doing something, which is again, which it's pedophilia and violation of children on an unprecedented scale under the name, using the name of God, that if something happened to where say the feds got involved now and Warren Jeff gave a command to fight until the death, if that, if a command gave out like that, they would be willing, they would just do it.

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Cause that's kind of, there's been situation before like that, like with Waco, Texas, where unfortunately there was a showdown that happened and that didn't end well.

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So there was at least a fear that at least someone in the documentary talked about that. And again, I'm just paraphrasing it, but do you see that at all, as far as that sort of unquestioned allegiance or something that could happen down the road, as far as,

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I mean, there's been conflicts before the LDS church between the church and the state. I do see that they could definitely go that route.

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Like if Warren Jeffs just like really broke, you know, he could definitely command something like that.

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But I also think that he's more into like, we talked about the slow, painful joy that he somehow feels from taking away hope slowly.

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So he really fights for that more. Well, when he was in prison, once he got incarcerated, wasn't it then that he began to really kind of tighten the news as far as the restrictions go?

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Just almost in a sense, I remember reading up on it where he wanted to sort of vicariously let people know how he was suffering alongside him being in that prison cell.

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Yeah, but he did talk about it before too. He always talked about these things he called atonements, where he was just like supposedly suffering for the people.

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And that was the only way they got another opportunity to have another day. And he was the only one who could do that because he's the mouthpiece of God on earth and the most holy person that could go through that for everybody to give him another chance.

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So he did talk a lot about stuff like that, his interpretation of atonement.

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You can see how distorted that would get in comparison with what we know about the Bible and Jesus. Jesus did that for everyone and then it was done.

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You know, but he had like his own interpretation on that.

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He needed to do that every day for everybody. But yeah. Okay. All right.

15:52

So jumping back into these two timelines, the one that people are familiar with, news starts breaking out about this polygamous cult leader who's now in the

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FBI's top 10 most wanted list. And that became, they came about eventually, initially that kindling was sparked by one of Warren Jeff's nephews that took place, which escalated into him being there.

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And people know about when he was, when he was arrested and he had a suburban with all the different paraphernalia and that's a whole, whole nother story.

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But alongside that with everyone's familiar with is it's obviously your story. So continuing on where we left off in the last episode,

16:31

I think we were talking about, you were kind of working on telling him using his doctrine against him to keep him at arm's distance.

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But in that process, he obviously became one of the FBI's top 10 most wanted.

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So all that being said, going to be a fly on the wall. I think he told us in a training,

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I remember sitting in a room and he was talking about how his nephew had filed something and it all came about.

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It didn't really happen. Of course, you know, he's not going to confess to us, but he did say it didn't happen.

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But what happened really is that he had hypnotism and that caused him to remember things that didn't really happen.

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I don't think he, I don't know anything about that really in real true life, but that was his reasoning.

17:22

Warren Jeff's telling people he and that's what's so dangerous about hypnotism. Some devilish psychology was performed on him.

17:29

He was hypnotized and recalled past events that never happened at all, essentially is what you're saying. He said, and then he told us that he was on the most wanted list at the

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FBI. And I remember I wasn't in the same house where he was, but I remember hearing about that he was on the most wanted list and that he was a fugitive.

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And so like I was talking about how I, I was figuring out the puzzle, you know, the puzzle of how, you know, the downloads were so intense and trying to figure out like, you know,

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I knew something was wrong, what was exactly wrong. So when I was living in these houses and hiding, when

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I was reading and writing and I was telling him I wasn't praying and I told him the whole house,

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I wasn't praying. I was very vocal. And that ultimately is what led me completely out of the church because when

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I figured out the puzzle, I actually went silent and started to study if I needed to stay to help somebody or something.

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But I had been so vocal in the first place that didn't work for me because everybody's like, you know, you're not that person.

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You're the enemy. You can't just all of a sudden be good now.

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So I figured I could leave and do some good on the outside maybe. And there was people in there that were more silent and woke up faster and more mature and, you know, and were doing good things in there, just staying for their kids or stay, you know, there's, they get trapped for multiple reasons, psychologically and physically sometimes.

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But when I was writing to Warren, I figured out that he was claiming his authority from God and that he knew everything, you know, and I figured out that he actually didn't know everything and he was going by letters because he'd actually call me and tell me, you know,

19:29

I got your letter and stuff like that. And I was like, weren't you supposed to be inspired?

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And stuff like, he was just, he kind of awakened me in a lot of like, through this process of reading and writing all of his stuff, it started to realize that I didn't know

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God. I felt like God was real, but I didn't know him anymore. The only person

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I'd ever, the only God I'd ever known was the one that he told me about. And you started seeing that he was fallible. Yeah.

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And he didn't exist, but I did believe that there was a God. I just didn't feel like I knew him.

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And then, um, so that's when I went silent. I didn't get like, so vocal anymore.

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I just went silent and realized that I was in danger, actually. That I, all these people are so loyal and he has all these, you know, everything at his fingertips to command and he doesn't like me.

20:26

It's really dangerous. You're in a town with like a guard tower and big walls. And now all of a sudden you're questioning almost everything that they teach.

20:33

Of course, that's, that's scary. I was in a house in hiding when I left and got to the house in hiding and told them, you know,

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I wasn't praying and I didn't go. I studied and stuff for a while, even after I figured it out to figure out if there was a place to stay or, you know,

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I didn't really have a option other than. And just real quick for anyone who doesn't remember, define real quickly house and hiding, what those are.

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A house in hiding is the middle ground between the elite group, the ones that he called and chosen to be holy and special in a, you know, a certain place.

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And if they struggled, they were sent to a house in hiding where they wouldn't, they would have to prepare to be called back to the elite.

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He didn't want the people that had never been called and the people that were struggling to mingle because then all his information would be everywhere.

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So he set up houses in hiding and I, I was kind of trapped there. I had a caretaker. We couldn't even go outside in a lot of these houses.

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We could only go outside if there was like no neighbors, you know, like way out in the distance.

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And that's really, really what they look for is like five acres at least. Were you able to talk to your parents ever?

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No, no. He, yeah, my parents were never part of the elite.

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So yeah, we, we didn't associate, like that was part of when I, when

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I got married and I went like, I changed my diet. I changed like everything overnight because I'm now in Texas where, you know, not overnight, it was like two weeks and then it was overnight.

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A very fast change. Yeah. And it, it was just like,

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I'm never going to forget like how, how devastating that was. I couldn't even go to the store, you know, I couldn't do anything, you know, and I didn't have a telephone, you know, like there was nothing for five years, you know, like pretty much five years before I was able to reconnect.

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So, um, when I was in these houses in hiding and I figured out all this stuff, like we,

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I had a caretaker that would do the grocery shopping and he had his wife would stay home and why I was gone and then he'd come back and it was just somebody basically to watch us all the time and we couldn't go outside, you know,

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I didn't really want to go back to the elite group because I had learned so much stuff that was going on.

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And I also didn't know how to escape really, you know, how do

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I, how do I pull that off? He's like a prison guard, almost like constantly watching you and his family's watching you.

23:09

Yeah. His wife, that's wow. So I didn't know. And during this process, I actually sent a letter to Warren and, um, if you look it up, it's, uh, one of his brothers,

23:22

Seth Jeffs was caught by the, by the, he was caught aiding and abetting a fugitive by taking his mail to Warren Jeffs.

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So part of my letters were in that mail and Warren Jeffs like really called me up and he's like, what did you write?

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You know, and he was really kind of blaming a lot of stuff on me. Um, didn't, it's like, didn't you know that that was going to happen and you could have told me not to write that letter?

23:52

Well, he did tell me not to, and I did. So yeah, that's why he was like telling me, you know, like you need to move and you need to do something different.

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So he moved me to another house and, um, but ever since then, like it was like a stage kind of, cause he was already mad at me and I, I didn't have like any, any way, like I was kind of trapped.

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Like I didn't have, I didn't want to go back to the elite group cause he was there. I didn't want to, um,

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I didn't know how to escape yet. So what I did is I just kept reading, kept, you know, doing my stuff using his scripture against him and studying.

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And eventually he got caught, which was a blessing and a miracle really for me because then

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I could start to research routes out because now I can go to the elite group if, if that's where he sends me and I can study and figure out maybe how to escape from there.

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You know, anywhere he puts me from that point on, I can figure out like more ways to maybe escape.

24:58

Now when you say he got caught, you're talking about, cause in the timeline that we wrote out, November, 2005, it was, uh,

25:04

Seth Jeffs, Warren Jeff's younger brother is stopped by police near Pueblo, Colorado in his truck. Police said they found $142 ,000 in cash, prepaid credit cards.

25:14

We don't even post some of the stuff on our social media. We're going through some of the crime scene photos earlier, uh, phone cards, hundreds of letters addressed to Warren Jeffs and quote, the prophet, and even a glass filled jar filled with change.

25:26

Seth Jeffs admits to taking the items to Texas to keep his brother on the run.

25:32

Did you have something you want to say? That's when they found those letters that she was talking about. So Warren Jeffs was, was actually caught in, uh, 2006 of August in Nevada.

25:43

Yeah. So there's two things that happened and also like during this process. So like Seth's got caught and I still kept reading and studying and Warren Jeffs really, really, really bad.

25:54

Wanted me to go back to the elite groups and I wasn't praying still. He actually asked me in his, it's online somewhere.

26:01

He asked me in a, in one of his, in his journal, he wrote, I called up, my name was

26:07

Lynette Warner. Cause I called up Lynette and asked her if she was praying and she said, no. Hey, he wrote that right in his journal.

26:14

That's online. So, um, he couldn't convince me to go back when he was there.

26:22

So what he did is he put me in another house and hiding, and you can look this up too. I think it was called

26:27

Wendell Musser. He was the caretaker of the house. And, um, during, he put me in the house after Wendell Musser got, got caught for a

26:38

DUI or something and went to, um, he went to jail, jail for a night.

26:45

And during that night, he called us, Warren Jeffs called us and told us he turned traitor. He was under a lot of pressure and they found a picture of Warren Jeffs in his car or something.

26:56

And he, we all needed a prayer way out of there. So that was his way of like forcing me to pray because he was like basically threatening me, telling me that, you know,

27:06

I would be wanted as aided, aiding and abetting a fugitive. And, you know, because that's what happened to Seth Jeffs threatening you.

27:14

Yeah. So we needed a prayer way out of there. So we all pray. And then, um, they show up the next day with a trailer.

27:23

We load all our stuff in the middle of the night and go to another house and hiding. Well, in that story of Wendell Musser, when he talks about his story, he didn't turn traitor.

27:33

He came home to a wife remarried and a family gone, you know, like everything gone.

27:39

He just came home to an empty house, a wife remarried, like he was just kicked out of the church for no reason, you know, like not really a reason like, you know,

27:50

DUI stuff isn't that big of a thing for FLDS. Like, I mean, it was, I mean, it is, but it's, it's not the same category as being,

27:59

I guess it was at that time, but it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like he had really hurt anybody or anything, but, um, yeah.

28:12

So anyway, his, that was part of my story where he was like forcing me to do what he wanted.

28:18

And one of the things in one of my letters, I wrote about how I didn't want kids because I, um,

28:25

I wanted to teach them well and take care of them more than have kids.

28:31

And he told, he called me up and told me, you don't get to decide that. I decide that. And you know, stuff like that.

28:37

And I was like, really? So we were kind of in a battle, like almost all the time, quietly, not everybody knew about our battle, but so when he went to jail, when

28:50

Warren Jeffs got caught in 2006, like you were saying, um, that was what

28:58

I saw as like, okay, you know, maybe I can get out, you know? And then, um, it was a long process of when

29:07

I started to really research avenues and ways, he was kind of ahead of the game on me in a lot of ways.

29:16

Like he used, well, he had all the tools too. I didn't have all these people on my beck and call, but he, um, used that letter, those letters that had been taken by Seth Jeffs to say that it was my fault that he, um, was being, he didn't say it publicly.

29:34

He just told like specific people, certain few elite people. Yeah. That you, that it was my fault that he was found and that, you know, because of what

29:43

I wrote and it was like a ton of psychological torture that I went through for three years.

29:51

And it was the hardest thing for me was that not everybody was in on it. Like he only had his, his specific people.

29:59

And so I'm sitting there having to focus on the conversations that we were having with these elite select few and everybody who didn't understand what was going on, they were just telling them that I was crazy.

30:13

And if I stopped to start, if I started to deviate from their conversation, then

30:19

I would get punished. So I just kept escalating. I kept escalating and escalating until, um, like I said,

30:27

I was being brought into cold doctors and being drugged and stuff because they, and then

30:33

I learned a lot about medical and how you can use just about anything to say somebody's crazy, you know, like there's something that there's a diagnosis for it if you got it.

30:43

And so I had to fight that and it just got really, and I'm going to write about a lot of the actual stages in my book, but.

30:53

Wasn't there an aspect too, where one of the primary reasons the FBI got involved, cause you're talking about cold doctors and people, and it's funny because people will have a disconnect.

31:02

They'll hear something like that. That sounds like something in a movie where all of a sudden like the doctors they're under control by the cold or something like that.

31:09

They were. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, you're, it's amazing because you're, you're saying this, this is just your, what your experience was, but the typical listener will hear that.

31:18

And it's just so far. Oh, I just have a doctor's appointment. It's so far disconnect from reality in a lot of ways, but isn't it also the case where one of the reasons why the

31:30

FBI got involved is because of the fact that they couldn't really do anything from a level of local law enforcement because local law enforcement was

31:39

FLDS loyal. Wasn't that the case? Yeah. In, in, in the, like the group that was, um, like we call them the abandoned group, like the group that was just like praying every day and not worthy yet that never got called the group that never got called.

31:56

That was in Colorado city and Hilda, Utah. That's an older compound. Um, they, they were all

32:03

FLDS law enforcement there. Wow. So they had wherever there was

32:08

FLDS, there was more control. And so, um, with me,

32:15

I, so I went through this torture for three years and then, um, I like,

32:21

I kept using their doctrine against him and I, and I kept passing their tests. Like they'd bring things to me and say,

32:26

Warren just said this. And I would be like, okay. You know, and, and they would always hesitate because I didn't look guilty.

32:35

And so they would, they have to be certain or they would have consequences themselves if they do something wrong.

32:43

So it just kept like, I kept getting more opportunities and more opportunities.

32:49

And it actually led to where they told me that if I went to my father's house in Colorado city,

32:56

I'd be the first person in Warren Jess family to actually go to Colorado city after we were all taken away.

33:03

Hmm. He, they said I could go there. And if I found something wrong with my father, because of the, like I said, the doctrine of covenant saying about baptism that said, if you don't understand, by the time you're eight years old, the sin goes on the head of the parent.

33:15

They said, why don't you just go find something wrong with your father and write about it to Warren Jess in this certain way, then, um, you can have another opportunity.

33:26

And so I decided I would go to Colorado city because that would be easier to escape from there because there is a mixture of ex -FLDS and FLDS in the older compound.

33:36

Um, the newer ones are all FLDS. So I decided to go there and I get to see my family too, which is a really huge bonus.

33:45

And, but, um, I didn't blame it on my father. Yeah. I actually tried really hard to find other avenues, like all the time.

33:56

I was pressured a lot, but most of the time I would just like tell him that I'd rather die than do that.

34:06

But that time I decided I would go to, um, Colorado city. And then when

34:12

I got there, I didn't write the letter. And so I stayed for a while.

34:17

And, um, the reason why I did that is because I was trying to decide if I should just leave immediately or if I should, um, help the kids.

34:27

Yeah. And I, and that was my ultimate goal for even going in the first place was to help the kids.

34:34

So I determined because now I knew all this knowledge of how to get Warren Jess to correct my father, you know, then why wouldn't he correct the people who did it to me if I wrote in this certain way about them, but I didn't want to do it immediately because I didn't think

34:48

I would live through it. And I kind of wanted to key and continue to help people. So I waited for about two years and then

34:55

I wrote the letters about everybody who did it to me. And I knew they wouldn't die, but I knew they would probably lose a position.

35:03

And what that does for the kids is make, so they have to retrain adults to train the kids.

35:10

So while they're retraining the adults, the kids that get a break. And so I did that before I left.

35:18

And that was the reason why I got locked up. I got actually locked up in a room that my story is one of the true ones.

35:26

Like you're talking about, um, some of the stories do get dramatized, but my story is actually one of the very few true ones where I literally had the doorknob turned around where the lock was in the kind of window that you lift up.

35:44

And, um, I, the reason why they did that to me is because I was trying to escape and I knew too much.

35:51

Um, so I found some scissors and I unscrewed one side of this screw and, um, this one wasn't pounded in all the way.

36:01

So I just pounded on it until it broke off. And then I didn't open any drawers.

36:08

I didn't take any pictures. This pictures here are actually pictures that were secretly sent to me later by somebody who just decided to send them to me.

36:19

But, um, I didn't get to open any drawers or take my ID or anything. I didn't realize they even needed

36:25

ID because I hadn't been in the real world for basically my whole life. But I did realize that if I opened any drawers, cause

36:36

I was told to lay down and read. So if I opened any drawers, they would know that both screws were undone. If I, cause, cause they knew

36:43

I was pounding on the one and they knew it broke off and I stopped pounding obviously, but they didn't realize

36:48

I already got one out. So if I just leave, there's a chance they might think I laid down and read.

36:54

If I open all these things, they're going to think, Oh, well, she's leaving. So, um,

37:01

I had a lot of miracles from that day on. Um, people in the media usually say her story is a horror story before, and it's, uh, it's, uh, too good to be true.

37:15

My story, like when I ran, I, I took side roads cause I had tried to run on the streets before and got picked up in the community.

37:24

So I took, I went through the Creek. I, um, went to a family that I knew was all

37:31

XFLDS and had left. And before I got there,

37:37

I ran through a yard and there was a lady outside meditating and she was dressed like people out here.

37:42

And she said, can I help you? And I was like, yeah, um, will you help me get to that house up there?

37:48

Cause I didn't know her, but she was dressed different. So she drove me up to where I was going and she's like, should I go in or should

37:54

I just leave? I said, you might as well come in. And she's actually the one who knew the organization's phone numbers.

38:00

The family I was running to had too recently left, but they did help me. They did drive me after a whole day of convincing them.

38:07

They didn't want to keep me in themselves. They did, but it was, it would be hard because I knew how hard it was for me to escape in the past.

38:17

Like I'd been brought back so many times. I was like, no, we need to leave town. So after a whole day of convincing them, they drove me halfway to the organization and I was picked up by now my adoptive mom who, um, who was in an organization helping people.

38:36

And, um, I'd never met her. She was from a different group and she'd brought me to her house that night and I stayed with her that night.

38:43

Like I was desperate. Like I, I knew I couldn't go to a family member. That would be the first place they would look.

38:49

I did have a few brothers that left, but I knew they would look there and they did chase me.

38:58

They put me on the missing list. They, every nonprofit that's out there has told me now they all got a phone call at least from one

39:05

FLDS member saying she's crazy. She needs us. And there was two weeks before the experience where I climbed out the window and succeeded.

39:16

Um, I went to Flagstaff, Arizona and my brother brought me there and he had a business trip.

39:23

So he brought his whole family and he brought me to, cause he didn't want to leave me home. And he went in and talked to the police.

39:33

Well, actually I asked to talk to the police. And so the police came and talked to him first. And then they came to me and they said, because of your mental state, we've already sent a paper that says you have to go back.

39:44

And I was devastated. I didn't understand what happened until like way later.

39:49

That's part of the epiphanies and talking to people and stuff. I believe the cult doctors gave them my records.

39:57

And so the police force, like usually to get your records on the outside, you have to sign.

40:03

Yeah. And so them having my records, they figured I had signed. Wow. But I never had signed.

40:10

So, um, I believe if I would have got brought back even one more time, I would have been like, my rights would have been taken away, like legally taken away so that I, I wouldn't have ever been able to get out.

40:25

But because I ran and because organizations helped me, there was one organization holding out help that, um, is very successful, but they, um, brought me to a psych, like a doctor, you know, psychologist or whatever, and got a signature saying she's healthy enough to make her choices.

40:45

So that if I did get caught on the streets, cause I didn't have a car, you know, I needed to do things. I had to ride the bus and they were searching all the roads in Salt Lake and I was staying in domestic violence shelters.

40:55

And, you know, it was just a big, for at least six months, it was pretty hard.

41:02

And there was some one organization in particular, I'm not going to name their name, but they, um, decided

41:08

I really was crazy and tried to turn me back in. And they were telling my family everywhere

41:14

I was. And so I had to drop all the organizations helping me and pick up different ones. And, um, my case manager at the domestic violence shelter helped me do that and drove me to a new one.

41:27

And then I got a call like three days later saying they're at our door, the old shelter saying you're hiding her.

41:33

And we've been searching the roads. And, and there was a girl who got kidnapped off the streets.

41:39

A police officer, police officer got fired. Like there was so much stuff happening.

41:45

And then during that process, a week later, my father gets corrected mysteriously, you know, like he, they didn't tell him it was because of me, but I think it was.

41:55

And he's told he could never come back to the church. He lost his family. He he's devastated, you know, he's, he's trying to figure out his own life.

42:03

So I, um, I get like two offers. One was to go to a place that would charge like a thousand dollars a month that I could work for trade to pay.

42:17

Um, if I wanted cult experts to help me, or, um,

42:23

I could go to a family that was Christian family in Tennessee. And I actually chose that one because it would be like,

42:32

I don't know. It just felt better. Yeah. It sounds better. When you say like the cult experts to help you, is that an aspect of like the deprogramming where they just deal with a strictly from a psychological standpoint?

42:44

Yeah. There was a building somewhere that was willing to take me in, but I chose to go to the, just the family.

42:52

And I actually called the domestic violence shelters in that area. Cause I'd grown to love some of the people in the culture and domestic violence shelters, because, you know, that was better than, you know, what

43:03

I had had. So, um, and it felt safe somewhat. So I called the shelters.

43:09

I'm like, if anything goes wrong, can I go there? And they're like, yeah, we'll take you. So I felt really confident.

43:16

And, and the, and the organization that presented that to me, drove me all the way to Colorado so that I could, and hid my identity in the airport so that it couldn't be tracked like a secure.

43:30

Yeah. And flew me to Tennessee and, um, the family that took me in,

43:36

I figured out later after I finally felt like ultimately okay, you know, like really safe and I, and realized that I really did succeed.

43:48

I kind of went like into this PTSD, but it was so overwhelming, like, like crash down, like, you know, you need to sort out this life, you know, time to process you're not in flight mode or fight mode.

44:03

Now it's time to process everything that's happened to you for years of your life. I could only imagine.

44:09

So I ended up not being able to handle the pressure of a family at that time, because it was just too much to be like, did you eat today?

44:19

Did you, you know, everything was because they really cared and I just couldn't handle that pressure.

44:24

So I ended up going to the domestic violence shelter and that worked out really well because what they did is they put me in a room that had, um, the children's room was right outside the door and this room had a divider in it and they had two doors.

44:39

So the children would walk in the other room that was empty and look over the divider and ask me if I ate and children are like, they have a different feel about them than, you know, they don't, they don't always, you know, they don't have agendas usually.

44:53

It's a form of innocence. Yeah. Yeah. So I would get my food and stuff, you know, like it really helped me for the first six months.

45:00

I didn't, I didn't have constant clarity. Wow. But then I started to, I did get to where I had constant clarity and then

45:07

I started to have like only like episodes about every six months.

45:13

And then I decided, well, what happened is when I changed my name, I found somebody that knew how to do that.

45:18

They changed my name, my social, and I was legally adopted legally and all done right after it took two years when that all went through, they didn't change my

45:28

SSI over. So I couldn't pay my rent and there just happened to be like, you know, another miracle, a pilot that had graduated from college from the

45:39

FLDS who had some free tickets that gave to my attorney who helps FLDS specializes in helping

45:45

FLDS mostly, um, some free tickets if anybody in a crisis needs them.

45:51

And I just flew back to Salt Lake and stayed with a lady who took me in. That was from the

45:56

FLDS and had left. And I, I moved around a little bit with friends of hers when, you know, it's hard out here for all of us, but, um, during that timeframe,

46:11

I had another episode. So it was a year and a half after I came back to Utah, I took like medical billing and coding school and, you know, different things.

46:22

And, um, I, I had an episode after about a year and a half when

46:28

I was first starting to date. Um, that was really hard on me. And, um,

46:34

I, when I had my episode of what I do is I walk away from the house because I ran so much in the

46:40

FLDS trying to get away and I don't use a car or anything. I just like walk away from the house and the police picked me up and brought me to the hospital and didn't tell anybody.

46:49

So my mother had to do a flyer to find me and she had to choose between my old name and my new name.

46:56

And that flyers online too, I think you can see pictures of it, but she chose my, my new name because she knew if she put my old name on there, it'd be everywhere.

47:06

Yeah. People know where you're at. Yeah. So she put my new name on there and it went through the crick.

47:12

All my friends are like, this is your picture. This is your name. What's going on? I mean, not your name, but this is your picture and this name is on it.

47:18

What's going on? And, um, so after that, I didn't feel the need to just like hide it from everybody.

47:27

And I figured out that I had the opportunity to go and like,

47:32

I know a lot about the UEP, which is the land in Colorado city, the older compound. I knew a lot about the land there way more than any land on the outside.

47:43

I don't know how to do real estate on the outside. I've tried and it's, it's hard for me, but that land

47:49

I knew everything about. So, um, I heard that, um, well,

47:58

I asked a bunch of questions and figured out that I probably could go and ask for Warren Jeff's house.

48:05

And I knew if I didn't go after it, it would go to somebody else that probably wasn't affiliated with his family.

48:12

Maybe, probably affiliated with the religion, but you know, the cult, at least that maybe somebody that left, but it wouldn't be like,

48:20

I, I kind of pictured in my mind, a dream of maybe, um, helping people like having a place for them to transition, because I knew that holding out help, they mostly do permanent housing.

48:33

They find families like foster care, but they call them host homes. Um, I knew that was happening, but a lot of times when they don't have a bed available, they don't have a lot of beds, but at that time they didn't have any as far as I remember.

48:47

And if they don't have a bed immediately, they would just go on a list and that doesn't work when you're in a crisis.

48:53

So I, and also when I went to domestic violence shelters, I had to lie to get into them because the funding was for intimate partner abuse and my partner was in jail.

49:00

So I had to tell him that it wasn't Warren Jeff's, like it was just some random person. Like, how do you tell someone it's like, Warren Jeff's?

49:06

Like, oh, the guy in the news, like what? Yeah. Yeah. I experienced in Tennessee, like psychologists, laughing at me because I told them that I was married to Warren Jeff's and they don't know,

49:18

I'm not in their backyard, you know, and they were like, well, you know, and then I'd go back the next appointment and they'd say,

49:24

I Googled this and it looks true. I told you. Yeah. Because I hear bizarre stories all the time, but that was just a really new one.

49:34

But, um, they, uh, so that it was really like a growing process.

49:42

I found it has been a battle, like, but it's been fun, like contrast.

49:47

Cause I have something always to compare with. And also, I had, um, now in my process, like after hard work pays off, then you start to get more motivation.

49:57

And then, um, I did meet Christians in Tennessee and I really loved,

50:04

I started to learn a little bit about Christianity and I loved how there was so much like love instead of judgment.

50:11

And I didn't know how that all worked, but I, I did figure out that they believed that it was a gift instead of from work.

50:21

And so I actually got baptized there thinking that was the deciding factor because that's what I had grown up with.

50:28

And then I have a certificate and everything somewhere. I should have brought it, but it talks about that day.

50:33

And then I, um, when I left, I felt devastated because I wanted those

50:38

Christians. I didn't want every Christian because I'm really partial to ones that are succeeding.

50:45

Yeah. Anyway. So I just came back and I didn't understand why I would have to leave them.

50:52

Um, but I, I didn't research any Christians, but when I did, um, when

50:59

I did go down and figure out like Warren Jess house, it was 45 rooms. It was, you know,

51:05

I went and asked for it and on the paperwork, I actually wrote that somebody was helping me and they said, what do you want to call it?

51:12

You know, just for this paperwork to look professional. And I told them, let's just call it the dream house.

51:18

So they actually wrote on the paperwork, the dream house. Wow. And I'd never heard of the dream center.

51:24

Wow. Yeah. And, um, so they, when

51:31

I asked them, they were like, no way, like it's 45 rooms. You even know what you're talking about? You know, like, this is crazy.

51:39

You can't pay the power bill. You can't pay the water bill. Like it would be like, you know, a bad business thing for us.

51:46

Well, I happen to have a friend in the room at the time who stood up and donated four houses to the cause because he wanted to be sure

51:54

I got the opportunity. And so they decided they, they had to kind of give me the opportunity.

51:59

They kind of came to that conclusion on their own. And, um, so I took the opportunity.

52:09

Oh, sorry. No, you're good. You're good. Oh, anyway. So we, we went through the whole process of finding a buyer.

52:18

Um, I met some good Christians in, in Colorado city that, um, introduced me to the people in the dream center.

52:27

And, um, so now like the short Creek dream center is helping.

52:34

And I work there. Like I, it's a worldwide organization. I work there. And if you, if you look up, uh, short

52:41

Creek dream center .com or .org, I think it's .org. Yeah. Then you can pull up my poetry link.

52:49

Yes. And you, um, and so you actually came down here, you come down and, and volunteer at the dream center down here too.

52:55

Yeah. Which is really cool. I mean, it's funny to me just because our apology, a church, which is this whole studio is a by -product of apology at church, but this came about initially because we planted a church out of a local drug and alcohol rehab facility called a

53:11

Calvary Dixon recovery center. And so we've actually worked a couple of times. We've had to work a couple of times alongside the dream center, actually.

53:17

So we actually have a connection along with that background. So it's always been an area that we've had as a church that's been near and dear to our hearts.

53:25

People having to go through a lot of times like recovering rehab through certain addictions and traumas and things like that.

53:30

At one time, our church was roughly 90 % people coming out of detox and rehab, where you come up to them and say,

53:38

Oh, how, how do you right now because of our media audience, people will come up to us and say, Oh, at church, we'll say,

53:43

Oh, how do you know about apologia? And, Oh, I saw you guys on YouTube, which in contrast to that, when we first started, well, how'd you know about apology?

53:51

Oh, I just got out of Calvary. I just got a rehab a week ago. And that was roughly like 90 % of our congregants.

53:57

So yeah, it's a, it's, it's definitely a huge thing. You know, it's really cool that you're doing that for sure.

54:02

I just want to get some clarifying questions here. So the house that Warren Jeffs used to own that at 45 rooms is now the short

54:10

Creek dream center. Yes. Okay. So that's a beautiful picture of what God's done in your life.

54:16

Yeah. And I did sit down with those Christians and then explain the difference between baptism and just accepting the prayer of Jesus, which was like huge for me.

54:24

I was like, that's what I want. Yeah. That's what I thought I did. I didn't do that. And I actually got baptized again, like about a month ago just to show, you know, after I accepted

54:34

Jesus, like the right order. And yeah, that is beautiful. Yeah. Like that is beautiful.

54:40

I'm still like amazed that a home that used to be Warren Jeffs, this horrible pedophile cult leader who's still a cult leader, that home is now a place for where people can go to get free from that organization.

54:56

Like, it's like, it's like how God uses those things, you know, horrible, there's horrible events that happen, but God has purpose in things.

55:06

Yeah. They actually use that quote out of the Bible that says what was intended for evil. Yes. God, God meant for good to bring about his purpose.

55:15

In other words, like behold, I'm making all things new and I'm making all new. Not like I'm not making all new things.

55:22

Yeah. I'm making all things new. Right. It wasn't torn down. It was. Yeah. Renewed.

55:28

Right. Yeah. And I, I'm just thinking like now you're doing this and you, and you see moments where you get to kind of do it and even like yourself getting in trouble for it, getting the people in those people in trouble just so you can give those kids a break.

55:40

Yeah. And, but now you get to kind of really do this on an unprecedented scale, but yeah, things have gotten better.

55:47

And now, so you're now remarried, right? Yes. I, I've been married three years now. Okay. And, um,

55:53

I've, I'm become, I got my financial license and I'm becoming like a financial advisor and I'm writing a book and I have this poem.

56:02

Should I read it? Yes. Yes. You, you write poetry. Tell them the website again of the, uh, poetry series, poetry series.

56:10

Where can I find that out? Um, short Creek dream center .org. So if you just, all you have to do is pull it up and it will pop up, comes up and it says sign up if you want to.

56:21

I'm on it right now. Yeah. And so before you read this, we'll post things on our social media, do some read, like do some research just on the

56:27

FLDS, go through the Google images section. Look at those pictures of all the women with the exact same braids, exact same long dresses, everything that they've been through.

56:37

And that's why we told you to, it's best to do this poem at the end because now people will see the real weight and feel of your story with this being told kind of a paraphrased version of something that might be familiar with.

56:49

So that being said, I'm gonna hand it to you. Okay. I don't know how a world that makes such wonderful things could be bad.

56:59

Look at this stuff. Isn't it neat? Identical dresses and patterns that fit.

57:05

Wouldn't you think I'm the girl, the girl who has everything. Look at the groove keeping sweet makes numbness.

57:14

That's true. My identity's fake looking around here. You think, wow, she's got everything.

57:21

I've got needles and pins, all plenty. I've got buttons and zippers and more. You want children?

57:28

I've got 20, but who cares? No big deal. I want more.

57:36

I want to be where I get to choose. I want to wear what I choose to wear.

57:42

Girls walking around. What's that word again? Jeans, teaching homeschool.

57:48

If there was the time. Working with business tools, never seeing a dime.

57:54

Maybe they'll what? Read. Out where they roam.

58:00

Out where they dance. Out where they play and have fun. Wandering free.

58:05

Wish I could be part of your world. What would I give if I could live out in the real world?

58:12

What would I pay to spend a day trying things for the first time?

58:18

Bet you out there they understand. Bet they don't. Punish on demand.

58:25

Scolding cause they're told who and what gets sold. Ready to stand.

58:31

Ready to know what the world knows. Ask them my questions and get some answers.

58:37

What's a color in your hair like? Makeup? What's the word? Style. When is it my turn?

58:45

Wouldn't I love? Love to explore that world with true freedom. Out of the cage.

58:52

Wish I was raised part of your world. Wow. Beautiful.

59:00

Beautiful. Yes. And now you are part of our world. Now you're part of the part of the amazing series here at cultish to be able to share this with the, with the entire world.

59:13

So in a sense, yeah, that's that there's a, there's a, there's a little poetic truth to that.

59:19

No pun intended. For sure. Well, I, I look forward to reading the book.

59:25

We'll, you will have to have you on again to maybe talk about some other aspect at some point in time when you come out here again.

59:31

So really grateful for you to come on and, and I'm sure a lot of you were blessed by the story. We'll be posting more stuff on our social media in regards to this.

59:39

And so definitely like share this episode, share with your friends, let them know this amazing, intriguing story of one of the most really a beacon of light in this real sea of darkness of one of the most notorious cults in American history.

59:57

And now, but there's still things that are made new of it. You have this center that's being made out of what was initially used for evil.

01:00:05

So incredible. So all that being said, thank you again so much for coming on absolute blessing.

01:00:11

So all that being said, thank you guys for listening. As always, we need you to be part of the cultish crew to be able to give people like Brielle a voice to be able to share her story, the world so much more you want to do this upcoming year.

01:00:22

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01:00:36

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01:00:44

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