Are Christians to Blame for Low Vaccination Rates?

Welcome to The Wrap Report with your host, Andrew Rappaport, where we provide biblical interpretation and application.

This is a ministry of striving for eternity in the Christian podcast community.

For more content or to request a speaker for your church, go to strivingforeternity .org.

All right, well, welcome to another edition of The Wrap Report.

I'm your host, Andrew Rappaport, and I am here with my co -host, Bud the

Wiser.

How you doing, Bud?

Greetings, brother.

How you doing?

I just noticed your t -shirt matches my cup.

Yes.

You got the nice striving for eternity t -shirt that says, God exists.

He has spoken.

I like that shirt.

One of these days, I desire to get to that level where I get the cup.

Oh, well, someone sent it to me, so.

I'm content with the shirt.

I'm wearing a shirt I just got, as you can see.

Voice of Reason Radio.

Yeah.

So I got my new Voice of Reason Radio t -shirt.

Anyone that wants to get one of those, I encourage you to reach out to Chris Honholds from Voice of Reason Radio.

Very comfortable shirt.

I enjoy it.

So I'm grateful for him for letting me purchase one.

Yeah, I didn't get one free or anything.

I mean, it's just...

No, not even for showing your vaccine card?

Yeah, yeah.

You know, I thought that.

I really thought that, you know, after I gave him the two six -foot elves, you know, to

taunt him with Buddy the Elf, that he would be like...

That's right.

You know, brother, you've given me so many free gifts.

I should give you a free t -shirt, but that didn't happen.

No, he made me pay the full $25.

He gave some child a discount, but me, he made pay a full $25.

I was like, you know, this is what good friends do, right?

But it was a good time over at Cruciform.

That was a number...

The thing I like about Cruciform is it really is a conference like what Justin

Peters wanted to do some years ago, a conference with some pastors that nobody knows, but are

outstanding preachers.

And that's basically what Cruciform is.

Most of the guys people don't know of, and all of them are outstanding preachers.

And so I usually get there and be like, man, I don't know what I'm doing here.

You know, some of these guys are just outstanding.

And it was a little different, though.

It was different.

The theory was still standing, the 500th anniversary of the Diet of Worms.

And so I expected that every speaker was going to be talking about Martin Luther.

And I'm like, how do I do something different?

Because, you know, when you're at a thing like that, and everyone's talking the same topic.

And so I was really like, okay, what am I going to do?

I chose what I ended up deciding to do was to deal with my title was The Tale of

Two Johns.

And so I started off with looking at the guy who really influenced Martin Luther,

and that is Jan Hus, John Hus.

And John Hus was influenced greatly by John Wycliffe.

But those were not the two Johns, the John I dealt with was John Hus, and then a modern day John, John

MacArthur, and looking at how the both of them what what made them different and

stand out and gave them the fortitude to be still standing.

So that that message should be coming out shortly on cruciform on their YouTube channel.

And when it is, I may drop that as a an episode here or bonus episode.

So something to look forward to.

Good.

So, but we've we have been seeing some articles recently, and

even some video here that will play that has basically been insinuating

that Christians are to blame for the low vaccination rate.

So some of the things we want to cover today is the question, are Christians to blame for low vaccination rates?

Are Christians putting out false information about the vaccine?

And, you know, is there a direct tie between the beliefs in Christianity to

vaccinations that support these claims that are being made?

So those are three of the things we're going to want to cover in today's episode.

What what I'm thinking we start with, because there's there's a couple articles we want to go through.

And I want to play a this is from PBS NewsHour.

And this is going to deal with Russell Moore, who is no longer part of the SBC.

I have a feeling but I could be wrong.

I may I'm not making a prophecy here.

But I have a feeling that in our next episode, we may be addressing something that

happens at the SBC next week.

I could be wrong.

I could be wrong.

Maybe nothing will happen.

And it'll be very boring with them having a historic number of messengers that are going to the convention,

mostly conservative messengers this time, who woke up to the wokeness of the SBC.

And maybe, maybe we'll have a conservative president now, like a real conservative president, not,

you know, conservative in name only.

Yeah, yeah.

You're probably right.

With that, not actually word there.

But yeah, I think what makes me multitude of issues that are going to come out of this and, and folks need to be in

prayer for what's going on next week, because just by virtue of the platform, the size, the

footprint of the SBC in broader evangelicalism, what happens there will will have an

impact.

So we need to be praying for truth to prevail.

And the voices of those guys who stand for truth to prevail.

And we even need to thank the Lord that those who weren't of us are no longer among us.

Yeah, I mean, I think I'm not in the SBC either.

But yeah, I mean, it'd be good.

We'll probably talk about this next week, because I'm sure we'll talk about it.

But I think it would have been good for some of the SBC churches that pulled out over the last year or so, or two years

to have just waited till this one more and give it one last shot.

I know many pastors are doing that their churches are seeing if they'll make a change this this year.

And if not, I think the SBC is going to have a large number of people who

are churches that are going to leave.

So this is a go ahead.

No, I was gonna say, but at the time that you this thing you're about to play is actually from April.

And so you got Russell Moore, who was at that time, the president of the ERLC and was SBC.

So yeah, yeah, I've heard that he will deal with that when we deal with the SBC, why he might have stepped down.

So this is almost a seven minute video that we're going to play and chop up.

And this, like I said, is from the PBS News Hour.

And so we're just going to play this and talk about it.

So let me hit play.

It would help if I properly you couldn't hear that.

So I have to change the where that goes.

So it's one of the things that would be helpful in the setup, you know, who does the producing

of this show?

Oh, me.

Okay, let's go back to hit playing.

Here we go.

As of today, more than 66 million Americans are fully vaccinated against the coronavirus, and many others are eagerly

waiting for their shots.

But among white evangelical Americans, interest in the vaccine isn't as widespread.

John Yang speaks with one evangelical leader about why that is and what can be done to change it.

Okay, so right off the bat, just so you folks know, you see that when you watch news,

I mean, you want to have some critical thinking.

And this, what you end up seeing here is the fact that they make statements.

I want you to look at support.

Is there support for statements they make?

So that's the statement.

There's not widespread influence or interest in

Christians getting the vaccine.

One question asked here critically, have they looked at any other group?

Or did they just look at Christians and make a conclusion?

So we'll see.

Judy, among religious groups, according to the Pew Research Center, white evangelicals are the least likely to say that they

intend to get the COVID vaccine.

In Pew's latest survey conducted in mid -February, 45 of white evangelicals say they definitely or

probably would not get vaccinated.

That compares with 30 % of all Americans and 33 % of black Christians.

Okay, so looking at that number with this, they're

separating white evangelicals, all U .S. adults, and black

Protestants.

Now, why do they do this the way they do it?

They're basically, and I don't know how they're defining evangelicals versus Protestants.

Interesting thing.

I saw another study that just said 45 of evangelicals and 33

of black Protestants, which makes it interesting because the black Protestants, wouldn't they be in evangelicals?

This poll that they have says white evangelicals versus black Protestants.

But with the 33 of black Protestants, which make up part of the Christians,

they would be in that Christian camp.

What you end up seeing is that they would end up lowering

that 45 number if they just had Christians.

Remember, what's the argument?

And we're doing this so you guys can put some critical thinking to this.

If the 45 and 33%, if you put those into one group, which is the argument they're making,

Christians, they weren't distinguishing in their argument that white Christians are

hesitant.

They said Christians.

So, what did they do?

They are purposely segregating the numbers so that they can make it look that the

highest number is amongst evangelicals.

Now, you don't see what they should do when they say all U .S. adults.

They don't do a comparison of white versus black.

You don't have in here Asian evangelicals or any other group.

When in the media they talk evangelicals versus Protestants, typically the

evangelicals are more specifically those Christians that are more likely to evangelize.

That's really where the term came from.

But it is the more typically Christian groups,

those that are of denominations or groups of people that would be following

with the belief that you get converted to Christ.

Where Protestants, not so much.

Protestants have a much wider grouping, typically, the way the media will do it.

So, my question when I look at this is, did they have to include black

Protestants so that you have a larger number of non -evangelicals so that they

could lower the black number and make it look like the white evangelicals are the problem?

This is the stuff that when you see someone that puts a survey out, if you can't dig into the numbers

and look at the survey results directly, you're looking at a graphic as we look at here and go,

well, what does this really mean?

Now, when we're using different language, like evangelicals versus Protestants, why are they

doing that?

My theory might be that the number of black evangelicals are

just as high or higher than white evangelicals.

Therefore, they wanted to widen that to include all of the Protestants.

Like I said, in some studies that I saw, this didn't have the word white evangelicals.

It was just evangelicals.

Now, if that's the case, well, then the black Protestants would be included in white evangelicals.

Kind of an interesting thing.

But this is what we apply critical thinking to these things.

We start to see how the media is creating a narrative.

Unfortunately, however, there are some who help to encourage the narrative.

Well, let's find out who.

Black Protestants, rather.

According to Pew, about 17 % of adult Americans identify as white evangelicals.

Reverend Russell Moore.

Okay, so 17%.

Now, here's the thing that you end up having.

17%, because they just gave the 45 number, it makes it seem like that's

an overwhelming number of society.

And then you realize, oh, it's just 17 % of society.

So white evangelicals make up for 17%.

By the way, that is the same percentage, roughly, as blacks in

America.

Blacks in America, I think, are 18 % or 19 % right now.

So you don't see him asking how many blacks are getting vaccinated.

And is there hesitancy there?

Just note, what's the focus?

White evangelicals.

All right.

And you can see that from the way they do things.

So now we get to Mr. Russell Moore.

Which is a white evangelical.

So he's the guy to go to.

Makes sense, yeah.

Or is president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention.

Reverend Moore, thanks for joining us.

First of all, let's get this out of the way.

Have you gotten the vaccine?

Yes, I've had both shots.

From what you can tell, this skepticism that the polling is capturing among people who identify

as white evangelicals, does this have anything to do with religious beliefs?

No, this doesn't have anything to do with religious beliefs.

It's instead of -.

Okay, just stop right there.

Interview over.

Okay.

Does this have anything to do with religious beliefs?

No.

So this isn't a Christian issue, right?

I mean, this has nothing to do with Christianity.

So you really, at this point, need to stop and say, okay, what does this get to?

What is the reason that white evangelicals are not willing to get the vaccine?

That's what should be asked at this moment.

Okay.

Now, Russell Moore doesn't do as we did and challenge the assumptions made,

okay?

He's not challenging that at all.

He's not sitting there and saying, well, I notice you're focusing on white evangelicals to black Protestants.

He doesn't do that.

He's not challenging that at all.

He's going to further actually endorse that presumption.

And this is the problem with guys like Russell Moore, because he's not

working toward encouraging that which is a conservative Christian,

as we can see from many things he's done within the Southern Baptist Convention.

But what we end up seeing here is you don't see him challenging the narrative.

He's going to reinforce the narrative.

But this interview should have been over at that moment.

At this moment, once it was said that this is not related to Christian belief, interview over.

But it's not, because he had to promote his wokeness.

About the mistrust and distrust that's evident in American society right now.

And plus, I think some of it has to do with the fact that we've been isolated from one another in lots of ways for over a year.

Okay, but I got to ask a question.

I'm not sure.

Was it only white evangelicals that have been isolated for over a year?

I don't think so.

So in those places where such onerous restrictions and mandates were forthcoming from the lesser

magistrates, yeah, I think it was a.

Overall, yeah.

Widespread.

So, I mean, we're going to break this down and look at this.

His first argument is false, right?

Because it's not.

You can't use that to say this is why white evangelicals.

Because this is more than white evangelicals.

This was everyone that was shut down.

Let's see what his next arguments are.

And much of the way that misinformation and disinformation gets combated is with people in conversation with one another.

Okay, so the way information is combated is from being in

relation with one another so that they are able to have these conversations, right?

Has he never heard of social media?

I was just thinking, you know, the whole 2020 pandemic year, how many times did you and I talk?

How many times did you and I text each other?

How many times did we try and persuade one another about a topic or a podcast?

Wow, we had like zero contact.

So there was no information, misinformation.

Come on.

We did like 50 episodes during the pandemic, which isn't really a pandemic.

So his second argument, right, that we weren't able to

talk.

Now, it is interesting because it seems that the left

was able to talk.

They were able to communicate for these protests around the country and burning down all the cities.

That was possible, if I'm not mistaken.

They were able to get thousands of people together.

Did they not?

Well, there's a priority.

Wokeness and the effects of wokeness are at the top, and everything else

filters down from that.

And that's what you end up seeing here is the second argument he makes doesn't

fit because it wasn't the fact that people somehow couldn't communicate.

However, I think the question for Russell is, were both sides

of the vaccine discussion allowed to have equal time in the

limited ways we had to communicate?

I mean, were there groups of people or companies that were

shutting down certain discussion about the vaccines?

The discussion that we now know was right about things with this whole virus,

whether it was made in a lab or not.

Now, that was supposedly a conspiracy theory when Trump was in office.

And now we find out that, yes, Dr. Fauci from his own emails knew it was created in a lab

in Wuhan where he helped fund.

Oops.

Is that misinformation?

Was Fauci lying in his own emails when he said masks

don't help prevent viruses?

And then he said they do when he knew that the immunity we get once you get COVID

could last the rest of your life.

Was he just mistaken?

Lying to himself in his own email?

This would be the things to ask when we ask critical questions.

And so who's giving the misinformation then?

It's like, will the real Dr. Fauci stand up?

So what you end up with is a case where they're saying that because Christians couldn't

meet at church, we didn't have people to correct the false narratives that

Christians were believing.

Why was it only Christians?

That never gets answered here.

But let's see.

That's why lots of us are doing what we can to say.

Vaccination is not only something that's acceptable for Christians.

It's something we ought to thank God that we have the technology for because it's going to get us back to doing the things that we that we

need to do.

OK, but it's going to take us a while to get through this.

All right.

We'll never get through this if we we're going to do a long show to break this apart.

Yeah, we'll do a long show.

Yeah, yeah.

We ought to so we can get back to doing the things that we need to do quicker, like spread disinformation.

Yeah, well, here's the thing.

And I'm going to say this throughout.

How does the vaccine help us get back to normal?

Well, according to President Biden, the way we get back to normal is by taking the vaccine

because we need to protect ourselves and to protect others.

So logical question, critical thinking here, folks.

Let's ask the question, does the vaccine protect us and other people?

I mean, that should be a simple question to ask when we're being told that's why we should get the vaccine.

So what we know, according to science, like real science, like people who are

getting the vaccine, they're still getting COVID.

So what we see is that the vaccine does not protect us against getting COVID.

OK, does it protect us against spreading COVID?

No, they've realized that it won't protect against spread of COVID.

Therefore, the vaccine does not protect you or other people.

What the vaccine does is lessen the symptoms if you get COVID.

That's what it's there.

They're saying it does.

And so, therefore, this isn't designed to protect you or others.

It shouldn't get us back to normal.

It's an emotional support vaccine.

It just makes you feel warm and fuzzy that you've accomplished something that should be noble when actually you

maybe haven't.

It's something that is a placebo.

That's really what the vaccine is, make people they've got everyone in fear, they had everyone in fear, and now they think this is the only

solution instead of just taking hydroxychloroquine, which now is a good thing again.

When Trump said it, that was conspiracy theory.

You might as well just drink bleach or whatever it was that Pelosi was trying to say, he said.

The reality is, is that as we look at it, the things we were told were conspiracy theory,

that they had absolute proof that this was not made in

a lab.

We now know they knew that was wrong when they said it.

And then they're saying that we're the ones passing misinformation.

I do like where I pause it though on Russell Moore.

He looks like he's drunk or something.

I don't know, but that's just where you happen to pause it.

That's an effect of the vaccine.

That's what happens to everybody.

Let's go on.

Sure.

We reached out to some evangelicals in our viewership to ask them about their attitudes toward the vaccine.

One person we heard from is Billy Bryan.

He's 49 years old, a teacher in Memphis, Tennessee.

He says he's young and healthy, and that in his view, what he sees as the potential risks of the vaccine outweigh the

risks of COVID.

Let's take a listen to what he said.

My real hesitancy though, is I just don't really want to see the government or anybody force people

to do something that those people feel like is not in their best interest.

Again, if people are comfortable with it, I think the more the merrier.

But it does seem like a logical decision to hold off, at least to me, individually at this time.

How typical is that?

It was what he just had to say.

And how do you respond to it?

Well, I think we have to make very clear the government isn't forcing people to get the vaccine.

Instead, this is something that's in not only our own best interest, but also in that of our neighbors.

Okay, so let's deal with that.

Two things there.

The argument he just made with this gentleman said, he's right to an extent, the government is

not directly forcing people to get the vaccine.

Critical thinking.

Is the government indirectly forcing people to get the vaccine?

Well, the government has decided that you can't sue the government over the vaccine.

You can't sue the manufacturers over the vaccine.

And now you can't sue businesses that force you to take the vaccine if

required.

The other thing that we've seen recently is that Biden has come out and said that the states that have a

lower vaccine rate are going to have an extra tax.

As he said it, those that don't vaccinate are going to pay the price.

So the government is indirectly forcing the states and businesses

to vaccinate because what you have the government doing is saying that the businesses cannot

be sued if there's complications, if they force people to get vaccinated.

But if you as an employee go to work and you're not vaccinated, the company can be sued for you not

being vaccinated.

Yeah.

So from a business perspective, which one are they going to do?

The only protection they have against lawsuit is to require everybody to be vaccinated.

So essentially, Biden is forcing businesses to act as government.

And so he's right in the sense that the government's not directly doing it, but they are indirectly

doing it and forcing businesses to act as government.

Now let's deal with his other argument.

We have to do this for love of neighbor.

And you're going to hear this.

This is going to be a thing you're going to hear me say over and over again.

Does this protect you or your neighbor?

No.

The vaccine does not stop you from getting COVID nor spreading COVID.

Therefore, the argument that we have to get the vaccine because we love our neighbors so that they don't get a virus that

we can still get and spread after vaccinated is a wrong argument.

Bud, you sent me an article this morning about the cruise ship, 100 % vaccinated.

They had to prove they're vaccinated to get on board.

They now have two cases of COVID that people got while on board.

And so the reality is, I'll give you an idea how the government works.

You have all these businesses that are being forced with the vaccinations.

And so you have cruise lines that are saying, well, you can't get on a cruise without being vaccinated.

And then what do they end up doing?

You end up getting Florida that says, that passes a law.

It is illegal to ask for a vaccine passport in the state of Florida.

In fact, if you do, it's $5 ,000 per person that is asked.

What does cruise lines do?

They go, well, we have several ports in Florida.

That's where most of the Americans go cruising from, you know, to go to the Caribbean.

That's where they usually go out of.

So if they can't go out of Florida without asking for passports, because they're going to get fined $5 ,000,

they suddenly change their policy.

Some cruise lines said nowhere, but at least some of them said in Florida, you don't need to be asked for a

passport.

Everywhere else you do.

They're responding to what's in the interest of making money for the business.

The government is making the rules that basically say, okay, we're going to decide how you're going to behave in

business.

That's when we have issues is when the government forces businesses.

And why is there the whole mask mandate?

There is no such thing as a mask mandate.

Okay.

It's unconstitutional because it violates HIPAA laws.

Okay.

You cannot have businesses that don't have people without a medical degree

requiring people to put on medical devices.

A mask is a medical device.

And so to require that, it's illegal.

Why was it done?

Well, because it wasn't the government doing it.

It was the government telling businesses to do it.

Okay.

So let's have a little bit more Russell Moore.

We're halfway through.

We have really good scientific data on the vaccines.

And I think some of the hesitancy that we saw in that clip may be overcome just as people start to see their neighbors being

vaccinated and to see the fact that this isn't scary.

This is in fact something that's helpful and helpful to protect the people who are the most vulnerable around us.

So it's not just about protecting oneself.

Okay.

So just listening to that, he admits it's basically a placebo.

What is the purpose?

His argument, what was the purpose for getting it?

Fear.

So maybe the reason that evangelicals are not

getting the vaccine is because they're not afraid.

See, now we get to what the real issue is.

Why is it that there's not as many evangelicals going out and getting a vaccine?

Because evangelicals are not afraid of the virus because they

know that God's in control.

Well, with the statistic that you showed earlier, the 45%, I'm sitting here thinking, my

goodness, that is horribly low.

It should have been 85%.

For that very reason, we have a hope that others don't.

And you work in all the other issues related to how this came down as the

next bubonic plague, and we're going to have millions of bodies stacked up in the street.

And when that didn't come to pass, not denying the legitimacy of the virus, it is a real

thing, but the impact is not at all what the fear mongers

promoted.

Correct.

Okay, then the vaccine is kind of a non -question.

You know, and it's interesting that you bring that up, bud, because as we look at that, when the left talks of

evangelicals, it's a broad category.

Right.

And Protestants is even broader, but it's broad.

That's going to include the Joel Steen's church type churches.

And those would not be people that are going out and evangelizing, right?

Those are not the conservative Christians.

And so when you look at this, it's going to include people that by

confession would not be Christian, right?

If we looked at confessional documents, they wouldn't be Christian.

They wouldn't have a conversion to Christ.

They like to go to motivational speakers on Sunday and feel good about themselves.

So here's the thing you end up seeing.

When you have that 45 number, you have a larger amount of that

that wouldn't be what we would typically call evangelical.

But what do people think of with evangelical is not always the Joel Steen types.

It's more guys like you and I that are going out and living our faith.

And so they use the language in a way, it's almost like a fallacy of equivocation.

They use the word evangelical two different ways, specifically to the masses, to make it seem like

these are large, you know, the large numbers of all these different groups.

And yet in the minds of the masses, they're thinking this is more specific to individual types, really

conservative Christians.

And so they want everyone to think this is all the conservative Christians.

When they're doing their polling, they're doing this in a wide net.

Yeah.

And again, this has nothing to do with loving your neighbor.

He's saying, oh, this is because, you know, we want people to see that they've gotten it and then the vulnerable among

us.

If people are vulnerable and they feel that the vaccine is going to help, go get it.

But here's the reality that many of the people that I know that aren't getting it is

because they are vulnerable.

They're vulnerable and they're, you know, having issues with heart inflammation, blood

clots, things like this.

In fact, the CDC and I don't remember I sent you this article this morning.

I think you sent it to me first.

But yeah, I know.

Or I know I think I had read it online and then put it on Facebook first.

So it was popped up towards the end of the week last week.

Whereas the CDC is having an emergency meeting, an emergency meeting, OK,

to deal with the vaccination rates.

Why.

Cardiac issues, cardiac inflammation, a couple of different conditions there.

But the focus is on the low vaccination rates and people are and they admitted in

this the reason for the emergency meeting, the reason people aren't getting vaccinated is because

of the inflammation and the blood clots.

Because of the side effects.

And people are starting to wonder, is it worth taking?

Now, that's a decision people need to make.

But here's the thing.

You don't hear that being discussed here.

Why could it be that evangelicals are not

susceptible with all this that they're saying?

Because we're not people that typically live in fear.

And so because we don't have the fear, this whole fake pandemic of and why do I say a

fake pandemic?

Because it is a ninety nine point nine eight percent survival rate.

I just ran the numbers actually in America right now, the number of cases in America,

this the last seven days is equal to the first seven days that we were recording.

So so right now we've we've gone down to the first week of the pandemic when things were just starting to shut down.

And as we look at the number of cases and the number of deaths, the death rate with this

and remember, this death rate is exaggerated.

A friend of mine whose friend got killed in a motorcycle accident.

It was covid.

So all of these with these numbers in America, the death rate

is one point five.

It's kind of interesting because everyone's freaking out over India.

India's death rate is one point two.

But the reality is, is one one point five percent.

So this is pretty close to influenza levels.

You know, it's it it they argue is more contagious.

But how do we know?

How do we know it's more contagious than influenza?

People always say that.

Here's a simple, critical thinking.

Simple question to ask when you get a flu, what do you do, bud?

Yeah, usually you quarantine yourself.

And.

Medicaid and wow, I stay home in bed and shiver.

Yeah, exactly.

You stay home, you don't go to work, but it doesn't get reported anywhere, does it?

No, I don't call anybody and tell them.

Correct.

So you look at this and say, well, how many people get the flu each year?

I have people I used to work with that literally would have flu after flu after flu all

season long.

And they didn't report it anywhere.

Yeah, I saw a report a couple of weeks ago, which we didn't we didn't cite here.

I don't even know where I could find it now.

But out of Ohio, where there have been like zero reports of influenza,

zero.

Wow, that's amazing.

Yeah, because they're all covered.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And so the thing that you end up seeing is that people only go to have their influenza

tracked when when they have a bad case and they go to the hospital.

So is it more contagious?

I don't think so.

I know people that got COVID once and I know people that have gotten the flu

multiple times in a season.

So I just go, OK, we don't even know if it really is more contagious.

But what we do know is that it's not killing people the way that it was supposed off by a

factor of like a thousand.

So the reality is it's not a pandemic.

Let's hear more from Russell Moore.

We still got one more article to get to.

So I'm going to have to call an audible.

I think that's when people go longer.

I don't get all the sports references.

The people we heard from also said this is obviously a small sample, but they said that their pastors and their churches aren't

encouraging them to get the vaccine.

They say it's up to them.

It's a personal decision.

Do you think pastors and churches should be encouraging it?

OK, before we get to his answer, notice what in folks, again, critical thinking when you listen to people,

notice what he says.

He says, although it's a small sampling, he acknowledges that they're making a broad

accusation based off a very small sampling.

Why does he do that?

Well, that's to protect themselves against lawsuit.

Right.

But the whole thing is evangelical Christians are to blame for the low vaccination rates.

Yeah.

And yet he admits you can create a stereotype when it fits your narrative and support your narrative, because there's

definitely an agenda at work here.

Oh, you know, I think you could you could always find a couple of people that agree with your narrative.

Sure.

But I think it's important for us as Christians when we look at something like this, and I'm grateful that you're going through challenging people to think

critically about these things is as as believers, we understand that even behind all of

this, there is a spiritual element.

There is an enemy who is the god of this world right now.

And what does he want to do?

Well, he wants to create division.

So what are we looking at?

Oh, the white evangelicals versus the black Protestants.

So, you know, we've got to create this dichotomy and institute some sort of divisive nature

into what presumably is a scientific issue.

So you've got that.

But you've also got the whole narrative that we should be living in fear.

Well, you know what?

Nowhere do I read in scripture that I'm supposed to be scared by your nightmare.

It's just not something that comes up.

But maybe when you're responsible for other people's sins, why shouldn't you be afraid

for other people's nightmares?

Yeah, well, then moving even further into the wokeness.

Yeah, so the question he's going to now answer is, should pastors be encouraging this?

And this becomes, you know, remember, as he answers this, I want to put one thing

in your mind.

Remember what he said at the beginning.

This has nothing to do with religious belief.

The simple thing should be, well, then why should pastors be doing that?

Pastors should be focused on religious belief.

But now, all of a sudden, they want churches to be involved in political things.

I always thought they didn't want, oh, whatever happens to separation church and state?

Oh, when it fits their narrative, they want the church to be pushing their agenda.

Why?

Because they want the church to divide itself.

What does it say in Scripture?

That a kingdom divided amongst itself cannot stand.

They don't want the church to stand.

They want the division.

Let's hear what Russell Moore says.

Well, I think there are a lot of pastors who are.

They're doing vaccination drives in their congregations.

They're helping people to understand what can be gained.

So, for instance, many evangelical churches have vacation Bible school every summer to say we'll be able to gather together for

vacation Bible school.

To do mission trips.

To do youth community outreach and so forth.

And to minister to the elderly among us who are often the most isolated in assisted living facilities and nursing homes and

other places.

We want to get those grandmothers and grandfathers together with their grandchildren.

And so I think talking about the positive aspects of vaccination is the way to go.

Okay, so notice what he said is the answer.

The same thing we said earlier about how government gets businesses to act as government and

force their way.

What's he saying?

Churches should say, hey, if you want to do this, then you're going to need to

tell those people, hey, you want to be involved in BBS?

You need to get vaccinated.

You want to do ministry in the church?

Get vaccinated.

You want to help the elderly?

Get vaccinated.

In fact, I know of someone that their church, they're actually going to go.

They told me this weekend they need to go find a new church.

Why?

Because their church just put out a statement that said, if you have not been vaccinated, you're going to be secluded to a different

area of the church.

You're not allowed to fellowship with anybody.

You must wear a mask and social distance.

And you're going to be limited in what things you could do to serve the church because you're not going to be allowed to fellowship

or be around anybody in the church.

You have to be in a separate area from the rest of the church.

Segregation.

I always thought segregation was supposedly wrong in this country, right?

I believe it's wrong.

I guess it's only wrong if the certain people say.

I mean, so all the people that were against the whites in the South, and I would be have be against the segregation

that occurred in the South.

But all those people that are supporting this and then were against the segregation of the South.

There's a word for that.

What is that?

What is that?

Yeah, hypocrite.

That's it.

Yeah.

So I'm against all segregation, period.

But here you have a couple that has to make the decision.

They haven't been vaccinated.

They're not going to get vaccinated.

And because of health concerns, basically, we are the guinea pigs for this vaccination,

folks.

We are the guinea pigs.

We know that.

I posted on Facebook something about this, you know, that they're having to do all

the study now.

They're trying to figure out what this emergency meeting because all these heart inflammations.

That's because they didn't do the years of research.

They rushed it out.

And so that's the issue.

Churches are now being used to push political agenda.

This is all about getting vaccinated.

Who makes money?

Oh, Dr. Fauci, the major stockholder of Moderna,

who never had a vaccine out before the COVID vaccine.

And we can't ignore the fact that China was working on a vaccine before

COVID escaped the lab.

Well, wait a minute.

Why would they work on a vaccine?

They figure, well, one day it might accidentally get into a wet market where people might eat a bat

in a wet market that studies seem to say that there were no bats to be eaten.

But anyway, it must have escaped somehow.

Or could it be that, as Dan Bongino says, that this is a biological weapon and that was released?

I mean, if we're going to be honest and take a look at China's numbers, according to China's numbers, they haven't had any

vaccine cases since like last April.

For over a whole year, they haven't had any cases.

They had like two weeks and then gone.

What happened there?

I mean, either they're lying about their numbers or they somehow magically have a fix for their

people.

Hmm.

You know, you got to ask the questions.

That's what we're doing here.

Let's listen to more Russell Moore, get the rest of this.

Other than seeking to scold people.

Is there, for instance, when you got your vaccine, did you, was there any backlash or any negative

reaction from friends and other pastors?

Not from friends and other pastors.

There's always going to be some people online.

And I think a lot of this is driven by social media where people are going to suggest, oh, this is a part of some dark

conspiracy, or this is going to get someone sick.

And we have adequate data on all of that.

Okay.

I got to stop.

Wait a minute.

He just said.

Yeah.

He just contradicted what he said earlier, didn't he?

Yeah, he did.

Right.

It's because we're all secluded.

We don't have the information, but we have social media to be able to get this out there.

Folks, this is how you see someone that's got a narrative and not the truth.

Because he just contradicted himself.

He just said that the way that there's always people on social media saying these things, but we have

overwhelming data that has been posted on social media.

And if you pose an opposing view, it's taken down.

Just think about all those doctors that when COVID started, they were saying that the shutdown is going to be worse,

that wearing masks is going to be worse.

It's going to make it worse.

Here's all the science behind it.

Here's the science to show that it was from a lab.

Here's the science that shows you'll get immunity if you get it.

All that was conspiracy theory.

And now what are we starting to hear?

The very things that people's careers were ended over, claimed as conspiracy theory, now

that seems to be true.

It's amazing how science changes the way it does.

And so he's going to appeal to the overwhelming science that we have.

Which science, Russell Moore?

The science that has been censored, that was conspiracy theory and now is true?

Or are you still going to go with the science that's changing the argument?

I'll stick with the guys that haven't changed.

The guys that are saying that this was something created in a lab that is

dealt with, that you can get hydroxychloroquine.

Those scientists haven't changed at all.

The other ones that said it was so bad and now saying, yeah, hydroxychloroquine, yeah, that's a good thing to do.

I mean, there's just so many cliches that have surrounded all of this nonsense.

We're all in this together.

The other one, though, follow the science.

Well, here we're at the point where you better be thinking critically.

And as a believer, you should be empowered to do that.

Because you don't want to just follow the science, because obviously the science shifts.

What you want to do is follow the truth.

And we can see those are two completely different pursuits.

Yeah.

All right.

Let's see if we can get through the rest of Russell Moore here.

One of the reasons why one of the things that I did early on was to do a webinar with Francis Collins, director of the National Institutes of

Health, just going through every conceivable sort of conspiracy theory and every conceivable

sort of fear.

Okay.

Notice what he said there.

Every conceivable conspiracy theory.

Remember, this was April that he did this.

This was before what we now know, the things that are called conspiracy theories actually are right.

So, this is the thing he's saying that all this information is out there, but he's only been listening to one side, and he's only promoting one

side.

He's promoting the side that's being allowed in the media.

Oh, he looked at every conspiracy theory, except now those conspiracy theories are called science.

Amazing.

To counter those things.

There are some people who are not anti -vaccine.

They just hear some of the rumbles going on around on social media, and they wonder, is this all right?

Is this safe?

Many of them, I think, will eventually come around.

Yeah.

Now, maybe what Russell Moore should do is actually listen to both sides of the science and see, because

what you end up seeing is you have the scientists and you have the politicians.

Dr. Fauci is not a doctor in the sense of that we think of where he's seeing patients.

He's not a doctor in the sense where he is doing the research.

He is a politician.

He is someone who runs a company that works with government that does research.

He doesn't do the research.

They do it.

So, he's getting his information from politicians who used to be doctors, but

there's a difference there.

Francis Collins, of course, a Christian himself, a very fervent Christian himself.

I take it from what you're saying that a government push to try to reach evangelical Christians could actually

backfire.

Well, it could if it's too heavy -handed.

I think that the emphasis ought to be on what's possible.

If we get vaccinated in large numbers, the way that we actually can get back to...

We disagree on so many things in American life right now, and we're at each other's throats on so many things, but there are some things that we actually can agree

on.

And part of that is we want to be together again.

We want to be able to get as close back to normal as we can.

And that's probably especially true for people who are religious communities because we believe we ought to be

congregated together.

So I think emphasizing the positive is the best way to go.

The Reverend Russell Moore of the Southern Baptist Convention.

Thank you very much.

All right.

So there we go.

Frustrating, but yes.

So what you end up seeing there at the end is basically he ended up saying, if the government is too

heavy -handed, if the government's too heavy -handed, it could backfire.

That becomes an interesting one because the whole thing you end up seeing is the

government is now trying to step into churches.

That's the whole thing of this.

Should the government come in and force churches to get vaccinated?

Notice they always argue for a separation of church and state when it comes to the church influencing the government, which is

exactly what the separation of church and state was meant for, was so that the government

wouldn't influence the church, but the church could still influence government.

They've reversed that and said the church can no longer influence government, but government should be able to influence the church.

That's really what this comes down to.

Any comments before we get to the next article, Bud, you want to make about our dear, beloved Russell Moore?

Well, those are your words, not mine.

No, I think you have really...

One of the things that is disturbing about evangelical Christians, even those that are trying to be

biblical, discernment is not something that you just sit in the pew and apply to the guy that's preaching

at you with regards to the doctrine that he's teaching.

Discernment is a quality of life that we are to exhibit in all things.

So if you listen to this and you aren't applying discernment, you're not applying critical thinking, you're going to be deceived

by it.

There is a motive, there is an enemy behind all this that intends for you to be deceived and intends for

this kind of data to be divisive, all while being couched and slathered with noble and

godly language.

You got to look past that.

You've got to think through this.

So, yeah, Russell Moore is just being Russell Moore.

Yeah, and what we end up seeing in this is...

Here are people who are sitting there saying they're speaking for evangelicals, speaking for Christians, but did

you notice he ennixes that right from the beginning?

But it really does make me wonder, when I look at a guy like Russell

Moore making these arguments, contradicting himself the way he does, it makes me wonder how he could sleep at night.

Actually, one way he could sleep a little better, Bud, is if he just would get a

MyPillow mattress topper.

I got to tell you, Bud, I got this recently.

I got a MyPillow mattress topper.

And I'm actually looking forward to going to sleep.

I mean, seriously, you know I don't sleep much.

I've actually been getting a great sleep.

Even after all the vaccine misinformation you've been spreading, it helps you sleep.

Yes, yes, that's right.

All that misinformation I'm spreading, I sleep better on my MyPillow mattress topper.

Maybe because it's made in America by Americans.

But no, it is comfortable.

I got to tell you something.

I was concerned.

You know, it wasn't cheap.

And I was like, you know, really?

I had a friend of mine in church.

He was like, yeah, I don't know that I'd want to spend, you know, and with the promo code that we have,

SFE, I think it's like 25 off.

So it's not a cheap, it's like, I think $300.

And you go, that is a lot of money.

But if you want a good sleep, and if you're someone that doesn't sleep well, my wife doesn't sleep well.

And so keeping my wife happy, happy wife, happy life, okay?

She's getting a good sleep.

I'm happy because she's happy.

But I'll tell you something.

I have been loving that.

It is so comfortable.

And so, you know, my one friend at church was like, you know, I can't see spending that much money on a mattress topper you don't

even get to feel.

So he volunteered to come over with his most grimy clothes, sweaty, and lie down on my bed and test it out.

I just said, you know, they have a money back guarantee.

But folks, if you want to try out the MyPillow mattress topper, they do have a sale going on.

You can get it with only with the price, that pricing with the promo code.

So the promo code is SFE for Striving for Eternity.

Not only are you getting yourself a good night's sleep, but you're getting yourself,

you're supporting Striving for Eternity as well.

And so one of the things with that, with the mattress topper, I think that you get two free MyPillows with it.

If you have not had a MyPillow, my wife and I went down to Indianapolis for

the Cruciform Conference.

Both of us traveling with our MyPillows.

So our, you know, our travel, our luggage is becoming mostly just pillows, sleeping stuff.

Because it is so hard for us to sleep without it, bud.

When you get used to that comfort and you go to a hotel and it's just not as comfortable.

I can't take my mattress topper.

I'm tempted.

I was tempted, but I didn't.

That would take up the entire suitcase.

That'd be really funny.

Just seeing me like take off the, undo the bed at the hotel and put the mattress topper on.

Yeah, let's not go there.

All right.

So, bud, let's get to, and I should give away the number for folks.

You can go to MyPillow .com and slip, click on the square that says Radio Listeners.

Or what you can do is call the special number they have for

us, 1 -800 -873 -0176.

That's 800 -873 -0176.

And use promo code SFE.

And maybe sometime on a future show, I'll describe the topper.

What makes it so, so cool.

Why I like it so much.

Because I have a description there.

So let's do, there is a article from Ed Stetzer.

So this is someone who is from Wheaton College.

And so he put out an article and the title of it is Some Evangelicals Spread Falsehoods About

COVID Vaccines While The World Is Desperate.

Okay.

Just looking at the title.

Okay.

What you see is you have right off the bat a poisoning of

the well fallacy.

What is a poisoning of the well fallacy?

Actually, we have a thing for when we talk about logical fallacies.

Let me play that jingle.

It's time for Name That Fallacy.

All right.

So we're going to name that fallacy.

It is poisoning the well fallacy.

Poisoning the well fallacy is when you say something right off the bat that is to basically poison the well of

everything you're going to say after it.

So if someone makes an argument, you say something that will basically

say, well, everything that's being said is false.

In this way, it's a poisoning the well, because what you're trying to do is make the argument that everything is so desperate.

So if you disagree, if you are against vaccines, you are

trying to cause the pandemic.

You want to further the pandemic.

You could stop the pandemic just by getting a vaccine that doesn't stop you from getting it or

spreading it.

That's not important.

You're contributing to the desperation by not getting the vaccine.

And he actually makes the argument there that you would be prolonging the pandemic.

So he makes that directly.

So and folks, all the articles that we're talking about will be in the show

notes.

You'll have access to them.

So as we look at this, I almost

am tempted to read through this whole thing.

Well, I know, because when we listen to the thing from Russell Moore, that was April.

This is June the 2nd.

This is about 10 days ago from the time this is going to be broadcast.

So this is recent.

But it is continuing the same narrative that you've already heard with very little twist, but a little

more emphasis on some things.

Yeah, and so as we go through this, I mean, I want you to realize

there's an agenda behind all this, and we have to recognize that.

I mean, look at how it is.

It's some evangelicals, not all evangelicals.

It's just some of the bad ones, right?

But I'm just going to read from the article.

Maybe we'll read the whole thing in the end.

Well, I was going to say, we can kind of run through.

I'll tell you what, why don't you stop?

Yeah, why don't you read?

I'll let you read it, and then I'll stop you, or you stop yourself when we get something we got to talk about.

So go for it.

OK.

So again, this is published June the 2nd, Ed Stetzer.

On a recent call with more than a dozen global evangelical leaders, and after hearing reports from an Indian

leader, I mentioned that one of my recent social media posts on vaccines had

provoked a strong and mostly negative reaction.

One of the leaders on the call echoed the view of the group.

He couldn't understand the attitude among Christians.

Neither could I.

OK, let's stop there.

Now, is this directly a Christian thing?

No.

I mean, we've already seen that before, but there's nothing specific to Christianity.

There's no Bible verse that says, thou shalt not take a vaccine.

Now, here's a simple question, just to ask.

Are Jehovah Witnesses taking the vaccine?

No, Jehovah Witnesses would probably have a 100 non -vaccination rate because they don't believe in

doing medicine, period.

So if we're going to really look at the group that is, you know, has the highest

unvaccinated rate, why don't they look at Jehovah Witnesses?

Oh, simpler, dirty little secret.

They're grouped in the evangelical category.

That's right.

So when they're saying this, they're going to group people like Christian Science,

like Jehovah Witnesses, and others who do not take a vaccine based on a

religious belief.

Yeah.

And then they come to the conservative evangelicals and say, it's your issue.

Those that are really evangelical and say, well, see, because we've created this broad category of

evangelical that we use,.

We're going to say this is your problem.

I mean, really, and this is sad to say, say it somewhat rhetorically, they really should be targeting the

Jehovah Witnesses because those folks have knocked on my door and I've never had somebody from the

SBC church down the street knock on my door.

They're out there.

They're engaging with people.

It's a problem.

Now they did do, we got some funny letters from Jehovah Witnesses during the midst of the alleged pandemic.

Anyway, let me carry on with the article.

The idea that some evangelicals are spreading misinformation about the vaccines, while the majority

of the world is desperate for them, it's hard to understand.

Yet we have to understand it to address it.

Evangelical Christians need to be a part of the solution, not part of the problem, as we all work

to end the greatest global crisis of our lifetime.

Okay.

There is so much there, bud.

We were one hour in.

We may go for two.

This will be a longer show.

Some of the repetition here is so that you understand how widespread this is and how easy it is to answer.

The greatest global crisis of our lifetime, a 99

.98 survival rate.

Just keep that in your mind.

That rate goes up 200 % if you take hydroxychloroquine.

That's the science, folks.

You can go do the research if you're allowed to.

It's really funny.

Now, the same people that were saying this was all conspiracy theory are posting articles from the people that they work

to get offline with the conspiracy theory.

Because there's a recent study that shows hydroxychloroquine, 200 improves

if you have COVID.

During this supposed pandemic, people couldn't even get hydroxychloroquine for lupus, which I know people that

have been taking hydroxychloroquine for a decade, and they can't get it.

Why?

Because Trump said it's good.

Therefore, it's bad.

Here's the real interesting thing.

Their argument on why, because people are being challenged now.

You said this was conspiracy theory.

Why are you saying now that it's science?

What was the change?

Folks, if you haven't heard this, the reason for the change is because they're saying, because Trump said it.

I mean, Trump says such outrageous things.

You can't believe anything Trump says.

Therefore, if Trump said it, we just assumed it was conspiracy theory.

What are they saying, folks?

We never checked the science.

So when they said it was science and they had absolute fact on this and believe the science and follow the science,

now they're saying, well, it's just because Trump said it, and everything Trump said was a lie.

Turns out Trump was more accurate than these guys.

Trump was right on all this stuff, and they were the ones telling the lies.

But trust them now.

Take their word for it now.

Hey, if you attack Fauci, you're attacking science.

That's right.

The question is, which science?

The science he said before?

Like the science of his emails where he said all these things, like masks don't help?

Or the science that when he stood up and said, well, I had to wear a mask because I was a public figure and need to be able to see that

I'm supportive of this while saying it was science.

So it isn't the greatest crisis of our lifetime.

It's a flu.

Back to Ed.

And by the way, what we're giving is just science.

We're not, I mean, he's saying it's misinformation.

This is the misinformation that's now accepted.

Yeah, no, correct.

And realize this is Ed Stetzer, Wheaton College, Christianity Today, 10

days ago.

All right, continuing.

Well, and MSNBC, six days ago.

Oh, yeah.

Why is that important?

This particular article is all over the place.

It popped up USA Today, MSN.

But the reason the date's important is because Fauci emails have already been out.

Yeah, right.

We already know that the misinformation came from Fauci and the others that were

pushing this, big tech that was pushing this.

So when they talk about the misinformation, it wasn't from the evangelical Christians.

It wasn't from the doctors that were canceled.

It is from Fauci and the others who are pushing the pandemic.

We know that, Andrew.

But the fact is your misinformation works for you and my misinformation works for me.

Isn't that how it's supposed to go?

That is right.

That just answers everything, doesn't it?

All right.

Misinformation could prolong the pandemic.

Really?

All right.

Quote, we know that most people of all faiths and of no faith are planning on

being vaccinated.

Well, OK, stop right there.

If they are planning on it, why do we move forward?

Yeah.

OK, so let the few, most of them are going to do it.

So let the few not.

You know why they're doing this article?

Because only a third of Americans have.

And all of a sudden, the vaccination rates are dropping.

Yeah.

And Biden's got to get his number that he would get two thirds vaccinated in his first year.

The reality is the reason for this is because people are seeing the results of us being

treated as guinea pigs.

And they're going, wait a minute.

People are dying from it.

People are having all kinds of health complications.

And oh, the science is now saying that if you get COVID, you could be immune for life.

Well, then if I already had COVID, why should I get the vaccine?

People are asking that.

It's a good question to ask because you're not.

This doesn't prevent you from getting it and it doesn't prevent you from spreading it.

What does the vaccine do if you think you're in a low risk category of getting of having serious complications of it

like children?

Why get it?

Yeah.

Continuing quote, however, a sizable minority of U .S.

Christians have fallen into misinformation that could indeed prolong the pandemic here

in the United States and around the world.

Not every single concern is unwarranted, but many come from misinformation or misunderstanding.

Put simply, it is time for evangelicals to get their facts on the vacs.

Okay.

So here is what you said earlier.

Clearly point blank saying that Christians are the cause of prolonging the

pandemic.

But notice what he has to say.

He says in here a sizable minority.

Yeah, I'm trying to work through that.

Yeah.

So this is a minority and what you end up seeing is he's got to say that

so that he protects himself.

But the reality is if it's a minority of people, then why the issue?

And is it the evangelicals that have to get their facts on the vacs?

Or maybe it's Ed who needs to get his facts on the vacs because the facts are coming out.

And that's why they're having an emergency meeting this week at the CDC to figure out how to get people

vaccinated.

Now, here's the thing.

Remember, they said this thing was safe.

They did all this testing and it is safe.

And people can get the vaccine now that they're finding a sizable

minority of people who are having heart issues and a sizable minority

that are getting blood clots.

And when you have the Pfizer and Moderna, there's a sizable number of minority people who

are getting inflamed hearts and causing heart complications.

The Johnson & Johnson one, a sizable minority are getting blood clots.

Now, you don't see them saying, these people with a sizable minority of health issues need to just get their facts straight.

Undo your health issue.

No, the vaccine caused it because it hadn't been properly researched.

It doesn't have the years and years and years of study.

It was rushed.

And it was rushed to push a political issue.

The reality is, is everyone was told the vaccine is the thing that will get us back to work.

Everyone was in a rush to get a vaccine, to probably turn a blind eye to any complications with it because we got to get

it out so people can get back to normal life.

Rather than just giving the facts that this is 99 .98 recoverable for,

it's like almost 100 recoverable for people under 30.

So the reality is, okay, we deal with the older population.

But one of the things that's happening is people in the younger, young men are starting to have heart issues.

Younger men are starting to have, well, actually young men and women becoming infertile.

So we look at all this and we can't ignore the fact that guys like Bill Gates have been

funding all this stuff and he's been for years saying we need to reduce the population.

Well, guess what?

You come up with a vaccine that creates infertility and guess what?

You're going to reduce the number of people on earth.

Now, here's the irony, bud.

If that theory, the conspiracy theory that people have that Bill Gates is behind it all

and you're trying to reduce population and that this is a Chinese bioweapon to reduce population,

you know, it's kind of interesting.

It would be the Christians that fear God and not man, don't fear a virus that are not getting it.

You'd have all the unbelievers dying out or not having kids and you'd have the believers left.

Hey, you know what?

Maybe there is post -millennialism, maybe right.

What do you know, bud?

The Lord's going to prevail.

We just have to be patient and faithful.

Where's Drew from Matter of Theology?

Drew, we got your argument.

Yeah, Drew, give me a call, man.

Come on.

All right, continuing with Ed.

In a recent study by the Ad Council in partnership with the National Association of Evangelicals, a

majority of evangelicals, 57%, were found to have taken or intend to take the

vaccine while encouraging this lagged behind the over three quarters,

77 of non -evangelicals.

Moreover, white evangelicals were twice as likely than evangelicals of color to rule out

the vaccine entirely, 30 to 15%.

Okay, now look at these numbers again, right?

Because here again, the numbers don't seem to be adding up when they keep doing these numbers.

That's the thing I find so interesting.

So, you know, you're having now the majority of evangelicals, 57%.

Yeah.

Okay, so this is the total number.

And out of this, three quarters of non -evangelicals.

So, lagging behind is the over three quarters of non -evangelicals.

So, the non -evangelicals are 77%.

It gets confusing.

Does that mean that, you know, 77 are non -evangelicals, the rest of the country is

evangelicals?

You believe those numbers?

No, that doesn't match what we've already looked at.

33 % to 15%.

That's kind of interesting.

That's white compared to evangelicals of color.

Where the other one was 47 % to 33%.

We are narrowing down the focus here.

Yeah, exactly.

And to get the numbers to work for what they want.

Yeah.

That's how this game is played.

In the face of growing hesitancy, we evangelicals need to talk and tell the truth

to one another.

A great place to start for Christians seeking to combat vaccine hesitancy is in the wealth of information

testifying to the safety of vaccinations.

Bud, that is what we're doing here.

I mean, we're talking to evangelicals telling the truth to one another about the vaccine

and the safety or lack thereof.

Okay, what's the safety?

What does it do?

Does it stop me from getting COVID?

No.

Does it stop me from spreading COVID?

No.

What does it do?

It reduces the case if I get COVID and have not had COVID before.

The reality is I think the reason the numbers are coming down because I believe most Americans now have had COVID.

And so they're immune to it.

And the argument is, oh, in India, they're having widespread COVID over there because now all of a sudden there's a new

strain.

Well, the reality is if you actually look at the numbers of COVID over there, actually, I wish I could do this because we're

only audio.

But if you go and you look at the numbers, they haven't had the bumps like we had.

We had two major bumps in America.

Black Lives Matter protest.

We had a huge spike then.

And then after the election, we had a huge spike then.

India didn't have that.

They have their huge spike now.

So, well, that big spike at Grace Community Church in LA.

Oh, wait, no, that three people.

That's right.

Three out of 9000.

You're right.

That's who?

Oh, goodness.

That's a problem.

All right.

Continuing.

We know that people listen more readily to people like them, even when it is uncomfortable.

We need to help overcome this vaccine hesitancy for our own good and for the good of our neighbors.

I'm going to say it again.

That's going to add it to.

I know the repetitive is, is it for my own good?

No, it doesn't prevent me from getting the virus.

Is it for the good of my neighbors?

No, it doesn't help prevent me from spreading the virus.

You know, this week, I was there.

What, 65 of us that got together had a Zoom meeting with John MacArthur, and he was just encouraging us

to stand strong.

Coming right from this still standing conference at Cruciform.

It was good to hear.

And what was he doing?

Giving some details of this supposed pandemic.

We're doing exactly what Ed is asking to be done and saying, how does the church deal with it?

And I'll be listening when this drops later today.

From when this drops, John MacArthur has a sermon that he's going to be doing that

for us, but it'll be tomorrow.

But for those listening to this, when it drops, it'll be today.

He's got a special sermon he was telling us about that he's going to deal with.

How do Christians deal with this stuff?

How do we prepare for persecution and things like that?

And then they're working on creating some resources for pastors to be able to help their

congregation disseminate truth from a biblical perspective.

So we do have people, we do have evangelicals trying to do this.

The issue is, and I want people to realize this, there are churches doing exactly what he's saying, that we're

telling the truth to one another.

The issue for Ed and others is they've been listening to one side and they say, that is truth, when they haven't

seen all the evidence or listened to both sides and realized that, no, what you said was true a year

ago, you knew was not true.

Therefore, we will stick with the people who hadn't had to change their mind, hadn't had to change their arguments, because

they were saying the same thing, because it was true, true.

Not political truth, but actual science truth.

Now, I would just comment that you need to really recognize that.

These guys like Stetzer and Moore, they're not appealing to all this on the basis of Romans 13.

They may argue that, but that's not really it, because even before this happened, these guys are being

motivated by the political alliances that they yield to and that they support.

So you've got this behind whatever narrative you're hearing from them.

You need to recognize this.

This is not primarily a matter of faith for them.

It's a matter of politics, posturing, and power.

So question everything.

There used to be a time that the liberals used to encourage people applying

critical thinking and applying skepticism to things.

I find it interesting that ever since they pulled off their coup, they don't want any skepticism.

They've gotten the power they wanted, and now, all of a sudden, we shouldn't question anything, even when the evidence points

otherwise.

All right.

Continuing with Stetzer, quote, while conspiracy theories grab attention, there are

thousands of quality resources available for Christians who honestly want answers to tough

questions.

These resources are not likely to convince true conspiracy believers, but it might help the

unsure and uncertain to believe their doctor and maybe their pastor.

Okay.

So here's the interesting thing.

What has been the argument is that we follow the science, that we got to get our information from scientists, from doctors.

Who does he want to push the agenda?

Pastors.

Yeah.

Interesting.

When it's convenient for the argument, pastors should be making the argument.

Your pastor should be telling the truth so people will trust him.

This paragraph you just read is so packed with ways of

trying to understand how media tries to influence your thoughts.

And that's why this one would be good to kind of break up.

First off, he talks conspiracy theories.

So what do you immediately do?

If you're not believing it's good to take a vaccine, you're immediately thinking, well, I'd be a conspiracy theorist.

I'm a wacko.

I'm a Looney Tunes guy.

He's saying that there's good resources.

However, there's a lot of resources that were taken off.

This will probably, if we put this up on YouTube, it'll probably be taken down.

I have a friend of mine who had someone on his show talking about vaccines

removed.

We have a YouTube video that was removed by Dr. Tenpenny because she spoke against the vaccines.

It was removed by YouTube or Google because it was spreading

disinformation.

So the reality is they've decided what is disinformation.

And not doctors, tech companies.

They've decided what you can and cannot see.

So when he says that there's resources out there, well, there are resources.

But once we have censorship, we can't get to all the resources anymore.

They're being taken down.

Now, where do you find them?

I'll go over to Rumble and Odyssey.

And you can find, I mean, that's where our videos are starting to go to Odyssey where it's setups because we know YouTube is going to take all this down.

So that's what we've done is we have a backup.

And one day we'll just switch everything over there.

Well, he continues kind of on that same thought regarding the pastor's influence, quote, beyond trusting

medical expertise.

Evangelicals need to hear that vaccine hesitancy runs contrary not only to the consensus of medical

professionals, but also among their movement's leaders.

Even leaders who traditionally have at times had public disagreements with one another have united around the importance of vaccinations.

OK, wait, we're just a movement.

Yeah, well, you know, I didn't know that.

So we're just like Black Lives Matter.

Let's go down and protest.

See, this is what tells me Ed doesn't know what Christianity is.

Ed does not know the gospel.

Yeah.

Even leaders who traditionally at times had public disagreements with one another have united around the importance of vaccinations.

In a high profile example, Franklin Graham pointed to the parable of the Good Samaritan as

evidence that he believed Christ would get the vaccine.

Going further, Graham reflected on the suffering caused by the pandemic he had witnessed firsthand before

imploring Christians to talk with their doctors and get vaccinated.

Similar statements.

Let me just mention something real quick with this.

The reason he doesn't actually lay out Franklin Graham's argument is because we would then take it apart.

Yeah.

And even real evangelical Christians would go, oh, wait, you're twisting that.

But continue.

Yes.

Similar statements have poured out from other evangelicals, including Robert Jeffress, National Association of

Evangelical Chairman John Jenkins, and Southern Baptist President J .D. Greer.

The unified voice of church leaders is calling for Christians to trust their doctors.

Hey, wait, how many of those three went woke?

Yeah, I was about to say, I don't trust these guys with doctrine.

You think I'm going to listen to them on medicine?

Yeah, if you can't get right your area of expertise, why are we going to trust you in an area that's not your expertise?

No, exactly.

I mean, by virtue of having a platform, you do not get to become an expert.

But that's what happens with such a celebrity -driven, platform -driven kind of thing.

But no, if you're a Christian, you read that, you better reject it.

That's ridiculous.

At the Wheaton College Billy Graham Center, we have partnered with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to

answer commonly asked questions about the vaccines, talk to three globally known vaccine experts who are also

evangelical Christians, and have encouraged pastors to lead and encourage their congregations to get

vaccinated.

Most recently,.

This is on the notice.

Okay, look at the article.

He mentions Franklin Graham, Robert Jeffress, J .D. Greer,

John Jenkins.

Who does he not mention?

The three Christians that happen to be experts in the field.

Right?

He doesn't mention them.

Who are those three people?

Are they people that we can actually check their credentials?

No, because he didn't provide their names.

Nameless experts are typically not experts.

But you're going to partner with the Center for Disease Control?

I mean, this would be like a Jewish synagogue in Berlin partnering with the Reichstag

Ministry of Propaganda.

I mean, come on.

Well, well, well, that has happened.

His name was George Soros.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

Let's go down to love in the time of coronavirus.

Nearly every denomination agrees that loving your neighbor lies at the heart of the Christian faith.

Okay, we've dealt with this argument before, right?

Yes, we have.

And again, this isn't a love your neighbor issue.

Because if I get the vaccine, I do not prevent the spread of the virus.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I've said this a half a dozen times already.

Why?

Because these two points, folks, if you just get these two points, you

destroy every argument for the vaccine.

Every argument for the vaccine is protect yourself and protect others.

Love your neighbor.

But the vaccine does not protect you from getting COVID.

And it does not prevent you from spreading COVID.

All it does is lessen the symptoms if you get it.

Well, now you have the question.

Is the risk of taking this, which with unknown circumstance, we don't know what it's going to do

to people.

And we're seeing large cases of people where it has it having a bad influence on them, bad effect.

Am I willing to just run the risk of getting COVID?

And hoping for a mild case and being done with it?

Folks, what do we do?

But what do we do when we have kids and one kid gets chickenpox?

Did you as a kid, did you have a brother or sister that got chickenpox?

No, I was a solo.

You're solo.

Okay.

But I know people with kids that have had and they have chickenpox parties.

Yeah, exactly.

My mother made me hang out with my brother once he got chickenpox.

We all had to be with him.

Because if you get chickenpox when you're younger, you get the immune to it.

And you don't have to worry about it when you get older getting shingles.

And so my mother wanted us all to be around my brother.

So we'd all get it.

I got a minor case, done.

And that's the whole thing with it is you want to get it where you don't have,

you know, hope for a minor case and you're done and you don't get it.

So people are saying, maybe we should do that with COVID.

Just get it, be done with it and move on.

Now, if the vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting it or spreading it, you have to make the decision

individually.

Is the risk worth it?

In other words, taking a vaccine that we haven't fully vetted.

Is that worth getting COVID?

With the majority of people going, hey, I'm in an age bracket and a bracket where I don't have other

issues where getting COVID, I'll get over it in a week or two and be done.

He continues, quoting the Protestant reformer, Martin Luther, said it best, arguing that, quote, a

Christian lives not in himself, but in Christ and in his neighbor.

Otherwise, he is not a Christian.

Okay, what he's doing there is saying that if you don't get the vaccination, you're not a Christian.

Yeah.

I want people to see that subtlety.

That's the whole thing of what I want people to start looking at this stuff with critical thinking and logically.

Yeah, I mean, this is so nuanced and it requires discernment, but you do have to be able to think

critically through these kind of things because he's just torching this.

It's just terrible.

Denying ourselves is woven through the fabric of the Christian faith.

It is the persistent and unyielding calling to love one and love others, even at our

least as determined.

I think he means detriment.

Despite this importance, discerning how to love your neighbor can be more difficult than it appears.

Indeed, this has been one of the defining challenges for Christians during COVID -19.

Pastors and church leaders have struggled at times, even been at odds with one another over this question.

Now, this is a wonderful text.

In his letter to the Galatians, the Apostle Paul details at length how faith in Christ frees us from sin, guilt,

and shame.

Yet, he cautions his readers that even in this freedom, the calling on Christians is not to use their freedom as an

opportunity for doing wrong, but through love, serve one another, Galatians 5 .13.

Cutting through the webs of misinformation and politicization, vaccines are a clear opportunity for

Christians to live this calling out.

We have a safe medical option recommended by experts and supported by religious leaders

that will contribute to the holistic health of our community.

In essence, we have an opportunity to serve one another.

We can protect ourselves and love our neighbors.

Let's get the medical, practical, and theological facts about the vax, and let's

lead in the fight against misinformation.

Yeah.

All right.

So, cutting through the webs of misinformation of politicalization.

Well, wait a minute.

You're supporting the side that is politicizing this?

And see, this whole article is politicizing.

And so, right off the bat, he cuts himself out, right?

The reality is that when you have people that are, because he says, vaccines are a clear opportunity for Christians

to live out the calling.

Calling of what?

Loving your neighbor for doing something that doesn't actually love your neighbor.

Oh, I love my neighbor by helping them overcome their fear.

Well, then I don't need to get the vax.

I just need to walk around without a mask so they think I'm vaxed.

Because it's all about their fear, right?

Isn't that what it would be?

It's just their fears.

We have a safe medical option.

How do we know we have a safe medical option when any science that contradicts what's being politicized

is evaporated from the big tech?

Yeah.

You're not allowed to push anything.

Well, I mean, a safe medical option, the emergency meeting next week at the CDC for

the side effects that they're now getting reported to them.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Safety.

See, now here's the thing.

They talk about the minority of Christians not willing to get the vaccine.

They don't talk about the minority of people that are having health issues or dying from the vaccine.

And so maybe the reason that people aren't getting the vaccine is they don't see the medical benefit

to it since it doesn't protect them or others.

And this is the thing they're not looking at.

OK?

And recommended by experts, who cares?

Christian, it's recommended by experts.

Yeah.

If you ask enough people, you'll find somebody that'll tell you what you want to hear.

Exactly.

And the reality is when big tech is censoring anyone that disagrees with their propaganda,

yes, you're going to find people that recommend it.

Because it's the only voice out there.

All other voices are being silenced.

Therefore, you only have one option.

And that's the reality of what ends up happening.

You know, we'll contribute to the holistic health of our community.

Well, what's the evidence for that?

Don't have it.

I do think, and you were chuckling, let's get our medical, practical, and theological facts about the facts.

Help me understand what is the theological fact here?

Because the only one he used is, love thy neighbor, which the facts doesn't do.

Well, I'm sorry, Andrew.

Martin Luther, the reformer, said, you don't do this kind of thing.

You're not a Christian.

Obviously, it's theological.

Yeah.

Except Martin Luther wasn't talking about the vaccine.

So, that is a...

It was Paul.

Yeah.

And so, here you have another type of fallacy, right?

Because they're taking something and applying it to

another thing that has nothing to do with each other.

So, this is what would be called a category error.

Boy, you know, we've got a lot of logical fallacies here.

And when someone makes arguments based on fallacies, when people make illogical arguments,

those arguments are not true.

So, all we're doing here, are Christians to blame for the vaccine?

Well, the people who are arguing, who are putting these articles out and arguing, have all made it clear this is not a

religious issue.

So, are they to blame?

The answer would be no.

Christians are not to be blamed for low vaccination rates.

Okay.

The other question that we were asked, are Christians spreading false information about COVID vaccines?

I would say no.

It's the politicians who have an agenda that have been doing that.

We know that because the things they said were conspiracy theories, they're now saying is science.

And their reason that they couldn't believe it before was because Trump, everything Trump, bad man, bad man.

I'm so glad that we don't have someone that is mean online, because the world

is so much a better place without bad tweets, right?

I mean, the economy is crashing.

People are in fear.

People are losing jobs.

All because bad man orange.

You got plenty of people out there spreading a narrative.

You got plenty of people like Ed Stetzer, Russell Moore, who you must first recognize

as political liberal agents.

I mean, they're operatives for this whole narrative.

So, they got a motive.

They got a vested ideological motive to continue pushing this.

It is not contrary.

In fact, it is commanded.

We think with the mind of Christ.

We are critical thinkers.

Our faith is based on propositional truth.

And we follow truth.

So, yeah, you need to question these things.

This is horrendous.

But this is what you're seeing increasingly as a Christian quote

unquote narrative that you need to be doing these things.

You don't love your neighbor.

Well, you know, there is a risk.

Second great commandment usurping the first great commandment.

Don't get that out of order.

Difficult thing in your sanctification.

Certainly difficult when you come to face issues like this.

Yeah.

And so, folks, the last question we said we were going to set out to do.

Is there a direct relationship between Christianity and the vaccination to support the claims?

The answer, again, I think would be no.

They've made that clear.

This isn't religious.

This so this is something that is where they're trying to get politics into the church.

They're trying to get the church to do what the government can't do on its own.

The government, it'd be illegal for the government to force people to get vaccinations.

So they're trying to get others to do it.

The reality is the others would technically be breaking the law in some

of these areas by requiring such things because they're not licensed medical.

When I was out in Ohio, got to meet with two brothers who have a shop and

they were being sued and they're going to be fined by the state because they were told they have to they must

require their employees to wear a face mask.

Brilliant brothers.

And so what they did, they went and did the research and they basically

challenged and we cannot require a face mask for our employees because a

face mask is a medical device.

And we are not medical technicians.

And the law prevents people who are not medical technicians from

requiring medical devices.

They refused because they're not technicians, medical technicians.

And so they actually were able to continue business.

Most businesses haven't thought about saying, oh, let me look at this a different way.

Most just concede instead of pushing back and saying, we can't legally do this.

You're requiring us to do something that would be breaking the law.

As Christians, they felt they were standing on Romans 13.

The law prevents them from doing it.

How many people would say, well, Christian businesses should just cave because it's a mandate.

There is no mandate.

The mandates, it's actually there is no emergency health act.

Yeah, it's actually they have tried it.

They tried it first under Abraham Lincoln and it has been shot down every time.

This is just this is just this is what happens when you spread false

narratives everywhere and have people believe there's an emergencies act.

And people just cave to this instead of challenging it.

So the thing for for Ed Stetzler and Russell Moore is did you look at what the law says?

I mean, you want to do this theologically.

Romans 13 says you obey the law.

Well, the law would say you can't ask someone if they've been vaccinated unless you're a medical technician, you know, in the medical

field.

It's illegal.

There's HIPAA laws.

So if you want to follow the law, follow the law, the law of the land, not some medical emergence

or emergency procedures that don't exist.

That's not law.

So what we're doing, Ed, Russell, we're following Romans 13.

And we're also using good logic.

And so we're looking at that.

There's nothing in the scripture that's going to say take a vaccine or not take a vaccine.

But the arguments that are made are false arguments.

And when you see false arguments, you have to go, OK, am I going to follow an argument that's knowingly false or look at what's

true?

I'm going to say that, you know what?

People need to evaluate the real science here and make a decision that has nothing to do with being Christian or not.

I'm not saying, hey, Christian, don't take the vaccine.

I'm saying every human being don't take the vaccine.

I'm saying everyone should take a look at this and make a decision on their own, though.

And if people don't want to take the vaccine, fine.

That's their decision.

They get COVID.

Here's the reality.

If the vaccine really did what people are saying, bud, if you took the vaccine

and I didn't take the vaccine, then you shouldn't care that I didn't take it because you're protected.

Precisely.

But the only reason to say I have to take the vaccine when you took the vaccine is because

you're not protected.

And you want to reduce the chance of other people getting it somehow or really reduce the

chance of the hospitals being overrun.

And we're seeing in the whole world, the numbers are coming down.

So I think we have herd immunity.

And so we need to follow good science.

But to answer the question, are Christians to blame for the low vaccination rates?

No, I do not believe so.

Now, if you want, if people wanted to get, you know, a theological

answer to things like this and do more research, what I would suggest they do, bud, is I would suggest they go and

get Logos Bible Software.

Because with Logos Bible Software, you can pull up lots of books and do all the study

to see what the scriptures actually say about different topics.

Now, if you're new to Logos Bible Software or you want to upgrade to Logos 9, I would suggest

you use our link, It's Driving Fraternity, so that, well, you get five free books on us.

But who doesn't like free books?

I don't know anybody.

Okay, especially a Jewish person.

I love that four -letter word, F -R -E -E, free.

So if you want to do that, we have a link to a shorter link because they gave us a really long link.

But the shorter link to go is just go to bit .ly, b -i -t .ly slash

S -F -E Logos.

That's S -F -E L -O -G -O -S.

So we'll have that in the show notes as well.

So just click on that to get Logos Bible Software.

And you can upgrade to Logos 9.

They are still running the sale for 15 % off.

That is ending soon.

So you want to get that really, really quick.

So this was a little bit longer than we typically do.

Tried to pack a lot in, but I think it was necessary for us to give some of the critical thinking that's

required in this issue.

Why do I think it's such an issue?

Because Christians are being targeted for a reason.

I have said this countless times.

I've been saying this for years.

I just went to speak at a church in Ohio, and a guy comes up to me and says, four or five years ago, you said that there'd be a Holocaust with Christians

coming.

You still believe that?

My response, do you read the news?

There is a reason they're targeting Christians with this.

The left got into power by pushing an agenda that Christians are bad and all about

LGBT.

And what we end up seeing is what they get in power with, they stay in power with.

And what we have right now is they're going to continue to target Christians even if it doesn't

make logical sense.

And you will have those Christians that just want to get along with the world.

They don't want to stand up for Christ.

They want to stand with the world, like Russell Moore, like Ed Stetzer, who are going to stand up and support

the very people that are looking, they have their target right on you, Christian.

They're looking to make all Christians look like lunatics in the culture.

Why?

So that when they come after Christians, people, and it's already happening, people will be like, well,

they're Christian.

I mean, they're just crazy.

They're loony tunes.

They're conspiracy theorists.

That's going to be the answer.

And so if we don't stand up and say truth is truth, this has nothing to do with vaccine.

This is about what's true.

They're making illogical arguments to attack Christians.

That's why we did this.

I think part of what you said is very important for Christians to realize that the first serious

wave of hostility, which would be a prelude to persecution, it is not going to come

from Congress.

It is not going to come from the White House.

It is going to come from people within the church.

That's where the hostility is going to come.

You see it right now with this specific narrative of vaccines, but there is this

division.

Well, you're not a true Christian.

You are a true Christian.

The persecution starts just like judgment at the house of the Lord.

The Lord is doing this, and we know that He will prevail, but we've got to understand gullibility is

not a fruit of the Spirit.

We're to be noble Bereans and examine everything in the light of truth, in the light of scripture.

You don't see these guys pointing you there.

Correct.

Yeah, they're pointing to culture.

What's this really about?

I would rather stand with a guy like John MacArthur who's giving us scripture.

And so I'll encourage you.

I haven't heard it yet, but the message that John MacArthur is going to put out today,

go listen to that.

It'll be June 13th.

We'll be at 2021 is the message from Grace Community Church.

So let's go listen and see how scripture applies to these things.

So that's all that I have for us tonight.

Tomorrow or next week, I'm sure we're going to talk about SBC, some minor things that may

go on this week.

I'm sure you want to do some predictions.

What do you predict is going to happen at the SBC convention?

Oh, my goodness.

I mean, you need to narrow it down to the multitude of different issues that they are dealing with.

Okay.

Proposition nine.

Let's just deal with that.

Will they over resolution nine resolution nine?

Now, I think you're going to see an attempt to slather that with some walk back,

but I don't think you're going to see it revoked.

I'm hopeful you got 16 ,000 people coming to this thing.

There's only four times in history they had more than 10.

Yeah.

I'm hoping that they're coming armed with truth and ready to contend for the faith, because if you don't see that, then

there's no hope.

Okay.

So who's going to be president?

I'm hopeful that Mike Stone.

Yeah.

I'm hopeful that Mike Stone, my prediction is Elmolar.

Yeah.

I kind of think that the power structure of the good old boy network is going to usher him.

Well, people think that he's conservative.

Well, he's an adept political animal.

Oh, yeah.

So it would not be surprising.

But yeah, that is likely to happen.

One of those two guys.

I don't see the other two garnering more than a few votes.

Yeah.

So we'll see who's right next week.

But as for this week, Bud.

Yes, sir.

Bud the wiser.

That's a wrap.