Story Time with Uncle Jimmy

Well, greetings and welcome, felicitations, salutations, all those other shuns words that we use. Welcome to The Dividing Line on a Monday during the cultural lockdown. Yes, as we dive headfirst without hitting any rocks on the way into utter and complete economic ruin.

Evidently someone wanted to relive the breadlines of the 1930s, so here we go. That's what's coming, but we don't want to talk about that right now. May talk about it toward the end of the program, but right now we have story time with Uncle Jimmy.

Remember that? It seems like another lifetime. It's been a couple years. What we did a couple years ago is we um, we did what nobody else will do. We read through, um, I don't know how many Gnostic writings.

We did, um, you know, the Gospel of Peter, and we did, uh, the Gospel of Thomas, and, and, you know, the Protevangelium of James. We read the whole things. I mean, sometimes it took like the whole program, and we call it story time with Uncle Jimmy, I think.

I don't know, um, something along those lines, and, um, you know, just as a part of our desire to make sure that our audience is as well educated as, uh, possibly could be, and simply due to the fact that the vast majority of believers have never read, uh, any of those works, and so they keep hearing them referred to as if they were supposed to be part of the New Testament, something like that, and we just figure exposure to this stuff is probably the best way to let people know, nah, no, very different, um, not even close to the same world view as what you find in, uh, in the scriptures.

The Epistle to Diognetus and Early Christian Witness

So I thought I would bring story time with Uncle Jimmy back so that, uh, we could take a look at a very, very, very important early writing of the Church. This is Orthodox stuff rather than Gnostic weirdness, and we don't know exactly when this was written or exactly what, what to call it.

It's called the Epistle to Diognetus. Um, we don't know a date. Sometimes it's called mathetes because it, it's just simply written by an, uh, disciple. Um, some people have associated it with Alexandria.

Um, some people have taken guesses. I saw one guess that it was written by whoever trained Clement of Alexandria. That seems like a real reach for me having had to read some of Clement of Alexandria. This seems very different in spirit, in my personal opinion.

Um, we don't know who wrote it and we don't know when it was written. So could it be first century? Who knows? Um, most people put it in the second century. Most people would say if you push it into the third century, then there are now discussions going on in the third century that you would think would have impacted some of the things that are being said.

So a common date's about 135. Um, but for, you know, we know when Justin lived, we know when Justin Martyr lived, we know when, um, Ignatius lived or Irenaeus and things like that. We just, this is the only thing we have from this person.

Um, and we don't have it. It wasn't found in a context that would allow us to really have any idea exactly who it was, but it still remains a very, very important, um, writing from the early church. And to be honest with you, I, you know, at, at Apologia, we do, I've mentioned to you that we're doing this voices feature in our bulletin each week.

And, um, I think it is very healthy and appropriate to help our people to understand that they live and serve Christ in a long line of people who have been, um, sanctified by the Holy Spirit, who have been empowered to live lives of service, empowered to undergo martyrdom and imprisonment.

Uh, in fact, I should make a note, someone remind me, make a note and remind me of this after the class. That's what we're doing. It is class. Let's just be honest. That's what we sort of started doing.

We're doing, we're doing the dividing line seminary. Uh, let's, let's just be honest. Um, we've been doing it for a while now. Um, after class is over, um, remind me to schedule another story time with Jimmy this week and let's read Cyprian's letter to the Christians in the minds, M-I-N-E-S, the minds.

Um, if you're like me and I'm, I shouldn't confess this publicly, but, um, well, my daughter has ratted me out. Um, but I cry at movies. It's terrible. I hate it. But like the end of toy story, the, the last, not the last one that is put out, but when the, when the boy grows up and stuff, golly, man, I mean, my, my, I just, it's, it's, it's probably ragweed or allergies, something like that, but it only hits at the end of toy story.

I got no room to talk about ragweed analogies. Hey, do you remember the wedding? That's true. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. I know. But, but see, people don't, don't expect me to do that because they figure I'm heartless.

I'm, I'm cold, heartless, mean, nasty. Um, you know, all they'd really have to do is talk to my grandkids to find out that I'm really not. But anyway, um, what was I talking about? I don't know. But if I read that, um, if I read that letter, if you're like me, uh, it's really convicting.

It's really convicting. So let's do that. Let's, um, let's find some time this week. Also, before we dive into this here, um, let me just mention this up front in case I lose anybody. Um, Thursday, we are going to be joined by the Jazzy Segovia of South Africa.

I'll bet you. I wonder if anyone else has called him that I bet nobody has the Jazzy Segovia of South Africa. Seb Goldswain, Sebastian Goldswain is, um, a young man who is just, uh, an artist on the guitar.

And I love acoustic guitar. I saw Segovia in concert in 1981 at Arizona State University. I think it was 81. I would love to see if there's a listing on online someplace, um, that would confirm when that was maybe going back, maybe some archive of, of, of when great people performed at the Gammage Auditorium.

I bet there is. I'll bet there, I'll bet you if I went to the Gammage website, they, they had a history type thing. Cause Segovia was, if you don't know who Segovia was, you've not lived. Okay. So may I highly recommend you look up Segovia if you want to hear absolute artistry.

If you know Christopher Parkinning today, Segovia made people like Christopher Parkinning possible in my opinion. Um, but I love acoustic guitar and, uh, not just classical acoustic guitar. There's a lot of good modern acoustic.

There was one, one, um, CD I got years ago by I think Tim Snow, he put out one CD and I love it. And he never did anything more. It's like, yeah, bummer. Um, so anyway, uh, I forget how I first ran into Seb.

Um, but I think he attended something I did and I think he gave me a CD if I recall correctly. Uh, I think he may have come to one of the debates I did down in Durban. I'm not sure. Seb, tell me about it.

I don't remember. Um, but he mentioned me in the liner notes, one of his CDs. And I was like, Oh, cool. This is, this is great. And then in 2018, I got to speak at his church and he did a mini concert before I, um, before I spoke there at the church.

And so that was, that was a real, uh, joy to get to get to watch. So anyways, he was on, um, he did a live thing because if you play and teach guitar and you're locked down and they are locked down in South Africa, you're talking armored vehicles on the streets, locked down in South Africa.

Um, and there's a lot of places that have a lot worse than we do. Um, sadly, but they're locked down. And if that, and if you're an entertainer, so he was doing a Facebook live thing yesterday and I just happened to see it.

And so I posted on Twitter and Facebook and got some other people to watch and, and stuff like that. So I just had the thought today. And so I WhatsAppped him because everybody outside the U S uses WhatsApp.

Unfortunately, Facebook's now grabbed that too. Um, but, uh, I WhatsAppped him and said, Hey, how'd you like to come on the program? And we can talk about what's going on down there. And you can, um, he's got this, he probably got it right before all this happened.

It's a super duper guitar. He can tell us about, and he said, yeah, let's do it. So Thursday, we're going to hook up, uh, Lord willing. Um, I keep saying Lord willing, because a lot of these services are at maximum capacity right now.

Uh, we'll, we'll hook up with Seb and, um, do something a little lighter, uh, maybe than what we're doing, but that'll be a later this week. So put that on your, uh, on your calendar. I also need to see if we can get hold of, um, Milo.

We haven't had Milo on in a long time. So we need to, we need to, we need to track Milo down. I'm sure Milo has, I would, I think Milo probably has some really important insights into, uh, the, the virus.

In fact, he may have some ways of, of, of defeating the virus that no one, no one else has ever thought has something to do with cows and something farm animals. I don't know. Um, well, we'll see if we can track Milo down and see, see if Milo can fit us into his very, very busy schedule.

Um, and, um, uh, play some of his music too. So we'll see what we can do there anyway. So story time with uncle Jimmy. Uh, so get yourself, uh, you know, if, if you, you know, if, if you're stuck in, uh, in quarantine someplace, maybe you're one of those people, um, who the, the, uh, kind police officers were taking your license plate, uh, numbers and, uh, you've been put into 14 day quarantine for being a bad, bad, bad, bad, bad person.

Um, and so you're, you're tuning in cause you have absolutely nothing else to do. At least they haven't turned your internet and your electricity off yet. Um, or maybe you're just, you know, maybe you just want to listen to a story, but let me, uh, let me read for you.

I even put on my, my grandpa glasses cause I am a grandpa and, um, actually just makes it possible to read. We have fun here. Um, and so imagine this is an evangelistic letter. Um, that's one of the reasons that it's placed where it is historically.

Um, and it's probably why it got copied enough to where it survived over the centuries without a name attached to it. Cause that's what's, that's, what's really strange about it is so much of what did survive from that time period survived because it was attached to a major name, a martyr, for example, you know, that's, that is why it got copied.

My gut feeling is this got copied because it was a great tract. It was, hey man, I wish I could explain the faith that well, let me copy that and give it to my friend, et cetera, et cetera. That's, that's my, that's what I sort of figure is probably how this survived even in the few manuscripts that have survived.

Um, so this is, this is how someone in the post immediately post apostolic era expressed the faith to an unbeliever and responded to some of the objections as well. So it's not inspired. Um, but it sure is encouraging.

It's encouraging to me. I hope it's encouraging to you. I hope for a few minutes we can, um, put aside the uncertainties of our day and remember that here is a fellow believer who wrote during a period of time when they didn't even have aspirin, let alone, um, chloroquine or antibiotics or respirators or any of that other stuff.

And in fact, I'd have to look at it. If we put it 135, this was just a few years before a major outbreak of plague. We're not sure what it was because remember you got smallpox and, and also, I mean, wow.

Um, it was almost normal for some disease to be ravaging someplace at some time throughout history up until our time period. That's why I say most generations before the 1800s would look at us and go, what, what did you do?

Wow. So, um, anyway, so this is the day they live in. It's hard for us sometimes to transport ourselves back. But one thing I mentioned when I was preaching yesterday is in talking about the doctrine of justification, we see people of the past more serious about mortality and death than we are in our day, at least up to recently, because they saw it much more clearly.

We hide from it. We don't talk about it. We've sanitized it. Um, you consider mortality and your relationship to God seriously when you realize it could happen to you tomorrow or today. So with all of that as a background, the Epistle to Diognetus, and I'm reading, I'm not reading a modern translation.

I just, I don't know. You know, when you've taught out of the same textbook for years and years and years, I've got Holmes and all the others. Yeah. Um, nothing wrong with them. I'm just a rebel. Since I see most excellent Diognetus, that you are exceedingly anxious to understand the religion of the Christians.

Now I am taking the thou arts out as best I can and using modern English. So because it says that thou art exceedingly anxious, but not being, I'm just not going to do the King James thing all the way, but though that might help some of the King James folks to actually enjoy it.

But since I see most excellent Diognetus, that you are exceedingly anxious to understand the religion of the Christians and that your inquiries respecting them are distinctly and carefully made as to what God they trust and how they worship him, that they all disregard the world and despise death and take no account of those who are regarded as gods by the Greeks.

Neither observe the superstition of the Jews and as to the nature of the affection, which they entertain one to another, and of this new development or interest, which has entered into men's lives now and not before.

I gladly welcome this zeal in you, and I ask of God who supplies both the speaking and the hearing to us, that it may be granted to myself to speak in such a way that you may be made better by the hearing and to you that you may so listen that I, the speaker, may not be disappointed.

Come then, I guess I should give you the references, paragraph two. It's not all that long, so you can look. It's available online in numerous different translations. Come then, clear yourself of all the prepossessions which occupy your mind, and throw off the habit which leads the astray, and become a new man, as it were, from the beginning, as one who would listen to a new story, even as you yourself did confess.

See not only with your eyes, but with your intellect also, of what substance or of what form they chance to be whom you call and regard as gods. Is not one of them stone, like that which we tread under foot, and another bronze, no better than the vessels which we forged for our use, and another wood, which has already become rotten, and another silver, which needs a man to guard it, lest it be stolen, and another iron, which is corroded with rust, and another earthenware, not a bit more comely than that which is supplied for the most dishonorable service?

Are not all of these perishable matter? Are they not forged by iron and fire? Did not the sculptor make one, and the brass founder another, and the silversmith another, and the potter another? Before they were molded into this shape by the crafts of these several artificers, was it not possible for each one of them to have been changed in form and made to resemble these several utensils?

Might not the vessels which are now made out of the same material, if they met with the same artificers, been made like unto such as these? Could not these things which are now worshipped by you, by human hands again be made vessels like the rest?

Are not they all deaf and blind? Are they not soulless, senseless, motionless? Do they not rot and decay? These things you call gods. To these you are slaves. These you worship, and you end by becoming altogether like unto them.

Therefore, you hate the Christians, because they do not consider these to be gods. For do not you yourselves, who now regard and worship them, much more despise them? Do you not much rather mock and insult them, worshipping those that are of stone and earthenware unguarded, but shutting up those that are of silver and gold by night, and setting cards over them by day, to prevent their being stolen?

And as for the honors which you think to offer to them, if they are sensible of them, you rather punish them thereby, whereas if they are insensible, you reproach them by propitiating them with the blood and fat of victims.

Let one of yourselves undergo this treatment. Let him submit to these things being done to him. No, not so much as a single individual will willingly submit to such punishment, for he has sensibility and reason, but a stone submits because it is insensible.

Therefore, you convict his sensibility. Well, I could say much besides concerning the Christians not being enslaved to such gods as these, but if anyone should think what has been said insufficient, I hold it superfluous to say more.

The Jews, the Sabbath, and the Christian Way of Life

Paragraph three. In the next place, I fancy that you are chiefly anxious to hear about their not practicing their religion in the same way as the Jews. The Jews then, so far as they abstain from the mode of worship described above, do well in claiming to reverence one god of the universe and to regard him as master, but so far as they offer him this worship in methods similar to those already mentioned, they are altogether at fault.

For whereas the Greeks, by offering these things to senseless and deaf images, make an exhibition of stupidity, the Jews, considering that they are presenting them to God as if he were in need of them, ought in all reason to count it folly and not religious worship.

For he that made the heaven and the earth and all things that are therein and furnishes us with all that we need cannot himself need any of these things which he himself supplies to them that imagine they are giving them to him.

But those who think to perform sacrifices to him with blood and fat and whole burnt offerings and to honor him with such honors seem to me in no way different than those who show the same respect towards deaf images.

For the one class think fit to make offerings to things unable to participate in the honor, the other class to one who is in need of nothing. Paragraph four. But again, their scruples concerning meats and their superstition relating to the Sabbath and the vanity of their circumcision and the dissimulation of their fasting and new moons, I do not suppose you need to learn from me, are ridiculous and unworthy of any consideration.

For of the things created by God for the use of man to receive some is created well, but to decline others as useless and superfluous is not this impious. And again, to lie against God as if he forbade us to do any good thing on the Sabbath day is not this profane.

Again, to vaunt the mutilation of the flesh as a token of election as though for this reason they were particularly beloved by God is not this ridiculous. And to watch the stars and the moon and to keep the observance of months and of days and distinguish the arrangements of God and the changes of the seasons, according to their own impulses, making some into festivals and others into times of mourning, who would regard this as an exhibition of godliness and not much more of folly that the Christians are right.

Therefore, in holding aloof from the common silliness and error of the Jews and from their excessive fussiness and pride, I consider that thou has been sufficiently instructed. But as regards the mystery of their own religion, expect not that you can be instructed by man.

Thus, the reading through paragraph four. Paragraph five. For Christians are not distinguished from the rest of mankind, either in locality or in speech or in customs. For they dwell not somewhere in cities of their own, neither do they use some different language nor practice an extraordinary kind of life, nor again do they possess any invention discovered by any intelligence or study of ingenious men, nor are they masters of any human dogma as some are.

But while they dwell in cities of Greeks and barbarians, as the lot of each is cast and follow the native customs and dress and food and the other arrangements of life, yet the constitution of our own citizenship, which they set forth is marvelous and confessedly contradicts expectation.

They dwell in their own countries, but only as sojourners. They bear their share in all things as citizens and they endure all hardships as strangers. Every foreign country is a fatherland to them and every fatherland is foreign.

They marry like all other men and they beget children, but they do not cast away their offspring. Catch that. They have their meals in common, but not their wives. They find themselves in the flesh and yet they live not after the flesh.

Their existence is on earth, but their citizenship is in heaven. They obey the established laws and they surpass the laws in their own lives. They love all men and they are persecuted by all. They are ignored and yet they are condemned.

They are put to death and yet they are endued with life. They are in beggary and yet they make many rich. They are in want of all things and yet they abound in all things. They are dishonored and yet they are glorified in their dishonor.

They are evil spoken of and yet they are vindicated. They are reviled and they bless. They are insulted and they respect. Doing good, they are punished as evildoers. Being punished, they rejoice as if they were thereby quickened by life.

War is waged against them as aliens by the Jews and persecution is carried on against them by the Greeks and yet those that hate them cannot tell the reason of their hostility. Paragraph 6. In a word, what the soul is in a body, this the Christians are in the world.

The soul is spread through all the members of the body and Christians through the diverse cities of the world. The soul has its abode in the body, yet it is not of the body. So, Christians have their abode in the world, yet they are not of the world.

The soul, which is invisible, is guarded in the body, which is visible. So, Christians are recognized as being in the world and yet their religion remains invisible. The flesh hates the soul and wages war with it, though it receives no wrong because it is forbidden to indulge in pleasures.

So, the world hates Christians, though it receives no wrong from them because they because they set themselves against its pleasures. The soul loves the flesh, which hates it, and the members. So, Christians love those that hate them.

The soul is enclosed in the body, and yet itself holds the body together. So, Christians are kept in the world as in a prison house and yet they themselves hold the world together. The soul, though itself immortal, dwells in a mortal tabernacle.

So, Christians sojourn amidst perishable things while they look for the imperishability, which is in the heavens. The soul, when hardly treated in the matter of meats and drinks, is improved. And so, Christians, when punished, increase more and more daily.

So great is the office for which God has appointed them in which it is not lawful for them to decline. Paragraph seven. For it is no earthly, by the way, there's only 10 paragraphs. For it is no earthly discovery, as I said, which was committed to them, neither do they care to guard so carefully any mortal invention, nor have they entrusted to them the dispensation of human mysteries, but truly the almighty creator of the universe, the invisible God himself, from heaven planted among men the truth and the holy teaching which surpasses the wit of men, and fixed it firmly in their hearts, not as any man might imagine by sending to mankind a subaltern, or angel, or ruler, or one of those that direct the affairs of men, or one of those who have been entrusted with the dispensations in heaven, but the very artificer and creator of the universe himself, by whom he made the heavens, by whom he enclosed the sea in its proper bounds, whose mysteries all the elements faithfully observe, from whom the sun has received even the measure of the courses of the day to keep them, whom the moon obeys as he bids her shine by night, whom the stars obey as they follow the course of the moon, by whom all things are ordered and bounded and placed in subjection, the heavens and the things that are in the heavens, the earth and the things that are in the earth, the sea and the things that are in the sea, fire, air, abyss, the things that are in the heights, the things that are in the depths, the things that are between the two, him he sent unto them.

Was he sent, do you think, as any man might suppose, to establish a sovereignty, to inspire fear and terror? Not so, but in gentleness and meekness has he sent him, as a king might send his son, who is a king.

He sent him as sending God, he sent him as a man unto men, he sent him as he sent him as summoning, not as persecuting, he sent him as loving, not as judging. For he will send him in judgment, and who shall endure his presence?

Do you not see them thrown to wild beasts, and so they may deny the Lord and yet not overcome? Do you not see that the more of them are punished, just so many others abound? These look not like the works of a man, they are the power of God, they are the proofs of his presence.

God Sent His Son in Gentleness, Not Judgment

Paragraph eight, for what man at all had any knowledge what God was before he came? Or do you accept the empty and nonsensical statements of those pretentious philosophers, of whom some said that God was fire, they call that God, whereunto they themselves shall go, and others water, and others some other of the elements which were created by God?

And yet if any of these statements is worthy of acceptance, any one other created thing might just as well be made out to be God. No, all this is the quackery and deceit of the magicians, and no man has either seen or recognized him, but he revealed himself.

And he revealed himself by faith, whereby alone it is given to see God. For God, the master and creator of the universe, who made all things and arranged them in order, was found to be not only friendly to men, but also long-suffering.

And such indeed he was always, and is, and will be, kindly and good and dispassionate and true, and he alone is good. And having conceived a great and unutterable scheme, he committed it to his son, I'm sorry, he communicated it to his son alone.

For so long as he kept and guarded his wise design as a mystery, he seemed to neglect us and to be careless about us. But when he revealed it through his beloved son and manifested the purpose which he had prepared from the beginning, he gave us all these gifts at once, participation in his benefits, and sight and understanding of mysteries which none of us ever would have expected.

Paragraph nine. Like I said, there's only 10 paragraphs. Paragraph nine. Having thus planned everything already in his mind with his son, he permitted us during the former time to be born along by disorderly impulses as we desired, led astray by pleasures and lusts, not at all because he took delight in our sins, but because he bore with us.

Not because he approved of the past season of iniquity, but because he was creating the present season of righteousness, that being convicted in the past time by our own deeds as unworthy of life, we might now be made deserving by the goodness of God, and having made clear our inability to enter into the kingdom of God of ourselves might be enabled by the ability of God.

And when our iniquity had been fully accomplished, and it had been made perfectly manifest that punishment and death were expected as its recompense, and the season came which God had ordained, when henceforth he should manifest his goodness and power, oh, the exceeding great kindness and love of God, he hated us not, neither rejected us, nor bore us malice, but was long suffering and patient, and in pity for us took upon himself our sins, and himself parted with his son as a ransom for us, the holy for the lawless, the guileless for the evil, the just for the unjust, the incorruptible for the corruptible, the immortal for the mortal, for what else but his righteousness would have covered our sins?

In whom was it possible for us lawless and ungodly men to have been justified, save only in the Son of God? Oh, the sweet exchange, oh, the inscrutable creation, oh, the unexpected benefits, that the iniquity of many should be concealed in one righteous man, and the righteousness of one should justify many that are iniquitous.

Having then in the former time demonstrated the inability of our nature to obtain life, and having now revealed a Savior able to save even creatures which have no ability, he willed that for both reasons we should believe in his goodness and should regard him as nurse, father, teacher, counselor, physician, mind, light, honor, glory, strength, and life.".

That was paragraph 9, in case you missed the counting, but that's the key paragraph. We'll be looking at it again in a moment. Final paragraph, because it breaks off suddenly, and paragraphs 11 and 12 are plainly written by someone else at another time.

So, it just breaks off. It's amazing we have as much of it as we have. This faith, if you also desire, apprehends first full knowledge of the Father. For God loved men, for whose sake he made the world, to whom he subjected all things that are in the earth, to whom he gave reason and mind, whom alone he permitted to look up to the heavens, whom he created after his own image, to whom he sent his only begotten Son, to whom he promised the kingdom which is in heaven, and will give it to those that have loved him.

And when you have attained this full knowledge, with what joy do you think that you will be filled? Or how will you love him that so loved you before? And loving him, you will be an imitator of his goodness.

And marvel not that a man can be an imitator of God. He can, if God wills it. For happiness consists not in lordship over one's neighbors, nor in desiring to have more than weaker men, nor in possessing wealth and using force to inferiors.

Neither can anyone imitate God in these matters, nay, these lie outside his greatness. But whoever takes upon himself the burden of his neighbor, whoever desires to benefit one that is worse off in that in which he himself is superior, whoever by supplying to those that are in want possessions which he received from God, becomes a God to those who receive them from him, he is an imitator of God.

Then though you are placed on earth, you shall behold the God that lives in heaven. Then shall you begin to declare the mysteries of God. Then shall you both love and admire those that are punished because they will not deny God.

Then you shall condemn the deceit and error of world. When you shall perceive the true life which is in the heavens, when you shall despise the apparent death which is here on earth, when you shall fear the real death which is reserved for those that shall be condemned to the eternal fire that shall punish those delivered over to it unto the end.

Then you shall admire those who endure for righteousness sake, the fire that is for a season and shall count them blessed when you perceive that fire breaks off at that point. So, there is the epistle to Diognetus.

Aren't you blessed? But I wanted you to catch, and I slowed down a few times, catch a few things. Section seven, section seven of the epistle to Diognetus, who is sent according to, no, I got to keep these things on.

Man, once you leave them on for a while, now I can't see nothing. But truly the almighty creator of the universe, the invisible God himself from heaven, planted among men the truth and the holy teaching which surpasses the wit of man and fixed it firmly in their hearts, not as any man might imagine.

By saying to mankind, and then he lists what he didn't send, and then he says, who did God send? This is one of the strongest affirmations of the deity of Christ in the early church. He sent the very artificer and creator of the universe himself by whom he made the heavens, by whom he enclosed the sea in its proper bounds, whose mysteries all the elements faithfully observe, for whom the sun has received in the measure of the course of the day to keep them, whom the moon obeys as he bids her shine by night, whom the stars obey as they follow the course of the moon, by whom all things are ordered and bounded in place of subjection, the heavens and the things that are in the heavens, the earth and the things that are in the earth, the sea and the things that are in the sea, fire, air, abyss, the things that are in the heights, the things that are in the depths, the things that are between the two, him he sent unto them.

Wow! You know, I think of Ignatius' 10 to 14 times of referring to Jesus as God, I think of Ephesians 7 and 9 in Ignatius' epistles, super high Christology. You've got Melito's Sardis at the end of the second century.

I provided that quotation in the Forgotten Trinity. I should add this one in the future. If I do another edition, I should add that quotation to that chapter, though we just did a new edition, so it could be 20 years.

But, I mean, this is incredible. You know, I remember these two Jehovah's Witnesses that came to our offices, wow, back when we were on Camelback, so that was a long time ago. And I remember, I can still see this in my mind's eye, this Jehovah's Witness, a fairly brave one to walk into our offices.

I remember where he was sitting, I remember we had a paper folder right behind him, I remember that. So, the two offices, this is the front office, if you're looking out toward the gun store, it's the right-hand side.

And this guy is telling me that no one believed in the Doctrine of the Trinity until the 12th century. Now, obviously, he got things a little bit wrong because most Jehovah's Witnesses will at least say 4th century with the Council of Nicaea, but here you have such an incredible testimony to the deity of Christ.

And it's, again, would be nice to have a firmer date, but it's long before Nicaea. This is a primitive testimony to the deity of Christ, section 7, very, very important. Then you have, he sent him as sending God, he sent him as a man unto men, he sent him as a Savior, as using persuasion, not force, for force is no attribute of God.

He sent him as summoning, not as persecuting. He sent him as loving, not judging. Now, you might go, ah, it sounds pretty wimpy about who Jesus is. No, because it says, for he will send him in judgment.

So, it's recognizing the difference between the first coming of Christ, where he is giving himself as sacrifice, and then the second coming of Christ, where he will come as judge. And he says, who shall endure his presence?

I mean, that's just drawing directly from Old Testament language concerning God's judgment. These look not like the works of a man, they are the power of God, they are proofs of his presence. Now, before I get into sections 8 and 9, most of you recognize that the primary reason for my reading this is that we have been dealing with a particular promotion of a highly dubious, not shared by the vast majority of Christian historians, theory put forth by Dr. Kenneth Wilson in his dissertation published by Moore Sebeck, Augustine's Conversion from Traditional Free Choice to Non-Free Free Will, and of course, the popularized version thereof, the foundation of Augustinian Calvinism.

And it has been said to us for a few weeks as we have been listening to an interview, laying foundational issues, talking about how to do meaningful historical study, how to honor those who came before us by first seeking to understand what they believed in the context in which they lived, rather than transporting them out of their context into our own, something we have been doing on this program for literally decades.

If you go back 20 years to when I was responding to Dave Hunt and what Dave Hunt said about early church fathers in regards to Roman Catholicism, I criticized Dave Hunt because Dave Hunt was anachronistic.

He took writers back then, ignored their context, knew nothing about what their context was, read them as if they were modern writers, and then judged them on the basis of what we know today, not what they would have known, the context that they would have been in, or even how they used language at that time.

So we have been consistent for a lengthy period of time. Part of the presentation of the dissertation, and of course, as we provided this background information, just get the dissertation, it's the scholarly stuff, you're not going to be able to handle any of that stuff, you're way out of your league, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.