What Reformed Baptists Actually Believe, Abdullah Kunde, and Calls

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James White director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 973 460 to or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 877 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. And now with today's topic here is James White.

Opening Remarks and the Day's Two Main Topics

And good afternoon. Welcome to the dividing line. 877 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 is the phone number for Friends or enemies though, we will be detecting the enemies Quickly, I'm sure. And it's been pretty weird man, I I just you know, I I went away for two weeks and you know, the blog was Active, but it pretty well.

It wasn't me. Do you think some of these people think that I'm slam? Maybe they're all angry with him. It's just a trick. They don't read the byline. I don't think or something like that. I know I get plenty of email for him, too.

Yes, I know you do. I am. Yep. Anyway. It's it's weird out there but we're just here to make everyone even more angry with us. I have two audio sections to play today and on very very different topics and then we'll take your phone calls as well and your Skype calls at dividing dot line and 877 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 is the phone number I Received a link to a follow-up sermon by Martin Gale down in Brisbane.

You may recall a couple months ago we did a radio free Geneva where I Worked through a sermon. They have very short sermons down there. It's it's it's not like up here or at least certain places very very short, but went through a sermon and Basically demonstrated that pastor Gale had Misunderstood the positions that he was saying were in error well He launches into a discussion in this sermon about certain young men who have been questioning about they believe.

Later in the sermon he reads from the American Baptist Statement of faith, but I found very strange. He doesn't seem to recognize American Baptists are as liberal as the day is long and I get the feeling he's not liberal at all.

Reformed Baptist Election and the 1689 Confession

But denying original sin and I thought well, that's interesting the plagians are back. Not overly surprising but the only section I want to play of this was a description of us Reformed Baptists and and I wanted to point out that the description of Reformed Baptists was significantly less than accurate in its formulation so here is from Let's see is this January 30th.

It looks yes. This looks like January 30th Baptist core beliefs pastor Martin Gale down in in Brisbane and Here is is what he had to say about. Well, I'll just let you sort of figure out why I'm playing this as we get to it.

And I think the first now I'm jumping the gun Reformed Baptists and I'll explain the difference. Reformed Baptists believe that God chose only some of his created people to end up with him in heaven and Chose to allow others to stay caught up in their sin and ultimately go to hell.

Reformed Baptists believe that this election occurred during the lifetime of the recipient. Now, that's important. But I need to stress that their beliefs did not include Hyper-Calvinism Which where God is supposed to make the decision to send people to hell even prior to their being conceived.

Now that is hyper-Calvinism that is More than what Calvinism wanted to teach. But the the Reformed Baptists believe that during someone's lifetime God would look down and say well I'm afraid you're going to hell and you're going to heaven so I'm choosing you and I'm rejecting you.

But at least God had a chance to see what their lives were like and how they behaved and that sort of thing in their mind. The other one just doesn't even.

They're thinking about So there you go and the difference between the Reformed Baptist understanding of predestination and the hyper-Calvinist view is That the Reformed Baptists think that God makes his decree of election Based upon not just what he foresees.

Hmm. No, no, no, this isn't this is not even conditional election. This is conditional election where the decree of salvation takes place in time during the person's life Based upon God being able to see what kind of life they lived.

There you go. There's. It's the difference between that and hyper-Calvinism Which is where you choose who's going to go to hell even before they're born. Which is of course is the error of equal ultimacy, which we corrected last time, but it doesn't seem that The pastor girl was listening Since I happen to know That that program was listened to down there in Brisbane.

The world is a is a smaller place than it once was. Anything you say Can and will be used against you in the internet frequently edited. You know, I didn't mention this at the end of the last program but remember about Oh, I don't know Ten months ago nine months ago something like that when I want a certain lumpy person When they when a certain lumpy person took one of my one of my videos and then Completely changed the words that I used remember I mean that that's that's the level of dishonesty that goes on out there.

So it doesn't matter what you say, it will be used against you. And even if you don't say it, it will be used against you in the internet. That's just the way things are out there but anyhow We had we had addressed the problems here and let me just mention to to brother Gail That that I don't know where you got your information but that's about as wrong as you can get first of all as we corrected last time you seem to continue to make the error of equal ultimacy in the sense that you you put a equal mark between the divine call of salvation and the extension of divine power and grace in predestination and What has been classically called reprobation and the justice of God and bring Judgment to bear against sinners and there is no equal mark there.

They're not the same thing. They are both absolutely certain they are both a part of God's decree, but so is everything else and. So if you don't recognize the difference between those two, I would just strongly recommend you You go back over what was said on this program and in response to that.

There's a video on YouTube this past Sunday evening in London preaching at the Trinity Road Chapel in Romans 9 I from the text addressed the error of Equal ultimacy so we need to get that taken care of so you can because I know you want to be accurate in In what you're saying?

Secondly, if I may basically point out that all reformed people believe that God's decree pre-exists Time it pre-exists our birth in time and the whole point of unconditional election. Which is what all reformed people believe in if they don't they're really not reformed one way or the other the point of unconditional election is that it's Unconditional it's not conditioned upon God foreseeing That there would be something in us that would be worthy of his election or that we'd be better than someone else.

I mean, I don't know how anyone could avoid Hearing what was just said and coming to the conclusion that the people in heaven are in heaven because they were better than the people in hell. It's not grace.

Grace is important, but it's not grace. It's it's a it's us. We are better than the people now. We're gonna be a look down on them. So we are better. Because God made his choice based upon looking at us.

That's it. You guys are better. That is the very thing that reformed people are saying is absolutely positively unbiblical. It's untrue. It's it's it's false patently false and so all reformed people.

And that is not what hyper Calvinism is by any stretch of the imagination because that would make all Calvinist hyper Calvinist. Which of course would make the term utterly? Useless though. I'm sure there's a lot of folks that wouldn't mind if it was utterly useless.

Anyway, so let me let me just read to you from the Baptist Confession of Faith, which? Pastor Gail mentioned in his presentation. Let me just read to you from chapter 3 from all eternity God decreed all that should happen in time and this he did freely and unalterably consulting only his own wise and holy will.

Number two God's decree is not based upon his foreknowledge that under certain conditions Certain happenings will take place but is independent of all such foreknowledge. Number three by his decree for the manifestation of his glory God has predestined or foreordained certain men and angels to eternal life through Jesus Christ.

Thus revealing his grace others whom he left to perish in our sins show the terrors of his justice. Please notice that that was Before time itself this decree is in all of eternity. Number four in the angels and men who are the subjects of God's predestination are clearly and irreversibly designated and their number is unalterably fixed.

Before the world was made number five God's eternal immutable purpose. Which originated in the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will? Moved him to choose or to elect in Christ certain of mankind everlasting glory out of his mere free grace and love.

He predestined those chosen ones to life. Although there was nothing in them to cause him to choose them. That's about as opposite of the presentation that pastor Gail made as as you get but this is the 1689 London Confession in modern language.

Not only has number six now has got appointed the elect to glory in order accordance with the eternal free purpose as well. But he has also foreordained the means by which his purpose will be affected.

Since his elect are children of Adam and therefore among those ruined by Adams fall in the sin. He willed that they should be redeemed by Christ and if actually called the faith in Christ furthermore.

By the working of his spirit and due season they are justified adopted sanctified and kept by his power through faith into salvation. None but the elect partake of any of these great benefits and so You you have there in the words of the 69 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith the exact opposite of what?

Pastor Gale said Reformed Baptists believe where he said that we put the actual decree of Salvation in time based upon what God sees in us that is not in any way shape or form What we believe so I wanted to offer that correction.

You can listen to the rest of this particular sermon. Which also even goes so far as like I said to deny original sin by citing Romans 5 you can listen to that at at your leisure and at your pleasure and We won't be playing all of that on the program today because we have other things that we want to get to.

Abdullah Kunde on Salvation, the Quran, and the Christian Gospel

Specifically I was once again doing what I do very frequently. Trying to catch up after 19 days. Not getting to do so and I was out this morning and the iPod. That that little that little iPod nano has certainly got.

I've gotten my money's worth out of that to be certain and I was listening first of all to some Bilal Phillips who is a Muslim scholar and Then for some reason I'm not sure I didn't expect this. Sometimes my playlists aren't quite organized the way that I wanted them to be or something.

I don't know. It's sometimes mysterious, but it started playing a debate that I had seen it on my iPod before. But I thought it was a previous debate. I had already listened to and lo and behold discover I had not listened to this one, which is good.

It was a fairly recent debate between Samuel Green and Abdullah Kunda down in Sydney. I believe it took place in Sydney. I've not heard of a bill Akunda debating outside of Sydney. So I'm just going to assume that certainly Samuel Green is the the quintessential has the quintessential Australian accent and Which I will not attempt to in any way shape or form Reproduce for you.

Thank you. Thank you. The studio audience just just broke into loud applause. Oh It's nice to have friends that's all I can say. I'm gonna tell you something. What sound effects. Thank you very much anyway, I would like to to play some David David down in Sydney just said don't go there.

Even the Aussies, he's not an Aussie. He's he's he's uh, he's he's one of those other things. There's a certain phraseology that I can't use of him, but that's what he is. He's a he's an Englishman Currently in exile in Australia is is what he is, but See, he just now he's mad at you.

He's not mad. Take him outside. See now. He's mad at you. Not me. I didn't say it David. I did not say it. I recognize the difference between an English accent and Australian accent even though you must admit you've been down there long enough that you know.

It's starting to get a little dodgy, you know, we've been dodgy, you know. Let's start you're starting to pick up a little bit of that. You know Australian rules football type thing, you know, it's it's getting into your into your accent.

That's just all there is to it. I'm sorry. But anyway I'm gonna be seeing him in October. So I need to be very very careful about that. So Anyhow, what was I saying? I have no idea what I was saying, but I was it's the it's the Samuel Green Abdullah Kunda on What is is Savior of the world Jesus or the Quran?

Now that's an interesting topic and So what I want to do is I want to go through Abdullah's comments because it really covers a wide variety of apologetic issues. It is fascinating to hear Some of the interplay I found Abdullah using some of the same arguments that I have responded to in regards to Bassam remember I was playing some of the Psalms of Wadi's comments from a Something I believe I think he said it was in 2008 in Dubai or something like that and I responded to some of his biblical arguments and lo and behold, here's Abdullah using the exact same arguments and I found that interesting.

And so we will we'll be listening to that and taking your phone calls. I'll watch the The phones which are currently very quiet and there's no one it's I'm sorry that one And Skype dividing that line.

There's nothing there either, but they're both quiet. That is what you're saying eight seven seven seven five three three, three, four one I'll so I keep an eye on that as to how far and how deeply we go into Abdullah's comments here and Leave that up to you and to the amount of color participation that we have on the program today.

So I believe this debate took place. Like I said within past couple of months. It hasn't been very long down in Sydney I'm just gonna pick up with with Abdullah Kunduz comments and Respond to them like we do here on the program fairly regular.

I'll explain that point a little bit more detail as we go on. Secondly, the method must be able to be understood by a human of sound intellect. Now, I don't mean a rocket scientist. You know, I don't mean a person who knows specific Semitic language grammar, etc.

I mean an average individual like you or me. Can pick up whatever the message has been conveyed through and understand that this is an option for salvation.

Thirdly, I think now I'm gonna I'm gonna hold on just a second. I just did that wrong because I hit the wrong button and I I'm gonna have to fast-forward to it. But I'm gonna pick up on that a little bit later.

He's gonna be making the argument that basically the Christian Gospels utterly illogical doesn't make a witticence and That it's just too complicated For anyone to really understand. Now let me. Let me just fast forward a moment because I found this to be rather not humorous, but I think instructive.

Once we got to the end of the debate, he made this interesting comment about how God can be the creator without ever creating and so immediately somebody Challenged him on that and I want you to listen to his response and then remember that He's already said that it needs to be simple and straightforward.

There can't be complexity to it. It just needs to be really simple and yet listen to how he answered this question from a person in the audience.

Just getting lazy and wanted to sit down. How can how can someone okay? I didn't say that you you can be called a creator and not create something. God. We're talking about God. Now remember come back to my initial point.

In terms of if God is eternal He cannot have undergone any change. Likewise if God is the necessary existent Okay, he is self-sufficient. We rely totally on him. Everything that exists relies totally upon him.

Then he does not need to do something to manifest an attribute that he has. Okay now you're asking. Well, hang on. That doesn't doesn't quite make sense. Let me go a step further and if I lose you in the details, I apologize.

But as I'm sure you can appreciate it's a it's a complex theological issue. Oh. Wait a minute.

As soon as I heard that I started chuckling because you know, I've said this many times and This is this is a hard standard to try to live up to but I do try to my best to live up to it, but I keep looking for that consistent Muslim apologist and So here's Abdullah kunda.

I like Abdullah kunda. He's a nice guy. We've had nice conversations. I'm sure we'll have a great debate in October when I come down there, but Abdullah You in this debate really disappointed me you really did I know he'll listen to this or if he's not listening.

Somebody will direct him to it, but you really disappointed me in this debate. Because I expect more from you. I expect a higher standard from you. I mean, I'm never disappointed in Osama Abdullah's debates because that's just what I expect.

I mean Osama Abdullah's Osama. He just That that's just Osama. He will never disappoint me because that I don't. I just don't expect anything more than than what Osama produces but someone like Abdullah kunda or Abdullah and Lucy or Basam Zawadi, I I hold them to a higher standard should be Raleigh, you know I hold him to the highest standard.

So My disappointment in someone is normally reflective of just how much respect I have for them in that what they've demonstrated themselves capable of doing in the past and especially for me anyways I listen for an ability for my of my opponent to hear what I am saying and to not just respond with your standard platitudes no matter whether it's a Roman Catholic or a Muslim or a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness or an atheist or whatever I'm You know one of the reasons that I have such great respect For John Dominic Crossan as an individual not as a theologian I mean, you know when you when you don't really believe in an afterlife of it, you know We we are a million miles away there but I really enjoyed my debate with him and had and respect him as an individual is because I am absolutely Convinced that during the course of that debate.

He was expending every effort that he could to Under try to understand and to engage what I was saying and If if from my perspective That is the greatest respect you can show for the other side. I try to do that.

You know, I was I I was listening carefully to what Bassam was saying just just last Saturday evening To try to understand what his position is to try to you know, interact meaningfully with it that's what debate is all about and I think one of the greatest ways you can show respect for the other side is is is going that direction and so I Was disappointed in this debate because that the level of argumentation that Abdullah was using just did not demonstrate a Really even an attempt to apply the same standards to the Christian Gospel to the New Testament to the Old Testament to the Bible as a whole that clearly he demands be applied for his own side and so Abdullah I was I was That that that concerned me.

And this was just one example of it because You were the the main thing that really bothered me was the the constant assertion That there is not a shred of logic. I have completely demonstrated you you you made it sound like Nobody with a brief act I think one at one point you almost even made the statement somewhat close to no one with a brain could understand this or something Along those lines it was rather, you know over the top there But you know what we'll listen to it here but that that's what sort of surprised me about this was there there's there's no effort on on your part to Respond to the best that we have Rather than just simply go off.

You know You believe God became a man therefore God changed. Uh-huh Abdullah. We've we've discussed Our theologians have discussed this for almost 2 ,000 years There there were entire tomes written on this before your religion came into existence.

Have you looked at any of that or Are you just are you just basically saying well, yeah, I've looked at all of it and none of it makes any sense. Really? Can you really make that statement? That that that concerned me, but Anyways, let's not gonna get very far if if we don't.

Allow him to do the time the average person on the street. Well, then there's not too much point in it. So on we go. Why do I think that salvation is found in the Koran and not with Jesus will. In short because it follows the practices of the Prophets and and by the prophets, I mean The practices of the people in your Old Testament, okay in the Hebrew Bible and I'll be quoting some evidences for that.

Also because it offers real practical and beneficial advice. For this life in working towards the next and therefore deriving the benefit in the next so we're not just focusing on one over the other. That would be extremely silly and it would deny the human being one of their one of their lives.

And also because it allows for different levels depending on the different individuals experience capacity and Endowment from God. I'll talk about what all of those things mean. So I said to you that it follows the practices practices of the prophets.

Well, I'd say that in the in the Hebrew Bible God forgives through personal repentance prayer and fasting. The evidence that I'm I'm presenting for that is here in Proverbs. We've got he who conceals his sins will not succeed but he who confesses obviously to God.

Let me stop right there. I would just simply point out that Once again you if you're going to present and Samuel had already done a good job he had already pointed out the the prophecies of the coming Messiah the the specific text like Isaiah 53 and I don't know that you got into Psalm 22 or Psalm 2 any of those others, but they're they're these themes and If you're going to misrepresent Christianity, what you're gonna do is you're gonna pick and choose what you want from the Old Testament.

Proverbs is not the first place that I would go to create a balanced pan canonical view of what forgiveness is. There are all sorts of texts, you know I don't I do not desire sacrifice of it the sacrifice of a broken spirit of contrite heart.

Yeah, we know all those things. But the fact the matter is that there was an entire sacrificial system established under the Old Covenant that the book of Hebrews picks up and and makes a picture a shadow types and shadows of the coming of the Messiah and You've got to deal with that now now Abdullah is just simply going to say Well, the New Testament fulfillment of these things is just is just bogus just bogus now the fact the matter is That there's all sorts of ways to argue that point.

But that's where he's gonna be coming from as far as that goes, but you at least have to allow the full-orbed message To be presented the full-orbed message of what it is we believe and why we believe these things and and so on so forth and and unfortunately, that's just so rarely the case and It's it would be a whole lot easier to do that with the Bible and it is with Quran.

And it wasn't one of the things we learned from the debate Saturday night. In that in that debate I tried to establish Threads of teaching through the Quran specifically. I started off if you recall talking about Allah has no son.

Allah has no wife has no partner has no son. There's this it and I put them in chronological order in the order of writing or at least the best guess that we can come up for that Tracing it from the Meccan period in the Medinan period and It was almost like yeah, but you can't do that.

I Mean if you can't trace a thread of teaching from the Meccan period into the Medinan period in the Quran remember Muhammad is a is a minority prophet in the first. Approximately two-thirds, I mean, it's not really size wise but numbers wise but about two-thirds of the surahs.

He's a minority prophet in Mecca. Then you then you have the the hijra 622 and now he's in Medina. You have three which is renamed Medina and now he's over time becomes the the prophet who's the head of an army and the battles and the Battle of the Trench and Battle of Badr and all these things and Things change as these new surahs come in.

But the point being you have this change in his life and yet you can trace this. It sounded to me like what the psalm was saying is you can't do that. You can't even do it in surah 5. Within surah 5 you can have a complete shift of topic within.

You know two verses and so if you can't do it within one surah you certainly can't do it across the the context of the of the Quran and You know, maybe that's exactly what he's saying and that you make up for that via the hadith and the consensus of Islamic scholarship, which would really become a really interesting parallel to Roman Catholicism and its sacred traditions.

Especially as held by certain people to counsel Trent. Would be would be really Really really interesting along those lines, but anyhow.

And abandons them will obtain mercy. But he who confesses and abandons he confesses his sins and abandons them never to return to them. Fortunate is the man who is always afraid of God, but he who hardens his heart will fall into evil.

Proverbs 28 13 to 14. 2nd Samuel 12 16. David pleaded with God for the child. He fasted and went into his house and spent the nights lying on the ground in prayer. Evidence 3 from Joel 2 13. And purify your heart and not your garments and turn to the Lord your God.

But he is gracious and compassionate slow to anger and abundant in mercy and he will turn away from sending evil. And Number four let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the Lord and he will have mercy on him and To our God for he will freely pardon Isaiah 55 7.

What's the salvation method in the Quran. Precisely the same?

I Just I stopped it. How can those four or five texts be said to be a summary of everything that? The Old Testament says about salvation out Everything else and just and just say ah see here it is God just simply forgives and there's nothing about sacrifice and there's nothing about a coming Messiah, and there's nothing about iniquities and How can you just?

Cobble together a few verses like that don't even attempt to establish a common context between them or a common audience at least when I Gathered the text that I use in the debate Saturday night. I think I tried to pay some level of attention to the context.

When you can even determine what the context is it's one of the major problems in chronic exegesis as you can't always tell. But I paid attention to the order in which they were written that the chronological order and the flow and so on so forth.

I Don't see any evidence that that Abdullah has done this in this particular situation.

Sins against himself and thereafter praise to God to forgive him shall find God much forgiving the dispenser of grace. Chapter 4 verse 110. Will they then not turn towards God in repentance and ask his forgiveness for God is much forgiving the dispenser of grace 574.

Except they who repent and turn to belief and do righteous deeds for it is they who whose form of bad deeds God will transform into good ones seeing that God is indeed much forgiving the dispenser of grace and he who cannot meet the Either of these options for repentance.

Sorry I've omitted a bit from this verse because it's quite a long one. The point is the verse goes through a whole range of options that poor people or sick people may not be able to meet and so God says right at the end of it and he who cannot Meet these options due to limitation shall fast for two consecutive months.

This is the atonement ordained by God and God is indeed all-knowing wise 492. Now if we compare praying fasting turning to God with your heart and in sincere repentance To what we have here in the earlier prophets.

So Proverbs, I guess most Christians would assume was written by Solomon second Samuel. Depending on the individual I guess you assume that that's written by Joel. I'd assume you think it's written by Joel and Isaiah.

I assume you think is written by the Prophet Isaiah. They're prescribing exactly the same method as what we see in the Koran. Just in certain places almost word-for-word.

So on we'll go. Not only that the Koran itself keeps this consistent. I was trying to stop it and hit one of those things where everything disappears off your screen. Where'd it go? You know, I would I would like to bring up just just briefly in passing the Quranic text that that says that the promise of Allah to those who die in jihad To receive paradise according to the Quran is promised in the Torah and the Injil.

And I would I would love to ask Abdullah where is that found? Because again, it wouldn't have made any sense for Muhammad just said the promise of Paradise to the law promises those who die in jihad Used to be in the Torah and in jail, but it's been taken out.

That would be the end of the discussion of what a tarif means that the corruption of the text tampering the text actually means the text of change or just that. That there was a misunderstanding of the text that would end that debate right then there but that's not what it says it it says the promise is still there and I wonder I didn't come up in this debate.

I wish it had because I think it would be a good question to to ask. Assistant message.

Which is found in the Hebrew Scriptures. Okay worship God as he is and be good. It's pretty simple. Worship God as he is and be good. Now if we want to consider Isaiah 53, which I'll talk about a little bit more in my rebuttal, but the whole point of that is that the People of Israel rebelled against God.

They were then because of that sent in exile to Babylon see the whole method. The whole point of the Hebrew Scriptures is that Israel gets a law they sin they then put into some sort of exile and they return to God.

Now they don't return through.

Through men being hung on crosses. They were. Isn't actually there's something more to it than that. Isn't there a remnant that God reserves unto himself and Isn't it God who always brings them back not they themselves.

A return through turning to God.

What does the Quran say. It is not conceivable that those that have been on denying the truth Be they from among the followers of earlier revelation or from among those who ascribe divinity to others beside God Should ever be abandoned by him Until there comes unto them a full evidence of the truth an apostle from God conveying to them revelations Blessed with purity wherein there are ordinances of ever true soundness and clarity.

Now those who claim to follow the former revelations broke from their observance after such an evidence of the truth had come to them and Yet they were not asked anything, but that they should worship God sincere in their faith to him alone Turning away from all that is false and that they should be constant in prayer and that they should spend in charity.

For this is a moral law endowed with ever true soundness and clarity. So this is all you're asked to do in the Quran. Very simple worship God. Turn away from falsehood. Be constant in prayer spend in charity.

Yeah, does anyone even do that? I? Mean is anyone even worship corrected as anyone ever, you know turn away from. I mean, there is just a huge massive difference in anthropology.

Between Islam and Christianity there really really is. It's very very simple and that's the method to salvation.

I guess that's where the simplicity comes from in Jesus.

Here we go. Well from the perspective of the practices of the prophets. I the Hebrew Scriptures the Old Testament. It's absolutely nonsensical. Unless you want to say that the The New Testament God is fundamentally different to the the God that was described by the prophets in the in the Hebrew Scriptures in the Old Testament which has been concluded by Christians in the past or or I guess you'd call them heretical Christians.

It was certainly the conclusion of Marcion and all of his followers.

Why does anyone call Marcion a Christian because he says Jesus? I'm I'm going to someday I'm going to put together an entire list of all the aberrant Islamic sects like the Druze and People like that.

I mean y 'all set horrific video on YouTube of the Muslims in Indonesia two weeks ago attacking the Ahmadi Muslims there and killing them I mean, it's it's always just bloody and disgusting and horrible, but it happened and that's what goes on.

Especially at Friday the scariest day. In places like that is Friday after the imams get them all revved up in the prayers. They go out and kill people it's a great testimony to the religion, but I'm just gonna come up with a list someday.

I'm gonna start going walking down the list. You know the Ahmadis They have a they have a prophet after Muhammad and the Druze and their different views and things like that and say are these Muslims?

Well, they're not Muslims. Why aren't they Muslims because they don't believe that then why on earth do you call people like Marcion a Christian? The most fundamental affirmation of the Christian faith is there is one true and eternal God to create all things and Gnostics identified that God is an evil demi-urge.