April 13, 2018 Show with Dr. Jack D. Kinneer on “Eastern Orthodoxy: What Separates It From Rome & the Reformation?”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday.

On this Friday the 13th, 13th of April 2018, and our guest

and topic has nothing to do with the fact that this is Friday the 13th and superstitiously

viewed as a dangerous and wicked day.

It has nothing to do with that.

I am thrilled that we have our guest on today for the very first time.

He is one of the very few Protestant apologists or

theologians that is thoroughly knowledgeable in the area of Eastern Orthodoxy.

I had a dear friend, Larry Carino, who years ago

on the old Iron Sharpens Iron Radio program when we were broadcasting out of WNYG and WGBB in New

York.

He had been a guest on the program and at least one of those occasions discussed Eastern Orthodoxy.

But Larry is spending eternity with Christ now and I am in part

paying tribute to him through this broadcast today on Eastern Orthodoxy.

I hope his dear widow, Jackie Carino, is listening

today.

And I just also miss you, Jackie, and I hope I get the chance to fellowship with you at some point in the near future.

But Dajak D. Kinnear is Adjunct Professor of New Testament Studies teaching Greek

and New Testament exegesis along with General Epistles and Revelation and Director of the Doctor

of Ministry Program at Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

He is also Associate Pastor at Pioneer Presbyterian Church, which is a congregation in the PCA

denomination, Presbyterian Church in America, in Ligonier, Pennsylvania, the

birthplace of the late Dr. R .C. Sproul's Ligonier Ministries.

And he is the author of How to Grow in Christ and contributing writer to Order

in the Offices, Essays Defining the Roles of Church Offices.

Today we are going to be discussing Eastern Orthodoxy, what separates it from Rome and the

Reformation.

And it's truly my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Dr. Dajak D. Kinnear.

And I'm going to give our email address out right away for any of

you who wants to join us on the air with a question of your own.

Our email address is chrizarnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -Z -A -R -N

-Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you are starting to develop an interest

in joining the Eastern Orthodox Church and you don't want to draw attention to your identity.

Perhaps you are already an Eastern Orthodox individual and are having questions about your own

theology or whatever the case may be that may compel you to remain anonymous.

We would understand that and we will grant your request.

But other than a personal and private matter, please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

Well, as I typically do when I interview first -time guests, Dr. Kinnear, is

I have them give a little bit of a background description of their

religious upbringing, if any, and what providential circumstances the Lord used to draw

you to himself

and

save

you.

And

any

particular denominational or theological background of that family

upbringing?

Oh, well, that's quite a switch over to being

in a conservative denomination like the PCA and also teaching at a seminary that

is run by the Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America known as the

Covenanters.

How did you discover and embrace Reformed theology and get drawn into Presbyterianism?

Well,

the

thing

that

is really unusual about your background is that you trained or studied

at an Eastern Orthodox seminary.

And you did so without even being a member of the Eastern Orthodox

religion.

You attended St. Vladimir's Orthodox Theological Seminary in Yonkers, New

York.

And can you tell us why on earth a Protestant would attend and study at a

theological

seminary

like St.

Vladimir's?

Now,

were

you permitted to receive any degrees since you never complied with their theology?

Oh, wow.

Well, that's utterly fascinating.

Now, is that a common thing?

Do you know of other Protestants and specifically theologically Reformed Calvinistic

Protestants who have received doctorates or have been who have been educated at an Eastern Orthodox

seminary or institution of higher education?

As far

as I know...

Right, they were mainline, I'm

assuming.

Yes, of some sort.

Right.

I forget the details.

Well, there is so much ignorance about Eastern Orthodoxy, not only among your

average person or even average Christian, but even among those who are

academically trained and have their own doctorates and so on, and perhaps even

specialize in apologetics and might be even very well versed in

Roman Catholicism and other things.

But Eastern Orthodoxy seems to be one of those religions that is very

mysterious to those outside of its communion and probably within

its communion as well, but even more so those outside of it.

And if you could tell us something about this religion, because

there are a lot of people that would probably assume that Eastern Orthodoxy is just Roman

Catholicism with a different accent, and they might know enough to

realize that the Eastern Orthodox don't use three -dimensional statues in their veneration.

They have icons and paintings and so forth, but no three -dimensional statues.

But I don't know how much farther than that the average person's knowledge might be.

In fact, even that might be a surprise to many of our listeners.

But tell us, let's go back to the beginning.

When

did

the

split

occur

between

Rome

and

the

East,

and

why?

Hmm.

Okay.

So they

have some

kind of

a post

-millennial

hope

then.

I know, I

was

kind

of

saying

that tongue

-in

-cheek.

Now, I'm assuming, since you are a Protestant and a Reformed Protestant, and a

Reformed Protestant who is a professor at a very conservative Presbyterian seminary run by the

Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America, that you don't necessarily agree with all of

that description.

I mean, I'm assuming that you don't believe that the Eastern Orthodox Church has faithfully represented,

and accurately represented, the ancient Church, the Church of the New

Testament apostolic era, and the Church beyond the apostolic

era.

And even within the patristics, I have read a number of

Reformed historians who would say that although no denomination,

either Roman Catholic or Protestant, could claim the Fathers as their own, they appear to

have, soteriologically, have been universally much more on the side

of how the Reformers and how theologically Reformed Protestants today view the gospel.

Now, do you agree or disagree with that?

That is...

Yeah, same vocabulary, different dictionary.

What?

Well, I'm going to go to some of our listener questions, and then we'll move on to have you

go through some of the major doctrines that separate Eastern Orthodoxy from Rome and

from the Reformation.

But first of all, let me go to a listener, and

she is in Gardnerville, Nevada.

In fact, I have to give honor whom honor is due, because this listener, Jennifer, in

Gardnerville, Nevada, is the one who recently gave me

an extra incentive to find an expert on Eastern

Orthodoxy so that we could discuss this issue today.

I had been thinking of doing this for a long time, because, as I said earlier, my friend who

is now in eternity with Christ was the only person I knew who had such a background.

And so after Jennifer urged me through email to

find someone, I set out to do so.

And then fairly quickly, I was surprised how fairly quickly I located Dr. Knier, our guest today.

But we have a Jennifer in Gardnerville, Nevada, who says, Could you

elaborate or explain the role of baptism by an Orthodox priest concerning

salvation?

And what is the ability of

an

ordained

priest

to

baptize,

even if

they

deny

Orthodoxy?

So

in

what

way would that be

different?

If you could repeat, if we can even understand it with our finite minds,

how is that different from transubstantiation, the Roman Catholic Church's view?

It

almost

sounds

like

it's

closer

to

the

Lutheran

view.

Right.

Well, I obviously didn't mean that they knowledgeably or consciously were

imitating

Luther.

Right.

And

you don't

have like something as detailed as the Council of Trent or anything

like

that.

And

we

are

going

to go

to our first

break right

now.

By

the way,

thank you,

Jennifer, in

Gardnerville, Nevada, for submitting that excellent question.

And also thank you for planting the seed that this interview even

take place today.

And you have won, by virtue of your question today, a free copy of the book How to Grow in Christ

by our guest Jack D. Knier.

It has nothing to do with our subject, by the way, Eastern Orthodoxy.

Perhaps, Dr. Knier, if you could, since we are giving this booklet away, could you let our listeners know

in summary form about How to Grow in Christ, this book that PNR Publishing has provided for us today?

Yeah, it's

actually up.

Well,

we thank PNR Publishing for providing us with these copies, and we thank CVBBS .com, our

sponsors, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, for shipping this book out to Jennifer

in Gardnerville, Nevada.

So please make sure we have your full mailing address, Jennifer, so CVBBS .com can ship that out to you first thing

on Monday.

And we're going to our first break, as I said, and if you have any questions, there are some of

you already waiting to have your questions asked and answered, so please be patient.

But if you'd like to get in line and ask your own questions, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R

-N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence, if you live outside the USA.

Don't go away, God willing, we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

Hi, I'm Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, here to tell you about an

exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.

Try World at no charge for 90 days and get a free copy of R .C. Sproul's book,

Relationship Between Church and State.

I rely on World because I trust the reporting, I gain insight from the analysis, and World provides

clarity to the news stories that really matter.

I believe you'll also find World to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth that's

simply not found in other media outlets.

Armed with this coverage, World can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community.

This trial includes bi -weekly issues of World Magazine, on -scene reporting from World Radio,

and the fully shareable content of World Digital.

Simply visit wmg .org forward slash iron sharpens

to get your World trial and Dr. Sproul's book all free, no obligation with no credit card

required.

Visit worldnewsgroup at wmg .org forward

slash iron sharpens today.

Every day at thousands of community.

Centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts,

Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus.

We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong

journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement

to youths in need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future.

Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for

Christ at 631 -385 -8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333.

Or visit liyfc .org.

That's liyfc .org.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune into A Visit to the Pastors Study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WLIE Radio,

www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the Pastors Study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the Pastors Study because everyone needs

a pastor.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to

present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And don't forget Solid.

Ground Christian Books has back in stock the bonded leather edition of the 1689 London Baptist

Confession of Faith and the paperback edition of the Three Forms of Unity.

And don't forget also about their pre -publication sale on the 22 volume set,

22 volume hardback set of the complete works of Thomas Manton that you will get for

70 off approximately if you get involved in the pre -publication sale.

Thomas Manton was a 17th century giant of theology and the 19th century Prince of Preachers Charles

Spurgeon referred to this 22 volume set as a mountain of sound theology so

you should take advantage of this amazing pre -publication sale by going to solid -ground

-books .com solid -ground -books .com.

These are 22 volumes in hardback, smith's stone on acid -free paper, the finest of binding

and publishing that you can find.

So we hope that you take advantage of that and please mention Chris Arns and Iron Sharpens Iron Radio when you contact solid

-ground -books .com.

We are now back with our guest today who is one of the few thoroughly knowledgeable

Protestants on the area of Eastern Orthodoxy.

His name is Dr. Jack D. Kinnear.

He is adjunct professor of New Testament studies and the, let's see here, he's

teaching Greek and New Testament exegesis along with general epistles and revelation and director of the doctor of ministry

program at Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

He's also the associate pastor at Pioneer Presbyterian Church in Ligonier, Pennsylvania.

We are discussing Eastern Orthodoxy, what separates it from Rome and the Reformation.

Just out of curiosity, Dr. Kinnear, how far from where

Pioneer Presbyterian Church is was the actual launching of Ligonier

Ministries which eventually made its way to Florida.

Okay.

Yeah, and this

is just

one minor detail.

Oh, okay.

And I forgot to ask you, well, I should have said I forgot to get an answer from

you on the second part of Jennifer's question.

Jennifer from Gardnerville, Nevada.

She says, what is the ability of an ordained priest to baptize even if they deny

Orthodoxy?

For instance, I know that the Roman Catholic Church accepts as valid the baptism

of even Protestants as long as it's done in the triune formula,

the Trinity, in the name of the Trinity.

What's the situation there?

And I assume that's what Jennifer is, where she's, what she's getting at in regard to this question.

But if you could answer as best

as you can.

Wow.

So

they

would also baptize or rebaptize, depending upon how you want to look at it, a

Roman Catholic convert to Eastern Orthodoxy.

Okay.

And we have a similar question from Ronald in Eastern Suffolk

County, Low Island.

Ronald says, does the Church of Rome recognize the Eucharist of the Eastern Orthodox,

and do the Eastern Orthodox permit non -Orthodox people

to receive their Eucharist?

I

have not

followed

that.

However...

We

have

Ellie

Mae.

Ellie Mae

was

the

name

of my first crush as a young boy.

She was Ellie Mae on the Beverly Hillbillies.

And I could vividly remember Ellie Mae Clampett.

But the question that we have from Ellie Mae in Chandler, Arizona, not the same Ellie Mae,

dear Mr. Kinnear, I'm sorry, dear Mr. Arnzen and Professor Kinnear, I can't tell you how much I

appreciate the topic the two of you are discussing today, since it seems very few individuals want to,

or are equipped to discuss Eastern Orthodoxy.

Regarding the history of the Eastern Orthodox Church, is it possible to track significant

change in its theology and doctrine since the Great Schism, and why or why

not?

And she has a second part of that question, so if you want to begin with the first.

Again, you don't have the

precise creed that

we have in the West.

Yes.

Well, thank you very much Ellie Mae in Chandler, Arizona.

Please make sure we have your full mailing address in Chandler, Arizona, because you have also won a free copy of How

to Grow in Christ by our guest Jack D. Kinnear.

And once again, this booklet has nothing to do with Eastern Orthodoxy.

It just happens to be written by our guest today, and PNR Publishing was kind enough to provide us

with these copies to give away.

Let's see here, we have Linda in Hilltop

Lake, Texas.

Hilltop Lakes, Texas.

I am so looking forward to hearing the rest of this program.

I have a precious nephew who flipped from Pentecostal to strict Roman

Catholic to Eastern Orthodox.

Do you have any advice on counsel to him in regard to these moves that he

has

made?

Well,

we're

going

to our

midway

break

right

now,

and

in

fact

Gordy

in

Mechanicsburg,

Pennsylvania actually just asked a very similar question.

Perhaps when we return, if you have any additional things that you think are drawing

factors that are drawing those who are non

-orthodox into that religion and actually converting to that religion.

Gordy in Mechanicsburg asks, in your estimation, what is the attraction to Eastern

Orthodoxy that some have seemingly abandoned the faith even among the Reformed camp?

Perhaps you could even especially focus on those who have

left historic Reformed Protestantism for Orthodoxy when we return.

But if anybody else would like to join us, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

Iron Sharpens Iron welcomes Solid Rock Remodeling to our family of sponsors.

Serving South Central Pennsylvania, Solid Rock Remodeling is focused on discovering,

understanding, and exceeding your expectations.

They deliver personalized project solutions with exceptional results.

Solid Rock Remodeling offers a full range of home renovations, including kitchen and bath

remodeling, decks, porches, windows and doors, roof and siding, and

more.

For a clear, detailed, professional estimate, call this trustworthy team of problem solvers

who provide superior results that stand the test of time.

Call Solid Rock Remodeling at 717 -697 -1981.

717 -697 -1981.

Or visit solidrockremodeling .com.

That's solidrockremodeling .com.

Solid Rock Remodeling, bringing new life to your home.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia,.

For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God?

Or am I trying to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, Pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church, and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the Apostle's priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be

vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and

love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts, or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750.

That's 508 -528 -5750.

Or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV program entitled,

Resting in Grace.

You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org, that's providencebaptistchurchma .org,

or even on sermonaudio .com.

Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor Iron Shopping's Iron Radio.

Tired of box store Christianity, of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert?

Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship?

And how about the preaching?

Perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.

Well, there's good news.

Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience,

featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word.

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.

Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times.

631 -929 -3512.

Or check out their website at wrbc .us.

That's wrbc .us.

I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in -depth study.

Used by pastors, scholars, and everyday readers, the NASB is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable Bible

translation.

The NASB offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages which the NASB is known for.

The NASB is available in many editions like a topical reference Bible.

Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy, the new topical reference Bible includes contemporary topics

relevant to today's issues.

From compact to giant print Bibles, find an NASB that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible

.com.

Whichever edition you choose, trust, discover, and enjoy the NASB for yourself today.

Go to nasbible .com.

That's nasbible .com.

Transcription by CastingWords

Transcription by CastingWords

Transcription by CastingWords

Transcription by CastingWords

Transcription by CastingWords.

Transcription by CastingWords.

Transcription by CastingWords.

Transcription

by

CastingWords.

Transcription by CastingWords.

Transcription by CastingWords.

Transcription by CastingWords.

Valley Bible Book Service.

Todd and Patty specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them

affordable to everyone.

Since 1987, the family -owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available Christian books

and Bibles at the best possible prices.

Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available because, frankly, much of what

is being printed is not worth your time.

That means you can get to the good stuff faster.

It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and

otherwise faith -insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.

Their website is cvbbs .com.

Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work

in service to you, the Church, and to Christ.

That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at cvbbs .com.

That's cvbbs .com.

Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about.

Them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

And you can call cvbbs .com at their toll -free number Monday through Friday from 10 a .m. to 4

.30 p .m. Eastern Time

at 800 -656 -0231.

800 -656 -0231.

If no one answers when you call, call back the next day, or you can obviously use the Internet, cvbbs

.com, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, cvbbs .com.

If you purchase $50 or more worth of merchandise from cvbbs .com, you will receive, if

you mention Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio, a free copy of the book, The Salt of the Covenant, or

The Biblical Doctrine of Salvation.

This was first published in 1908 and reprinted with revisions by Sovereign Grace Union of

London in 1932.

And this is a modern -day edition of this beautiful book retailing for $22.

It's 271 pages, hardback and shrink -wrapped.

You will get that for free if you mention Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio when purchasing $50 or more.

Worth of merchandise at cvbbs .com.

Please tell Todd and Patty Jennings, the owners of cvbbs .com, that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen

on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

And we thank Todd and Patty Jennings for always shipping out our listeners their free books, Bibles, DVDs,

CDs, and other things to our listeners when they win those items by submitting questions to our

guests.

Before I return to our guest today, Dr. Jack D. Kinnear on our subject matter of

Eastern Orthodoxy, I just have a couple more announcements to make.

The Spirit of the Age and the Age of the Spirit is the theme for this year's Philadelphia Conference on Reform

Theology.

It's going to be held at two locations, neither of which is Philadelphia.

We have the first location where it's going to be held starting today, actually,

through the 15th at the First Christian Reform Church of Byron Center, Michigan.

The second location where it will be held, where I plan to be, April 27th through the 29th, will be

at the Proclamation Presbyterian Church, which is in the same denomination as our guest today, Jack D. Kinnear,

the PCA, Presbyterian Church in America.

That's in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania, a lot closer to Philadelphia, a lot closer to me as well.

The speakers at this Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology include such

names as Daniel Aiken, Richard Gaffin, Daniel Hyde, the most powerful preacher on the planet Earth

alive today, I believe, Conrad M. Bayway, pastor of Kivuata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa,

who is my guest on Wednesday of this week, Richard Phillips

of Second Presbyterian Church in Greenville, South Carolina, who we've had on this program many times, Jonathan Master and David

Murray, who have both been on this program, and Scott Oliphant, the only of the whole roster that I have not

yet interviewed, and I look forward to interviewing him if at all possible.

If you'd like to register, go to AllianceNet .org, AllianceNet .org for either or both of those

locations, and if you register, please mention that you heard about the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology from

Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Last but not least is the least comfortable or the most uncomfortable time of the

program.

That's when I have to beg you for money.

As many of you know who have listened to this program going back to 2005, when I used to broadcast out

of WNYG and WGBB radio in New York, I never, for years,

made one single appeal publicly for a donation.

But my advertisers, who spend their hard -earned money keeping this program on the air, have urged me for a long time

to make public appeals because the need is urgent if you want this program to remain on the air.

I finally caved in to their pressure, so I've been daily making these public appeals for a number of months now,

and if you love this program, you don't want it to go away, you share the free MP3s with others, you are

greatly edified and benefited by the topics and guests that we offer on this program, then please

do whatever you can financially to help Iron Sharpens Iron Radio remain on the air.

Just go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now,

and you can instantly donate through a debit or credit card.

If you would rather use snail mail and send in a check the old -fashioned way, an address will appear where you can mail

a check made payable to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio when you click support at ironsharpensironradio .com.

If you want to advertise with us, as long as whatever it is that you do or want to promote is

compatible with the theology we express here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, you don't have to believe exactly as I do, but whatever

it is you're promoting needs to be compatible at the very least with what we believe, or it must be

religiously neutral in some way, then please send us an email to chrisarnsen at

gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line, whether it's your church, parachurch ministry, your business, your professional

practice, or special event, we would love to help you launch an ad campaign as long as what you

are doing is compatible with what we believe, because we surely could use the advertising dollars.

That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line, that's also the email address where you can send

in a question to our guest Dr. Jack D. Kinnear on the subject of Eastern Orthodoxy,

that's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

For those of you who just tuned us in, Dr. Jack D. Kinnear is adjunct professor of New Testament studies teaching Greek

and New Testament exegesis, along with general epistle and revelation at

the Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

He's also associate pastor at Pioneer Presbyterian Church, a PCA congregation or Presbyterian

Church in America congregation in Ligonier, Pennsylvania.

He's the author of How to Grow in Christ and also a contributing writer to Order in

the Office Essays Defining the Roles of Church Offices.

Today we are addressing Eastern Orthodoxy, what separates it from Rome and the Reformation.

Before the break, another listener asked about those things that seem to attract non

-Orthodox individuals into the religion of Eastern Orthodoxy.

I can add something specifically myself, and perhaps you can comment on it.

I was raised Roman Catholic, but my father's side of the family was Episcopalian

until my father, when I was in my mid -teens, converted to Catholicism.

But the Episcopalian side of my family,

the church that my grandmother, my father's mother, attended

right in the town where I was raised, St. Mary's Episcopal Church, the priest there,

because of the liberalism that has plagued the Episcopal Church, and because of the fact

that he is an Oxford movement Episcopalian, he is a lot more Roman Catholic

than Protestant.

But for some reason, he is very seriously considering converting and bringing

the church into Eastern Orthodoxy rather than into Rome.

But if you could comment on that situation, what kind of relationship does Eastern Orthodoxy have

with the Anglican and Episcopal Church in regard to welcoming converts, especially converts in the

clergy?

What needs to be abandoned by them, and so on, and what is accepted by the Eastern Orthodox when such a conversion

takes place?

And also, give us some other reasons why you people are leaving what we would call

historically and biblically Orthodox Protestant groups in favor

of

Eastern

Orthodoxy.

And

hence,

it

was

a

lot

easier

for Hank

Anagraff,

for

instance,

to

become

an

Eastern

Orthodox

person.

They're

probably,

as

far

as I

can

see, unless there's some Eastern Orthodox programs that I'm totally ignorant of, the Roman Catholic

Church seems to be doing a more aggressive job using the media to not only

draw those that left there back, but also to lead in new converts from Protestantism and other

places into the Roman Catholic Church.

I don't know of any Eastern Orthodox television program,

for

instance,

that

is doing that.

Oh, so

when

somebody

leaves the Eastern Orthodox Church, are you saying

that even families aren't typically in an uproar, like a Roman Catholic family might be?

By

the way,

thank

you Gordy in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, and since you are so close to

CVBBS .com in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, why don't you swing by on Monday and pick

up your free copy of How to Grow in Christ by Jack D. Kinnear, which will be waiting there for you.

And please remember that this booklet has nothing to do with Eastern Orthodoxy, it just happens to be written by our guest

today, Jack D. Kinnear.

We have Bebe in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who has a question for you.

She wants to know if liberalism has invaded Eastern Orthodoxy with the

same magnitude as it has Rome.

No.

Oh,

you

know,

something

I forgot

to have you answer a question that I asked in regard

to my grandmother's Episcopal priest who is considering conversion to

Orthodoxy, and in fact this priest was my father's priest before he became a Roman

Catholic.

What will he have to abandon by becoming an Eastern Orthodox priest?

I mean, keep in mind, he is not a 39 Articles Protestant Episcopal minister.

He is a high church, Oxford movement, Tractarian,

Puseate Episcopalian.

He's very Romish, but very conservative, which is why he wants to leave the Episcopal

Church USA.

He is just disgusted by the apostasy and liberalism, and instead of becoming a 39

Articles Anglican or becoming a Roman Catholic, he is considering Eastern Orthodoxy.

So do you know specifically what he might have to give up as a high church Episcopalian entering into

Eastern Orthodoxy?

From

what

you're...

Right.

Now, does he have

to have an identical Eastern Orthodox

liturgy, or

can

he

incorporate

some

of

his

Episcopalian

liturgy

in

there?

No,

no, no.

Okay.

We have...

Oh, by the way, you have also won a free copy of How to Grow in Christ by Jack D. Kinnear.

So please make sure we have your full mailing address so we could ship that out to you at no charge to you

or to us.

Compliments of not only PNR Publishing, but also compliments of cvbbs .com.

We have John in Bangor, Maine, who asks, I have two questions.

The first is I had heard that one of the main reasons for the divide between East and

West came about over a difference of opinion on what day to

celebrate Easter.

And the second question is, which is much more important, what of the other

major dogmas of Rome do the Eastern Orthodox either accept or reject?

I am thinking first and foremost of the sacrament of penance

and purgatory, which is attached to

it.

Oh,

the

Eastern

Orthodox deny original sin.

Oh, but it's

still more of a Pelagian understanding.

Huh.

So they're more Pelagian in

that area.

Why do they call him beloved?

So they actually accept him as a father.

You mentioned they deny the immaculate conception and assumption.

What about the perpetual sinlessness?

Hmm.

And when

we

come

back,

there's

just a

couple

of

things

that

we

still

didn't

have answered in regard to John from

Bangor, Maine's question.

And this is our final break.

It's going to be a much quicker break.

If you want to join us on the air with a question of your own, do so now or forever hold your peace because we're rapidly running out of time.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

God willing, we'll be right back after these messages.

I am Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, here to tell you about an exciting offer from World

Magazine, my trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.

Try World at no charge for 90 days and get a free copy of R .C. Sproul's book,

Relationship Between Church and State.

I rely on World because I trust the reporting.

I gain insight from the analysis and World provides clarity to the news stories that really matter.

I believe you'll also find World to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth that's

simply not found in other media outlets.

Armed with this coverage, World can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community.

This trial includes bi -weekly issues of World Magazine, on -scene reporting from World Radio,

and the fully shareable content of World Digital.

Simply visit wng .org forward slash Iron Sharpens

to get your World trial and Dr. Sproul's book all free, no obligation with no credit

card required.

Visit World News Group at wng .org forward

slash Iron Sharpens today.

Have you been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio?

We remain on the air because of our faithful sponsors and because of listeners like you.

There are four ways you can help.

First, do you know potential sponsors who may wish to advertise their goods or services on Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio?

Second, whenever possible, purchase the products or use the services that our sponsors advertise

and then let them know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Thirdly, you can also donate to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio by going to our website at

ironsharpensironradio .com and click support at the top of the page.

But most importantly, keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in your prayers.

We hope that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio blesses.

You for many years to come.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to

present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune into A Visit to the Pastor's Study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 pm Eastern Time on WLIE Radio,

www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for A Visit to the Pastor's Study because everyone.

Needs a pastor.

And if you call in to A Visit to the Pastor's Study, please tell the host, Pastor Bill Shishko, that you

heard about his program from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and everybody on the roster,

including myself here at First Love Radio, are delighted that A Visit to the

Pastor's Study is going to be added to the program lineup in the very near future, God willing.

So I just wanted to give my big welcome again to Pastor Bill Shishko.

In fact, I'm wondering, Dr. Kinnear, do you know Pastor Bill Shishko?

Because I know that you used to be in the OPC as well.

Oh yes, I know him.

He's a wonderful man.

Oh yeah, he's a dear brother of mine.

I've known him since the 1980s, and we have maintained a friendship all these years.

Going back to John in Bangor, Maine, I believe it was, he asked if

the day that we celebrate Easter, the difference that the East and West has over that, was

a cause at all of the split between

the

two.

Well,

John

in

Bangor,

Maine,

please

make

sure

you

give

us

your

full

mailing

address

because

you've also won a free copy of the booklet, How to Grow in Christ, by our guest Jack D. Kinnear.

And again, this has nothing to do with Eastern Orthodoxy, it just happens to be a book written by our guest.

We have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who says, you've already

mentioned that the Eastern Orthodox do not accept the Immaculate Conception

of Mary or the Assumption of Mary, but what about her perpetual sinlessness and perpetual

virginity?

Oh, sure.

Now, did she become sinless?

Right.

Do they believe that she was

always obedient,

though,

that she

never...

She was

always

obedient,

yes.

Okay.

Oh,

you're

saying

that

they do not, in their devotion, pray to Mary?

No, no, no.

Really?

How would they pray differently?

So, it'd be basically like they would pray to any other saint, perhaps?

Yes.

Okay.

You know, it's amazing that they have not become more liberal with that mindset.

That seems like a huge gateway to liberalism, that whole theological perspective.

Well, they

don't accept

the ecumenical council...

Now, having said that...

It's not going to happen.

It's against the tradition of the Church, you know.

The thing that is paradoxical about what you're saying about Eastern Orthodoxy is there

is a strictness that exceeds even Rome, on the one hand, and yet a

vagueness and ambivalence, on the other hand, that those two things usually don't go hand in hand.

How much of a difference exists amongst clergy and theologians within Eastern

Orthodoxy?

Are there ivory tower arguments that go on constantly?

Are there differences at all that we see between even congregations?

Because of the fact that they're not as confessional and creedal as either Rome or

the Reformation and its heirs, it seems like that would also be an open door to a lot of

division, even if they get along in spite of those divisions.

What

about

those opinions that arise in

the minds

of

different...

We

have,

since

you

just

were

mentioning

some

of

the

patristics,

we have Eric from Champaign, Illinois.

He asks, are there any works of Chrysostom that you know of that have not yet been

translated into English?

He has about three questions, and that's the first about Chrysostom.

Okay, I don't know if you

can answer these other two questions, because they're both about Chrysostom or Chrysostom, but he says, besides his deception of

his friend Basil, do you know of any other instances in which

Chrysostom advocated trickery or ends justifying the means?

Oh, no,

again,

that's...

We

have...

Oh, by

the

way,

Eric,

you've also

won a

free

copy of How to Grow in Christ by Jack D. Kinnear.

Make sure we have your full mailing address in Champaign, Illinois.

We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who says, I

have heard that the Eastern Orthodox believe that the redemption

of sinners was accomplished at the incarnation and not on the cross.

Is this true?

We

have

Christopher

in

Suffolk

County,

Long

Island,

New

York, and he asks, is there a major distinction

between the Coptic and Oriental Orthodox and the Eastern Orthodox?

Well,

by the way,

both

of

our last listeners that asked questions, you are each getting a free copy of How to Grow in Christ if you

give us your full mailing addresses.

Well, I'd like you, in about three minutes time, just to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts

and

minds

of

our

listeners

today.

And I'm

assuming,

from what

you've just

said, that

there is great reason for concern in our day and age for rampant ecumenism, where

theology seems to be dismissed as either rather

unimportant or at least not nearly as important as quote -unquote friendships and

politeness and so on, where people don't really blink an eye about

someone becoming Eastern Orthodox or leaving it.

This is something that we should be very concerned about, isn't it?

Amen, and of course we have to be clear when someone believes a false gospel.

We have to, out of love, make them aware of that, regardless of how they may react.

Well, I want to make sure that our listeners have all of your contact information.

I know that the church where you pastor, Pioneer Presbyterian Church in Ligonier, Pennsylvania, has a website

which is pioneerpca .org, pioneerpca, for presbyterianchurchinamerica

.org, and also Reform Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania,

where you serve on the faculty.

That website is rpts .edu, rpts

.edu, and of course if you want to purchase the book that we have been discussing

today, or that we've been giving away, I should say, How to Grow in Christ by Jack D. Kinnear,

you can order that through our sponsors, CVBBS .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service,

CVBBS .com.

It is a publication of PNR Publishing, and CVBBS .com has

thousands of books in stock by PNR Publishing, and if they don't have that

one, they will order it for you.

Well, I want to thank you so much, Dr. Kinnear, for being my guest.

I look forward to you returning to our program.

By the way, do you have any further contact information that you care to share?

Okay, great, and I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write in questions today, and

perhaps even more especially Jennifer there in Gardnerville, Nevada, for coming up with

the excellent suggestion to cover Eastern Orthodoxy on Iron Radio.

I hope you all have a blessed and safe and joyful weekend and Lord's Day, and I hope

you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.