Emilio Ramos My Guest As We Discuss the Need for Christians to Be Disciplined of Mind

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:33

Greetings and welcome to The Dividing Line. It is a Tuesday. Yeah, Tuesday afternoon 17th of November Greetings and welcome.

00:43

The camera is all bumped and changed and moved so we can make room for You know, we have we have we have in -studio guests constantly.

00:53

Well, okay a couple times a year and today We have a gentleman

01:01

Who is a very patient gentleman He's patient because he's put up with me.

01:08

How long did I stay with you? It's about five days. I did but an eternity, but it's

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Not an eternity at his house. And I know what you're talking about there brother. Yep later and later in the program

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We will be talking about Pig sacrifice and bird offerings at the

01:26

Ramos home and zombie apocalypse Yes, yes, but Emilio Ramos from from Texas Now I forgot to ask you how much can we tell people about why you're here?

01:39

Very little actually we're trying to you know, you know the Christian secrets, right? Yes Right, right.

01:44

We're working. I think she'll be done and open all should be done in secret, isn't it? We're working on a project together Yes. Yes, that's it.

01:51

That's it So we're working on a project together and We just got done working on a project together because there's a programs over we're kicking him out of here and so he's gonna be flying back to To Texas where when they brought me out that was

02:11

May wasn't it? Yeah Brought me out so that I could experience my first tornado warnings

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And tornado watches and going to the middle of a house and And hearing sirens and doing all sorts of fun stuff like that.

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So I really appreciate you're doing that for me Oh, you were under the care of a different church at that time. Oh, well

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We we had one come pretty close at your place If I recall the the person you're actually famous for because no one knows

02:45

Emilio, but you are married to Trish So that's your claim to fame. She's usually sitting in seats like this.

02:52

Yes. Yes She and Lily we're in the bathtub, okay, so That that means the storm was close that yeah.

03:02

Yeah, she's always in the bathtub. She just likes to hang out in there No, no, no Not with the dog

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And you know like this So no, so yeah, we had we had a great interesting

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Time while I was there and I also Destroyed myself

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First morning. I was there wasn't it? I think it was the first morning you were there Yeah, and it was very early and well early for you 11 o 'clock in the morning is early for you

03:33

Yeah, so I'm up at you know while you're sleeping. That's right Working and early early to bed early to rise

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Is advice that you've never heard so I got up early I went running you thought you 472 meters

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Before I discovered that Dallas roads have seams in them Uh -huh, and one of those seams grabbed the front end of my left sneaker tore it still torn well, of course still torrents days not like I repair or something and threw me on the ground with the tremendous force and So I come back and I'm bleeding all over the place and and I'm trying to get this stuff cleaned up and you know

04:19

Time's passing by man. They gotta get up someday. I mean, you know, it's getting later and later and you know

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So finally, I'm you know, I know what's gonna happen as soon as I knock on the door is Lily's gonna start barking Which of course she did and so eventually

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Emilio comes out and he's like, you know, there's this guy You know bleeding all over the place.

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Yeah. Yeah the zombie apocalypse That was fun found out when

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I got back I broke my elbow and then we had we had a whole conference that day Truth and love conference.

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Yeah. Yeah bandaged up the elbows best I could still got a bunch of blood all over the and you ruin your shirt from no

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I managed to get all that blood out. Thankfully cleaned it out. I cleaned it up. I cleaned it up. Yep. Good. Yep, but No, we still ended up having a good time despite the tornadoes and despite the fall

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I still do you remember how I forget how many miles I rode when I was there? But I wrote a fair fair number of miles.

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Yeah out there going out toward that Panther Creek, yeah, yeah

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Not as fun as me driving by and seeing you ride that was that was surreal

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And then we had some interesting events there too the latent flowers debate yes, that was

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That was one of the things we did while we were there I think the most memorable part of that debate for me was that I got to text you what you were debating

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Thank you, and even more important was or more amazing was that you responded Yes, I am connected yes, yes, yes

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Don't worry. It's it's on silent this time because January's here and and is doing very well.

06:00

Thank you for everyone. So Well good now, so tell us a little about the church there real quick well, the church is called

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Heritage Grace Community Church, Frisco, Texas and Our churches that sort of North North Dallas Just north of Plano.

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It's a growing community. I mean, it's exploding the growth as they finish that corner yet No, they have not near near the sonic.

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No. No, they have not have they made much in way of progress No, they have not okay Because technically

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I live it, you know We're right on the border of Frisco and Little Elm and Frisco is a much more affluent city than Little Elm So if we were just you know a few hundred yards past Where we're actually at then that road would have been fixed a long time ago

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But because we're in Little Elm, you know, we kind of get treated a little bit that corner is not really passable in my opinion

06:55

Wow We love it, I love it We love the church the Lord's blessing our church tremendously and you know

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I shared with you because you coming out there we got it We got a couple wonderful families that joined our church So that's great.

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That was a that was a tremendous blessing to know that that bore that kind of fruit So that's that's what I always want to hear.

07:13

That's that's really good So now you've had another conference since then I believe you had

07:18

Oh, yeah, oh yeah, that's our annual conference.

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It's called the Emmaus conference and basically what it is It's it's a conference that focuses on Christ and all of Scripture.

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So it's very Edmund Clowney It's very it's very Christ centered. So we tackled the book of Exodus Oh my and we just really scraped the surface, you know

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I mean, so Bill Johnson did a lot of the heavy lifting he I had him teaching four times So, you know and then

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Steven Yule was there and I don't know if your listeners are familiar with Steven Yule But he is he's a tremendous author.

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He is a tremendous preacher and he taught a

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Couple of sessions that were really good. Yeah, good. Excellent. And no no tornadoes or anything while while he was there

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No, it's perfect weather. Well, thank you Phil Johnson got perfect weather We know

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No, no, I understand that's that's that's okay. Well good. I I know you

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Live down there in Texas and I know it's a tough year down there. I Mean the

08:27

Cowboys lost seven in a row What were the Texans are they even on the map? I don't know

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I mean, I don't I don't keep up with football and so it's easy. It's it's how can you not well, you know

08:38

Here's the thing. I'm not committed to that's that's like being a missionary in Saudi Arabia and not keeping up with Islam Well, that's the thing

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Texas because I am a missionary to the country called, Texas. Yes. Yes I just you know,

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I I just jump on the bandwagon because I'm not passionate about it either way So I am I'm I'm all things to all men, especially even

08:57

Cowboy fans. Okay Well now before we go on to serious things

09:03

I we do need to I do need to You have a you have you you are the the dog whisperer

09:11

Yeah, that's something I I I do on the side you train and you and as a part of that somehow you ended up with a

09:18

Very interesting a little puppy. Yeah, we adopted a little pit bull named Lily Lily and she's very very introverted because She spent three years in a crate yeah, so when

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I when I got her when I rescued her she wouldn't leave the corner of a house or move and We Quite a ministry we took on there.

09:40

Yeah. Yeah So but she has become really a wonderful dog because she helps me train other dogs and her demeanor is quite

09:48

Balanced in that way. She you know, I'll put I'll leash dogs together with her and she balances them out calms them down They just kind of her energy kind of rubs off on the other dogs

09:58

So it's but that's a that's that's a that's a fun part of my life. Yeah Yeah, I got to know

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Lily a little bit first she wasn't so certain about not me hanging around but yeah I think the bow ties threw her off.

10:10

I'm sure they probably did. I'm sure he probably did did Phil do okay with Lily He loved her. Okay. Yeah, he loved her very much and Phil it was really really into the dog whispering thing

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I mean he watches the shows. Oh really into it. So, you know, you'd have to be a cat whisperer for me.

10:27

So yeah Yeah, that's right. I don't do that So but last thing I've got to ask you

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You know, this is a theological question, but What in your eschatology? Results in your offering pig sacrifices at 2 o 'clock in the morning

10:42

What I I really I you know, I'm I'm not even a pre -millennial I'm not sure which strand of premillennialism has the offering of Non kosher as a dockey and pre premillennialism as a dockey.

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Okay. All right But I was sleeping. Uh -huh, and I started smelling

11:07

Bacon, yeah, and so I just thought and it wasn't it wasn't a bacon alarm. No, it was not a bacon alarm

11:14

So that's a fascinating idea I wish I had thought of it But but no, I I'm starting to smell this very strong sense of bacon in my dream

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And then I realized oh no. No, I'm an Emilio's house So it must be getting close to breakfast that I I'm starting wondering maybe

11:30

I overslept because I was always up before you anyways Yep So I'm like man, why did they get up so early to make to make bacon and it's and it just was overwhelming

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I mean, it was just just Bacon attack, you know and so finally

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I I wake up and I look I look at the time and it's two o 'clock in the morning and So I I go

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I go stumbling out to the kitchen and There there is the remnants the burnt offering

12:04

Upon the altar. Yeah, and So so what what what happened was

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Tricia got a she just got this urge of craving for bacon and She cooked some bacon and she ended up Cooking it just a little bit too much.

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I think she said she forgot she is starting a bit too much You know what? I mean? And by that time it was too late and you know,

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I couldn't come to the rescue So it was a whole burnt offering. It was it was a pork burnt offering

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No, it wasn't soothing anybody that was not a soothing offering Yeah, we better move on this more serious thing before you completely shame me out of here

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That was one of the more interesting experiences that I I have some great experiences when

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I travel those are just a few I mean we can talk. Oh, there's some we can talk about the cash offering that you got. Oh, yeah

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No, we don't want to go there. Definitely not. So anyway, it was it was a good time despite breaking my elbow and and having scars

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All over my body now. That's are the worst ones that I've ever had And Tricia's posting on my timeline on Facebook right now.

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I can't see what it is But I can imagine we're getting some pictures, of course Cuz she didn't she took a picture of the burnt offering didn't she?

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I think she might I think she did I'll bet you the burnt offering people that are on Facebook do that kind of yeah Well her that office thing is right next to where my bedroom was and the first night all through the night

13:28

Every time everybody sent anything a trip Yeah, so Facebook is

13:36

Facebook is Facebook, yeah Anyway, so I noticed that you had

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Written a blog article here. You told me about I called Paris and the devil's song

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Now I did not know where did you get this information I Forgot the website, but there were actual multiple sites that That that reported on it.

13:59

This is interesting. Although several attacks reported Let's look at the attack at Bataclan concert hall in Paris.

14:04

The concert was in full swing the band Eagles of Death Metal the song kiss the devil and It's um, it's

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I'm not gonna I'm not gonna You know, it ends with I will love the devil and sing his song and this is what they were performing yeah, they just started going into it and the website actually indicated that this is actually one of the favorite songs of theirs and You know, the lyrics are very juvenile,

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I mean kids all they have will kiss him on the tongue Yeah, just ridiculous that but like a second grader helped him out, you know with the lyrics, but but that's what they were singing

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I mean, that's Well, I I have not actually read the Isis statement, but I know that Our molar read it on the briefing and one of the things that was mentioned was the

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Idolatry being practiced at the concert and that this was part and parcel of the the reasoning is

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You know people will talk about the the innocent people who were attacked now, obviously in the West we use the term innocent

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To refer to someone who has not been convicted of a specific crime by a court of law and hence is under Punishment of the state or something like that or we'll use it

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Morally or ethically for a child an infant child or something along those lines but theologically

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Christians should first and foremost Recognize that the term innocent is only applicable to one person and That was

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Jesus, right? and Yet I think it is indicative of How deeply influenced we are by the culture around us that we can pick up on these these terms and Use them in a way that is actually inconsistent with our actual professed world view

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But is it really our worldview if it does not impact how we think about events in the world?

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I think there are many many professed Christians who have one worldview while sitting in church

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And A completely different worldview. Well, I don't think you have more one worldview they have one worldview they have a religious veneer at a certain point in time whether it's sitting in church and so you you sort of Try to interpret things in a more religious way at certain points in time.

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And then when you're not in that Context then you don't have

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You don't have that kind of religious veneer and you pretty much just think like the world around you now what happened was what

17:05

I want to talk about today, and I'll tell rich you've got someone on Twitter you need to respond to because They're what six months eight months behind now because they're saying how come podcast catchers aren't catching dividing line anymore

17:19

So in other words, someone's got a eight month old URL or something like that because we've been doing sermon audio now for Eight nine month may may okay.

17:31

All right. Well around there anyway, I Was I was troubled by what

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I was watching You know, everybody went wall -to -wall

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Fox News, etc, etc on Friday night it started happening while I was actually doing the dividing line, but I Guess some people wanted me to become a

17:53

Shepard Smith or something like that and you know go news stuff Even as I sat that night watching the news,

18:00

I knew that majority what they were saying the next day It wasn't probably accurate you know the the death toll was gonna change and and all it's just speculation after speculation of Speculation and there wasn't any reason to do any more speculating especially sitting here on the dividing line

18:18

So I'm watching it that evening and I'm consciously trying to listen to the coverage and to interpret it as a

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Christian as a person considering the Lordship of Christ issues of sin and and judgments and and the the sovereign decree of God and Also as a person who just did a debate in South Africa tried to do a debate in South Africa on the subject of war violence and peace in Christianity in Islam and Over the next couple days you know,

19:07

I see people putting the tricolors on their avatars and You know,

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I start seeing the pray for France thing and Other horrific acts take place during this time in Africa This kind of thing happens almost every day in Syria Iraq places like that The media doesn't cover it because it's a different culture, but this is

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Paris for crying out loud. This is the Eiffel Tower This is Gucci. This is Whatever and all of a sudden there is this in my opinion massive

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Overreaction because of location and nationality rather than Who's actually dying why?

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Purposes so on and so forth. And so I'm trying to watch all this stuff and I'm trying to I'm trying to filter this through The fact that what

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I'm seeing from many self -professed Christians is either a a

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Full -on emotional response Now a lot of people I've had people say you bet you bet

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I God made us emotional creatures. So I'm gonna respond emotionally. All right

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But the problem is we're attempting to consistently apply biblical principles to understanding

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What the purposes of God would be? in bringing such things about if you don't believe

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God has a sovereign decree and he's just sort of sitting up there in heaven, you Know doing the best he can to sort of respond to things is and you know, then you're gonna view things differently but if you believe that the

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God has a purpose in all these things, we're supposed to be Thinking with the mind of Christ and we're supposed to be applying

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Biblical principles and doing so consistently to the glory of God and I Think Greek terms like Sophronis moss

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Pi duo is has has some some some syntactic semantic connections discipline

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Self -control, these are things I see and what would self -control be if it's not self -control including emotion?

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I mean we are I do not believe that a mature Christian Should be a person that is controlled by their emotions.

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We should have our emotions constantly under control and That makes me heartless unloving unkind

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Unfeeling all the rest that kind of stuff. I actually would argue just the opposite that If you have your emotions under control

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You're going to best be able to serve others you're gonna best be able to do what's right and best for them and that is a deeper form of love than to be constantly

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Ruled by your emotions and end up doing things that end up hurting other people. So that's my apologetic for being

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Scottish I guess you might say but I was from the beginning trying to avoid falling into that trap of Look when you think of some people

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In a in a crowded theater tossing grenades and sitting there with an ak -47 at that range

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There is the first thought in my mind is the absolute cowardice of those men

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Because they know they can do anything want they want there and they're just a level of evil is is difficult to begin to comprehend

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But then another thought crossed my mind has nothing to do with theology it has to do with politics and and culture and that is

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Man what if what if there were just a few people in there it could fight back I am

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NOT one who believes the Bible teaches that we as Christians are to be Sheep to the slaughter in that context in Self -giving the service of Christ called to give your you bet but in the context of Someone if I see someone sitting in a balcony with a with a firearm

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Shooting people indiscriminately right and left and I'm armed. I have I have

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I think I have a moral duty Yeah To demonstrate that I'm a pretty good shot and take that person out

23:51

I think that I have an absolute moral duty to do that and some people would argue that I don't I think John Piper would

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Argue that I don't I'm a believer. He's an unbeliever. I should be willing to go to heaven because he's gonna go to hell. I Don't see that in Jesus's teaching he he talked about the

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You know if the if the house owner had known the thief was coming Then he would have kept the thief coming.

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Well, how you gonna do that? He told the Apostles to you know, you know, they were gonna be walking along Roads that are unsafe.

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They were to take care of themselves It's not I don't believe it's a biblical

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Christian thing To expose yourself and to risk your life.

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I think the the commandment to thou shalt not kill includes Thou shalt protect life.

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And if I have the ability to do that, then I need to be doing that and in this situation It is an amazing thing that they could with impunity

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There were only like what seven to nine people involved in these attacks and look at the number of people they killed. Yeah That wouldn't happen in Texas.

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Yeah, that's the kind of first thing I told my wife. Yeah, that would not happen. No, no No, no

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In fact, I was I was at your house when those guys tried right tried to get into that that Draw Muhammad cartoon thing garland event the garland event one of which actually lived pretty close to you.

25:18

That's right That's right one of the guys one of the guys that went to Texas just lived just just up the road from me here in Phoenix, so They wouldn't get away with that in in in most places.

25:28

Well, they would in on the on the east coast and the left coast You bet but not not in Texas not not in Arizona There would have been people firing back and a lot fewer people would have died as a result, that's right

25:43

But that culture has been completely disarmed. So They are totally at the at the mercy of the state at that point and the state's only got so many people and can only move so fast

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So, you know what what can I say anyway I started thinking about all this because again,

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I Started seeing things on on Twitter and Facebook the bloodlust

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Of certain people Let's just go well Yesterday someone once again,

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I cannot believe this someone once again posted Bob Maury's nuke

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Mecca idea I'm serious. They posted Bob Maury's nuke

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Mecca idea. We just need to turn Mecca into glass and Islam will be over with because then they can't do the five pillars and I'm just like oh my goodness there is there is absolutely

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Positively nothing I could ever imagine that would solidify the world's

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Muslims more than nuking Mecca Yeah, I mean you you want to change a 5 % jihadi population to a 95 % jihadi population

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That's what you do And you go well destroy the faith they can't do they already can't do

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Hajj right now Did you know that right now they've run the numbers given the number of people Saudi Arabia allows in to do

27:13

Hajj each year There are more Muslims in the world that could ever fulfill the fifth pillar of Islam right now

27:18

There's there it's mathematically impossible to fulfill that fifth pillar So I've always said what they're gonna do is they're gonna develop the concept of a

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Hajj of desire Just like baptism of desire And so as long as you would really like to do that, then that would be considered actually fulfilling it

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You should still try to you know, the lottery and so on and so forth But if Allah does not allow you to do so as long as you desired you and that's it

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That's all that's all they need to do and the idea of destroying that black stone or whatever

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Destroying the religion of Islam is the dumbest thing anyone has ever suggested There's just no question about I saw people posting that on my timeline and I'm just like no.

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No, no, not no no, no, and so I'm approaching this from a unique perspective

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Because it won't unique it shouldn't be unique, but I'm approaching this from recognition That if I speak up on this the emotions right now and the only reason

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I'm being forced to do this now I was still gonna leave let a couple weeks pass But I I was informed

28:22

Today about an article that appeared of all places on pathos anything appears on pathos you might as well ignore it, but The article appeared on pathos and Our our our

28:39

Lutheran friend Posted this in regard and the title that was given here was how

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Christians should not respond to the Paris attacks So our Lutheran friend brother

28:55

Cooper posted this and This is why I'm responding to this this past week's have a very difficult one for people throughout the world nearly 150

29:03

Christian students were killed In Kenya and around the same number of innocent people were killed in France due to attacks from radical

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Muslim terrorists Muslims terrorists And again, I would question the term innocent since these attacks

29:16

I've seen a number of different Christian responses many have been overcome with anger and fear I confess that I felt the same anger after these attacks

29:22

But there was one particular response that I saw shared around social media which was particularly disturbing and I think is worth a response and then he then he quotes me

29:34

I am keeping my mouth shut about Paris and pray for Paris and all the emotions and red white and blue flags and icons and all

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That stuff have to see I would like to discuss the issue from a Christian worldview perspective It really that takes into consideration judgment and sin and all sorts of things like that Well folks wrapped up in emotion tend to dismiss or forget about all that So I'll wait a while in our day

29:56

It takes what a week or so before folks move on to something else and emotions die down Then maybe we can have a meaningful conversation about without about responding to such events and it consistently big old fashion so what am

30:06

I saying, I'm not gonna comment on this yet and One of the reasons I'm not gonna come on this is because of the emotions

30:13

That this fellow admits he himself had That that he he admits.

30:19

I I felt that fear. I felt that anger. I experienced it This is

30:24

Jordan Cooper, by the way. I'm sorry. I just said mr. Cooper but it's Jordan Cooper and this is called just and sinner is the blog on patios if you want to wander over to patios if you can survive wandering over to patios, but anyway, so After I had posted that Someone on Twitter had

30:47

Sent me what somebody else had said That's ridiculous. Does that man think he's a prophet etc, etc.

30:53

I said I'm going wait a minute My article said I'm not commenting on this right now.

30:58

So if you say I'm not commenting you're commenting Nobody took up what

31:05

I actually said and it is man. There's a lot of emotion here I didn't have anybody defend the idea. You know what and Christians should just be a jumble of emotions

31:13

No, they didn't defend that though. I think most of them fell into that but I did mention one thing

31:20

I said Till then till I comment this cartoon from Joanne's far a former

31:27

Charlie Hebdo cartoonist Reminds us of the fact that French society by and large has no interest in God God's ways

31:34

God's laws God's will and well God In general, I want to consider that after all the emotions have died down that is that's all

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I said and then I and the Cartoon was all over the place and it was the cartoon where she basically said we appreciate the pray for Paris hashtag

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But we don't need more religion Paris is about love and joy and kisses and wine and celebration and blah blah blah blah blah blah

31:56

It was you're just standard in your face. Keep your religion to yourself.

32:02

This is a secular society response now Evidently, mr.

32:08

Cooper can read my mind. This is an amazing thing because Not only can he figure out what

32:14

I'm saying from this before I actually say it But he can even criticize me for saying it too soon

32:21

After the event, even though I didn't actually say anything. That was the amazing part

32:26

Was it part of his his his problem is it this distance was right afterwards? how there are people still hurting how can you and I'm like, you know,

32:36

I didn't ask for someone to give me an illustration of Hyper emotionalism, but if you want to provide one, you know,

32:44

I I guess you know and do it on patios. There you go But I sort of feel like I've been forced to do this earlier than I wanted to because I keep running into people who are

32:55

Saying well you said this and I just think it's terrible that you think this and it's like, okay All right, at least let me actually say something so that when you're disagreeing with me you can

33:08

Well, I just realized I was about to say you can disagree with what I actually said But folks like this aren't gonna be disagreeing with what

33:14

I actually said anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter one way or the other Anyway, um, and if you disagree you go ahead and and let me know

33:27

Right here on the program It was actually your Charlie Hebdo Post that you know that picture that you posted that kind of contributed to me writing my article too because I think it was a valid point that we needed to point that out to people that You know all of this

33:46

Sympathy that we are lavishing on France and rightly so I mean weeping with those that weep, you know but I think the thing with Jesus is that We have to watch the way he wept

33:57

Right. I mean he like you were saying, I mean Jesus obviously a man of perfect self -control wept

34:04

Very strategically, I guess we can say It wasn't just for emotional isms sake if you look at John chapter 11

34:11

He wasn't weeping along with the mourners at Lazarus Lazarus's tomb. His tears were much more profound

34:17

So I think that is where the biblical worldview really comes in and I think what you were I know what you're going to try to do with this and Eventually and then why you had to put something out saying you'll talk about it later

34:28

But in my article I tried to do a little bit of it that and that is you know interpreting things from a biblical worldview actually sees beneath the surface of the initial reaction of everybody and really informs the world as to what is actually transpired in France and Which is just really wave upon wave of evil where you have people, you know revelry and in evil and then being murdered in the most evil way

34:55

But it isn't it isn't it is as if these are a bunch of Saints, you know

35:00

Right gathering together for a choir service and they were slaughtered by you know by these terrorists

35:07

They were slaughtered and it was unjust and it was evil and those men will be judged for what they did.

35:13

Absolutely, but Here's where theology matters I Think mr.

35:19

Cooper because of his theology may not agree with this but just as a

35:28

Syria was judged for Okay, some

35:35

I'm making a serious point what did I just say just as Syria was judged right

35:42

You know what happened as Syria was judged Siri popped up on my iPhone series.

35:50

Like what can I help you with? Tell us tell Siri not to judge. Yeah. Yeah, Siri.

35:56

Don't judge. Okay, whatever. All right She probably already knows that probably has that programmed in that's funny.

36:02

But but as in Isaiah chapter 10 when God brings

36:09

Assyria against Israel He says that they're they're the the the axe in his hand they are the means by which he is judging an ungodly people and then

36:23

Having justly judged and ungodly people people of Israel in Perfect accordance with his holy law in perfect accordance with Deuteronomy 28 29 blessings and cursings, etc

36:38

And man, those are tough tough chapters to read I just read them recently from the pulpit as part of our regular readings of the

36:45

Old Testament and man Really hard, um Just judgment and we're talking the

36:52

Assyrians Isis she did it again Isis doesn't even know how to pretend to be like the

37:04

Assyrians because they were Absolutely, brutal beyond description.

37:11

I mean a a a k -47 and a Hand -grenade is merciful.

37:18

It's a humane way to the humane way Very very much. So so they bring this slaughter and Then God judges them for the attitude of their heart

37:35

Now a lot of theologies aren't big enough to handle that which is why they end up throwing so much the

37:42

Old Testament out and Well, you know, this is just how the Israelites thought about God and and and that kind of thing and and blah blah blah blah blah

37:54

But I take that very very seriously. I think that is how we are to understand these things and So I start with a

38:03

I Think as a Christian That we should be very careful with that word innocence

38:11

Non -combatants, etc, etc. That's fine But we need to recognize

38:17

That Romans chapter 1 says God's wrath is being revealed Present tense against all the unrighteousness and ungodliness submit that does not mean

38:26

I have the ability to look at a tsunami or an earthquake and go ah

38:32

That particular earthquake was brought on by this particular thing because if that were the case then

38:39

San Andreas Would have to be a Christian movie because it wiped out

38:45

San Francisco Okay, just completely and you go. Aha. See San Francisco wipe out.

38:50

There you go that I can't see that but what I can confess is

38:57

That in this world God brings his just judgment to bear and that there is that as Christians we are missing a very important element of God's kingship over his universe

39:15

When we buy into the thinking that there are quote -unquote purposeless tragedies and events that were beyond God's control and that do not have any purpose in God's governance over his universe

39:31

There's a lot of folks their theology isn't big enough for that It's just fallen world bad things happen in a fallen world

39:37

Well, I'm not saying that I know the exact purposes and how judgment was brought about in each one of these situations

39:43

But I do know mr. Cooper, for example complains Because I mentioned judgment

39:51

Complains that well there there are Christians in France. Well, of course, there are Christians in France. They're Christians everywhere Yeah, but they're a tiny tiny tiny minority.

39:58

That doesn't matter There were true believers In Yahweh who died when the

40:05

Assyrians? You know if you if you lay siege to a city true believers and Nonbelievers both starved to death at pretty much the same rate, right?

40:16

Okay, you know, I mean, that's just that's just how it works and So this idea that well there

40:24

There there are churches he mentions that he had relatives there and so he's very it's very again very emotional

40:31

You can't argue the motion, you know, and and as long as he's admitted this is I'm being emotional.

40:36

Okay, fine I'm not going to be I could be it's not that I don't have emotions.

40:42

I just believe that it's important to Keep them under control so that You can avoid ending up starring on TVN So so but so second thing is

40:55

I Cannot see how any Christian could analyze an event like this without asking the question of The cultural and national

41:14

Theology because every nation has a theology of The nation that experiences this now in many places in places like Africa the nation is so weak and so Nebulous almost that that you really can't even ask the question be honest with you

41:35

There is there really isn't you there you're starting to talk about tribal religion and stuff like that But we're we're talking about the

41:43

French Revolution here. We're talking about France and it's prideful Rejection of the necessity of Submission to any deity whatsoever

41:56

Yeah Their idea is exactly what the left in our society wants and that is you're free to have any religion you want you just keep

42:03

It inside your church inside your head and inside your home It has no place outside of those those things you keep your life cannot reflect it.

42:11

You cannot live in light of it It's can only exist up here it we it's it's it's it's

42:20

Psalm 12 for all over again Who is Lord over us? all right, so When when people are putting up, you know, the

42:28

Eiffel Tower and all the rest of stuff. I'm just sitting here going why? Again, are we doing this?

42:34

I mean as long as if if all you're saying is I think it's terrible that Non -combatants were slaughtered in a horrible way

42:45

Great, but if what you're saying is there is something special about this place

42:52

Well, what was special about it? Other than the fact that to the Muslim mind it represents the very depth of the decadence of Western culture which

43:03

They identify with Christianity They identify that with Christian that they're that what they call them

43:10

Crusaders the Crusaders died Now that's foolishness on the

43:15

Muslims part, right? But at the same time How can you seriously suggest that it that any?

43:23

Mature Christian analysis of this and I guess that's the key. It's supposed to be mature hence based upon biblical revelation

43:30

Reasoning logic not emotion, but how can you say any mature Christian reflection upon this is to ignore?

43:38

the rampant abortion the rampant sexual immorality the the the the absolute rejection that there is a law of God that is to give light and guidance to how man is

43:50

Kindest to live it's there and if you ignore it I don't think you're giving a Christian analysis of what's taking place at all in any way shape or form

43:59

But I was just gonna say I think the other thing too that we have to pick up on is the hypocrisy of the

44:08

Response that we've heard so far That you know an event like this as horrible as it is is no more

44:15

Horrible than what has been already going on in Syria Iraq for months and months and months and months and months with the

44:23

The killing of thousands the rape of eight -year -old Yazidi girls and yet nobody puts up a nobody puts up a

44:33

You know a hashtag for Yazidi girl or or puts up there, you know or changes their

44:38

Facebook You know profile or whatever, you know, and so I think it's it's yeah

44:44

But we go to soccer games and we go to rock concerts and they look like us They carry iPhones like us, but that's right

44:51

That's right And and this is where the Christian the Christian voice has to distinguish itself

44:56

From the world if we just sound exactly like what Fox News is doing What are we really saying and how are we being salt and light?

45:06

We're not you know, we should be talking about is the deeper worldview issue that That this is the spirit of the age that we're witnessing here that this is

45:15

You know, this is all all of this is a result of sin and The deeper, you know the deeper, you know issues of the human heart total depravity and the fact that I'm deeply concerned by the fact that so many

45:36

Christians have Been as a result of their giving into emotion Willing to allow that emotion to change to hatred so as to support the indiscriminate murder of untold thousands of Syrians and Iraqis Okay, Isis may be in Raqqa, but there are other people in Raqqa too.

46:01

Yeah, they're not supportive of Isis They they are they have been taken over by these people

46:06

They don't want to be a part of this stuff and they're dying in far greater numbers now Than anyone who died in Paris What I'm seeing that really concerns me are

46:16

Christians who are giving in to hatred toward all Muslims the argument is

46:22

These are the real Muslims and any Muslim who tells you I don't support what Isis is doing is deceiving you and lying to you

46:29

This is what is really Really concerning me. Yeah, we we have to we have to resist giving in to the temptation to To substitute

46:41

Christ likeness or some sort of Politically charged response to some even militarism or militant response to something, you know where Christ would say

46:53

You know that you love your enemy It's so easy for us to listen to popular

47:00

Conservative yeah voices telling us that the answer to this is we need a new president

47:06

We might but more than anything we need we need a move of God big time It's the only thing that that's the only answer

47:13

No question about that. But let me address this because this is where I really I think a lot of folks

47:20

I'm really really troubled man. It's we only have like 11 minutes left There What I'm hearing from so many of the people in social media on television everything else is

47:35

That Isis represents the real Islam and Any other view is a fake

47:45

Islam you're tearing at all the time I'm hearing that from Christians who minister to Muslims Here's the problem

47:55

On one side you have the the quote -unquote progressives also known as communists Who say oh this has nothing to do with Islam and and Islam is a religion of peace and la la la la on The other side you have people saying this is the real

48:12

Islam and any Muslim doesn't do this is not a true Muslim both of them share the same

48:20

Black and white mindset that cannot function in this world. And that is everything's got to be either this or that there's nothing in between and The reality is the the the

48:33

Isis Muslims well Many of them I don't know what percentage because no one can do a meaningful poll or something

48:41

But many of them believe themselves to be Orthodox practicing

48:48

Muslims doing their best to follow the example of Their prophet as they understand it there are those there now there are also amongst them

48:59

Simply men who love evil they love to rape they love to maim

49:04

They love to kill and they are more than willing to do all the religious stuff that allows them to do those things

49:10

Okay, so what's the percentage? I don't know but the fact the matter is

49:17

Isis has its theologians Isis has its people who?

49:22

are are going to You know have their their doctoral degrees and be able to make their arguments from the

49:33

Literature from the Hadith from and so on so forth. They're gonna be able to make their arguments. There are believe this

49:40

This is an Islamic problem on the other side I Hear the

49:46

Muslims were saying they are wrong Here's why they're wrong

49:51

Here's what they're ignoring and I want to encourage them to engage in debate with the other side on this issue

49:58

But as I have said over and over and over again I don't think that the sources that the two of these sides would agree upon or authoritative are clear enough and Consistent enough to solve the debate between these two sides

50:14

But what I'm concerned about is there are many Christians who want to deny that there are any Muslims over here at all

50:21

They want to deny That you know, I just got this. Yep. I just got this today

50:27

I had seen this ordered and I got it on it's called the study could on a new translation and commentary

50:34

Nasser Dogley de Kake Lombard and Rustem I believe are the editors with the

50:42

ESV of the Quran Maybe it's a it's a whole new translation Large enough print to actually read right and more footnotes

50:53

Than the ESV study Bible has it really does it has more footnotes than the ESV study Bible has in the lane

50:59

I mean look at that. The language is actually pretty pretty good translations good the translation That's I have not spent enough time with it to say.

51:05

Wow. This is really good This is a new standard we can use or something like that I'm gonna have to spend some time with it, but these obviously do not represent

51:13

The Isis range of people. So are we to say that these people are actually hiding?

51:19

AK -47s behind their back just waiting for the opportunity to shoot us or Are we to recognize that their theology is different than those on the other side?

51:31

we want to force Islam to be a monolithic all on the same page

51:38

They do that to us. They always hold me accountable what the Pope says, excuse me I don't want to be held accountable for the

51:43

Pope says the me and the Pope are on completely different pages I believe the Pope has the false gospel, etc, etc, etc but they they broad brush us and we turn around and we broad brush them too and As a result, it seems to me that there's more than one

52:01

Christian on social media That would not have any problem whatsoever with the indiscriminate carpet bombing of all

52:09

Muslim populations We're supposed to be called to minister the gospel to these folks not carpet bomb them and if you don't recognize the difference between these groups and what they're willing to do and what they believe and the spectrum in between How are you any different than from the jihadis who likewise refuse to make any distinction between us and what we believe

52:35

It does not make any sense to me and it frightens me greatly And it makes me wonder if how any of these people who are adopting this attitude could actually be seriously praying for an opportunity

52:47

To actually invest themselves in witnessing to one of these Muslims I mean if you have this idea that all

52:55

Muslims are exactly like this There is no way that you are going to be taking any time at all to be witnessing to that person

53:04

One other area just really quickly All of a sudden what was it Trump? Was it

53:09

Trump that said that he would think about closing all the mosques Yeah, I read it yesterday that he was talking about, you know, you know, it may come to that We may have to may have just closed all the mosques folks.

53:22

I saw people going Excuse me, um, that's the same government

53:30

That is telling us that we need to have Transgendered people on our staves and transgendered bathrooms and can't say anything about abortion and need to be doing gay marriages and Etc.

53:44

Etc. Etc. Etc. Any power you give to a secular government like ours is

53:52

Gonna be used against you in description eventually Eventually, it's gonna be used against you and it frightens me that there are so many people

54:01

That just get so up in their emotions and so up in their Islamophobia, I'm gonna go ahead and use it because if you don't make distinctions then that is a phobia

54:13

Okay, I don't like the term anymore like homophobia But if you refuse to think clearly and refuse to make distinctions in looking at people groups

54:23

That's a phobia. That's that's that's that's not thinking rationally if you're gonna get all caught up in that Hey when they come after you and they come after your church

54:33

Don't complain because you're the one going. Oh, yeah. I think the state should be able to do things like this Oh, but we should do it about Muslims because they want to blow everybody up You don't there is a

54:44

I was gonna get to this I may spend some more time on it, but there was an article y 'all see this article on Where was this posted?

54:52

I think it was half Poe Yes, I'd huspo up arrest pastor

54:58

Kevin Swanson, this is a homosexual Making the argument that a an

55:06

Orthodox Presbyterian Church pastor should be arrested under Except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such an action

55:23

So they're wanting to use that You know can't cry a fire in a crowded theater thing

55:30

To say that if you say what Kevin Swanson says on homosexuality You're inciting the violence and lawless action and therefore you should be arrested and put in prison yeah, because hate crime doesn't have to be violent and If you can accuse a

55:44

Muslim of a hate crime, you can accuse a Christian of a exactly exactly difference becomes arbitrary and People don't and just people are just glibly gladly going along saying well, you know

55:57

Hey as long as it's the Muslims as long as it's not us. Well, what's the basis of that expose? I think part of the reason that people are so afraid is because of The fact that you can't really distinguish anymore between You know who are the nominal?

56:12

Muslims who will never engage in a violent act their entire lives and who you know Who are the the

56:18

Muslims that will I mean if you look at the faces of the people that went into the Paris and did? This I mean you're looking at teenagers.

56:25

You can't tell you can't tell you can't tell from the difference And so the natural reaction is just to say we'll get rid of all of them indiscriminately

56:32

It doesn't matter, you know eradicate the problem even if you end up do or even if you end up harming, you know completely

56:41

Law abiding Muslims, which is a very difficult thing to do Just a reminder that I mean we're living in the present evil evil age

56:48

There's no solution to all of these problems except the one that we know exactly, the only solution that really does exist is is

56:57

Well, we have we have a weapon of mass instruction. That's right. And that's that's what the

57:02

Muslims need they need the gospel and they But I remain very very concerned at how

57:13

Ready many professing Christians are to jump on the nuke them all let

57:19

God sort them out. Later bandwagon It is a difficult balance. I mean if you go to red grace media

57:24

I've written tons of articles on Islam and it's hard to walk that fine balance between not

57:31

You know not condemning all Muslims, but at the same time speaking the truth about what

57:36

Islam teaches teaches for all Muslims It's a little bit easier for me since I know You know,

57:42

I debate I engage with these folks I would love to engage Someone who would defend Isis. Yeah, but Isis doesn't do debates

57:49

Isis does violence You think part of it too though is because there's just not enough Muslims that are condemning

57:55

Isis No, they are I immediately wrote to a Muslim friend of mine and he immediately linked me to a condemnation of Isis and the

58:04

Paris attacks and things like that. They are they just don't get a they just don't get any media They don't they don't get any rights it

58:10

Fox News isn't gonna pick it up and Unfortunately, most of my Christian friends aren't either and if you dare mention it

58:15

Then you'll be attacked you'll be attacked to be a compromiser and so they could just say that those Muslims are engaging in Takiyah That's the other easy way around it.

58:23

That's the other easy way around. It's just accuse them all of dishonesty. So Yeah, when it's done to us, it's easy how we recognize it when we do it to others

58:33

Amazing how it changes Anyways, you brother have a flight to catch and I do we are we are pretty much wrapping up the program day

58:41

Thanks for coming out. Thanks for thank you very much. Thank you for all you do brother I thank you on behalf of a lot of people, you know that not only that I know but just you know

58:50

You do a lot of good for a lot of people and you've been ministering to me for many many years and I know you hate all this

59:00

You got to sit there and take it brother but I thank you because it's it's it's almost surreal for me to be sitting here and be honest with you

59:07

I mean, you're a little nervous that I was gonna like do a role play or something with you That would have been fun. I would have told you

59:12

I would have had so much I love wife would have loved if we did something like that She would have loved it.

59:20

Yeah, she's I was way to sit here and say that I was on the dividing line.

59:25

I mean how many well, we'll be back I know I know Tom Buck's trying to drag me back to that. Yeah, we're gonna do something

59:31

So we got some stuff and we got some stuff in the works We'll be back and I will try to avoid falling flat on my face and stuff or I'll have you follow me in the truck

59:39

And videotape it because that would absolutely go viral on YouTube That was just a friend and foe alike.

59:45

Yeah, you know, that's exactly right. That'd be great So hey, thanks for listening to the dividing line today Lord willing.