Matt Slick Live: June 28, 2024

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The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live!

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Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm .org.

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When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live! For answers, take in your calls and respond to your questions at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. If, as usual, you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877 -207 -2276.

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It is easy to do. You can also email me at info at karm .org,

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info at karm, C -A -R -M, dot O -R -G, and you can put in the subject line, radio comment, radio question, and you can do that.

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Easy -peasy. Okay, let's see. All right, I've got a ton of notes.

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Let's see. Okay. So, like I said, if you want to give me a call, please do that.

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I just got a message from my brother. He says, call me. So, I don't know what's going on. I'm a little distracted.

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But, at any rate, hey, if you want to watch the show, you can do that as well. All you have to do is go to rumble .com

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forward slash Matt Slick Live, all one word, and you out there. Good.

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Sound is great. Good, good, good, good. And you can participate in the chat. The chat's really good.

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It really is. There's some good people in there. A lot of fun. 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, depending.

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People will come in and just chat. We have fun. It's a lot of fun. So, there you go.

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Hey, look, like I said, if you want to give me a call, 877 -207 -2276.

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All right. Okay, I've got some hate mail that came in.

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And I like hate mail, so I'm going to read this one. It's good. Okay, it's good.

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And so, for those of you who don't know, on Fridays, I like to do hate mail and wacko mail.

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Now, we don't get too much wacko mail. And lately, the past few months, we've not really been getting that much hate mail.

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I don't know what the problem is. People are starting to like me a lot more. I don't know.

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Now, is that good or bad? Who knows? But it used to be that we'd get just a plethora of hate mail, you know, three, four, five a day.

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Oh, it was awesome. And I would read them because I love them. I think they're great. And so,

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I've been complaining we're not getting enough hate mail. So, I'm going to do one. We have nobody waiting on the radio on the call, so I'm going to do a hate mail right now.

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When God was handing out brains, this came in this morning. When God was handing out brains, you thought he said trains, and you told him you already had a set.

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I've been to your website, and you people need to repent of your false teachings. We can feel

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God through heavenly, ooh, I like these kind of statements. We can feel

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God through heavenly vibrations emitted by the Earth's core atmosphere. It's basic physics.

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Now, it could be that just somebody just having fun and just sending me an insult so I can read it on the radio because it's not really an insult, because it's dumb, but it might be that it's real, too.

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So, I don't know, you know, but I've got to kick out of stuff like that. It's basic physics. I like that people say feel

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God through heavenly vibrations. Here's the thing. If you go to, I'm going to show you something. This is a principle here, and it applies to Christians as well.

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This is in Genesis chapter 3, and in Genesis 3, it says the serpent was crafty, et cetera, and so did

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God really say, and so in that, you know, doubting God's word, and then she changed God's word. That's what the cults do.

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They always doubt God's word for what it really says, and they change God's word, have new prophets, new prophetesses.

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God really means this, you know, all that kind of stuff. Well, anyway, so Satan and Eve had the conversation, and verse 6 is really important.

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Now, it doesn't have the word feelings in it, but when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was a delight to the eyes, that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from it and ate, and gave it to her husband, and he ate.

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So, basically, it was a feelings. It's a feelings, the feelings led to the fall.

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That reminds me. I remember where I was. I was with my wife. We were shopping one day, and, you know, my job was, back then, my job was simply to be the muscle.

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Push the cart, lift the boxes, move this into there, and she'd point, and so be doing that.

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And as women often go, particularly my wife, she would examine the labels, and prices, and units, and everything, and I'd sit there and go, oh, yeah, yeah.

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Because me, I just go through, throw stuff in the cart, I'm done. You know, my wife just looks and rubbed her forehead a lot around me.

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So, well, it's just a different style of getting shopping done. So, while she was the one pointing and stuff, and I would, between calls, between directions,

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I would go on my phone, and I would research. That's what I do, you know.

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And I remember, I was going through something about, I can't remember the exact stuff.

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It was all about Mormonism, and how the fall into sin was considered a good thing, because they call it a fall upward, so that now you have the ability to become gods.

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And I remember, it was just, that is so dumb. It's just so ridiculous.

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You know, sin is now praised, and it's twisted in such a way that now it's a good thing.

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So, now we can, well, sin's bad, but the good thing is, now we can become gods, you know. And it's just, oh.

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And I remember stopping and realizing it, and I remember looking at the shopping cart,

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I can still see it, when it hit me. Only the ungodly celebrate sin.

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That was it. This thought just flooded my mind. Only the ungodly celebrate sin.

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And that's how I summed up Mormonism. I remember that. Anyway, because the email was about feelings, okay.

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You feel the truth. In fact, let's go over the Mormonism thing. I know that Mormon missionaries, when

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I would meet with them and stuff years ago, haven't done it for a while. Lately, I wonder why.

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I don't want them to come to my house anymore. I don't know what the deal is. But they would say, after a presentation, how do you feel about this?

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How I feel about it is that it's full of crud. That's how

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I feel. I wouldn't say that, because they don't want to go with logic. They don't want to go with evidence.

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They don't want to go with scripture. It's how do you feel. And that's the basis for deception.

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Because you're actually saying, when you go with your feelings. Well, the testimony from God. Oh, is it really?

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Yes. How do you know? Because he wouldn't deceive me. How do you know? How do you know your God wouldn't do that?

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Not my God. No, the true God would not do that. How do you know? How do you know? Where do you get it? Out of the

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Bible? Out of your feelings? What? Your feelings say he won't deceive you? The true God won't. But the

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God of Mormonism, oh, of course he will. Because he's a false God. An exalted man from another planet, used to be a sinner, has a goddess wife.

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And so, that's what Mormonism teaches, believe it or not. So, I've had so many times talking to Mormons where it's about feelings.

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What do you feel about this? How do you feel? But I have a testimony. They have a testimony. And I tell them, my testimony is greater than your testimony.

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And I've never had a Mormon match my testimony. And I say, so my testimony, and I tell them about my salvation experience.

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So, is your testimony greater than that? The very presence of the

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Lord? I mean, not just a feeling, his presence. He's actually there. Have you got that?

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No? Okay, well, out of that, I bear my testimony to you that Joseph Smith was a false prophet.

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Out of the power of the Holy Spirit, by the authority of Christ. And, ooh, I'll tell you, they don't like it.

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But look what Moses wrote about this. When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, a delight to the eyes, desirable.

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So, what she saw and what she wanted. Okay, I will, what

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I'll do is subject God's word to what I see, to what I think, to what

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I feel. That's what's going on there. Anyway, all that from the email, the hate mail, where the guy says,

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We can feel God through heavenly vibrations emitted by the earth's core atmosphere.

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So, first of all, are there vibrations emitted by the earth's core? I've never heard it.

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How does the earth's core atmosphere, how does the earth's core have an atmosphere? Listen to the hollow earth thing.

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How do you have heavenly vibrations from the earth's core? Because wouldn't heaven not be earth?

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So, you see, sometimes when people write stuff, they disengage the logic clutch.

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And they let things spin. I know, Elijah, I hear heavenly vibrations from the earth's core.

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And then they send it off. So, yeah, their logic clutch is spinning.

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Hey, let's get to Cole from Virginia. Cole, welcome, you're on the air, man. Hey, Matt Slick, how are you doing, sir?

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Hanging in there, hanging in there on a nice Friday. What do you got, buddy? You told me to call you back today, man.

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What about? Revelation. Revelations 21.

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Three. You're going to you are. Oh, I remember, you know. Yeah, I remember. Yeah.

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Yeah. And I remember that. Well, I mean, that'd be mean. But remember, you really don't really consider anything

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I say. You just basically kind of dismiss it. No, I consider it. But, you know, I'm kind of grounded in what

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I what I see, you know. And what do you see? What's your position again? Well, it's

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Revelation 21. Three. If you read that, it's one verse. Yeah.

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Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men and he will dwell among them and they shall be his people and God himself will be among them.

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Yes. You're not going to see father.

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We're going to see him, man. No, no. Oh, OK. I remember now. Yeah. It says

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God is among them. It doesn't say they'll see him. If you're going to say that they're going to be among us because God is among us right now, he is living in us and dwelling us in the body of Christ.

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Well, I'm telling you, John 14, 23, the father and the son both live in us. So he's definitely among us in the presence.

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OK, well, wait a minute. Hold on. Let me ask you one question. Now, Satan saw

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God, right? Didn't Lucifer see God face to face? Most probably.

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But I don't know. I think that's a good question. I don't know. I don't know if it ever says that. Remember, remember.

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Hold on. Hold on. Let me hold on. Hold on. OK, man. You're not thinking.

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You're reacting. Come on. Think. Do you know of any place in Scripture that says Satan saw

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God? You can't just imply. I'm going to tell you. Let me tell you.

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Where? Remember when Job, where he went up before God and the sons of God, he says, look,

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Job will curse you to his face if you take everything. Come on, man. Come on. He was the lead angel.

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Come on, man. You know he saw God face to face. Come on, man. Well, wait a minute.

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Wait a minute. Let me ask you. Do you believe in the Trinity? Do you believe in the

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Trinity? Of course I do. That's who, that's who said. OK, the answer was simply. The answer is simply yes.

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I don't need a bunch of stuff. Yeah. Now, they saw God in the

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Old Testament, right? Of course. Now, that was not the father that they saw, because Jesus says in John 6, 46, not that anyone has seen the father.

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No one has seen him. No. So they have not seen the father. In the flesh. That's in the flesh,

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Matt. Hold on. Hold on. It doesn't say that, and you can't add to God's word to change its meaning.

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That's what false teachers do. Wait a minute. Let me ask you. Let me ask you.

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I'm going to ask you one question, and then we can cut it off if you want. Now, you literally think

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God's going to let us go through eternity without seeing God the father? Are you kidding me, man?

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Are you really? Do you really believe that? Yes, absolutely. Well, guess what?

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When we get to heaven, I'm going to show you. See, Matt? See, Matt? I told you we were going to see God the father, because we're going to see him, man.

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Because the Bible says that the father dwells in unapproachable light who no man has seen or can see.

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1 Timothy 6 .16. So we'll check that verse out and imply it or work it into all the rest of your theology.

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Okay? We've got to go, buddy. 1 Timothy 6 .16. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned.

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It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it is easy.

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All you have to do is dial 877 -207 -2276.

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Let's get to Buskman. Buskman, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, good to talk to you,

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Matt Slick. Here we are ending up Pride Month, and a question that has come by me that I've been pondering, and I wanted your take on it,

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Matt. Homosexuality, whether it be male or female, attracted to the same sex.

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Can one be attracted to the same sex and still be a disciple of the

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Lord Jesus Christ by living biblically according to God's word and its precepts as how we are to live and act and behave and believe in order to obey

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Christ? Is it possible to be both? It's possible to have homosexual tendencies and recognize that they are sinful and war against them and be a

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Christian, okay? All right. But not to practice them.

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Quick and insolent. And now, what I would see that is, is like I, myself,

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Matt, I live a celibate life, though I'm attracted to women. And I have a friend who is attracted to men.

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He's been this way since he was little. He even wrote a book about it.

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You can learn about him. He's on the internet. He's been on various Christian talk shows and podcasts.

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And his name is George Carney. I don't know. I just don't know if he's good. So I don't want that to be promoted.

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Don't know if it's good or bad. Okay. Yeah. So I understood. I understood. So, but I know him personally.

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So I have met with him or bred with him. And he has insights that are pretty amazing.

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So the question always comes back to me as busman. Why don't you pray for him?

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He's not a Christian. He can't be because he's attracted to males. And my response is, well,

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I'm a Christian and I'm attracted to females. I don't quite understand the walk.

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If we both have a desire and we both take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ and we conquer that desire.

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We go the route that James has taught us. When we are tempted, there is a way out.

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And we take that way out. Does it matter that I'm attracted to females and he's attracted to males?

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Oh, being attracted to females as natural as what God has designed in males for male to be attracted to female is not what

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God has designed. It's inherently sinful. But you may be attracted to male.

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Yes. And so we can relate this to, for example, let's say a particular person has a tendency to lie for whatever reason.

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Trauma as a child brought up in a home where it was just what was done. And it's part of this young boy growing up.

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And he just always lies. And he becomes a Christian. And he still lies. And he knows it's wrong.

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And he's, oh, my goodness, I can't do that. I better keep doing it. I'm not supposed to. That's different. He has a tendency that is ungodly.

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And he's warring against it. I would say such a person is showing evidence of salvation.

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If a person, a male, is attracted to another male that way and knows it's sinful and is warring against it, that's evidence of salvation.

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Okay? Awesome. That makes perfect sense to me, Matt. That makes perfect sense.

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That's my answer. And I'd just like to say pray for your brother, Bussman.

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I am going to witness to a bunch of LGBTQI plus folks tomorrow, hopefully, to win something to Christ.

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I've been, I believe, challenged by God, if not motivated and compelled by God, Matt, to go to a very large pride event very close to where I live and minister the gospel.

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I'm leaving the 99, you know, my church people and going after the one or many.

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So I do pray that hearts would be opened. And that the message of the gospel will be greatly received so that the deception that I believe is upon these men and women will be broken in the name of Jesus Christ, because whom the son sets free is free indeed.

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Amen. Amen. So pray for your brother, Bussman, here in Ohio. I'll be taking that on tomorrow at 11 a .m.

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Until whenever God sends me to go home. Yeah, let us know how it goes. I just wanted to say that.

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I will. Good. Thanks, man. You'll need protection. I'd recommend that you have cameras and recordings and things like that.

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Yep. Got that going on. Yeah. And I remember you talking about that earlier, Matt. That was great.

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That was great advice. Yeah, that was great advice. So I just want to say thanks. It is.

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It is. And I just really, I really do, Matt. I want as many people in whatever their sin bondage is, whether it be

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LGBTQI +, or whatever, that they be released. Because I know in my own life,

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Matt, I've been released. And this is an amazing life to walk in, Matt Slick Live listeners.

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It's an amazing life to walk with Christ in freedom. It's hard because the world still hates you and wants me, you know, put in a prison cell.

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And some of them even want me dead. But it is really the way to walk as a human being when we know who our

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God is. So thanks, Matt. And I really appreciate all of your information on CARM .org.

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I really press that on people and say, hey, if you've got a question, check out CARM .org.

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Because he's been doing this for quite a long time. And he's quite the scholar. And I just want to thank you once again,

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Matt, from the bottom of my heart. I appreciate it, brother. Okay. Well, appreciate that. I wouldn't call myself a scholar, but hey, that's nice.

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So check it out. And everybody, check out the site. Yeah. Praise God. Okay. God bless, buster.

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Thanks, Matt. All right. Yeah, I'm sure people on our prayer team will be praying for him during that.

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And ours is in September here in Boise, Idaho area.

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And each year, I go out and I join people who are sitting outside the perimeter and preaching the gospel.

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And what's really interesting is that when we do that, that there's a lot of people who are pro -homosexual who come out and they try and kind of surround us.

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I don't like that. And they're loud. They yell. They scream. They ask questions.

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And we start to answer them. They ignore. They're rude. It's interesting.

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And what they want from us is acceptance. And yet they won't tolerate us.

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The hypocrisy is simply there. All right. Hey, look, if you want to give me a call. Okay.

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Oh, good. Okay. All right. Okay, good. Like I said, my brother, everything's okay.

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If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877 -207 -2276.

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Give me a call. It's easy to do. And we'll talk.

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All right. We have nobody waiting right now. So let's get back to some of the questions and the emails that people have sent in and the like.

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Let's see. Radio comments and questions. Let's get to this one. What is your view on Michael Heiser's teaching on the divine counsel?

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I've already gone through that several times. I did that a few days ago on that very question. When are you going to debate

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Chris Fisher again? Who's Chris Fisher? I'll look during the break and see who that is.

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I've debated so many people, I don't remember all their names. If you want to give me a call, 877 -207 -2276.

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We'll be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live!

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Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

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Everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, 877 -207 -2276.

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It's a nice Friday. I watched the presidential debate last night.

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The Dems are doing damage control and they're just imploding.

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So it didn't go really well last night. Okay, let's get back to the radio questions. When are you going to debate

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Chris Fisher again? Probably never. I keep files on everybody I debate now. So this debate happened on March 1st of this year.

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And he's an open theist. Open theism teaches that the future is open.

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And that God does not know exhaustively what people will do. He doesn't know exhaustively their actions.

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He doesn't know them perfectly. Because if he did, you wouldn't have free will. It's faulty thinking. But it's where they park their car.

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And let's just say they parked their car in a handicapped spot with no placard. No logic placard.

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So it's a problem. And I have my notes. The first thing he did was attack my

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Calvinism. And then he showed me that he didn't understand what it was. That's very often the case.

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People who just attack it, they often don't understand it. And sometimes they do.

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I've met a few who understand it and can talk coherently about it. And they disagree for varying reasons.

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And I answer those objections. We have good discussions. But generally speaking, a lot of people just don't understand it.

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They attack a caricature. I remember once I was having an open discussion back and forth with somebody.

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And he said something about, Your Calvinism just teaches that God predetermines everything and no free will.

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And that's wrong. I said, you're right. It is wrong. He said, what? Yeah, it's wrong. That's a wrong position.

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That's right. He said, but that's your position. And I said, no, it's not.

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It's not my position. It's not Calvinism's position either. He didn't know what to do.

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It was funny. At any rate, he was condescending.

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He tried to poison the well. Yet he accused me of doing it. He accused me of being a Platonist. He said

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I lied when speaking with Duffy. Wow. He asked the Lister to be careful about what

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I said. Wow. So yeah, those are the things that it was bad.

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And I think I remember saying never debate that guy again. Not because I can't beat him or answer him.

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It's just because his incompetence was was profound. It's just like, are you kidding me?

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Go away. One of those. So anyway, hey, look, there we go. Let's get to Jennifer. Jennifer, welcome.

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You're on the air. Thank you. I want you to comment on Christian nationalism.

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Because I hear people talk about it in different terms. So if you could kind of comment on that and tell me if that's like an organization.

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Is that part of the Christian movement? It's just a movement within certain

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Christian areas. But I don't know which ones. And basically the idea is that people want

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Christianity to play a central role in the work of our nation.

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In politics and society and things like that. And that it needs to be more Christian. That there needs to be a national identification with Christianity.

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Which I think is a good idea. Now how that would be done, I don't know. Because we need a national identity.

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We need to follow God, the true and living God. And the constitutional fathers wrote that here we have given you a constitution.

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We've given you a nation. Take care of it. And then others wrote back in that day that this won't work unless the nation is

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Christian. And it's true. Because unbelievers and the ungodly and the unprincipled can get in and manipulate things.

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And we can see that. Like last night's debate and the Dems. I consider the Democratic Party to be a terrorist organization.

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So we can see that. But anyway, the idea of religious identity and nationalism. And a lot of stuff based on scriptural warrant and things like that.

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Now how far that goes, that's the question. It's more of a Christian identity. It's like that.

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But from what I understand, the Christian identity is a little bit more strict. I think what

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Christian nationalism teaches, I should study it more. Is the idea that there just needs to be more

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Christian influence everywhere. And that's fine.

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In government and how we do things. Could you imagine if real

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Christians were really in government? Not taking bribes. Not manipulating the

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DOJ or the FBI to go after political opponents. Just because. Can you imagine? Can you imagine?

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When they say, yeah, you have the right to protect yourself. And the right to bear arms.

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As Jesus said in Luke 22 -36. By a sword. And can you imagine?

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The abortion would stop. Oh yeah, killing of the babies. That would be wonderful. Yeah, because I just hear a lot of people talk about it.

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And some positive, some negative. And so I was just wondering, was it a movement?

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Or is it like a Christian identity? But I understand the concept of it.

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I just wanted to kind of hear your thoughts on what it was. Well, here's the thing about any movement.

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Is eventually it will just become corrupted. And the reason is, is because if you want to mess something up.

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You just need people and time. And so, true

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Christians who really do fear the Lord. And who would hold their offices in government.

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As a ministry and a servants to God. Who know they're going to answer directly to Him on the day of judgment.

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It would be different than atheists or democrats. Leftist, wacko, socialist morons.

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Who just want to tax the crud out of everybody. Remove our rights. Give our sovereignty away.

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Things like this. Open the borders up and be invaded. So on the surface things are good.

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But what do you do after 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 generations of people who are in control? How do you know that they're

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Christians really? Say that they are Christian nationalists. Everything has a problem.

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Everything has a potential of being destroyed and corrupted. And it's just how it's always been.

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And then there's the issue of the separation of church and state. Which a lot of people think is constitutional. But it's not.

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The separation of church and state. No, it's not. Nope. Nope, that's it.

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Go look it up. It was originated in a letter. I think by Franklin. I'm not sure. It's been a while since I've studied it.

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And the idea was the separation of church and state was that the state was not to impose a religious system.

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Because that's the way it was in England. The religion they called the

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Church of England was the national religion you had to belong to. And so they said no, we want a separation between that.

31:04

And if you read, I don't know if you've read it, but you should read the Constitution and the Preamble. And you'll see how much about God is...

31:10

I do have a copy of it. You should read it. Everybody should. Read the Preamble and you'll see about issues of God in there.

31:17

And you'll also see stuff about the Sabbath on Sunday. And not coming in to work and stuff.

31:23

Oh yeah, you'd be surprised. But the Libos don't want you to study this stuff.

31:28

They want you to be indoctrinated by listening to CNN, MSNBC, and a little bit of Fox too. So the idea of church and state...

31:36

I remember once on the National Day of Prayer here in Boise. I was one of the speaker pray guys.

31:43

And afterwards a bunch of atheists were down there. And they were polite. They were protesting. That's all right. I went down and talked to a woman.

31:50

And she said, separation of church and state. And I said, you don't want the church to tell the state what to do, do you?

31:56

That's right. Separation of church and state. And I said, is it okay for the state to tell the church what to do? And she just stopped and stared at me.

32:04

And you could see the light bulb went on and she had never thought of it that way. And I said, because that's what's happening.

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Now the state is telling the church what it can and can't do in the pulpit. Where's the separation of church and state there?

32:17

And she didn't know what to say. She had never thought of it. Because they don't think very deeply. Wow. Okay.

32:23

Yeah. Yeah, because I hear people say that too. They're like, if you say, hey, you know, we need to implement this.

32:29

They'll say, you know, we have to separate this. They keep saying that, you know, it should be separate.

32:35

No, they shouldn't. Who says so? Church and state. Why are they? Do we want? You know, if you had 100 people in Congress who are leftist socialists, who don't believe that they're accountable to God, or you have 100 people who are accountable to God and believe in following truth and not lying and not taking bribes, things like that, which do you think is going to be better?

33:04

It's simple. Every socialist system becomes oppressive. Look at Venezuela. I have a timeline on my website about it.

33:13

It's ridiculous. Yeah. And Christians say, well, what about homosexuality?

33:19

Well, what about it? People can be homosexual if they want to be homosexual. Just don't impose it to everybody else. Because they're forcing it down the throats of our children on movies and TVs and TV series.

33:31

It's all over. It's pathetic. Yeah. It's okay for them to push on us morals, but we can't do it in reverse.

33:40

Okay. All right. That's true. That's true. All right. We've got to go.

33:45

There's a break. All right. All right. Thank you so much. You're welcome so much. God bless. All right.

33:51

Hey, folks, if you want to give me a call, 877 -207 -2276.

33:56

We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live.

34:11

Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

34:17

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Last quarter of the hour. If you want to give me a call, well, we've got to wait. We've got a full set.

34:23

Let's go to Dave from California. Welcome. You're on the air. Hello, Matt.

34:29

It's Dave. Hey, man. Where are you?

34:34

Where were you in the meeting this morning? I was too busy doing other things.

34:40

I haven't been feeling too good. I just happened to miss it. That's all right. No big deal. What's up, big guy?

34:47

By the way, ladies and gentlemen, Dave here. I've known Dave for 44 years. We used to be roommates and everything.

34:54

Dave's a good guy. What's up, big guy? What's up? I'm not sure

35:01

I would want to admit to that in a public forum. But then you know me that long? Yeah.

35:09

Hey, listen, the last caller provides a perfect segue to the topic

35:16

I wanted to bring up, and that's the idea of Christian nationalism and so forth, and how

35:25

Christians should respond to their government. But before I address that specifically, the letter that you're referring to, the letter to the

35:34

Danbury Baptists, that was actually written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802.

35:41

And the purpose of it, even though the words, building a wall of separation between church and state was in there, the purpose of it was only meant to remind everybody that we don't want the government imposing a particular denomination or religion on the people.

36:06

And that's the purpose of the wall. Because you could imagine the government passing a law tomorrow that says, hey, from now on, everybody is going to, their theology of the nation is going to be oneness

36:23

Pentecostal. Or that it's going to be, in this context, Baptist, or any other denomination, or any other religion.

36:32

So the wall of separation was to keep the government from telling everybody this is the denomination or religion that you are going to believe.

36:41

And Thomas Jefferson segued that with the quoting of the

36:47

First Amendment, which says that the Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion, but then he contrasted that with prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

36:59

So he made it clear that the person's religion lies solely between them and their

37:05

God, and that government is not to impose any particular belief on people. And that's the wall that Jefferson was referring to.

37:13

It was to keep the government out of our personal beliefs, not to disallow or to prohibit the exercise of people, whether they were in government or out of it.

37:25

Good stuff. Amen, brother. Yeah. Now, along with that, the state, the great state of Tennessee, the legislature and the governor have just passed a resolution calling for 31 days of prayer to start on July 1st.

37:43

And believe it or not, they're pretty orthodox.

37:49

They said that they recognize God as the Creator, King of all glory. He has the authority to judge and bless the nations, and that we are to seek

37:58

God's mercy upon our land and not to have him withdraw his hand from us, recognizing our sins and shortcomings as we humbly ask forgiveness.

38:08

And then he goes to list some various things that are predominant in the landscape right now, violence, human trafficking, addiction, corruption, and asks that the

38:18

Holy Spirit fills our halls of government. Now we had a very large church here in Southern California pick up on this, and he announced to his congregation that he was going to ask them to pray and fast as possible during the whole month of July.

38:34

And so I thought it would be apropos if we did the same thing and put out to all the listeners that this would be a good time for us to get on our knees and ask

38:45

God to forgive us our sins and bring us back to a nation that was founded on Christian principles.

38:52

We have a lot of political things coming up, as everybody knows, in the next six, seven months.

38:58

So it's going to be quite a time of testing and trials for our nation and us as people.

39:07

Yeah. Good stuff. That's it, brother. Hey, I agree. And I'm glad that you called in and offered that clarification.

39:15

It's really good. So yeah. I appreciate it, man. Good stuff.

39:21

All right. And people should know, because we're not taught in our history books what an influence the

39:28

Bible and Christianity has had on our nation, going back to the beginning. And although many of the founders might not be what we would call evangelical

39:38

Christians, there's no doubt that the influence of the

39:43

Bible went a long ways towards us giving, you had mentioned the Declaration or the

39:49

Constitution, towards giving us what we call our natural rights. And our natural rights enshrined in the amendments to the

39:58

Constitution, at least the first 10, were essentially based on things that the government is not supposed to do.

40:06

They have no authority to grant us the authority to do those things.

40:12

We get them as a result of being creations of God. And that's why they excluded the government from imposing restrictions, unreasonable restrictions on our amendments.

40:26

And that was the basis for it, was a Christian worldview, not a Hindu worldview, not an

40:32

Islamic worldview, a Christian worldview. And that's what makes

40:37

America such a great place, because we've inherited that. Amen.

40:43

And tell them what you are retired from, if you don't mind. Well, I used to work for the federal government.

40:52

I was a U .S. Border Patrol agent for 26 years, and then

40:57

I retired from that. And Matt found out I had a little bit too much free time on my hand.

41:03

And so he rubbed me, shall we say, kicking and screaming, into helping out with some activities and farm.

41:11

And it's truly a blessing. Well, it's your fault for retiring, okay?

41:17

So it's like, hey, Dave, what are you doing? But you do a good job here at CARM, too.

41:23

So really appreciate it. And thanks for the clarification again, I really do. That's good stuff, man. That's a letter to my

41:29

Jefferson. All right, thank you, brother. God bless your listeners and you and our nation.

41:35

Thank you. Amen. All right. Good stuff. Good stuff. Good stuff. I've known Dave a long time.

41:41

He's a good guy. All right. Let's get to Daniel from Phoenix, Arizona. Welcome. You're on the air.

41:49

Hey, Matt. How's it going? Can you hear me? It's going, man. Oh, yeah, I hear you. Oh, okay. I hear you, man.

41:54

What's up? Yeah, I missed you. I heard you're at Apology of Church last week in Phoenix.

41:59

Yes. In Salt Lake City. Yes. How'd you hear that? Oh, Salt Lake City.

42:05

Oh, okay. Mm -hmm. I thought you were in Phoenix. No. Oh. Salt Lake City. Oh, okay.

42:10

You're at the one in Salt Lake City. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I was in a debate. About kind of what you guys were...

42:16

Sorry. It's all right. About what you guys were talking about as far as getting involved in legislation, that's kind of what we're doing right now in Arizona with Apology of Church.

42:31

Pastor Jeff Durbin, and I'm involved in helping him. There's this ballot initiative for abortion to amend the state constitution in Arizona.

42:44

And so, what they're doing is, people are going around and getting signatures, and they're trying to amend our state constitution to make abortion legal up until birth, is what this constitutional amendment will do.

42:56

Oh, murderous. Up to birth. And they're going around, and they're telling people, these petitioners, they're telling people it's only up to 24 weeks.

43:07

It's only up to viability. Up to the bill. So, they're lying.

43:13

Yeah. Exactly. And so, we want the church, which is asleep in Arizona.

43:20

I mean, they're asleep. We're trying to get them to join us in our efforts that we have.

43:30

That I'm not going to mention, but we have efforts. We're trying to get the church involved, but kind of like what you were saying in the last call, or what you were saying in the call before that, is this is why the church needs to be involved in legislation.

43:43

Yes, it is. The leftists, or the unbelieving worldview, dictate what the believers do.

43:52

And so, what do you think about, I was going to say, what do you think about the church, their inactivity, and specifically in regarding to what

44:05

I just mentioned, like the state constitution being amended, and how tragic that is going to be in 20, 30 years from now if they keep doing this, and how that could affect our generation by the church not stepping up.

44:27

What are your thoughts? Well, yeah, the church needs to step up. And it's just, they need to step up.

44:34

The church needs to get off its rear and start getting out in the streets and sort of behaving like Christians, instead of just hiding on a

44:42

Sunday morning. Yeah, that's what I say. Yeah, I was talking to Christians at work and stuff like that,

44:50

I'm trying to get them on board, I asked them this question. I say, tell the other members of your church who have a problem with politics or theonomy, ask them this question, do you want our legislators to glorify

45:04

God and writing laws into legislation, or do you not? Because if they answer yes to that question, then you tell them, okay, then what are you doing about this?

45:17

Right. And that's the mindset we don't have when we're thinking about these issues, like you said earlier, it just hit that person when you told them that.

45:32

When it comes to legislation, do we want God to be glorified in the laws that they write, or do we want the evil ones to be glorified?

45:41

Exactly. And that's why Christians, they need to be taught the principles that are so prevalent in Scripture about our involvement in all things of the world.

45:50

And it needs to be taught. But I think that if that were to happen, that pastors would lose congregation members, because people are acclimated to a weak

45:59

Christianity, a weak theology, a weak understanding of things. And that's probably what would happen.

46:07

But it needs to change. And it usually changes with persecution. It usually changes with persecution.

46:12

Exactly. Yeah. And I've called probably over 100 churches just in this last week, because of an event we have coming up, regarding these issues in politics.

46:26

And just crickets. Not one has said they're going to be attending. Just crickets.

46:33

Hundreds of emails. Hundreds of phone calls. And we've got to do better.

46:40

But I just wanted to hear your thoughts. That's right. It's called

46:46

Churchianity. Yep, you're right. And we've got about 30 seconds or so left of the show.

46:52

So say hi to the guys down there for me at Apologia. And keep up the good work.

46:58

It's good stuff. I'll let Jeff know you said hi. I've talked to Jeff. I haven't talked to him for about a year.

47:04

But we did a conference together up in Canada. And I got to meet him there. And I spent some time together.

47:10

He's a good guy. I've met James White, too. And they're great guys. Just say hi.

47:18

And keep up the good work down there. We need more people like them. Absolutely.

47:25

Oh yeah, absolutely. Thank you, and God bless. All right, man. God bless. All right, there we go.

47:32

There's the music. We are out of here. May the Lord bless you. And by his grace, back on here on Monday. Hope you have a great weekend.

47:37

And just FYI, we'll not be live on Thursday, Friday. Because it's the 4th of July weekend.

47:43

And there you go. So hope you all have a great evening. And by his grace, we'll talk to you next week.