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Welcome to the Whole Council Podcast. I'm John Snyder, and we have a special episode for you this week. We are introducing you to three ministries and the men that lead them.

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The first is David Woolen, and he is with Reformation Heritage Books. The next is

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Scott Brown, and he is with Church and Family Life Ministries. And then finally,

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Jeff Johnson, who is the head of Free Grace Press. Each of these was recorded differently, so be prepared for the differences in some of the audio.

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We've condensed these conversations so that we can fit them into one episode. But if you want the full content from the interviews, you can find that on YouTube and on the

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Media Gratia app, and the link to that is found in the description below. With me, we have a special treat.

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We have David Woolen with us from Michigan. David is the pastor of Grace Emanuel Baptist Church.

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He's also the executive assistant to Dr. Joel Beeky, and he is the

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CEO of Reformation Heritage Books. So, three pretty significant hats you wear,

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David. David is in our neck of the woods for some other business, and he was very gracious to come by and spend some time with us here for the podcast and to preach for us tonight.

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So, welcome, David. It's a delight to be here. We thought we would just introduce you to David and the ministry of RHB because the significant things the

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Lord is doing there, and we're very encouraged and want you to know more about it. So, tell us about some of the things that you're particularly excited about in the coming days with RHB, the projects you're doing.

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Yeah, we have a number of projects, which are kind of the long burn. So, right now we've completed the set of William Perkins, the architect, the father of Puritanism, sort of that linchpin between the pillars of the faith to the

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Puritans who are now saying, hey, okay, we agree. Wonderful. Now, how does this affect every area of my life?

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Very simplistically. Experiential Christianity. How does this impact everything I think, everything

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I do? And so, we're continually sort of on that treadmill of bringing out the classic individual books, individual sets.

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We have translators in Dutch, in Latin. And Rutherford, his works have still quite a lot in Latin.

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And so, this is not an inexpensive project to do. And so, we're ultimately coming out with 13 volumes, the first volume of which comes out at the end of this year,

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God willing. TJ's buying that for me. Okay. Well, bizarrely, it'll be volume two that comes out first.

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And then we'll plug in volume one. That's about the seventh volume we bring out. There's all sorts of reasons for that.

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And the Latin translation is a big part of that equation. But alongside the individual books and the interesting books, like we have a new

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Paul Washer book coming out in the spring this year on the preeminent Christ. But we also have those huge projects like we just signed contracts on the works of Thomas Watson, never been done before.

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We are reprinting a number of things as well. The works of Thomas Boston are coming this spring. So, that's a copy.

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It's a facsimile. But we're bringing it back into production because it's been out for such a long time.

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We are bringing out new editions of Matthew Henry's works, everything but the commentary.

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And there's about two volumes in there that's never been published before. Then we've got the works of Anthony Burgess that's just been signed.

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And so, that's coming over the next five years. I think that's eight volumes. And so, there's always projects like that on the treadmill, if you like, that are coming out.

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So, many to be excited about. And many kids' books that we're excited about as well.

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We're really trying to reach people and get people to read at a young age and keep them reading the right stuff where they can find the meat to chew on rather than all the fluff that you can get if you go into a random

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Christian bookshop today. So, personal question.

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If you were limited to just two or three good books, and your

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Bible, and you were going to be put on an island, what would you pick? Yeah, I know

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Dr. Beakey cheats here because he always goes for Phil Helmer's Soberacle, Christian's Reasonable Service.

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So, he picks a set? He picks a set as one book. So, I don't know if that's allowed.

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Then, you know, obviously, you'd go for something with substance and lots of volume. I think I could get away with the one volume,

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Matthew Henry. I think that would be a good one for me that would keep me going, and going, and going for year after year.

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Among my favorite books, I think the little

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Puritan paperback by John Bunyan, Come and Welcome to Jesus Christ, is just tremendous.

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He deals with all the objections to the free offer of the gospel, all the objections to election and predestination.

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He says what John 6, 37 says, just come. You know, you worry that you're not elect.

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You worry that you're not predestined. Well, you know what? Come. It says you will in no wise be cast out.

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Then, you are elect. Then, you are predestined. I just think that's just such a golden book for me.

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I could read that time and time again. There's another book that sort of marries another interest of mine.

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I love war history, and Normandy, and all of that kind of thing. It's a book from my old evangelical press days by a man called

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Don Stevens called War and Grace. Yeah, I've purchased that a number of times and given it to men of that generation who may not be converted.

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I think you can give it to teenagers and everything. It tells the individual stories of, you know, the guy who makes the gadgets and that kind of thing.

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The lesson that struck me and the story that struck me, and I don't even know how to say his surname, his last name, even till now, a man called

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Henry Gorecki. Henry Goreck, I don't know. I think he was the chaplain at the

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Nazi war crimes tribunal in Nuremberg. He had access to these,

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I think it was like eight guys who were the top leaders who were left after the war, who ultimately,

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I think, pretty much all of them were executed. He carefully, he says there is the strong possibility that two or three of some of the worst men you could ever imagine were converted before they were executed.

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And that just leaves me in awe at God, that even at that point in their lives, having done some of the most wretched things imaginable in that war,

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God's grace can still shine through. So I'm eager when

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I get to heaven to see if those were genuine conversions of some of the most notorious criminals ever.

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I hope so. Yeah. Psalm 110, you know, Christ's scepter stretched out, rule in the midst of your enemies.

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You know, as you mentioned, in the hearts of men that we might have thought unforgivable or too hardened, too despair -filled as they look back over what they've done, or indifferent, proud.

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You know, quite a great test of our understanding of the character of God. Does that thrill us, that we belong to that God, or does that bother us that God would forgive someone that bad?

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You know, well, I deserve forgiveness. I tried to do better. But those men, you know, it's quite a picture of our view.

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But I think once we realize the depth of our own sinfulness, we're in the same boat with them.

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And it's a misunderstanding. If we have a problem with God saving that kind of person, then we haven't understood the depth of our own sin.

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Yeah. One other book, and it's another set, and the set isn't finished yet.

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It started with Grace Publications, a little publisher in England. It's moved since to Christian -focused publications, and it's by a man called

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Nick Needham, 2000 Years of Christ's Power. And it's a readable church history.

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And he's got the fourth volume done now. I think he's still working on the fifth volume. But that is the volume that really first got me into reading about church history, and just the stories of Hugh Latimer, and Athanasius, and Augustine, and all these kind of things.

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And from there, I now drive around the north of England, and I can see, oh, yeah, that's where the Synod of Whitby happened in 664.

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And this is where Cromwell and his New Model Army had their battle, and all these kind of things.

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And you start connecting places with truth and events, and you start seeing

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God's continuing relentless plan of redemption in church history, even after the close of Scripture.

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And that's a real encouragement to me. I could read church history endlessly. Yeah, to realize that we are not dissected from those great days.

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I remember in doing the PhD, dealing with 18th century men, one of the things that the men in the revivals there in the

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UK felt—one of the things they felt would be essential in their witness to their community was to demonstrate that what

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God was doing, while it was extraordinary, it was not novel, that God had worked in extraordinary ways before.

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And so we have men like Newton and others who were not really great historians, but they took time to write a

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Christian history. And I thought, why would Newton write a Christian history? I mean, he's great at this, but he's not great at church history.

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But he and so many other of those 18th century men wanted to demonstrate the continuity of this ever, like you said, this relentlessly progressing kingdom of grace.

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And, you know, to pray that God would work in such a way in our day that we would have to turn and give an apologetic, an answer to those around us.

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How can something so extraordinary be biblical? And we could say, well, actually it is here.

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We see the work of our God. And, you know, it's hard to believe, but it's Him. Yeah, and the project we did with Mediagratiae on the

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Puritans, the opening screen was back in Jeremiah, look for the old paths.

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And it's looking at what God has done as a motivation to trust

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Him today and to step out in faith today. And if Christ tarries, I don't know, what will the church historians think of the 20th and 21st century

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Christians 400 or 500 years from now? What was God doing? Why can't we, well, maybe

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I rephrase that. We should believe in this big God. We should trust. We should step out in faith.

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We should be trying great things for Him. And I see a resurgence in interest in Reformed truth.

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Just in the simple statistics, the number of books going out, it's growing and growing.

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And I really pray that these truths contained within these books will impact the world and that God will move mightily.

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And let's stop settling for mediocrity in our own lives, in our church lives, and in our nations.

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We have a big God. I was just reading Numbers 13 and 14, and God sent these spies into Canaan to check out the land.

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He didn't send them to ask the question, should we go in? That was already settled.

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But they came out answering that question, we shouldn't go in, 10 of them at least. And they were looking at their own power, not

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God's power. And I think there's an element that we've lost that big view of God, of His wonder and majesty and sovereignty and power.

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And I believe that literature can have an influential impact on the church alongside the other means of grace.

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We want to introduce you to a man and a ministry and a book that you may not be familiar with, many of you will be,

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Scott Brown, with Church and Family Life Ministries. And Scott has recently published a book, and it's one that I've read and recommend.

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And I think that it could be one that, especially in this new year, one that might be really fruitful to just, it's a simple, clear statement about the family and the

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Christian view of the Sabbath and what the Puritans called the market day of the soul.

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And how, as parents, can we help our children to see that? How can we remind ourselves? So just very simple, practical things.

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So good to have you with us, Scott. Thank you, John. It's always a pleasure to see you. So just give us a quick intro to where you're pastoring and the ministry there.

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Yeah, I'm a local church pastor in Wake Forest, North Carolina. Hope Baptist Church, been doing that for about 20 years.

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And I also lead a ministry called Church and Family Life. And our mission is to proclaim the sufficiency of Scripture for church and family life.

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And so that's what we do. So the book we're looking at today is

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The Family at Church, How Parents Are Tour Guides for Joy, 20

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Days to Transform Your Local Church Experience. So let me just throw you a few questions, and that might be the best way for us to introduce the book to the folks.

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What caused you to take time from a busy schedule to write on this particular topic?

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Hey, the church is the most important place you ever take your family. When you think about it, the magnitude of the purpose of the church, to declare the glory of God, to disciple the nations, to evangelize, all the things that the church does, the church is the central matter.

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It's the central institution on the planet. So it's so critical. And I wanted to help families squeeze the greatest amount of good out of their local church life, whatever it might be.

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I'm not here to solve all the problems of your local church life, but I wanted to identify opportunities.

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I wanted to see how rich it could be. I wanted families to see how sweet it could be.

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I wanted them to understand they're in a really pivotal time in their life, and they should maximize the value of the local church, which is a treasure in the world.

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You call it a family field guide to the local church. Why that title?

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Well, because I think parents are supposed to be tour guides for their families in local church life.

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And I really want to encourage parents to understand the opportunity that they have. It's a field guide because there are lots of things that you do in the field.

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Local church life is really rich. There's a lot of things going on. You know, we could talk about the ordinary means of grace.

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We could talk about the relationships. We could talk about the preaching relating to the preacher. We could talk about the fellowship.

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There's just so many things going on. I wanted parents to understand they are like tour guides.

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Here's the deal. You're either a lousy tour guide or a really good tour guide. You know, everybody knows that.

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You've probably experienced some not so great tour guides.

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Parents should be, they should seek and practice to be great tour guides. So if you were to say the target audience, while this applies to quite a few different groups, what's really the target audience?

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Would you say parents? Yeah, young parents, young families. But not just your parents, because I have a lot in this book to talk to children about how to operate in the church too.

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But my main motivation for writing this book is I want to come alongside young families.

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I want to get them when their kids are little. I want to get them when they're early on the curve so that they can really max out the opportunity that's there.

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And healthier children love the church. So I really, I targeted this to young families.

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That's why the chapters are short. You can read them in 12 or 15 minutes. What I wanted to do is to have a book where a husband and wife could sit down, maybe in the evening while the kids are in bed, you know, read this thing together out loud for about 12 or 15 minutes and do that for 20 days.

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There are 20 chapters. But I really so desire young families to get off on a really good start in their local church.

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I want their children to be so happy to be part of a local church and to see all the great things that go on there.

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One of the things that you mention in the book is that, you know, a family coming together with other believers at church, that it can be, it ought to be a celebratory thing.

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So there's gravity. There's seriousness. We're dealing with eternal issues. And of course, sometimes, you know, when we look at the

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Psalms, it's appropriate that when we walk into the presence of the Lord together, there's a brokenheartedness at times, but that's not where He leaves us.

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That is, you know, to bring us again to the cross, where there is such a sense of perfection in our

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King, that we are free as children of a perfect Father, subjects of a perfect King, to be happy no matter what's happening, you know, in the ups and downs of my personal life or in the national life.

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I remember reading Hudson Taylor's two -volume biography, where he mentions how his parents went the extra mile to make

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Sunday the most special day of the week. They would have, you know, back then they weren't wealthy, so a dessert at a meal was pretty rare, but on Sunday, there was always a dessert.

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Dad was very busy during the week. Six He would give special time in the afternoon between the worship services to just spend time with the family, and, you know, he would take

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Hudson Taylor for a walk in the woods, and they would talk trees and botany and things that his son was interested in.

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So, you know, doing things that showed the children in practical ways that they could never forget that this was a special day.

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What do you think of, you know, what do you mean when you talk about it ought to be a day of celebration?

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Well, because there are so many things to celebrate. First of all, you're celebrating the

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King of Kings and the Lord of Lords, the God who created you. You're coming into the presence of the

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God who made you, who loves you, who knows your frame. You're coming together with people made in the image of God.

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Every person you look at has been made in God's image. They're very special, and they're different.

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They're all kinds of different people, you know, big people, little people, smart people, dumb people, foolish people, you know, everybody's there.

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And it's, I think that there's just, there's so much to relish in, and also people are in different moments in their life.

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Some are like on a rocket ship of joy. Others are despondent, something really bad's happened.

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Or maybe because of their experience in life, they have a, they've had a hard life.

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But you have all those different kinds of people, and so that's life, right? That's real life.

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And in the church, you celebrate real life with real people, with real joys, real problems, and hopefully you know, you get to know them, or at least many of them.

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So there's a lot to celebrate. We could talk about the celebration of the gift of preaching, right?

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We could talk about the celebration of all the different things that you do in the church. Yeah, it certainly is, especially,

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I think, you know, as we see social media through electronics become a larger part of people's lives, there are things that social media lacks that are not just good things, but are essential things in the

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Christian life, you know? And you've just mentioned many of them. Real contact with real people in all the different stages of life, you know?

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It doesn't require much sanctification to give a thumbs up, or to like, you know, an

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Instagram thing, or to say to someone, great job, you know, you're my hero.

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But to walk alongside another believer when they're not so impressive, you know, or for them to love you when you're on the verge of despair, or maybe, you know, you're proud and you don't even see it, but other believers see it, and they, you know, lovingly call you aside and say, hey man, guard that.

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Why drift? Those things are so valuable and are not found in other ways of connecting.

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Oh, let me take it another step. There's nothing in this culture like the experience in a local church.

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The relational depth, the diversity, you actually have responsibility. It's not like watching a movie. It's not like going to a concert.

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You're not just a passive person who's watching.

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You're interacting. I mean, you're interacting with everything. But really, there is nothing in this culture like a local church that has this rich diversity of experiences, and feelings, and responsibilities.

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I mean, it's an intellectual experience. It's a relational experience. It's interactive with God and people.

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This whole idea of fellowship, I mean, our gathering together is not like the

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Lions Club. I mean, there's a spiritual connection, you know, between the person and God, and all of us together.

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So, I just want to say, there's nothing in the world like the local church.

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Yeah, yeah, really there isn't. And you mentioned, you know, the dynamic of the vertical, that we're not just connecting with others, but it is in light of the reality of a

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God before whom we live. And that does drive it to depths that no other, you know, community on planet

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Earth deals with each other on those depths. Well, Scott, it is always encouraging to spend time with you.

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And even if we're, you know, a thousand miles apart, anything you would like to say as a closing comment?

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Well, the Church is the most important institution. The Church has the sweetest

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Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. The Church is composed of the people of God.

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The Church brings the living, inerrant, all -sufficient, sweeter -than -honey

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Word of God. And I want parents to really be thoughtful and power up and be very diligent during the years as they're raising children, and to absolutely squeeze the greatest amount of good out of whatever local church that you're in.

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I'm not here to fix all the problems in a local church, but I am here to say, hey, there's treasure over there.

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Go get the treasure. Yeah. We'll put a link to the book in our show notes.

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Again, the title is The Family at Church, How Parents Are Tour Guides for Joy, 20

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Days to Transform Your Local Church Experience. Thank you very much,

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Scott. Good to see you. And with me this week is a special guest,

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Jeff Johnson. And some of you may recognize Jeff's name or his image from the church study, and he did that with Mediagratia.

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We've been very happy with that and the way it's helped churches. Jeff is also on the board of directors with Mediagratia, and he is the pastor of Grace Bible Church.

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He's been there for 23 years. It started in Jeff's living room, which we've been talking before the episode.

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It's quite coincidental because Christ Church in New Albany is 23 years old now, and we started in a living room, similar kind of small group.

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Jeff's church is in Conway, Arkansas, but Jeff wears a number of hats. He is also the president of a seminary.

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It is Grace Bible Theological Seminary, and he is the executive, the head of Free Grace Press.

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And we want to talk about one book in particular from Free Grace Press today, a book called

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The Sovereignty of God, which I have read and want to recommend, and we want to let you know about such a beneficial, essential aspect of the

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Christian life to understand that He, our Lord, is king.

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He is essentially sovereign, and how does that work itself out into the everyday practical aspects?

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So, Jeff, good to see you. It's good to see you, John. Thank you for having me on your podcast.

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Jeff is joining us by Zoom, so Teddy has asked me to remind you that there may be some audio issues to get a little funny with our connection, but that's why.

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Free Grace Press has a very specific focus, Reformed Baptist material, and while we can find good

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Reformed Baptist material from other publishers, Free Grace Press really focuses in on that.

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So, one of the books that you published was from a man named

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Wilcox, and Honey from the Rock of Christ, and it's a book that should be read by every believer.

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It's on the doctrine of justification, and it states it so boldly that you almost feel like he's the

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Apostle Paul, and you want to say to him, now, you're not saying that we're free to just do anything we want to do, and he is not saying that, and he's clear there, but I remember listening to Lloyd -Jones say that if you preach the gospel correctly, you ought to be accused of being an antinomian occasionally, you know, like Paul, and, you know, because justification is so, just so, you know, magnificent and mountainous, and, you know, it just fills the heart, but when done right, it fills the heart with the desire to obey, with the motive, with the hope.

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This book on the sovereignty of God we feel is also really practical, but before we get to the book, any books that you guys have recently published or that you have on the horizon that you're particularly keen on?

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Well, we just published a book by a man named Lance Quinn who worked with John MacArthur for many years.

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Now he's in Florida. Good friend of mine, Lance Quinn, he put out a book that we just published called

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God Preacher Apologist, and it's very excellent talking about how, you know, we are preachers, we're going to be apologists, but the best preacher there is and the best apologist there is is

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God himself, and that God's, in his word, is the best proclamation of who he is and the best defense of who he is, and it comes from a presuppositional approach.

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Very, very well done, and I'm very excited about that. That book's done very well for us, and then we got a book coming out next month by an old

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Baptist. This is another one of those books like Thomas Wilcox that you just got through mentioning that's very good.

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His name is Cornelius Tyree, and it's called The Living Epistle, and he talks about the importance of the

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Christian life as a witness to the gospel and how we may share the gospel properly, and yes, we do need to use words when we evangelize, but if our life is not congruent with that gospel, it undermines our testimony, undermines the gospel, and how one of the best impacts upon an unbeliever is seeing a

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Christian live out the Christian life, that they have a different life, and it's a very practical book, helpful book, and that book there is really talking about the importance of godliness, so you take

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Thomas Wilcox's book on justification by faith alone, independent of works, pair it with this book, and you've got a great balance.

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Yeah, actually, I think it was I got an email from Free Grace Press this morning mentioning that book again.

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I stole a quote from it recently in speaking to the church where he talks about the best commentary on the scripture is a godly life, a holy life.

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Yes, you know, it is clear in scripture that God stamps these great realities, these doctrines that are so important, and precision is important, but He does stamp them into the lives of men and women, and you know, what might be for us a bit ethereal or, you know, complex when we're trying to read through a big thick book, when we see it lived out in the man next to us, and you know, in our friend that sits beside us on the pew, there is something beautifully simplifying about seeing doctrine demonstrated or exemplified in everyday choices.

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Yeah, it shows us that the God is supernatural, and that there is a God as evidenced by changed lives, by a life that's been renewed, converted, regenerated.

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Someone has gone from a life of sin, and Paul says, we know the gospels come to you.

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We know that you're elect of God, chosen of God, because you went from serving these dead idols to now serving the living

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God. There's been a radical transformation in your life, and that's essential to verifying to our unbelieving friends and family members that there is a real

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God, and it's truly evident by how we live our lives.

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Yeah. Well, the book, The Sovereignty of God, as I mentioned, really a very manageable treatment of this.

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It's just under 200 pages. The contents are laid out in three major sections, and I'll run through those quickly here.

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Part one is the foundation of God's sovereignty, and that's where Jeff deals with how the power, and the knowledge, and the authority of God are all united in this doctrine that we call sovereignty.

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The second part is the nature of God's sovereignty, and we see that expressed in His decrees, and in His rule over providence.

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You know, the everyday events of life for the individual, or worldwide, you know, international events.

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The third part, the extent of God's sovereignty. Where does it reach to?

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He is sovereign over nature, nations, salvation, sin, and suffering, and those last two really difficult things for us to wrestle through as we consider, you know, if I think for all of us, if you move from theoretical talk about the sovereignty of God over sin, and the sovereignty of God over salvation.

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The Bible is very clear on that, but it's easy to discuss it. It's a different thing to live through it, but the truths are true, and they can bear the weight of our hope.

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So Jeff, why, when a man is so as busy as you are, with three major, you know, investments of your time, why pick this topic?

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Yeah, I did this book for myself. Every time I write a book, I've written 12 books, and they're motivated by different causes or reasons.

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Sometimes I see a great need here, or I'm a great, I have a great burden. This book particularly was written because I was going through a low period of my own life, ministry, and going through some,

35:08

I guess, wondering, questioning about what

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God is doing in my life, and I knew that the remedy was the doctrine of divine sovereignty.

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I knew I needed to root myself back into what I already knew. So I've learned this doctrine a long time ago when

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I was a young man, but I knew that that was the answer, and so I began refreshing my mind on verses that would help me, and so I began writing, therapeutically writing down my thoughts, and one thing that's unique about this book, that none of my other books is like this, there's not one single footnote.

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There's not one single citation, and a lot of my work is deep research, and I have to spend a lot of time, and it drains me.

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It's tiring, and I wanted this to be not one of those books that I, it becomes laborious and work.

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I wanted it to be therapeutic, so I didn't quote anything other than the

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Bible, and so I just reviewed scripture, and then I took my thoughts, and put them together, and worked through it, and it was helpful.

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At the end of this book, reminding myself of what I already knew was able to pull me out of kind of the despair that I was going through, and to have a high view of God changes everything, and I'm convinced of that,

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John, that if we could just see God as who he is, it fixes a lot of our own problems, and that's what it was beneficial for me in writing the book, and so hopefully it has some benefit for others as well.

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In the book, you use the life of a World War II soldier,

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Sergeant Joseph Barr Sr. You use his life as kind of a backdrop, a thread to show in very practical ways, well, how does the sovereignty of God, how does it affect a life, or how is it seen in a human life, and it's very helpful.

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It just keeps the book from becoming, you know, kind of dry, or aloof, impractical feeling that you connect it to a person.

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How did you come across this man? Well, that's my wife's grandfather, and I knew him.

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He passed away several years ago, but I got to spend 10 years with him, basically, getting to know him, and I'm always fascinated with World War II, and this particular man, my wife's,

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Letha's grandfather, Joseph Barr, went through the entirety of the war. He entered the war in the

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North Africa campaign, goes all the way through that into Sicily and up the peninsula of Italy, and then he thinks he's coming home, but ends up being on the first waves of D -Day, survives that, goes all the way through the

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Battle of the Bulge, 42 battle at the end, 42 -day battle at the Battle of the Bulge. He's one of just a few people who survived.

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In the landing craft of D -Day, he was one of three people who survived the 25 people who was on his craft, and I think

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I counted like eight times he should have died that we know of, so his life is miraculously preserved, and I wanted to show how

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God had a purpose in every bullet flying and how every aspect of World War II was sovereignly controlled under the hand of God, and here's a real man that went through this, that lived through it, and there's no other way of saying it.

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He lived through it because of the divine providence of God, and at the end of the book, it's kind of a spoiler alert, but at the end of the book,

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I reveal who this man Joseph Barr is, that he's actually the great -grandfather of my children, and it makes me wonder if he didn't survive those near -death experiences over and over and over again, none of my four children would be alive.

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My wife wouldn't be alive, and how God's ordained their lives, therefore he preserved the life of Joseph Barr in a very tragic scenario,

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World War II, when many of his friends, most of his friends, did not make it. Well, it's good to have

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Jeff with us again, Jeff Johnson, author of this new book, The Sovereignty of God, with Free Grace Press, and so you can go to their website,

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Free Grace Press, and find that available. I wanted to end with a quote, Jeff, that as you were talking, one of my favorite quotes about the impact of thinking rightly about God, particularly big pictures of God, and how that helps us, is by a man named

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Saint Anselm, and Anselm said this, up now, get up now, slight man, flee for a little while your occupations, hide yourself for a time from your disturbing thoughts, cast aside your burdensome cares, and put away your toilsome business, yield room for some little time with God, and rest for a little while in him, enter the inner chamber of your mind, shut out all thoughts save that of God, and such as can aid you in seeking him, speak now, my whole heart, speak now to God, say to him,

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I seek your face, your face, Lord, will I seek. The opening part of that quote, up now, slight man, and flee for a little while your occupations, you know, your cares, finding the answer in him.

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Hmm. Well, thank you, Jeff. Thank you for writing this book, and thanks for spending time out of your busy day to talk with us.

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Oh, thanks, John, for having me on, and I appreciate what you're doing there, and all the work that Media Gratia is putting out.