Matt Slick Live: January 8, 2025

The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live!

Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm .org.

When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live! For answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Hello everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live.

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A lot of friendships have been made doing that. Maybe you can join. All right, having said all of that, well,

I got a frog in my throat all of a sudden. I'm going to, I'm going to do some emails here, so let's check this out.

Thank you for your help. Oh, it's already been going, an ongoing conversation, I see. Radio, no, that's, oh,

I already put it over there, that's why. So let's go here. And here it is.

I had a dream on December 30th. It was me. My pastor said, okay, ask

God to pour his spirit on him. As soon as he asked, he started raising out of the chair and speaking in tongues.

I could see myself, I could see his pastor, I could not hear myself, but he was speaking in tongues, bright in the dream, everything was normal, woke up and was still speaking.

I can't tell you what I was saying, or even what it sounded like, it's been on my mind ever since.

I don't know a lot about spiritual gifts, I was wondering if you could explain speaking in tongues. I've heard a lot of different things, and that they are different types of tongues.

Yes, that's true. The Raised of Baptists, I know a lot of Baptists believe that spiritual gifts are no longer needed.

All right. What I want to do is go through the scriptures. Now I'm going to tell,

I've got a confession here. I was a pastor at a church, in a reformed denomination, and they found out that I believe that the charismatic gifts can still be working today.

I don't believe in the wacko stuff, all this stupidity, but I said,

I believe that God can bring someone to speak in a tongue, in an evangelism setting.

That someone can have a word of knowledge about a certain situation. I believe this is all possible. Because of that,

I lost my pastorate. This became a big issue for me over the years, so I started studying.

I had studied, and that's the short version of everything, right? I'm reformed, and a lot of the reformed people have

God in a doctrinal box and don't want to let him out. But a lot of reformed people, they really love the

Lord and are great and very godly people. They just believe the gifts have ceased.

So what I'm going to do is make the case that the charismatic gifts are still for today. And what

I'm going to do is go to 1 Corinthians and read a little bit. So, it says here,

I think my God always concerning you, this is 1 Corinthians 1 verse 4,

I think my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you in Christ Jesus, that in everything you were enriched in him, in all speech and all knowledge, even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you, so that you're not lacking in any gift, waiting eagerly the revelation of our

Lord Jesus Christ. Now, it says that you're not lacking in any gift, the word gift there is charismata, charismati in the

Greek, while you're waiting for the revelation, the apocalypse, the apokalipsis in Greek.

So, this is what that chapter opens up with, Paul called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God and saw us and he's our brother to the church of God which is at Corinth.

I was just in Corinth a couple of months ago, I love being able to say that, it was great. To those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place, all who in every place, does that include us?

Yeah, today, yeah. All who in every place call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, our Lord and ours.

Did we do that? Of course we do. This is a universal statement, it's not just to the Corinthians, because a lot of the people who hold to what's called cessationism, that the charismatic gifts have ceased, they say with the completion of the canon, when the

New Testament was finally written, the last words were written by John in Revelation, the charismatic gifts are no longer necessary and I'll get to that, where they go for that and why it just doesn't work.

And so, Paul is writing to the Corinthian church and to us, just like he wrote to Romans, the

Roman church and to us, and he says that you're not lacking in any charismatic, awaiting eagerly the revelation or the return of Christ.

So that's a primary verse for me, that you're not to lack any charismatic gift, the church as a whole.

Now what I'm going to do is go to 1 Corinthians 13, and I'm going to go through this, and it says, starting in verse 8, love never fails, but if there are gifts of prophecy, and the word gifts is not in the

Greek, it's a borrowed term from earlier in the text, but we'll get into that. If there are prophecies, they'll be done away with.

You see, prophecies of charismatic gifts, they'll be done away with. If there are tongues, they will cease, and if there's knowledge, they'll be done away with.

Now, what does knowledge mean? Well, maybe the charismatic gift called the word of knowledge. Now check this out, this is 1

Corinthians 13, verse 9, for we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.

Now we're going to get into this, I'm going to explain some stuff. What is the perfect? Well, people say the perfect is the completion of the canon, that the

Bible is completed, and that's the perfect. And when the perfect comes, when the

Bible is written, the partial will be done away.

And they say, when I was a child, I used to speak as a child, think like a child, reason like a child, but when

I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now, we see in a mere dimly, but then, face to face.

Now, slow down a little bit. What's the antecedent of then? The antecedent means, what is the word referred to previously?

Ante before, the antecedent, what is it referring to?

The then is referring to when the perfect comes, see? For now, we see in a mere dimly, but then, when the perfect comes, face to face.

So, what I did was, I did a study on the term face to face.

In fact, I'll do it right now, face to face, all right?

And I'm going to put it in italics, I mean, not italics, in quotes, and it occurs 13 times in the

NASB Bible, 13 times. Let's see what God says about face to face.

Is the Bible, when it's completed, is that when we see face to face? That's what it says.

So, Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, I've seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved.

How about Exodus 33 .11? Then Moses would speak to God face to face, just as a man speaks to his friend.

It means personal encounter, right? Deuteronomy 5 .4, the

Lord spoke to you face to face at the mountain, from the midst of the fire. Face to face, personal encounter.

This is an encounter with someone. It's meeting someone, dealing with someone, okay?

In Deuteronomy 34 .10, since that time, no prophet has arisen in Israel like Moses, whom the

Lord knew face to face. We know what that means, right? In Judges 6 .22,

when Gideon saw that there was an angel of the Lord, he said, Alas, O Lord God, for now I have seen the angel of the

Lord face to face. You've seen him, personal encounter. And it goes on like this, all right?

We go to the New Testament. It says, in Acts 25 .16, I answered them that it was not the custom of the

Romans to hand over any man before the accused meets his accusers face to face. And we're in this verse, 1

Corinthians 13 .12. But let's go to 2 Corinthians 10. Now I, Paul, verse 1, now

I, Paul, myself urge you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, I who am meek when face to face with you, but bold towards you when absent.

I mean, this goes on. Face to face means a personal encounter. That's what it means.

So check this out. When the perfect comes, we'll see face to face. Is that the

Bible? When the Bible is completed, that's how we see face to face? It doesn't fit.

Now, I'm going to just tell you a little bit of history, because there's nobody calling, nobody waiting right now. Let's tell you, I'll kind of stretch this out a little bit, because this is true.

This is what happened. And when I was being reexamined for the pastorate in the Presbyterian Church in America, the

PCA, they found out I affirmed the continuation of the gifts.

And there's a reason why I did, and I got let in. That's a whole other story. No big deal. But they asked me to write a paper in response to a couple of books that they wanted me to read, why the gifts have ceased.

And so I read the books. They were bad. Sorry, but they weren't any good. And this section of scripture here, 1

Corinthians 13, 8 through 13. I mean, I think it was two pages in one book. One of the two books was all it addressed, and didn't even do a good job.

It was bad. So when I wrote the paper and I gave it to them after the second or third meeting, they said, you're not holding to what we want you to hold to.

I said, no, I have to hold to what scripture, what I believe scripture teaches. And this is what cost me the pastorate.

Okay, they said, well, we think you're great and good preacher and godly man, but you don't fit into this.

Now what happened, the reason I was able to be a pastor is because in the PCA in the Southern California Presbytery, they let a guy in who had the exact same view

I did on the charismatic gifts, and that's why I went to the PCA. And then when I told them that you let this guy in, they said, yeah, that was a mistake.

So I had to suffer for their mistake, and it gets in. And they're godly people, I'm not knocking them, they're just godly people.

So I brought this up, and I've written on this, okay, and I've talked about this. So when the perfect comes, is that the

Bible? That's what we see face to face, have a personal encounter with God? Or is it the revelation, the apocalypsis, the return of Christ, as 1

Corinthians 1 .7 says? See, that's the question, right? Because when you go to 1

Corinthians 1 .7, it says that the church, there is not to lack any charisma, charismatic gift, while you're waiting for the return of Christ.

That's what Paul says, that's what it says, right there in 1 Corinthians 1 .7. You're not to lack any gift.

I will get back after the break, I'll continue with this. And then we can take calls if you want, we can talk about stuff.

We'll be right back after these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. If you want to call me, 877 -207 -2276.

Actually, you should call me at the number. You can call me those numbers, but it won't work. So there you go, 877 -207 -2276.

All right, so let's go on a little bit. I'm going to spend some time on this, okay? So as long as no one calls,

I'll just keep teaching, all right? So check this out. Now check this out. Remember the word antecedent.

What does the then refer back to? It's when the perfect comes. The cessationists routinely say it's the completion of the

Bible. Then you don't need anything else. But I don't see that. It says, so now we've seen a mirror dimly, but then face to face.

So I went over and I showed you that, okay? Now I know in part, but then I will know just, fully know, just as I have been fully known.

What does that mean? Well, it just so happens, I did a study.

Years ago, I discovered something. God only knows believers.

Now he knows all things. But Jesus says, my sheep hear my voice and I know them. And that's

John 10 -27. And Matthew 7 -23, he says, get away from me. I never knew you.

In Galatians 4 -8, when you did not know God, you served by nature, those which are not

God's. But now that you've come to know God, or rather are known by God, I've come to serve a true living

God. So this issue of being fully known is a phrase that deals with God knowing you.

Now, he knows us if we're Christians and we're saved in that sense. If he says on the day of judgment,

I don't know you, that means you're in trouble, okay? So here he says, then

I will know fully, just as I have been fully known. And now there's no proof of my understanding of this, but I think what he's doing here is talking about that return of Christ.

We'll be fully known by him in all that the pleasure and relationship of face -to -face encounter with Jesus will bring the resurrection, redemptive work, and all of that, to fully, he knows us.

He's got promises waiting for us. That's what I see it mean, okay? So when

I presented this paper to the examination committee, two

PhDs and a D -min, a doctorate of ministry, D -min, not

D -min, doctor of ministry, two PhDs. No, it was actually two

PhDs and an M -div, and an M -div. That reminds me, if you guys want sometime a good story,

I'll tell you when I had lunch with J .I. And what I said to him, this is a good story, I tell it every now and then, it's a good story, but it's way off topic.

Okay, now, so I presented the paper to them. I knew that this was gonna cost me a great deal, and it did.

And I won't get into the details that it did, but it cost me immensely, it did. Years and years and years of trouble, and financial difficulties and stuff like that, because I couldn't be a pastor.

And then in order to go back into the pastorate, you have to become a member of a church, a denomination. Then you have to be there for two years.

Then you gotta go through internship, and all this stuff. I couldn't do it, I had a family, and I had to work secular jobs.

And this really, it sent me back immensely, and financially too. But I had to do what

I believed was right before God. And my wife, when I told her, I said, I'm gonna answer according to what

I believe scripture teaches, it's gonna cost me the pastorate. I don't know how God's gonna provide. And he said,

I mean, excuse me, she said, you do what you gotta do. She stood by me. Good woman, except for her taste in men, but she's a good woman.

So that's what I believe about the charismatic gifts. Are these for today?

Of course they are. Of course they are, biblically. I see nothing in scripture that says they're done.

Now, I do know people who say that they're finished. They just don't exist anymore.

And they're reformed. They're slimy Calvinists like me. Well, guess what? John Knox, well, he started

Presbyterianism. He prophesied about the death of a certain king and queen.

I won't read all the stuff, but it's documented on one of my websites. If you guys wanna know what that is,

I can tell you where it is. And Robert Fleming, he died in 1694.

I'll read some of what he said. He was in a church. The strange and extraordinary impression

I had of an audible voice in the church at night when, being a child,

I had got up to the pulpit, calling me to make haste. He says, the extraordinary dream and marvelous vision

I had twice repeated with the inexpressible joy after the same. The dream at Bruxelles, where I got such express warning as to my wife's removal.

And those great and single confirmations given me at my wife's death. And that great extraordinary voice, so distinct and clear, which

I heard a few nights after her death. And then we have George Wishart, he died in 1546.

He received a letter directing him to go to a friend in a certain area.

This is up in Scotland, okay? And acquainting him that he had taken a sickness and requested him to come to him with all diligence.

Upon this, he immediately set out on his journey, attended by some honest friends. They had not traveled above a quarter of a mile when all of a sudden he, that's

George Wishart, he's a Calvinist. Don't let anybody know I said that, but he's a Calvinist. When he all of a sudden stopped saying to the company,

I am forbidden by God to go this journey. Will some of you be pleased to ride to yonder place, pointing his finger up a little on the hill there, to see what you find?

For I apprehend there is a plot against my life. Whereupon he returned to the town, and they who went forward to the place found about 60 horsemen ready to intercept him, and the letter had been forged.

Now, did you know that there, you know, in these Calvinist churches, they wouldn't let

George Wishart, Robert Fleming, or John Knox in their pulpit, because they moved in the charismatic gifts.

Well, you know, John Knox prophesied. Now, yeah, so this is the kind of stuff that I say on the radio, where people who are cessationists, maybe reforms, go,

I'm not having that guy ever in my church ever teaching or preaching, okay? They close the door.

That's fine. I don't care. I'm just telling you what the history is, and an exegesis out of 1

Corinthians 13, 8 through 13. If you got a better exegesis, show it to me. And if not, well, then are you being biblical?

And there you go. So I can go in more about this. I can go to, maybe I'll do it. Just go through 1

Corinthians 14 and start talking about the charismatic gifts, and what it means, and an experience

I had personally. And movements of the gifts. Now, I'm not pointing to myself.

I'm not saying, hey, look at me, I'm all spiritual. No, no, no. I'm just saying, when I talk to people about this, and I say,

I know a guy who, I'm talking about myself, but I don't tell them that. And I tell them the experience, and they'll say, well,

I did this at seminary once, maybe I'll tell you, after this caller. And I said, blah, blah, blah, this happened.

He goes, it didn't happen. I said, how do you know? Because it can't happen. I said, well, what if you meet the guy?

Well, it doesn't matter, it doesn't happen. I said, but I'm the guy. I don't care what you say, it didn't happen. I mean,

I've had that happen to me. People just say it doesn't happen. I believe we need to be loyal to scripture above confessions and church councils.

That's my opinion. Let's get to Carl from North Carolina. Carl, welcome, you're on the air, buddy. Hey, Matt.

I've got a question. You know, in the Bible, it says that no man has seen the

Father and lived. And, you know, I know when we're on break, sorry. Okay, man, if I'd have been paying attention,

I would have waited for the break. Hold on, and we'll get right back to you after the break. You're talking about 1

Corinthians 6, 16. Folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live!

Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Carl. Sorry about that timing there, Carl. All right, buddy, you're on the air.

Hey, Matt, the question is, you know, I know in the Old Testament that the people who are in the presence of the

Lord, like Moses, Elijah, Enoch, they were in the presence of probably

Christ, I'm under the impression, because it says that no man has seen the Father and has lived.

But with that being said, when people are in heaven in the presence of Christ, will they actually be able to view the

Father too or not? No. He dwells in unapproachable light who no man has seen or can see.

We're going to be men in heaven. Of course, women are women, but it's talking about generically. And so, no, he dwells in unapproachable light who no man has seen or can see.

Now, in Acts chapter 7, 55 through 60, Stephen is being stoned, and he has a vision, and he sees the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand.

It doesn't say he saw God the Father, but the glory of. It's very important because the unapproachable light of which

God is, that's what Stephen was seeing, not the Father himself. And so, whenever they were seeing

God in the Old Testament, it was the pre -incarnate Christ. So, in the sense that you're talking about,

Stephen, also, in a sense, how Moses had to go into the crevice because of the glory of God, he could not visualize or else he would perish.

Is that... Yes. Yeah, because in Exodus 33, 11, it says, you cannot see my face for no man can see me and live.

But in nine verses later, in verse 20, God spoke to Moses face to face.

But yeah, he had to put him in a crevice, and the glory of God passed by him. So, we can make the case that that was the

Father. Make the case, you know, there's some debate. The case, so...

Yeah. So, this is an interesting time. So, that glory kept on... Yeah, that glory kept on Moses when he walked down the hill back to the people for a temporary period of time.

Was there a reason why Moses had to put the veil over his face so, like, the glory of God could not be presented to the people?

Why did he do the veil on his face when he came down? Yeah, that's a good question. Why did he veil himself?

I think it tells us, but I'm not exactly sure. So, that's a good question.

I'm trying to remember, but I think it had to do with just simply the glory was there, it was too much. And so, he had to hide his face because it would have...

It would probably really upset people, you know? Yeah, okay. Yeah. All right.

All right, man, I appreciate the answer and I appreciate your ministry. All right, man, well,

God bless. Okay. God bless you, too. Bye -bye. All right, you too. Thanks. All right, so I think what

I'm going to do is... Get back on the issue. So, I think people need to know about this stuff.

And so, I think what I might do, just to do it, charismatic gifts,

I'll do it again. Here we go. I'm going to go through 1 Corinthians 14 because we just went to the issue of when the perfect comes, all these charismatic things are going to be done away with.

We won't need them then because when Jesus is here personally, we're with him. We've been raptured.

We've been transfigured, whatever you want to call it. Then, we're not going to be needing these things, these movements.

Well, that was, you know, I exegeted 1 Corinthians 13, 8 through 12, in verse 13, the last chapter, excuse me, the last verse of that chapter says, but now faith, hope, love abide these three, but the greatest of these is love.

The next chapter, just a chapter division, but in the Greek, there's no chapter division, pursue love, yet earnestly desire spirituals, spiritual.

Now, most translations say spiritual gifts. It's not the Greek word charisma. It's the

Greek word pneumatica, pneumatic, wind, spirit, things like that.

So, it's pertaining to the nature of spiritual things. And he says, pursue love, yet earnestly desire spiritual things, those spiritual things, okay, but especially that you may prophesy.

Now, so now we know that the spirituals he's talking about are the charismatic gifts. Okay, all the apostles sang on this.

Now, he's saying it to the Corinthians. Since the previous chapter about when the perfect comes, the imperfect shall be done away with, then we'll see face to face, and then we'll be fully known.

I'm just absolutely convinced it does not mean the perfect is the Bible. And I know people, there's good people who say it does.

Well, you know, I'd say, come on the air, give me your position, and let's see if I can poke holes in it or not. But at any rate, so he says, for one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God.

For no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. The implication here is if you're speaking in a tongue, you don't know the language.

Okay, doesn't speak to men but to God, for no one understands. Now, what would be the case there? It might possibly be a reference back to 1

Corinthians 13 verse 1, if I speak with the tongues of men and of angels. So, it seems to me that there's a communication language of some sort with the angels.

And he says, if we speak with tongues of men or of angels, we don't have love, you're just wasting your time.

So, I don't know what the proper understanding of this is. The Bible isn't really clear, super clear here, but we can look at it and we can think and we can talk about it, okay?

For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. For no one understands, no one understands.

So, that would mean that it's not the kind of tongue that's another language that someone in the room could understand, like a group of people, in a metropolitan kind of a context.

But in his spirit, he speaks mysteries. Now, that would tell me that it's either a language that's dead and no one knows presently, or an angelic language, or possibly speaking in a language that is known today, but that person who's speaking it doesn't know, okay?

But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification, exhortation, and consolation.

Now, a lot of times people say what prophecy is, is telling the future.

But look what it says in 1 Corinthians 14 .3. But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification, exhortation, and consolation.

And so, this is from the Greek, Propheteouon.

It's a hard word sometimes to guess some of these and say them. And what

I'm going to do is, it's 4395. I'm going to look at it. How many times?

Okay, 4395. And it occurs 28 times, which is interesting.

It's seven times four. I don't know if that means anything. I just like numbers. And so, it says prophesy in your name, the law and the prophets prophesied until John, prophesied to us, rightly

Isaiah prophesied you hypocrites. So, we know that the word prophecy talks about forth -telling and future -telling, but here it seems to be the issue of edification, exhortation, and consolation.

So, some people have interpreted the word prophecy here in 1 Corinthians 14 to mean a kind of speech and or preaching kind of exhortation kind of a thing where it's powered by the

Lord right then and there, and people are convicted. People are exhorted.

They have a better understanding of the faith, and things like that.

There's others who say, well, it could be that, and it could be a prophetic thing of speaking the future. And if that's the case, well, then someone who has a future thing spoken over them, and then it comes to pass, that would edify them and exhort them and consolation to them as well.

And I had an experience once where I did that very thing. I actually prophesied over a girl and the future in detail, and it came to pass.

It did. And this is the example I use of people sometimes, and I'm not pointing to myself. This happened,

I don't know, 40 years ago or longer, but I've only had that happen once like that, just one time.

So I'm not pointing to myself. I'm just saying one time this happened, and I recount this story every now and then.

But anyway, it says, one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, because the Spirit is speaking through that person, and it's edifying his spirit.

But who prophesies edifies the church. That's why some think that preaching is a form of prophecy and the proclamation and the presenting of in a powerful way.

This is some of the interpretations I've heard, okay? Now, I wish that all of you spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy.

And greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets so that the church may be edified.

Now, notice what this is going on for. Now, I'm going to take a couple of callers. We'll get to them. But here's the thing.

I want you to understand something before the break. What's the purpose of tongues and prophecy?

The edification of people and then the church. Not for your own glory, not for your own aggrandizement, and not for these wackos on TV who tell each other jokes in tongues and laugh, and everybody starts speaking in tongues, and they do all this all at once in the church, out of order, and they just do it, in my opinion, to show off and be spiritual.

That is not how it's to be done, and this kind of stuff is ridiculous, and I speak against it, but I believe that God certainly can cause people to speak in a language they don't understand for their edification and the edification of someone else, to give them a prophetic utterance that is predicting the future, as well as a profound proclamation of the truth that is authored and empowered by God.

He could still do those things today, and I don't want to have God in a doctrinal box. I don't want to confine

Him. I want those movements. I want that because the Bible says, pursue these things. That's what it says in 1

Corinthians 14, verse 1. We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live!

Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877 -207 -2276.

I could have done a lot more about the charismatic stuff. There's a lot more to talk about, but I hope that's interesting and whets your appetite.

Let's get to June from North Carolina. June, welcome. You're on the air. Hello. Hi, thanks.

Sure. Hello. Hi. So what do you got? Hello? Yes. Hey.

Okay. I think I'll have a pretty quick question. Okay. Sorry, I'm out of breath. That's all right.

I'm trying to find a good church. Okay. In Greensboro. Mm -hmm.

And I've been streaming, and the one I found that I think I like is non -denominational, but he's got an associate pastor that's a woman and got a couple of really good ones that fill in for him that are males, but I'm not sure about the woman associate.

I streamed, and, you know, when I saw she had done two sermons in his absence and I don't know if I should have a problem with that or not.

I mean, what do you think? Women are not to be pastors and elders in the church, and the churches that affirm them

I would never trust because they can't get that right. That is what I thought you'd say. That's right.

Oh, it is breaking my heart because I want to go to church, but I can't find one in this city that is worthy.

Really can't. I wouldn't go there. It's sad. Yeah, I wouldn't go there.

The only one I like. What am I going to do? Well, just continue to look for a good church.

But I would also, if you're interested in doing something like this, some people are not interested because they don't like the idea of confronting a pastor on this, but if you go to karm .org

and you type in, let's see, what is it? Women pastors hand this to them.

Let's see if I can find it. I've got it in the women in ministry section. Let's see, another response.

Can women be pastors and elders? Tracked on women pastors, there it is. Tracked on women pastors. There's another one.

Email this to churches that affirm women pastors and elders so you can print up the track and you can hand it to them.

I'll tell you what will happen. He'll dismiss it. He'll say it's okay to have women pastors and elders.

Now, I'm a troublemaker. Not that I want to, but I believe this is a very serious issue.

I'm going to tell you that in my research on this, 80 % of the churches that adopt women pastors, 80 % of the church's denominations that adopt women pastors within two generations are pro -homosexual.

80%. Oh my goodness. I have the documentation. I did the research years ago.

It's so sad. It broke my heart.

Actually, I'm not kidding you. I was heartbroken. I just feel like I know

I need to be in the body of Christ. I know I do, but I cannot go if I'm not being fed. I just can't do it.

There's no point in it. I hate it. Why don't you print up the stuff and give it to them?

I will. The Bible says to give an answer to everyone who's asking you, 1 Peter 3 .15, can you respond to this please?

They're going to find ways to get around it, but you've done your job, and stuff like that.

I agree. You're going to be absolutely right. It's going to be dismissed. I'm just going to keep searching.

Let me ask you this. Is there a certain denomination that you think is the one

I should be looking at? I went non -denominational. I'm not sure why.

What is your take on denominations? Denominations can be good.

I'm going to give you a link to go to also, to find a church in your area. Generally speaking,

Calvary Chapel... You are so awesome. Tell my wife that. Put her on the phone.

Get her on the phone and let me tell her. Actually, someone did call the office once and said,

Are you Mrs. Schlick, you guys? You're our husband's office. Did he put you up to this? She goes,

I've got to go now. She is a fortunate, fortunate woman.

I really admire you. I like to listen to you as much as possible. I trust your judgment.

I've been fighting with this for a minute. I just decided I'm sick of it.

I want a resolution. You may help me. I am ready. Calvary Chapel basically is good.

They don't have women pastors and elders. But they are pre -trib, pre -millennial rapture stuff. Which I don't agree with.

But that doesn't mean it's not a good church. Then there are a lot of good churches that are Baptist.

But the Baptist denominations are starting to go south. The PCA, Presbyterian Church in America, is pretty good.

But I've heard a couple of things. But I'm not sure. It's almost like you've got to just take your chances.

What I recommend you do is go to the CARM website. C -A -R -M dot

O -R -G Go there and look up what to look for in a church.

What to look for in a church. That's what I would do. It will give you a list of things to look for.

Then what you can do if you find churches in your area. Then what you can do is go to their website and look for the staff.

If they have women pastors and elders. Forget it. And you can look at... Yeah, I've done that. Good. Okay.

I have done that. I did not do it for the church that I thought that... You know, he's speaking the word.

I mean, he's doing all the right things. And his heart's in the right place. You know these things if you spend any time in the word.

You understand these things. And so I was very encouraged until I ran across that.

So you're right. I will do that. I'll start going through and looking at some of the...

The way I found her was from a lot of things in their archives.

From just, you know, things that they left online for certain sermons. And I saw a woman and I was like, okay, she's just going to do the introductions.

Or, you know, get the business out of the way. And the pastor's going to come up. But no. So that's a good point.

I will do that. I will go through their websites. So I'm going to try some Baptist then.

Some are good. So there's a website I can direct you to. And it has a search feature for churches in the area.

I'm not saying it's perfect. Oh, good. But it's a good feature, okay? Okay. T -M -S.

T -M -S. You know, Tom, Mary, Samuel. T -M -S dot E -D -U.

Okay. And then forward slash find a church. Find hyphen A hyphen church.

Find our church. And then you can put in the information you need and it will recommend churches in your area.

Okay. Good. I may start with the Presbyterian of America. That one actually sounds...

P -C -A. Presbyterian Church of America is okay. P -C -U -S -A is bad. Presbyterian Church United States of America.

That's bad. And here's a rule of thumb. Here's a rule of thumb.

When you have a church or a denomination that has the word united in it, 95 % of the time it's bad.

I don't know why, but it just is. The exception to that is United Reformed Church. That's a good church.

But United Reformed is good. And it's a little traditional for my taste.

Too traditional. But, you know, people like different things. So if it has the word united in it, red flag right away.

Okay? Red flag. It doesn't mean it's bad. What was the one that you just... Yeah, I got you. United Reformed.

What was the one that you just said was good? Yeah, United Reformed. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Thank you so much. Okay. Yes. I'm going to sleep better tonight, my friend. Thank you so much.

You're welcome so much. On a good track. Appreciate you. All right. Well, God bless. God bless you.

Okay. Bye. Bye. All right. Now, we've got somebody waiting kind of on hold here at the call.

I'm not sure what's happening with that yet. We'll figure that out. But if you want to give me a call, the number is 877 -207 -2276.

And, yes, I did say women are not to be pastors and elders because they're not supposed to be.

And it's a scriptural thing. Let me go through the verses. I'll quickly do this and show you why women are not to be in that position.

Now, just so you know, Adam and Eve were in the garden, and she sinned first.

But sin entered the world through Adam, not her. Romans 5 .12.

Sin entered the world through one man because he was in this place of authority, spiritual teaching. Now, Paul says in 1

Timothy 2 .12 and 13, I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but remain silent or quiet.

For it was Adam who was first created and then Eve. Paul is tying this into the created order.

That's 1 Corinthians 2 .12. Now, in chapter 3, he talks about overseers.

And he says that they must be husband of one wife. An overseer, that's the

Greek word episkopos, which is often rendered as bishop. Deacons, likewise, must be men of dignity.

That's what it says. These men must also first be tested. That's what deacons, that's what the

Bible says. People are shocked. What? That's what it says. And then in the same chapter, 1

Timothy 3 .15, he says, Just in case I'm delayed, I write so that you may know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God.

He's giving instruction on what they're to do in the church, the Christian church. And it's not cultural because he's tying it to the created order because Adam was first created.

Now, but wait, there's more. And what we have, if you go to Titus 1,

For this very reason I left you in Crete, this is verse 5, That you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you.

Pointing elders. Now, what I'm going to do is go over to 1 Timothy 5 .17 and read you something.

We'll come back here. The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor,

Especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. So automatically we can say that a pastor is an elder.

The elders are worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. 1

Corinthians 5 .17. Okay? So an elder or pastor is an elder, but not all elders are pastors.

Okay? All right. Now, Paul says in Titus 1 .5, For this very reason

I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains And appoint elders in every city as I directed you.

Namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife. Having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion.

For the overseer, there's that word episkopos again, must be above reproach. As God's steward, not self -willed, not quick -tempered, not addicted to wine or pugnacious,

Not fond of sordid gain. Okay? But holding fast to the word of truth.

So that he'll be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and refute those who contradict. The elders are supposed to be able to know biblical doctrine and refute those who don't know.

Now, the elders that you know, can they do that? Just a question. Are they qualified? Just a question.

So how is a woman the husband of one wife? In the Greek, it's, ἀνέρμειας γυναίκας.

Man of one woman. A husband of one wife. That's what's going on. How does a woman fit that? Right there, in the short thing

I gave you, That demonstrates that women are not to be pastors and elders. And 80 % of the denominations and groups that go that way,

Within two generations, start approving of homosexuality. Why? Because they're not submitting themselves to the authority of God's word.

They're submitting the authority of God's word to the culture and the times, Which way the doctrinal wind's blowing. They need to stop that.

We're out of time. May the Lord bless you. By His grace, back on air tomorrow. Talk to you then. Another program powered by the