The Asbury Revival?

The Asbury Revival and the Question of Biblical Revival

Today on the Theology Throwdown, we are going to talk about, well, a topic that many others have talked about before, but we're going to give you a lot of different views maybe on it. The Asbury Revival.

We're going to talk about what is a revival, what's a revival look like, how can we identify one and was the Asbury Revival a real revival or not? There's been lots of discussion on it, but this is going to be a Theology Throwdown.

Welcome to another Theology Throwdown. This is where all of the podcasters at the Christian Podcast Community get together and discuss theology. We don't all agree on all of our theology. We agree on the main premise, the main tenets of Christianity, but we have over 50 podcasts.

I think we're getting close to 60 now. We don't all agree theologically on everything, but we do agree that Christ should be glorified in everything. That's what we hope to do as we talk about the Asbury Revival.

That's the topic for tonight. What I want to do is, as we usually do, start off by introducing those podcasters who are here in discussion with us tonight so that you get to hear their names and voices and know their podcasts.

You would go to christianpodcastcommunity .org, check out all the shows, and you'll be able to find each of these podcasts out there. We do have some first-timers to this podcast with us, so we're going to get to them as well.

Garrett, I'm going to ask you, you were the first one in, if you want to introduce yourself and your podcast for us. Sure.

I'm Garrett Hampton. I'm the producer of the Schoolhouse Rocked podcast, which is hosted by my beautiful wife, Yvette, and is all about homeschooling and Christian worldview. I'm also the director of Schoolhouse Rocked, the homeschool revolution of feature-length documentary on homeschooling.

You can stream that for free now at schoolhouserockedmovie .com.

Okay. You're wearing an awesome t-shirt, so I just got to do it. Could you tell everyone what your t-shirt says for those who are listening, and then tell them where they can get that for homeschoolers that need that t-shirt, because, well, I think they do.

Yeah. Every homeschool dad needs this t-shirt, especially. It says, Proudly Raising Unsocialist Homeschoolers. You can get it at our store, schoolhouserocked .com. Oh, that's so good.

Aaron, you're next up. If you wouldn't mind introducing yourself and your podcasts, because you have two. Yes, sir.

Well, my name is Aaron Michael Brewster, otherwise known as AM Brewster. My very first podcast was called Truth, Love, Parent. It's been going now since 2016, over 500 episodes. There's a ton of stuff that happens in parenting, but I'd say I think we've talked about a great deal of it.

In fact, our most recent series was kind of an overview of the past 500 or so episodes, and it's called The Biblical Parenting Essentials. So I'd encourage you, if you're a first-time listener, go check that out.

And then we have The Celebration of God, and Celebration of God is all about worshiping God better this year than we did last year. It's all about worship, discipleship, maturity, growth. And we do that both in the high days, the holidays on the Christian calendar, but we also worship God in the low moments, those mundane, weird Thursday afternoon at 2 .37 times.

So those are the two podcasts. And I will just say something really exciting. If you go to evermindministries .com, that's where you can see all of the ministries, Truth, Love, Family is part of that, and Yearlong Celebration of God is part of that.

But I'll say that we are producing an app. So excited. The podcasts, you can listen to them on the app, but you can also get access to our growing library of resources. So the app is actually live. You can search the iOS app store for that right now.

But anyway, it's growing, and I'm super excited about all that. And what's the name of that app? The app is actually just called Evermind Ministries. Evermind Ministries. Yep. And the logo's wrong. The wrong logo updated.

So I have to update that, whatever else. But yeah, I'm super excited about all the cool stuff. And you can listen to the podcasts on there as well. All right.

You just got one more download. And see, I always thought the M in AM Brewster was mischievous, but okay. Malicious. That works too. So for the first timer we have here, we can welcome Wayne to the Theology Throwdown.

Wayne, if you don't mind introducing yourself, your podcast, and give folks a little bit of background what your podcast seeks to do. All right.

I'm Wayne Floyd. I'm the host of the Faith Comes From Hearing podcast. My podcast is a combination of reading Puritan prayers from Valley of Vision. It's Spurgeon's morning and evening devotional. We've used a couple of different... read the Bible in a year plan, reading through in the Legacy Standard Bible, focusing on that one since it is the most recent translation.

And I've also been working through Bible study. I've been swapping back and forth between Bible studying, working verse by verse. I did through the end of Ephesians, and we've been going through John.

We're going through the Gospel of John now. But also doing... I took a break from that for a while. And we read through Thomas Watson's The Godly Man's Picture. So did that as well, reading from the Puritan.

So that's what it is. And it's just the purpose. A big purpose of it is I've run across people. My wife is one of these. Due to issues she has, as much as she loves to read, sometimes she can't sit down and focus to read the Bible, but she loves to take it in.

So it's been a help when she could listen to it. So that was kind of what motivated me to start being able to do that. And it's become kind of a key resource for my home church, for the Vail Valley Baptist Church in Vail, Arizona.

It's become part of that and pushed out by our church itself to try to support and provide for the families there, to get their families involved as a group to sit down and listen and be exposed, both their children as well as the adults, to the Scripture and the Puritans.

—Yeah, and I actually enjoyed the fact of what you're doing, and that you joined us because, you know, as you know, you know Squirrel Chatter. He read through the LSB in a year, and that was hard for him to do that with travel and things.

But my habit is, first thing in the morning, I listen to the Bible. I go through a different reading plan each year. I listen to the whole Bible in a year, listening and reading first thing in the morning.

And then later in the day, usually in the evening, I will read and study and go through. I usually go to a different study Bible a year, and I read the study notes and all that. But with Squirrel, I was able to also listen through the Bible with that podcast.

And now you fill that hole, so I appreciate that. It is good. It's for folks who want to just hear the Bible read. And you have a morning and evening, but you put it into one episode. So folks that listen, they can listen to the morning, stop it, and then listen in the evening and get two.

Same podcast episode each day with a morning and evening session. So check that out. Spencer, half of your podcast is here. I'll let you introduce yourself. And when your beautiful bride is done taking care of the kids, she'll probably join us.

So dinner time is there in that household. I certainly hope so. But yeah, happy to be here.

This is an exciting topic. But I am Spencer. We, well, I, along with my, I'll say beautiful wife, because it was already mentioned, someone had a beautiful wife. So I don't want to undersell my wife.

No, we all think all of our wives are beautiful. Mine's more beautiful than yours, I'll admit.

But my wife is more beautiful. Mine's more beautiful.

It's good. We found a disagreement because I'm certain that mine is. I don't have a wife. I'm proud of you, Melissa. That's good. Yeah. So, yeah, I, along with my wife, though, we host a religion-less Christianity podcast.

We kind of do two different podcasts in one. Monday through Friday, we do five-minute daily devotionals. Just verse by verse through the Bible, just giving our thoughts on what it means to us, what we take away from it.

We're not pastors, theologians. We're just Christians reading the Bible. And that's kind of the way our devotionals come across. And then on Saturday, me and Nikki take a look at the news of the week from our Christian perspective and try to figure out how we can digest this increasingly secular and religion-less world around us, trying to keep our eyes fixed on Christ.

That's the goal. So we do those six days a week. And now that we're here, I used to do a Bible study at the jail. You're saying, where's here?

Because folks that may not listen to your podcast may not know. You just moved. And we did just move.

We're in Albuquerque now. So why that's important is in our previous location, I did a Bible study on Monday nights at the local jail so I could never make theology throwdowns, though I wanted to. And now we're free to do that.

So I'm not going to promise I'll be here every Monday, but we will do our best. We're just glad they let you out of jail. Yeah, you know, it was really beneficial. I got that jailhouse religion, hoping it carries over.

And so for folks to know, you move around a lot because you serve our country in military, and we do thank you for your service. Yep.

Thank you very much. I appreciate that. It's been a rocky road these last few years, but we're holding on.

Yeah. Stephen Dew, you actually have two podcasts. So introduce them.

Well, actually, as of today, I only have one podcast. So yeah. But looking at starting up another one with the elders of our church, we talked about that yesterday. So maybe replacing the one. But the one that we just dissolved was the Christian Foundry podcast.

Me and several guys from our church had a podcast together. But as of today, that's no longer. But I do host the Doctrine Matters podcast, and we talk about all things. Sometimes I feel like I should change the name to Box of Chocolates podcast or something, because you really never know what you're going to get with mine.

For example, I did an episode on marriage and then followed that up with some commentary about the Nashville shooting and where was God. And then I've got one in the tank here about the gospel and essentially thinking that people in your area or location know the gospel, but many of them likely don't.

As I was evangelizing this weekend, it struck me again how many people just really don't understand the gospel, and it's truly heartbreaking. So really just taking a look at the scriptures and life and looking at things that are happening in our culture through a biblical lens and just helping people understand more about God and true biblical doctrine and anything else we can get into.

All right. Next on the list is Melissa Lex.

Oh, thank you, Mr. RepReport.

And I should say Melissa is one of the admins at Christian Podcast Community, so we'll give that title to our newest admin. Newest, yes.

And it's going great, by the way. My podcast is Thoroughly Equipped. It's a podcast for women. We look at women's ministry as a whole, and then more specifically the Bible studies within it. We basically take a Beth Moore study, which I haven't done yet, but I will, take Bible study and just kind of go through scripture, and I critique it, basically.

Right now I'm doing the If Gathering. I've been doing it for a whole season, and it looks like it might go more into my third season, or I'm just going to extend my second season really long. But we just opened up the fourth part where we're looking at the analytical tools that the If ministry brings in, and the last one we looked at was psychology.

I looked at Dr. Kurt Thompson, who's a psychiatrist, and he talks about the soul, and I compare his book to scripture and what he teaches. Now I'm going to be getting into social justice in this next one, so that's going to be interesting and a lot of information.

And so for some of the guys, you may not know what the If Gathering is, but the ladies in your church probably do. This is a huge thing, and I did not know anything about it before Melissa started doing the research.

So if you don't know, I would encourage you to go to Thoroughly Equipped and go back to the beginning where she started that and go through all of that. Last but not least, the other admin for the Christian podcast community is Eve Franklin.

Actually, I'm not last. You're last. Oh, well.

I'm Eve Franklin, and I co-host the podcast Are You Just Watching?, which we take usually secular movies and apply the Christian worldview to them. Our last episode was actually on Jesus Revolution, which is sort of a Christian movie.

Anyway, it was an interesting discussion because my co-host and I actually disagreed quite a bit as we covered that movie, and some of that might actually bleed over into tonight's discussion.

So it will be very interesting. So see, Eve's job is to correct me and keep me honest as I am the other admin and the founder of the Christian podcast community. I have the most podcasts, I think, because I have five.

Not all of them are in right now. This is one of the five. I have a podcast called So You Want to Be a Podcaster for any who want to learn about podcasting. And then I have my main one is the Andrew Rapaport's Rap Report.

Now, there was a daily, and I haven't been doing that one. I know it was two minutes a day, five days a week, but that actually took more time. It takes a lot more work to do two minutes and be that concise on an issue, but you can go back and binge those.

There's over 500 episodes answering a lot of apologetical questions, and a lot of times what I started to do is put all of what I said, the transcript, right in the show notes so you can have it there.

But my Andrew Rapaport Rap Report is a one hour, roughly, podcast. We deal with a lot of different... Main focus is dealing with biblical interpretations and applications to everything that we have in Christian living and life.

So the other one that I do is a live show, Apologetics Live, and you can go to. You could join that any Thursday night, eight o 'clock Eastern time. We usually go about two hours. We usually have a topic or a guest, and then you can ask any question.

I say on that show, I can answer any question you have about God and the Bible, because I don't know is a perfectly good answer. But we do get some good... The last show I did was a debate on whether the Trinity is a biblical concept with, I think it was five or six black Hebrew Israelites.

So that was quite interesting. You'll see what some of them believe, and I'll just say that it was a logical soup, logical fallacy soup on display. There's so many things wrong. But those are the podcasts I have.

What Revival Is and Why It Must Include Repentance

And on this one, we discuss theology. So let's talk about revival. Some of you have already discussed this on your shows. You've discussed revival, specifically this Asbury revival. And for folks who may not have known, maybe you haven't been following what goes on in Christian news, but at Asbury University, they had a day that they had a revival that occurred where they had chapels, it happens in many Christian universities, and this time no one went home.

And they stayed, and they just kept playing some music, and people were praying. And then what ended up happening was people were coming from all over the country to come to Asbury to be part of this revival.

And then the school had shut that down. And so we wanted to discuss what a revival is, and does this fit? There's been lots of discussion with this. There's been a lot of support. There's been a lot of criticism.

And so I don't know where the others here are going to land on this. But, and I should have said this before we started recording, especially for Wayne's sake, but if you guys have questions, like if you want to speak, there is a way that you could raise your hand.

All you have to do is, I think it's click on the gestures, and there's a raising hand and that way we know. Or you could physically do it, and I'll see you. But I want to start with kind of to define a revival.

And Steve, I think you did this on your podcast a bit. So if I'm going to ask you to start us off, when we talk about a revival, what is a revival?

Well, I think for many, you have to understand that a revival is more of a spiritual reawakening of sorts. And one of the biggest things that needs to happen in a revival is a confession of sin, not only individual sin, but corporate sin.

And I think there needs to be not only a confession, but a repentance of sin. And to have a true revival, the gospel needs to be preached. Christ crucified needs to be preached and proclaimed. And I just think from that alone, in a true revival, the Holy Spirit moves, sin is confessed, and it is done in different ways, I guess.

But I think confession and repentance have to be there. And of course, there's a lot more we can say that it isn't, in my opinion, as we relate it to the Asbury revival. But just in a short sentence, I know that everybody else has some thoughts, but a spiritual reawakening that must include the gospel and must include confession of sin and repentance, turning from that sin and following Christ.

Okay, so anyone want to add to that definition? I know, Spencer, you talked about this on your show. Anything you want to add to that?

Yeah, absolutely. And I will just mention beforehand, my most certainly beautiful wife has joined us now. So Nikki is in the house. So if you maybe want to give your thoughts first on it, or if you want me to go, why don't you go?

I was just, yeah, I'm in agreement with Steve there, right? Yes. Yeah, the word needs to be preached. I was just thinking how people are just drawn to anything different or new. People aren't traveling to hear the word of God.

They're traveling to have an experience. So I think the revival, like he said, the gospel, the word of God is what, it's the power of God unto salvation. That's just my main thing. We're just skeptical if it's not about the word of God.

So I got a definition of... So first off, I will say you guys are certainly underselling this Asbury thing. I don't know if you saw the Gospel Coalition. They proclaimed it to be the Asbury awakening.

So how dare you undersell what's happened there? But this is from Crosswalk, and they mentioned that a revival...

Some folks may not pick up on your sense of humor and your sarcasm there, but... I think that was tongue firmly planted into cheek. Yes, yes, yes.

I don't know what the difference between a revival and an awakening is other than the Gospel Coalition's editorial board. But it says a revival is when a church comes back to life and when the church becomes what it was always meant to be.

So that may not be an accurate definition, but that's the one I saw. And this was my biggest problem the whole time with this. And we'll probably get into this more. These are people at a Christian university actively seeking God, above and beyond what most people would do.

They're in church confessing their sins. They're already, you would seem to think, revived. What are they being revived to? I mean, again, the faith could not be genuine, but they're actively seeking God.

They weren't far from him, you would assume. So it seemed bizarre for the revival in that sense to take place there. Not to mention all the other stuff with Asbury we make it into.

Yeah, well, we'll get into Asbury specifically. But Aaron, your thoughts?

So you're right. The word revival doesn't show up really in the... I think you said that earlier. The word revival doesn't really show up in the scriptures. However, David, a number of psalmists use the word quite frequently.

And I'm going to kind of repeat a little bit what's already been said, but do it right from the scriptures. David, he begs God to revive him. He does it a lot. But listen to how he says it. Revive me according to your word.

Revive me in your ways. Revive me through your righteousness. Revive... He says, again, according to your word, according to your ordinances, according to your word again, Psalm 119. So it's this call for God to revive him, right?

To actually just give life is really what it is. That's the basic breakdown of that word, what it means. Not that David was asking to be saved again or anything like that. But to give him new strength, give him new life, give him new purpose, give him new focus in his relationship with the Lord.

And it always is tied back to God's word, God's law, God's ordinances, his righteousness. And so I think this is going to be a really important sticking point later on, because if we see a quote-unquote revival going on that's running contrary to God's word, contrary to his righteousness and his ordinances, then it's completely appropriate for us to step back and say, that's not revival.

Yeah, I would agree. And I'll say this, I'm going to promote... And I think Rebecca on One Little Candle, which is another podcast, or she's not here, I think she mentioned this book on her podcast when dealing with this.

And it's a book called The Calvary Road by Roy Hennison. And this is, when I think of revival, this is the book, it's only like 100 pages. It's a very quick read. I encourage you guys to get it. It's, I mean, the one I got is, you know, saying 40 years later.

So they added a whole chapter after 40 years of this book being out. So the book was originally done in 1950. But it's interesting because the first chapter in this book, and this is something I, as we talk about revival, that really he sets the thing of the first step of revival is brokenness.

Brokenness. The second step is then being filled with the Spirit. He goes into saying you can't have a revival when people are all about themselves. You have to be completely broken and empty of yourself and then filled with the Spirit.

And so one of the things I see with his definition is a revival is not going to happen where we're filled with self, where we're doing things for self. Revival is where we're empty of self and it's all about Christ.

So that'd be a little bit of my definition. Wayne, what are your thoughts?

Yeah, well, I just, I wanted to throw out something that kind of supported Stephen and everybody. Just when I started thinking about it, I dug into the biblical examples of revival. And of course, the kind of the default one is Acts 2, you know, Pentecost.

But it's very, very clear. Peter is preaching to them the Word of God. And then they, you know, they ask, what should we do? And he says, repent, and each of you be baptized. So it goes to that point.

And then they're filled with the Holy Spirit. Then there's revival. You don't see them standing in the square, you know, back and forth and moaning on and whatever. It's their preach the Word of God. And I'm not trying to insult.

It's just, you know, they were driven by Peter's preaching. You see the same thing with Cornelius. Later, still Peter. In that case, it's his families and family and friends. But again, he's preaching.

And you see it in Nineveh, of all places, Jonah, who just didn't want to do it. But at the same time, they repented. He came in, he preached, they repented. And the whole city. And I guess the, if I remember right, it's like 100 ,000 some people there repented.

And there was revival there. Didn't last long, but there was revival there. I mean, you even see it in Samaria, a woman at the well. And that whole village of Sychar, revival. But it's Jesus preaching the Word of God that did it.

So it seems to be constantly driven, like Stephen was talking about. It's the preaching of the gospel. It's the preaching of the Word of God. And that's where I struggled with the Asbury thing, because supposedly there was a message at the beginning, and supposedly somewhere down the road, somebody came in and preached a little more.

But my understanding from people that were there, that either the gospel really wasn't preached, or it was preached so lackadaisically and with no real unction, that it was hard to tie that to. And I think one of the separations we have to make, because I've watched too many people jump to the point of going, but people still could have been saved.

It's like, yeah, exactly. You know, a broken clock is right twice a day. Yes, somebody could have been saved out of that. But to depend on that as true revival, it just didn't seem to fit what the Bible shows.

And I want to get into, we'll get into Asbury itself in a few minutes, because I really first want to lay the groundwork of what a revival is. Because, I mean, I'll just say to what Wayne said, I mean, I knew someone that got saved at a Black Sabbath concert, because they saw a cross upside down and it so offended her, she left the concert and thought about what her brother was sharing the gospel with her and repented.

So does that mean we should encourage people to go to Black Sabbath concerts? No. But, you know, it sounds like right now there's agreement. When we talk about a revival, there's certain elements we want to have, right?

Preaching. It's going to be based off the preaching of God's word. The gospel is there, right? Garrett, you have some more you want to add to the definition?

Yeah, I think it's important to define, too, under what circumstances a revival would happen. I was listening to a pastor years ago at a conference, and he said, everybody's talking about revival. And it was definitely a topic that was on the tips of the tongues of everybody at this conference.

And he said, what I want you guys to understand is that revival only comes to dead and dying organisms. And I think nationwide, we can see the church is at a place where we desperately need revival. But I do think it's important to evaluate each revival in light of what the condition is of that place going into the revival.

Yeah, I always remember my first pastor used to say, revival always starts with one. In other words, people would be praying for revival. And I remember we had a prayer meeting, and someone was praying for revival.

And he ended up saying, don't pray for revival for others to do. If you want revival, start in your own heart, be broken before God, and let God do the work in your heart that others see. And that's how revival—no one—and this is now going to get into one of the questions that I have is, I was going to say no one plans revival, but I want to ask it as a question.

Can we plan a revival? I just gave away my answer. So what do you guys think? Is a revival something that human beings can plan? We could put it on the agenda. And the reason I'm asking this is in light of Asbury, Asbury has a history, this time a year, of having revivals.

You go back in their history, every four to eight years, it seems, they would have an Asbury revival. Steve, you brought this out in your podcast, if I remember correctly, but every couple of years, they would have this revival breakout.

And after Asbury, we saw other Christian universities saying that they had revivals breaking out. And one of the reasons I'm asking this is because we also know that the school decided, okay, the revival's over, they shut it down.

So my question, I don't know which of you would want to answer this first, and you may all answer the same way I did, I don't know. But can revivals be planned by humans?

Stephen? I would love to go first because I don't know who else is from the South. Is there anybody in the South here?

Well, when you were on my podcast, my Rap Report podcast host, we established, you're not from the South, you're from the deep South. Deep South, that's right.

I'm from the deep South, born and raised in Mississippi, now living in Arkansas. So I grew up in the Baptist Church, and there was a spring revival, summer revival, and maybe even a winter revival at times.

And they would plan these things out like clockwork. It was just happening year after year, season after season, it seemed like. And all these preachers would come in, and I never saw true revival take place as a result of that.

So the short answer, in my opinion, is no, we can't plan revival, but we must pray for revival. I believe the Puritans and the Reformers, I believe that when they wanted to see revival, they prayed to God for it, not tried to manufacture it on their own.

So my answer as living in the South for so many years is no, you can't plan it. Okay, Spencer?

Yeah, we aren't from the deep South, but we did come from a very charismatic background. And I mean, it's the same thing there. We just got a flyer on our Facebook for the monthly revival meeting, that every month it's a revival.

And that was one of the things that struck us about Asbury when we started looking into it. I think there's been eight to 10 revivals that have lasted multiple days, if not weeks, in the last hundred and some years.

They always fall in February or early March, which is super weird. So that does lend you to be a little bit leery, I think. You should be. And then maybe we can get into their faith, because I don't know a lot about the Wesleyan holiness type faith, but I know that they expect sort of a, I don't know, like a second sort of filling or perfection of the Spirit.

And I don't know if that was tied into this somehow, where this sort of outpouring of the Spirit has something to do with their sort of revival culture that's been bred there. I'm not sure.

Aaron, your thoughts? Well, what Spencer just said, or alluded to there, I think was really important, because the theology that the person has in other areas of their church, you know, ecclesiology, but also eschatology, impacts this a lot.

I would agree with what Stephen said, that no, you can plan to speak or do something that would speak God's truth into a situation and hoping that people come to Christ and are converted because of it and repent of their sins.

You can definitely plan the event, but you can't decide on this day, our nation is going to be swept with it. But to what Spencer said, it's really actually very interesting. And this might be where some of us hit a little bit of disagreement.

Stephen said, you know, it's good to pray for revival. And yeah, I get it. Like, you know, to pray for conversions and to pray for, you know, people in mass to come to Christ or to repent of their sins, obviously, like, who would say that's a bad thing?

But it's interesting to note that a lot of these guys early on, you know, around the time of the Great Awakening and things like that, we're talking about John Owen and Jonathan Edwards, Matthew Henry, Charles Finney, these guys, George Whitefield, they all had something very interesting in common.

They were eschatologically post-millennial. And these are the guys who are urging believers to pray for revival, and the ones who are more prone to interpret certain events as revivals or as awakenings.

And part of that was because of their eschatology, what they believed, you know, needed to happen on the earth and things like that. So from my perspective, no, you can't plan it. And to be honest, I don't consider myself a pessimist.

I'm an optimistic realist. I'm optimistic because I know God. I'm realistic because I know man. Realistically speaking, I don't expect there to be a revival anytime soon before God predicts that it's going to happen, and that's going to happen during what I believe is likely around the tribulation time.

So again, my eschatology even is impacting that to a degree. That's not to say that's not going to happen, but I just—I don't expect it. And I praise God for it, but I don't expect it. That's really an interesting view.

I didn't think of it that way.

Garrett, what are your thoughts? I wanted to go one step further and say, not only do I not think we can plan it, I think it's really dangerous to declare a revival without some window of time to view its fruits.

The other thing is I think it's really dangerous to declare a local revival. And Asbury was certainly localized. We had people traveling to, hopefully, this work that was local. And it's kind of like planting a fruit tree in your backyard and going, look at the huge harvest I have as the things are sapling.

We really need to wait and see. Eve talked a little bit about the Jesus Revolution movie, and right now we're at a point where we can start to see what the fruit was over a couple of decades of the Jesus Revolution.

We can say, okay, this may have been the last great revival in the nation, and that may be argued by some people, but we're at a really safe place to view what the fruit was. So I would say not only is it impossible to declare a revival prior to that thing, I think you really need some time.

And you mentioned that the school shut it down. Not only did they declare it essentially at the start, but then they said, and now it's over. And my thoughts are, man, if you've got a revival where thousands of hearts are being changed for eternity, why would you ever shut it down?

You've got a chapel that's open.

Keep it open. Yeah. You know, one of the things, a lot of people know the sermon, Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. And they know that that was preached in a monotone. What a lot of people don't know is that was not the only time that message was preached.