When Should We Baptize?

Father in heaven father, we come before you this morning. Just thankful for who you are. How you have set your affection upon us? How you have called us out from the world and how you have called us together to be a church.

Lord. We pray that as we look at what your word says about baptism and what it doesn't say about baptism father. We just pray that you bless our our time and our interaction that we might come to an understanding Of where the Bible ends and where wisdom comes in and Lord we pray for these things in Jesus name.

Amen. Well, good morning. We've had quite a bit of conversation as elders about Baptism and we thought it would be a good idea to pass along. Some of our interaction, you know, it gets a little heated.

Guys jumping across it's not that bad really but Well, I don't I don't want to spend too much time Kidding here. Let's just take a minute to talk about what is baptism and I'm sure most of you would be Familiar with that.

So I'm going to give a brief definition and that would be this it is full immersion below the water. It is an outward sign of an inward change an Outward sign of an inward change. There's really nothing more to it than that.

So with that said, let's go ahead and start this quiz and I thought this kind of quiz would allow for more interaction. So if you have questions along the way, I would encourage you to ask them. And if I don't see your hand Someone in the eye will hand you a signal flare and you can use that.

Now just kind of wave it around a little bit if I don't see you right away. Number one true or false baptism follows a professional faith. True. I mean that should be true, right? If you haven't made a professional faith, I have no idea why we would baptize you.

Baptism Follows a Profession of Faith

Let's look at Acts 2 and for the most part. I think this is the only place we're gonna go this morning. I have a couple of other References, but I can just read those acts 2 verses 36 to 38. And this is as you recall, you know, Peter gets up on the day of Pentecost gives this great sermon and then We come to the conclusion in verse 36 of Acts 2 He really preaches the gospel and he says then let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain That God has made him Jesus both Lord and Christ this Jesus whom you crucified verse 37 this is their response.

Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart and Said to Peter and the rest of the Apostles Brothers, what shall we do? How do we respond to this good news of the gospel and Peter said to them Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ.

For the forgiveness of your sins and you will receive this the gift of the Holy Spirit so there needs to be a profession of Christ as Lord and Savior before you get baptized and we'll develop that a little bit more as we go on.

But I want to keep moving number two True or false and by the way, there will be a score check at the end of this number two True or false when it comes to baptizing children. The parents should have some input.

Parental Input in Baptizing Children

True. Absolutely. Who has more responsibility for children then? Oh, I hear I see a hand. I didn't you didn't have to wave around. Okay. What's that. Well, I said that they should have some input. I mean certainly.

Well, let me just finish what I have here. And then we'll get back to your question Number or I said, yes, you know, no one has more responsibility for raising a child than the mother and father, right?

Proverbs 22 6 train up a child in the way he should go even when he is old. He will not depart from it. Ephesians 6 for fathers did not provoke your children to anger. But bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord so Ultimately the parents have a lot of responsibility a lot of input because they're the ones who are primarily teaching the kids and so They should be the ones who ultimately are the ones who say wait a second.

You know what something has changed with my child and you know that this this is a good change. But to get back to your your point. We have a profession of faith from the child if this is what I hear you saying a profession of faith from the child the I guess we'll call it testimony of the parents and therefore the child should be Baptized.

Well, I think that's an excellent point, right if a child needs a Co-center if they need somebody to affirm their profession of faith then. You know, how how valid is that. How much can a parent really tell what's going on inside a child's heart?

I mean, can they fool you? Absolutely Steven excellent point so Steven is saying that a parent could then test the maturity of the child by asking them a number of questions about. Yet, you know, I somehow autumn came to my mind, you know.

She's not quite three and she has this habit of just kind of adding little. Her her ours are very soft at this point. They sound more like W's. So I was just trying to imagine how she would answer that question.

I don't know why. Because it would be very cute but yeah, there's certainly there needs to be an Evaluation. I think it would be helpful to have the parents evaluate the maturity of the child and really the reliability of their profession of faith.

I Mean, I I certainly think let's put it this way. Younger person comes to the elders and says I'd like to be baptized. What are the elders going to do then? We're just gonna dunk them. No. You were saying was.

Well, I think before we quiz the child, what are we gonna do? Ask the parents and if the parents say are you kidding me? You know that kid's life is a wreck, you know now if they say that kid's room is a wreck well that you know.

But but if they just start, you know, never in a million years when I say that child is a Christian. Well, okay, then, you know, I would say Wisdom would say that if the parents say no way is that child a Christian?

Well, we're gonna take the parents testimony over the child's testimony until they're out on their own and you know can present themselves the case for themselves. Other thoughts on that. Yes, go ahead Bob.

Well, I mean think about Bob says that they would that they did not Baptize this child who had Jewish parents until his life was such that the parents had to concede that a genuine change had taken place and You know ultimately if the parents are unbelievers, that's actually Isn't it a greater evidence that maybe the child's profession is genuine.

Because everything in their life is don't be a believer. Don't be a believer. Don't be a believer and they say well I'm a believer. Now that isn't a surefire thing. They could just be now. This is kind of odd-sounding.

It could just be rebellion right well, mom and dad are Jewish, so I want to be a Christian because Kids like to rebel but it it is something that you would want to take into account when you're trying to figure out whether that person actually might be a Christian or not because Typically children want to do what at least younger children want to do what?

Please their children. I guarantee I can take you know a four or five year old child in my home and I could basically you know feed that child the answers and Get them, you know ready to you know play Bible quiz with you and and get dunked and and that's not really what you want you don't want the Child to just be coached or to be coerced into making a professional faith.

You want it to be again an Inward change that has actually taken place. Let's move on to number three and we can keep the questions coming true or false. The practice of baptizing believing children is centuries old well the trick the trick though isn't in the word children the trick is in Believing because they've been baptizing, you know, people have been baptizing children infants babies For more than a hundred years, but they haven't been baptizing Believing children for more than a hundred years old and it's relatively new according to Mark Dever and American in nature in other countries and In previous times what they would do is wait till the child did what?

Grew up moved out on their own. Then they would say okay. This is no longer a coercive type of situation. But this is a genuine reflection of what this person believes. Therefore we are going to baptize this person who's no longer a child no longer under the dominion and control.

I Like those kind of words Of their parents they're on their own their independence. These are their own thoughts their own feelings. This is what they actually believe. Number four. Yes Household, yep.

Mm-hmm. See you're about to make the case for infant baptism. So it Right, it would mean basically the slaves the servants everyone who's attached to that Household everybody who was occupied, but it wouldn't have to do with Babies or people who were unable to make their own decisions in that culture when you were old enough to do that.

You moved out on your own that's. You know, you didn't so they didn't have Xbox and they didn't keep kids in the house, you know until they were 26 or whatever the current average is that's just not what they did.

I Was back then but it was considerably shorter and so if the average person especially males live to be 40 or 45 or whatever you didn't, you know sit around and wait until they were. You know Approaching senior citizen status in those days before they moved out of that.

But good question but but I think I think ultimately, you know household is just it's a term that means the people under his Control so to be his wife his children, but there's no indication there of.

You know. If you're going to say his whole household or his entire household and you're gonna make that include every single sentient being in other words anyone who would eventually develop an Intellect and a will and everything else then you would have to say well, it's infant baptism, too.

But we don't believe that to be the case because this consistent testimony of Scripture is Repent and be baptized believe and be baptized not just someone in your household. Yeah, we'll start here and then we'll go back.

No, it's a it's an argument from silence. You know, basically it's a it's an assumption that. Maybe there might have been younger children there, but we don't know anything like that. Yes a million. Yeah.

Yeah, they all believed and were baptized yeah, go ahead. We don't. Well, it would be about 13 ish. That's where the whole bar mitzvah Tradition comes from that's when you would be considered a man. What.

Which is true, but if you think about it again, let's let's just think about what it means. If it if we're gonna say he's a man at 13. Well, what do we expect from men? Provide for themselves. Right, and so that's something they I don't think that exactly transfers directly over the culture.

It would be something where you know, if you said look, I have a child who's 13. He's a believer. Etc. Etc. We'd be willing to talk to him or her. But I don't think there's you know, what what is the age of accountability, you know, the Bible is at 8 is.

At 7 is at 13. There isn't one. But I I think it's important from this standpoint Guido which is. You want to look at each individual and that's what the hardest thing is. You want to look at each individual and think you know in terms of maturity in terms of whole life testimony.

You know, what are the parents say all these kind of things, but you also have to think to yourself. Well, I I don't want to get too far ahead of some other things I want to say but We don't live in the same culture now as they did then there aren't the same time pressures.

Life isn't as hard as it was then, you know at 13 again back then if you if you had a business. You know your son would be already working with you and that kind of thing. And so it would be like you're like, okay enough of this Guido and son stuff.

You got to get off on your own do your own thing because I'm tired of carrying you, you know. Or you can do it on your own. You know, it's time for your younger brothers to help me out or what have you but you know being a man meant Leaving your mother and father and getting on with your own life.

So. And sorry if it sounds a little male-dominated, but that would be the culture back then so but but certainly we live in a culture now where you know, we We have we have young people who just basically are encouraged not to grow up so.

Yes, Bob. Oh, sorry up here. I don't. Yeah, I really don't think there is such a thing as an age of accountability. So, you know, what's the age of baptism? The age of baptism would be at a point where either the person is independent or when we're talking the elders are talking to them and we're confident enough that Their faith is their own that they're able to do the things that we're going to talk about a little bit further Down the road here and then we would say yes, this person is functioning as a believing adult.

You know that in other words that this is somebody capable of Functioning within the body and we'll we'll develop that a little bit more here. So just hold on to that thought and if I don't clarify it, then please come back to it.

Let's see Number four the credibility of the professional faith is something to consider when determining whether or not to baptize the person. Yes, I mean, I've been at places. I was just a few years ago I was at a church on a Sunday morning and as soon as people walked up.

They were just dunking them in the. I mean no interview or anything. It was just I. I'd never been to the church before but I thought that was pretty extraordinary. You're making a professional faith.

We're not even going to talk to you. You could be doing anything. I think it's good to talk to people Before you baptize them. Why would that be by the way? Why do you think that would be wise? Even though there's no scriptural Instruction there that says you must interview somebody before you baptize them.

Why would you want to do that? Go ahead? Okay, you'd want to know that they're a believer. Go ahead Carol. Yeah, you don't want to give them a false sense that you believe that they're a believer. Sure Charlie.

You Don't want potential future sinful behavior to shame the name of Christ. Excellent. Joni says do they have a right understanding of the gospel at all? Well, I think that's a good thing to find out.

John right, you you have to say something to somebody but. Right. Yes, you have to you have to what? Profess Jesus Christ as Lord and believe. Yes. Yeah, I mean just imagine, you know choose. Talking about you know, even the person who baptizes says, you know based on your professional faith I now baptize you, you know, or it's my privilege to baptize you or whatever.

So imagine that we don't talk to him beforehand and we get into the baptismal tank and you know. They give some rambling thing or whatever, but there's nothing about faith in Christ or anything else. Well, we can stand there we could ask them a bunch of questions.

But what if they get those all wrong and then we go, you know what? I can't baptize you get out of the tank. That that wouldn't be good, you know in any way shape or form. I've never heard that one. Yeah, yeah because we vet them, you know, we know what Lord willing what they're gonna say.

Okay. Okay, number five true or false the weight of Scripture seems to indicate that only about adults were baptized. I Think we've covered that but I think the answer is yes. There's not one example of a child or a dependent being baptized in the Bible.

In other words somebody who's dependent for their livelihood. You know other than wives. As. Somebody who is too young to make their own decisions. Let's look again at Acts 2 and Just consider some of the things that are said here.

Acts 2 verses 38 to 42. And Peter said to them repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children.

It's a pretty good indicator and for all who are far off. Everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself and with many other words He bore witness and continued to exhort them saying save yourselves from this crooked generation.

So those who received his word Were baptized they had to receive his word. Believe it were baptized and they were added that day about 3 ,000 souls and they devoted themselves To the Apostles teaching and to or and the fellowship to the breaking of bread and the prayers.

And you just ask yourself, okay. Could just anybody do that? Could anybody believe and then devote themselves the Apostles teaching and the fellowship and the breaking of bread and prayers in other words?

There there's an assumption there of some maturity. The level of which is debatable but I I certainly don't think that we could say that this is a Child is sure, you know a younger child. Listen, what kissed marker says he says repentance signifies that man's mind has changed completely.

We understand that. So that he consciously turns away from sin. Repentance causes a person to think and act in harmony with Jesus teachings. The result is that he breaks with unbelief and in faith accepts God's Word.

Peter continues and says be baptized every one of you. In the Greek the imperative Verb repent is in the plural Peter addresses all the people whose consciences drive them to repentance but the verb be baptized is in the singular to stress the individual nature of baptism.

A Christian should be baptized to be a follower of Jesus Christ for baptized. Baptism is the sign Indicating that a person belongs to the company of God's people. Repentance baptism and faith are theologically related.

When the believer who repents is baptized He makes a commitment of faith. He accepts Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior and knows that through Christ's blood his Sins are forgiven. So there needs to be a Stephen was saying earlier and I'm sure many of you would agree there needs to be Some content to their testimony some theological content.

They need to understand some of these things. Otherwise They don't understand the gospel and there's no Reason to think that they believe the gospel if you don't understand the gospel. Then you certainly cannot be expected to believe it.

I mean I can again I can get a young child to say they believe but what does that mean if I talk to them? About sin. They might have very wrong ideas about what that is. Questions or comments. Yes, Bob.

Prescriptive from. Well, I I do know, you know I seem to recollect that infant baptism didn't come into play until the you know, the third century the late 200s but. Yeah, I. Yeah, no, I Did I see a hand back there pretty?

Well, and and you know, so if the Bible is not explicit on about an age or this kind of thing, so It leaves two things one is there needs to be of As much as we can tell a valid profession of faith, but the other aspect of it is just wisdom, you know and so.

And we'll talk more about that. I don't I just don't want to get too far ahead of that because the next question. Well, not the next question but number seven we'll get to that let's go to number six first.

Baptism and Church Membership

Number six true or false. Baptism and church membership are not biblically related. Nor should they be. There really is no indication. That's false. There really is no indication of someone in the New Testament being baptized and not joining a body of believers and now I will admit the church membership was not as formal back then why you know because you didn't have maybe 12 15 20 churches within a city.

There weren't Presbyterians and Baptists and all these different denominations. Number seven. Sure false. There is no downside to baptizing someone prematurely and this gets back to the wisdom issue and what Bob was kind Of addressing there, you know.

Arguments from silence. So why not somebody makes a professional faith? Why not baptize them? Amelia yeah, I mean they're there in a nutshell. That's it. Right if there's been no inward change and you baptize them then.

What you've done is utterly meaningless. But is there a bigger downside than that and let me just give you this. Found this account online and this is going to sound very familiar. But actually this is kind of a mild case.

This woman says that was it age six. I was in she walked the aisle at age six. She says no, I was fooled. For years. I was fooled. I tried to read my Bible. I failed. I tried to pray at night. I fell asleep.

I tried to honor my parents. I turned my back on them. I was evil and still separated from my father God. I've come to understand that word separated a little more now. It's not something I climbed over when I prayed the prayer.

It's not something I rinsed off my skin when I got baptized two years later. And it's definitely not something I walked off mindlessly when I walked down the church aisle. The separation between her and God was Complete and there was nothing I she could do about it.

No matter how hard I tried and I did try for 13 years I tried until eventually I realized it was all a lie. My entire life had been a lie. I never loved God. I loved myself. I never wanted to praise his name for all eternity.

I just didn't want to go to hell. I didn't want to make him known. I wanted him to make me happy. But thankfully it doesn't end there. God changed my will. He saw me heading toward destruction and said you're mine.

It wasn't until this point that I truly saw God for the first time after experiencing his grace. I longed to please him to have. Thought I could have overcome that separation on my own is absurd. I cannot seek to change my own will whenever my will only seeks evil.

I didn't want what was good and I didn't want him fortunately. He wanted me. He did not want me for my amazing personality. He wanted me despite who I really am so that I would make much of who he truly is.

Christianity is not about the God of the universe about how the God of the universe can serve man it's about giving up everything you once knew to serve a king who sustains all you could ever desire and I say that's the kind of testimony.

I'd love to hear on a Sunday night. You just hear that you go. Amen. But what happens so often and this would happen at Grace Community Church and I'll get to you a second John is we would hear testimonies of people in their 20s and 30s who got baptized at a younger age in another church and Then lived a life of rebellion and sin and then finally God got a hold of them later on in life.

And they realized that their previous baptism their previous Confession of Christ was absolutely meaningless and void of any change. So Yeah, go ahead John. Amen. Agreed Charlie, we're hurting ourselves by baptizing people who aren't believers.

I'll decide that. You know that that's that's moving me off of where I where I really want to go. But I would say this about what you said I I do think it would be great if we could get you know The town of West Boylston to give us a pond in the center of town and go down there on a Sunday.

Yeah, you know and with the loudspeaker system and just line people up and baptize them. I think that'd be awesome. Right because that would be a testimony to the community and you know, they'd all go this is kind of weird.

You know, we prefer it in our own. You know little church baptismal or whatever. But I I don't. I Think the the the real import of baptism is just What we've said before that it's a symbol of an inward change the outward symbol of an inward change now.

It'd be great if we could get Unbelievers to come and watch and just think well, why would somebody do that, you know? That that would be better. I think I just I don't really know how you Do that. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean it was a much bigger deal then and I think that was part of what you're saying too because you were really associating yourself with what was seen as a heretical sect and You know someone to be shunned.

I mean you were setting yourself off from the synagogue it was a big deal you know today we just view it as more of A rite of passage, you know kind of thing which I think I have later on there. It's not that it's not a stepping stone of bigger and better things.

You know, it really is a serious identification. It says basically that I'm willing to lay down my life for the Lord Jesus Christ. And you know the question then is at what age can somebody really? Formulate that sort of idea.

And I'm gonna suggest that it takes a great amount of maturity to do that. Stephen yeah, and and I think that really is something a Reason why we don't want to do that. We don't want to Baptize somebody prematurely and I have some other comments about that.

Let's keep going. Number eight. Which of the following commands should a young person follow be warm and be filled. They do that all the time. Especially young men. That's not a problem. Examine yourself and see if you are in the faith.

See repent and be baptized. D a and C only. Eat B and C only. Obviously the answer is B and B and C only so They're to do these things so then the question the questions that follow after that can a child test him or herself examine his or herself and See if they're in the faith.

Are they that introspective and that's something it's a subjective call, but that is something that I think. You know the elders would would want to try to Suss out would try to figure out in talking to them.

Can they repent. Do they understand what it means to turn around to change their minds? Do they fully understand what it means to turn away from their? Sinful way of thinking and to follow Christ. I Was even thinking about the Great Commission and again, I'm gonna jump ahead of myself a little bit but Great Commission.

What does it say? Go and Make disciples. Baptizing them right, but I mean the key phrase is make disciples and so if the church is to be about making disciples then Believers people who get baptized ought to be disciples ought to be followers ought to be learners so we would see then that people who get baptized ought to be joining the church and they ought to be in the habit of making disciples and being discipled.

So again, you know just imagine a nine-year-old saying look I'm looking for somebody to disciple not to disciple me, but You know and and so there's a certain Maturity a certain seriousness with which we have to view this and determine whether or not a person can fulfill these things.

Let's right right and Joni says this is another reason why the profession is so important because you're supposed to be able to take what you know and Go forth and tell people about it, right? You're supposed to be able to share the gospel number nine.

Which of the following are potential benefits from. I guess I should have said from baptizing young people a obedience be not falling behind peers see having their sins washed away D having an event upon which to base an assurance of salvation and A is the correct answer.

It's it's a matter of obedience, right? But again, we don't want to baptize anybody who's not a believer. So it's not a matter of you know, I'm 12 and I haven't been baptized yet I'm in sin. It's a matter of I'm a believer and I need to get baptized.

Well, okay. Here's here's the objection that comes back, right? Well, aren't you? Forcing these young people to disobey God by not permitting them to be baptized. What do you say to that? Besides amen.

Imagine you're on the elder board. What do you say Charlie? Okay certain amount of faith in the elders, I mean this really is ultimately what it's a judgment call so It I have a couple points here. One is if you say well, you're forcing my child to be disobedient to God.

Well, let me ask you this if your child truly believes. You'll say they're 12 and they truly believe when they're 18 if they didn't get baptized at 12. Will they have stopped believing? So, you know, well, you're forcing my 12 year old to disobey maybe.

But here's the flip side of that too. Let's say you're we baptize your 12 year old and It's 16 year. 12 year old gets a driver's license and starts acting like a fool. You know and is out there doing whatever whatever sinful activity.

Let's say they even get arrested whatever. Do you really want us to go after them for church discipline because they've been baptized their church members and everything else. Would you like us to go after your 16 year old for a church?

Discipline, so I I just think there's a matter of it's just a matter of wisdom of waiting watching. Encouraging them and I have a bunch of notes here about what to do. But it's encouraging them to keep believing but also to be more involved in the church.

I need to keep moving if we're ever gonna get done here. Maybe we will maybe we won't. So, you know isn't a matter of disobedience what it ultimately is a judgment call, but I would say this too. Let's say the elders are wrong.

Who's going to be judged for that your child whom the elders wouldn't baptize or the elders? I'm gonna say it's the elders number ten. Which of the following are potential liabilities from baptizing young people?

And this is a trick question. I didn't really intend it to be a trick question. I just made a mistake. It's a and B false assurance. False sense of assurance and they are more likely to make false professions of faith because.

Younger people typically it gets worse as they get older, but they want to please their parents. And by the way C is not a good answer. You know again, I think parents in most cases can coerce a profession.

If they if they work at it, they can do it. They threaten enough they can do it. Yeah, yes. Yeah, like I said in a previous one, you know, they don't want to get left behind, you know. Well, Billy got baptized.

Johnny got baptized. You know, why can't I be baptized and are they further along the road than I am? Yeah. Who dude you haven't been baptized. Number 11. True or false someone who is to be baptized should be able to articulate the gospel again.

I just think that's just obvious if you can articulate the gospel. I have a real hard time. Understanding why somebody would want to baptize you. Because of it if we're to talk about what's gone on inside if you can't explain to me what's gone on inside.

Then there's no reason to put the sign of belief on you baptize you questions or thoughts about that. Okay, number 12 true or false someone who is to be baptized should be able to function as a member of a local church.

Baptism and Local Church Membership

True we and we think this is very key. You know, we said there's really no indication of you know. Kind of Lone Ranger believers. Believers who are not attached to a long local church. So what do believers?

Well, let's put it this way. What are members of a local church do? Serve. What else do they do? What was that? Encourage each other. Okay bear one another's burdens. Stephen admonish. Be examples unbelievers imagine a little Sally nine years old baptized, you know coming around and admonishing people, you know.

Admonishing pastor Bob. Well, I mean, it's it's kind of funny. But I mean, it's it's just you have to wrap your head around this and go. Okay, is this young person who I think might be a Christian. Are they really ready to function in the body of Christ?

And if not. Maybe the right answer is Wait, Amelia. Okay. You could be baptized even if you're not ready to admonish. Well, how about this though? What if someone older and I'll just use me because I am kind of old.

What if I sin against little Sally? Then what should she should she be able to do. Go to me in private say, you know what pastor Steve you're a bad man, which I am but If so, I I mean, I I think there there just needs to be more of a maturity.

I think what I think we're just you know some. Our American culture. We're just chomping at the bit to know that our child is in Christ. And what's the ultimate symbol of that? It's baptizing them right and We don't want to give the parents false assurance of faith either.

Yeah, and that's all that's true. You know. Maybe through the father or maybe you know admonishing other children, but I think it gets back to in a sense this issue of church discipline. From a different perspective.

Let's say your child is not the subject of it but it is to be part of the process of going out and Going after the lost sheep as it were and trying to get that person to repent and come back. That's a lot of weight to put on a little a little one or a younger one or an immature person and so again.

Our position is that someone should be able to do that. We think that baptism church membership really ought to go hand in hand and That we ought to see a maturity level that would permit somebody to function in that sort of a level.

Um. We just kind of wrap this up here. Yes, go ahead Johnny. Okay, which is a great question. What's the downside of waiting and like I said earlier if you wait, you know. And you're the only answer the only Biblical answer and the really the only wise answer is this you know, you're causing my child to sin by waiting maybe.

But what we're also allowing for is a maturity process you wouldn't take your Five-year-old and say go get a job or whatever, you know, and so. Because we all know that's ridiculous. But what we want to see in the same way in the church is not even talking about five-year-olds.